What To Hang On Your Walls and a Surprising Taste Test

Summary

Podcast Summary: "What To Hang On Your Walls and a Surprising Taste Test"

Podcast: Don’t Listen To Us with Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody
Episode Date: December 17, 2025
Host: Lemonada Media
Featuring: Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody, Gideon Grody Patinkin

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Episode Overview

This episode finds Mandy, Kathryn, and their son Gideon riffing on everything from interior decor and family memorabilia to intergenerational definitions of hard times. The trio responds to listener questions about what to hang on your walls as new homeowners, muse on embracing failure, and end up in a hilariously gross taste test of dog treats. Throughout, the warmth and chaos of this family dynamic deliver both wisdom and laugh-out-loud moments.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Casual Cool Mandy & Family Banter

• [00:46] Gideon invites Mandy to “act” as “casual cool Mandy” to see if he can express himself without getting intense.
• Lighthearted moments as Mandy pretends to channel Harpo Marx by being silent.
• This episode maintains its usual playful, irreverent tone, with many family side conversations, digressions about their dog Becky, and affectionate ribbing.

Quote:

"I'd like to invite you into a role I call casual cool Mandy...just to see if that's a mode you can find."
— Gideon (00:46)

2. Pop Culture Blind Spots & Empathy for Child Stars

• [03:11] The family discusses their detachment from current pop culture, referencing Taylor Swift, Billie Eilish, and a newfound empathy for Miley Cyrus after seeing an interview.
• Kathryn reflects on the harsh world of child stardom:

“I have empathy for any baby that is thrown out into that media world. I think it's a hell realm...” (03:48)

3. Listener Question: What to Hang on Your Walls?

• [06:01] Benjamin from Minneapolis asks what Mandy and Kathryn first hung up in their home.
• Kathryn remembers wedding photos, an antique toy cubby, and a photograph she loved but Mandy didn’t.
• Mandy prefers not to fill up walls too quickly, advocating for "negative space."
• The family humorously debates whether they have more or less negative space now than before.
• Discussion of meaningful keepsakes like Gideon’s bar mitzvah invitation.

Quotes:

“It’s nice to just not just fill up your walls immediately. Just enjoy that. You're gonna make this home together and see what happens.”
— Kathryn (07:51)

“I like Mom’s way of decorating a house. It's very personal.”
— Mandy (12:26)

• The family recalls allowing Gideon to create a mural on his bedroom wall, which Mandy calls "mom's best creative idea."
• Kathryn offers a design tip from the 70s: high-gloss white walls with natural wood floors catch candlelight beautifully (16:49).

4. Home Chaos Stories

• [12:56] Gideon recalls visiting a messy home where a telephone number was spray-painted on the wall—demonstrating creative (if unconventional) ways people “decorate.”

5. Embracing Failure

• [20:04] Listener Heather shares her perspective: “None of those failures are failures, they've shaped me into who I am.”
• Kathryn and the family discuss Samuel Beckett’s “Fail again, fail better.”

“Try again, fail again, fail better.” — Kathryn & Gideon (21:09)

• They reflect that failure can be a privilege, especially in creative work, and isn't always as forgiving for people in other circumstances or marginalized communities (21:32).

Quotes:

“Every time you fail. It's a real gift. Just say thank you, Jesus.”
— Mandy (21:25)

"You don't learn anything from your successes...but your difficult things...they teach you everything you're ever gonna know."
— Mandy (32:00)

• Stories are shared about childhood camp experiences and family support through hardships.

6. Handling Hard Things

• [27:47] Listener Ciara’s advice: “Hard never gets better. Our challenges in life are never going to get easier. We just learn to handle them better.”
• The hosts reflect that aging or experience doesn’t shield one from difficulty, but gives better coping tools.

Quotes:

“I really love that idea of hard doesn’t disappear. You just handle hard better.”
— Kathryn (29:07)

• Mandy brings up the importance of “tools and phrases from wise people,” and shares his habit of writing these down to keep in his wallet (31:56).

• The family discusses learning new roles as grandparents and in-laws, and the ongoing learning curve of setting boundaries (33:16).

• Suleika Jaouad’s advice is quoted:

  "Live every day as though it was your first." (34:17)
  — a twist on the usual "live every day as if it's your last," encouraging childlike wonder.

