W. Kamau Bell on How To Parent In Uncertain Times

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Don't Listen To Us with Mandy Patinkin & Kathryn Grody
Episode: W. Kamau Bell on How To Parent In Uncertain Times
Date: February 4, 2026
Host: Lemonada Media

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Overview

This episode explores how to parent and stay hopeful during turbulent times. Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody, and their son Gideon are joined by comedian and producer W. Kamau Bell for a candid conversation on nourishing children’s spirits, maintaining authentic family connections, and navigating the complexities of modern parenting and social responsibility. The episode blends humorous banter, personal stories, and genuine advice—anchored by the guests’ and hosts’ lived experience as artists and parents.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Opening Banter: Taboo in the Family & “How Do Things Work?”

• [02:03–05:46] The Patinkin-Grody family humorously discusses taboos in their own family, primarily teasing between Mandy and Kathryn, and what teasing means in their dynamic.
• [05:59–10:10] The family’s playful ignorance about everyday science (e.g., microwaves, livers) highlights how modern life has distanced us from understanding basic mechanisms around us.

Notable Quotes

• “Taboo means something you shouldn’t do.” —Mandy [02:11]
• “I think I am losing my sense of humor.” —Kathryn [03:05]
• “I sing show tunes, OK?” —Mandy [07:09]

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Welcoming W. Kamau Bell: Finding Joy and Purpose

• [12:10–13:23] Introduction of Kamau as a guest, marked by mutual admiration and humor.
• [13:32–14:19] Kamau reflects on the difficulty of answering “How are you?” today, acknowledging his privilege but not denying his frustrations.

Notable Quotes

• “Whenever I start to feel bad for myself, the ghost of Harriet Tubman shows up and says, ‘Oh, you’re having a hard day?’” —Kamau [14:19]
• “Love is still the most powerful force on the planet.” —Kamau [13:09]

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Art and Comedy as Resistance & Connection

• [15:45–22:51]
  • How Comedy and Art Support Us During Hard Times: Kamau finds comedy shows to be a “vitamin B shot of hope,” with audiences drawn to community and honesty about current events.
  • The Value of Live Performance: The group reflects on radical togetherness and the “political-ness” of simply gathering and creating uplifting, human spaces.
  • Navigating Political Dimensions: Both Mandy and Kamau discuss the impossibility of separating performance from politics and the importance of acknowledging this connection, drawing on a Martin Sheen anecdote.

Notable Quotes

• “I find right now it’s a great time to be a performer who’s worth a damn.” —Kamau [16:34]
• “The air you breathe is political.” —Martin Sheen quote via Mandy [19:14]
• “If you sing a song just about love and kindness, that is inescapably political in this moment.” —Gideon [22:01]

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Main Topic: Parenting in Uncertain Times

• [24:17–27:23] Listener Question: How to “nourish” children’s hope and decency.
  • Kamau’s Kids & Household: Shares about his three daughters (14, 11, 7), multigenerational household with his wife and 88-year-old mother.
  • Meeting Kids Where They’re At: Kamau emphasizes age-appropriate honesty, avoiding both overexposure and neglect.
    • With his 7-year-old: Trump is a “bully,” an “evil guy in the movie.”
    • With his 11-year-old: Reassures her safety, offers honest, nuanced conversations about anxiety.
    • With his 14-year-old: Focuses on preparing her for the world’s challenges, including online dangers and “how to spot AI.”

Notable Quotes

• “Meet kids where they’re at but don’t be negligent in not telling your kids about the state of the world.” —Kamau [25:23]
• “If it gets to a point where we’re not safe, me and mama will know that before you ever know.” —Kamau [26:53]

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Creating Space for Children’s Individuality

• [28:56–32:27]
  • Kamau, an only child, notes the importance of allowing kids unstructured time and following their passions—even when fleeting.
  • Encourages using technology (e.g., YouTube for animal facts) to explore interests together.
  • Kathryn echoes that it’s crucial to “see who your kid is, not who you wish them to be,” and to teach by example.

Notable Quotes

• “Parents… want to like plug in all their kids’ hours… I’m a big believer in allowing kids to have some free time… that’s when they get to know themselves.” —Kamau [29:14]
• “It’s great if your kid has a passion, but you don’t get to choose what it is for them.” —Kathryn [30:25]

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Navigating Identity, Culture, and Spirituality

• [32:30–35:14]
  • Parenting is personalized: “Three kids from the same two people can be so totally different.”
  • Kamau discusses raising mixed-race children and the conscious effort to teach them about Black culture when it isn’t present by osmosis, as it was for him.
  • Shares about the need to bring in spiritual awareness, which arose inadvertently (“Help me Black Jesus” as a household phrase).

Notable Quotes

• “I want to teach you the Black things… so you know how to be connected to other black people in the world.” —Kamau [33:29]
• “I think we accidentally skipped God.” —Kamau [34:02]
• “Now my 14 year old is going to high school at a Catholic school… you do need to know what this God religion thing is, because that’s a lot of how the world works.” —Kamau [35:14]

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Practicing Parental Advocacy & Being Present

• [35:14–37:55]
  • Kamau gives an example of active involvement—being tapped in as an advocate for his daughter in school problems, but letting her be in control of when to ask.
  • Involves his child in the drafting of an email to school, showing respect for children’s agency.
  • On parenting evolution: Even confident kids benefit from attentive check-ins; continuous affirmation of support is key.

Notable Quotes

• “You can handle this if you want to, but if you need to tap me in, tap me in… And she put her head down on my hand: ‘tap, tap.’” —Kamau [36:17]
• “The number one thing I learned from my mom’s parenting is it is important that your kids know that you always have their back.” —Kamau [37:48]

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Endearing Family and Listener Moments

• [42:56–51:52]
  • Gideon reveals how he, as a child, listened in on private parental conversations, explaining his curiosity about adult perspectives.
  • Discussion on family secrets and boundaries—negotiating curiosity, privacy, and emotional responsibility.
  • Signature playful bickering about whether certain family secrets will ever be revealed.

