Toxic Parents, Immigrant Stories and Weird Hobbies

Summary

Podcast Summary: Don't Listen to Us

Episode: Toxic Parents, Immigrant Stories and Weird Hobbies
Hosts: Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody, Gideon Grody Patinkin
Date: February 25, 2026
Producer: Lemonada Media

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Overview

This episode of Don’t Listen to Us explores the complexities of immigrant family histories, practical boundaries with parents, and the delights of unexpected hobbies. As always, the trio balances humor, warmth, and candid personal revelations while taking listener questions about immigration stories and how to navigate “surface” relationships with toxic parents. The family’s playful dynamic and willingness to be vulnerable make this episode especially rich for listeners seeking both comfort and new perspective.

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Segment 1: Family Banter, Fitness & Life Updates

Timestamps: 00:11 – 04:05

• The episode opens with light banter about Kathryn’s phone ringer ("Mandy Patinkin, Mandy Patinkin," [00:24]), family tech habits, and Mandy’s new fitness regimen.
• Mandy gushes about his new training routine, extolling the benefits of aging well, gym communities in their 70s–90s, and his newfound enthusiasm:

  "I've been on it now for two weeks of diet. Strict as can be. I can't tell you how much better I feel… it was like a game changer." – Mandy ([03:00])

• Gideon jokes about the possibility of Mandy’s "romantic excitement" for his trainer ([03:14]), prompting laughter from Kathryn.

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Segment 2: Listener Question—Family Immigrant Histories

Timestamps: 04:05 – 19:50

Kathryn’s Story

• Kathryn shares her paternal family’s immigration from Russia (1904, just before the Russian Revolution), her grandfather’s garment factory in Brooklyn, and the mysterious, abrupt move to California:

  “In the middle of the night in 1925, my grandfather put his wife, his three children in a Model T Ford... Changed the name from Gorodetsky to Grody.” – Kathryn ([06:06])

• Discussion on why the move was so sudden—possible “garment wars” involving Italian and Jewish mafias in NYC in the 1920s.
• Reflection on generational change, assimilation, and the bittersweet loss of a beloved family photograph (destroyed by dogs licking off the horse glue, [07:52]).
• Emphasis on the myth of America as “the best country on earth that never did anything bad” propagated in immigrant households ([08:25]).
• Fond memories of childhood candies (Abazaba, Almond Roca) and family stores ([08:51]).

Mandy’s Story

• Mandy references their appearance on Finding Your Roots and admits difficulty remembering all genealogical details ([11:24]).
• His grandfather Max and family emigrated from Belarus; reveals how border changes cause confusion in family lore ([12:22]).
• In the Patinkin family, four brothers married four sisters, all first cousins, which becomes fodder for jokey reflection on inherited quirks:

  “So that is the excuse that many in our family use for whatever insanity you think we behold.” – Mandy ([13:08])

• A broader reflection by Kathryn on the radicalism of America’s founding ideals and the ongoing immigrant drive:

  “This idea that any human being has a right to pursue happiness… I never realized what a radical idea that was in the world.” – Kathryn ([13:33])

Political Context & Personal Views

• The family discusses the current political climate, ICE raids, and anti-immigrant sentiment, making powerful historical parallels:

  "Every person who's not a Native American in this country is an immigrant or brought here by force from slavery.” – Mandy ([19:40])

• Kathryn’s hope: “But I'm hoping that the extreme of this will really swing back and help us make a fair system here for everybody.” ([17:03])
• Gideon and Kathryn highlight community resistance and mutual aid—a mix of humor and activism (e.g., protests in inflatable animal costumes, [17:22]).

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Segment 3: Listener Question—Facing Surface Relationships with Parents (with guest “Known”)

Timestamps: 20:10 – 41:34

Guest’s Story

• “Known,” a listener from Southern California, describes surface relationships with emotionally volatile parents, boundaries, and the grief of missed potential in family connections ([21:33]–[24:48]).

  “…what might have been, what could have been… I suppose because I’m at a place in my life where the relationships I value the most are ones where I can truly be fully, infallibly, me, myself.” – Known ([22:38])

• Reflecting on repair attempts with parents, including coffee with an estranged father after 15 years ([24:53]).
• Emphasis on boundaries: “We're not going to talk about anything in the past. I want to get to understand who you are as a person now.” – Known ([25:43])

Kathryn’s Advice

• Advocates for “chosen kin” when blood relationships are too costly emotionally.

  “It really depends on what it costs you in your present health and your present well being. How much of that do you want to sacrifice to repair what might not be repairable?” – Kathryn ([28:11])

• Recounts her own family boundaries at a funeral as an example of honoring emotional truth ([28:55]).

Mandy and Gideon's Perspective

• Mandy reflects on volatile personalities, family history, and the paradox that "the worst comes out" with those we feel safest with.

  “I do know that for me… the worst, the best comes out of me, and the worst can come out of me to be witnessed.” – Mandy ([32:44])

• Credits Gideon and family for helping him grow and not giving up.

