What Do Our Dreams Really Tell Us?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Don’t Listen To Us (Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody, Gideon Grody Patinkin)

Episode: “What Do Our Dreams Really Tell Us?”

Date: March 18, 2026
Host: Lemonada Media

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode takes listeners into the strange, personal, and often emotional world of dreams. Mandy, Kathryn, and Gideon field dream stories and questions from listeners, reflect on dreams from their own lives, debate their deeper meanings, and share the warmth, humor, and messiness of their family dynamic. Interwoven are discussions about grief, family, symbolism, and even a light-hearted ice cream taste test—making for an episode that is as tender as it is quirky.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Dreams & Interpretations

• [02:52] Willie’s Recurring House Dream:
  Willie describes dreaming of a house where the rooms are always changing, always more to explore.
  • Kathryn’s take ([03:38]): Sees this as a positive, abundant dream signalling new possibilities and the joy of exploration:

    “That the house is familiar, but you have all these new possibilities… That’s how I interpret it. Every room is different. It means different things are going to happen, different places to explore, different possibilities to have.”

  • Mandy’s take ([04:31]): Approaches it more from a psychoanalytic angle:

    “I think she’s lost and she’s trying to get home… looking for her childhood.”

2. The Hosts’ Own Dreams

• Mandy’s Dreams of Death ([05:03]):
  Mandy shares recent dreams about dying, described vividly as a draining, blacking-out experience:

  "I was aware that I was dying… That my life was going to be over. And… I said, tell everybody I love them… It was crystal clear that this is exactly… this is dying."

  • Describes feeling no fear, just fascination, acknowledging how dreams can force us to confront mortality.

• Kathryn’s Dreams ([08:07]):
  Kathryn mostly experiences fleeting fragments and often can’t hold onto dreams upon waking, possibly because her mind races during the daytime.

• Gideon’s Surreal Dream ([08:23]):
  Gideon recounts a recurring dream involving blue bubble wrap, eggs, animals with mismatched heads, eating, blood, and transforming into a table at a feast. The family debates its meaning, with Kathryn awed, Mandy suggesting “psychedelic residue,” and Kathryn noting how it incorporates themes of creativity, cooking, and animal identity.

  • Kathryn ([14:34]):

    “I think it addresses all sorts of things with you—beauty and your love of cooking and your interest in animals… and the table. You love setting a table. You love having people at your table. You make phenomenal gatherings.”

  • Mandy ([15:30]):

    “I think it means that you’re searching for a way to say how much you love your father.”

  • Gideon ([15:35]):

    "Yes, I think that's... that's beautiful."

3. The Nature and Meaning of Dreams

• Are Dreams Meaningful or Random?

  • Mandy ([15:47]):

    “I believe in them… I believe in the theory that you are everything and everyone. In the dream. You are.”

  • Mandy’s view is that dreams reflect everything inside us—they are not just subconscious noise, but can be as ‘real’ as waking life.
  • Kathryn suggests that her busy, imaginative mind during the day might mean fewer vivid dreams at night.

• Listener Science Backing (Liz’s Email) ([27:23]):
  Liz, who teaches neuroscience, writes in to confirm Mandy’s belief that the brain literally cannot tell the difference between waking experiences and vivid dreams—both are processed as equally “real” by the brain:

  “I just want to let you know that scientifically speaking, he is 100% correct. I was taught in neuroscience that the brain receives waking perceptions and sleeping perceptions—dreams—on an equal footing and cannot tell the difference. Both are equally real to the brain.”

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Dream Interpretation:
  Mandy ([04:48]):

  “You don’t need to [read Freud]. Just ask me.”

• On Mortality:
  Mandy ([07:18]):

  “It was kind of amazing that it wasn’t real because it felt so profoundly unlike anything I’ve ever known… That is not what I expected. That is not what’s in the… movies... or poems.”

• On Family and Influence:
  Mandy ([22:28]):

  “What you do, whoever you are, and whatever you do, affects people. It ripples through the world, the universe… and you’ll never know that, but that’s how it works.”

• On Kindness and Memory:
  Gideon ([23:22]):
  Shares a story about a gym teacher’s small act of kindness having a lifelong impact.

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Notable Listener Stories

• Liz’s Letter on Grief and Dreams ([27:23-33:36]):
  Touching account of nightly dreams spent with her late father—a powerful reminder that dreams can be a gift during the process of grieving.

  • Kathryn ([32:33]):

    "Everybody has their different experiences with how people express love or seem not to express it, but you find different ways of appreciating how they do."

