Is Love Enough? And Other Valentine’s Day Questions

Summary

Podcast Summary: Don’t Listen To Us with Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody

Episode: Is Love Enough? And Other Valentine’s Day Questions
Release Date: February 11, 2026
Hosts: Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody, Gideon Grody Patinkin
Guest Caller: Eve
Podcast by: Lemonada Media

---

Episode Overview

This special Valentine’s Day episode explores whether love alone is enough to sustain a relationship and dives deep into the many forms of love—both romantic and otherwise. With characteristic humor, candor, and intellectual curiosity, Mandy, Kathryn, and Gideon draw from their decades-long marriage and family dynamic to share intimate anecdotes, answer listener dilemmas, and debate the meaning and value of love in its many guises. Notably, the episode features a heartfelt live call with Eve, a young nurse from Philly, wrestling with the question of whether love is sufficient for a lasting partnership.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Reflecting on Valentine’s Day and Meaningful Holidays

• Valentine’s Day Cynicism and Sentimentality (04:20–06:08):

  • Kathryn acknowledges the commercial nature of the holiday but values reminders to appreciate loved ones. Refuses clichéd red roses.
  • Mandy pokes fun at domestic gestures (“I get water on Valentine’s Day”) and highlights the everyday acts of caring.
  • The trio humorously ranks holidays from most to least disliked—Kathryn and Gideon agree Halloween tops the “most hated” list, while birthdays and Valentine’s rate highest.

• If You Could Invent a Holiday (08:14–09:40):

  • Kathryn proposes an “Anti-AI, Pro Human Species” Day.
  • Mandy floats “Refugee Day” or “Immigrants Day,” celebrating the value immigrants bring.
  • Gideon desires a “Non Guilt Day”; Mandy recounts “Email Debt Forgiveness Day,” delighting Kathryn.

The Eight Greek Types of Love (13:15–23:44)

• Listener Letter From Cheryl (13:15–16:46):

  • Cheryl, single and content in her 30s, values the many non-romantic forms of love in her life, referencing Greek concepts.
  • Kathryn lauds Cheryl: “Bravo for you for being able to love yourself and recognize all the different kinds of love” (14:19).

• Quiz & Conversation on Greek Love Types (17:18–22:28):

  • The hosts attempt to define:
    • Eros (romantic/erotic love)
    • Philia (friendship)
    • Ludus (playful, flirtatious love)
    • Agape (selfless, universal love)
    • Pragma (enduring, committed love)
    • Philautia (self love)
    • Storge (familial love)
    • Mania (obsessive love)
  • Humorous misfires abound:
    • Gideon: “Philia—love of horses” (17:53)
    • Kathryn: “Ludus—love of material things” (18:22)
  • Mandy shares a touching story about “angels of agape” from his local bakery: “He hands them out to people … I’ve been giving people these angels of Agape” (19:24).
  • Discussion on which love they want/need more of:
    • Both Kathryn and Gideon admit they could use more self-love (22:48–23:44).
    • Kathryn: “You practice it by beating yourself up less” (23:52).

Live Caller Segment: Eve’s Question—Is Love Enough? (24:18–42:58)

• Meet Eve, the Nurse from Philly (24:18–27:12):

  • Eve’s work in pediatric ICUs; uses singing as therapy for children.
  • Eve serenades the group with a snippet of “Misty” by Ella Fitzgerald (26:48).

• Eve’s Dilemma (27:40–34:16):

  • Eve’s first serious relationship prompts fear that “love is not enough.” She sees friends and family stick out unhappy relationships just “for love” and questions the sufficiency of just loving each other.
  • Kathryn: “What love means to one person is different from you … it’s how all those pieces fit together to support the emotional feelings you have” (29:13).
  • Eve: “I am an open book, I dedicate my whole heart … I get very scared that is not going to be reciprocated or I am just a temporary thing” (30:09).
  • Mandy: Observes generational shifts—from “weathering the storm” to searching for perfect compatibility via dating apps (32:00–33:13).
  • Kathryn: Warns against both extremes—staying miserable for decades vs. expecting no conflict is “real love.” Emphasizes building a unique shared language with your partner (34:16–36:29).

• Perspectives on Lasting Love (36:29–41:26):

  • Gideon: Shares a formative childhood movie memory—“You’ll know” when it’s real love. Wishes for everyone to meet someone “you can’t explain what you feel.”
  • Mandy: Challenges the “when you know, you know” trope, advocating for the romance in growing love over time, even out of initial awkwardness or friction (38:43–39:33).
  • Kathryn: Notes the reality and positives of some arranged marriages—love and connection can develop (39:44).
  • On What Else Matters Beyond Love:
    • Gideon: “Connection.”
    • Kathryn: “Connection and history … nobody will ever know me the way my husband knows me” (40:20).
  • Kathryn advises Eve: “You’ll have your own sorrows. You don’t necessarily repeat the sorrows of your parents … you’ll have different skills to deal with them” (41:17).