Notable Quotes

• “I listened to countless secret adult conversations that I wasn’t allowed to.” —Gideon [44:33]
• “It’s important to preserve the mystery of each individual in your life so that you keep leaning in to try to see it, learn it, find out what you don’t know.” —Mandy [49:00]

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Notable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• On Privilege and Perspective
  “I’ve been thinking myself… I have a certain level of privilege that many people around me don’t have. So I have to understand that I’m doing great compared to many…Even if I’m having a hard day, I’m very quick to be like, but it could be harder.” —Kamau [13:32]

• On Comedy in Challenging Times
  “People use my comedy shows as a way to get a vitamin B shot of hope in the middle of all this…But a lot of performers out here are not worth a damn.” —Kamau [16:07, 16:46]

• On Music and Politics
  “I’m not the genius, I’m the mailman. But… these words… become timeless because they hit the nerve of existence.… Martin Sheen said to us once… ‘Do you breathe, Mandy?… Well, the air you breathe is political.’” —Mandy [18:26, 19:14]

• On Parenting & Tapping in for Advocacy
  “I go, ‘look, you can handle this if you want to, but if you need to tap me in, tap me in.’… and she put her head down on my hand.” —Kamau [36:17]

• On Preserving Mystery & Privacy
  “It’s important to preserve the mystery of each individual in your life so that you keep leaning in to try to see it, learn it, find out what you don’t know.” —Mandy [49:00]

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Episode Highlights

• The warmth, humor, and candidness make for a unique environment that balances wisdom and self-deprecation.
• The lesson of parenting is not about having all the answers, but about being available, curious, and honest with children.
• The strength of family and culture is not in perfection, but in a willingness to grow, be present, and celebrate each individual for who they are.
• The episode closes with playful teasing about family secrets and Mandy’s impromptu song.

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Timestamps for Key Topics

• Taboo & Humor in Family: [02:03–05:46]
• Microwaves & Modern Disconnection: [05:59–10:10]
• Welcoming W. Kamau Bell: [12:10–13:23]
• Comedy, Art, & Resistance: [15:45–22:51]
• Parenting in Uncertain Times: [24:17–27:23]
• Fostering Individuality: [28:56–32:27]
• Navigating Identity & Spirituality: [32:30–35:14]
• Parental Advocacy: [35:14–37:55]
• Gideon’s Family Secrets Confession: [42:56–51:52]

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This episode offers parents encouragement, a sense of camaraderie, and practical insights for supporting their children—and themselves—through a complicated world. The interplay between humor, vulnerability, and the realities of modern family life make it both entertaining and comforting for listeners.

Transcript

[Julia Louis Dreyfus]

Hiya, Julia Louis Dreyfus here from the Wiser Than Me podcast. Among other things. And I've got a bit of a hot take. Our relationship to our food can feel disconnected. We don't always know how or where our food is grown. And if we throw food scraps in the garbage, we don't think about where it's going. Or at least we try not to. One way that I get back a little of that connection is by using my mill food recycler. Sure, Mill has totally changed my home life in a lot of practical ways. It works automatically. You can fill it for weeks. It never ever smells. But this is also really important. When I use mill, I'm participating in a circular system. All the food I don't eat is helping to grow the food that I do. It makes me feel like I'm part of something bigger. And that feels really, really, really good. And it's all so ridiculously easy. I just drop my scraps in my mill and it transforms them into nutrient rich grounds overnight. I have mine sent to a small farm, but if I wanted to, I could use them in my garden or for my backyard chickens if I wanted backyard chickens. And I don't know, maybe I do now, maybe I don't. Anyway, maybe mill is transforming me too, just a little. If you want to feel more connected or you just want your kitchen to feel less gross, try. Try Mill's risk free trial and just live with it for a while. Go to mill.com wiser for an exclusive offer.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Lemonada. You can hear every episode of Don't Listen to Us ad free with Lemonada Premium. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or. Or head to Lemonada Premium to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Would you guys say there's a taboo in our family?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Taboo?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Of what?

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Taboo means something you shouldn't do.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. Like something that's, you know, it's taboo.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Don't tease mom. That's a taboo.

[Katherine Grody]

I don't like being teased. Trust me, I do not.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Like, do you feel like we tease you?

[Katherine Grody]

No, it's mostly dad. I just can't stand being teased by dad.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

By dad?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, she used to love it. It was a way I made her laugh.

[Katherine Grody]

No.

[Mandy Patinkin]

As she's gotten older, she's lost her sense of humor.

[Katherine Grody]

No, it's not true.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I never doing on teasing less.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Not that well.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, really well, that's bothering me very much.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But I can't remember what I don't mind Being teased.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mom, would you like to tease dad for a little bit?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Give me a good tease.

[Katherine Grody]

No. I don't even know how to tease.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Sure you don't. You've never teased.

[Katherine Grody]

I don't think I give her a teasing class.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Hey, your beard is so long you can't see your neck.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, it is hurtful.

[Katherine Grody]

God, I really. I think I am losing my sense of humor.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do you want to try teasing me?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Try and tease. See if it makes you feel better.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, you might enjoy doing it, but not.

[Katherine Grody]

Honey, look at that. I can't even see your upper lip. It's all covered with this funny fuzz.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, you're such.

[Katherine Grody]

Oh, what is that?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

College boys, your courage Muster, shave off that fuzzy cookie duster. You know what that's from?

[Katherine Grody]

What?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Burma Shave. Remember the Burma Shave ads?

[Katherine Grody]

How do you find that?

[Mandy Patinkin]

How'd you find that?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I had a book of the Burma Shave ads, and that was my favorite one. College boys, your courage Muster, shave off that fuzzy cookie dough.

[Katherine Grody]

Do you remember that book I gave you about Victorian expressions? Kid, that was a pretty good gift with all those. All the vocabulary from Victorian.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, it actually wasn't Victorian. It was words that were once popular.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I remember that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

1200.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, since.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, through the 1900s.

[Katherine Grody]

And then they.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, there's some good ones. I remember snallygoster, Callipygian.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What do those words mean?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Snallygoster is like a disreputable wretch. Terrible. Oh, my God, I love that piece of shit. And then callipygian is. Might be callipygian. I'm not sure. It means perfectly proportioned buttocks caliphy.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's.

[Katherine Grody]

Mom, thank you for sharing that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

A callipy.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's not a tease, Mom. That's a. I don't know.

[Katherine Grody]

I. I don't know.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You feel. Dad is.

[Katherine Grody]

I'm. I'm retiring from this podcast today.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay.

[Katherine Grody]

Welcome to Don't Listen to us. Really? I don't know why.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

All right. Take it or leave it advice show. We'll be featuring advice from cows today. If you want to know where the best grass is, ask me. Have you ever played a cow in anything?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I almost was the back end of a cow in something that. I can't remember what it was, but I didn't get the part.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Wow, that must have been devastating.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It was devastating. But, you know, don't go in this business unless you're willing to be knocked down.