• Kim’s Story on Starting Over ([21:14]):
  Kim shares how her father, after four heart attacks, went back to school at 45, graduated as an RN at 50, and worked another 20 years—a testament to resilience and change.

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Fun & Lighthearted Segments

• Toilet Paper Debate ([24:30-26:33]):
  Francesca from London explains why cat owners have to hang toilet paper “the wrong way.” Mandy:

  “No, we don’t have a cat… My dog doesn’t do that kind of stuff.”

• Ice Cream Taste Test ([34:14-39:24]):
  A blind taste test pits oat milk, plant-based, and regular vanilla ice creams against each other:

  • Kathryn nails the taste test; Mandy wrongly claims he can’t tell oat milk from regular.
  • Mandy, having recently sworn off sugar, laments, “I just am angry now at ice cream.” ([39:15])
  • On ice cream and nostalgia, Kathryn reflects:

    "[Ice cream] is a slow time. It's a slow food dessert. You can't wolf down ice cream because you get a brain freeze and it sort of is evocative of summer and laziness... it's a pleasure to go slow with an ice cream cone." ([39:53])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:52 | Willie’s dream of the changing house | | 03:38 | Kathryn & Mandy’s interpretations | | 05:03 | Mandy’s recurring “death” dreams | | 08:23 | Gideon’s surreal recurring dream | | 13:09 | Theories on dreams, psychoactive substances, identity | | 15:47 | Are dreams meaningful? | | 18:55 | Listener feedback: Cancer as “crab” | | 19:03 | Kathryn on daydreams vs. night dreams | | 21:14 | Kim’s voicemail: starting over in midlife | | 22:28 | Mandy: lasting impact of kindness | | 24:30 | Toilet paper debate | | 27:23 | Liz’s letter on dreams, neuroscience, and grief | | 32:33 | Reflections on expressing love | | 34:14 | Ice cream taste test | | 39:53 | Kathryn on nostalgia and ice cream |

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Overall Tone & Atmosphere

• Warm, familial, and candid.
• Open to humor and absurdity, but unafraid to go deep and vulnerable—especially around grief, aging, and the mysteries of consciousness.
• Self-deprecating and inclusive, regularly bringing in listener voices as part of the family conversation.

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For New Listeners

If you haven’t listened, this episode captures everything distinctive about Don’t Listen To Us: unscripted family dynamics, big existential topics approached with wit and warmth, a sense that listeners are integral to the show, and the realization that exploring life’s meaning can be as messy and surprising as a dream.

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Closing Requests

Listeners are invited to send in their own questions, stories, or weird dreams, and the hosts express deep gratitude for the community’s willingness to share heartfelt experiences.

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Notable Closing Quote

Mandy ([20:36]):

“I refuse to believe that [dreams] are any different than me seeing you or talking to this microphone… What sometimes happens in my dream, and I have the right to choose, is an equal reality that my brain experiences to hearing my dog bark, seeing the trees and the light outside the window… I believe it deeply.”

Transcript

[Mandy Patinkin]

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[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

On this episode of Don't Listen to Us.

[Kathryn Grody]

When I turned to say goodbye, I saw the fragile imprint of illness on his face and all the anger drained right out of me. For the first time in my own memory, I said, you know, I really love you, dad. Tears sprang to his eyes, down his face and kept coming so hard he couldn't speak at all. Not even to say, take care of yourself. When I finally said bye and slipped out of the car after that, I told him I loved him every time he needed to hear it more than me. Oh, my God. Who are these wonderful people out there? I mean, Liz, thank you for sharing. Other than my husband won't recover. Honey, that is just so incredibly beautiful.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I got a scan and I don't have thyroid cancer, so that's always nice.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

And your thyroid is totally fine.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thyroid's good to go.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm using it right now, even, believe it or not.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

All right.

[Kathryn Grody]

Becky, do you ever have your cholesterol levels checked?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, God,

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

yes. I have everything checked. I go to my wash under your penis. I wash under everyone's penis.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

Okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You got a penis there? I'll wash under it. Okay, we're gonna do our first listener voice notes, so we're gonna pop in our headphones. We've got a question from Willie, who leaves us very interesting messages in our inbox. And we consider her a friend of the show. And we'll have to have her on at some point. This isn't a question, really, it's just a dream she had. And we like these weird voice notes, by the way, so please be weird with us. And as we're weird with you, send them along. Okay, here is Willie's message.

