The Awkward Phase of Dating No One Talks About

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

Don't Listen To Us with Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody
Episode: "The Awkward Phase of Dating No One Talks About"
Date: February 18, 2026
Host: Lemonada Media
Featured: Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody, Gideon Grody Patinkin
Special Guest: Tynan Davis

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Episode Overview

This episode finds the Patinkin-Grody family dispensing their signature blend of humor, candor, and gentle chaos while tackling real listener dilemmas. The main theme revolves around vulnerability and intimacy in relationships—both romantic (the infamous “bathroom issue” in early dating) and familial (grief and missing a lost parent’s support). Two listener questions prompt heartfelt, (often hilarious) personal stories and thoughtful advice. With Kathryn’s depth, Mandy’s brash warmth, and Gideon’s moderating touch, the family examines why we struggle with basic humanity—and how we might open up.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family Banter & Kathryn’s Show Reflections

[00:28 – 14:06]

• The episode opens with playful family sparring about conversational styles and interruptions, setting a tone of honesty and endearment.
  • Quote (Kathryn, 00:28): “I had had a discussion with my husband in the car yesterday about what I think is a conversation versus what he thinks is a conversation.”
  • Gideon jokes about presidential debate-style interruptions; everyone admits to being talkative and interruptive.
• Kathryn opens up about the end of her recent solo show and the emotions it stirred, particularly the empowerment from forced independence and receiving community empathy.
  • Quote (Kathryn, 06:08): “They just wanted to talk about how to be human and how to be in a community and how to be seen, you know?”
  • Mandy and Gideon extol the show’s impact and urge listeners to see it.

2. Listener Question: The Awkward Bathroom Phase in New Relationships

[14:06 – 23:11]

• David’s question: How do you navigate the “bathroom issue” in a new relationship—when you’re so uncomfortable you can’t go at your partner’s place?
  • David’s funny, self-aware letter sparks laughter and recognition.
  • Quote (David, as read by Kathryn, 14:20): “It's gotten to the point where I'm half in love and half constipated. So my question is: how do new couples navigate the bathroom issue without killing the romance or their internal organs?”
• Family’s responses:
  • Kathryn candidly admits she only recently farted in front of Mandy, reflecting deep-seated embarrassment.
    • Quote (Kathryn, 16:02): “I don't think I passed gas in front of my husband until just recently because I just felt it was so…”
  • They debate whether openness about bathroom needs is achievable early on versus after real intimacy forms.
  • Gideon tells a story about a tough "Hell’s Angels" type carrying baby wipes for self-care—upending stereotypes about masculinity and vulnerability.
    • Quote (Mandy, 20:22): “I love the story about the Hell’s Angels guy really taking care of his asshole and treating it like the holy vessel and place that it is.”
  • Kathryn and Mandy muse on how American puritanical attitudes inflame this shame, especially for women.
  • Advice is both practical and empathetic:
    • Talk openly with your partner; ask for privacy or distraction (e.g., music in the bathroom).
    • Quote (Mandy, 22:08): “You could say you have an odd habit of playing music loudly on your phone whenever you go to the bathroom…and maybe music with a lot of percussion could also help mask whatever your body’s doing.”
  • Emphasis is on choosing honesty at a pace comfortable to each couple.

3. Listener Question & Live Call: Grieving a Parent, Being Your Own Cheerleader

[23:38 – 43:59]

