New Relationship Anxiety: Bodily Functions & Being Human

Summary

Podcast Summary

Don’t Listen to Us with Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody

Episode: New Relationship Anxiety: Bodily Functions & Being Human
Date: July 15, 2026
Podcast by Lemonada Media

---

Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode, Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody, and their son Gideon blend humor, candid reflection, and heartwarming wisdom as they address listener questions about new relationship anxieties—most notably the embarrassment around bodily functions—and managing big life moments when primary cheerleaders (especially parents) are gone. The conversation winds through personal stories, advice for embracing human realities, and the power of ritual and memory. The episode exemplifies the family’s signature mix of playful banter, honest vulnerability, and practical, often unconventional counsel.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family Dynamics and Conversational Habits

• The episode opens with a playful “argument” about what constitutes a conversation versus interrupting, exposing long-honed family dynamics.
  • “You speak in an endless stream…you say things that need a response, and you don’t give a pause, so I have to interrupt.” – Gideon (01:25)
  • “Well, see, I feel the same about him...” – Kathryn
• They turn the discussion to the value of true back-and-forth, using political debates as a humorous model for conversational style (01:46).

2. On Aging, Creativity, and Kathryn’s Play

• Kathryn discusses finishing her acclaimed one-woman play, which explores staying optimistic and vital in older age, challenging societal cliches around aging.
  • “It’s a rebuttal to the cliches of how this culture treats people with white hair or age in general...encouragement to always be unfinished.” – Kathryn (07:09)
• She reflects on the sense of community, support, and being seen that theater provides.
• Kathryn shares the importance of being “unfinished” and the concept of “repair,” a 15th-century word she resurrected for the play, meaning recovery from hopelessness (08:07).

3. Listener Question: Bodily Functions & New Relationships

[12:24 – 21:29]

• David’s Question: How do new couples navigate bathroom embarrassment—when does one stop pretending to be an “ethereal being who doesn’t digest food”?
  • “It’s gotten to the point where I’m half in love and half constipated.” – David’s email (13:40)
• Kathryn admits she only recently became comfortable passing gas near Mandy and encourages honesty and humor with partners to ease the tension.
  • “I think the thing to do is tell your new romantic partner how you feel…let me just tell you that and get over it.” – Kathryn (17:20)
• Mandy adds practical suggestions like playing music during bathroom time to mask sounds (20:26), and Gideon points out men’s generally greater ease around such matters (19:35).
• Societal Gender Pressures: Kathryn and Mandy discuss how bodily shame is worse for women, rooted in cultural expectations of femininity.
  • “I do think women have a harder time and have been taught to not be comfortable with anything that can be interpreted as not feminine or attractive.” – Kathryn (19:45)
• Memorable story: A tough "Hell's Angel" crew member from Mandy’s TV days swore by baby wipes for comfort and cleanliness—a reminder that looks can be deceiving (15:32).
  • “Treat it like the holy vessel that it is…treat all our holes with tenderness and care.” – Mandy (18:40)

4. Listener Voice Note: Grief, Achievement, and Parental Absence

[22:04 – 42:16]

• Tynan's Question: How do you manage being your own best cheerleader when your best cheerleader—your parent—is gone?
  • Tynan, an opera singer, celebrates a big career milestone but acutely feels the absence of her late mother's exuberant support.
  • Kathryn empathizes deeply, recalling her own impulse to call her mother after milestones, years after her mother’s passing (24:26).
  • “All that support she gave you is there...you can talk to her...it’s just a way of dealing with the sorrow of that physical loss.” – Kathryn (25:22)
• Rituals for Connection:
  • Kathryn and Mandy share the rituals they use to invoke the presence of departed loved ones before going on stage.
    • “I see them hanging from a beam…I see them before I go on stage.” – Kathryn (27:57)
    • Mandy: A daily litany of names and invoking the memory of loved ones in the darkness of the audience. (28:44)
    • “As long as there’s one person on earth who remembers you, it isn’t over.” – Mandy, quoting Oscar Hammerstein (29:31)
• Stage Business:
  • Tynan explains what it means to be a “swing” in a theater production: learning multiple ensemble parts to fill in as needed (33:04), and the anxiety and thrill that come with such responsibility (33:46).
• On Becoming Your Own Cheerleader:
  • Mandy and Gideon discuss the importance of learning “actions” (intentions) as performers—a craft that becomes crucial when loved ones aren’t on hand to support you in person (35:23).
    • “My main cheer: Get out there and tell them to have fun...tell my mother to have fun wherever she is.” – Mandy (37:07)
• Lasting Connections & Letting Oneself Feel:
  • Kathryn and Mandy reinforce the bittersweet fortune of missing a deeply loving parent, and the necessity to let oneself feel the grief as a sign of connection.
  • “If we’re lucky, if we were given the gift of having a parent that we miss...” – Kathryn (38:26)
• Advice from Tynan: For listeners whose parents are still alive, ask the questions you might not think to ask, be present, and cherish the relationship as adults (41:35).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s gotten to the point where I’m half in love and half constipated.” — David’s email, read by Kathryn (13:40)
• “Treat all of our holes with great tenderness and care.” — Mandy (18:40)
• “It’s a rebuttal to the cliches…encouragement to always be unfinished.” — Kathryn (07:09)
• “As long as there’s one person on earth who remembers you, it isn’t over.” — Mandy quoting Oscar Hammerstein (29:31)
• “She is inside of you…and that’s a ritual where you actually have her be there right on your shoulders.” — Kathryn to Tynan (37:24)
• “There is nothing sadder than a person being here and leaving without anybody missing them or caring and no connection.” — Kathryn (38:26)
• “God damn it. Right? God damn it. Oh, my gosh.” — Mandy and Kathryn on bittersweet feelings of missing parents (40:08)
• “Ask more questions. Be with them as adults.” — Tynan’s advice to Gideon and listeners (41:35)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:08 — Family’s conversational habits and playful arguing
• 05:02-07:56 — Kathryn’s reflections on her recent play and its themes
• 12:24-21:29 — Listener question about new relationship bodily function anxiety
• 22:04-42:16 — Live guest Tynan Davis: grief, achievement, and carrying on when parents are gone
• 29:31 — Mandy’s invocation of Oscar Hammerstein on memory and grief
• 33:03 — Explanation of being a swing in theater
• 35:23-37:24 — On learning to be your own cheerleader; inner rituals for confidence
• 38:26-40:08 — Meditation on being lucky to have someone worth missing and letting oneself grieve

