Transcript

Gideon (0:02)

Lemonade.

Mandy Patinkin (0:06)

Hello dear listeners, it's Gideon, Mandy and Catherine and we are taking a little holiday break before we wander off for a rest. We wanted to share this wonderful, heartfelt, slightly chaotic conversation my mom and dad had with our friends over on We Can Do Hard Things, hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle. In it, my folks talk about how to make a marriage last without losing your mind.

Catherine Grody (0:36)

That's kind of funny.

Mandy Patinkin (0:38)

They lost their minds a long time ago. The holy importance of quiet and how we can hold tight to our humanity while insisting on a more humane world. If you want to hear more of We Can Do Hard Things, follow it wherever you get your podcasts. With more than half a billion plays since it launched as the number one show on Apple, it's a hilarious, raw, deeply comforting support system for braving the everyday. There's also a link in the show notes Happy holidays and we'll see you in 2026.

Podcast Host (We Can Do Hard Things) (1:15)

Mandy Patinkin is a Tony Award winning actor, singer and storyteller whose career spans four decades across stage, film and television. He's known, of course, for unforgettable roles in Evita, Sunday in the Park With George, the Princess Bride, Homeland and Criminal Minds. He has toured the world with his solo concerts and collaborations with icons like Patti LuPone and Nathan Gunn. Since 2020. Mandy and his wife, fellow performing artist Catherine Grody, have offered a delightfully unvarnished glimpse into 45 years of marriage, sparking live shows with their son Gideon and a new Lemonada Media podcast, Don't Listen to Us. Katherine Grody is an Obie Award winning actor and writer whose work spans theater, film and television. She won Obies for Top Girls and the Marriage of Betty and Boo and earned a Drama Desk nomination for her one woman play, A Mom's Life. She has long been active in advocacy with groups including the International Rescue Committee and Downtown Women for Change. The this fall she premieres her new one woman show, a radical, rollicking rumination on the optimism of staying alive. Exploring the transition into elderhood at 78 years young. These two what you are in store.

Gideon (2:34)

They're the best.

Podcast Host (We Can Do Hard Things) (2:35)

I mean this hour, these two. Obviously there's a reason they are two of the most beloved love bugs on the planet. But in this hour you get to feel it this like way that they have brought so much joy and commitment to their marriage, to their parenting and to their the planet. They talk about the arguments they have over and over again and what they really mean. They talk about what it actually means to love a dog or raise a child. And how they're similarly the same. The terror and beauty of watching time pass so fast and trying to hold tight to it. And then how their Judaism has compelled them to show up in this moment on this planet. Exactly how we needed them to. Just snuggle in and listen to these two and allow them to heal your heart.

Summary

Podcast Summary: "We Can Do Hard Things" (feat. Mandy Patinkin & Kathryn Grody)

Podcast: Don't Listen To Us with Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody (on We Can Do Hard Things)
Date: December 24, 2025
Host: Lemonada Media (Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, Amanda Doyle)
Guests: Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody, joined by their son, Gideon

Episode Overview

This episode is a crossover conversation featuring legendary actors Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody, hosted by the team at We Can Do Hard Things. Known for both their enduring marriage and unique blend of wisdom and humor, Mandy and Kathryn open up about love, aging, intimacy, activism, legacy, and what it means to remain humane and hopeful in a challenging world. The discussion weaves personal anecdotes with practical advice and broader commentary on society, offering listeners both comfort and a call to action for more connection and justice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. On Aging, Eldership, and Kathryn’s New Play

Kathryn discusses her solo show, The Unexpected Third: A Radical Rollicking Rumination on the Optimism of Staying Alive, a meditation on aging, loss, and society’s views on elderhood.
- She critiques terms like “senior” and advocates for “elder” as a more dignified label.
- Powerful moment: Young people relate deeply to her play’s challenge to the idea that life is “over” by 35.
- Quote:
  
  “I don’t have a litmus test of how you age. I’m just saying it’s not a shameful thing. I don’t want to think of it as a disease.” — Kathryn (11:17)
Kathryn’s advocacy is rooted in a desire to make conversations about aging more honest and less stigmatized.

2. Marriage & Long-Term Partnership: The Brutalities and Gifts of Intimacy

Mandy and Kathryn reflect candidly on 47 years together, sharing how affection and conflict continually co-exist in a lasting partnership.
- Their marriage has weathered separations, disagreements, and daily negotiations about space and togetherness.
- The couple jokes about “editing” their family dynamic for social media but insists they’re as chaotic as anyone.
Recurring Arguments:
- Holding on vs. letting go of possessions (newspapers, keepsakes) and the underlying desire to hold onto moments as time passes.
- Mandy cherishes quiet and negative space, while Kathryn fills silence with connection and conversation.
- Kathryn: “I am very afraid of quiet.” (28:25)
- Mandy: “I have so much noise in my head all the time… I wish for peace in my brain. I wish for quiet.” (31:02)
- Their love story: met through theater, crossed paths unexpectedly, and forged a bond despite pledges to never date another actor.
Advice on Longevity: Building a relationship requires letting go (or learning to live with) unresolved or recurring issues, practicing patience, and finding humor in daily life.
- Quote:
  