• Tynan Davis’ question (voice note): She celebrates submitting her first Playbill bio but feels a surge of grief missing her biggest cheerleader—her mother, who passed away 13 years ago. She asks: “How do you manage being your own best cheerleader when your best cheerleader isn’t around?”
  • Quote (Tynan, 24:20): “And I'm yet so sad, because the one person that I really want to share it with who would be excited is my mom. And she passed away 13 years ago. And I know that the grief that I feel is directly correlated to the piles and piles of love.”
• Conversation with Tynan:
  • Kathryn relates with a powerful story about wanting to call her late mother after her own Broadway debut; she reflects on how rituals (like mentally inviting loved ones into the theater) keep a parent’s support alive.
    • Quote (Kathryn, 29:41): “I do a ritual before every show, and it’s a way of me bringing in my mom and dad... I see them hanging from a beam or... looking at me, and I just talk to them…”
  • Mandy offers a poignant piece of theater wisdom:
    • Quote (Mandy quoting “Carousel,” 31:21): “As long as there’s one person on earth who remembers you, it isn’t over.”
  • Gideon describes his daily prayer ritual, listing loved ones’ names to keep them present.
  • Tynan describes her mother’s celebratory energy—jumping up and down and clapping, uninhibited—and her drive to honor her mother’s legacy each time she performs.
  • The family reaffirms the power of ritual, memory, and embodiment as healing and sustaining.
  • Advice themes:
    • Invent personal rituals to honor the deceased.
    • Allow yourself to feel grief as the flip side of deep love.
    • Recognize that missing someone is a sign of a relationship worth cherishing.
    • Become your own “cheerleader” by internalizing their support.
  • Quote (Kathryn, 41:10): “We are all so lucky if we were given the gift of having a parent that we miss. I think there is nothing sadder than a person being here and leaving without anybody missing them or caring and no connection.”
• Meta-Moment: Gideon flips the question, asking Tynan for advice on what to do while his parents are still living: - Quote (Tynan, 42:15): “I think that's the thing that I... I didn't ask them. I didn't know what questions to ask. I didn't ask enough questions... I feel like it's really beautiful that you're doing that—and that you've modeled that for a lot of people.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I'm half in love and half constipated...”
  — David’s email, read by Kathryn Grody (14:20)
• “I don't think I passed gas in front of my husband until just recently...”
  — Kathryn Grody (16:02)
• “I love the story about the Hell’s Angels guy really taking care of his asshole and treating it like the holy vessel and place that it is.”
  — Mandy Patinkin (20:22)
• “As long as there's one person on earth who remembers you, it isn't over.”
  — Mandy Patinkin, quoting Oscar Hammerstein ("Carousel") (31:21)
• “We are all so lucky if we were given the gift of having a parent that we miss...”
  — Kathryn Grody (41:10)
• Tynan's advice to those with living parents:
  “I didn't ask enough questions... I feel like it’s really beautiful that you're doing that—and that you've modeled that for a lot of people.” (42:15)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:28 – 04:18: Family conversational banter & Kathryn’s reading habits
• 04:25 – 10:22: Kathryn’s post-show reflections & impact stories
• 14:06 – 23:11: Listener question on bathroom anxiety in new relationships + family’s responses and advice
• 23:38 – 43:59: Tynan Davis’ voicemail and live call—managing grief and making room for lost loved ones as an artist
• 29:41 – 34:47: Rituals of remembrance and the specifics of performing as a “swing” in opera
• 36:21 – 39:40: On being your own cheerleader and sustaining through performance anxiety
• 42:02 – 43:17: Tynan’s parting advice and the importance of asking questions while parents are alive
• 43:34 – end: Goodbyes and (humorously) refusing gifts of pasta and sweets

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Tone and Language

The tone is warm, open, self-deprecating, and infused with playful argument. The family’s intimacy is coupled with a willingness to discuss “taboo” topics (bodily functions, death, missing loved ones) with both humor and tenderness. They model vulnerability and invite the listener into their ongoing, improvisational family conversation.

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Final Takeaways

• Intimacy requires vulnerability—sometimes in the most unglamorous ways.
• Openness (even about awkward things) deepens trust in relationships.
• Rituals and remembrance can keep loved ones alive in spirit and embolden us to keep going, especially in creative work.
• Grief is the cost of love, and The willingness to miss someone is a sign of a relationship well lived.
• Ask questions of your loved ones while you can—you’ll never regret knowing them more deeply.

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone grappling with the messiness of human connection, both in romance and family—and offers warm, practical wisdom about sharing what’s hard, loving what’s real, and laughing through it all.

Transcript

[Tynan Davis]

Foreignada.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You can hear every episode of Don't Listen to Us ad free with Lemonada Premium. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's Lemonada Premium.

[Kathryn Grody]

It's very funny, because I had had a discussion with my husband in the car yesterday about what I think is a conversation versus what he thinks is a conversation.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What was that about?

[Kathryn Grody]

That was about, you know, what is interrupting and what is an actual conversation where you go back and forth and not just I give a monologue and then you give a monologue back. But we.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, but why did it come up? Do you remember?

[Kathryn Grody]

Because you always think I'm interrupting you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, because you speak in an endless stream, okay? And you say things that are very interesting or need a response, and you don't give a pause. So I have to interrupt. So otherwise I can't.

[Kathryn Grody]

I feel the same about him. But anyway, that note is well taken, and it is really good.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You both do that.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. Well, you gotta just say, okay, because if somebody says something and you want to. Have you ever watched the presidential debate? Excuse me? He mentioned my name. I need to.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Right?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I need to, you know, respond to that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Wait, are you saying. Are you trying to model your conversation style after presidential debates?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, I'm just bringing that up as an example of. I'm not the only one. Nor is your mother.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Who does that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Who does that anyway?

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's a great point.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You're welcome. Were you interrupting me just now, Gideon?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I might have been. I guess it's hereditary. Dad, your beard is.

[Kathryn Grody]

It's the thing.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's really big.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

This is about five months. I'm doing it for a movie. If the movie's made, it'll be 10 months worth of growth when we start filming.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Right?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And that's what the director wanted. Although it may end up being cut, you know, shorter once we see it. But he wanted the option.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Does it feel like a friend?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, I don't feel it, except when the side hair, this part, which I'm trying now to, like, pay us, pull behind my ear because that'll, like, curl over and tickle my ears. And then sometimes it tickles me down here and I feel something's crawling up me. Like, I worry about tick because we live in the country. Tics. But now it's getting long enough around the ears where pretty much I can get it behind my ear. Like pay us. Or like women do with their hair.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, that's exciting.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It is. Very exciting. I'm. I'm enjoying it. It seems to be a conversation piece.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We should, we should tell people what show this is. Welcome to. Don't listen to us. The podcast that you shouldn't listen to and don't listen to.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So good. I'm Gideon.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm Katherine.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm Gideon.