---

Tone & Takeaways

• Warm, irreverent, and down-to-earth: The hosts hold nothing sacred, but their compassion and wisdom shine through.
• Key advice for listeners:
  • Embrace honest communication about our shared, very human realities in life and love.
  • Rituals can help us feel connected to lost loved ones and bolster our confidence when facing life’s big moments.
  • Don’t let embarrassment sever connections; humor and vulnerability are vital.
  • Cherish and document relationships while you have them—ask the questions you might someday wish you had.

---

This episode is a moving, frequently hilarious conversation about what it means to be human—awkward, messy, grief-filled, but always unfinished and capable of growth.

Transcript

[Tynan Davis]

Lemonade.

[Care Scout Sponsor]

This episode is brought to you by Care Scout. You know, when an aging parent needs help, the mental load on the family is just massive. How do you find home care? Is it time for assisted living? It's so hard to know what to do, and generic online advice doesn't cut it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It really doesn't.

[Care Scout Sponsor]

Care Scout is a comprehensive aging care platform that helps families find, fund, and plan for quality care. They have a network of rigorously vetted providers and professional senior living advisors to help. They bring total clarity back to your family's journey.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Let Care Scout do the heavy lifting. Head to carescout.com don'tlisten to find a clear path forward.

[Kathryn Grody]

It's very funny because I had had a discussion with my husband in the car yesterday about what I think is a conversation versus what he thinks is a conversation.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What was that about?

[Kathryn Grody]

That was about, you know, what is interrupting and what is an actual conversation where you go back and forth and not just, I give a monologue and then you give a monologue back. But we.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, but why did it come up? Do you remember?

[Kathryn Grody]

Because you always think I'm interrupting you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, because you speak in an endless stream, okay? And. And if. And you say things that are very interesting or. Or need a response, and you don't give a pause, so I have to interrupt, so otherwise I can't.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, see, I feel the same about him. But anyway, that note is well taken, and it's really good.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You both do that.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. Well. Well, you gotta just say, okay. Because if somebody says something and you want to. Have you ever watched the presidential debate? Excuse me? He mentioned my name. I need to. I need to, you know, respond to that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Wait, are you saying. Are you trying to model your conversation style after presidential debates?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, I'm just bringing that up as an example of. I'm not the only one. Nor is your mother.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Who does that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Who does that anyway?

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's a great point.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We, you know, welcome. Were you interrupting me just now, Gideon?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I might have been. I guess it's hereditary. Dad, your beard is.

[Kathryn Grody]

It's a thing.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's really big.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

This is about five months. I'm doing it for a movie. If the movie's made, it'll be 10 months worth of growth when we start filming.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Right.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And that's what the director wanted. Although it may end up being cut, you know, shorter once we see it, but he wanted the option.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Does it feel like a friend?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, I don't feel it. Except when the side hair. This part, which I'm trying Now to like pay us, pull behind my ear because that'll like curl over and tickle my ears. And then sometimes it tickles me down here and. And I feel something's crawling up me. Like, I worry about tick because we live in the country. Ticks. But now it's getting long enough around the ears where pretty much I can get it behind my ear. Like pay us. Or like women do with their hair.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, that's exciting.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It is very exciting. I'm, I'm enjoying it. It seems to be a conversation piece.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So we should, we should tell people what show this is. Welcome to don't listen to us. The podcast that you shouldn't listen to and don't listen to.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, so good.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm Gideon.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm Catherine.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm Gideon.

[Kathryn Grody]

No, you're not. You're Mandy.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And I have some.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We have in me 13 chromosomes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes, I think I have some, Mandy.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, it goes like that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, you didn't.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I don't know if we quite have the IQ to figure this out.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Really. No.