  “I’ve been blessed with people that don’t give up on me... makes me better.” – Mandy ([34:27])

• Gideon underscores the importance of repair, listening, and the difference between people who facilitate growth versus those unable or unwilling to change ([35:23]–[36:33]):

Known’s Reflections & Closing Thoughts

• Known describes empathy for his father from understanding generational trauma, remains open to gradual connection:

  “We’re all gonna die… I don’t want to give up on [the chance of growth]... I’m proud of myself for getting to that place.” – Known ([38:43])

• Kathryn warmly encourages embracing small, even “surface-level,” connections if they offer peace: “There are so many varieties of kinds of relationships, and... there’s all gradations that can have value depending on what you need from that particular person.” ([40:25])
• Mandy: “Life is a messy thing. And, you know, for better or worse, it is.” ([41:08])

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Segment 4: Hobbies—Extreme Ironing and More

Timestamps: 41:40 – 45:20

• Gideon pitches “extreme ironing” as a possible new hobby for Mandy, who takes the idea to its absurd, enthusiastic extreme:

  “I'm gonna get 10 different irons. And 10 different ironing boards. I'm gonna probably buy 30 [shirts] just in case I burn some.” – Mandy ([42:38])

• Playful speculation about ironing in Norway under the northern lights, sled-dog ironing, and the perils of ironing in Costa Rica’s humidity.
• Kathryn fondly remembers Aunt Ida's meditative ironing and notes modern-day clothing doesn't even need ironing ([44:32]).
• Family agrees the next episode will not be dedicated solely to ironing ([45:02]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You wouldn't be here in this country without open welcoming arms to your ancestors at some point in history.” – Mandy ([04:08])
• “Hurt people, hurt people. And the fact that you have been able to overcome that own pain... is a real victory of your own humanity and your own healing.” – Kathryn ([40:36])
• “What's so bad about being woke when all you gotta do is wake up?” – Mandy ([19:55])
• “That's why I like her more.” – Gideon, joking about Kathryn’s generosity with food ([10:41])
• “Don’t listen to us. I really think that needs to be printed on my forehead.” – Mandy ([30:56])

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Episode Flow & Tone

• The conversation glides effortlessly from humor to gravitas, punctuated with asides, loving teasing, and mutual support.
• The hosts model emotional self-awareness (“I’m so jealous,” “I’ve made some progress, and I’ve made a lot of not-progress”) and forthrightness.
• They create a safe space for vulnerability, particularly for listeners wrestling with family pain, boundaries, and questions about duty versus self-preservation.

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Standout Timestamps

• [04:05] – Mariana’s question prompts stories of immigration, assimilation, and family lore.
• [13:33] – Kathryn’s powerful reflection on America’s ideal of “pursuing happiness.”
• [20:10] – Known’s moving call about navigating relationships with toxic parents.
• [32:44] – Mandy’s open discussion of anger, healing, and redemption within family.
• [42:29] – Gideon introduces “extreme ironing;” a moment of levity and playful absurdity.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a crystallization of the show’s best qualities: raw honesty, forgiveness, community-mindedness, and the power of storytelling to link personal history with the present. Whether they’re untangling family trauma, urging kindness to immigrants, or finding meditation in ironing, Mandy, Kathryn, and Gideon offer both laughter and solace for listeners who crave both wisdom and the reassurance of shared struggle.

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Call to Action

• Listeners are encouraged to share their own stories—especially from immigrants or those walking the line between distance and hope with complicated parents.
• For those looking to get involved, the hosts recommend:
  • Indivisible (indivisible.org)
  • National Immigrant Justice Center (immigrantjustice.org)

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“Life is a messy thing... for better or worse, it is. Some wonderful blessings and some amazing challenges. I wish you everything.”
— Mandy Patinkin ([41:08])

Transcript

[Known]

Lemonade.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Phones are muted or off.

[Kathryn Grody]

Did you change the ring of my phone when you were.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, I didn't touch that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mom. Would you like your phone

[Kathryn Grody]

to be a flip phone and be off all this? Totally.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, sure. Maybe we'll revisit that. Oh, no, I was gonna say, would you like your phone to, when it rings, say husband. Husband. Instead of Mandy Patinkin. Mandy Patinkin. Mandy Patinkin. Because I can help you make a habit. It's very weird. It's very weird to just be in public with you and your phone starts yelling Mandy Patinkin.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, I would like that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

All right. Welcome to our podcast, don't listen to us or take it or leave it advice podcast. I am Gideon Goody Patinkin, son of

[Kathryn Grody]

you, Kathryn Grody, and Mr. Potenkin.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mr. Dinkin. We're here taking people's calls. Questions, experiences.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We'll also take your money. Send it in.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We'll take your money.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No. What's the matter with you?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, we only accepted in bespoke hand woven manila. Right, dad, you've started a new workout regiment. Lifting weights.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, he's amazing. I'm so jealous.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I tell you, I'm beyond excited about it. I've been doing it. I've had five sessions with this wonderful new trainer. He's just a magical human being. And I saw him working out a man who was, I believe, 75, in the gym, a different gym that I normally don't go to, and I couldn't believe what this guy was doing on one leg standing on a Bosu ball, you know, the Bosu balls, that half ball with the platform on it. So it's really hard. And one leg and having a 35 or 40 pound kettlebell in his right hand, going up and down over the head on one leg and then doing all kinds of things. There's a 93 year old woman, I believe that presses 150 pounds. They're all, what do you press, what do you bench? And then there's, there's. It's all people that are, you know, sort of in their 70s.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Or 80s or 90s. And. And then he changed. You know, we talked about diet and supplements and so I just got rid of everything. I've been on it now for two weeks of diet. Strict as can be. I can't tell you how much better I feel. I had a concert on Friday night. The improvement I felt in my core because of the concert was. I don't even have words for it. It was like a game changer.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Make a new word for it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And I just. I'm ecstatic about it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Wow, mom, this enthusiasm.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm so jealous.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Does it make you nervous? Do you think there's something going on? Dad and this guy. Romantic excitement.