Love and Modern Technology: Human vs. Robot Love (43:12–47:08)

• Would You Support Your Child Dating a Robot? (43:12–46:05):
  • Mandy: Poses an AI hypothetical—if you found connection and growth with a robot, why resist?
  • Gideon: Open-minded; “I’m happy for you. I want you to be happy” (44:13).
  • Kathryn: Strongly opposes robot romance: “They are imitating a human. They are not. They’re programmed” (44:44).
  • Mandy: Pushes back: “You are already in a committed, codependent, inescapable, arguably romantic relationship with your robot [your phone]” (45:13).
  • Kathryn concedes her own technological dependence but remains philosophically opposed: “We’re finished as a species because we didn’t ask any damn questions” (46:05).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kathryn (on self-love):
  “To love yourself is really a rare thing. So good for you, Cheryl.” (15:52)

• Mandy (on enduring connection):
  “Our actions are the ground we walk on. And to improve the ground, improve your actions and your behavior.” (10:51)

• Eve (listener caller, on vulnerability):
  “I get scared that I am going to give so much of myself and … that's not going to be reciprocated or I am just a temporary thing.” (30:09)

• Kathryn (on what sustains love):
  “It's how all those different pieces fit together to support the emotional feelings … can that love be strong enough to expand as you go through life and have different experiences and react differently to things?” (29:13)

• Mandy (on love at first sight):
  “To me, [‘when you know, you know’] is a very cinematic kind of storybook idea … but who that leaves out is all the relationships who, at their first meeting, maybe they were awkward or the worst part of themselves came through.” (38:43–39:33)

• Gideon (on non-human love):
  “I'm reserving my judgment for when the technology gets to that point and I have the opportunity to experience it.” (46:43)

• Kathryn (on technology’s impact):
  “We're done. We're finished as a species because we didn't ask any damn questions.” (46:05)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Valentine’s Day and Holiday Ranks – 04:20–09:40
• Letter from Cheryl & Types of Greek Love – 13:15–23:44
• Live Call with Eve (Nurse/Singer, Is Love Enough?) – 24:18–42:58
• Human Love vs. Robot Love – 43:12–47:08

---

Tone and Style

The episode is quintessentially warm, wise, and often irreverent—rife with family banter, generational contrasts, and rich with personal storytelling. Mandy, Kathryn, and Gideon vacillate between candor, playful teasing, deep empathy, and sharp social critique. The willingness to challenge and support one another models the very kind of enduring, evolving love they discuss.

---

Useful For

Anyone curious about the meaning of love beyond romance, the building blocks of strong relationships, and the challenges of loving in a rapidly changing, technology-driven world. The episode offers validation for those outside the couple-centric mainstream and thoughtful, practical wisdom for people navigating their own relationships.

---

Transcript

[Julia Louis Dreyfus]

Hiya, Julia Louis Dreyfus here from the Wiser Than Me podcast. Among other things. And I've got a bit of a hot take. Our relationship to our food can feel disconnected. We don't always know how or where our food is grown. And if we throw food scraps in the garbage, we don't think about where it's going. Or at least we try not to. One way that I get back a little of that connection is by using my mill food recycler. Sure, Mill has totally changed my home life in a lot of practical ways. It works automatically. You can fill it for weeks. It never ever smells. But this is also really important. When I use mill, I'm participating in a circular system. All the food I don't eat is helping to grow the food that I do. It makes me feel like I'm part of something bigger. And that feels really, really, really good. And it's all so ridiculously easy. I just drop my scraps in my mill and it transforms them into nutrient rich grounds overnight. I have mine sent to a small farm, but if I wanted to, I could use them in my garden or for my backyard chickens if I wanted backyard chickens. And I don't know, maybe I do now, maybe I don't. Anyway, maybe mill is transforming me too, just a little. If you want to feel more connected or you just want your kitchen to feel less gross, try. Try Mill's risk free trial and just live with it for a while. Go to mill.com wiser for an exclusive offer.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Lemonade. We often record these episodes in advance so we don't get to respond in real time to what's going on in our country. It is a hard and frightening time. We believe we all have to do whatever we can to help protect our immigrant family members, friends, colleagues and neighbors.

[Katherine Grody]

Today we want to offer just two ways to get involved. Connect with Indivisible, a grassroots organization that mobilizes local actions across the US their.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Website is indivisible.org another great organization is the National Immigrant justice center, whose mission is to establish and defend the legal rights rights of immigrants. You can go to immigrantjustice.org and click on the Ways to Help tab. We're all in this together and thank.

[Katherine Grody]

You, thank you, thank you. You know what?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I got a little bit.

[Katherine Grody]

Did you hear about this amazing thing that happened to somebody? They ended up having this terrible stroke and they were out completely. You know, a person's 30s or 40s, too high. Do you know what happened when they woke up? And I mean, they Woke up totally from this devastating thing. Nobody knew if this woman could talk again, but she woke up and heard somebody speaking with an Italian accent and didn't know who it was. It was her.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, foreign accent syndrome. Foreign accent syndrome. It's crazy.

[Katherine Grody]

No, it's crazy.

[Mandy Patinkin]

People. People get some sort of traumatic brain injury and they wake up and they are speaking in a foreign accent. Sometimes it's like totally made up. Sometimes it completely sounds Ital or French and they cannot get back to their regular voice. These are people who do not have any experience with that language, do not have any relationship to it. And it becomes incredibly debilitating because people around them in their life are like, why are you talking in a French accent? Or they say, oh, they're in a French accent. And they say, where are you from? And they say, new Jersey. Now, fascinatingly, when these people sing music.

[Katherine Grody]

Sing a song, they go back.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Often they are able to sing in their regular voice. And many have found that if they think of a sentence in their head and then they sing it in their head before they try to speak it, they're able to speak a sentence in the regular voice. But you can't live your life conversationally singing every sentence you speak.

[Katherine Grody]

In a sense, that's why kids that stutter, who can sing without stuttering. The brain is amazing, amazing, amazing.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hey guys. Valentine's Day is around the corner. How do you feel about that holiday?

[Katherine Grody]

I know this is all an invention of a business, you know, like Hallmark cars or something. I don't think it's bad to have a holiday that reminds you of the people that you love and people that you should love or people that you should be more loving to. I just always have a request. I do not want red friggin roses. The cliche of the world on Valentine's Day. Do you know that? Honey, you know that about me. I don't want that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Great. You're not gonna get great.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What do you like?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I don't send you red roses ever, do I? I just do everything for you. I get water on Valentine's Day.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Wow, he gets you water once a year.