[Kathryn Grody]

No, you're not.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You're Mandy and I have some.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We have in me 13 chromosomes.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes, that's true.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think I have some Mandy.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, it goes like that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I don't know if we quite have the IQ to figure this out.

[Kathryn Grody]

You know, it's going down. It's going down. Did you read that? Did you see that amazing article in New York magazine, of all things, the stupiding of the American. American mind?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, well, I didn't need to read an article to know that.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, yeah, that's true.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So you're judging it based on our family?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I feel that in myself.

[Kathryn Grody]

I. I feel it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We haven't, we haven't talked in a little while.

[Kathryn Grody]

No.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm just curious. How do you feel that I have gone down IQ wise?

[Kathryn Grody]

I actually don't feel you have, hun. I'm really talking about myself and the entire world and the country. Yes, I have.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You haven't.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, that's.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, because you feel you don't read as much as you.

[Kathryn Grody]

I don't read as much as I used to and it's driving me crazy. And I've got to start practic today. Not just sleeping with books, but actually read the ones that are surrounding me.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I just walk with them. It feels sufficient.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We haven't talked on the podcast since you finished your run of your show.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, it was so incredible.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It was pretty great.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It was beyond great. Catherine, don't you know you're sad because you're not doing it.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, I really am.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But you'll get it will come around theaters. I believe it has an incredible life in theaters like Malvern, Pennsylvania, the Goodman Theater in Chicago, theaters all over the country that have intimate spaces and deserve this extraordinary piece that you wrote. And I'm telling you, I just wish anybody who's listening to this, I pray anybody who's listening to this gets an opportunity to see it. I think it's the absolute greatest contribution mom has made. Don't interrupt me now.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm sorry, don't interrupt me.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Let me ask you a question.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Wait a minute, you're both interrupting me. The greatest contribution your mother has made since birthing Isaac and Gideon.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's very sweet.

[Kathryn Grody]

It's Very nice, honey, but you are my mate, so who's gonna really believe that?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom, let me ask you, you got emotional. What's that feeling?

[Kathryn Grody]

I, you know, I have a tremendous amount of trouble taking care of myself or doing what I need to do when I'm with people I love, like my family. So being in Malvern and absolutely knowing nobody and just doing this show six or seven times a week gave me a structure where I was forced to just take care of myself. And I just loved doing this piece. The people were so responsive. I've never done a piece where they talk back to me or they, you know, they'll say, ooh, ah, yeah, oh, I know.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Or something.

[Kathryn Grody]

And there were 80 people that stayed for the talkbacks because young and old people, they just wanted to talk about how to be human and how to be in a community and how to be seen, you know?

[Mandy Patinkin]

And can you share what the play was about for people who don't know yet?

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, it's got kind of a long title. It was called the Unexpected, a radical, rollicking rumination on the optimism of staying alive. And I kept adjusting it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And it's because you were losing your own optimism.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, yeah. I mean, it's just a rebuttal to the cliches of how this culture treats people with white hair or age in general, how it makes young people afraid of becoming older. You know, it doesn't encourage you at all. And it's kind of a rebuttal about that cliche and encouragement to always be unfinished. That was sort of my, I thought, biggest plea.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

Is never to, you know, whether you're doing the same job you've done for 50 years or not. You're just never finished becoming and having new experiences and changing your mind about points of view and being open to new people and ideas, and also mainly to practice despair, which is the opposite of despair, and it's recovery from hopelessness.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And you taught us a 15th century word.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes, that's right. It's from. Yeah, it's from the 1500s. And I got it from Morgan Janess Bere. Right. That was what Morgan Janess, a fabulous, brilliant dramaturg and human, wanted to bring back.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Did you have a favorite part of the entire experience or a favorite moment? Oh, I know. A moment I loved was I was coming down to see the show and I had an extra ticket and it was sold out because you sold out the whole run because you're.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It did 180%.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So I had an extra ticket and I was gonna return it to the box office. And I asked my friends who live in Philly, I said, do you know anybody in Philly who might enjoy a ticket to the show? And they both lit up.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

They said, Doris.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And Doris was a 93 year old woman. They just met by stumbling into her artist studio and seeing her paintings. And we called her up and invited her to your show. She was very confused what this invitation was. My friend Jenna and Maggie said, this is our friend Gideon. His mom's doing a show. You know, he'll come to your condo, pick you up, drive you out to the theater, drive you back home anyway.

[Kathryn Grody]

And her children had to vet you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes. I talked to, I think her daughter in law to let her know I was not some scammer kidnapping her. And I drove an hour to pick her up. Drove an hour to the theater.

[Kathryn Grody]

Unbelievable.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Had an amazing time with her. 93 years old, drove an hour home. And now we're great buds.

