Thanksgiving Politics, Plastic Surgery & The Song that Defines Us

Summary

Podcast Summary

Don't Listen To Us with Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody

Episode: Thanksgiving Politics, Plastic Surgery & The Song that Defines Us
Date: November 26, 2025
Host: Lemonada Media
Featuring: Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody, Gideon Grody Patinkin

Episode Overview

This episode of “Don’t Listen To Us” dives into the complexities of navigating family gatherings—specifically Thanksgiving—when politics, generational divides, and personal change are on the menu. Mandy, Kathryn, and their son Gideon field listener questions on the strain of partisan politics at the holiday table, aging gracefully, and the songs that define their relationship. Throughout, the family’s signature blend of humor, candor, and warmth guides listeners through deeply relatable dilemmas.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Radio Card Tricks & Thanksgiving Rituals

• [00:11–02:45] Gideon kicks off with a “radio card trick” skit—an intentionally shambolic icebreaker, setting the podcast’s light and playful tone.
• Thanksgiving Traditions:
  • Kathryn enjoys Thanksgiving mostly for her daughter-in-law’s enthusiasm and Mandy’s stuffing.
  • Passover and Rosh Hashanah are Kathryn's preferred holidays.
  • Mandy expresses readiness to pass on the turkey-cooking torch, joking about aging out of kitchen duty.
  • Discussion on why turkey is rarely eaten outside of Thanksgiving—difficulty in preparation and the notorious sleepy effect (tryptophan).
  • Kathryn continues her tradition of questioning eating animals, to which Gideon affectionately notes her perennial debates.
  • Quote – Mandy [03:35]:

    “My mom’s stuffing was great. The turkey’s not that hard to keep moist… just follow the timing, follow the poundage, and put it breast side down.”

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2. Call-in: Handling Politics at the Holiday Table

Listener Nancy’s Dilemma

• [05:09–27:32] Nancy (from NYC) asks how to cope when deeply divided politics (her family’s Trump support) threaten family bonds at Thanksgiving. She feels isolated and unsure how to maintain connection without accepting beliefs she finds hurtful.
• Kathryn admits her own social bubble contains few Trump supporters, but she’s tried cross-ideological conversations, often without success.
  • Quote – Kathryn [06:52]:

    “I’ve tried to have a conversation with the one friend I have that’s down the mad rabbit holes... we try, but it’s almost impossible.”

• Mandy affirms his activist stance but clarifies he’s less focused on changing minds and more on understanding why people think as they do.
  • Quote – Mandy [09:49]:

    “The main thing that America was to me was the one that came out there and showed the world how to treat other human beings and take care of them. That’s what I thought my country was about. And we’ve lost that. And I am going to work till the end of my life to replace that... I wish that there would be polar opposite opinions at our Thanksgiving table because that would really be interesting to me.”

• Deep listening, curiosity, and engagement (not conversion) are Mandy’s recipe for civil discourse.
• The difference in Kathryn’s approach: she engages to change minds, while Mandy seeks understanding.
  • Quote – Mandy [11:13]:

    “I try to practice deep listening. I’m genuinely curious as how we come from similar backgrounds and you feel X and I feel Y. How is that possible? I’m curious about it and I don’t need your vote.”

• Nancy reveals her extended family dynamics—her alienation as an “outsider” urban liberal, the presence of proselytizing, and generational divides. She expresses the pain of seeing loved ones embrace hostile or exclusionary politics.
• Kathryn suggests starting on common ground: discussing specific issues (like Medicaid, ICE, or farming) where even MAGA supporters may have overlapping concerns.
  • Quote – Kathryn [18:00]:

    “I’m wondering if there’s one subject with a Gen Z cousin of yours... if you start with a specific issue that you might find common ground in.”

• Mandy draws a hard line at violence, racism, or sexism making someone unwelcome at his table.
  • Quote – Mandy [20:04]:

    “If you’re gonna be violent, sexist or racist in my face, you will be asked to leave.”

• The hosts stress the complexity of political identities—reminding listeners not to oversimplify or “kitchen sink” opposing views, but to remain aware of the possibility (and limits) of finding shared values.
  • Quote – Mandy [22:08]:

    “If we walk away from the table, we lose. So I have a dilemma.”

• Kathryn recommends support groups like “Better Angels” (now Braver Angels), which help facilitate conversations across the political spectrum.
• Mandy’s final advice: set boundaries if things get too heated—choose presence and connection, or step away to preserve peace. Cherish shared memories, find joy in the moment, and reconnect once tempers cool.