[Kathryn Grody]

The excitement.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm hoping to get mom into it as well.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We're gonna go to our first listener question today. I really like this one. It's a question from Mariana, and it's an email, so we don't need to put it on the headphones, and I'll just read it to you. Hi, Katherine and Mandy and Gideon. Not all of us, but a lot of us in America come from people who came from somewhere else. It feels like we're forgetting that right now. You guys have talked about your grandparents who came from elsewhere. I'm curious. What are each of your family's immigrant stories? When did they arrive in America, and what were their experiences like? Appreciate you taking my question, Mariana.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Via Italy.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thanks to my parents.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, wow. First of all, we're all immigrants in this country, and I beg Americans to please be kinder to our fellow immigrants that. That are being brutalized and hated and deported to foreign countries that weren't even their previous homes, places where they could be in danger. You wouldn't be here in this country without open welcoming arms to your ancestors at some point in history. And so let's just. Well, I don't even remember the question because I hear the word immigrant, and what's going on with. With people in this world right now towards immigrants? It's so cruel. And I think my ancestors. Oh, yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

The question was just what is the story?

[Kathryn Grody]

I'd love to tell that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, go ahead, Hunter. Sorry, I just got.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I know it's a crazy time.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's a crazy time.

[Kathryn Grody]

My dad's parents came at a really amazing time. They came in 1904, one year before the Russian Revolution. And my. My dad's dad's name was Max Gorodetsky. He landed in Brooklyn. He started a garment factory. One of my biggest treasures that our dogs destroyed, and it still kills me, was one of those cardboard photos with my grandpa Max surrounded by this bevy of immigrant women from all over the world that seemed to like him. And he was here for 25 years, and his name was Max Gorodetsky. My dad. Birth certificate said Israel Gorodetsky.

[Known]

And.

[Kathryn Grody]

And in the middle of the night in 1925, my grandfather put his wife, his three children in a Model T Ford, and in the middle of the night, started driving from Brooklyn to San Pedro, California.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Wow.

[Kathryn Grody]

Which is as far away as you could get. Changed the name from Gorodetsky to Grody.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Also changed his first name.

[Kathryn Grody]

Changed his first name.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What was the change of the first name?

[Known]

Israel.

[Kathryn Grody]

Israel. He changed to what? To. That was my dad's name. He changed my dad's name to Irving. He changed the name from Gordetsky to Gorodi and opened another.

[Mandy Patinkin]

His first name.

[Kathryn Grody]

His first name was Max. So I guess.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, but it was Max Felt a little more Jewy.

[Known]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

But also he changed his name from Gordesky, which I always thought was so interesting because he was here for 25 years. It's not like it happened at Ellis Island.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Weren't they also fleeing garment wars?

[Mandy Patinkin]

What?

[Kathryn Grody]

I was in the Italian.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, this is Mom's hypothetical.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, this is what I found out. I can't understand why else. There were garment wars between the Italians and the jews during the 20s. Yeah, that would. I'm sorry, I don't mean to disparate.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Jewish Mafia. There's Italian Mafia, everybody.

[Kathryn Grody]

Whatever. There were wars that. My grandfather. Evidently I didn't know this when he was alive because he died when I was 13, so I could never ask him. I didn't know about this until like.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But you don't have proof of this. You're just thinking this is.

[Kathryn Grody]

No, but that's the history. And there was something he did that made them leave with no warning.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

In the middle of the night and change his name and change his family's name.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's not something you do without some dangerous.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We had great picture of him to support Mom's theory with him and all the women at the factory.

[Kathryn Grody]

That's what I just said.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Did you say what happened to the picture? That's what I just said.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That the dogs licked.

[Mandy Patinkin]

She said that too. Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Did you go somewhere else?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Did the dogs lick the picture?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

She said the dogs destroyed it.

[Kathryn Grody]

They destroyed it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I didn't say they licked the old glue.

[Kathryn Grody]

It was horse glue or something. So they licked the picture off. Which just kills me.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm sorry. When mom talks sometimes.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You both have that.

[Kathryn Grody]

It's part of the whole conversation. Anyway. So that was them twice. And I'm named after his wife, My grandma Katie. And who died before I was born but knew my mom and dad were pregnant with me. And so I've always had a connection with her.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And do you remember growing up having a sense that America was made of immigrants or did that?

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, what also came with that is that it was the best country on earth. That never did anything bad.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Right.

[Kathryn Grody]

And so I grew. And my other. My mom's parents came in 1928, right before the Depression, so that was a whole different experience. And they had a little grocery store, and evidently. And I remember I always got a free abazaba when we went to visit them. It was where the Marque Tape Forum in LA is now, Bunker Hill.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What's an abazaba?

[Kathryn Grody]

It was a great taffy candy with peanut butter inside it. Anyway, then.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What's your favorite candy now?

[Kathryn Grody]

Almond Roca or Sie's Almond Toffee Yets, but I don't eat that anymore.

[Known]

Foreign.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Dad, would you say I grew up in a home where you and mom cooked a lot?

[Mandy Patinkin]

No.