[Kathryn Grody]

And also I have an incredible son that would go to that effort to do that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I did that in part because that's what you. That's the kind of thing you would do.

[Kathryn Grody]

I also want to say, you know, dad, I don't think you've ever seen a show of mine four times. And what I was very interested in, I used to never want to know when dad was there or you were there. I was worried I'd be too nervous and wanting to do well and do badly.

[Tynan Davis]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

And I just loved knowing when you both were there this time.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We loved the show.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We're your biggest fans. Well tied with a lot of people.

[Kathryn Grody]

Thank you. Yeah, it was great. I'm very happy.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Did you hear what Timmy was so shocked. Mom's director, Timmy near was just shocked.

[Mandy Patinkin]

About Timmy near, who did an amazing job.

[Kathryn Grody]

My director, Timothy Year, was so nervous because she was sure she'd get notes from dad.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Because she did, like 30 years ago.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. And she never recovered.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And you knew better.

[Kathryn Grody]

This time he didn't have any.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I never said a word. I just kept coming and applauding and loving it and weeping and weeping.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, sir.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Weeping.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, that's what I do. I'm a professional weeper.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Really.

[Kathryn Grody]

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[Mandy Patinkin]

We're going to go on to our first listener question today. Okay, this is from David, and I've got his email here. And mom, if you could read David's email for us, that would be great.

[Kathryn Grody]

Dear Catherine and Mandy, first let me say I adore you both. So nice. Your honesty, your humor, and the way you somehow make life's weirdest moments feel like a group hug. So naturally, when I found myself in an intensely awkward new relationship predicament, I thought it was. These are the people I need to ask about bodily functions and romance. Here's the thing. I have a friend who cannot, under any circumstance, use the bathroom when staying over at her boyfriend's place. Like. Like she'd rather spontaneously combust than risk him hearing a single flush or, heaven forbid, a sound effect. At first I laughed at her, and then I started seeing someone new. And suddenly I'm the one holding in my dignity and my digestive system until I get home. It's gotten point where I'm half in love and half constipated. So my question is, how do new couples navigate the bathroom issue without killing the romance or their internal organs? When do you stop pretending you're an ethereal being who doesn't, you know, digest food? Please help. My heart is open. My colon is not. Lovingly mortified. David, that's great. Oh, my God.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I fear that we're gonna get a future email that David has died from implosion.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, isn't it? I just find it. I mean, it's just so true. Why? The question, to me, David, is we.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Have a friend like this.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes, we do. But why? Why are we so mortified by our human, you know, behaviors that are totally normal?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mommy.

[Kathryn Grody]

I mean, we are. I am. I don't think I pass gas in front of my husband until just recently because I just felt it was so.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't tell me that you didn't really.

[Kathryn Grody]

I didn't really, Honey, no, that was. I always pretend if that actually happens at somebody else. Now we have grandchildren. We're making them not be embarrassed about.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, they pointed out, gramps, that was you.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, that's right. And then you deny it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Wait, but you recently crossed this threshold.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, in private with Dad, I mean, I think the thing to do is tell your new romantic partner how you feel. And your friend. I mean, I mean, you know, whatever's happening with your friend and her person, she's like, totally not being present because she's just totally self conscious about not making any sounds that would make her.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Seem less sad or even using the bathroom.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, that one is an odd one. We do have a friend like that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think that's what he's saying though.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

She will not use the bathroom at somebody's.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, that's very strange. What is that? I know, but why doesn't she just share with this person, if she's intimate with him, that she's very self conscious and can he go in the kitchen while she uses the bathroom?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I got a little advice.

[Kathryn Grody]

Okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

There was a guy I worked with on Criminal Minds. I can't remember his name was a big tall guy who was a prop guy, like a motorcycle guy, like a Hell's Angels guy. I think he was a Hell's Angels guy. And he carried around. So he was a real tough guy. But he carried around a little thing of wet wets, you know, like wet nappy things like you clean a baby's bum with when you change the diaper. Because two reasons. They, they. He. He felt that toilet paper would really bruise, you know, his, his butt, you know, like, you know, like, you know, too, too much rubbing of paper.

[Kathryn Grody]

Friction.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Friction. I don't know what the word is, but mess up his asshole. Yeah, so he was worried about that. So he carried this, you know, because it was just gentle. It was like gentle like on a baby. They were from babies.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So you can, so you can have that to just have, you know, nicer. But. But you can also use the paper if you're paranoid about the seat. You know, you can wipe off the seat with one of these papers.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Great advice for somebody who's concerned about cleanliness or the constitution of their.

[Kathryn Grody]

But this is a person that doesn't want to.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Doesn't want to be heard or doesn't want anyone to.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, it's just the sounds that the.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Person was saying and fear that a romantic partner will be less romantic of them taking a shit in their home, you know.

[Kathryn Grody]

Isn't it weird though, these people are sleeping together, I'm assuming. So she's not self conscious about exchange of bodily, you know, organs, let alone.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's what happens.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Dad's can't talk about this stuff. On.