  “They have, over the years, survived and thrived through the brutalities of intimacy… It’s a daring thing. It’s an astonishing thing.” — Amanda Doyle quoting earlier remarks (04:22)

3. Parenthood and Legacy—Raising Children & Holding Memories

Kathryn describes motherhood as both a daily practice of small acts and a lesson in letting go.
- An anecdote about her son helping an elderly stranger reveals her values: “That’s what I’ve been doing. I’ve been raising decent, decent human men.” (13:41)
- She poignantly observes the grief and inevitability in watching children (and parents themselves) change and grow.
The struggle with material “archives” is about a desire to make impermanent moments last—an impulse echoed emotionally in tattoo fantasies and physical hoarding.
- Quote:
  
  “All suffering comes from us grasping, holding on to that which is impermanent… But living things do grow. We are not bonsai plants.” — Kathryn (49:09)

4. Quiet, Conversation, and Individual Needs

Mandy and Kathryn have opposite needs for noise and company.
- Mandy, an introvert, finds restoration in silence and laments the societal push for constant extroversion.
  - Reference to Susan Cain’s book Quiet and praise for the gift of introversion.
- Kathryn loves connecting with people and fills anxious silence with talk, a pattern she acknowledges and works on.
- They strike a deal: Kathryn aims to leave more space for others; Mandy agrees to make more social efforts, even joking “I’ll do one person a year.” (39:13)
- Their son Gideon and hosts reflect that “the talkative partner” offers a kind of caretaking especially visible in family dynamics.

5. Activism, Judaism, and Speaking Out for Justice

Their Jewish faith is deeply entwined with activism and a commitment to repairing a broken world (“tikkun olam”).
- Kathryn’s family legacy: her father, a Russian Jewish immigrant and D-Day veteran, modeled civic responsibility and standing up against injustice.
- Both speak out forcefully against war and for humanity in the context of current events in Israel and Palestine.
- They decry the misuse of anti-Semitism as a shield for injustice.
- Quote:
  
  “You practice kindness. You stand up. This is what I was raised with as a kid. My dad was in the army for five years. …You still stand up for injustice wherever you see it.” — Kathryn (57:09)
- Mandy calls on elders to use their voices courageously:
  - Quote:
    
    “Use your speech. Don’t remain silent. We need to hear you. The world is dependent on your voice.” — Mandy (70:18)
- Both highlight efforts for coexistence, such as Arab/Jewish schools, and urge listeners to break out of isolation and expand circles of empathy.

6. Community, Technology, and the Messy “Authentic” Human

The pandemic’s isolation brought both hardship and new modes of connection (“authentic non-AI community of people struggling to make sense of a world that seems to make utterly no sense” — Kathryn, 42:01).
- They debate the trade-offs of digital meetings vs. in-person (safety vs. authenticity).
- Mandy and Kathryn worry aloud that monetizing authentic connection (recording every hangout as "content") strains real-life bonds.
- They hope their podcast offers a comfortingly unpolished space to be “messy” and real in community.

7. Finding Hope and Meaning Amid Grief and Change

Mandy shares how he uses ritual and memory to stay connected with loved ones: “If I’m ever not here, just go to the wishing well or go to the water, and I’ll be there. Energy never dies.” (53:31)
The episode ends with a call to appreciate the present and let love guide actions—toward ourselves, our families, and our communities.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Marriage:

“You’ve got to weather the brutalities of intimacy. It’s a daring thing.” — Amanda Doyle (04:36)
On Aging:

“I hate the term seniors… Elder has some dignity. It has some gravitas.” — Kathryn (09:24)
On Legacy and Letting Go:

“Don’t grow, don’t change… But living things do grow. We are not bonsai plants.” — Kathryn (49:14)
On Activism:

“You still stand up for injustice wherever you see it. …Examine if we’re using our voices.” — Kathryn (57:09)
On Jewish Social Justice:

“It’s tikkun olam—that means heal the world. You do what you can… one person at a time.” — Kathryn (57:25)
On Never Being Alone:

“As long as there’s one person on earth who remembers you, it isn’t over.” — Mandy, quoting Carousel (54:42)
On Using Your Elder Voice:

“You elders… use your speech. Speak your heart and your mind. …The world is dependent on your voice.” — Mandy (70:18)

Important Timestamps

Kathryn on embracing aging – 07:26–11:37
Marriage & first meeting stories – 22:08–25:13
Recurring marital arguments and quiet vs. talk – 27:53–39:13
Family legacy and letting go – 49:09–51:31
Memory, wishing well, and never being alone – 51:31–54:50
Reflections on activism and using one’s voice – 56:35–71:15

Episode Tone

The conversation is heartfelt, honest, and frequently hilarious, with a blend of wry humor and raw vulnerability. Mandy and Kathryn’s rapport is warm, occasionally chaotic, and always deeply human.

For Listeners

If you seek wisdom on sustaining relationships, parenting, confronting change, standing up for justice, and making meaning in uncertain times, this episode radiates both comfort and challenge. Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody model the messy, ordinary heroism of loving relentlessly and never giving up on hope or each other.

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We Can Do Hard Things (feat. Mandy & Kathryn)