[Willie (listener)]

I dream of house. It's the same house and it says same steps. But when I get to the hallway at the top of the steps, the rooms are always set up different. I'm finding extra rooms. I'm finding rooms beyond the rooms. And it's quite fascinating because every Time I have this dream. There's different rooms and you go in a room and there's a couple steps down, there's another room. I turn right, there's another room. And it's quite interesting every time I dream it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So you guys are really good at dream interpretation. What do you think this means for Willie?

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Well, I think I'm really envious of your dream, Willie, because first of all, I don't dream very much these days. Or if I do, I remember little fragments. When I wake up, I can't hold onto a dream. I think that's an incredibly positive dream. That the house is familiar, but you have all these new possibilities. That's how I interpret it. Every room is different. It means different things are going to happen, different places to explore, different possibilities to have. I mean, I would be thrilled if I had that dream. I'm going to have to borrow that dream and pretend it's mine.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So you think that's an abundantly positive and comforting dream?

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

To me it's abundantly positive and encouraging to explore new things and not just familiar things. Like if you're in the same house with the same room all the time.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Interesting. Dad, what did you think of Willie's dream?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think she's lost and she's trying to get home and I think she's looking for home when she was young. I think she's looking for her childhood.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I love that.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I tried to read Freud's interpretation of dreams. I didn't get past the fifth.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You don't need to hun. Just ask me.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Yeah, yeah. Well, those are two totally different interpretations. That's classic of me.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And dad, do you guys have recurring dreams ever? Any that is shareable, I'll share one

[Mandy Patinkin]

that I think is preparing me to die, believe it or not. Well, we could all use some of them in the last two weeks, really. And it's very interesting to me. I've never had a dream like it, nothing like it. I described it to mom like a very fast, like water just going. Like if I held this glass up and the water just quickly pulled out and I was aware of that I was dying, that I'd never had the feeling like this before, that my life was going to be over. And the second one was very similar. My head was being drained and I knew that and I kept saying stroke, stroke, stroke to people, that it was a stroke. And I actually woke up and I said to mom in the morning, I think I had mini strokes during these dreams. Certainly the second one felt like a mini stroke because Everything was leaving my head, and I was trying to warn people. Stroke, stroke, stroke. And then I black out. Just like I did in the first dream, I knew I was dying. I blacked out. And at the moment that I was gone, and it was fascinating to me because it was crystal clear that this is exactly. This is dying. This is what it feels like. These last moments of the food of your brain. If it's blood or whatever it is, electrical impulses is just being pulled out and out, out, and you're. And it's over. The first one, I was just. I think I said, tell everybody I love them. The first. That's what I said. The first one I said, tell the kids I love them. Tell all the kids I love them. And then I said to mom, but I didn't. I didn't say, tell you I love them because I was telling you to tell the kids I love them. And I was hoping you would know that I loved you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, we also know you love us in case you want to. You know, in case I forget. In case you want to save those last words for something, you know.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Anyway, I have these within. Maybe within a week, but certainly within two weeks. Never a dream like that in my life. And I dream a fair amount. This was so wild to me. And I wasn't frightened by it. I was like. I remember thinking, okay, okay, I get it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Did it feel like a relief to wake up from that and be okay?

[Mandy Patinkin]

It was kind of amazing that it wasn't real because it felt so profoundly unlike anything I've ever known. Which I guess is how I would imagine being out of this body. But I. But I also felt that my brain was over. I didn't feel that it was going on. I didn't see white light. I just felt like it's over. And I was. I just remember in both cases going, that's pretty wild. That is not what I expected. That is not what. It's in the. It's not in the movies. It's not in the poems. It's not the mythology that you hear about. And it's just like. Except for hearing Becky walk.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Quiet. Wow. And you don't have any recurring ones?

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Mom, I don't have any recurring dreams that I know of. I had a dream you were in the other day because I woke up in mid conversation with you about something. And then I always remember with dreams

[Kathryn Grody]

going, oh, yeah, I gotta remember that

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

as soon as my eyes are open, I've.

[Kathryn Grody]