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3. The Song That Defines Us

• [27:42–32:17] Listener Vicki asks what song represents Mandy and Kathryn’s love.
  • Kathryn names "It Takes Two" from Into the Woods (Stephen Sondheim) as “their” song, recounting how she learned it for Mandy’s 60th birthday.
  • The family reflects on Kathryn’s non-musical background and the effort it took to learn (Gideon helped her practice).
    • Quote – Kathryn [28:01]:

      “It Takes Two from Into the Woods by Stephen Sondheim… I did learn it perfectly.”

  • Mandy muses that “Over the Rainbow” is perhaps a better fit, noting its broad hopefulness and ties to his family’s immigrant story.
    • Quote – Mandy [30:35]:

      “I think Over the Rainbow is universally one of the great wishes for human beings ever, anywhere.”

  • They reflect on the song’s deep resonance for immigrants and those yearning for freedom, including the story of a friend discovering it while fleeing Afghanistan.

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4. Aging Gracefully: Gray Hair and Plastic Surgery

• [32:19–36:40] The conversation turns to gratitude for things that once caused discomfort.
  • Mandy says he used to hate liver but now delights in it (especially when thin-pounded and sautéed at a favorite NYC restaurant).
  • Kathryn discusses initially hating her gray hair, then coming to prefer it over coloring. Mandy passionately celebrates natural aging and pleads with listeners—especially women—not to resort to plastic surgery.
    • Quote – Mandy [36:03]:

      “Please, to all the women of the world, leave your faces alone. Please don’t operate on them and change them... This is the map of my life. Enjoy and share the map of your life. Don’t freeze it so your face doesn’t move so we can’t see your expressions. Get older. It’s a great thing that you do. You’re beautiful. You get more beautiful...”

  • Kathryn credits Gideon for his feminist advocacy and emotional intelligence.
    • Quote – Kathryn [36:26]:

      “I am proud of raising a son who can express that feeling.”

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5. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Deep Listening:
  • Mandy [09:49]:

    “I try to practice deep listening. I’m genuinely curious as how we come from similar backgrounds and you feel X and I feel Y.”

• On Drawing Boundaries:
  • Mandy [20:04]:

    “If you’re gonna be violent, sexist or racist in my face, you will be asked to leave.”

• On Accepting Complexity:
  • Mandy [22:08]:

    “If we walk away from the table, we lose. So I have a dilemma.”

• On Aging & Beauty:
  • Mandy [36:03]:

    “Please, to all the women of the world, leave your faces alone... This is the map of my life. Enjoy and share the map of your life.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:11–02:45: Radio card trick & Thanksgiving meal traditions
• 05:09–27:32: Call-in advice on family political divisions at Thanksgiving
• 27:42–32:17: The song that defines Mandy and Kathryn
• 32:19–36:40: Gratitude for aging, gray hair, and letting go of plastic surgery pressures

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Takeaways

• Political differences are fraught but benefit from deep listening, patience, and finding small commonalities.
• Family traditions provide grounding—even as roles and responsibilities shift with age.
• Cherishing shared history and simple joys can overcome even painful disagreements.
• Aging naturally is beautiful, and resisting societal pressure to “fix” one’s appearance promotes self-acceptance and deeper connections.

Final Notes:
This episode balances wit and wisdom, offering practical frameworks for negotiating tricky family dynamics and gentle encouragement to embrace both personal and societal change—with heart, humility, and a little bit of song.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

Lemonade. Here.

[B]

I want to do something. I don't know if it's been done on radio before, but got a deck of cards here. Pick a card, any card. Oh, wait, let me just make this so you know, it's deck of cards for listening.

[A]

Cards, video. They can see.

[B]

Well, some people.

[A]

Here's a card here. Now can I show it to the cameras?

[B]

You could show it to the cameras. Close your eyes. Say it out loud. You can say it out loud.

[A]

Both your cards. Eight of clubs.

[C]

Queen of spades.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, now change cards. Give him your card. Okay, now put that card back in there. Yep. Now hold this half of the deck. Okay. Catherine, you put your card in his half of the deck? Yeah.

[A]

Anywhere.

[B]

Yeah. Now let me pick a card from here. That's three of clubs. I'll put that in my half of the deck. I'll give it a shuffle. One, two. Now, Katherine, you take a card from Mandy's half of the deck.

[A]

Any card?

[B]

Yeah, any card. Yeah. And what is that card? Read that out to the audience.

[C]

That is a three of hearts.

[B]

What do you think?

[A]

Incredible trick.

[B]

I'm sort of working on it. I thought, I thought I'd figure it.

[C]

Out as we go along. Right, right. I must say, I'm a little disappointed. I was expecting magician.

[A]

That was a great trick. Yeah, I love.

[B]

Pretty good, right?

