Toilets, Ice Cream, and Love After 47 Years with Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody

Summary

Don't Listen To Us: Toilets, Ice Cream, and Love After 47 Years

Podcast: Don’t Listen To Us with Mandy Patinkin & Kathryn Grody
Host: Lemonada Media
Date: October 15, 2025
Episode Theme:
A heartfelt, hilarious, and candid family advice session: Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody, and their son Gideon field listener dilemmas while reflecting on their 47-year marriage, changing relationships, quirks (toilets!), and the wisdom (and absurdity) that accumulates over the decades.

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode explores the intersection of long-term relationships, generational wisdom, and everyday challenges. Through listener questions on topics ranging from the perils of overconfident partners to using bidets and coming out to one’s family, Mandy, Kathryn, and Gideon mix banter with genuine advice, drawing on their own marriage, Jewish cultural roots, and candid self-examination. The result is a warmth- and humor-infused conversation about surviving and connecting in a “fakakta world.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meet the Patinkin-Grody Family

• Setting & Mood:
  • The family is together in their safe space in upstate New York, feeling both excited and a bit nervous to be hosting a podcast for the first time.
  • Initial casual, playful banter as they try to introduce themselves.
• Self-Identity & Aging:
  • Kathryn pushes back against the label "senior," instead embracing "elder":
    • "I am trying to get rid of the concept of senior... I find it so insulting." (02:05, Kathryn)
  • They joke about aging, roles (father vs. grandfather), family dynamics, and birth order.

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2. Advice Opener: Handling Overconfident Partners (Emperor Moth Debate)

Listener’s Dilemma:
Kate is annoyed that her husband Keith confidently asserts incorrect facts (in this case, misidentifying a moth), and wonders how to deal as a couple ages together.
Key Advice:

• Kathryn advises discernment, humor, and letting go:
  • "Pick and choose which is important to be corrective about and which doesn’t really matter… and how intense the correction is." (06:16, Kathryn)
  • Mandy admits he's been "the person who had to be right" but has mellowed with age, especially post-pandemic:
    • "I became nicer in every way imaginable, more agreeable… I listened better... It was like a light switch." (07:02, Mandy)
• Humor and perspective matter; not every wrong fact is worth a fight.

Notable Moment:

• Mandy describes the “assholem” returning post-pandemic:
  • "As pandemic faded, assholem came back on both our parts, I must say." (07:42, Mandy)

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3. The Toilet Segment: Bidets, Barbarism, and Toilet Paper Preferences

Listener’s Dilemma:
Carl from Missoula asks: Why don’t more Americans use bidets—are we "barbaric" for skipping them?
Key Advice & Anecdotes:

• Mandy jokes he's used a bidet since birth (Gideon corrects him—it was a Hanukkah gift from Gideon).
• Kathryn contextualizes: having any sanitary option is lucky; not having a bidet isn't "barbaric".
• Mandy fiercely defends toilet paper orientation:
  • "I really get pissed off when people come stay in my home and switch the way the toilet paper’s on the roll. I think that’s a lot of nerve." (09:51, Mandy)
• Anecdote: The most beautiful movie star they knew used newspaper to be ecological!

Memorable Quotes:

• "Forget the bidet shit—I forgive the pun—but I really get pissed off when people… switch the way the toilet paper's on the roll." (09:51, Mandy)

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4. Coming Out Later in Life & Family Support

Listener’s Dilemma:
Ellis—an eldest daughter—seeks advice on coming out as trans to their “nice Jewish dad” after hiding it for almost 50 years.
Key Advice & Emotional Support:

• Kathryn offers empathy and invokes family wisdom:
  • "To be yourself in a world which is doing its best… means to fight the hardest battle that any human can fight and never stop fighting." (13:57, Kathryn)
  • Encourages taking the risk: “If you’re 99% sure… I think you should act on that.”
• Mandy tells Ellis to trust and have faith in their father's love:
  • "If you have the courage to ask the hardest question—which is, can you love me the way I am—then he'll find it." (15:17, Mandy)
• Kathryn imagines a metaphorical moment:
  • "I just had this image, Ellis, of you handing your dad the scissors and having him help you be who you are." (15:51, Kathryn)

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5. Live Caller: Rediscovering Love After Heartbreak & Loss (Lori from Portland)

Lori’s Story:
61, twice-divorced, deeply affected by grief and loss, Lori worries she’s closed her heart to new love; she asks for help “getting her mojo back.”
Key Insights:

• Mandy shares a story of heartbreak resolved by wise words from a friend:
  • "She did love you. She didn't love you your way, but she loved you her way... It set me free." (22:06, Mandy reminiscences)
• Kathryn celebrates Lori's resilience:
  • "Would you rather have an unused heart or a broken one?… If you can feel despair, you can also feel joy, because you can still feel something." (24:14, Kathryn)
• Recognize that pain and joy often exist together.
• Mandy’s pragmatic advice:
  • "Just have a great day. Go get a double scoop of your favorite ice cream and get a dog… Don’t try to be with a person, for fuck’s sake, get a dog." (27:18, Mandy)
• Kathryn reframes: focus on what you do have and live in openness, not desperate pursuit.

Notable Quotes:

• "We're all fucked up. We all have messed up relationships. Just have a great time." (27:22, Mandy)
• "That's why we've survived: we make each other laugh." (26:33, Mandy)
• "Maybe not focus so much on what isn't there, and give yourself a lot of joy in the day." (27:40, Kathryn)

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6. Parent-Child Dynamics: Giving & Receiving Advice in Adulthood

• Gideon asks how parents can impart wisdom without seeming naggy/preachy.
• Kathryn: It’s hard, tables turn as kids become adults—she now receives more advice than she gives.
• Kathryn references Critical Response Theory: Praise first, then offer criticism only if asked (34:33).
• The family discusses sensitivity to criticism ("Mandy Math") and how children can learn from their parents’ struggles:
  • "Some of your biggest struggles in life have been my biggest benefits. Because I've gotten to watch what's helped you and what hasn’t." (38:20, Gideon)
• Mandy highlights a moment when Gideon told him he learned not to self-torture:
  • "All that self-torture I put myself through, it taught you never to do that… it had worth." (36:28, Mandy)

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7. Aging, Change, and Risk-Taking

Pat’s Question: What have you changed your mind about as you’ve gotten older?