[Katherine Grody]

Isn't that something?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That is a lie. Anybody romantic in the in earshot of this? Yeah, every day I'm getting her water, getting her coffee, making food for her, cleaning the dishes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think you spilled your own secret there.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, just. He does wash Valentine's Day.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Wash dishes like. I love it.

[Katherine Grody]

He loves it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's very special. I take care of my valentine on Valentine's Day.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Wait, you wash dishes like Your mother. All your dishes look like your mother.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, I wash dishes like my mother washed dishes. She loved it. She lived in the kitchen. I love to be washing dishes and not having to talk to our guests.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So you don't have any dishes in the shape of your mother?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, but some dishes remind me of my mother. Where are the blue china ones with the white. With the white and blue.

[Katherine Grody]

Honey, there was one. There was one.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Shoes to hang in the closet.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Why is it in your closet?

[Katherine Grody]

Cause I don't like the way it looks.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I've noticed that you guys tend to hate some holidays and you like some other.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Halloween. I told you why.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So I'm gonna list five holidays or special days and I want you to rank them from most hated to least hated. Ready?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

They are Valentine's Day, Halloween, your birthday, July 4th, and daylight savings.

[Katherine Grody]

Huh? Rank them in the least favorite from.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Most hated to least hated.

[Katherine Grody]

Okay. Most hated.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's kind of like a cognitive test because now I gotta remember the list. I feel like I've already failed.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Valentine's Day, Halloween, your birthday. July 4th, daylight saved.

[Katherine Grody]

Okay, well, Halloween is. I hate the most too. So that we're in common. The next one would probably be.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

My father says we don't hate. We may dislike something intensely, but we don't hate.

[Katherine Grody]

I'm trying to think. I don't hate my birthday. I like my birthday. It reminds me that I got to be born and I'm still here. I don't get daylight savings time. I know there's a huge controversy the world over, and I know that it has a lot to do with when we were an agricultural country, but I think we should be one thing or the other. It would make people less crazy. So rank Halloween I hate the most. July 4th would probably come next because I, you know. Bombs bursting in friggin air. Yay. Yay. And we're still doing more bombs in. Our structure of how we live is heinous. And I really don't like that. Except I'm very happy about watching Ken Burns American Revolution. I'm learning a lot that I didn't know about. Once again, what a great idea we are.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

He plays Ben Franklin in it.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, I know him.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Is he amazing?

[Katherine Grody]

He is amazing. Don't you feel like you're listening him? Listen.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh my God.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So it be Halloween.

[Mandy Patinkin]

July, Franklin.

[Katherine Grody]

Halloween, July 4th, Halloween, July 4th, Daylight Savings, Valentine's Day. All right, yeah, Valentine's Day and my birthday. But I don't fate My birthday?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Katherine Grody]

Sorry, honey.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What if you could invent a new holiday that was brand new to celebrate something for America? What would it be?

[Katherine Grody]

Celebrating the human species. And celebrating all the ways which AI will never, ever come close to being as idiosyncratic as an unusual success.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So what would that holiday be called?

[Katherine Grody]

The Anti AI Pro Human Species holiday.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, that's catchy.

[Katherine Grody]

I'd ask you to come up with a better term.

[Mandy Patinkin]

How about Refugee Day, where we celebrate.

[Katherine Grody]

Well, that's a great idea.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Immigrants Day, where we celebrate all the value that immigrants.

[Katherine Grody]

I think that's a great idea. I think that's great.

[Mandy Patinkin]

All right, let's do it.

[Katherine Grody]

All right, let's do it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Is there a holiday you would create? If you could create any holiday, I.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Would create Non Guilt Day.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, you know, there was guys from a podcast called Reply all which dealt with things on the Internet, and they created something that I believe is still celebrated to this day. It's called Email Debt Forgiveness Day.

[Katherine Grody]

Oh, my God.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And it's a day where you can respond to any tardy email that you've been feeling guilty about without any apology or that time has been forgotten. So they did create international holiday around a feeling of guilt and email that has helped a lot of people.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And my wish has been granted.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Great.

[Katherine Grody]

You know, that is just really true. That's why I try and write actual letters to people. I want to get their attention. I feel they might be better with a real letter than an email because I never even see the emails because they're so overwhelmed. I mean, I just found an email from somebody from a year ago, and.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I felt my favorite Jewish holidays are Rosh Hashanah because I loved the gatherings of our family and friends. I loved making the butterfly lamb marinated in 1 cup shoyu, 1 cup honey, tons of garlic, chopped up, stabbed and inserted in the lamb overnight, and a 7 minute broil on each side. I love Yom Kippur. I love the quiet and the. I mean, it's supposed to be a day of repentance where you throw away your troubles. I love that ritual to take bread and cast it upon the water. Throw away your troubles. I love Yom Kippur because I love the reflection and thinking about life and how you want to. As Uncle Mike would say, our actions are the ground we walk on. And to improve the ground, improve your actions and your behavior. And those are the two I really like the most. Chanukah is a little dicey now because I love potato latkes. They're a challenge to make. And once they're made or bought, they're incredibly fattening and unhealthy for you. It's a sin, as far as I'm concerned, to eat them without sour cream and applesauce.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, it's a good thing sour cream and applesauce are readily available.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah. You know, every year I tell myself I'm going to be one of those people who meal plans. And then, of course, life gets in the way. And that's why Marley Spoon is such a game changer. Marley Spoon gives you over 100 recipes to choose from each week. Yeah, you got that right. 100. I mean, we're talking comforting classics like chicken Milanese with cucumber arugula salad to fresh, balanced dishes like everything bagels, salmon with truffle chive potatoes, and green beans. All of these are made with really high quality ingredients, and there's something for every mood. One of my favorite, most recent meals was the chana masala with toasted naan. I adored that. I mean, it just felt like I was going to my favorite Indian restaurant, but instead, it was right out of my own kitchen. It was fantastically delicious. This new year, fast track your way to eating well with Marley spoon. Head to marley spoon.com offer don'tlisten for up to 25 free meals. That's right. Up to 25 free meals with Marley Spoon. That's marley spoon.com offer don'Tlisten for up to 25 free Meals. It's fantastic food.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I want to move on to our first listener question today. This comes from Cheryl and Mom. I'm wondering if you could read this for us.