[C]

Yeah, really pretty good.

[B]

Honey, did you think you would pick the two of hearts at that moment?

[C]

I didn't. I thought I'd pick the spades.

[B]

Well, that'll be an ongoing segment called Gideon's Radio Card Tricks.

[A]

Pretty proud of that one.

[B]

Hey, so it's Thanksgiving is around the bend.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

How you guys like Thanksgiving. As a general, I've been shopping for everything.

[C]

Yeah, well, I like it because it's my daughter in law's favorite holiday. And it wasn't ever my favorite holiday. Except that I love dad's stuffing and I like my crapley stuff. Yeah.

[B]

What was your favorite holiday?

[C]

Passover in Rosh Hashanah at our house.

[B]

And dad, how do you feel about Thanksgiving in general? Yeah, Yeah, I, I. You're the stuffing guy.

[A]

Yeah, I make the stuffing and I usually stuff the turkey and make the turkey too, but I'm happily willing to morph away from that and let you and Isaac.

[B]

I don't want.

[A]

I don't want to make anything do it.

[B]

I don't want to make anything.

[A]

You're a good cook, though. Gideon, let's go somewhere else for Thanksgiving.

[B]

See, you never want to make stuff, but you make it. I never Want to make stuff?

[A]

I may not make anything this year. I'm getting older. I feel it's time to pass it on.

[B]

So you think this year maybe you'll just eat and not make?

[A]

I'd like you to make the stuffing. I'm gonna get a turkey sandwich at the deli.

[B]

What's your opinion of turkey?

[A]

Tryptophan.

[B]

Do you like it?

[A]

I worry about it putting me to sleep. And you can see I'm yawning. I'm half asleep already.

[B]

Why don't we eat it more often, though? Because of the sleep thing. We just eat it once a year.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

It's difficult to cook. It's hard to get that breast meat tender.

[C]

I am debating about eating animals.

[B]

You've been debating about eating animals for years. You've been debating about cell phones. Does it feel good? Like it's going halfway there just to debate about it?

[C]

I used to debate it to punish myself.

[B]

Like, you feel you're helping the animals? Just debating it.

[A]

It's the best meal of the year, though. I love it. And I love the leftovers.

[C]

The leftovers is the best.

[A]

And my mom's stuffing was great. And the turkey's not that hard to keep moist. You just follow the timing, follow the poundage, and put it breast side down.

[B]

I do like the pages. You can tell the pages in your mom's cookbook. Grandma Dorley for the Holiday cookbook.

[A]

Yeah, those are the ones. All.

[B]

Yeah, it's like all these clean pages. Clean pages. Filthy page. Chocolate chicken.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Did you have coffee? You have coffee in the afternoon? Do you have coffee now?

[C]

I have. I have coffee before 4 o'. Clock. Two cups. I had one cup.

[A]

Let me have a little.

[B]

Oh, boy. No, you can give him one sip. A little sip of that little sip. We'll see what happens.

[A]

What's in it?

[C]

It is a touch of milk.

[B]

Mandy. Mandy has had only three cups of coffee in his whole life.

[C]

It's not even hardly any. It's not even a teaspoon.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

You feel the effects? Okay, guys, so we're gonna try something a little different. We are going to start off the show with a live caller. So if you want to put your headphones in, we sort of dedicated the show today to holiday and family gathering questions because there's a lot of those this time of year, and it's not always easy to navigate. So, mom, dad, we're going to start off with a live caller to kind of set the table, as they say. It's Mandy's LIVE CALLER THEME but first, let's listen to Nancy's voice message.

[D]

My question for you is do you guys ever have an experience with family or friends supporting Donald Trump? Either this election, last election, anything in between? I'm having this issue with my extended family. In the past, it's always just been their Republican, I'm Democrat, we just leave it alone. We don't get into politics. But now the stakes are so high that it feels like a personal assault. What they believe or what some of them believe, what their spouses and spouses families believe. I walked into a 65th birthday party for my cousin last year and it was like going into a Trump rally. I don't want to completely alienate myself from this very important group of people who are the only remaining family I have from my father's family. So this is my question. How have you dealt with it? Have you had to deal with it? What should I do? Thank you. Bye.

[A]

Hey, Nancy, are you there?

[D]

I am. Can you hear me?

[A]

Yeah, I hear you loud and clear. Thanks for your question.

[B]

Nancy, where are you calling from? Where are you calling from today?

[D]

New York City. Very blue, very New York City.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Thank you for sharing that with us.

[C]

Yeah. Nancy, I mean, I think, yeah, you're probably.

[D]

It's very sensitive, isn't it?