[Known]

Why?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Why do you think there wasn't more cooking time?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Time, time. When you're busy, it's tough. Mostly. You got to go shopping. You got to pick everything up. You got to plan it, you got to do this, you got to do that. You get a little stress.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You get overwhelmed with, like, the measuring cups, the measuring spoons. I feel like you think people steal things from your kitchen and don't put them back.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, no, no. It's. It's a little trick or this spoon or this cup, and I can't find it. Mom sometimes doesn't put them away. You come over and borrow them, take them over to your house, somebody doesn't bring it back, and you want to jump out the window. And so, yes, it's a little challenging.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mom also doesn't believe that there's a difference between a quarter teaspoon and a tablespoon.

[Mandy Patinkin]

She's not into the numbers. Yeah, yeah. She cooks by feeling and color. And color.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I feel like Marley Spoon has made a real difference for you guys, huh?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, yeah. It's take. You know what? It's. It's like GPS for driving. We're not screaming each other about directions. It's simple. It's all there. It's right there. And the food's terrific. We're happy. And then we go watch a movie.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You guys were going on about the lemon pepper chicken with broccoli and pinto beans you had the other night. But I didn't. I didn't get an invitation for that. What was.

[Known]

Why?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah. Because I was hungry, and I didn't want to share it. I mean, you know, with mom, she'll give you all the food off her plate since you were born. I'm not that way.

[Known]

I don't.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I don't. I don't like sharing.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's why I Like her more.

[Kathryn Grody]

That's right.

[Mandy Patinkin]

This podcast is sponsored by Marley Spoon, and I'm genuinely excited about this because it's helping me fast track my way to eating well without losing my mind. Head to marley spoon.com offer don't listen for up to 25 free meals. That's marleyspoon.com offer don'tlisten for up to 25 free meals. Please invite me over for dinner.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Dad, what's your immigrant story? Where did your people come from?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Grandpa Max came over. I think he had a brother. We got all this because you got us on that show. You got me on that show. Finding your roots. And so we have the exact information, but I don't hold on to it all that well. You probably remember it better than I. His brother David came over first, and then he was here, and then he went back and got killed, which was

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

an incredibly rare story at the time for somebody to immigrate to America and then return back to their home country. And I think it was because he

[Mandy Patinkin]

get killed alone or the whole family.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

He was missing home too much and found a way to get back and then got killed.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Murdered. Murdered from a robbery or something.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, but I think that some of his children ended up in camps.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's right.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I mean, you always thought we didn't have family, got killed in the Holocaust and found out. But I just want to remember they came over from Belarus.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That is what we found out originally. I thought it was bronze Poland initially, but the. The research that they did on finding your roots was that. Actually it was Belarus that my father's side was from.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And I don't remember. My mother's side was from where I thought they didn't do that. Well, they did, but I can't remember.

[Kathryn Grody]

Lithuania, I think.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Anyway, they weren't from here.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, the borders changed so much constantly.

[Mandy Patinkin]

The Russian, Polish, Belarusian borders. Anyway, he came. It was four brothers. My grandfather had three other brothers. So those four brothers married these four sisters. And the four brothers and four sisters were first cousins.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So that is the excuse that many in our family use for whatever insanity you think we behold.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Apparently genetically, it's come out that you can have kids with your first cousin.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well. But you know what's interesting?

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's what I heard.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Are you interested in.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I wouldn't recommend it. I'm just saying genetically, it should be fine. I think you get into problems when several generations keep intermarrying, keep fucking each other.

[Kathryn Grody]

You know what's so interesting to me about it? And especially now that I've seen the first episode of Ken Burns American Revolution, which I recommend to everybody. This idea that any human being has a right to pursue happiness. I never realized what a radical idea that was in the world, that just there were hierarchies that were established in every culture that had its kings and its servants and its touchables and untouchables. And that idea, from the very beginning, as poorly as we have lived it and acted on it, the aspiration of it, the idea of it, the mythology of it, is so powerful. You know, from my grandparents thinking they could live better lives and less restricted lives as Jews, as people in this America, to our new friends from Afghanistan, who, when I apologize to them of them coming here at this very difficult time, the most difficult time in my experience, they look at me and like, not compared to what we just went through. You know, that notion is so powerful and so unique to us. Do you know that it still is in the zeitgeist of people that are having difficult lives because no one wants to leave home? I'm very moved by the immigrant experience. And it's something worth fighting to remind any of the deluded people here that that is not what we are as a nation of immigrants.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I mean, when you see videos of people being arrested and kidnapped by ice, do you see your ancestors? Do you see your family?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, absolutely.

[Kathryn Grody]

Absolutely.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I see friends that we helped bring over here, and I'm worried about them. Every day they tell me that they're safe and the paperwork they have is okay. I see all kinds of people. People are being picked up that are legal American citizens.

[Kathryn Grody]

It is up because of the color

[Mandy Patinkin]

of their skin, the laws that are not being respected, the Constitution that's being ignored. Everything that's being broken down by this particular administration is out of comprehension.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You guys remember what happened though, in I think, was it North Carolina?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Massive response, massive protest. And then in five days of ICE landing there, they left and claimed that their operation finished.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, right.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It was clearly a response to huge swearing.

[Kathryn Grody]

There's unbelievably brave, really great actions going on in city by city and county by county.

[Mandy Patinkin]

There are sensible immigration quotas coming into this country and they have brought them down to virtually zero, unless you're a

[Kathryn Grody]

white South African, which is so insane that it's like really the onion or satire.