• Mandy: Once believed "sex is the glue" in relationships. Now:
  • "As you get older, it’s not that sex isn’t nice... but it has nothing to do with being the glue to our relationship. Our relationship is the glue." (39:50, Mandy)
• Kathryn: Letting go of the illusion of control over aging:
  • "I was not going to do it like other people because I was so special." (41:12, Kathryn)
  • Realizes she must adapt, sometimes surrender, without seeing it as defeat.
• The family discusses taking risks as one ages, referencing Kathryn's decision to do a demanding show in Singapore at 78, with Gideon balancing encouragement with concern.
• Mandy and Kathryn compare living boldly to how they let their dog live freely—even acknowledging risk:
  • "She's had a great life… and even if she got taken out, she got taken out doing what she loved." (44:34, Mandy)
• Kathryn wants to "go out mid-conversation, mid-gesticulation":
  • "I want to be as alive as I can." (45:10, Kathryn)
  • But also recognizes new needs, like "plugging in my battery" (aka, napping at age 78).
• Empathy for aging and refusal to see it as diminished living.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Correcting a Partner:
  "Pick and choose which is important to be corrective about and which doesn’t really matter." – Kathryn (06:16)
• On Bidets & Toilet Paper:
  "Forget the bidet shit—I forgive the pun—but I really get pissed off when people… switch the way the toilet paper's on the roll." – Mandy (09:51)
• On Coming Out to Family:
  "Have a little faith in your father… If you have the courage to ask the hardest question—which is, can you love me the way I am—then he'll find it." – Mandy (15:17)
• On Surviving Relationships:
  "Would you rather have an unused heart or a broken one?" – Kathryn (24:14)
  "Just have a great day. Go get a double scoop of your favorite ice cream and get a dog." – Mandy (27:18)
• On Criticism & Parenting:
  "Some of your biggest struggles in life have been my biggest benefits." – Gideon (38:20)
  "All that self-torture… had worth, that it taught you never to do that…" – Mandy (36:28)
• On Love & Longevity:
  "Our relationship is the glue to our relationship. Time is the glue to our relationship. History." – Mandy (40:39)
• On Living Boldly While Aging:
  "I want to go out mid-conversation, mid-gesticulation… to be as alive as I can." – Kathryn (45:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:35–03:36 – Introductions, family roles, and musings on aging
• 04:30–08:21 – Emperor moth/silk moth couple’s quarrel and advice on correcting partners
• 08:49–11:42 – Bidets & American toileting (toilet paper, bidet origin story, movie stars with newspaper)
• 12:18–16:04 – Ellis’s email: coming out as trans later in life, family responses
• 20:09–28:15 – Lori from Portland: grief, heartbreak, and reopening her heart to love
• 32:46–38:58 – Family advice: how to give/receive advice as a parent and adult child, “Mandy Math,” lasting lessons
• 39:41–47:14 – What’s changed with age: sex, risk, adapting to aging, learning from the dog (“do the risk”)
• 47:21–48:20 – Kathryn’s wish: respecting parental suggestions—even for medical care

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Tone & Style

Conversational, irreverent, and affectionate, with wisdom and humor arising as much from honest self-mockery as from hard-won experience. The Patinkin-Grody family handle even heavy subjects with warmth and wit, repeatedly reminding listeners that no one has it all figured out—but that’s what makes connection, laughter, and compassion so precious.

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For Listeners Who Haven't Tuned In

You’ll get a blend of relatable, real-life advice and outrageous, charming stories about marriage, aging, and family, delivered in a style that's equal parts riotous and deeply thoughtful. The episode will leave you feeling as though you’ve eavesdropped on an unusually insightful family dinner—complete with loving teasing, vulnerability, and a good dose of practical wisdom.

Bottom Line:
Don’t Listen To Us is a celebration of relationship messiness, surviving and thriving together, and the kind of unconditional support and laughter that can only come from a forty-seven-year partnership—and their very brave (and witty) son.

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Notable Closing Line:
"We're all fucked up. We all have messed up relationships. Just have a great time. Go get a double scoop of your favorite ice cream and get a dog." – Mandy Patinkin (27:22)

Transcript

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Foreign.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You can hear every episode of don't listen to us ad free with Lemonada Premium. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to Lemonada Premium to subscribe on any other app. That's Lemonada Premium dot com. It's Monday morning in New York.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We're a little excited. Are we going? Excited for your new radio experience?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How are, how are you guys? How you doing?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Okay. Huh?