It's gonna.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I have. I have a recurring dream you do? Yeah. And I'm wondering what you guys make of it. It's. It's been happening like every few months for a couple years. I'm in the kitchen, I'm naked, but cocooned with like blue bubble wrap, you know, like the packaging, blue bubble wrap. And I'm whisking eggs. And as I'm whisking the eggs and I'm looking at the bowl, there's more bowls of eggs and more whisks. And I have more hands and everything. And when I look up from the eggs, the entire room is a jungle with zebras and monkeys and elephants and tigers and cats. But every one of the animals has a different head on a different body part. So it's a zebra with a tiger's head or a giraffe with a lion's head. And they're all just looking at me. And the second I see them, I go to stop whisking the eggs. And then they open their eyes really wide, like as though the whisking of the eggs, like they're depending on it. And then there's a large sound from above. And we look up and it's just flowers, like slowly falling to the ground like gerber daisies and dahlias and all that falling. And all the flowers are landing on the animals heads. But the second the first flower petal lands on the ground, the animals start tearing each other apart and eating each other and consuming them. And then I look down at the eggs and the eggs are scrambled. They've cooked in the bowls by themselves. And I look up at the animals and instead of being afraid, I just dive in and I cut the blue plastic bubble wrap off my body. And my body is actually an animal. It's sort of like the bottom of a seahorse. And I dive in and I start eating all the anim. And we're just in a mess of blood and bone and marrow and skin and fur. And then I hear the door slam shut. And I open my eyes and everything is clean and immaculate and the room is clean. But I look down at my belly and it's a table. And my whole body is a table. And everyone I know is coming in through the door. And they start setting the table for a feast. Somebody goes to light a candle. Candle explodes. And I wake up.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Gideon, I don't believe that's a dream. I believe you just made up that brilliant, brilliant tape.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, no, that is.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I do not believe for one second.

[Kathryn Grody]

That's amazing.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You're having that dream every two or three months for years.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Gideon.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What do you think?

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[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

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[Mandy Patinkin]

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[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

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[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I think you're the most creative human being I've ever met. That is upside and downside. When you were younger, you felt nobody lived creative enough lives.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What does that dream mean? I need to.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

That dream. What does that dream mean?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What are the flowers?

[Mandy Patinkin]

What's it called when you have too much THC and then you have a relapse? Not a relapse, but after a while it comes back and you have too much marijuana. And then a good time. No. The high or the acid trip or the come down. No, it's not a come down. You take certain drugs. Acid, marijuana. If I heard about, you know, ganj. Certain things. No, no, it's not syndrome.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It just comes the wiggle up when

[Mandy Patinkin]

you go wiggle up like. Like a recurring. Like a. Like a relapse or. It's not a relapse though.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's outlaps.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, forget it. You're fucking with me. It. But I. It sounds to me like. Well, what's that stuff you did? The mushrooms. The psychedelic mushrooms. Right. So I haven't done them. Although mom and I would like to at some point. But it sounds like you have done them, which I know you have. And it sounds to me like it's a residual. A residue. Yeah, residual of it left in your System and it comes back to give you dreams like you've just described that, that sound, I mean, having not done these, what's it called that I just said? Drugs, the psilocybin and things. That's what sounds to me like a relapse of previously ingested chemicals.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I think it sounds like it addresses all sorts of things with you beauty and your love of cooking and your interest in animals and your.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I have an interest in animals.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Interest in animals.

[Kathryn Grody]

What is my interest in animals?

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Your interest in animals is like your friends that are friends with the bear people and pet sitting psychics and a dog beauty, friends with the bear people and the table. You love setting a table. You love having people at your table. You make phenomenal gatherings.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Why are the different animals?

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Well, maybe you would like to be a different person or maybe you would like the idea of being able to exchange identities with animals. And you're always talking about humans being animals. But then there's the beauty of the flowers contrasted with the horror of the violence of everybody eating each other.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think it means that you're searching for a way to say how much you love your father.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes, I think that's, that's beautiful.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Pretty sure that's it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do you guys, aside from my dream, do you fundamentally believe in dreams and the power and the meaning, or do you think they're just random?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I believe in them. But in all seriousness, because I did certainly ask, as most of us do, I believe in the theory that you are everything and everyone. In the dream. You are.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm the zebra, you are the eggs.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Everything, everything. You're the table. You're, you're, you're the bubble wrap. And you're all the people in the dreams. Everybody you've seen, even if it's people you've known. You're, you are them. And it is about you. It is how your brain, unconscious, subconscious processes things that are floating around. I was. Your question fascinated me just now and because I've just had these two dreams and we have friends that are dying in our age group, you know, we are not trying to think about that. We are trying to exercise and eat right and stay active and do everything to live. So it's not like, it's not like I have morbid thoughts. And so, you know, I could literally, in this discussion, I could interpret those dreams as encouraging me to live. Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Or encouraging you to meditate and empty your mind or to maybe.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But it could be, hey, buddy, you know, you're at a certain age. This could be around the Corner, you know, get out there and live a little more. Right. If you think you're living a lot today, double it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Or maybe it means you need to take a shit, empty your bowels. Excuse me? I'm just saying there's different ways to interpret it.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Oh, my God.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You were talking about draining, flushing it out.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wasn't. I didn't.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I don't.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Sometimes living with this family, I really feel like I'm Victorian or something. I really.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

In Japan, you can rent different family members.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah. How come Toto Toilet isn't one of our sponsors?