[Katherine Grody]

Hi, Catherine. Hi, Mandy. Hi, Gideon. I love you guys. And I love love. I always have.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

She loves love.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I love love.

[Katherine Grody]

I love love.

[Mandy Patinkin]

There you go.

[Katherine Grody]

There you go.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's okay.

[Katherine Grody]

I always have. But here's the thing I get strange looks or comments about when it comes up. I'm in my 30s, and I've never been in a romantic relationship. And to be honest, I'm okay with that. I don't really crave one. I have so many other kinds of love around me. I have two amazing pets. I have a close circle of really good friends. I have a great brother. My parents are awesome. And fuck, yeah, I love myself, too. It was really liberating to learn that the Greeks have names for at least eight different types of love. I don't know what my question is, except to say romantic love isn't the only type of love. Thanks for the space to rant, Cheryl. Oh, my God, Cheryl, I love that observation. I think this country in particular is so over obsessed with only a singular romantic kind of love. And bravo for you for being able to love yourself and recognize all the different kinds of love and expression of that feeling. I just think it's fabulous and I'd love to know. I'm gonna look up the eight types of love that the Greeks and I bet maybe we have somebody that did that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes, we have them right here, actually.

[Katherine Grody]

Oh, my God.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But what about you, Deb? Before we get into that, do you think our culture focuses too much on romantic love?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I don't. I think that's the. I think it's necessary to procreate. I think it's a feel good thing. I think it helps you calm down and go to sleep.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Are you talking about sex?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes. That's how I'm defining romantic love. And I prefer my. The love I love the most is everything but that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Right.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And so I just love the companionship, knowing mom is in on the planet with me, in the room with me, on a walk with me, next to me where I can just touch her arm.

[Katherine Grody]

But that's a kind of romantic love too. It's a romantic love, right?

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's a partner love.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I love being with you. I love being with you when we go on adventures. I love being with my grandchildren, my. My. My sons, my. My son's ladies in their lives. I. I love being with my dog. I love looking at right now. There was a great snowstorm and everything's covered in white. I love that. That's a great feeling.

[Katherine Grody]

But you know what, what Cheryl says here, she gets strange comments if she says she's okay. I think there's so much emphasis that you read about. I'm longing for a romantic relationship with a person. And I think it's so refreshing and so individually thrilling that somebody goes, excuse me, is it okay that I don't feel that I love my parents, I love my brother, I love my pets, I love myself. To love yourself is really a rare thing. So good for you, Cheryl. And thank you for reminding me if.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You'Re looking for it, it doesn't happen. And so, you know, just love being alive.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Right. But that's also an assumption that everyone is always looking for. And I think something that's cool, that's present here in Cheryl's thing is she's not saying, I've been trying to find it everywhere and I'm exhausted and I'm like, enough with it already. And I'm focusing on other Things She's. She's kind of saying it's not really like a thing for me right now.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's not the best chocolate chip cookie.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And I don't know if Cheryl identifies as like, an asexual person, which are people who don't have those sexual feelings. That's different than being aromantic. Some people out there in the world don't feel that they have sexual desires or those feelings. That's not in their chemical neurological makeup. But they do like romance, right? Some people like romance, but not. So it's. There's everything under the sun, but it's really only a handful of things that get represented.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Over and over, the stories we tell and the things we see. So she mentioned that the Greeks have the eight words for love. And I wanted to do a little pop quiz. I'm gonna name the eight types of love the ancient Greeks identified. And I want you to tell me what kind of love it is. Okay? Say the first thing that pops into your mind. Okay. Eros. What kind of love is that?

[Katherine Grody]

Erotic love. Physical love.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Bow and arrow.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It will go. We'll go one, then the other. So, dad, this one up. Philia. What kind of love?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Love of horses.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Nice. What do you think, Philia?

[Katherine Grody]

Philia. Love of words. Great.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's friendship. Love.

[Katherine Grody]

Oh, I love that. Because friendship, that's the most important thing to me next to my family.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Is that the Greek word for friendship? Is that what it might be? Yeah. What they all mean.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay. What about ludus?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Who's this first? Who's this for?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom, first? Ludus. What is. What do you think that is?

[Katherine Grody]

Love of material things.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Dad, Ludus.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Love of profanity.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Great guesses. It's playful, flirtatious love.

[Katherine Grody]

Oh, my God. They were so friggin smart.

[Mandy Patinkin]

This is a really good one.

[Katherine Grody]

Look at all these.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Agape. Dad, what comes to mind?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Love of wine.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Agape.

[Katherine Grody]

Agape. Love of animals.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Agape is selfless love or love for everyone.