[Kate or Keith (caller)]

Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm a little friend of Mandy's dad's. I've never done a radio show before, but I'm here to have a good time.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How do dad seems like he's in a really good mood. How do you get him in Slightly less love?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Just turn the volume down. I try and go like this, but it doesn't work.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay. Mom, dad, where are we?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

We are.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We're here.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

We're in America.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I wasn't going to say that.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Oh, sorry.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I didn't want to lose listeners. So we. We're in upstate. We're in some upstate state. Yeah, we're in the upstate region of some state.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. This is really my safe space.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, thanks for letting us come into your space.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

I'm very happy you're here, hun.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And we're here trying out our podcast, don't listen to us. Our take it or leave it advice show with me, Gideon Grody Patinkin and my parents. And we're excited to be with you all and talk about some stuff and.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Be less alone in this crazy moment that we're all in together.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Can we just introduce ourselves to our friends out there?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Who are we?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

I am Katherine Grody Pachinkin. I am an elder, Jewish elder. I'm trying to identity. First of all, I am trying to. To get rid of the concept of senior. I find it been there, done. That wasn't my best year. I find it so insulting.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do you think of yourself more as an elder than an actress and a writer or.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, some days, honey. Some days. Well, no, I'm an elder. Actress, elder wife, grandmother.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What are you before you're an elder?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

You're a late middle aged person.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What's the cutoff?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Oh, yeah, well, it depends. I used to think that, that you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Said 80 is when you're old.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

I said 80 is when. Well, no, I said 80 is. Is early elder and 90 is old. I'm amending it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And dad, who are you?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm dad.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

And who are you?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm Gideon.

[Kate or Keith (caller)]

There.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

There's son.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

In what birth order?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I am second of the Grody Patink.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

How do you think that's impacted you being the second?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's allowed me to watch all you crazy lunatics a little bit longer.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You don't feel you're crazy, lunatic. You didn't inherit any of it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think I'm about 43% less crazy than anyone else.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm also. I'm also known as gramps.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Gramps? Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I consider that my new.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do you think of yourself now more as a grandfather or a father?

[Mandy Patinkin]

As Gramps? As a grandfather? Because you're not interested in anything I have to say at this point, are you?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, I'm here doing podcast with you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, I just thought you needed. I just thought you needed to kill the day. Oh, my God.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

There's so many other ways I could kill the day.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Moving right along.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So we sent a message out to our little community online on. On social media, wanting to hear from people, their questions, looking for advice, having experiences, what they want to talk about. And you guys like talking to people Most of the time.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

I love talking to people.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You love it all the time.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Dad loves it on occasion. Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So let's ease in with a relationship dynamic that may be familiar to a lot of listeners. Here's our first voice note from a couple, Kate and Keith.

[Kate or Keith (caller)]

Hello. Oh, I think this is going now. So what's. Keith. Hey. What's our question?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think it was something about how to deal with me.

[Kate or Keith (caller)]

No, I think the question was. So we're sitting out here on our deck enjoying this Friday afternoon, and I was telling Keith, my husband of 20 years, that bugs the shit out of me when he says something competently. Like, when we were on the trail earlier today, we spent the day in the forest, and I took a picture of a moth, a beautiful moth, and I asked you what kind of moth it was.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

I saw.

[Kate or Keith (caller)]

And you said it was an. With, like, utter confidence. You said it was an emperor moth.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. And it was an emperor moth.

[Kate or Keith (caller)]

No, it wasn't an emperor moth.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It was a type of emperor moth.

[Kate or Keith (caller)]

No, it was a silk moth. So what bugs me is that he will say things. No, it's. He will say things with such confidence. And then when I realize he's, like, talking out of his ass, like, it could be the emperor moth, it could be the plumbing issue. It could be electrical. But anyway, I guess our question is how do you guys manage when one person speaks confidently out of their ass, but they're actually not right or correct? Was it an emperor? It was not an emperor moth.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It was a type of Emperor.

[Kate or Keith (caller)]

No, it wasn't. It was a silk moth.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Look it up.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. What's. What's your advice?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

My advice?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How they should deal with this going further into their years. You guys are what, 40 years?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

45. 47. 45. Official.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I mean, it's 47.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Honey, we will not just from marriage.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's from hello.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Okay. From hello is 47. I think, Kate, you pick and choose which is important to be corrective about and which doesn't really matter, you know, And. And how intense the correction is, you know?

[Mandy Patinkin]

How do you feel you do at that?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

It depends.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. How do you feel you do with that?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Dad? I. I feel that I have actually been at fault as the person who had to be right in the past. But as I got older and, you know, it's like, to me, life is pandemic to today. And then there was pre pandemic. And I would say the pandemic improved my behavior exponentially. Wow. I became nicer in every way imaginable, more agreeable. I listened better. I agreed more often. I didn't feel I had to win because we had to be together alone for God knows how long. And it was like a light switch.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do you feel you also. Do you feel you also became kinder to yourself?

[Mandy Patinkin]

No.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah. Not at all. But I think I did become a better person to be with for mom.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. I did chores better.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I cleaned up more. You know, I just. We each pulled our weight more and realized. And then, you know, as pandemic faded, assholem came back on both our parts, I must say.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

But I think if Kate was able just to pick and choose when she needs to correct Keith and when she can let it go and maybe show him the information later in a different form.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I love that.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Just a sense of humor.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Maybe the emperor moth wouldn't be the one to dig into.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, maybe not. Maybe not right at that moment.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Excellent. I love that. Let's go to our next question. That was your first question.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

That was nice. Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's not so hard.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

A little strange. Little strange because I thought the people were live, but they weren't. That was just their question. But they sounded.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We'll let you know if someone's lash. Okay, this next one is another voice note from Carl.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hi, this is Carl from Missoula, Montana. I got a question for you. I use a bidet. Why don't more Americans use bidets? Is there something wrong with us? Is American toileting barbaric? Looking forward to what you have to say. Thanks.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

What was I Don't think I said.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Why don't play it again, would you?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

He uses a bidet.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And he's asking if American toileting is.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Barbaric, meaning without bidets.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I couldn't agree more, Carl. I've. I've been using a bidet since birth.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That is not true. I got you your first bidet for Hanukkah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, it is. And I would love it.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

And there was an article about it recently.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I beloved by bidet.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

I mean, I don't think it's, you know, given people's limited options all over the world on toileting, I think just a regular toilet is a lucky thing to have. And if you're really lucky, then you have a bidet. But I don't think it's barbaric not to have one.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I have a particular affinity toward the toilet paper. You grab it from the. The paper is loose on top, hanging down, so it's not coming from the back. And I'm. I really get pissed off. Forget the bidet shit. I forgive the pun, but. But I really get pissed off when people come stay in my home. Yeah. And. And they switch the way. The way the toilet papers on the roll. Oh, yeah. I think that's a lot of nerve.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's. That sounds really difficult.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, it is difficult.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I don't understand why someone would do that.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

I mean, I've lived in places and travel in places where there is no particular toilet available. So I have a large range of acceptability about this.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But, you know, do you guys remember when I got you that bidet toilet for Hanukkah? You were very skeptical and you. You really didn't know about this whole thing. And then you used it once or twice, and the next thing I knew, you had it in every bathroom in your house.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. Well, that's mostly for the warming aspect of it in the winter, which is really wonderful.