• Kathryn recalls the Sandy Hook parent who responded to "I can't imagine" with "Imagine" at an anti-gun violence rally, urging empathy and awareness (31:07).

7. Dog Treat Taste Test & Humorous Antics

• [18:44] The ongoing saga of their dog Becky getting distracted is interrupted by a debate:

  • Has anyone tasted the dog treats?
  • Gideon tastes one (at the very end), shocking his parents:

    "It tastes like a dog...That could probably cause brain illness."
    — Gideon & Kathryn (36:35–36:48)

• Light chaos ensues with the dog treat taste test as Kathryn protests and Mandy jokes.

8. Wrap-up and Card Trick

• [35:12] The episode ends with Gideon's attempt at a radio card trick, plenty of banter, and a heartfelt invitation to listeners to send in more stories, advice, or questions.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Home Decoration:

  "It's nice to just not just fill up your walls immediately..." — Kathryn (07:51)

• On Failure:

  “Try again, fail again, fail better.” — Beckett quote recited by Kathryn and Gideon (21:09)

  "Every time you fail. It's a real gift. Just say thank you, Jesus." — Mandy (21:25)

• On Handling Hard:

  "Hard never gets better. Our challenges ... never get easier. We just learn to handle them better." — Ciara (28:17)

  "You don't recover from losing a child ... you get on with it the best you can." — Mandy (30:17)

• On Living Each Day:

  "Live every day as though it's your first." — Suleika (quoted by Gideon) (34:33)

• On Family Transparency:

  “I really loved being in a household where I was welcome to do that.” — Gideon on talking about sex openly in the family (16:23)

• On Taste Testing Dog Treats:

  "It tastes like a dog...That could probably cause brain illness." — Gideon, Kathryn (36:35–36:48)

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Episode Timeline & Timestamps

• 00:46 – Introduction of “casual cool Mandy”; family banter
• 03:11 – Pop culture, empathy for Miley Cyrus
• 06:01 – Listener question: home decorations and first items hung
• 12:56 – Story about the spray-painted phone number
• 14:03 – Gideon’s childhood mural
• 20:04 – Heather’s advice on failure
• 21:09 – Beckett’s “Fail again, fail better”
• 27:47 – Ciara’s advice: learning to handle hard things better
• 31:07 – Kathryn recounts Sandy Hook "Imagine" moment
• 34:33 – “Live every day as though it's your first” (Suleika Jaouad's advice)
• 35:12 – Gideon's “radio card trick”
• 36:35 – Gideon tastes a dog treat to Kathryn's horror

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Final Thoughts

The heart of this episode is about embracing life's challenges—whether that’s picking your first wall art, redefining failure, or learning to “handle hard better.” It’s full of warmth, practical wisdom, and the type of offbeat humor that could only come from years of deep family connection.

Listeners walk away with a sense that wisdom comes not from having all the answers, but from being willing to question, laugh, and grow—often together.

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For more questions, stories, or advice, listeners are encouraged to write in or leave voicemails.

Transcript

[Kathryn Grody]

Foreignada.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You can hear every episode of Don't Listen to Us ad free with Lemonada Premium. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com. i wonder if the next time something comes up or some topic and it can come from anywhere because you guys make connections too, in your mind where you're feeling. It's an intense thing. I wonder if you'd like to act.

[Mandy Patinkin]

As an acting.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes. I'd like to invite you into a role I call casual cool Mandy. Where you see. See if you can share some piece of whatever thought you're having as a different person who was born with a condition where they can't really get intense and they're just like calm and casual just to see if that's a mode you can find. And then click into if you're feeling something is bubbling up for you. Oh, you're doing it right now. Yeah, Just being cool. Cool, relaxed Mandy. Is he also silent?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I was channeling Harpo Marx.

[Becky (dog)]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Gotcha.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hey.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So glad you joined us.

[Kathryn Grody]

Mellow.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hey.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's really, it's really nice.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Did you guys do anything notable this morning or. No non notable.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Nothing.

[Kathryn Grody]

No, I, I, I told you, I told you what I did. I had a, A bottle nipple panic.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

A bottle nipple panic?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. I couldn't get. I tried a million times and it didn't occur to me.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, feeding the grandchild. Yeah. You couldn't figure out how to get the nipple.

[Kathryn Grody]

Get the nipple into the right.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You called me hysterical.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I had to drive over and just show you wrong size nipple.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yep. But then I got the baby to sleep, so that was.