[C]

Well, it is and you're in very good company. I'll tell you, I'm not very good at this. I'm trying to be better. It's pretty extraordinary. I only know really two people that are in that camp, Nancy, which shows the limitations of my social sphere. I have tried to have a conversation with the one friend I have that's down the mad rabbit holes. We try, but it's almost impossible.

[B]

I mean, that one friend of yours doesn't. You keep inviting them to exchange articles, to have a conversation across great difference and this great divide. She keeps indicating she's not interested in that. If you want to find a Trump or a MAGA friend to have those conversations with, you've got to find someone who's willing to meet you halfway there.

[A]

You got one. 800 MAGA friend?

[C]

I don't know. But you know, Nancy, one of the things I recently listened to a book that really helped me understand how we got into this or some of those. It's called Doppelganger by Naomi Klein. I highly, highly recommend listening or reading. I think it's one of those books that's easier to listen to. She really explains some of these weird connections, you know, like the yoga wellness person that hates Vaccines and is a Steve Bannon fan. You know, these weird combinations that are incomprehensible to me, but it helped me understand those combinations and sort of how to think about them and think about my own part in generalizing. I mean, I think Democrats have a lot to answer to. We screwed up a lot, and I'd love to make that more public. So I think just owning that and maybe listening to some people like Naomi Klein, that gives you understanding about people's ideas or misinformation.

[B]

But. Yeah, you haven't. We haven't been confronted with that in our family like so many families have in this country. Well, but we, I mean, so we're. See, we're actually like, you know, we talk about actively seeking out sometimes those relationships. It's kind of like a fantasy to try to do our part in repairing this divide or having conversations across difference, but it's not in our face in the holiday season or with our families all the time. And I know, dad, you have kind of different feelings about it.

[A]

Well, I mean, let's have full disclosure here. If you haven't already seen. We will be pounding the drum mercilessly for replacements to our Congress and to this administration in 28, working very hard.

[C]

26.

[A]

I said for the Congress. I meant 26 for the, the Congress and 28 for new administration because I do not approve of what this administration is doing. I do not approve of the lack of empathy or kindness toward individuals that have been good citizens in this country, that have helped our farmers and other businesses that are running away from situations that are unsafe for them and their families. The main thing that America was to me was the one that came out there and, and showed the world how to treat other human beings and take care of them. That's what I thought my country was about. And we've lost that. And I am going to work till the end of my life to replace that and the morals and ethical ideas that our country means to me and the democracy that I'm familiar with and correct some of these things. It will take some time to write again, but I wish and it won't be this way. So I wish that there would be polar opposite opinions at our Thanksgiving table because that would really be interesting to me. That would wake me up. You see, Kath, when she meets someone of the opposite ideological persuasion, she will really engage them in her effort to try to change them. That is not what I do or am interested in. I am interested in why they think in a polar opposite fashion from the way I think I, I try to practice deep listening. I'm genuinely curious as how we come from similar backgrounds and you feel X and I feel Y. How is that possible? I'm curious about it and I don't need your vote. There are enough people in this country, our country, that are not participating in the electoral process that I believe would make a difference on either side. And I am interested in spending my energy engaging with them and encouraging them to register to vote and, and vote and participate in our democracy. So that's what I do.

[D]

Well, you've done a wonderful job. You've done a wonderful job and I appreciate everything you guys do. You've done more than your share. More than your share. You never feel that you haven't really appreciate it.

[A]

We do everything we can. And your words.

[D]

We need to figure out why. That's the thing is like, that's what I need to know.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Figure out what? Why?

[C]

Why we've gotten in this position, ma'.

[D]

Am.

[A]

What? Why?

[D]

Why do people feel the way they do and vote the way they do? Why did they. And if we don't sort that out, we'll never get this all right again. Or ever if we don't figure it out.

[E]

Well, hi, everybody. It's Julia Louis Dreyfus from the Wiser Than Me podcast. And I'm not going to talk about food waste this time. I'm going to talk about food resources. All that uneaten food rotting in the landfill. It could be enriching our soil or feeding our chickens because it's still food. And the easiest and frankly, way coolest way to put all its nutrients to work is with the mill food recycler. It looks like an art house garbage can. You can just toss your scraps in it like a garbage can, but it is definitely not a garbage can. I mean, it's true. I'm pretty obsessed with this thing. I even invested in this thing. But I'm not alone. Any mill owner just might corner you at a party and raps and eyes about how it's completely odorless and it's fully automated and how you can keep filling it for weeks. But the clincher is that you can depend on it for years. Mill is a serious machine. Think about a dishwasher, not a toaster. It's built by hand in North America and it's engineered by the guy who did your iPhone. But you have to kind of live with mill to understand all the love. That's why they offer a risk free trial. Go to mill.com wiser for an exclusive offer.