[Mandy Patinkin]

The warm seat.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You don't use the spray?

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, never.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, I do on occasion.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Completely insane.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We knew a famous movie star who didn't use toilet paper. Yeah, very famous. Gorgeous. Like one of the most beautiful movie stars.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What did they use?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Newspaper. It was an ecological save.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I don't even know where to begin.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And they. Did they flush the newspaper or.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Maybe.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I hope so.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I never. I was told this by Mom.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I wasn't there.

[Kate or Keith (caller)]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Wow.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay, this next one, we're gonna pivot a little bit. And this one came in through email. So, Mom, I'm gonna hand this to you out our question from Ellis.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You know, in the future, I would love a little button so that when I have to cough, I can silence my mic so it's not annoying people.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What is this that we.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

This is a letter that came from somebody. Right?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

This is our next question. Came in from email from Ellis, and Mom's going to read it out for us.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Dear Mandy and Catherine, I need advice from some nice Jewish parents about coming out as trans to my nice Jewish dad. I'm ready to do it, and I want to do it, and I'm 99% sure my dad will be accepting of it, but I just can't. I know that a big part of what's blocking me is that I've been hiding this part of myself for nearly 50 years, and I no longer know how to be anyone other than this version of myself that everyone else knows. When you're an eldest daughter, as I was raised to be, you learn from an early age that you are the family glue. Everyone depends on you for everything. And now, after a half century, it feels impossible to stand up and say, hey, this is something I need to do for myself and myself alone. There's a dream I have sometimes where I'm trying to take off a shirt and I just can't figure out how to do it. So the sleeves are too tight, the neck hole is too small to fit over my head. The body keeps getting stuck up around my ribs or my armpits, and I just get trapped in this suffocating fabric until I wake up gasping. If my dreams worked in Hollywood, they get laughed out of the room for being too on the nose. What I need, metaphorically, are scissors. Please tell me where I can find my scissors. How can I cut my way out of this? Thank you so much for considering my question. Ellis.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Can I see that?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Wow.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thanks, Ellis.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Thank you, Ellis.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

You know, we have a. Our family motto is an EE Cummings poem that is to be yourself in a world which is doing its best. Night and day means to fight the hardest, to fight the hardest battle that any human being can fight and never stop fighting. And I have great empathy that you have felt discomfort in being able to be who you are for 50 years. And if you're 99% sure that your dad will be supportive, I think you should act on that. And it sounds like you have a loving family and you will be the glue.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Anyway, you know what comes up for you dad with that?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Have a little faith in your father. Tell him he's been your father. Since the beginning. If he has a single cell of brain matter in his skull, he will be loving toward you whether he means it or not. And he'll learn to mean it if he doesn't initially mean it. But give him some time and space and trust him, and he'll feel that. But don't hide it from your father. It doesn't bode well for both of you for the long run. You'll need each other more and more as time goes on. And if you have the courage to ask the hardest question, which is, can you love me the way I am, no matter what, then he'll find it. Even if he doesn't find it at that exact moment, Give him a shot.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Amen. Thank you, Ellis.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Thank you for asking us that question.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

I just had this image, Alice, of you just handing your dad the scissors and having him, you know, say, let me help you be who you are, you know?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thanks, guys.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay, wait a minute. There's Becky. She wants to be in the.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay, she can be in the ad.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Do you have dog? These are great, great JLab. JLab. JLab headphones. Few people know this. They're the most unique earphones for dogs. And dogs have very sensitive ears. So this is the one you want to get if you have a dog.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Which model did you get?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I got. Well, I got them all. My favorite one is this one. The Epic Open Sport. Epic Open Sport. Comes in this incredible little case. And it's fun. Here. Wait a minute. I can even show you this. I just had the thing because I was charging my stuff earlier. Look, you take a ubc. It's what? Look at me with all my language here. UBC. Is that called.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What's it called? That's just 100% wrong. USBC.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's the point. USB C. USB USB C. And then it lights up. You see, when it's all lit up, then you have it. You have it. You open it up. You open it up. Has a nice little case.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But, dad, tell me how the actual headphones feel in your actual ear holes. Playing actual ear sound.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I put them in immediately and I love it. Takes me away from the noise in my head and puts the music in my being. Look for the blue box at retailers everywhere. Or you can shop jlab.com and use code. Don't listen for 15% off your order today. And always keep the JLAB tune in your head. J L A BJ Lab. That's the headphone just for me. And if they use that, I'll make them pay.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

This show is sponsored by Midi Health. And let me tell you, I'm so thrilled to learn about MIDI Health because when I was in midlife and when I was going through perimenopause and menopause, they did not exist. I felt alone. Like every woman going through this was made to feel. And we were made to feel ashamed and embarrassed and to feel that our vibrancy in all areas was over. Do you know today 75% of women seeking care for menopause and perimenopause issues are left entirely untreated? How's that possible? Midi Health is now here to provide individualized telehealth, which is covered by your insurance, by the way. And they will listen, take women seriously and encourage you to move on to this next act. Get through it less insane than I was. So I really encourage you to check them out. If you're ready to feel your best and write your own second act, visit join midi.com today. Book your personalized insurance covered virtual visit. That's join midi.comm I d I the care women deserve. That's progress. Hallelujah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We're back. I love that product. We're back.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And just do one that says that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And we're back. Great. He's been controlling my son.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Everyone's doing great. Okay, so mom, dad. This round will be joined by live callers.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Are we ready for this?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think you're. Yeah, I don't think we're ready. It's just a person. It'll be great. Next we have Lori from Portland. So first we're going to hear Lori's question and then she'll be on the line with us.