[Kathryn Grody]

You know, it's going down. It's going down. Did you read that? Did you see that amazing article in New York magazine, of all things, the stupiding of the American mind?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, well, I didn't need to read an article to know that.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, yeah, that's true.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So you're judging it based on our family?

[Kathryn Grody]

In myself, I. I feel it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We haven't, we haven't talked in a little while.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, I'm just curious. How do you feel that I have gone down IQ wise?

[Kathryn Grody]

I actually don't feel you have. Hun. I'm really talking about myself and the

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

entire world and the cut down IQ ways.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes, I have.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You haven't.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, that's.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, because you feel you don't read as much as you used to.

[Kathryn Grody]

I don't read as much as I used to and it's driving me crazy. And I've got to start practicing today. Not just sleeping with books, but actually read the ones that are surrounding me.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I just walk with them. It feels sufficient.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom, we haven't talked on the podcast since you finished your run of your show.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, it was so incredible.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It was pretty great.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It was beyond great. Catherine, don't you know you're sad because you're not doing it.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, I really am.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But you'll get. It will come around theaters. I believe it has an incredible life in theaters like Malvern, Pennsylvania, the Goodman Theater in Chicago, theaters all over the country that have intimate spaces and deserve this extraordinary piece that you wrote. And I'm telling you, I just wish anybody who's listening to this. I pray anybody who's listening to this gets an opportunity to see it. I think it's the absolute greatest contribution mom has made. Don't interrupt me now.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm sorry.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't interrupt me.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Let me ask you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Wait a minute. You're both interrupting me. The greatest contribution your mother has made since birthing Isaac and Gideon.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's very sweet.

[Kathryn Grody]

It's very nice, honey, but you are my mate, so who's gonna really believe that, Mom?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Let me ask you. You got emotional. What's that feeling?

[Kathryn Grody]

I, you know, I have a tremendous amount of trouble taking care of myself or do what I need to do when I'm with people I love, like my family. So being in Malvern and absolutely knowing nobody and just doing this show six or seven times a week gave me a structure where I was forced to just take care of myself. And I just loved doing this piece. The people were so responsive. I've never done a piece where they talk back to me or they, you know, they'll say, ooh, ah, yeah, oh, I know. Or something. And there were 80 people that stayed for the talk backs because young and old people, they just wanted to talk about how to be human and how to be in a community and how to be seen, you know?

[Mandy Patinkin]

And can you share what the play was about for people who don't know yet?

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, it's got kind of a long title. It was called the Unexpected, a radical, rollicking rumination on the optimism of staying alive. And I kept adjusting it. And.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Why? Because you were losing your own optimism?

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, yeah, I mean, it's just a rebuttal to the cliches of how this culture treats people with white hair or age in general, how it makes young people afraid of becoming older. You know, it doesn't encourage you at all. And it's kind of a rebuttal about that cliche and encouragement to always be unfinished. That was sort of my, I thought, biggest plea is never to, you know, whether you're doing the same job you've done for 50 years or not. You just never finished becoming and having new experiences and change your mind about points of view and being open to new people and ideas, and also mainly to practice repair, which is the opposite of despair and its recovery from hopelessness. And.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And you taught us a 15th century word.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes, that's right. It's from. Yeah, it's from the 1500s, and I got it from Morgan Jeunesse. That's right. That Was what Morgan Janess, a fabulous, brilliant dramaturg and human, wanted to bring back.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Did you have a favorite part of the entire experience or a favorite moment? Oh, I know. A moment I loved was I was coming down to see the show and I had an extra ticket and it was sold out because you sold out the whole run because you're.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It did 180%.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So I had an extra ticket and I was gonna return it to the box office. And I asked my friends who live in Philly, I said, do you know anybody in Philly who might enjoy a ticket to the show? And they both lit up.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

They said, Doris.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And Doris was a 93 year old woman they just met by stumbling into her artist studio and seeing her paintings. And we called her up and invited her to your show. She was very confused with this invitation. My friend Jenna said, Jen and Maggie said, this is our friend Gideon. His mom's doing a show, you know, he'll come to your condo, pick you up, drive you out to the theater, drive you back home anyway.

[Kathryn Grody]

And her children had a vet you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes. I talked to, I think her daughter in law to let her know I was not some scammer kidnapping her. And I drove an hour to pick her up. Drove an hour to the theater.

[Kathryn Grody]

Unbelievable.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Had an amazing time with her. 93 years old, drove an hour home. And now we're great buds.

[Kathryn Grody]

And also I have an incredible son that would go to that effort to do that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I did that in part because that's what you. That's the kind of thing you would do. Pick up the.

[Kathryn Grody]

You know, dad, I don't think you've ever seen a show of mine. Four times, honey. And what I was very interested in. I used to never want to know when dad was there or you were there. I was worried I'd be too nervous and wanting to do well and do badly. And I just loved knowing when you both were there this time.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, we loved the show. Yeah, we're your biggest fans. Well, tied with a lot of people.

[Kathryn Grody]

Thank you. Yeah, it was great. I'm very happy.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Did you hear what Timmy was so shocked. Mom's director, Timmy near was just shocked

[Mandy Patinkin]

about Timmy near, who did an amazing job.