[Katherine Grody]

I drew cows that were with square bodies when I was in the third grade and my mom Rounded my corners and I have them framed in my office.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That is. That is something I hope you've shared with your therapists over the years. You drew square cows and my mom.

[Katherine Grody]

Needed rounded them the edges.

[Mandy Patinkin]

The.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That is insane.

[Katherine Grody]

I think that was not encouraging my own creative vision, but showing me the reality of how she perceived cast. On the other hand, you could think of. We were drawing together and having a nice time.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, it's just insane up here.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Go on up. Up here, Becky, get up there. Okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

The next 20 minutes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Look.

[Katherine Grody]

Oh, my God.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mom, Dad, I wanted to start the show off today. Can you please explain to the best of your ability how you think first off, microwaves work? How does a microwave work?

[Mandy Patinkin]

You want me to talk?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Becky, you are knocking into equipment.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What are you doing here? Looking for love.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You're in trouble, Becky. Get out from onto dogging.

[Katherine Grody]

Really?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You are cruising, honey.

[Katherine Grody]

Put her up on the couch with a treat again.

[Mandy Patinkin]

She doesn't want to do that. Sit down. All right? Leave her alone, will you, please?

[Katherine Grody]

How do microwaves work? Well, I'm terrified of microwaves. I don't have them. If I have an option, how do they work?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think the protons and neurons are.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Neurons?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah. The protons and neurons in the air are stimulated to create friction, and that also stimulates the protons and neurons in whatever neutrons, maybe. I'm not sure whether they're neurons or.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Neurons or what you have in your. In your head.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, but neutrons.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I don't know.

[Katherine Grody]

I have no idea how they work. If you haven't paid attention.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I sing show tunes, okay.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So I don't know whether they're neutrons or neurons. Whatever the atomic particles are in our body, you know, that everything's made of. They get them to friction, you know, to kind of get moving. Makes heat, and it makes heat in all the meat and everything you put in it, soup, whatever water, and heats it up. And that's how it works. How. How they get them to move is. I think they're sort of invisible, but there's some. There's a lot of invisible little people in every microwave. And they start moving quickly to. To get them heated up tons.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And the neurons.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Great.

[Mandy Patinkin]

If you look. If you have like a filter.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Then you can see them. Great.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mom, how does the liver work in your body? How does that work?

[Katherine Grody]

It's a detoxifier. The liver processes poisons and gets them to go out of your body through the kidney, I believe. I mean, the liver. I know the liver is a Detoxifier. I know if you take a lot of Tylenol or Advil, you should eat a lot of pineapple, because pineapple is a detoxifier.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Liver is like a coffee filter. It lets the liquid go through, absorbs the nutrients, but doesn't let the coffee grinds go through. Often, if you look up liver and functionality, you'll see pictures of coffee filters.

[Katherine Grody]

That's really interesting. I do.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Things get into the liver.

[Mandy Patinkin]

They get in through the ceramic coffee filter holder, and you put it on your mouth. The liquid into the.

[Katherine Grody]

Expose our ignorance on every subject.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think it's exposing our collective.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think that's.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What's your best guess.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'll tell you later what I think.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Into the liver.

[Katherine Grody]

Well, you have intestines and you have all these arteries, and all your organs are connected to each other.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I mean, Mom, I don't know either.

[Katherine Grody]

Well, it's just pathetic. I mean, this is like we're more ignorant. We're more ignorant about our day.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We're not things that we were 100 years ago.

[Katherine Grody]

100 years ago, we drilled the well. We knew how it works.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Let's just be adults. They get in through the liver door. Okay, what brought these up? Desperate for content?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, just. I mean, we got to start talking about something. I think, how do so.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Desperate for content.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think, how do things work that are around us that feel obvious but are hard to articulate is sort of.

[Katherine Grody]

But you know, Jed, it is interesting to me because 150 years ago, everybody understood how things work. They chop the wood that made the fire. They built the well that they used to pump water from. And we have gotten further and further away from understanding how, you know, we just turn on a light and we just. We don't know how anything works. We certainly. I can't tell you how all the. The Internet and the WI fi wire. Oh, no, we've already done that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Neck bone. The neck bones connected to the back bone.

[Katherine Grody]

That's about it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Is it on the list? I'm stopping some more. I don't want to pay for that. Take it away. Every year, I tell myself I get better about meal planning, and it's just like a New Year's resolution that never happens. And every year, life gets busy and it falls apart. What finally clicked for me is realizing meals don't have to look one specific way. They just have to fit your life. They got to be ready and they got to be good. That's what Marley Spoon does really? Well, I love that Marley Spoon actually adapts with you, with Me with us. With all of us. No matter what our schedule is, how crazy our life is going, how quick we need it, or a taste for this or that. Some nights you cook. Some nights you heat. Some nights you just need dinner done fast. Marley Spoon has tons of options in their marketplace for meal shortcuts and drinks to fresh groceries you can add on each week. It's a great way to shop. What I love about Marley Spoon is how ridiculously easy they make everything. I made their specific recipe. I made their recipe for shrimp and vegetables and rice. It was one of those moments where you look at your plate like, I made this. I made it. Yes, sir. Mandy boy, you made this. Now shut up and eat it. And it's incredible. This new year, fast track your way to eating well with Marley Spoon. Head to marley spoon.com forward slash offer. Don't listen for 45 off your first order and free delivery. That's right. 45% off your first order and free delivery. That's marleyspoon.com offer. Don't listen. Now, you probably didn't hear that because you're not listening, but I bet you're eating your Marley Spoon. Have fun. Eat that Marley Spoon and enjoy it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mom, dad, we're going to mix things up and have our live guest joining us a little earlier in the program today. He's a pal from the Internet. We haven't met him in person till this moment right now. But we've all been appreciating each other's work and speaking out on important issues for a long time together. And he's here to help us answer a listener question. Please welcome standup comedian, director, producer, dad, and celebrity Jeopardy. Champion, W. Kamau Bell.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hey, Kamau. How are you?

[Katherine Grody]

Oh, my God. Kamau. I'm gonna try not to be too much of a fan girl.

[W. Kamau Bell]

I'm honored to be here. Thank you for having me.