[Mandy Patinkin]

The level of hatred and racism and ignorance that's going on right now in our country is being felt by everyone of Republican, Independent and Democrat. This isn't just a even maga. People are being Outraged. And they are. They are showing their outrage at the ballot box. And. And that doesn't. That doesn't solve the problem. Problem. And that doesn't repair the damage that's been done to people's lives already that may never be recovered. Many will never be recovered with the damage that's been done. Like any war, it's a war on humanity.

[Kathryn Grody]

But I'm hoping that the extreme of this will really swing back and help us make a fair system here for everybody.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, I love some of the more creative responses I've seen to this. Like, two that come to mind was when Portland was being called a war zone.

[Kathryn Grody]

Right.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Everybody showing up to the detention centers in inflatable animal costumes and everything to be like, this is your war zone. A bunch of giraffes and frogs and like, Pokemon figures.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, yeah, okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You know, like meeting the horror with humor and creativity while also, you know, organizing. I mean, people are, you know, we just posted, people are going in the hundreds and thousands to trainings of how to support immigrant communities, how to film what your rights are, how to let people know their rights, what the calls are in community. People are whistling and calling when they see ice coming, telling folks to get indoors. Schools are locking up. There is an emerging vocabulary of how to keep.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Which is.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Which is from all of us working together, sir.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Look, we've avoided a lot of these political discussions so far on this podcast. I don't think that's helpful anymore. I think we're all talking where we're talking because we're just so infuriated and exhausted from it. I encourage our listeners, if you're listening and you have some personal stories to share with us of people that you knew and loved or worked for you and injustices that you've witnessed, call us and tell us about it. And I think just. And use our. Use our platform for some of that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And I think we'd also just love to hear from more immigrant voices, whether it's experiences or questions of crisis or also immigrant voices who are having fun or having silly things. Yeah, we've got. We're going to be, you know, posting an. Invite two more of those voices.

[Kathryn Grody]

Right.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And just want people to know that you can be anonymous on this show if you want to call in with a question or an experience.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think it's also important to remember what. While there is this crisis and this horror going on, there's also immigrants all over this country who are having fun, having beautiful times, doing wonderful things, medical

[Mandy Patinkin]

practitioners saving people's lives, finding Scientific cures for illnesses.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So it's easy to lose track of that part of the story when the horrible madness is being shouted at.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But Melania Trump's an immigrant and so are her parents. Immigrants.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And Donald Trump is a descendant of immigrants.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think your point is none of us are far from this experience.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So every person who's not a Native American in this country is an immigrant or brought here by force from slavery.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And wake up. Wake up.

[Kathryn Grody]

Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What's so bad about being woke when

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

all you gotta do is wake up? Okay, sorry.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Headphones are on.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So our next question is from a guest who has joined us. Hello, known. Hello, non. What do you want to talk to us about today? Are you with us? I am. Can you hear me?

[Known]

Oh, hi.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, there you are.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hi.

[Known]

So lovely to meet you.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, wow. Gnome. Look at those beautiful plants.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Known. Known.

[Known]

Known. Known.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Known. Like I, I, I've known that.

[Known]

Yes, exactly. Just spelled differently.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What's that name? What kind of name is that?

[Known]

It's made up. My parents made it up. They were hippies of sorts, and to them it means known by God. To me it means known by dog.

[Kathryn Grody]

I am so envious of those beautiful plants. I was just talking. We have literally both my sons, both our sons are great like you are with living things in their house. We have one plant that I've been trying to keep alive and it looks so bad, I'm debating whether to give it for remedial help to them or just give.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No. And I guess you're wondering why we called into your show today. Catherine had some questions about plants.

[Known]

Yes, let's talk about plants.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Noan, where are we talking to you? Where are we talking to you from today?

[Known]

Yeah, I live in Southern California.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Southern California, Nice.

[Kathryn Grody]

That's where I'm from.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And you have a question you wanted to share?

[Known]

I do, yeah. So I'll just start by saying I have surface relationships with both of my parents. And real quick, as kind of a form of protection, I would say boundaries. A little bit of seeing them for who they are and a little bit of meeting them where they are as well. I grew up as a sensitive kid. I think I still am a sensitive kid. Didn't always feel safe at home. My father was a bit emotionally volatile. My mother insisted that staying with him was God's will. I won't go into a ton of detail. Just point is they cause some harm for sure. I think I've worked through a lot of that in therapy and I suppose because of as I've gotten Older, I think I've softened toward them. I think who they were in their own way. They did what they knew was best, I think. And yet I still grieve and I suppose because they are my parents, because what might have been, what could have been, a different childhood and because I'm at a place in my life where the relationships I value the most are ones where I can truly be fully, infallibly, me, myself. And so my question is, and I would love to have a conversation about this is like, have you experienced in your life surface relationships either as partners or as friends or as a son and daughter? And how do you manage that? And do you have any tips?

[Kathryn Grody]

So they're no longer together?

[Known]

Correct. They, your parents? Correct.

[Mandy Patinkin]

They.

[Known]

They separated a few different times. They got divorced twice to each other and they separated finally maybe 15 plus years ago.

[Kathryn Grody]

So is it, has there been any assumption of responsibility? Has there been any accountability from either parent in terms of saying, I am sorry your childhood was so difficult and I would like to have a more intimate relationship and not just a surfer. Is the desire just from you or is it from either parent? And are your siblings on the same page with you?