[Lori (caller)]

Hi, Mandy and Catherine. Okay, here goes Nothing. I'm a 61 year old woman, although I'm told I look about 10 to 15 years younger on good days. I have a beautiful 30 year old daughter. I've been married and divorced and married and divorced. You get the picture. I've lost in relationships and also through grief. Having lost my father and my brother three months apart just five years ago. My most important family relationships. I've gone from a person who loved every part of life to someone who really doesn't love anything except that beautiful daughter of mine. The situation in the country and the world hasn't helped and I just feel like an empty shell sometimes. Please don't think this is a cry for help. I'm fine. I just miss having that capacity to actually open up and love another person or be willing to, I guess. How do I get my mojo back and open up My heart again. Please don't say dating apps. I appreciate you, Lori.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So we've got Lori on the line. Hi, Lori.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Hi, Lori.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Hi.

[Lori (caller)]

How are you?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hi, Lori. I'm good, I'm good. I want to answer your question first. I remember I was minding my own business, and I was in. Oh, I was about. What was I, 19 or 20? And we just moved a lot of our friends in New York out of U haul all moved everybody around, and then I ended up being in a play with a young lady that was, you know, interested in playing with me on more than just the stage. And I fell head over heels with this person. And then we did the play, and we had a relationship in the play together, and. And then in the middle of the play, she dumped me, and I was devastated. I had to finish the play. The director came up and go, why are you crying all the time? What's going on? And I went, oh, my God. Anyway, I made it through it. And then one day, about nine months later, I'm at a bar on Columbus Avenue with my buddy Leo, and he said to me, leo Burmester, God rest his soul, wonderful actor. Look him up. You've seen him in a million movies. But I said, I don't get it, man. I just don't get it. I don't get it. I just don't get it. And she acted like she loved me, and then all of a sudden, she doesn't. I just don't get it. And I'm like, 22. And he goes, but she did love you. She didn't love you your way, but she loved you her way. She loved you. It was her way, not your way. And it set me free. My wife's looking at me like, making sense. Well, what else is new? But. But I. But it did set me free, and I just wanted to preserve the ability to feel and be in love again, as opposed to be armored and lock my heart in a steel chest where I couldn't get that spoon and break out of the prison of loneliness. And Leo saved my life that day over that hamburger. And then I met Catherine down the road, and why can't that happen to you?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Lori, how are you feeling today?

[Lori (caller)]

I think, well, I feel fine again. I want to reiterate. I'm fine. But this. What spurred my question was a recent meet cute situation that I had where I actually did enjoy the company of a gentleman that I talked to at an event about a month ago. And it seemed like a connection, but we parted ways with only each other's first names and occupations. And I came home thinking, what is this feeling? I haven't had this feeling in a long time. But there was this intangible barrier, like you were just saying. Mandy. It just kept me from going further with it and asking if he'd like to continue the conversation over coffee. And that barrier is my heart, right? It's, like, locked, and I just can't figure out a way to open it.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Well, Laurie, it's a couple of things. First of all, you're pretty resilient. You know, there's a line I love. Would you rather have an unused heart or a broken one? And you've been brave enough twice, and you still have a lot of love for your kid. And there's that Japanese thing. I think it's called katsuji.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Katsugi.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. Where you take broken things and mend them back together with gold leaf, you know? And if you can feel despair, you can also feel joy, because you can still feel something so you're not numbing, you know? And this is a really hard time in history to live through. And I try very hard not to start the day with the headlines, you know, but with a long view. Or start the day with joy or beauty. End the day that way. And fight, you know, the good fights, whatever they mean to you. But 61, you got a long way to go, and you're lucky if you're, you know, in great shape. And I would say just, you know, don't even think of yourself as armored, you know, practice imagining that heart of yours. It's been well used and well hurt, but that it's still beating. Do you know?

[Lori (caller)]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Laurie, listen to me. We've been doing this for about 15, 20 minutes. We're making the pilot. Are you aware of that? Of our podcast?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

This is the very first time we're doing it, so we're all trying to figure out, what's this like? Do we like it? I'm really concerned that, you know, Lori calls and she's, like, worried about having a relationship. I want her to have fun.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, why don't you ask Lori? Are you having fun? Yes.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

And that is why.

[Lori (caller)]

So here's the thing. I thought, who better to ask than you and Catherine? Because you have been together as long as you have, you have navigated a relationship, and I look to people like yourselves for wisdom and guidance. That's why, I mean, my life is good. Don't get me wrong. I have a good life. I have a good career. But could it be better with love of Course it could. So who do I look to as an authority on that subject? Somebody who has traversed these things, like you, like you said.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah. Can you define love, Lori? Can you define love to me? Can you define love to me, Lori?