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Oh, yeah. That is trying to get Toto Toilet for a while.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Hey, this next part is really fun.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We're gonna just roll through these. I lowered the temperature on the toilet seat of the Toto Toilet. If you're listening at Toto Toilet, I'd be a good spokesperson. Thank you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I want to share with you some listener feedback. So we get a lot of feedback in the comments and in our inbox. Usually it's very affectionate, but also sometimes you guys are reminding us of all the things we don't know. Fair enough. We are really grateful for each and every one of you. So thank you for being in touch with us. We're now going to run through a few of your responses to our show. So, first piece of feedback. We did an episode about astrology a while ago, and one of the things we didn't know was about the cancer sign, the crab. We wondered if it had anything to do with the word for the disease, cancer. So here's a comment that we got from a viewer on YouTubeizabethgullen3810. She said the disease is called cancer because tumors often look like crabs. The Greek word for crab is carcinos, coined by the Greek physician Hippocrates.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, wow. I've never seen a picture of a tumor, so that's interesting to me. Maybe so.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. And that was one of your questions answered by our listener.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Wow. I also just want to say one thing about dreams. I used to have so much going on, and I would describe something I thought of to a friend, and they would say, was that a dream or when you were awake? So I think maybe the reason I don't dream is because my brain is working overtime during the day, fantasizing all the horrible things I'm worried about will happen to me or my family or people I love.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom brings up an interesting thing to bring back, the dream thing. I feel very strongly about something I feel. And this is. I don't know how to quite tie it to it, but it's about the dream. If you dream, if you lose your father and you're waiting, when will I dream about him? I love my dad. When will he show up in a dream? For me, it was six years. But when he showed up, I refused to accept because I live in my imagination, and that's all happening up here, and I refuse to accept that this conversation I'm having with you and feeling I'm touching mom right here with my left hand on her right shoulder. All of this is called reality. But when I see my father in a dream, you call it my subconscious, my unconscious. A dream, you have all kinds of names out there for it. I refuse to believe that it's any different than me seeing you or talking to this microphone. That, for me, what sometimes happens in my dream, and I have the right to choose, is an equal reality that my brain experiences to hearing my dog bark, seeing the trees and the light outside the window. Yeah, I believe it deeply.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, I hear that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So I just want to get that out there.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

In case I die right now.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

The next one is a voice note about starting over. We can put our headphones in. Mom and dad, remember Brit in our very first episode? She was a chef who was working in an assisted living facility.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Yes, I do.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

She asked about starting over in midlife. She wanted to quit and open a food truck. Your conversation with Britt led to a voice note from Kim. So we're gonna have a listen to Kim right here.

[Kim (listener)]

Hi, this is Kim, and I just listened to your first episode. There was a gal that called in Britt, I believe her name was, who was talking about being afraid to start something new. I will tell you that when my dad was 45, he'd had four heart attacks and felt like it was time to change his life. He graduated at the top of his RN class at the age of 50 and went on to work for another 20 years. So I love the advice you gave. I am so glad that I found your podcast. Have a great day.

[Kathryn Grody]

Wow.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I mean, that just gave you chills to think of having any impact, you know, and sort of forming this community. Because my favorite way of being with people is in what I call three dimensions and in person. And I'm always critical of, you know, zooms, podcast, podcasts. What are we doing?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I just like seeing them in my dreams.

[Kathryn Grody]

It just really.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

That's really touching. I love knowing about a guy that had heart attacks and at 45, went to nursing school and graduated at 15, became top of the class and became an RN.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, that's a note to us all. I used to say it to Paul Ford, who, you know, he'd be depressed or I'd be depressed one day, and we'd go into rehearse for two, three hours. And, you know, the air, going in and out, playing the piano, singing. All of a sudden you walk out two hours later and you feel better. And I'd say to him at times, you know, Paul, we get these letters from people. Thank you for your music. It helped me get through my parents, this or my cancer, my troubles here or there. And I would say to him, you know, Paul, most of the time we don't hear from the people who hear our music or what we make or what we do. And I think it's so important to remember that what you do, whoever you are, and whatever you do affects people. It ripples through the world, the universe. You know, some little kid sees it and decides to do something. And you'll never know that, but that's. That's how it works.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