[Kathryn Grody]

My director, Timothy near, was so nervous because she was sure she'd get notes

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

from dad because she did, like 30 years ago.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. She never recovered.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And you knew better this time he didn't have any.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I never said a word. I just kept coming and applauding and loving it and weeping and weeping.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes, sir.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Weeping.

[Care Scout Sponsor]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, that's what I do. I'm a professional weeper.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, really.

[Care Scout Sponsor]

This episode is brought to you by Care Scout. You know, when an aging parent needs help, the mental load on the family is just massive. How do you find home care? How do you know when it's time for assisted living? There's a million questions and generic online advice doesn't cut it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It really doesn't. You end up staring at a million moving parts, guessing, and that's just not good enough when it comes to the people you love.

[Care Scout Sponsor]

Care Scout is a comprehensive aging care platform that helps families find, fund and plan for quality care. Their Care Scout quality network actually vets home care and senior living providers against strict person centered care standards. So you know you're getting trusted care.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Plus they connect you with senior living advisors who are actually local. These are people who live in your area and know the landscape firsthand so you aren't just guessing. They bring total clarity back to your family's journey.

[Care Scout Sponsor]

Exactly. Let Care Scout do the heavy lifting so you can focus on just being

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

a family or Simply head to carescout.com don'tlisten to find a clear path forward.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We're going to go on to our first listener question today. This is from David, and I've got his email here. And mom, if you could read David's email for us, that would be great.

[Kathryn Grody]

Dear Catherine and Mandy, first let me say I adore you both. So nice. Your honesty, your humor, and the way you somehow make life's weirdest moments feel like a group hug. So naturally, when I found myself in an intensely awkward new relationship predicament, I thought, these are the people I need to ask about bodily functions and romance. Here's the thing. I have a friend who cannot, under any circumstance use the bathroom when staying over at her boyfriend's place. Like she'd rather spontaneously combust than risk him hearing a single flush or, heaven forbid, a sound effect. At first I laughed at her, and then I started seeing someone new. And suddenly I'm the one holding in my dignity and my digestive system until I get home. It's gotten to the point where I'm half in love and half constipated. So my question is, how do new couples navigate the bathroom issue without killing the romance or their internal organs? When do you stop pretending you're an ethereal being who doesn't, you know, digest food? Please help. My heart is open. My colon is not lovingly mortified. David, that's great. Oh my God.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I fear that we're gonna get a Future email that David has died from implosion.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, isn't it? I just find it. I mean, it's just so true.

[Care Scout Sponsor]

Why?

[Kathryn Grody]

The question to me, David, is we have a friend. Like, yes, we do. But why. Why are we so mortified by our human, you know, behaviors that are totally normal? I mean, we are.

[Care Scout Sponsor]

I am.

[Kathryn Grody]

I don't think I pass gas in front of my husband until just recently because I just felt it was so.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't tell me that you didn't really.

[Kathryn Grody]

I didn't really, honey. No, that was. I always pretend if it actually happens at somebody else. Now we have grandchildren. We're making them not be embarrassed about.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, they pointed out, gramps, that was you.

[Kathryn Grody]

Ye, that's right. And then you deny it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Wait, but you recently crossed this threshold.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, in private with dad, I mean, I think the thing to do is tell your new romantic partner how you feel. And your friend. I mean, I mean, you know, whatever's happening with your friend and her person, she's like totally not being present because she's just totally self conscious about not making any sounds that would make her seem less.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Or even using the bathroom.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, that one is an odd one. We do have a friend like that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think that's what he's saying though.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. She will not use the bathroom.

[Mandy Patinkin]

The bathroom at somebody's.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, that's very strange. What is that? I know, but why doesn't she just share with this person, if she's intimate with him, that she's very self conscious and can he go in the kitchen while she uses the bathroom?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I got a little advice. There was a guy I worked with on Criminal Minds. I can't remember his name. It was a big tall guy who was a prop guy. He was like a motorc motorcycle guy. Like a Hell's Angels guy. I think he was a Hell's Angels guy. And he carried around. So he was a real tough guy. But he carried around a little thing of wet wets. You know, like wet nappy things like you clean a baby's bum with when you change the diaper. Because two reasons. They. They.

[Tynan Davis (voice note)]

He.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

He felt the toilet paper would really bruise, you know, his. His butt, you know, like, you know, like, you know, too. Too much rubbing of paper.

[Kathryn Grody]

Friction.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Friction. I don't know what the word is, but mess up is asshole.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So he was worried about that. So he carried this, you know, because it. It was just gentle. It was like gentle like on a baby. They were from babies.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So you can. So you can have that to just have, you know, nicer butt. But you can also use the paper if you're paranoid about the seat. You know, you can wipe off the seat with one of these papers.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's great advice for somebody who's concerned about cleanliness or the constitution of their asshole.

[Kathryn Grody]

But this is a person that doesn't want to.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Doesn't want to be heard or doesn't want anyone to.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, it's just the sounds that the

[Mandy Patinkin]

person was saying and fear that a romantic partner will be aware of them taking a shit in their home, you

[Kathryn Grody]

know, Isn't it weird, though? These people are sleeping together, I'm assuming. So she's not self conscious about exchange of bodily, you know, organs.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's what happens.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Can't talk about this stuff.