[Known]

I would say some efforts to repair have been made on both my mother's and my father's side. I really haven't had a relationship with my father for about 15 years now, though we did have coffee for the first time in 15 years just a couple of months ago. My siblings, I would say, are. I can't speak for them, but it feels like we're all on different pages. I would say. I feel like if I were to kind of clarify for myself, it feels like I would like I was maybe the most sensitive and I was most impacted by some of the stuff that happened growing up.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What inspired you guys to have that cup of coffee after such a long time?

[Known]

Great question. I would say so. He had been reaching out for years and I think even just a few years ago it would have been like, just the thought of sitting with him, like in, in person with him would have been perhaps too emotionally challenging for me. And he had reached out and I, you know, just on my own end have been working through a lot of stuff and therapy and just growing myself as a human. And I, I felt content and okay and safe enough to just kind of meet him and it was, it was fine. I guess the one boundary I should, I should say the one boundary that I clarified for him was we're not going to talk about anything in the past. I want to get to Understand who you are as a person now. And it went, okay, great, that's important.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, and I want to ask, I want to poke around a little bit. What vocation are you involved in?

[Known]

I do a variety of things. I actually do some podcast consulting. I'm a sort of author, I suppose. I run an Airbnb. I do other types of consulting, empathy consulting for some organizations and I run the household with all of our horses and dogs and chickens.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Are you married? Do you have children?

[Known]

I am married. I've been Married for over 15 years now. No kids, just all the animals.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And do your siblings have similar difficulties with your parents?

[Known]

Again, I can't speak for them, but like, I do know that there have been difficulties, my father in particular, with my father who has a volatility about him that can be difficult to be around. He's just. Can be kind of a seething, emotionally fraught type of person that can be difficult.

[Kathryn Grody]

You know, I just want to say something. Families, I don't know. I have a younger brother who always refers to family damnamics, you know. And I think you want to connect to the people that are your blood kin. And sometimes it is possible, sometimes surface relationships are all you can have with them. I have a lot of what I call chosen kin, people that are. That I consider family that are not blood relatives. But it is just we have, you know, a 50 year relationship or a 30 year relationship or a five year where we just connect without all the sturm and drawing of that history, do you know? So I think it really depends on what it costs you in your present health and your present well being. How much of that do you want to sacrifice to repair what might not be repairable? I think it was brilliant for you to say to your dad, let's just start from now and see who we can be together, you know. But it's a matter of how much time do you want to spend on the past agonies or do you just accept that that was the past, do what you can to be kind and move on. I remember when my dad died, his sister wanted to show up at a memorial and my mom actually said to her, this is a gathering for the people that loved Irv. It's no time for crocodile tears. I'd be glad to see you some other time, but you are not welcome here today because she caused my father such pain. And the other relatives were aghast. Oh, you can't say that to my mother. She said, oh yeah, I can. On this day, when my husband suddenly died, I can do anything. So I think you balance how much space it takes up in your mind, you know, how much this bothers you that you have what you call surface and how much those surface relationships are as far as you can go with those people. And maybe just if you see your mom more often or if you see your siblings, that really starting in the present is great. I think it just depends on how much it aggravates you or aggrieves you, how much time it takes up is what I would think. You know, if. What you need to solve with them or you need to just let go.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What do you think about what Catherine said, Don?

[Known]

I think that's beautifully said. I think that as I've gotten older, I feel like I've defined or I've. I've continued to kind of clarify for myself what fills my heart and what makes sense for who I am. Obviously that's always changing and should be, I feel. But I think that that growth and that perspective gathering and that, you know, not being too precious about things has. Has led to a point where I can be a little bit softer toward parts of my past experiences with my parents that were very traumatic and. And seeing them for who they are. And at the same time, like, I. I yearn for and I starve for those relationships where we can, you know, and I. And I guess you find those in, like you said, your chosen kin or your partnerships or your friends, where we can, as humans, be fully present and not only be present, but just like, fall apart and, And. And be messy and. Yeah, get feedback and criticism and all those things that we need as humans. I. Those are the relationships that I cherish the most.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You know, I want. I want to say a few things. It's dicey ground, this whole podcast business, which has an element to it that people call in for advice from us, which I think is insane.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's where the title comes from.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Don't listen to Us. You know, and I really think that needs to be printed on my forehead. Don't listen to me. But at the same time, I hear your story that you're telling us, and I. I run it through the filter that I know best, which is myself. I have a volcanic personality. I don't know your father. I try to be as kind as can be. I came from a very kind father, and. But I have lost it twice with Gideon, my dear son, sitting across from me recently in an unacceptable way. But Gideon has inhaled and adopted

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

the

[Mandy Patinkin]