My. My. My gym teacher, Mr. Rubiera, and fourth from fourth grade, found out he lives down the road. Went up to his house in. In Covid and had coffee with him in the porch. I said, I don't know if you remember him. He said, oh, yeah. I said, when I was. When I was in gymnastics PE class with you, Mr. R was helping me do a back handspring, and his thumb or something got hooked on my sweatpants. And they got pulled down for a second and my butt was exposed. And two of the kids saw that my butt was exposed. And all the kids started laughing or teasing. And you, Mrs. Rubiera, you came out of nowhere and you did a whole little dance and distracted all the kids from making fun of me. And I felt like you saved my life. And I thought about that moment for the last 30 years. I was like, you don't remember that, do you? He's like, no, but I do that kind of thing all the time. And it meant so much to him.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Lasting effect from his little action. Yeah, that's what that.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Kindness.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, it does. It's really, really true.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay, next one is about toilet paper. There's an email about toilet paper. Dad, you probably don't remember, but early on this season, you expressed some very strong feelings about the right way to hang toilet paper. Can you refresh our memories, what your stance on toilet paper hanging means?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, if I'm sitting on the toilet and the toilet paper is on my Right. I don't want the paper coming down from the bottom. I want it on top so that I pull it right from the top.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Right.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And some people, literally guests in your house, flip the fucking toilet paper roll. And it's a lot of nerve.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Right, so we have this note from Francesca for Dad to read and she sorely disagrees. Read that out for us, dad.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hi, guys. Loved the first episode of the Pod. But, Mandy, clearly you don't have a cat. That's why you turn the roll round, as otherwise the cat thinks it's a brilliant toy and unrolls the whole damn thing in about 12 seconds into a white pyramid on the floor. They can't do it if you turn the roll round. However, fair point that it's very weird to go into someone else's house and change their roles round. Look forward to the next episode. Francesca. London, England. Francesca, are you persuaded? No, we don't have a cat. It's not a matter of being persuaded. I totally see her point. I agree with it. It seems absolutely. Well, first of all, the way I'm talking about putting on toilet paper, a cat can pull it down too.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

No, no.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, that's what she's saying. You can't pull it down if it's the other way. Right. So point well taken. If I had a cat, that's maybe why I don't have a cat. My dog doesn't do that kind of stuff.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But, dad, if you're trying to figure out which guest is the culprit, it's the one who has a cat. Interview your friends and find out who has a cat.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's always going to be my friend, Vicky Traub. She loves cats more than anyone I know.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And even if she hasn't been in my house, I know somehow she's found a way to influence some individual who sat on my Toto toilet. Another possibility for thinking of me as an advertiser for Toto Toilet.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Never before has an individual worked so hard to get sponsored by a toilet. This last email was in response about what happens after death. And we received this email after the episode called how to Talk To Whales and what Happens After Death, where we talked about different ideas of the afterlife. So this is a bit long, but it's so beautiful. And we wanted to share it in its entirety. This letter comes from Liz and wondering if, mom, you could read this for us.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Ooh.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Hi, Mandy, Catherine and Gideon. I just watched the episode from October 29th. In it, Mandy says that the dreams he has of sitting with his dad and mom are no less real to his brain than sitting with Catherine and Gideon while he's awake. 100% equally real to his brain, he said. And I just want to let you know that scientifically speaking, he is 100% correct. I was taught in neuroscience that the brain receives waking perceptions and sleeping perceptions dreams on an equal footing and cannot tell the difference. Both are equally real to the brain.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh my God. I love this.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh my God.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Go on.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

This is the reason why atonia, a temporary state of muscle paralysis, is essential during REM sleep when we experience our most vivid dreams. Without atonia, our brains would attempt to bodily respond to the dream as it responds to waking stimuli. Here's my own vivid dream life after death story. When my dad was diagnosed with als, I was living in New York City, completely broke, trying to build a new career after injuring my back as a stage painter. Dad was upstate, a five hour bus ride away. The doctor told my parents he might live two to five years. But then the doctor turned and looked at me and his expression said, sooner than that. From that look, I guessed or hoped that dad might live one year. So I decided right then that I was going to take that bus upstate every two weeks, no matter what. If he lived a year, I'd only be with him 24 more times.

[Kathryn Grody]

Not enough, but I hoped wrong. After his diagnosis, dad lived four months.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I saw him eight times.

[Kathryn Grody]

Each time as I was leaving, I put my hand to his face and said, I love you, dad. Until that last time, when he could no longer speak, he always responded, take care of yourself. He could never say I love you back. But he didn't need to. We had fought a lot in the years before he started getting sick.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

That is, I fought him.