[B]

Nancy, can I ask, in the time that you've spent with your relatives who have different feelings about all this than you, have you found any success in having meaningful conversations with them? Have you felt there's been meaningful listening across the aisle and that you can understand each other a bit more when you are in the same room, or has it been successful so far?

[D]

Like I said in the in the voice note, we we've had a no politics and no religion policy for many years, which has served fine until now. And these are folks that are while they're my closest relatives, we do not see each other a lot. They're a large group with a large extended family. They see each other all the time. And I am like this lefty city cousin who occasionally comes into their midst and I am the outsider. And the last time there was open hostility from the extended my beautiful, lovely cousins are not part of that, but they are with it and within it. So I do not know what they actually feel.

[B]

Can, can I ask, Nancy, within that group, is there an individual or two that you feel could be most open to having a meaningful, thoughtful conversation that does go into politics? Like, do you, do you see a person who's like that one could do it with me. That comes to mind.

[D]

Only the children, like we all have Gen Z kids and their Gen Z kids are probably would be in that as far as I imagine. But also the other thing about my family is they're very, very, very religious, wrapped up in their the Christian fundamental thing. So there's also a lot of proselytizing and it all gets wrapped up and it's a big mishigos, as you say. It's a mess.

[A]

May I say something that I love having very religious friends of any religion. I have evangelical friends. I love their belief in the afterlife. I love their beliefs in many areas. I'm grateful that they have them. They are dear friends of mine and I cherish the relationship. What I wish for you, me, everyone at every holiday table, whether it's Thanksgiving, Rosh Hashanah, Passover, Christmas, Easter, I wish wherever we go, school meetings, anywhere that we are engaged with people in our community with polar opposite points of view. This is the best opportunity to practice being human beings and kind and as I love the phrase and practicing deep listening to and with each other, not necessarily agreeing, not giving up your opinion, but practicing. We need to live together with our fellow countrymen. We need to get along and not make war with each other. Look at where they're making war. It's not Working, Dad. It's not.

[B]

These are great ideas and it's aspirational and these are great thoughts. But how much time are you putting towards actually being in the room with people of very different thoughts?

[A]

I don't have that many opportunities.

[B]

But you're not seeking them out.

[A]

I do have. I just said my evangelical friends. I seek out and I nurture that relationship and I need to do more. And so there are opportunities. And I think we should look for those opportunities and try to encourage them.

[B]

I agree.

[C]

I. This is where.

[A]

Because that's how the country needs to heal.

[C]

Excuse me. One of the things we need to do, Nancy and I have no idea how to do this. I can't argue with the person that thinks the world is flat. You know, Moynihan said everybody has a right to their own opinions. Nobody has a right to their own facts.

[A]

Right.

[C]

So I'm wondering if there's one subject with a Gen Z cousin of yours or somebody, if you wanted to bring it up. Lots of MAGA people are very upset with ICE and the brutality and illegality of just picking their neighbors off.

[B]

Starting with the topic that there is commonality.

[C]

Starting with the topic that you may have some comfort about or. Wow. Anybody surprised about Medicaid or anybody know a farmer that didn't expect to be screwed by this? You know, if you start with a specific issue that you might find common ground in. You know, I wrote to my MAGA friend and I said, I'm sorry, but I just have to tell you, I. I hate this bill, this budget, this big, beautiful, ugliest, cruelest thing ever made. And she wrote back and said, I hate it, too, but probably for not the right reasons, as you. Okay, that's fine. You know. Okay. They're a very religious group. This country was founded on religious freedom for all. Do any of your Christian family have a problem with the Christian right sort of dominating what they feel are the values of the country? Or do they think it's unchristian for masked people to just be taking a lot of legal people, a lot of people that are here working and aren't criminals and haven't done anything wrong, off the streets and sending them God knows where?

[A]

We could write the script. We know what a lot of these other side points of view are going to say, and they know what we're going to say. But I want to be in the same room with them. I want to be in the place that Nancy is questioning the difficulty of that experience.

[B]

And I believe. I believe that feeling is genuine. I Think when it gets hard is when it goes from an idea to, you know, a lot of what MAGA or Trump supporters represent to us are like extremely violent, racist, sexist ideas. And it's one thing to say that.

[A]

I'm okay with that.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[B]

So that's a lot of it.

[A]

You're not invited to my dinner table.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're gonna be violent, sexist or racist in my face, you will be asked to leave.