[Katherine Grody]

Wow. Like a pastor or a rabbi or somebody that is very selfless, like a good nun. Just love of humanity. Wow.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I actually, you know Philip, who runs the Hungarian pastry shop on 110th Street. Some of the artwork in there was done by this Greek artist. It was very close to the place. And he lived on an island and had a project trying to paint a million angels of agape. Angels of unconditional love. Selfless love.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

They're on the wall there.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No. He hands them out to people. And certain people who meet a lot of people in their life, he gives them Hundreds to give to folks. So I've been giving people these angels of Agape.

[Katherine Grody]

I love the angels. I have.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I meant to have one for you today, but I forgot. So I'm going to give you one later.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What about pragma?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Pragmatist.

[Katherine Grody]

Pragmatist. So love of being, love of getting things done? Or love of people that can help you do things?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Nice. It is enduring, committed love.

[Katherine Grody]

So you could have a combination?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Katherine Grody]

Start off with Eros and go to Philia and then go to Pragmatic.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So far I score zero. I have no love understanding for any of the Greek understandings of love.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think you've been close.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, close. I'm just picking words that sound like what I think they mean. I'm a love idiot.

[Mandy Patinkin]

In ancient Greece.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

In ancient Greece, yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What about.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I like Greece. I. I love. Try it. You'll like it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Tzatziki.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Tzatziki.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What about flach? Falau Chia.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, blowjob. Love.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom, what do you mean? Oh, God, Ma. Don't be anti blowjobs. We are pro sex. We are pro bodies on the show. We are pro blowjobs. What do you think of Bellagio? Cunningus.

[Katherine Grody]

I really analyze.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You name it.

[Katherine Grody]

Because I think it's any language and I don't like you think it blushes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Blowjobs are private.

[Katherine Grody]

I just find it an absolutely adolescent conversation. I didn't like it when I was an adolescent. I really hate it now.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What were we talking about? Oh yeah, Falauchi. It does sound like a blowjob. Something. It's love of. What do you think of dad?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How do you think of fallacio?

[Mandy Patinkin]

She's erasing you. Pepsi. What do you think of falachio?

[Katherine Grody]

Erasing you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom is erasing dad in real life with her imaginary human eraser.

[Katherine Grody]

Would you tell me what that soup.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes. Felauchea is love. I don't know how to say it. That doesn't sound like fellatio. Fila. Filachua. That's very Italian. It's love of self.

[Katherine Grody]

Well, that's fantastic.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So we could also.

[Katherine Grody]

Can I have a list of these? I'd like to put this on my.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, for sure. Okay, two more. Storage.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Storage or relative of the three storges.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Great. Mom, what kind of love do you think that is?

[Katherine Grody]

Storage. A love for nature.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Familial love.

[Katherine Grody]

Familial love is storage.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Storage.

[Katherine Grody]

Which is different than your friendship. Philia.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And then I bet you can guess this last one. Mania or mania.

[Katherine Grody]

Well, a love of being Manic. A love of extreme conditions. A love of mania. Mania. A love of being chaos.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

A love of chaos.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Obsessive love.

[Katherine Grody]

Oh, yeah. That's what most Americans think real love is when you're tortured, when you can't stop thinking of your love object.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Of these eight types of love, which one do you think you have the most of? Or which one do you feel you need more of?

[Katherine Grody]

Well, I. I think I could use more of self love, which is called. Which one is that?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Self love was Felicia.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, I think I knew. Yeah, I think I need more of that. I think.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hear that, dad?

[Katherine Grody]

The Philly. I couldn't live. I couldn't live without the friendships I have.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, you hear that, Andy?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm on it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I said I'm on it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You hear me, dad? What kind of. Which one of these do you think.

[Katherine Grody]

You.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Have the most of? Or which one do you feel you need more of? The romantic love? Friendship love. Playful flirtatious love. Selfless love. Enduring, committed love. Love of self, Familial love or obsessive love?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I need more love of self.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, me, too.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm a little lost on that one. I don't have enough self love.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Where will you find it?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And a book.

[Katherine Grody]

You practice it by beating yourself up less.

[Mandy Patinkin]

There you go.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, that's it. Yeah. Oh, great. Thanks.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Our work is done.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, our work is done.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So we are going to be joined by a live caller. Mom, dad, Put your headphones on.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Earbuds.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Sure. Earbuds ready.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom, dad, this is Eve. Hello, Eve.

[Eve (Caller)]

Hello.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Hi, Eve. Nice to see you.

[Eve (Caller)]

Hi. So nice to see you.

[Katherine Grody]

Nice to see you. You look so familiar to me, Eve. I do. Have we met?

[Eve (Caller)]

I wish we have. This is the first time that I know of.

[Katherine Grody]

Okay, great. Great.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hi, Eve. Thanks so much for calling in. Tell us a bit about yourself, please.

[Eve (Caller)]

Well, thank you for having me. I am 24 years old. I am from Philly, live in Philly. I'm a nurse.

[Katherine Grody]

Oh, how great. Yes.

[Eve (Caller)]

And I do a little bit of singing, too, which I know that Mandy does some singing, so.

[Katherine Grody]

Right.

[Eve (Caller)]

That's pretty cool.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What kind of nurse are you?

[Eve (Caller)]

I do pediatric ICU. So I float around to three different ICUs. I do. There's, like, the pediatric general ICU. Then I do the cardiac ICU for kids and the neonatal ICU.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What is that? Like, how. What state are the kids in? How do you calm them down? How do you work with the kids? How do you calm them down? Quiet them, make them not so frightened?

[Eve (Caller)]

I do sing to them a lot.

[Katherine Grody]

I.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What's. What is something you often sing to them? Can I hear a little.