[Kathryn Grody]

Okay. I just think. I think it would be part of intimacy for either of these people to confess to their romantic partners is I'm a little bit weird and self conscious about this aspect of being human. So will you go in another room if I use the bathroom or. Let me just tell you that and get over it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think that's theoretically nice for maybe a relationship that's been going on for a while, But I can't imagine somebody saying that to somebody. You're what you see for the first new. Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

So what would you do?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I would go into an immersion program where it's just people taking shits right next to people.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

This is the end of weeks. This is the end of this podcast. Whole idea of this podcast there was. I looked. It showed up online that it shows, like, what the podcast or the next podcast is, or it sort of gives a little blurb on what our podcast might be discussing. Like, you know, today is going to be about Abraham Lincoln or something. And one of them said farts. You know that we wrote that. Great. So now. Now this is the second one. This is the second one that is in the same zone. Why would anyone tune in to listen to us? Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What do all people all over the world have in common? We all get born, we all die, and we all.

[Kathryn Grody]

Bodily function.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, God.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But I do want to say, though, this is. I love the story about the Hells Angels guy really taking care of his asshole and treating it like the holy vessel and place that it is. And I think we could all do better to treat all of our holes with great tenderness and care.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, one of the things I like about that image is, is it really confronts assumptions you make about people. That's right, because what is it?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What is what? What. What is the assumption? What is it confronting?

[Kathryn Grody]

It confronts how one thinks in a stereotypical way. If I saw a big, huge, you know, Hell's angel motorcycle guy, I wouldn't assume he carried around, you know, little gentle baby wipes for his tush. And so that's kind of interesting that you can't make assumptions about people. And we're all screwed up about bodily function in this country, particularly because the damn puritans.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But don't you agree that it's particularly worse with women? I mean, men, you know, we fart and we laugh.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We piss anywhere. We get out of the car and piss in front of the whole family.

[Kathryn Grody]

I do think it's harder. I do think women. I do think women have a harder time and have been taught to not be comfortable with anything that can be interpreted as, you know, not feminine or attractive.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So for progress right here, right now, would you want. Do you want to fart?

[Kathryn Grody]

I don't really, honey. I don't need to. I don't have that ability. But if I ever do, I'm not sure If I would share that with, you know, whoever is listening and watching. But I might say, oh, this is one of those moments where I'm. I mean, really, do I want to share that? I do think it's a private, public thing, and I understand.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's one of the longest discussions we've had about us.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God, there's editing. David, good luck.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But actually, I do have one other thought. If you didn't want to talk about your discomfort with going to the bathroom, you could say that you have an odd habit of playing music loudly on your phone whenever you go to the bathroom, and that could mask any sort of bodily function sound. And maybe music with a lot of percussion could also help mask whatever your body's.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You know what I do sometimes, because the bathroom's right off my studio, I either turn the water on real loud and waste water, which is a bad thing to do, or I ask the person to go in another room, because I literally say, I don't like people hear me go. Going to the bathroom. So go to. Go to the living room. I'll be back in five.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Great.

[Kathryn Grody]

I think music is a really good idea.

[Mandy Patinkin]

All right, David, we have given you just a plethora of incredible ideas that will immediately solve this problem for you and your people and everyone in the world.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, probably.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And thank you. Please let us know how you fare in the future.

[Kathryn Grody]

And you have such a great sense of humor, David. I would just share this issue with your new love. And I bet she laughs and loves you more.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That was mom.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. Thanks, kid.

[Mandy Patinkin]

All right, so our next question will be joined by a live guest. And first, we are going to hear her voice note.

[Tynan Davis (voice note)]

Good morning, Katherine and Mandy. My name is Tynan Davis. I've been in New York for 20 years. I'm 46 years old, and last night, I got to submit my very first Playbill bio, and it was really exciting. And I'm yet so sad, because the one person that I really want to share it with who would be excited is my mom. And she passed away 13 years ago. And I know that the grief that I feel is directly correlated to the piles and piles of love. How do you. How do you manage being your own best cheerleader when you feel like your best cheerleader isn't around? Well, I don't feel it. I don't feel like she's not around.

[Kathryn Grody]

She's not around.

[Tynan Davis (voice note)]

Oh, I got. My kid's naked. I gotta put clothes on him. Thank you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hello, Tynan.

[Tynan Davis]

Hi.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How are you?

[Tynan Davis]

I'm well. How are you bo.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You have the same earphones we do.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, I know.

[Tynan Davis]

Look how, like, modern we are with our early aughts.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

First of all, congratulations on having a bio and a play. Means you have a job and I have a job.

[Tynan Davis]

So. Nice.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I would like everyone listening out there with your mother, wherever she is, to stand up and give you a hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

You know.

[Tynan Davis]

Oh, man.

[Kathryn Grody]

Let me tell you, I was very surprised when I was listening to you, Tynan, because I. Is that how I'm saying your name correctly?

[Tynan Davis]

Perfect.