breadth and the nature of the leader of our family, which was our Uncle Mike, Catherine's brother, who was a Zen Buddhist monk, who. We've already said some of it already. Live in the moment. Don't go back, don't go forward. Be right here, right now. Onward. And Gideon has, you know, he will tell me immediately that this is unacceptable, the way I be. And also, let me just say this, and I'm not trying to defend your father or those ways or condone it or myself, but I do know that for me, I don't behave this in an inappropriate way. Sometimes in the past I have, but nothing like what I'll allow to be seen by my sons, my two sons and my wife. They have seen the absolute worst of me because I think consciously, but more unconsciously, I feel safe. And so the worst, the best comes out of me, and the worst can come out of me to be witnessed. But what. What Gideon has. Has blessed me with more than anyone I really know in my life is helping me let go of it. Because I see him just moving on, saying what he needs to say, moving on. So I get to a point where I take a nap. I literally am. It's like Jekyll Hyde. I literally recover because I'll get so upset and I can't control something, and then I'll write a note of genuine love and admiration and unconditional love, and also expressing that I'm out of my fucking mind at times. And some of it I can change, and some of it I can't change. But I was using the excuse of this is who I am. This is who I've always been. I've worked really hard on myself, and I've made some progress, and I've made a lot of. Not progress also in other areas. But. But. But I've been blessed, whether it's with children or a wife or friends or any entity or human communicator, you know, any. My dog communicates with me. But I've. I've been blessed with people that don't give up on me and that. That don't give up on me. And I think, you know, I think there are incidences when, whether it's a parent or a brother, a sibling relative or a stranger can wound us so deeply that the wisest thing to do for the rest of our lives is to stay away. Like a poison that, you know, don't eat that mushroom ever again. But if it's at all possible to be the leader in your family or in the relationship and say, I can't fix you, you are who you are, that's up to you, whether or not you want to stop drinking or yelling or not listening or holding on to whatever you're holding on to. But I'm not going to do that. And I'm going to go for the best till the day you die or the day I die. And I just. I've had the privilege of experiencing this with Gideon, and he doesn't give up on me. And it makes me better. And I, you know, the Gideon fingerprint and the Mandy fingerprint have nothing to do with the known fingerprint and known's dad fingerprint. And so I know that. But what can I shine? I'll be quiet now. I've said enough.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, I appreciate all that, dad, and I appreciate you sharing that. And I think an important element here in the people close to you in your life who you feel haven't given up on you is because you have other qualities that make it worth not giving up on you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Right.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

If somebody is, you know, if somebody's experiencing a temper or a difficult thing and not listening or feels something is unfair in a relationship, you know, they have to have other rewards in that relationship that make it worth not giving up. You know, you. You might, you know, lose your temper sometimes with your family or, you know, have a difficult time communicating. And I think you're right. I think it's a universal thing. We often save the worst for those who are closest to us. But the reason I don't give up on you and your closest people have is because you also have the capacity for self awareness, self humor, the ability to apologize, the ability to never stop working on yourself. You have all these things, and there's

[Kathryn Grody]

a boundary of love.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes. That are very special and that make it feel like there can be progress out of that moment and an ability to reflect and take responsibility for one's actions. A lot of people, a lot of men, a lot of dads in particular out there don't have those other elements.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Why?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Because I would argue, because you're raised that way. Sea of toxic masculinity, never being able to talk about your emotions. You grew up in the theater. You grew up around all these people mining emotions, telling stories about their feelings. What is your motivation? What's the action you're playing?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I know, but I just don't feel that different from other Joes out there.

[Kathryn Grody]

That's.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Most of the other Joes out there that you've known have also been in the theater. You might not feel different, but you are. You're exceptionally different. But this just brings me back to a Question for known, which is

[Mandy Patinkin]

like,

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

how did you feel after your coffee with your dad? Did you feel there was enough there that was interesting and meaningful for you to keep having a relationship, to keep exploring that?

[Known]

Such a thoughtful question. And I, I think both what Mandy and Gideon, what you have said is very wise and I think there's a lot of stuff to pull from that. I would say that the meeting we had over coffee a couple months ago, again, we hadn't really spoken or had face to face time in over 15 years. I was a little apprehensive going into it. And I could also tell that he was very nervous. And that nervousness, I think, is a vulnerability in and of itself. I also have to remember that, you know, with empathy comes like looking at context and looking at history and looking at the whole picture. And one thing that has allowed me to soften with him specifically is understanding that, you know, Mandy, you mentioned your father. My, my dad's dad, as I've known it, or as it was described to me, he had a pretty kind of loveless childhood. You know, he didn't have a ton of love or warmth in his world. And that paints a picture, right? That tells a story that influences us. And so I do have to remember those bits. And so specifically to your question, Gideon, I would say that, I mean, we're all gonna die, right? He's in his early 70s. I'm not saying we're, you know, we're all gonna die. We're all gonna leave this earth to go wherever we're gonna go. And I don't want to give up on like that. Like, maybe there is some growth there. And I do, I am open to it. And I think, I think I'm proud of myself for getting to that place. And I don't know if it will be possible to have a deep, meaningful relationship with him. But I feel like I'm open to the idea of being in his life. I'll say that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Right. Go ahead, hun.

[Kathryn Grody]

I just want to say now I'm very moved by the fact that with all these difficulties, you are clearly a person that's not afraid to feel, that's not afraid to connect with people, that is making this effort. And maybe your relationship with this person will just be having a cup of coffee every once in a while. And if that feels better to you and better for your wounded heart that is trying to heal than never seeing him again, then I think that's a good thing to happen. And we have so many varieties of kinds of relationships, and I Think sometimes we don't give. You know, the emphasis is on intimate, incredibly meaningful, loving the best. There's all gradations that can have value depending on what you need from that particular person.

[Known]

Do you know that's true?

[Kathryn Grody]

And I think the diversity of relationships is important and adds different things to our lives, too.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That was Becky agreeing.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That was Becky agreeing. Our dog.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. No, I just want to say this is something I know. You know that old expression, hurt people, hurt people.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Right.

[Kathryn Grody]

And the fact that you have been able to overcome that own pain from your initial experience as a kid and not pass it on is a real victory of your own humanity and your own healing. It was lovely, lovely, lovely meeting you. Lovely seeing those beautiful plants. And say hello to the horses.