[Katherine Grody]

Well, we're honored to have. Honored to talk to you.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Don't do that. Don't do that. We need joy in the world.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Really?

[Katherine Grody]

We. You need joy. Joy as a way of, you know, combating all the other shit that's going on.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Right.

[Katherine Grody]

Don't let him take away our joy. What does your T shirt say? Love is still. Love is still the most powerful.

[W. Kamau Bell]

The most powerful force on the planet.

[Katherine Grody]

Couldn't agree with you more.

[Mandy Patinkin]

There you go.

[Katherine Grody]

Bell hooks, right? James Baldwin, all of. I mean, anybody.

[W. Kamau Bell]

It was a free T shirt that was sent to me. I'm not sure. Okay. Okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Kamel, can I ask a question? How are you doing Today and with all this right now, in this crazy moment.

[W. Kamau Bell]

I laugh because in my stand up act I say that's the hardest question to answer right now in America is how are you doing? So I've been thinking myself, as I have a certain level of privilege that many people around me don't have. So I have to understand that I'm doing great compared to many of those around me. Doesn't mean I don't struggle with things, doesn't mean I'm not frustrated. You can talk to my wife about that. But I often understand, like I understand that even in doing the work that I do and that you all do, we sort of get to do like the most privileged end of it, which is sharing words online. We're not. And I'm not, I'll say that I'm not generally out in the world doing the heavy lifting. So even when I think about like, if I'm having a hard day, I'm very quick to be like, but it could be harder.

[Katherine Grody]

Oh yeah.

[W. Kamau Bell]

My joke in my act is that whenever I start to feel bad for myself is that the ghost of Harriet Tubman shows up and says, oh, you're having a hard day. Having a hard day.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah. I went to San Francisco State. Oh, and in a great period come out. I arrived there in 1960, friggin 4. And I often think if I'd gone to that acting school, that fancy one in Pittsburgh that my parents couldn't afford, instead of landing right in the heart of it all. Yes, it's, it terrifies me what, my narcissism would have just been grown there as opposed to a whole, you know, other political education that was so thrilling because I was lucky enough to be part of that generation that thought we did change things. You know, we stopped a bad war, we had the first Earth Day, we had the Civil rights movement. We thought, hey, these four years in college, man, we've.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You did it, we did it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We're done.

[W. Kamau Bell]

All done.

[Katherine Grody]

You know.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Well, you know, we thought we did it. Or a lot of young people thought they did it. In 2020 with the Black Lives Matter marches around the world, we thought we did it. We finally have beaten back institutional and structural racism and all they did was give us Juneteenth as a holiday.

[Katherine Grody]

That's right, right.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How, I'm curious, how is it making comedy during this time? And I mean, dad, for you too, I know that you're continuing to sing and going on tour and singing. How, how does continuing to make your craft and your art feel supportive or meaningful or challenging while all this is going on.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Yeah. So for me, it feels like people use my comedy shows as a way to get, like, a vitamin B shot of hope in the middle of all this. So they definitely want me to talk about what's going on, but they also want me to just tell jokes about my kids and the silly things they do. And then afterwards, I will hang out, and there will just be a line of people who just want to say hello, get a picture, get a hug. They just need. It's. I find right now it's a great time to be a performer who's worth a damn. Now, that's the key part. Are you a performer who's worth a damn? I can vet that. The Patinkin family are worth a damn. Thank you. But a lot of performers out here are not worth a damn.

[Katherine Grody]

You know, it's interesting. I have this thing about practice being human. I wanted to make T shirts that said fully human, not a neural link in me. Do you know, I think between.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You don't think your phone is a neural link.

[Katherine Grody]

Wait a minute. Yes, my phone is a neuralink, but so far, it's not in my chip, you know, in my head. But, you know, it's interesting. Between Covid and the heinous aspects of technology and social media, I think we really have forgotten. We've gotten so frightened of each other. We're on these squares, you know, And I find just like I realized in New York City, I was listening to too many things while I walked around, and I wasn't where I was, and I took out my ear things, and I just made eye contact with strangers in my community, and people looked at.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You and said, what the fuck are you doing?

[Katherine Grody]

Somebody was singing, and I went, oh, my God, did I need to hear that? And they're like, what? And they take their things out, go, oh, thank you. You know, or thanks to the postal person, man, I love you people. Thanks for doing that. This. This practice and reminder of any kind of connection isn't too small. If we can just make each other feel seen, you know, and practice kindness and that we're in the same space. And that idea, too, of despair, man, you know, that is what the fascist forces want us to feel. Despair and powerless and there's nothing we can do. And I just feel it. Every opportunity in every way, if it's being kind to a stranger, if it's buying locally, doing comedies, doing comedy.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah. You know, I just think I go out and do concerts, so I sing. I call myself a Mailman. I sing things that, you know, geniuses write. I'm not the genius, I'm the mailman. But they wrote, men and women wrote these words, these lyrics with some music, all with music, but, you know, that become timeless in many ways because they hit the nerve of existence. And so I try very hard during these times and, you know, when are these times? I guess I would say all times. I try during these all times to not make my concerts a political event. Now I'm slapped in the face the minute I say that with our dear friend Martin Sheen said to us once, because Katherine used to take care of her kids when they were little. But I said to him early on in our relationship, I said, martin, I don't know if I'm political. I mean, Catherine has certainly plugged a lot of political juices into me. And he said, do you breathe? Do you breathe, Mandy? I said, yes, I breathe. He said, well, the air you breathe is political. And I got it right. I got it in one. And so what's so interesting to me is I like to go out on the stage and sing these songs, but I like to go out there and be with the audience most of all, because I need a break from this world and everything that we're bombarded with. And I go to that theater to have a break. But what is the unexpected joy is I never know what's going to come out of my mouth. I just know what the song is from the minute I start the song to the song's over. And the song has all kinds of possibilities in it always. But. But I never know what I might say in between. It's whatever comes to me. And sometimes it's a fucking disaster. But, but. And, or Gideon will come after, after he's heard me tell something, you know, X amount of times. And it started off being like a nice, you know, ten second thing, and then it becomes like a three hour event. And Gideon will say, you can, you know, you can, you can drop that.

[Katherine Grody]

Do you really need to tell that story?