[Kathryn Grody]

When I first came to New York, actually, to visit a fellow, I ended up having an audition, and I ended up getting a Broadway show understudy to a Broadway show called scapino. And after 10 days with no rehearsal, they called one night and said, you're on Hattie. Winston's sick. And Tynan, I went to call my mom, who had been dead for several years. Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Wow.

[Kathryn Grody]

So, I mean, I was so scared and so excited, and that was. The only person my impulse was to call at that moment for both comfort and shared excitement, was my mom. But what occurs to me now, and what occurs. She is there. She supported you all those years, and during the struggles, she never lost faith in you, which helped you keep going. Do you know? And it is agonizing, you know, that in the form you want her to be in, she isn't there. But all that support is inside you. And I really believe you can talk to her. You can share it. You can share those feelings, and it's just a way of dealing with the sorrow of that physical and physical loss. But she's there. All that support she gave you is there.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Tynan, can you share with our audience, just for people who don't know what a bio and a playbill is?

[Tynan Davis]

Oh, God, yeah. How can you pick, like, the most potent 75 words to tell total strangers what your life is about and who you are trying to be in the world? That's what it feels like.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And so this is in the playbill, the little booklet for the play. And it's your little paragraph that says what other projects you've been.

[Tynan Davis]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Why Describe yourself.

[Tynan Davis]

Why I'm bonafide. Why I deserve to be. I don't know. Like, how did I get here? Who. Who was foolish enough to. To take a chance on me? I don't know.

[Mandy Patinkin]

How did your mom used to cheer you on?

[Tynan Davis]

Well, I have this very distinct image that at the time, when I was younger, I was so embarrassed by as. As. I think children can sometimes. Sometimes be of their parents but she would. When anything exciting happened for anybody, not just me, she would do this thing where she would jump up and down and clap her hands, like, just totally uninhibited and unmonitored in such a beautiful way. She was a very tall woman and was a dancer, so she was quite beautifully embodied. And so she would. She would just embody her joy for other people's wins. And I think that's what I miss the most, is, like. I think that we would jump up and down together in a kitchen and be. You know, like, that's. And not that I don't have cheerleaders. I have phenomenal cheerleaders in the world. But I think it's specifically that. That version of an embodiment with, like, the person that gave me everything to get to where I am still somehow finding new things to learn and be a part of. So I think that's also part of the grief, too, is that I think I am so driven to keep going in this weird job.

[Kathryn Grody]

Absolutely.

[Tynan Davis]

To bring her into those rooms with me somehow. Like, she didn't. She was also a singer, and.

[Kathryn Grody]

She.

[Tynan Davis]

Was a gorgeous musician, but she put all of her professional desires on a shelf to be a great mom. I'm not made up of that same thing. So I'm still. But I think I want to bring her into those rooms, too, in a way.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, you know, Chanan, you could have a ritual. I mean, I do a ritual before every show, and it's a way of me bringing in my mom and dad and Joe Papp and the people that were my cheerleaders do. You know, I just. I just see them. I always take a moment. I see them hanging from a beam or, you know, sitting there looking at me, and I just talk to them, and I see them before I go on stage. And I just had this image of you before you walk out there, jumping up and down and clapping. It doesn't matter what anybody thinks, but that's your ritual of really bringing that joyful part of your mom with you when you walk on there.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm gonna share with you. I've said it a million times. I'll say it a million more, because I think it's the greatest gift I discovered. I say prayers many times a day, twice a day when I feed my dog. And I always say it's a litany of about 10 minutes or maybe five to eight minutes total, because it goes pretty fast now. But I mention the name of every person that was connected to me that I had some connection with some Deep connections and some maybe not so good connections, but they've passed on in the world that I'm familiar with, and I don't want to lose them. And Oscar Hammerstein wrote a line in the libretto carousel. Forgive me, I've said this a million times, too, but it is one of the holiest tenants of my life. Tenants or prayers or advices or thoughts in. In the. In. In a musical carousel, in the libretto of all things, he wrote this line. As long as there's one person on earth who remembers you, it isn't over. And I heard you on the. On the. On the note that you were reading to us and there was a child in the background. You have a child, Maybe. Child, maybe. Maybe you have more than one.

[Tynan Davis]

How many children do you have?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Just the one. And clearly you're quite beautiful and you look like a young mother. And I dare say, I don't know, I'm curious to know before we have to part, what it is that the bio's for, what play it is where you're doing it. But I would dare say you may be playing a mother in this play or in others, and I guarantee you, whether you are making notes in your script or in your mind or on your walks, that I'll do this. This is what my mother did. I'll do this or this. Whether you do that or you don't do it, your mother will be with you every step of the way. She's breathing. You're breathing her in and out every minute, every day. And do this if you have the desire. One of the reasons I love being on stage more than any place on the planet is because when I look out there, aside from the adrenaline that comes into my being, which is just the greatest gift that human beings have ever been given, I look out into that darkness because the lights are in my eyes and I see that darkness. And I put into that darkness all the loved ones, those that I've known and those that I've heard about, sometimes in the millions, in the millions that I've never met or seen. And they are my audience. I somehow see them more realistically than the people in the front row. I feel them in a larger sense than the. Than, you know, than the bounce of the light on the faces I can see. And I live for it, and I love it. And I'm never alone out there. And, you know, if there was one gift I had to offer you, like, you know, see if you like that.