[Lori (caller)]

That's pretty philosophical.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Forget it. Don't even try. It's undefinable, Lori. It's undefinable, right? You know, I don't have a fucking clue what it is. I'll tell you what Kathryn always said about the two of us, because we've been through some horseshit. You know, it's never me. I've been perfect. But on occasion, she's had problems. But we make each other laugh. That's what we do. And we can get pretty ugly, but we get so ugly that we start almost laughing at it at some point. And that's how we've survived. And what I wish for you is, is to never call another podcast trying to fix your relationship. Join the human race. We're all fucked up. We all have messed up relationships. Just have a great time. Have a great day. Go get a double scoop of your favorite ice cream and. And, you know, and. And get a dog. Don't try to be with a person, for fuck's sake. Get a dog.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

There you go, Laurie. Mandy.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, there you go.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

He distills it into some ice cream and a dog got it. Which could work.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I love my dog. I mean, I love my wife, too, but I love my dog more.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, there's no question that he loves his dog more. Lauren, I would say it sounds to me like you have your mojo. You know, you have friends that you have a good time with, you like your job, you have a loving kid, you live in a great city, you know, and it's like, maybe not focus so much on what isn't there, and just really give yourself a lot of joy in the day and, you know, be open to. To see what happens instead of actively looking for it every minute around the corner. Just love yourself.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And when you don't, call a friend or call therapist or call back to our very successful podcast and we'll give you some more advice. But I'm calling my therapist 24 7. I got a bill that could pay for a small country. Don't hesitate to ask for help because it's hard being alive. And if you think you're the only one who's having a hard time, well, you're not. You're not the. Everybody, we're all having a hard time. This thing being alive, it's a motherfucker you know, and just. Just join the club. Get a dog and eat some chocolate. Eat some chocolate ice cream.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do you have any advice for us before you go?

[Lori (caller)]

No. I think you're both great. I appreciate.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Don't give up your day job.

[Lori (caller)]

I know, but, Catherine, Mandy, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Gideon, do you know about BetterHelp.com I.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do know about BetterHelp. I have a lot of friends who use it. Recently, it was World Mental Health Day, and this year, BetterHelp is shining the spotlight on therapists, people who truly make the world a better place. I certainly feel that about my own therapist.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I know we screw around a lot on our show, but I'm not screwing around with this. Therapy has absolutely saved my life. And. And I don't think Catherine and I would have made it through 47 years of being together. But we've learned that listening is actually a virtue and something that we might try on occasion.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, and it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. And I know, dad, that you like the star system. You know, 4.9 out of 5.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What's the star system?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, four stars. The ratings.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how I pick a restaurant. That's how I pick a therapist.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's right.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's right. And if they have liver and onions, don't throw that therapist away.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You mean if your therapist feeds you liver and onions?

[Mandy Patinkin]

If my therapist fed me liver and onions, I'd stay there 24, 7, 365. I'd be the happiest person ever to have gone to therapy.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, if there's a therapist out there.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Who provides such a service, you could.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Probably find [e-mail] this World Mental Health.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Day, we're celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Today, our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com don'tlisten. That's better. H-E-L-P.com don'tlisten.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, hi, everybody. It's Julia Louis Dreyfus from the Wiser Than Me podcast. And I'm not going to talk about food waste this time. I'm going to talk about food resources. All that uneaten food rotting in the landfill. It could be enriching our soil or food feeding our chickens because it's still food. And the easiest and frankly, way coolest way to put all its nutrients to work is with the mill food recycler. It looks like an art house garbage can. You can just toss your scraps in it like a garbage can. But it is definitely not a garbage can. I mean, it's true. I'm pretty obsessed with this thing. I even invested in this thing. But I'm not alone.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Any mill owner just might corner you at a party and rhapsodize about how it's completely odorless and it's fully automated and how you can keep filling it for weeks. But the clincher is that you can depend on it for years. Mill is a serious machine. Think about a dishwasher, not a toaster. It's built by hand in North America and it's engineered by the guy who did your iPhone. But you have to kind of live with mill to understand all the love. That's why they offer a rich. Go to mill.com wiser for an exclusive offer.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Do you have any questions you want to ask me as a son to a father? Can I help you?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Actually, I have a question for you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

About father to son.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay, there you go then. We're in the right zone.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How do you impart like, wisdom to adult children without sounding naggy or preachy?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

I think that is one of the hardest things on earth is how to give adult children any advice and not feel dismissed or that you're being intrusive. I try to be really choosy when with what I give advice on and also the dynamics, the tables turn. You give me much more advice than I give you these days.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, I agree. I learn more from my two sons than I have to teach them.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. So it really. It really switches, but it still feels a little strange not to be able to say something. But usually I get in big trouble with you if I suggest something, especially if it has to do with any medical Anything.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I mean, what's your advice than to your children on how to give you advice that doesn't sound naggy or preachy or patronizing?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Patronizing? Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, you know, I don't think there's a. I don't think there's an answer. You can buy at a little book at the checkout stand at the grocery store. Otherwise, I think everybody'd know how to do it. Mom became a part of a group called Usual Suspects. I believe at the theater was New York theater. Workshop. New York Theatre workshop, where you were. You constantly preached a method of criticizing after reading of a new play.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, it's praise first.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

What is that? Deb Luhrmann's critical response theory?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah. Give it.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. Well, you say a good thing first, and then you ask people, is there any neutral response which I find impossible for any member of this family to have a neutral. Like, instead of, you know, why did you choose that hideous color green to cover your couch with? You say, what were you thinking of the color green in that material?

[Mandy Patinkin]

And then when do you give the criticism? After the neutral?