[Mandy Patinkin]

You can drop. Yeah. Do you really need to tell that story, dad? You don't need. You don't have to tell that story. But my point is, every now and then I hear the audience have a reaction, a laugh or a kind of deep silence or a laugh or a gasp. And I just, I'm just filled with their support for the condition of our lives right now and our humanity. Because what they're saying to me is, we are with you. We are with you. We are with these people who wrote These ideas and these thoughts that people were trying to realize in their own lives, sometimes they never realize them, but they left those wishes behind. And it's such a gift that I never expected. And I. And the minute I accidentally say something because I can't help but be who I am, and the political shit just comes out because I've been living with this woman for 47 years. So, you know, so. But when it comes out and they react, I tried pretty quick to dial it back because I don't want to.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Go down that road.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You know, we're here to have a break. But they say you can go down that road, little boy. You go down that road all you want. And that is a pretty thrilling gift to receive on that stage, you know, it's pretty amazing.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's also wild that my dad's audiences are always calling him little boy.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But he. Something I think is incredible about, like, live performance right now is that it. It feels powerful, even radical. With all these corporations pulling, pushing us into boxes to, like, have everything at our fingertips at home, just being with a bunch of people in a room is amazing. It's powerful. If you sing a song just about love and kindness, that is inescapably political in this moment, it is, you know, if you're singing about humanity, if you're just singing about having a difficult moment in communicating and surpassing that, I mean, yeah, the air you breathe is political, the songs you sing are political, the jokes you tell. And I think it's an amazing thing just for us to gather together.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Sometimes there's a moment at night when you want something grown up, but not something that ruins tomorrow. So we've been trying Little Saints. It's a real cocktail experience without the alcohol. Thank God for me. Now, if you love cocktails like I love cocktails, but not the aftermath, Little Saints is worth trying. Like the spicy margarita. I love the. The ting it has. I love the. It just has a. I don't know, it just bites you and wakes up and tickles your mouth and tickles all the way down to your toe. I love it. I just love it. What I really like about it, though, is there's zero sugar, only 5 calories, and it is non intoxicating. So you get that yummy cocktail experience without the alcohol. You can drive, have a good time, your cops can pull you over, you can pass the breathalyzer test. I'd say it's a versatile drink designed for evenings hostings winding down. Visit little saints.com to explore their cocktails and use code don'tlisten to get 15% off your first order. Little Saints products are non alcoholic. Functional ingredients are not intended to diagnose, treat or cure any condition.

[Katherine Grody]

We got a lot to talk about from looking around and knowing that it's all on us and parenting in this time. You know, somebody wrote in and I just sort of wept because this mom said I have an 11 year old and how do I nourish her in these times? And I thought that was such a great word, you know. How do you nourish your kids to be hopeful, decent, connected human beings and appreciate joy and beauty and nature and possibility. Well, all this shit is going on around them and this ugliness and inhumanity, I think that's a big challenge on a daily basis for parents. I don't know how old your kids.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Are, So I have three daughters. I have a 14 year old who's a freshman in high school, an 11 year old who's in sixth grade and a seven year old who is in second grade. And then there's my wife. So my 88 year old mom lives with us too. So I'm experiencing all the different realms of womanhood that a woman can experience, I believe.

[Katherine Grody]

Lucky you.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Yes, very lucky. So for me I think it's important to do two things. One, meet kids where they're at, so don't talk to them about adult things like they're an adult. But two, don't be negligent in not telling your kids about the state of the world in a way that they can understand.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What parts of the state of the world do you share with your kids and what parts do you avoid?

[W. Kamau Bell]

So that's a great question. With my 7 year old, she knows that Trump is the president. She knows that he's doing things like taking away people from up the streets that he shouldn't do that for. She knows he's a bully because little kids can recognize a bully when they see one. And she knows that he wants to hurt many of our friends and family in our community. So that's where we're at here. He's, he's a, he's a bully. He's the evil guy in the movie. He's a monster. With my 11 year old it's a more nuanced conversation, but it's also about with her she gets a. Because she's different, she's like me. She gets anxiety about are we safe? I see all these things, are we safe? So then with her the conversation is about, I will, believe me, if it gets to the point where we're not safe, me and Mama will know that. And we will. We will get us out of here, you know, so you don't need to worry about that. We are safe right now. And I often joke about that's why we moved to the Bay Area where we the brightest, bluest, safest place in America, I believe. And we're surrounded by friends and we are surrounded by people who love us and who we love. So if it gets to a point where we're not safe, me and Mama will know that before you ever know. We'll take it from there. And with my 14 year old, it's about how to be out in the world now that you're out in the world by yourself. And that means how to deal with the forces of America that I'm not going to be able to protect you from. And some of that is even the online forces of America. The number one thing I do for my 14 year old now is just send her videos about how to spot AI.

[Katherine Grody]

That's phenomenal. Can you send me those videos, please?

[W. Kamau Bell]

Yes, yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I want to get to a listener question that we've got that we want to share with you, Kamau, and and hear everybody's thoughts on it. This is an email from Julie and we started talking a bit about kids and having kids. This is a question along that vein. I'll read it. She wrote, dear Catherine, Mandy, Gideon and Kamau. She didn't write that part, but she.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Of course not.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Of course not.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

At the time I started listening to Don't Listen to Us in October. I really appreciate that all three of you make me laugh a lot throughout your episodes. Thank you for your authenticity. It's fun to hear about your family stories, experiences and religious traditions. You're inspiring to me as my husband and I raise our 12 year old son. What are some of the ways you gave your boys space and opportunities to authentically be and become the unique individuals they are today? Thanks again for making a great podcast. Keep up the good work. Blessings, Julie. And I'd love to go to you, Kamau. Like first. You know, you've got three kids. You share their ages and curious. Yeah. How you guys in this world fight to enable them to be themselves.

[W. Kamau Bell]

So I'm an only child. My wife says only children are weird. And I said, but I'm an only child. And she said that that's how I know they're weird. I believe the kids need free time and space to sort of figure out who they are and what they're thinking. About. And I think a lot of times parents at this point especially want to like plug in all their kids hours with something to do or say, why are you in your room by yourself? Or whatever. And I'm a big believer in allowing kids to have some free time to just be by themselves doing their own thing, because that's when they get to know themselves and that's when they get to have thoughts they weren't going to have if they were always in a room with the big amoeba of the family. So. And then I'm a big believer of like, once you find out that your kid is interested in something, even a little bit, if there's a way to figure out how to explore that with them, explore it with them. And it mainly lasts a day or two, or it may be a thing. It opens up a whole new world to them. So one of the great things about YouTube is that my seven and a half year old, it will. It loves animals. And she'll start talking about animals and she'll start having. And she knows a lot about animals, but then she'll have questions about animals that I can answer. And I'm like, to YouTube Batman. And we will go then find videos that will do four kids that will do deep dives on these animals that I'll learn and she'll learn. And it's a way that I can then share this with her just by following her interests. And so that's one of the great things about technology in this era, is that it's much easier to. To sort of feed your kids interest.