[B]

So a lot of people out there would say, then, if you're a supporter of Trump, you're not invited to my dinner table because they see him as a person who has given a green flag to all this stuff. So I think it's one idea to say we wanna be in conversation with each other. It's another to say, how do you deal with. With somebody who is your family, who you love, who you want to cultivate a relationship when they are actively saying or supporting somebody who is spreading racist, sexist, violent laws, ideals, rhetoric, and changing the culture towards that?

[A]

You remember that you say this to yourself. Don't oversimplify. It is not simple. It is complex. I have Republican friends who voted not for Trump, but for Republican historical ideologies that their family has passed down through.

[B]

But they voted for Trump.

[A]

But they voted for Trump because he represents those familial, historical ideologies that they aren't against, that they do like. And so it isn't so simple to just kitchen sink everything in one package. I understand if you vote for this, then you're getting the whole kitchen sink. But I care about my friends, my fellow Americans, who have voted differently than I voted. I do not agree with them on xyz, but I do agree with them on some of the ABCs as well. So it's a mixed bag. It is not simple. This world and these issues and these problems are extremely complex and I don't have the answers. But I am willing, if given the opportunity, to sit there until you either enrage me or offend me so greatly that we can't sit at the same table. But if we walk away from the table, we lose. So I have a dilemma.

[C]

Well, we've got to find the table.

[B]

I don't disagree. Nancy, let me ask you a question. You mentioned that you want to not alienate yourself from this part of your family.

[D]

Right.

[B]

Can you tell us a little bit more about why it's so important for you to maintain this connection? Because I.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[D]

Well, just.

[B]

You want to know, because a lot of people. Yeah.

[D]

Well, this is the These are the people, these are the cousins and the aunt and uncle who are my father's family. The last remaining person in my father's generation, my 94 year old aunt and uncle. And the kids. And the kids, well, kids were all in our 60s but the kids, we grew up together, we spent a lot of time together and we went on vacations, you know, crazy road trips and trailers to spider filled cabins in Vermont and stuff like that. And we loved each other and so that they're the only people I have left that are part of that like so those are my memories with them and those are the things I cling to when I see see them but I don't get to see them, just them. It's always in a larger setting and then it's me and 47 people who are on the other side.

[B]

Could you tell them that you want to see them alone? Could you find a way to make space and carve that out?

[D]

I've been trying to do that for years. I've been trying to do it for years. I've been trying. I can separate all of these things because I know them to be. These are people who would give you the shirt off their back. They are kind, they help people. And so I didn't care before when I knew that they were voting Republican because you know, the Republican party was the party of the white guys in suits who looked after the money and that was, that was the way it used to be. And now I'm looking back to the last arguments we had were, you know, the George Bush era. And I mean that seems quaint to me now.

[C]

I know, doesn't it?

[D]

Yeah. They lied about weapons of mass destruction but they didn't try to dismantle the Constitution.

[C]

Yeah, right. I know, it's amazing in comparison. We thought that was as bad as it could get. I want to suggest something. There is an organization, Nancy, called Better Angels. Have you heard of it at all? No, it's out of Bard College and I think probably if you googled you'd find quite a few. There are organizations around dealing with exactly what you're struggling with. Getting people of unlike minds together and giving you tools to facilitate understanding each other, finding commonality. And it might behoove you just to look up Better Angels, see where else it it turns you to and can give you some ideas of how to.

[A]

I'm imagining, I'm imagining. Thank you hun. I'm imagining myself at your dinner table. You can see my head is in my hands. It would be at your dinner Table. I do not have faith that the different opinions are going to find that much common ground in these areas. So I need to stand up at the table and say, I love you all. We have incredible history together. Going to go to the other room and read a book or play with the kids for a while. Let me know when this political discussion stops and then I'd love to come back and talk about things we all love talking about, play games we used to play and have some fun. But if this discussion is going to be going on all night like this, then I love you all and I guess I won't see you for the rest of the evening. And I'm dead serious about that, because I can't. I don't expect to change people's passionate opinions about the specific political questions and I do expect to get people that are not engaged in the process engaged and ignite their participation in our democracy. That is how I operate and where I'll put my energy. And I wish I could be at your table, but you've seen me, I put myself at your table. You see how my head goes in my hands when you're just talking about.

[B]

It without a bunch of family?

[A]

Yeah. There's nobody here and there's no fucking turkey on the table or my mom's stuffing. So, you know, it's an aggravating situation, but it's not aggravating to be with memories of growing up and playing games and being with the people you love right there at that moment. My Buddhist brother in law says, you know, be in this moment right here and if we can't get along on this, then let's just stop and let's have fun with something that we do get along with. Enjoy the meal, enjoy each other's company, enjoy the kids and go play with the kids.