[Kathryn Grody]

Okay. I'm just saying I think it would be part of intimacy for either of these people to confess to their romantic partners is I'm a little bit weird and self conscious about this aspect of being human. So will you go in another room if I use the bathroom or. Let me just tell you that and get over it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's theoretically nice for maybe a relationship that's been going on for a while, but I can't imagine somebody saying that to somebody you're starting to see for the first new.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. So what would you do?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I would go into an immersion program where it's just people taking shits right next to other people.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

This is the end of weeks. This is the end of this podcast. Whole idea of this podcast there was. I looked, it showed up online that it shows, like, what the podcast or the next podcast is, or it sort of gives a little blurb on what our podcast might be discussing. Like, you know, today is going to be about Abraham Lincoln or something. And one of them said farts. You know that? It's a podcast.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We wrote that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, great. So now this is the second one. This is the second one that is in the same zone. Why would anyone tune in to listen to us?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay, what do all people all over the world have in common? We all get born, we all die,

[Kathryn Grody]

and we all have bodily functions.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, God.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But I do want to say, though, this is. I love the story about the Hells Angels guy really taking care of his asshole and treating it like the holy vessel and place that it is. And I think we could all do better to treat all of our holes with great tenderness and care.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, one of the things I like about that image is, is it really confronts assumptions you make about people.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's right.

[Kathryn Grody]

Because what is it?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What is what what is the assumption? What is it confronting?

[Kathryn Grody]

It confronts how one thinks in a stereotypical way. If I saw a big, huge, you know, Hell's angel motorcycle guy, I wouldn't assume he carried around, you know, little gentle baby wipes for his tush. And so that's kind of interesting that you can't make assumptions about people. And we're all screwed up about bodily function in this country, particularly because the damn puritans.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But don't you agree that it's particularly worse with women? I mean, men, you know, we fart

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

and we laugh and, yeah, we piss anywhere. We get out of the car and piss in front of the whole family.

[Kathryn Grody]

I do think it's harder. I do think women. I do think women have a harder time and have been taught to not be comfortable with anything that can be interpreted as, you know, not feminine or attractive.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So for progress right here, right now, would you want. Do you want to fart?

[Kathryn Grody]

I don't really. Honey, I don't need to. I don't have that ability. But if I ever do, I'm not sure if I would share that with, you know, whoever is listening and watching. But I might say, oh, this is one of those moments where I'm. I mean, really, do I want to share that? I do think it's a private, public thing, and I understand it's one of

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

the longest discussions we've had about us.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God, there's editing. David, good luck.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But actually, I do have one other thought. If you didn't want to talk about your discomfort with going to the bathroom, you could say that you have an odd habit of playing music loudly on your phone whenever you go to the bathroom. And that could mask any sort of bodily function sound. And maybe music with a lot of percussion could also help mask whatever your body's doing.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You know what I do sometimes when

[Kathryn Grody]

I go to the bathroom, because the

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

bathroom's right off my studio, I either turn the water on real loud and waste water, which is a bad thing to do, or I ask the person to go in another room. Because I literally say, I don't like people hear me go to. Going to the bathroom. So go to. Go to the living room. I'll be back in five.

[Tynan Davis (voice note)]

Great.

[Kathryn Grody]

I think music is a really good idea.

[Mandy Patinkin]

All right, David, we have given you just a plethora of incredible ideas that will immediately solve this problem for you and your people and everyone in the world.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, probably.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And thank you. Please let us know how you fare in the future.

[Kathryn Grody]

And you have such a great sense of Humor. David, I would just share this issue with your new love. And I bet she laughs and loves you more.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That was mom.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. Thanks, kid.

[Mandy Patinkin]

All right, so our next question will be joined by a live guest. And first, we are going to hear her voice note.

[Tynan Davis (voice note)]

Good morning, Catherine and Mandy. My name is Tynan Davis. I've been in New York for 20 years. I'm 46 years old, and last night, I got to submit my very first Playbill bio. And it was really exciting. And I'm yet so sad, because the one person that I really want to share it with who would be excited is my mom, and she passed away 13 years ago. And I know that the grief that I feel is directly correlated to the piles and piles of love. How do you. How do you manage being your own best cheerleader when you feel like your best cheerleader isn't around? Well, I don't feel it. I don't feel like she's not around. She's not around. Oh, I got. My kid's naked. I gotta put clothes on him. Thank you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hello, Tynan.

[Tynan Davis (voice note)]

Hi.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How are you?

[Tynan Davis]

I'm well. How are you?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Bo, you have the same earphones we do.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, I know.

[Tynan Davis]

Look how like modern we are with our early aughts.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

First of all, congratulations on having a bio and a play means you have a job and I have a job.

[Tynan Davis]

So. Nice.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I would like everyone listening out there with your mother, wherever she is, to stand up and give you a hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

You know.

[Tynan Davis]

Oh, man.

[Kathryn Grody]

Let me tell you, I was very surprised when I was listening to you, Tynan, because I. Is that how I'm saying your name correctly?