[Katherine Grody]

I think there was a great educator that wrote a book called All Kinds of Minds who said, parents, it's great if your kid has a passion, but you don't get to choose what it is for them, you know? And I think just seeing who your kid is, not who you wish them to be or who you wished you were to live over, you know, your childhood differently, but to really see who they are and encourage that. And also just by example, you know, if they see you treat everybody with a certain level of dignity and respect, they'll get the idea that's what you do with people. There's not a different level. Do you know? But I remember taking Isaac. He was eight years. He was eight years old. I took him on the march against going into Iraq. It was freezing in New York. And he said, mom, why are we doing this? It's not gonna stop the war. And I said, yeah, but they're gonna know. The people are pissed off. Do you know, and that is your obligation. You know, I mean, my dad was a son of a Jewish immigrant that landed on Normandy on D Day. He had a 30 year correspondence with Senator Al Cranston and he had no money. That is a big difference in where we are right now. Like, he had ideas and his senator wrote him two pages back. You know, so I think.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Let me ask. Let me ask a question. What comes up for you, Kumal, with this topic of either what you've learned or how, you know, different kids personalities inform how you parent them.

[W. Kamau Bell]

So, yes, as an only child, it is weird to me that three kids from the same two people can be so totally different.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[W. Kamau Bell]

So I'm always blown away by, like, how do. How are these three so different, even though they're made up of the same stuff?

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[W. Kamau Bell]

So I've learned I have to parent each of them differently, which may be no revelation to you all, but for me, it's a big deal.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[W. Kamau Bell]

So the thing that I'm aware of, because my kids are mixed, their mom is white, I'm black, as I believe I've stated publicly.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Right.

[W. Kamau Bell]

That the thing that I'm aware of is that there is a black education that they need to have that I have to be attuned to because it's not going to happen through osmosis the way it happened with me, because they're not constantly around blackness the way that I was. I have to be sort of aware of the fact that, like, oh, I need to teach you this thing so that you know this thing so you know how to be connected to other black people in the world. Not that you can't. Not that you have to. You can judge it, you can have thoughts about it, but I want you to know the thing. And so I have often. And we joke about it, so we talk about it. Like, I'm like, this is the thing I'm teaching you because it's a black thing. And the kids are aware that this is the thing we joke about. And then there's things that we do that are black things that I love, that are just a part of what. How I grew up. So we do Kwanzaa in my house, which is still, despite what the media would tell you, is not a thing that most black families do. Yeah.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[W. Kamau Bell]

So there's this part of me that is like, I want to teach you the black things. And then at some point, my wife, who grew up Catholic and I grew up, you know, black Christian, whatever that means. But we didn't go to church in our family. But we both, me and my wife both grew up going to church. And I realized at some point, like, I think we accidentally skipped God. Like, I think we, I didn't mean to. Yeah, like, I don't need them to be like religious zealots, but I would like them to have an understanding. And you can decide if you believe in that or not, but I would like you to have understanding of that. And so God started coming up around my kids and they would hear about it. My 11 year old said to my wife, I don't believe in God. And my wife was a little bit like, Whoa. And my 7 year old goes, my 11 year old asked my wife, do you believe in God? She goes, yes, of course I believe in God. And a little bit confused that she didn't know that my wife believed in God. And then I came up and, and my wife goes, do you think Dada believes in God? And she said, yeah, of course. He's always saying, help me Black Jesus. Which is a thing I say around the house anytime I need help with something. I say, oh, help me Black Jesus. And so it was funny to me to find out that I had sort of introduced the idea of spirituality to them through just my own life in the world. But now my 14 year old is actually going to high school at a Catholic school. And weirdly, I'm happy about it, even though I'm not Catholic, because I feel like you do need to know what this God religion thing is, because that's a lot of how, how the world works.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think I'm gonna start saying help me black Jesus too.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, I, I've always said, help me Jewish Jesus. You can do that because.

[W. Kamau Bell]

And I'm gonna say, just to add to that, there's two things, two things I want to say before. Just, I want to make sure, I say, not that I have to go, but I just want to make sure I get these two things out. As we talk about parenting and how parents show up and how parents should act. Literally today I have to go to my 11 year old school to have a meeting with the school about a thing that my 11 year old does not like that me and her mom agree with. And I asked my 11 year old, I go, look, you can handle this if you want to, but if you need to tap me in, tap me in. But you have to tap me in. And I put my hand out like this. And because she's my kid, she's funny, she put her head down on my hand. It was like, tap, tap. And So I was like, all right, I'm in. And even in the process of doing this, I sent an email to the school and I let my 11 year old read it to be like, is this, Is this okay? Am I saying it right? She had a couple edits and then I sent it off to the school. So as we were sitting here talking about how to be a parent, I'm literally, like, getting ready to go to the school today to express to them that this is the line and we have to stop crossing this line.

[Katherine Grody]

Good for you.

[W. Kamau Bell]

I just want to, like, active, like, I'm, I'm thinking about those, as we say.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, I was curious if Kamau, was there something in your experience, even though your kids are still young, is there something that you feel like, oh, wow, that was something that I felt confident about or seemed obvious early on, but now, after having three, I've learned how to do that so much better with that much more practice.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Yeah. So my oldest kid is very confident in the world just by nature of who she is. She takes after her mom. And I think I often sort of assumed she's got this. And then I would look up sometimes be like, oh, no, she doesn't got this. Even though she is confident in the world, that doesn't mean that I shouldn't always be, like, very attentive and paying attention and to make sure that she's not navigating herself into bad spots. So I think, not that I'm not a helicopter parent, but I am a parent now who, like, will check in and be like, everything okay in here? Everything going all right? Just a little more actively to let them know that I'm here if you need me, which is what I did with my 11 year old. I am here if you need me. And I want you to hear me say that. I think the number one thing I learned from my mom's parenting is it is important that your kids know that you always have their back. And you can't sort of say that out loud enough. I got you if you need me. It's not a thing I want you to. I don't want you to hear me say this a year ago. I want you to regularly hear me say, I'm here if you need me.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I love that.