[Eve (Caller)]

Oh, my gosh. I was not expecting this. I like to sing a lot of jazz standards, so. Like, Misty by, like, Ella Fitzgerald's version. Okay, just.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Just so you know, don't.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't talk around.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Encourage everyone to say no to my parents whenever they feel like it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, yeah, you can say no whenever you want. But I. But I say, don't listen to him. Listen to her. And. And you.

[Eve (Caller)]

The only reason why I am going to do this is because my mom would kill me if I didn't, so.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, that's. That's a good reason.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I do everything.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Eve (Caller)]

I'm gonna sing for, like, two seconds. Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay. That's all we can afford, too. Otherwise we have to pay for it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, we can go up six seconds.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think we can go up to three seconds.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Three seconds. Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But, dad, you can sing Winter if you know the song.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Go ahead.

[Eve (Caller)]

Okay. Look at me. I'm as happy as a kitten up a tree. It's hard to do without.

[Katherine Grody]

I just love the image of you singing that to kids. And I see you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I bet those kids get real calm.

[Katherine Grody]

Oh, my God.

[Eve (Caller)]

They have no idea what the song is.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It doesn't matter. They hear the sound of the music.

[Katherine Grody]

Do you work with the parents, too?

[Eve (Caller)]

I do. I do work with the parents. All of us nurses, we really take on the role of, like, these children become our own, and we love them all.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So, Eve, what's your question for us today? What do you want some, maybe useful, probably not so useful advice on.

[Eve (Caller)]

Well, I think this would be useful. So I. Just for, like, context, I am in my first ever real relationship. We've been together now for two and a half years, and I am a worrier. I do a lot of worrying about the future and about making sure that I have, like, a very happy and successful loving life. And I recently had this. This conversation with a few co workers, and we were discussing whether love is enough in a relationship and what keeps a relationship strong. Some people were saying, you know, at the end of the day, whatever happens, if the love is there and we love each other and, like, we're in it, that's that, and that's what will keep it. And I very strongly disagreed. And I was saying that I do not think love is enough. I've been hurt too many times by people that I know who do love me, and I loved them, too. But I think there's just needs to be more to A relationship. So I guess I'm asking you guys because you, you've been through life together, you've got such a history.

[Katherine Grody]

I think that's what you just said is the smartest thing. Because, you know, I don't even understand when people are saying love is enough. What love means to somebody, to one person is different from you. Some people have ex. Lots of interests in common, work in common, love of sports or nature. Some people have loving relationships and one hates being outdoors and one loves, you know, being in it, whatever. It's how all those different pieces fit together to support the emotional feelings that you feel you have. And then can that love be strong enough to expand as you go through life and have different experiences and react differently things? Do you have feel you have a strong enough fabric that can kind of stretch and expand? Because whoever you are at 24 and whoever your partner is, is hopefully not going to be the same person at 80.

[Eve (Caller)]

Yeah, that's really beautiful. I think I get scared that I am going to give so much of myself and like, I am very much an open book. I dedicate my whole heart to everything and I get very scared that that is not going to be reciprocated or I am just a temporary thing in the moment. And I know that's all just part of life, but it's just scary.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, you sound very alive to me. I want my son to enter into the.

[Katherine Grody]

This.

[Eve (Caller)]

Oh, thank you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Thanks for sharing all that. Eve, I'm curious. Why, why don't you think love is enough in a relationship?

[Eve (Caller)]

I. I think what really gets me is that I don't have a relationship that has been in my life and like, stood against time. Like, my parents are divorced and a lot of my family members are separated. And I've just watched many of my friends go through relationships where they are sticking through a lot of stuff that I don't think I would put up with. And I will say, like, I think it's time to call it quits. And they will say, but for the sake of love. And I understand it, but I just feel like there needs to be something more. I need more. I need more security.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, I totally hear that. I think something really interesting here for me is the standards of what we're willing to weather in a romantic, committed relationship, I think have really shifted generationally. And I think, you know, my parents generation, there was much more of an attitude a long time ago when you guys got married of like sticking it out and weathering the storm. Right. Like since then, divorce rates in this country have, like, skyrocketed. And I think a big part of that is kind of this, you know, for better or worse, this thing that we're sold, you know, through the consumer goods, through reality television, through dating apps, that, that we can find the perfect match, the perfect fit, the perfect puzzle piece that ticks all the boxes. And we shouldn't have to weather through the, you know, brutalities of intimacy if it's feeling too arduous, because with these tools, we can find our perfect mate, you know, and somebody who doesn't piss us off as much. And I think that makes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

With what tools?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Dating apps and the Internet and the thing. It's. It's this idea of, like, you want that perfect match, that perfect thing that doesn't hurt you or doesn't fulfill your every need. You can find it. If it wasn't on Hinge, it's on Bumble. If it's not on Bumble, it's on Tinder. If it's not on Tinder, it's on Facebook. Farmers Go. Or whatever. There's so many options.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So you're on Farmers Go, aren't you?

[Mandy Patinkin]

So I just made that one up. I just assumed there's a dating app called Farmers Go for Farmers. But you know what I mean. That, that we kind of have this story in the younger generations. Millennial. Gen Z, Gen Alpha. What are you Gen Z? I think so. Right?

[Eve (Caller)]

Yeah, Gen Z.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You know, that, that we have this idea that we can find it because there's these tools and therefore we deserve it. Does that resonate with you at all?

[Eve (Caller)]

Yes, 100%. I went through a lot of dating people that they truly seemed perfect for me on paper, and just something was not right or was not there.