[Tynan Davis]

It's beautiful. That's beautiful. I love it. I love it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Tynan, how's it. How's the show going? Is it still happening right now?

[Tynan Davis]

We start rehearsals tomorrow.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What is the show?

[Tynan Davis]

It's Amal in the Night Visitors by Minogi at Lincoln Center Theater.

[Kathryn Grody]

That's Mia Barron's friends. What? The playwright.

[Tynan Davis]

Its name, It's. Well, it's an opera. It's a one. It's the. It's Giancarlo Menotti. It was the first opera composed for television in the 50s. And I'm. I'm a swing. I'm swinging the entire ensemble. I wanted to understudy the mother. The late. The lead medso soprano is. Is a mother. And my mother taught me that opera when I was a kid. So, I mean, it was like. It's so full of a lot of stuff and I'm gonna hang out and be ready for anything.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Shirley MacLaine was a swing. I think Chris Walken was a swing dancer. You know, in a chorus. How many people are you covering?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, wait, and Tynen, before you answer that, can you just explain to our non theater experience folks what a swing is?

[Tynan Davis]

Yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, yeah.

[Tynan Davis]

I like to. So the swing is insurance for a show. And so if someone gets sick or has calls out, I am swung into their part. And for a mall in the Night Visitors, I'm swinging the upper voices of the ensemble. So every upper voice, mezzo soprano, both soprano parts, both alpha.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Not just as a singer, you're also walking on stage as the character if you. If they're out of the box, right?

[Tynan Davis]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So you have to learn multiple parts and be at the red many.

[Tynan Davis]

Yes.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm in awe. Tynan, I mean, do you know when you describe this, even though I know what a swing is, but when you describe this, my heart rate literally accelerated in anxiety on your behalf.

[Tynan Davis]

Mine does too. Mine does too. Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Tynan, let us know when. If you get the call. I know sometimes it comes at like, you know, 6:30 on the night when you have a 7:00 clock curtain. But if we're in town, let us know and we would love to come see you when you go on.

[Tynan Davis]

Oh my gosh.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That would be a blast for us. Yeah, because we'll be cheerleading. We'll compete with your mother. That's what we'll do.

[Kathryn Grody]

That's right.

[Tynan Davis]

And we will delight.

[Kathryn Grody]

We will jump. If we're lucky to see you, we will jump up and down at the end.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So who's directing this piece?

[Tynan Davis]

Kenny Leon.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, great.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Can I return to just one of Tynan's Questions was this thing about, how do you become your own best cheerleader when your best cheerleader isn't around? And I feel like, dad, that's something in particular. I've seen you over the years of your performance anxiety or things like when you're struggling with the thing, your family can give you advice, therapists, friends, you know, but it's really. At the end of the day, it's like you and yourself that are finding a way to get through it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And to get to the next part. And I feel like you've become your own best cheerleader through those hardest moments.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm looking at my phone to see here it is different pieces that I do before I go on stage. I have a concert that I do called Being Alive. Sometimes I'm exhausted, I'm tired. I have no voice. I gotta go out there. There's no swing for me. I gotta get out there and do it no matter what. And I write thoughts down to just help me. It's the craft that I learned from Jerry Friedman at Juilliard Drama School, sitting next to Bill Hurt when we did a classic play called Duchess of Malfi. What is an action? How do you play it? And as Jane Alexander said to me one day, I was. I was going up for a piece, and I kept saying, why, here's this piece. And I read it to her, and I said, but I can't figure out what the action is. And Jane, who is an actress that I just adore and loved, and I was 24 years old before I met you, 23 or 24. And she said, well, you don't need that. You don't need that action stuff. And stuff you learn in school, when you feel it, the way you feel it. And then years later, I realized, well, I felt this one thing the way I felt it all the time. And then one day, I couldn't find it. It just disappeared. It, like, evaporated in my brain. And then I went to. I remember saying to myself years later, jane, I think you made a mistake. Jane, you do need it. You need it. When you don't think, you need it. And for instance, for my concert, Being Alive, which is Sorry, I hit the mic, which is a whole variety of songs. The main thing, I think, when I do Being Alive, is get out there and celebrate life. Connect with those people. Tell them to celebrate every single second. I don't care how you feel, Mandy, right now. Get out there and tell them to have fun. And that's my main. Go to Mandy.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's your main Cheer, my main cheer.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thank you. Mandy. Go out there and tell them to have fun. Don't tell you to have fun. That's too hard to do. But tell that character I'm talking to to have fun. Tell my mother to have fun wherever she is. Just have it underneath everything that's coming out of me.

[Kathryn Grody]

And just. She is in you, that description. I can see her tan and I've never met her, but I have this image of this beautiful, tall woman jumping up and down. And honestly, if you just do that for yourself before you go on or before you rehearse, and it doesn't matter what anybody thinks, you know that there you are, you know, you're able to do this, and she is inside of you, and that's a ritual where you actually, you know, have her be there right on your shoulders.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How long has it been since she's passed away, Diana?