[Katherine Grody]

I love that. I love that. I just want to ask one thing. I know we have to go. Gideon's doing signal.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mom. Mom sees me do the we have to end now. We're wrapping up signal. And she interprets that as, oh, just five more things.

[Katherine Grody]

Well, this is I don't, I don't even know if you can see this. These are my notes to you about all topics. You know, I might end up sending them to Kamau. Do you know Jessica Craven? Chopwood, Kerry.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Water.

[Katherine Grody]

Okay. I just want to.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Oh, yes, I know that expression.

[Katherine Grody]

Yes, well, she has a substack of video. She's an activist. What I love about her thing, I mean, you know, she's sometimes so enraged that she can't speak, but with the recent elections, she was so excited she couldn't speak. She said, I know we had to lose somewhere, but I can't find. Find one. You know. But what she does with every.

[Julia Louis Dreyfus]

Video.

[Katherine Grody]

Or letter, she tells you, here's the 20 great things that happened today and we're not hearing it on the news or in the friggin New York Times. She tells you every lawsuit we're winning, every overturning of abortion bans, all the climbing. I mean, I read it when I'm in great despair and think, quote, they're winning. And I realize, no, they're not. We are. You know, even though it seems like we're not. So thank you for doing what you do. I'm thrilled to talk to you. I could talk to you. Thank you pretty much for the day. I want to send you something. Gideon will show me how to do that. Thank you for your brilliant Shades of America, which I was a devoted fan of. And you shocked the shit out of me often. And I loved it.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Thank you. Before I go, I said, I said two things. You can't wrap me up, Gideon.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, I don't want to.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Yeah, I can't see you. I can't see you giving me the wrap it up. So I get to keep going.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I can give him a kick up to the table in the right place. You go right ahead.

[W. Kamau Bell]

So, and I told Gideon this a long time ago, but I just want to bring it up. So I was, my two, my three best friends in high school, apropos of nothing other than the entire conversation, were all Jewish kids sort of in Chicago. Jason Smith, whose dad was the head of religions at the University of Chicago, Jonathan Z. Smith, Jonathan Norton, who, whose dad worked in cable, and Rob Nasser, whose parents were both doctors. And so I, in my teen years, I would go to, I would go to seders and passovers occasionally, but one of them, Rob, regularly said that he was your cousin, Mr. Patinkin. And so I spent a lot of time with Rob. And whenever you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What was Rob's last name?

[W. Kamau Bell]

Nassiter. I don't Know if it's through the Nasseter family. But whenever you came on TV or in a movie, which was a lot, he was like, yeah, I'm related to Mandy Butinkin. I don't know if that's true, but it's just funny to me to sit here and talk to you, because for my teen years, I knew you were my friend's company.

[Katherine Grody]

It's a very big family.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's a big family. But I would be curious. And if you're connected with Gideon, to tell him, ask Rob. It has to be through his mother's side, not the Nasset, or. Because I don't if it's a Patinkin or a Pinkert. It's a cousin, but if it's. It must be on the marriage side of the mother. So I'd love to know how she was related, how he's related to us.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Okay. I just couldn't. I couldn't leave without. Without saying that. So. Yeah, so I have a cousin, too now because Rob was my best friend. So now I'm a cousin. Where are you?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, absolutely. Where'd you grow up in Chicago?

[W. Kamau Bell]

Hyde Park.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's the last place I lived was 54th and Hyde Park Boulevard.

[W. Kamau Bell]

We then we walked past each other.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Where'd you go to high school? Kenwood.

[W. Kamau Bell]

I went to lab. Of course.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You're talking to the only Lab. You're talking to the only Patinkin in the whole family of a lot of Patinkins. I'm the only one who couldn't get into the lab school. I couldn't get in. And I was in the first graduating class in. I was in the first graduating class at Kenwood.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Wow. I didn't realize. Wow.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[W. Kamau Bell]

I went to lab. Yeah. Putting my nose in the air.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we have a lot of friends that went to the lab.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I hear that word, I go into a little ptsd.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, right. Of insecurity. Thank you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thank you so much for making time with us, man, and such a privilege. Hope to be in touch soon.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And thank you so much for what you do in every imaginable way.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Thank you. And keep banging that drum, baby. Keep banging that drum.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[W. Kamau Bell]

I got no choice. Got no choice. Thank you. Love you both.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Love all of you.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Not just you two.

[Katherine Grody]

All in this together.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Put your hand out there. There he is.

[Katherine Grody]

There he is.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So, since a lot of our conversations today were about family, I want to wrap up by revisiting a segment we've done before on the show. I call it Gideon's Secrets, where I share a story about me or my childhood that you don't know about.

[Katherine Grody]

Oh, my God. Have we done this before?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So I don't.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We did the fire one in the bathroom.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I don't think you know this, but when I was a kid growing up on 200 West 90th street, we had quite a large apartment for in the city. And we had a long hallway. So there was one half of the apartment where me and my brother's room was. And there was a long hallway that led to your guys offices in your bedroom. And when there was conflict or some sort of issue, you guys would go like, okay, we're gonna go talk about this. You would very obviously separate yourself from the group. And you would go to dad's office, usually to have these adult conversations where the kids couldn't hear. I would walk very slowly because it was an old creaky floor in the hallway. And I would sometimes even bring a cup because I saw that in a show or movie. And I would get right up to your door, your office door, and I would listen in or put the cup there, and I would listen. And if I heard you coming towards the door, and a few times you'd open the door and leave the office. I'd leave the door to the bedroom open, and I'd dash into the bedroom and roll across the bed. But I listened to countless secret adult conversations that I wasn't allowed to.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What's the most memorable one?

[Katherine Grody]

Well, that's really none of them.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I mean, I just found them fascinating. And it was so delicious that you didn't know I was there. I mean, I wasn't into stealing stuff, but I was into stealing. Stealing moments weren't supposed to have.

[Katherine Grody]

I think you're still into that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And it was. And it was. I mean, it's not entirely disconnected from here. We are still fascinated somehow by my parents.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But it was very fascinating education to hear adults talking about adult things. Work, parenting, arguments, friends, family. In ways that you would never let me hear as a kid.

[Katherine Grody]

Did you feel there were things that harmed you that you shouldn't have heard that would be better for you not to have heard?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, I thought it was all super interesting. It was kind of the equivalent of.