[Tynan Davis]

Perfect.

[Kathryn Grody]

When I first came to New York, actually to visit a fellow, I ended up having an audition, and I ended up getting a Broadway show. Understudy to a Broadway show called scapino. And after 10 days with no rehearsal, they called one night and said, you're on Hattie. Winston's sick. And Tynan, I went to call my mom, who had been dead for several years. Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Wow.

[Kathryn Grody]

So, I mean, I was so scared and so excited. And that was the only person my impulse was to call at that moment for both comfort and shared excitement, was my mom. But what occurs to me now, and what occurs, she is there. She supported you all those years, and during the struggles, she never lost faith in you, which helped you keep going. Do you know? And it is agonizing, you know, that in the form you want her to be in, she isn't there. But all that support is inside you. And I really believe you can talk to her. You can share it. You can share those feelings. And it's just a way of dealing with the sorrow of that physical land, fiscal loss. But she's there. All that support she gave you is there.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Tynan, can you share with our audience, just for people who don't know what a bio and a playbill is?

[Tynan Davis]

Oh, God, yeah. How can you pick the most potent 75 words to tell total strangers what your life is about and who you are trying to be in the world? That's what it feels like.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And so this is in the playbill, the little booklet for the play, and it's your little paragraph that says what other projects you've been able to describe

[Tynan Davis]

yourself, why I'm bonafide, why I deserve to be. I don't know. Like, how did I get here? Who was foolish enough to take a chance on me? I don't know.

[Mandy Patinkin]

How did your mom used to cheer you on?

[Tynan Davis]

Well, I have this very distinct image that at the time, when I was younger, I was so embarrassed by as I think children can sometimes. Sometimes be of their parents. But she would. When anything exciting happened for anybody, not just me, she would do this thing where she would jump up and down and clap her hands, like, just totally uninhibited and unmonitored in such a beautiful way. She was a very tall woman and was a dancer, so she was quite beautifully embodied. And so she would. She would just embody her joy for other people's wins. And I think that's what I miss the most is, like, I think that we would jump up and down together in a kitchen and be, you know, like, that's. And not that I don't have cheerleaders. I have phenomenal cheerleaders in the world. But I think it's specifically that. That version of an embodiment with, like, the person that gave me everything to get to where I am still somehow finding new things to learn and be a part of. So I think that's also part of the grief, too, is that I think I am so driven to keep going in this weird job.

[Kathryn Grody]

Absolutely.

[Tynan Davis]

To bring her into those rooms with me somehow. She didn't. She was also a singer, and she was a gorgeous musician, but she put all of her professional desires on a shelf to be a great mom. I'm not made up of that same thing. So I'm still. But I think I want to bring her into those rooms, too, in a way.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, you know, Tynan, you could have a ritual. I mean, I do A ritual before every show. And it's a way of me bringing in my mom and dad and Joe Papp and the people that were my cheerleaders. Do you know, I just see them. I always take a moment. I see them hanging from a beam or sitting there looking at me, and I just talk to them, and I see them before I go on stage. And I just had this image of you before you walk out there, jumping up and down and clapping. It doesn't matter what anybody. But that's your ritual of really bringing that joyful part of your mom with you when you walk on there.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm gonna share with you. I've said it a million times. I'll say it a million more because I think it's the greatest gift I discovered. I say prayers many times a day, twice a day when I feed my dog. And I always say it's a litany of about 10 minutes or maybe five to eight minutes total, because it goes pretty fast now. But I mentioned the name of every person that was connected to me that I had some connection with, some deep connections and some maybe not so good connections, but they've passed on in the world that I'm familiar with, and I don't want to lose them. And Oscar Hammerstein wrote a line in the libretto carousel. Forgive me, I've said this a million times, too, but it is one of the holiest tenants of my life. Tenants or prayers or advices or thoughts in. In the. In. In a musical carousel in the libretto of all things, he wrote this line. As long as there's one person on earth who remembers you, it isn't over. And I heard you on the. On the. On the note that you were reading to us and there was a child in the background. You have a child? A naked child. Maybe. Maybe you have more than one.

[Tynan Davis]

How many children do you have?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Just the one. And clearly you're quite beautiful and you look like a young mother. And I dare say. I don't know. I'm curious to know, before we have to part, what it is that the bio's for, what play it is, where you're doing it. But I would dare say you may be playing a mother in this play or in others, and I guarantee you, whether you are making notes in your script or in your mind or on your walks, that I'll do this. This is what my mother did. I'll do this. Or there's a. Whether you do that or you don't do it, your mother will be with you every step of the way. She's breathing. You're breathing her in and out every minute, every day. And do this if you have the desire. One of the reasons I love being on stage more than any place on the planet is because when I look out there, aside from the adrenaline that comes into my being, which is just the greatest gift that human beings have ever been given, I look out into that darkness because the lights are in my eyes and I see that darkness. And I put into that darkness all the loved ones, those that I've known and those that I've heard about. Sometimes in the millions. In the millions that I've never met or seen. And they are my audience. I somehow see them more realistically than the people in the front row. I feel them in a larger sense than the. Than, you know, than the bounce of the light on the faces I can see. And I live for it, and I love it. And I'm never alone out there.