[Tynan Davis]

Thirteen years.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Have you had dreams about her?

[Tynan Davis]

No, that's the crazy. I mean, a couple. A couple. But not as many as other people, well, have had told me about.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I believe you're going to have some dreams about her sooner than you. Even though it's 13 years, I really believe it. And go out there and find her in your sleep, on your walks, on that stage, look in that darkness she's in. Every fucking seat.

[Kathryn Grody]

And Tina, we are all so lucky if we were given the gift of having a parent that we miss. I think there is nothing sadder than a person being here and leaving without anybody missing them or caring and no connection. So we have the choice of closing ourselves off and not daring to be connected so that we end up feeling this grief and this loss. Do you know? Or choosing to connect and feel it. And then we conjure them up and reach for them in these other ways that there is so much nothing. What was the quote? My brother was a Buddhist monkey. Nothing is as it seems, nor is it otherwise. It's a hard thing to get. And my interpretation of that is your mother was here and she jumped up and down and she's still jumping up and down somewhere and inside of you or in some form.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom, you lost your parents in your early 20s?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, I lost.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Do you feel them? Do you still feel them as a cheerleader or.

[Kathryn Grody]

I. I do. And it's a strange thing, the weirdness of time, Tyne. And, I mean, my parents have been gone since I was 25 years old, and I know that. And I can tell funny stories about them or sad ones. And then once in a while it hits me as if it Just happened. You know, I can share my kids. I can talk about them. I can. But they didn't get to see them as the human incarnation and. God damn.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

God.

[Tynan Davis]

God damn it. Right? God damn it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kathryn Grody]

I mean, it's just a funny thing, but that also means we're feeling beings.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Do you know, before we go, Tynan, I'm curious if you have any advice for me as somebody who hasn't lost their parents yet, but apparently will someday. Who has. Whose parents have been their biggest cheerleader?

[Tynan Davis]

Gideon, what a gorgeous question.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Anything. Anything You'd.

[Tynan Davis]

I mean, I feel like you're. You're doing it, right? The documenting and the being with. And I think that's the thing that I. That I really just. I was so. I'll say. I'll use the technical term. My head was so far up my own ass before. Before, and I didn't ask them. I didn't know what questions to ask. I didn't. I didn't ask enough questions of. Of my mom before I lost her. And I feel like. And same. I just never really got to know her as an adult. And I think that it's really beautiful that you're doing that, and I think that you've modeled that for a lot of people. So bravo to y' all for showing how we can be in relationship with our parents as adults. It's really beautiful.

[Kathryn Grody]

Thank you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Thanks for saying that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I have a little piece of advice for you on that question. Just get me whatever I ask for.

[Tynan Davis]

Until I drop it, and then you feel like I.

[Mandy Patinkin]

This is Mandy's way of getting a glass of water when he's across the room and asks.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And I look, oh, I wish I just gotten him that last mine. But I'm so glad I got him that last glass of water.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Tynan, thank you so much.

[Kathryn Grody]

Thank you.

[Tynan Davis]

This is a delight, the privilege of.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Seeing you swinging in.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Tynan Davis]

Oh, I'll. I'll let. I'll. I'll let you know.

[Kathryn Grody]

Have a great time.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Have a great time. Thanks for. Thanks for coming to us.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Tynan Davis]

Thank you. Have a good day.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Bye.

[Tynan Davis]

Bye.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Beautiful.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, thanks, everyone, for tuning in. That's the end of our episode today. We want to hear from you if you got more questions, stories, if you're swinging in for opera, if you've got advice for us or our dog, Becky, if you've got.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Anything.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, please, if you have anything to send our way, we'd love to be in conversation with you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't send me cookies or sweets. I'm on a new diet. I'm not trying to eat pasta. Don't send pasta.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But you can email askmandiandcatherinemail.com as Mandy said, please don't email any pasta or check out our socials for an easy way to send us a voice note.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't send vegan ice cream thinking that it's don't send me dairy.

[Mandy Patinkin]

There's vegan ice cream?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, but it has so much sugar in it. Don't send me sugar.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay, well nobody's sending you any of these things on email.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm just warning. I don't want people to waste postage.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Thanks so much for being here and tuning in. Just remember, Don't Listen to Us. Don't Listen to Us is a Lemonada Media original hosted by Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Created by Katrina Onstad, Debbie Pacheco and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Executive producers are Kathryn Grody, Gideon, Gridy Pedinkin, Mandy Padinkin, Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles Wax. Our engineer is Ryan Derringer of Welterweight Sound. Video and audio production by Mark Whiteway of Bellows Media. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Media Premium yet, now's the perfect time. You can hear Don't Listen to Us completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like behind the scenes conversations, questions so weird they didn't make it on air, Becky the Dog shenanigans, and more. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple podcasts. Head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium. Com. Don't miss out.