[Katherine Grody]

But you know, Eve, that's one of the things that drives me. Absolutely. I mean, both extremes drive me crazy. The couples that have been together 50 years and they've done nothing for the last 40 but make each other and their family miserable, clearly, surely they should have made a move, and you wish for that. But what is equally disturbing to me is younger people that have this notion that love means no conflict, no disagreement, no pain, no arguing, no human. We are very complicated human beings, and we have lots of ways of expressing fear or insecurity or love. And to me, what drives me crazy is when you see these serials, marriage people, and it's especially in celebrity culture, oh, who has a big million dollar wedding and they're very happy and perfect for two years and then they get a big messy divorce and have another Five Million Dollar Wedding. And I find that all madness. And I'm curious about the partner that you're with because you did say, do you have these discussions? Are you able to talk about what you think a loving relationship encompasses? You know, for me at this point, my husband was much better at conflict and expressing anger and not having it be a scary thing because he grew up more comfortable with that. I didn't, you know, And I thought, well, if you yell, that's it, you know, it's over. And now I feel I've gotten better at yelling and it's improved our relationship because it's a human thing and it doesn't have to destroy you if you. It's much better if you're pissed off at something than holding it in and getting an ulcer or being covert, which I used to be an expert at, you know, and just pretending. Oh yeah, things are fine because I am so friggin mad at you. I'm not going to give you that intimacy, you know. So I think a full relationship depends on what, what language you and your partner form together that makes sense to you and it doesn't have to make sense to anybody else, you know, but if you guys speak that language of what you think are the boundaries or the limitlessness of what you can possibly be together, then that's fantastic.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Can I add a little piece to that? The other thing I just wanted to add in is something I feel very deeply. My mother, when I was. I had to be between 8 and 11 because I remember the apartment we lived, it was of black and white TV and we're watching some Mr. Smith Goes to Washington type movie. It wasn't that movie. But the two people were walking up some big steps into like a big government building and. And the woman says to the younger person, I think it was their kid, well, how will I know? And they were talking about love. How will I know? And the mother said, don't worry, you'll know. And something I loved and never forgotten is I always wish for people that they meet as many people as necessary, you know, till you find a meeting where you can't explain what you feel. That there's something you feel with this new person that you just have no words to articulate. And that what happens is called life. And if it's worth its salt, the shit will hit the fan. And when that shit hits the fan, that's when you remember what you couldn't define or put into words. And that's what keeps the plant growing.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Can I, Can I Lovingly challenge a notion in there. Yeah, I think I've heard you say this idea, and I love that you love that idea. And to me, it's like a very cinematic kind of storybook idea of love and romance that when you know, you'll know. It kind of relieves the seeker of love from the complexity of what the answers are. Just to say, don't worry about it. The spirit will move you and you'll know it's true. You don't have to check boxes. You don't have to look for specific qualities. You don't have to look for specific conversation. You'll just know it's a beautiful idea. But to me, it's. It doesn't. It doesn't resonate because that can happen with a lot of people. And that's great. But who that leaves out is all the relationships and all the people who, at their first meeting, maybe they were nervous at the first date or the first two dates, maybe they were awkward or the worst part of themselves came through. I think what to me is even, like, more romantic and amazing is when people meet each other and they have some sort of friendship or they have some sort of argument or there's friction.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Some sort of connection, but for some.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Reason, there's enough interest or exhaustion from other people or wanting just company that you tolerate this person who you don't feel that spark with. But the fact that human beings can grow a spark.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I agree.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Not by love at first sight or, you know, these fairy tale things, but by knowing the details, the complexity, the layers that we reveal over time. And I think that's just. I'm not saying that doesn't happen the way you see it. I just think it's one of a million ways.

[Katherine Grody]

I couldn't agree more. And, you know, I totally agree with you. There's also the stories that you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But it wasn't fairy tale. I just want to finish. I didn't think of it as a fairy tale. I just think of it as a possibility. But I also agree with you. Go ahead.

[Katherine Grody]

Well, it's just so interesting because in different cultures, Eve, you know, there's all these arranged marriages. Some of them are nightmares. But more often you hear people say, well, he was a nice person. My parents liked him, our families liked him. And then lo and behold, 20 years later, yeah, they are great companions or they're really grateful for that, you know, idea.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom and dad, if love isn't enough, what else do you need for a lasting relationship? If you can think of the top things that come to Mind?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I can answer that real easy. Connection. Connection.

[Eve (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah. Connection and history. You know, you build a history where nobody will ever know me the way my husband knows me, because we met when he was 25 and I was 31, and, oh, my God, we have been through pretty much everything together. You know, there is. I love our history. I love sharing that information. I love sharing the births of our children. I'm not going to have a kid with anybody else. You know, that profound relationship that experience and moment happened with him. And even if we hadn't made it to this point, that still would have been an unbelievably intimate connection. Anyway, Eve, I just think, you know, you're a thoughtful, beautiful, talented person, and just be. Just listen to your heart and not to your friends, and, you know, you'll have your own sorrows. You don't necessarily repeat the sorrows of your parents or whoever else you've seen. Believe me, you'll make your own, but you'll have different skills to deal with them. Do you know?

[Eve (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Eve, before we say goodbye, can you just tell us about the hearts on your sweatshirt? I love what you wear.

[Eve (Caller)]

Thank you. This, I actually got made down the shore. I was at Ocean City, New Jersey.

[Katherine Grody]

It's all right.

[Eve (Caller)]

It's a T and E for my girlfriend, Teresa, and me. Eve.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Beautiful.

[Eve (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Katherine Grody]

Is that it? There's a Greek word for love that is friendship, which is not friendship.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Or is it your girlfriend, your friend, or your girlfriend, your romantic partner?

[Eve (Caller)]

My romantic partner, but she's also my best friend.