[Mandy Patinkin]

There.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And, you know, if. If there was one gift I had to offer you, like, you know, see if you like that.

[Tynan Davis]

It's beautiful. That's beautiful. I love it. I love it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Tynan, how's it. How's the show going? Is it still happening right now?

[Tynan Davis]

We start rehearsals tomorrow.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What is the show?

[Tynan Davis]

It's a mall. In the Night Visitors by Minahi at Lincoln Center Theater.

[Kathryn Grody]

That's Mia Barron's friends. What the. The playwright's name?

[Tynan Davis]

Well, it's an opera. It's a one. It's the. It's Giancarlo Menotti. It was the first opera composed for television in the 50s.

[Tynan Davis (voice note)]

And I'm.

[Tynan Davis]

I'm a swing. I'm swinging the entire ensemble. I wanted to understudy the mother. The late. The lead mezzo soprano is. Is a mother. And my mother taught me that opera when I was a kid. So, I mean, I was like, it's so. So full of a lot of stuff, and I'm gonna hang out and be ready for anything.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Shirley MacLaine was a swing. I think Chris Walken was a swing dancer, you know, and of course, how many people are you covering?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, wait. And Tyna, before you answer that, can you just explain to our non theater experience folks what a swing is?

[Tynan Davis]

Yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, yeah.

[Tynan Davis]

I like to. So the swing is insurance for a show. And so if someone gets sick or has calls out, I am swung into their part. And for Amal in the Night Visitors, I'm swinging the upper voices of the ensemble. So every upper voice. Mezzo soprano, both soprano parts, both alpha.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Not just as a singer. You're also walking on stage as the character if you. If they're out of the box, right?

[Tynan Davis]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So you have to learn multiple parts and be at the red many.

[Tynan Davis]

Yes.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm in awe. Tynan. I mean, do you know when you describe this, even though I know what a swing is, but when you describe this, my heart rate literally accelerated in anxiety on your behalf.

[Tynan Davis]

Mine does, too. Mine does too. Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Tynan, let us know when. If you get the call. I know sometimes it comes at like, you know, 6:30 on the night when you have a 7:00 clock curtain. But if we're in town, let us know. And we would love to come see you when you go on.

[Tynan Davis]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That would be a blast for us. Yeah, because we'll be cheerleading. We'll compete with your mother. That's what we'll do.

[Kathryn Grody]

That's right.

[Tynan Davis]

And we will delight.

[Kathryn Grody]

We will jump. If we're lucky to see you, we will jump up and down at the end.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So who's directing this piece?

[Tynan Davis]

Kenny Leon.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, great. Can I return to just. One of Tynan's questions? Was this thing about how do you become your own best cheerleader when your best cheerleader isn't around? And I feel like, dad, that's something in particular. I've seen you over the years of your performance anxiety or things like when you're struggling with the thing, your family can give you advice, therapist friends, you know, but it's really, at the end of the day, it's like you and yourself that are finding a way to get through it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And to get to the next part. And I feel like you've become your own best cheerleader through those hardest moments.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm looking at my phone to see here it is different pieces that I do before I go on stage. I have a concert that I do called Being Alive. Sometimes I'm exhausted, I'm tired. I have no voice. I gotta go out there. There's no swing for me. I gotta get out there and do it no matter what. And I write thoughts down to just help me. It's the craft that I learned from Jerry Friedman at Juilliard Drama School, sitting next to Bill Hurt when we did a classic play called Duchess of Malfi. What is an action? How do you play it? And as Jane Alexander said to me one day, I was. I was going up for a piece, and I kept saying, why, here's this piece. And I read it to her and I said, but I can't figure out what the action is. And Jane who is an actress that I just adore and loved. And I was. I was 24 years old before I met you. 23 or 24. And she said, well, you don't need that. You don't need that action stuff and stuff you learn in school, when you feel it, the way you feel it. And then years later, I realized, well, I felt this one thing, the way I felt it all the time. And then one day, I couldn't find it. It just disappeared. It, like, evaporated in my brain. And then I went to. I remember saying to myself, years later, jane, I think you made a mistake. Jane, you do need it. You need it when you don't think you need it. And for instance, for my concert, being alive, which is. Sorry, I hit the mic, which is a whole variety of songs. The main thing I think, when I do being alive is get out there and celebrate life. Connect with those people. Tell them to celebrate every single second. I don't care how you feel, Mandy, right now. Get out there and tell them to have fun. And that's my main. Go to Mandy.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's your main cheer, my main cheer.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thank you, Mandy. Go out there and tell them to have fun. Don't tell you to have fun. That's too hard to do. But tell that character I'm talking to to have fun. Tell my mother to have fun, wherever she is. Just have it underneath everything that's coming out of me.

[Kathryn Grody]

And just. She is in you. That description. I can see her, Tyne, and I've never met her, but I have this image of this beautiful tall woman jumping up and down. And honestly, if you just do that for yourself before you go on or before you rehearse, and it doesn't matter what anybody thinks, you know that there you are, you know, you're able to do this, and she is inside of you. And that's a ritual where you actually, you know, have her be there right on your shoulders.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How long has it been since she's passed away, Tynan?