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

If somebody wants it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah. And then the criticism. Oftentimes people are very wounded by it. You know, you can have a mountain of good things. One little negative thing happens, and human beings just.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Well, that's particularly you, honey. That's why we call it Mandy Math.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You know, you think I'm unique in the human race.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

I think you are more sensitive. And teachers, 10 great things can happen. And if one shit thing happens, that one has to happen.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But that is a phenomenon the world over.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, that is a phenomenon.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I mean, we all experience that.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

But I actually think that's less with you kid, than anybody I know almost.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, that's because I've had these parents who maybe feel that greatly. I mean, I've learned.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Feel what greatly?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

The sensitivity of holding onto the one negative comment that happens. You can do a concert and have 10,000 people say, you're a genius. And one person goes, why'd you choose that song?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Who said that?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Larry? And then that's what sticks for you. But that's the great advantage of sometimes watching your parents struggle with things. If you're lucky, you get to not repeat some of that stuff and go a different way. I was trained watching you guys fixate on a negative thing, you know, in so many ways that. And it never really benefit you. Yeah, that allowed me to do that a little bit less.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, I want to hold that thought.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Can I say one other thing before you move on?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Sure.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That was one of the most extraordinary. That was the most extraordinary conversation I felt I ever had with you. We were out front of our apartment in New York, and we were walking and you were doing your work, and we were kind of talking shop about work and you were asking me questions, and then all of a sudden you just showed me your arms and you had your sleeves rolled up or you had a T shirt on and you had goosebumps. You see, dad, look. You said, dad, look, See? I got goosebumps all over my Arms. Because you said, I just realized that I spent my life watching you do wonderful work and then you would beat yourself up thinking something wasn't perfect or right. And I just learned that that was insane and worthless. And I couldn't understand why you did it. So I didn't do that for myself. And I burst into tears because I finally realized that it had some worth, that all of that self torture I put myself through, it had worth, that it taught you never to do that. Yeah. And even now when I retell it, I just am grateful that it had some value, that it kept you from being stupid.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, this is a thing in one way or another that I remind you of every 18 months or a couple years because it's easy to forget.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think human beings are the stupidest creatures on the planet.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

I'm getting dumber and dumber.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But I think your ability to be emotionally open with your family and your children, even through struggling, even through anxieties and struggles, allows those around you to take away those lessons. There's a lot of parents, and a lot of men in particular who have that, who feel all those things, but just keep it all bottled up. And you never get to see that as a kid, and you never get to an analyze. Okay, what did that give my dad? What did it take away from him? Yeah, some of your biggest struggles in life have been my biggest benefits. Because I've gotten to watch what's helped you and what hasn't.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And you can't imagine what kind of a gift that is to me to know that. I guess I would think of them as mistakes that I couldn't help because it's just who I was then that actually had value. And I couldn't see it until that day.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I don't need to imagine it. I know you very well and. Yeah, it feels great being able to share that with you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I adore you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

This is a new weird phenomenon. Mandy figured out that when he says that to my mom, she laughs for every time.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's like laughing. Guess when I say those words to her, it really.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How does it keep working?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I adore you. Really?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's it.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

This is just the irony.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Too much irony.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Please ask us another. Does anybody else?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes, Pat has a question.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Oh, Pat. Good. Lucky.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Pat was curious. What's something you've changed your mind about in your older years?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Wow, sex.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. That's a good one.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, I. A friend. It was actually. I'll say who it was. It was Claire Danes's mom. Told her. I think it was her mom that she said sex is the glue of a relationship. And I think that is initially got some validity. But I can say for a fact, as you get older, it's not that sex isn't nice or feels good and all of that, but it has nothing to do with being the glue to our relationship. Our relationship is the glue to our relationship. Time is the glue to our relationship history. I don't even have words.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Just seems like you have words.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, I mean everything. Everything that we've lived is, is the. Is the glue to our relationship. And I'm not criticizing Claire's mom. I think it's a valid statement at a certain point. But that has changed that. I cherish so many things far more than that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Something I've changed my mind about. I think I've been forced to. To reconsider what I'm in control of and not in control of in terms of getting older. Until very recently, I really felt all aging stuff was just bullshit and that I. I was in charge of how I was going to do this and I was not going to do it like other people because I was so special.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Finding more empathy for some of the absolute physiological challenges that may happen to some people 10 years earlier and some 10 years later. You know, I'm sort of stepping over the line of being defensive about, don't make an assumption about me because I have white hair and I can do anything you can do and thinking, hmm, I'm making some adaptations and I'm trying to think of it as not surrendering.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I had an interesting experience with you recently where you were getting nervous about doing a show in Singapore.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Oh, right.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That was quite a physical movement piece. You were worried about 17 hour flight and getting up on a table and dancing and getting knocked over by people moving around backstage in the dark. In the dark. And you were really scared in a way of feeling older. Like 78 is not 75.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

It isn't. I feel 100 years older than 75. It's weird.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And it was very tricky for me in that moment whether to say, yeah, do whatever makes you feel safe and take care of yourself versus do the fucking thing. You're a person who even at this age is very hungry for new experiences and is thriving off of connections and doing projects with other people where whatever you're doing, you're just trying to make it as good as possible. And I was still attached to that piece of the conversation, making that important than anything else. But we hung up from that conversation for the first time. I was like Oh, I don't know if that's good advice. How old are you? I don't want to push you into your.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

No, I know. I think it's interesting the ways in which adult children. Children deal with their aging parents or not. You know what I mean? And I'm very glad I went to Singapore, and I'm very glad you encouraged me. And I think if I ever really felt there was something that was really not worth the risk, I would listen to that. But I think I'd rather err on the side of risk and new experience.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And that's.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And that's why. I mean, at the end of that conversation, I was like, well, like, how.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

Would I feel if she did die on the table?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Off the table and die? I was like, well, she'd be doing a very Catherine thing, and she's doing a show with amazing people.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And, you know, who else in our family has taught us this lesson? Someone in our family's taught us this. Consciously or unconsciously. We've had discussions about it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What's the lesson of doing the risk?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Being free. Do the risk. Live our dog, Becky.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Because the. The idea was, until we found the satellite collar so she wouldn't go over the driveway and get hit by a car.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And she's been porcupine five times, I think, and taken to the emergency hospital. Yeah, but, but, but she has this place to run around and. And she could. There are coyotes, there are porcupines. There are things that could happen. But we always said she's had the great life. She's having a great life. And even if she got taken out, she got taken out. She got taken out doing. Loving her life.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, and that's.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