[Katherine Grody]

Well, there you go. Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We were just learning about the eight different Greek words for the eight different kinds of love, and mom was excited to remember.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Did you know that her girlfriend was her romantic partner as opposed to her friend?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I didn't know. I just saw that mom was making possibly an assumption that it was her girlfriend rather than her romantic partner.

[Eve (Caller)]

I have this conversation with my mom a lot, too, because it's very common for girls to call their best friends girlfriends. And she's like, well, now that you have a girlfriend, sometimes it's so confusing talking to people about it. I was like, I hear you. It's okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, you'll figure it out.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, exactly. There's so many choices that we're getting used to.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think you're a saint, because I think nurses and people that work with children are saints. So anybody who gets to be with you are some of the luckiest people on earth.

[Mandy Patinkin]

St. Eve.

[Katherine Grody]

Thank you, Eve.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thank you, Eve.

[Eve (Caller)]

Thank you both so much. I. I can't I don't even have the words, actually. This has been amazing.

[Katherine Grody]

It's wonderful to meet you and you keep singing to those babies.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Absolutely, yes, I will.

[Katherine Grody]

Okay, thank you. Take care.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Have a great day. Thank you. That brings us to our, our final bit today, our hang time. And I want to ask you about robot love. What do you think about people dating or loving a robot in the future? Is it wrong if robot technology gets to a point where the robots are very human? Like, especially if the robot challenges us, makes us laugh, inspires us, listens to us, exhibits understanding, makes us become a better person in so many ways. Why would you be opposed? What is the attachment you have to just human love as the real kind of love isn't that limited? If I, your son, who you love and want to be happy, am finding meaning connection with a robot in law inspiration with a humanoid robot AI model 25Z1000. What is the argument against that?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

None. I'm happy for you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Thank you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I want you to be happy.

[Katherine Grody]

I don't. Okay. No, I'm sorry. Look, I know I may be the last person standing on this because we're already falling over the AI robotics cliff. I fall over using that stupid friggin smartphone. We've. As far as I'm concerned right now, all of this technology, I'd like every satellite that allows this technology to work to be dead.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Back to my question.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, how would I feel about. Okay, no, first of all, they're imitating a human. They are not. They're programmed.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't you want them to be happy?

[Katherine Grody]

Not with a robot. No, I don't.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I could be miserable with a person. This is theoretical. I could be miserable with a person and happy with a robot. You say please be miserable with that person.

[Katherine Grody]

I would say be miserable with that person. Figure it out or find another person. Because a robot is a machine and it's programmed by some fucking algorithm.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom, you are already in a committed, codependent, inescapable, arguably romantic relationship with your robot. It is a part of your body as an extension of your personhood. You walk around with your phone all the day. You don't think you're in a relationship with that thing?

[Katherine Grody]

No, I'm in a relationship with my phone via talking to my real friends. I mean, I feel two minds. One is, I feel it's really important to fight what is human and what is manufactured human. And the other, I feel just surrender already. Yes, I have that phone. I can be gotten it every moment. I'm addicted to it. I try not to be. I'm doing things like, you know, plugging it in where I can't reach it. I turn it off periodically. We're done. We're finished as a species because we didn't ask any damn questions.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Just to set the record straight, Dad's. For my happiness, your misery.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And regarding the other half of the question, in the beginning part, would you want to be with a, you know, a fully formed robot that, you know, was nice to touch and everything else? It felt good and warm.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Not, it felt good and warm. It's. Well, it's. Imagining robot technology gets to human intelligence or beyond, Then what's wrong with it?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Only the intelligence or the presentation. I mean, does the robot mean the tunnel or does it feel.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm not talking about the appeal, just being that it's like a sex bot. I'm talking about indistinguishable from human.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm reserving my judgment for when the technology gets to that point and I have the opportunity to experience it. And then ask me the question.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay, that's great.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That'll be insane.

[Katherine Grody]

There's already. That's already happening. There's already happening. You people love these chatbots. They feel they're real. They're my best friend, they're giving. There's no kind of conflict. That's human. No. Nobody walks out of a room on a robot and they run down the road just to get you back.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, don't bring your own to me. See how that all shakes. Thank you all so much for joining us.

[Katherine Grody]

And really, don't listen. Jesus.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We want to hear from you. More questions, stories, advice for us.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Beautiful. Sign off.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Interesting things you want to share or talk about. Please send an email to askmandiancatherinemail.com or check out our socials for an easy way to send us a voice note. And don't forget to subscribe or follow us on YouTube, on Apple or other spaces where you watch or listen to your podcast.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Beautifully delivered.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's always great having you talking behind you in these things. And please leave us a review.

[Katherine Grody]

I don't read anybody reads all your comments and reviews.

[Mandy Patinkin]

If you like the show, leave us a review. That helps.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We do not want to know about that. Don't believe anything.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Thank you so much for being here. And tune in. Tuning in. Thanks for tuning in.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You tune in on a podcast.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, I didn't. I've done my best on this last part.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay, thank you.

[Katherine Grody]

Foreign.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Don't Listen to Us is a Lemonada Media original hosted by Mandy Patinkin Katherine Grody and Gideon Grody Patinkin Created by Katrina Onstad, Debbie Pacheco and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Executive producers are Kathryn Grody, Gideon Grody Patinkin, Mandy Patinkin, Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco, Jessica Cordova Kramer, and Stephanie Whittles Wax. Our engineer is Ryan Derringer of Welterweight Sound. Video and audio production by Mark Whiteway of Bellows Media. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Media Premium yet, now's the perfect time. You can hear don't listen to us completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like behind the scenes conversations, questions so weird they didn't make it on air, Becky the Dog shenanigans, and more. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple podcasts. Head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app, or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out.