[Mandy Patinkin]

He told me a couple of them. But they mainly had to do with things that you did wrong.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, that's right. No, it was the equivalent of like kids who aren't allowed to watch rated R movies, like which you were watching all the movies, and it was most delicious to just kind of be getting away with it and feeling like, oh wow, I have a whole new world into adult land.

[Katherine Grody]

Well, you still are. You could call it very inquisitive or curious or nosy. When you said to me a number of years ago, mom, are there any secrets that you have that you've told nobody? And if there are, you can tell me. You can tell me. Don't tell Isaac. He couldn't handle it. But I can handle it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I want to know. I'll be your resurrection. Reservoir of truth.

[Katherine Grody]

One of the reasons I wanna. One of the reasons I wanna purge all my. Before I die is my biggest. Not good. One of my biggest terrors is you will just spend decades going through every scrap trying to find things.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't worry.

[Katherine Grody]

Isaac will just throw it out.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I've gotten quite a bit of you over the last few years. I don't think I'm gonna be mining.

[Katherine Grody]

Okay, good.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think I've. I've squose you for all your wisdom and experiences. But I think what you're referring.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think whenever mom goes to do her place somewhere, I'm going to empty out all the storage at places. That's when I'll get rid of all.

[Katherine Grody]

No.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You're not doing anything while I'm alive for good. 30, 40, 50 years.

[Katherine Grody]

But you know what's interesting, kids? You're so curious about my secrets, but you won't share. You're very private with me.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's because you cannot handle it. You cannot. You want. You want to know everything about me. You can't handle negative things about me. It's true. If you hear anything about my life that is negative or that I'm sad, you take it on your burden as your own. You tell 15 friends about it. And you'll talk and think about it until you hear that it's good for me. So that's part of the challenge in our relationship is for you to be able to. I would like to practice some bad things sometimes. I have sad feelings about you.

[Katherine Grody]

I know you have sad feelings.

[Mandy Patinkin]

There's nothing he's mentioning about me. Everything about us is perfect.

[Katherine Grody]

I know that's right.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Dad can handle that a little bit better.

[Katherine Grody]

I would like to be given the opportunity to practice saying I'm sorry you're sad, but that's being human or whatever I'm supposed to say. Or just dealing with your sadness.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, that's. That's. That sounds hard.

[Katherine Grody]

That sounds.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Good luck with that.

[Katherine Grody]

That sounds hard. Good luck with that. I can't do anything about it, but I'm sure you will be able to deal with it, handle it any way you want to.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

The one thing that you're referencing about me asking you about secrets, you're conflating things a little bit, but it's. There is something in the family or something in the past that you were debating whether to tell me. And my brother and I. I really wanted to know, but I can tell. Whatever it is, it's that your concern is that this possibly negative thing about someone connected in our history, that. That will sully my perception of them or damage my perception of them. What I've always told you is like, I find it really meaningful and interesting to know all the flavors and the shades of people and the family and the stories and that, you know, knowing something bad about me doesn't make me a piece of shit. You know, like it's just another chapter in our lives.

[Katherine Grody]

But can you imagine anything for any family, including ours, that is something that is absolutely not helpful to know about, that you don't need to know.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think it's important to preserve the mystery of each individual in your life so that you keep leaning in to try to see it, learn it, find out what you don't know. I would never share every little thing about my life with hopefully anyone, including a therapist.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But it's not about your life. It's about somebody else.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, my life. Connection to someone else. Something that is filtered through my existence. Not everything is worth or important, and I think it's important to keep.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I agree.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think it's. I know you do. And I think it's important to keep a wellspring of privacy because I think. I just. I don't know why I think it, but I. But I. I deeply believe it's an important, private treasure chest of your existence.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I agree that that's a healthy thing to keep a lot of things private.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I just want to know whatever this one secret is that mom has.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'll tell you later. I'll tell you later. I don't know if you know. I know it. I know what it is.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Does dad know it?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

He doesn't know it. She just shook her head.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You don't know it. You know the truth. I have no idea what you're talking about. I know.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

None.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Zero.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I know. So if she tells me, I'll then decide whether or not you can know.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, me? Yes.

[Katherine Grody]

Oh, my God.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay. I'll buy you something.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What do you think the chances are that you'll tell me?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom, do you know what he's talking about?

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, I do.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Will you tell Do I know?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Will you tell me?

[Katherine Grody]

I'm not discussing it. Will you tell me?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Sure you will.

[Katherine Grody]

No.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What?

[W. Kamau Bell]

How do you like that?

[Mandy Patinkin]

You lose, pal.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

She's mouthing.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, dad.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Son, she's mouthing. She was just trying to get you off her back.

[Mandy Patinkin]

For when you draw that picture of the family. Next time you draw the picture of the family, they have little kids draw and usually the kids bigger. The mom's real big. You put me.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You make me big. You're very special.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm the one who's gonna hear this.

[Katherine Grody]

I wish I knew.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

If you want.

[Katherine Grody]

To know about Bell.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And his family, you know I got.

[Mandy Patinkin]

A song about if you want to know Everything you want to know Everything you want to do Everything you want to say Everything you want to do Everything you want to know Everything you want to say Come to us knock on my door say you can tell me from the ceiling to the floor yes, everything you want to know Everything you want to do Everything you want to know do everything you want to be Everything you want to go Everything you want to go do and remember these words I love to say have a wonder, wonder, wonder Wonderful day. Thanks for tuning in, everybody.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We want to hear from you. More questions, stories, advice, recipes, jokes, strange things you find underneath your house. And send an email to ask mandy and katherinemail.com or check out our socials for an easy way to send us a voice note. Please leave a review if you're enjoying the show and if you aid the show, just it's optional. Stop. Stop listening. Thank you so much for being here. And remember, don't Listen to Us.

[Katherine Grody]

Listen to Us.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't Listen to Us is a Lemonada Media original hosted by Mandy Patinkin, Katherine Grody and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Created by Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco and Gideon Grody Padinkin. Executive producers are Kathryn Grody, Gideon Grody Pitinkin, Mandy Padinkin, Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles wax. Our engineer is Ryan Derringer of Welterweight Sound. Video and audio production by Mark Whiteway of Bellows Media. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Media Premium yet, now the perfect time you can hear Don't Listen to Us completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like behind the scenes conversations, questions so weird they didn't make it on air. Becky the dog shenanigans and more. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple podcasts. Head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app, or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out.