I said I wanted to go out, you know, mid conversation, and you said mid gesticulation. So I want to be as alive as I can, but it's only this year that I've been very, very lucky, you know.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So you want to. You want to die Mid conversation, mid gesticulation. So that's like. Like a heart attack or like an anvil falling on your head or something.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

I mean, I just like to go, I guess, mid living, you know, not. Not diminished to the point where I don't know where I am or don't know things. And it is. It. It takes a kind of courage that I didn't realize before. You know, I understand more than I ever did, the resigning, you know, the submission to an idea of how you're supposed to be older, because it takes more energy, you don't have this image of a battery, you know, that you're born with this battery and you don't even know it. It just goes 24 7. And then all of a sudden, just recently, I suddenly heard this. I said, where the hell is that sound coming from? And it's me and it's my battery, and it's saying, you need to recharge me. You need to take care of me for the first time. It's called plug me in by taking a nap. I never took a nap in my life. Was not interested, didn't need to. Dad needed naps when he was 25. I did not need a nap until I was 78. You know, there have been incredible people that are really thrilling to hear about how they're loving being 94. Yes, they miss not driving anymore, but everything else is fuller, greater, more relaxed, et cetera, you know, and there's a lot of encouragement and a lot of wisdom as opposed to denial and just, you know, shelving people of a certain age, you know, and a lot of unhappy 20 year olds, you know, that's for sure.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, thanks, guys.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I would like to just advise our audiences to listen to what my wife just said.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's great advice, dad.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And not to listen to the title that says, don't listen to us. Listen to Catherine, not us.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

I would like now, in front of all of you, to just ask my beloved son if I ever have a suggestion about a medical expert that it might behoove him to say, you know what, thanks for that. I'm going to write down that information in case I ever need it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I do say that, but you are out of control. I sneeze and I get 23 contacts for your nose and throat doctor and an eye doctor and a foot doctor.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

You were all weight. You couldn't stop your nose from bleeding. And I said, you might want to see a good ear for your bloody nose instead of a person up here that didn't find a tick in the dad's eardrum.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'd like to thank you so much for all of your suggestions, and I will be taking all of them. All right, do you guys know what time it is?

[Mandy Patinkin]

And I leave you with this thought. It's a dollar for a minute, just a minute of my time. The maximum is 50, and the medium's your mind. The minute that you get here and the door begins to close, clock starts a rolling, so you best be on your toes. We can talk about your mother and nail her to the wall. I'll call you schizophrenic and I teach you how to crawl for only $50 I'll explain to you nuts and you'll thank me and you pain because I made you spill your guts. I'm Agnicombe from Harvard island seven fountain pens. I live in Nova Scotia on the weekends for a tan I own a new Mercedes, a camper and a van but it's a the simple things in life that make a man a man.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Crazy people La la la la la.

[Mandy Patinkin]

La la Crazy crazy people hey now oh yeah. See you next week.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Would you license that original number to this show for an affordable or can we not afford? We probably can't afford.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You need to talk to my people.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thanks for all the callers. We want to hear from you. More questions, stories, advice for us, things you're thinking about. You can send an email to askmandyandkatherinemail.com that's Kathryn K A T H R Y N. Or check out Socials for an easy way to send a voice note and thank you so much for being here and tuning in. And let's be perfectly clear. Don't Listen to Us.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And if you've been listening, you've learned that lesson.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't Listen to Us is a Lemonada Media original hosted by Mandy Patinkin, Katherine Grody and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Created by Katrina Onstad, Debbie Pacheco and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Executive producers are Katherine Grody, Gideon Grody Pitinkin, Mandy Padinkin, Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles Wax. Our engineer is Ryan Derringer of Welterweight Sound, Video and audio production by Mark Whiteway of Bellows Media. Thanks to Lemonada's lead engineer, Ivan Kurayev. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Media Premium yet, now's the perfect time. You can hear Don't Listen to Us completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like behind the scenes conversations, questions so weird they didn't make it on air, Becky the Dog shenanigans and more. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple podcasts. Head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out. We want to be really clear. We are not doctors or licensed therapists, just people with a lot of opinions. If you're facing a serious issue, especially related to mental health or addiction. We strongly encourage you to speak with a qualified professional. You are not alone. You deserve real help, not just a podcast.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hey, everybody. I just want to remind you that my beautiful wife's play that she wrote and performs a one woman show called the Unexpected Third. Then there's some more to the title that I can't remember.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

The rest is a radical, rollicking rumination on the optimism of staying alive, also.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Known as the Unexpected Third. It's going to be in Malvern, Pennsylvania for quite a number of weeks from.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

September 17th to October 19th. And Malvern is just outside Philadelphia, right?

[Mandy Patinkin]

So it's not far. It's like a suburb, I'm telling you. I saw an early rendition of this play in a rehearsal studio with nothing but neon lights on the ceiling, and it blew me away and everyone else in the room. I obviously am prejudiced. I'm a fan of my wife. She's written many things, all wonderful, but this one, I swear to you, you will not be disappointed. It takes the cake. She. It is her gift to us all. Come see it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. It's my favorite show.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yep.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mom is having to suffer through us.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

You know, very uncomfortable sitting and hearing this, and I'm a nervous wreck. You'll never like it as much as you do.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes, he will.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That means it's going to be good. She's a total actor. Dress in this way, always worry.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

The Unexpected Third at the People's Light Theater in Malvern, Pennsylvania, from September 17 to October 19.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Starring Catherine Grody, the one and only.

[Katherine Grody Patinkin]

It's a wonderful.