[Kathryn Grody]

My dad was as gentle as they come. He used to tell people I was tough as nails because I was so angry at him sometimes, but I was really just like him. Around the time he first started showing signs of being ill and we had begun asking doctors what could be wrong, I got worked up over something.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

His dad was driving me to the bus station to go back to New York City, and I was yelling at

[Kathryn Grody]

him like Biff Lowman as he pulled the car up to drop me off. When I turned to say goodbye, I saw the fragile imprint of illness on his face and all the anger drained right out of me. For the first time in my own memory, I said, you know, I really love you, dad. Tears sprang to his eyes, down his face and kept coming so hard he couldn't speak at all. Not Even to say, take care of yourself. When I finally said bye and. And slipped out of the car after that, I told him I loved him every time he needed to hear it more than me. For two years after dad died, every single night, I had very vivid dreams of being with him, joking around with him. Not memories, new interactions. It was an unexpected gift during that most acute period of grief. And every night when I went to sleep, I knew I was going to see dad. And you'd think we would try to say to each other all the things we'd never been able to say before, but it wasn't like that. When I saw him in my dreams, I saw a man who already knew everything. I had fought so hard to try

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

to get him to understand while he

[Kathryn Grody]

was alive so we could just be together and laugh. He still never said I love you, and. And I still didn't need him to. It was written all over his face and always had been. Like, Mandy, I think that E equals MC2 means that our life energy and bodies must simply become different forms of

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

energy and matter when we die.

[Kathryn Grody]

As with all drugs, as with all things in the universe, we were formed from stardust, and unto stardust we will eventually return. Warmest wishes to all of you. Liz. Oh, my God. Who are these wonderful people out there? I mean, Liz, thank you for sharing. Other than my husband won't recover. Honey, that is just so incredibly beautiful.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I don't.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I don't even know if there's any response we need to say except thank you, Liz.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

For sharing that with us.

[Willie (listener)]

Thank you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I feel very privileged that you would share it with us.

[Kathryn Grody]

I do, too. You know, I just. I just want to say one thing. You know, I remember my. One of my closest friends and director, Timothy near years ago, we were saying goodbye in New York and I kissed her goodbye and she said, kath, do we have to kiss goodbye every time? And I said, yeah, we do, because you never know. And you know, everybody has their different experiences with how people express love or seem not to express it, but you find different ways of appreciating how they do. And I just think that's a great reminder that it's not always in the words or actions, but in responses and

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

the feelings that you have with people.

[Kathryn Grody]

That is so beautiful, Liz.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

God, thank you for sharing so much and thanks for reading it, Matt.

[Kathryn Grody]

I really don't have any more words.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I just had to reread this again. Sometimes it's okay to just let our friends out there have their experience.

[Kathryn Grody]

Thank you so much. Liz,

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Some of our listeners have noticed that when we get questions about finding joy and pleasure in life or even questions about misery and struggle. Dad, you often suggest two things. Mom, do you know what they are? Two things dad often goes back to with just general advice.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Advice for joy or anything. Eat something sweet.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Ice cream.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Ice cream. And workout.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Or get a dog.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Oh, ice cream and a dog.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So, dad, you claimed in an earlier episode that there's no difference between oat milk ice cream and regular ice cream. So we're going to do a taste test test today to see if that's true. Now, I know that you're not eating.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I can do a taste test. Okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Because I got you a spittoon here. If you need to spit out your ice cream, you could still.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay. I don't think I'll need to do it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay, great. So there's your spoons.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I would disagree with dad on this one profoundly. I think the taste differences.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So we've got three different kinds of ice cream, and you guys are going to guess which one.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Have you masked them?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I have.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Oh, my God.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Stuck in this cooler. There we go. Opening the cooler.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Wow. This is fun. I didn't expect this. Really nice.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

This is type one.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

This is type two.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And this is type three. I've put them in.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

And the only difference is which is oat milk and which is regular.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So there's a plant based milk. There's regular and there's oat milk. Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Plant based, regular and oat milk. Here's one. Okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So, ma, taste that one at the same time as dad. Dad, don't say yet. To influence mom's thing. Okay, so that's one. You can make some notes there.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Well, it's confusing because. What flavor is that?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

They're all vanilla.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

They're all vanilla.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

The same flavor.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

This is the second one.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, that's the second one. Second vanilla dad is making.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Where's the detailed notes? Why is that one open?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I opened all of them.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Oh, second one.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Here, honey, take your spoon with you, will you, please?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Is she not following proper taste test etiquette?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, here you go. And now the third.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Now the third.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

You know, this is. If I fail this, it's going to affirm the fact that I think my smell and taste have been diminished from

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

COVID Now, which one. Which one do you guys think tastes the best? Aside from what which one was. What kind of milk?