[Tynan Davis]

13 years.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Have you had dreams about her?

[Tynan Davis]

No. That's the crazy. I mean, a couple. A couple, but not as many as other people, well, have had and told me about.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I believe you're going to have some dreams about her sooner than you. Even though it's 13 years, I really believe it. And go out there and find her in your sleep, on your walks, on that stage, look in that darkness. She's in every fucking seat.

[Kathryn Grody]

And Tina, we are all so lucky if we were given the gift of having a parent that we miss. I Think there is nothing sadder than a person being here and leaving without anybody missing them or caring and no connection. So we have the choice of closing ourselves off and not daring to be connected so that we end up feeling this grief and this loss. Do you know? Or choosing to connect and feel it. And then we conjure them up and reach for them in these other ways that there is so much nothing. What was the quote? My brother was a Buddhist monkey. Nothing is as it's seems, nor is it otherwise. It's a hard thing to get. And my interpretation of that is your mother was here and she jumped up and down, and she's still jumping up and down somewhere and inside of you or in some form.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom, you. You lost your parents in your early 20s?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, I lost.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Do you feel them? Do you still feel them as a cheerleader or.

[Kathryn Grody]

I do. And it's a strange thing, the weirdness of time, Tyne. And I mean, my parents have been gone since I was 25 years old, and I know that. And I can tell funny stories about them or sad ones. And then once in a while, it hits me as if it just happened. You know, I can share my kids. I can talk about them.

[Tynan Davis (voice note)]

I.

[Kathryn Grody]

But they didn't get to see them as the human incarnation. And. God damn. God.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

God damn it. Right? God damn it. Oh, my gosh.

[Kathryn Grody]

I mean, it's just a funny thing. But that also means we're feeling beings.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Do you know, before we go, Tynan, I'm curious if you have any advice for me as somebody who hasn't lost their parents yet, but apparently will someday, who has. Whose parents have been their biggest cheerleader?

[Tynan Davis]

Gideon, what a gorgeous question.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Anything. Anything You'd.

[Tynan Davis]

I mean, I feel like you're. You're doing it, right? The documenting and the being with. And I think that's the thing that I. That I really just. I was so. I'll say. I'll use the technical term. My head was so far up my own ass before. Before, and I didn't ask them. I didn't know what questions to ask. I didn't. I didn't ask enough questions of. Of my mom before I lost her. And I feel like. And same. I just never really got to know her as an adult. And I think that it's really beautiful that you're doing that, and I think that you've modeled that for a lot of people. So bravo to y' all for showing how we can be in relationship with our parents as adults. It's really beautiful.

[Kathryn Grody]

Thank you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Thanks for saying that I have a

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

little piece of advice.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

For you on that question. Just get me whatever I ask for. And then you feel like this is.

[Mandy Patinkin]

This is Mandy's way of getting a glass of water when he's across the room and ask me to get it for him.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And I look, I wish I just gotten him that last mine, but I'm so glad I got him that last glass of water, Ty.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And thank you so much. Thank you.

[Tynan Davis]

This is a delight, the privilege of

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

seeing you swinging in.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Tynan Davis]

Oh, I'll.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'll let.

[Tynan Davis]

I'll. I'll let you know.

[Kathryn Grody]

Have a great time.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Have a great time. Thanks for. Thanks for coming to us.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Tynan Davis (voice note)]

Thank you.

[Tynan Davis]

Have a good day. Bye, beautiful.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, thanks, everyone for tuning in. That's the end of our episode today. We want to hear from you. If you got more questions, stories, if you're swinging in for opera, if you've got advice for us or our dog Becky, if you've got.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, anything,

[Mandy Patinkin]

please, if you have anything to send our way, we'd love to be in conversation with you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't send me cookies or sweets. I'm on a new diet.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Great.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm not trying to eat pasta. Don't send pasta.

[Tynan Davis]

Great.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But you can email askmandyandcatherinemail.com as Mandy said, please don't email any pasta. Or check out our socials for an easy way to send us a voice note.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't send vegan ice cream thinking that it's, you know. Don't send me dairy.

[Mandy Patinkin]

There's vegan ice cream.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, but it has so much sugar in it. Don't send me sugar.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay, well, nobody's sending you any of these things on email.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm just warning. I don't want people to waste postage.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Thanks so much for being here and tuning in. And just remember, don't listen to us.

[Tynan Davis (voice note)]

Foreign.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Don't listen to us is a Lemonada Media original hosted by Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Created by Katrina Onstad, Debbie Pacheco and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Executive producers are Kathryn Grody, Gideon Grody Patinkin, Mandy Patinkin, Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles Wax. Our engineer is Ryan Derringer of Welterweight Sound. Video and audio production by Mark Whiteway of Bellows Media. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Media Premium yet, now's the perfect time. You can hear Don't Listen to Us completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like behind the scenes conversations, questions so weird they didn't make it on air, Becky the Dog Shenanigans and more. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple podcasts. Head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app, or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out.