[Known]

I will so love to meet you, too.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, same here. We had a teacher that I never forgot. Her words to both of us once were, life is a messy thing. And, you know, for better or worse, it is. It's a messy thing. Some wonderful blessings and some amazing challenges. I wish you everything.

[Kathryn Grody]

Have a great day. No. Say hello to my home state.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thank you so much for calling in, man. And I hope to talk to you again.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Thank you so much.

[Known]

Appreciate you all.

[Kathryn Grody]

Take care now.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay, for our last little segment here before we wrap up today. Dad, you had mentioned before that you desperately needed hobbies and that you wanted hobbies, and I said I'd bring you some on this show, and so I just want to pitch you one. And the one I learned about that I thought you could be really good at is extreme ironing. So this started off as a joke in the late 90s, and the first and only world championship was held in Germany in 2002. And people have participated in extreme ironing, ironing their shirts on an ironing board. They've done this while skydiving, while underwater, while rock climbing.

[Kathryn Grody]

How can you iron underwater?

[Mandy Patinkin]

What do you think I'm going to get? I'm gonna get 10 different irons.

[Known]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And 10 different ironing boards.

[Known]

Yes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm gonna buy 20 different shirts. I'm gonna probably buy 30 just in case I burn some.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And I'm gonna begin training because I talked to you about my other physical training. I'm gonna incorporate this in my training routine. I can't imagine a better way to get away from my troubles.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And where are some extreme ironing spots you think you'll try some ironing at

[Mandy Patinkin]

some of the underarm areas of the shirt? Because sometimes those pinch the hairs under my arms.

[Known]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And I think

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

he's Maybe misunderstood the fundamentals of the sport.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, no. Then the locations for irony. I would. I wouldn't choose Costa Rica. I just find it too humid. So it's pretty hard to get the humidity out of the garment.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No matter how long you iron for. And I feel you're in danger of burning.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Sure.

[Mandy Patinkin]

A hole. So I would go to, I guess, Norway. I'd like to see the northern light.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Would you do it while skiing?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, I could do it while skiing. I would. I would. I would have somebody be pulling me in a sled skiing in front of me.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Sled dog ironing.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Sled dog ironing. I would do that. I. I'm not against. I know there's a lot of hubbub about, you know, Mr. Bezos and taking people, you know, of means up in space, but if I bumped into him, I'd make an exception just to practice the ironing.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thank you for bringing it to the next level. You can send other hobby ideas our way and will get my dad right on that. Ma, you don't need any hobbies.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You're so busy. You have so many friends. Do you need a new hobby?

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, I would love to do. I would learn to mend things better in a creative way with threads and stuff like Jenny does.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay.

[Kathryn Grody]

You know, and I actually had an image when you were talking about this absurd subject. My Aunt Ida, who I adored, was the only person I ever saw iron. And I realized that she did it as a meditation because it really took her out of whatever she was unhappy about. I mean, she would make these starch. We don't own any clothes that need ironing. I mean, we don't even have clothing that needs ironing anymore.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Next episode will be entirely ironing.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, yeah. And there will be another person and subbing for me. That'll be the tip of this will be. That's really. I know. I don't ever need to talk about ironing in my entire life again.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's what this moment has taught me.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes.

[Kathryn Grody]

That's what this showed.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Out of luck, because we loved it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, then, everybody, here we go. Ending the show. Thanks for listening. Thanks for sending us your advice. Send us hobby ideas. You can send an email to askmandyandcatherinemail.com or check out our socials for an easy way to send us a voice note. And thank you so much for being here and. And tuning in.

[Kathryn Grody]

Thanks for not listening to us.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay, listen to me. Are you listening to me?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Listen to me.

[Kathryn Grody]

Don't listen to us.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I want you to listen to me. I need you to listen to me. I need

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Goodbye. I've been trying to end this episode

[Mandy Patinkin]

for 20 minutes and I've been listening a lot. Been trying to go a fishing and I'm just a listen and I'm just

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

a listen somebody who has the but

[Mandy Patinkin]

don't tell me what the button do and don't just call me who probably is not the one who's listening to you. Don't Listening Don't Listen.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't Listen to Us is a Lemonada Media original hosted by Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Created by Katrina Onstad, Debbie Pacheco and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Executive producers are Kathryn Grody, Gideon Grody Pininkin, Mandy Padinkin, Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles Wax. Our engineer is Ryan Derringer of Welterweight Sound. Video and audio production by Mark Whiteway of Bellows Media. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Media Premium yet, now's the perfect time. You can hear Don't Listen to Us completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like behind the scenes conversations, questions so weird they didn't make it on air, Becky the Dog shenanigans, and more. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple podcasts. Head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We often record these episodes in advance so we don't get to respond in real time to what's going on in our country. It is a hard and frightening time. We believe we all have to do whatever we can to help protect our immigrant family members, friends, colleagues and neighbors.

[Kathryn Grody]

Today, we want to offer just two ways to get involved. Connect with Indivisible, a grassroots organization that mobilizes local actions across the US their

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

website is indivisible.org another great organization is the National Immigrant justice center, whose mission is to establish and defend the legal rights of immigrants. You can go to immigrantjustice.org and click on the Ways to Help tab. We're all in this together and thank

[Kathryn Grody]

you, thank you, thank you.