[Mandy Patinkin]

What.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Which one do you think?

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I thought number two tasted the best.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Dad, he's got very detailed notes. He's trying to decipher them.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I like number one the best because I'm used to it. And I'm pretty sure that's the oat milk.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Interesting.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I thought the number one was plant based, the number two was regular milk and number three was oat.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay. And dad, what'd you think?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I have Number one being oat milk, number two being plant based, number three being regular. No, no, number two being a classic. Shit. Where was number two? Yeah, I get back in there.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

This is number two.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I got confused.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I wrote classic for regular.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's normal. Number two is classic.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay. And then number three, you think is plant?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Because I think it tasted shitty. Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay. Catherine Grody was 100% correct.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What did she say?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

She said number one was plant, number two was regular, and number three was oat. You were just right about number two being regular.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Oh, I love this.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And the one you said tastes shitty is the one you previously claimed there was no difference between oatmeal number three. Yeah. Oat milk ice cream and regular ice cream.

[Kathryn Grody]

Wow.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Which one do you like the best?

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I like regular the best.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And you felt that way before?

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I told you, I felt totally that way before milk, you know?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You know, but dad liked the plant based the best this time.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

Did you?

[Mandy Patinkin]

It was plant. I thought it was oat milk, but it was plant. Gid says.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Care.com Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

Okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So that was coconut.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I mean, I'm feeling like Michael Pollan, who said, when did bread become.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Here, let's get rid of these.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

A dangerous food. And I'm feeling like, when did milk become something awful? Unless you have a real problem, like you're lactose intolerant.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do you feel differently about oat milk ice cream now that that happened?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm upset. This is what the results are.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Want to do it again? No.

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I like that, though. I so love knowing the taste difference. It made me feel better about my taste.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What is it about ice cream? Do you guys think that is so unifying and that is such a like go to for happiness for people? Is it nostalgia, childhood, summer leisure, Psychological as much as physiological? What? What's it for you and dad?

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's no longer escape into pleasure because I've decided not to have the sugar. So this test has upset me because I had three spoonfuls of sugar.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I brought you a spittoon.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It was hard to taste it and spit it out. It's ice cream. It melts in your mouth. Have you ever had ice cream?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I just want to say, you know what else melts in your mouth? Liquid People spit liquid out.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm not debating this.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm saying I was considering it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I appreciate your consideration. And so I just am angry now at ice cream.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How long have you been off the scoops?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'd say about a month and a week or, you know, four to six weeks.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. You've been on and off the scoops your whole life, huh?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, but longer because I get off at least three to four weeks before I have to start singing.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So I've probably been off a good two months.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Plus, when you go back to the scoops, are you a one scoop guy, two scoop guy?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm a double scoop cone guy.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What kind of scoop you do, Ma?

[Mandy Patinkin's wife (possibly Catherine Grody)]

I do two scoops when I'm really indulgent. That's a trouble. I think ice cream is my favorite, one of my very favorite desserts. I think it is nostalgic. You know what it is? It's a slow time. It's a slow food dessert. You can't wolf down ice cream because you get a brain freeze and it sort of is evocative of summer and laziness and, you know, antidote to heat. And it's a pleasure to go slow with an ice cream cone to make it last as long as possible.

[Mandy Patinkin]

This is like an alcoholic listening to people talking about their favorite drinks.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Great. We want to hear from you guys out there, all the Liz's of the world and other people, questions, stories, advice for us, advice for your friends, dreams. Please send them to ask mandyandcatherinemail.com or check out our socials for an easy way to send us a voice note. And thanks so much for being here and, and tuning in and we'll. We'll see you next time.

[Kathryn Grody]

Thanks, everyone.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't listen to Us is a Lemonada Media original hosted by Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Created by Katrina Onstad, Debbie Pacheco and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Executive producers are Kathryn Grody, Gideon Gridy Pedinkin, Mandy Padinkin, Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles Wax. Our engineer is Ryan Derringer of Welterweight sound. Video and audio production by Mark Whiteway of Bellows Media. You can watch on CNN.com watch or the CNN app. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Media Premium yet, now's the perfect time. You can hear don't listen to Us completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like behind the scenes conversations, questions so weird they didn't make it on air. Becky the Dog Shenanigans and more. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple podcasts. Head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app, or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out.