[C]

Yeah, Nancy, just know you're not alone. I'm sorry, we can't be at your table.

[B]

Nancy, let us know if you find any success in this process because you are not alone, as you well know. And we'd love to. We'd love to hear if anything feels like it works or it moves the needle.

[D]

Thank you, man. Thank you, Katherine.

[C]

Bye bye. We're in this together.

[A]

Thanks for calling.

[B]

Okay, our next email comes from Vicky and she wrote, I adore your videos and have been a huge fan for decades. My question, do you two have a song you feel represents your love and or a song you love to dance to? Thanks, Vicki.

[C]

I know the song that represents It Takes Two from Into the woods by Stephen Sondheim which is a musical song. And I did learn it perfectly.

[A]

Perfect pitch, every word.

[C]

She learned it for dad's 60th birthday. That I sang in front of you and Isaac and Dad in a restaurant. We don't date.

[B]

I tried to help you learn that song as a surprise for him. And we spent many blocks walking down Amsterdam Avenue just getting one line.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

You know, Joe, it takes two. That one was enough. It's not true. And you could not do it walking five miles. And I thought. I thought, oh, this is impossible. But then you stayed with it and somehow changed the shape of your brain and you got it.

[C]

I know.

[A]

Made her a tape. One finger on the piano, and she always claimed she couldn't sing. Everybody made fun of her. She listened to that tape, that one finger, piano. She got it. Perfect pitch, every word. I'm telling you, if she can do it, anybody can do it.

[C]

That's true. I mean, but it's very funny. I'm not. I don't sing in the shower. I don't sing to music. I. I've lost generations worth of great performers. I just. I don't listen to music.

[A]

What does that mean, you lost generations of.

[C]

I mean. I mean, my friend Zach Berkman, who runs People's Life, told me how he was moved by hearing Jane Sibery's song. I can't even remember the name. And Laurie Anderson's.

[A]

Oh, you mean great performances you've missed just.

[C]

Just hearing the culture's songs. I don't listen. I don't sing along to it. I don't dance to it. It's a real deficit that I'm trying to correct in my last third.

[A]

Yeah, don't go to that guy who.

[C]

Sings those show tunes.

[A]

You know that guy.

[B]

But that's the song that comes to mind for both of you. It takes two.

[C]

But we don't have a song that we dance to because also, I'm not a good dancer, and Dad's a great, great dancer, so.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I've seen you dance. I find it pretty entertaining.

[C]

Yeah, well, entertaining is different than being a good dancer. I mean, I. I can dance by myself, weirdly, but dad and I. I mean, every time we try and dance, he whispers in my ear, stop leading, stop leading, stop leading.

[B]

Why don't you let your wife lead?

[A]

I do.

[C]

Oh, okay. Yeah. So, Vicki, that's. It takes two. Look it up. It's a great song.

[A]

I don't know if that's the song I'd choose. I just don't know.

[C]

Tender Song?

[A]

No. God, no. I don't know. I have so many songs that I think are so wonderful that I think happy little bluebirds fly why, oh, why can't we.

[B]

Does that.

[A]

I think over the Rainbow is universally one of the great wishes for human beings ever, anywhere.

[B]

But do you. Does that song connect to you and mom in particular?

[A]

Yeah, it's the same, you know. Why o, why can't we fly? Why can't we be free and be a bluebird in the sky? Why can't we have that freedom? I don't care how much freedom. I do care. We have freedom in this country. Other places don't. I certainly want those people. I certainly want those people who have no freedom and are struggling so much right now to have it. They're at the top of my list. But we need it too. You know, I'm about my own struggles for that freedom and desire to fly.

[B]

Our good friend Shiraka, who fled Kabul in Afghanistan, heard Somewhere over the Rainbow. And he'd never heard it before while he was kind of in transit from Afghanistan to the US and he was so blown away by those words. You know, he was in his early 20s and he was like, I couldn't believe that song. And he said, please, when, you know, when we get together in the States, can you sing that? And I just love that. Somebody discovering that for the first time in their 20s while they're fleeing.

[C]

While they're fleeing. It has a whole different thing.

[B]

Yeah. All this hardship. Yeah, I know.

[A]

And Yip Harburg and Harold Ireland wrote it as an ode to their parents struggle, leaving the pogroms of Poland and Hitler's Germany to bring a new life and become immigrants in this country, to bring new life to themselves and their children and grandchildren and future generations. That's why they wrote that song as an ode to their parents journey and struggles.

[B]

I love that. So we're at our last little part of our little Hang Time segment, and I have a question here. Since we're in the Thanksgiving season of gratitude and all that, I was curious, what's one thing you hated in the past that now you are grateful for?

[A]

Ask the question again. What's the.

[B]

Is there something that you used to hate but now you feel very grateful for?

[A]

Liver. Liver. Sauteed liver.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

From what's the restaurant? Orso's on 45th street in the Broadway district.

[D]

6.

[A]

They make 46th street in the Broadway district. The restaurant. They make the greatest thin pounded sauteed liver with onions that I have ever had. In my life. I've read articles about it. I know you can have too much of it, but I also know it's good for you. And I go there for. That's like my candy store.

[B]

And you used to hate liver.

[A]

I used to hate it. It was the only. We had to eat everything in my house growing up. You had to clean your plate. I mean, you didn't get punished, but that was the rule. Except my mother made a different dish for me. If they made liver, two things, liver or pickled tongue. I didn't have to eat the pickled tongue, which really disgusted me. But I gagged on the liver and so I was allowed to have something else instead of Liverpool. When she made liver for the family. And now I love it.

[B]

And how do you think it shifted? Just, you kept tripping.

[A]

Well, first of all, it's the way this guy prepared it. Some sort of French preparation. I forget it says it in the menu. It's just extremely tasty. And you, I took you there.

[B]

I didn't know what you were going on about. And I took one bite of that liver and I went, oh, that's a pretty good daddy.

[A]

And I've. And I've gone other places. It's not the same. Yeah. And so they're not going to tell me how. And so. But. But I sure remember the change. How can I love it so much when I literally couldn't even hear the word when I was a kid?

[B]

That's great.

[C]

I was really freaked out when my hair started turning gray and did not feel I was at all. It was all appropriate for me to have gray hair.

[B]

How old were you when that started?

[C]

Probably in my 60s. And dad would follow me to my little hair dye place, this wonderful woman Beth, and yell at me and tell me he thought, you know, that I thought it looked natural and it didn't. And I would say I'm not old enough to have white hair. And now I am. And I must say I prefer this white hair color than my other. Either natural color or my great expense of time and effort pretend color.

[A]

I think she is so beautiful. Anyone who has the video on right now, you can see how beautiful she is. You can see. Don't fuck around with me. You can see how her skin and her hair tone complement each other. How her hair enlightens her skin. Almost like she has, you know, magic lighting on it. Like magic light. You know, the. When the sun set, that magic light. And the other thing that mom is. Thank God, not done. And you know, I understand people do it. But please, please, to all the women of the world, leave your faces alone. Please don't operate on them and change them. And even men do it, too. As our friend said, this is the map of my life. Enjoy and share the map of your life. Don't freeze it so that your face doesn't move so we can't see your expressions. Get older. It's a great thing that you do. You're beautiful. You get more beautiful when Katharine Hepburn and Diane Keaton have left their faces alone. Two of the most beautiful women in the world on the screen that I can think of. My wife is gorgeous. You're gorgeous out there. Please, please, leave yourselves alone.

[B]

And maybe if. If men around the world stop making women feel so shitty about the way they look and they age, then it would be a little easier for them to do so.

[C]

I. I'm sorry. But I am proud of raising a son who can express that feeling. And thank you. Not that it was up to me, but I did want to raise great feminist feelings.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Then get your shit together and do what Gideon says.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Listen to Gid. Don't listen to us, listen to Gideon.

[B]

That's all the time we've got for this week, folks.

[A]

Oh, no. It's not over, is it?

[B]

That's our other family member.

[C]

Yeah. Who we've let out, just screaming.

[B]

He only speaks every 10 episodes.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Fortunately. Fortunately, he's only contracted to speak once.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Everybody. Five seasons.

[C]

Yeah. So don't worry, you're the first and.

[B]

The last you'll be hearing from him. Thanks so much for tuning in. We want to hear from you. More questions, things you're grateful for, you know, whatever. Card tricks. Card tricks. Send us some recipes. Send us the audio only of some card tricks you do. Stories, advice for us. You can send an email to askmandyandcatherinemail.com or check out our socials for an easy way to send us a voice note. And let's be perfectly clear, don't listen to us.

[C]

Particularly don't listen to us today or whatever.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[B]

Don't Listen to Us is a Lemonada Media original hosted by Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Created by Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Executive producers are Kathryn Grody, Gideon Grody Paninkin, Mandy Podinkin, Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles Wax. Our engineer is Ryan Derringer of Welterweight Sound video and audio production by Mark Whiteway of Bellows Media. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Media Premium yet, now's the perfect time. You can hear Don't Listen to us completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like behind the scenes conversations, questions so weird they didn't make it on air, Becky the Dog shenanigans, and more. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple podcasts. Head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app, or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.

[A]

Com.

[B]

Don't miss out.