[Mandy Patinkin]

My nipples are getting bigger. I think it's one of the special things that happen. Yeah, I think they are. I think it's one of the fun things that happen to older men.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think maybe older everyone. Do you measure them? Do you like, do kind of a monthly nipple measurement? No, I do.

[Kathryn Grody]

You do? Honey. See, that's something new. That's something new. I had no idea about that. And then I just learned that. Wow.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, man. I do.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Hey, dad, it's not an invitation always be cool, man. It's when you feel something intensity is bubbling up.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You were sending the invitation.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, no, no. You can always be cool comment.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's great.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Should he have a different name?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mendy.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, no. Hey, Harry. Hey.

[Kathryn Grody]

Just.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hey. Hey.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, that's.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Let me ask You a question? How. How interested are you guys in pop culture these days? Do you feel.

[Kathryn Grody]

I. I don't know if I'm interested or not because I. I know so little.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Give us a test again. I've been through this before. That's the only way I can know if I have any.

[Kathryn Grody]

I really.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm not. I'm not sure what pop culture is.

[Kathryn Grody]

It's contemporary.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. What would you say is pop culture if you had to describe whatever.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Whatever fruit is in season in the.

[Kathryn Grody]

Is Taylor. Is. Is Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish still very much predominant or are they sort of fading?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, they're. They're very large people. You recently had an experience with Miley Cyrus, right? You had some different new feelings after listening to an interview with her.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, I didn't even recognize her. I saw her on an interview and my previous bias about her shifted. I had a little. I. You know, I always had empathy. I have empathy for any baby that is thrown out into that media world. I think it's a hell realm. I really discourage anybody from putting their kid through that. But it seems like she's done a lot of work on herself and became a grown up.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Becky.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Becky, come here.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Come back.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Come.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You're doing a podcast, Becky.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's all right. Leave her alone. She'll go sit in a cold floor.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

This is her job right here. Becky, no liver treats if you don't come back to your podcast. She's coming back.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Look at that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

She thought about it. She thought I could go to the other side of the house.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. Make my favorite chair. That was my chair.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Good.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Right?

[Kathryn Grody]

Choice. I don't like being in it anymore. Makes me smell like wet dog.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So Becky just got off her. Her little chair. She's right behind my mom and dad, so she's part of the podcast. You could see her on YouTube if you're into that kind of thing. No. Then she. She had an idea to walk to the other side of the house, but we reminded her what the family is doing right now, and she came back to be as bored as she always is, waiting for dad to be done.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thank you, Becky.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Can they see Becky in between us?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, some people can. Can they see Becky?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Can you see Ryan?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Sort of. We just know she's there. Can see her. All right, we're gonna go on to a listener question today. First listener question is from Benjamin, our cousin.

[Kathryn Grody]

No, there's other Benjamins, maybe in the world.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Benjamin Button is my favorite.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, yeah, I know.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's not to disparage this Benjamin.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

He might have that same Benjamin Button.

[Kathryn Grody]

And I think we should go back to watching all our old favorites.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

This one requires a little bit of time travel. And this came in from Benjamin.

[Mandy Patinkin]

He's coming from another time.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

He said hello. Mandy and Catherine, greetings from Minneapolis, Minnesota. You listed Triumphs as one of the topics to send in for the new podcast. While my husband Tony and I just purchased our first home. Cue the celebratory sound effects. We're staring at a bunch of blank walls. My question to you is, what do you remember being one of the first things you hung up as young homeowners to adorn your walls? Cheers. Benjamin, who also calls himself handsome homeowner. Do you guys remember some of the first things you hung up?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, I remember wedding photos. Of course, they were on the hall wall. But also I remember we got this great wooden antique toy cubby, and dad had all these little antique toys he'd collected. Do you remember that at all? And so we hung that up, and I thought it looked very cool. And I hung up a picture, beautiful photograph of Dorie hall that I loved, and dad did not. That was one of our.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How long did that stay up?

[Kathryn Grody]

I think I got it up for a while, but then he just did not like it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Becky has abandoned us.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, she doesn't like the conversation. I think, also, it's nice to just. You're very big on negative space, honey, and not filling it all up at once. So just. You've got a new home. Oh, boy. It's a problem today that we haven't had before.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'll let her. I'll let her out. And until she starts to come back in.

[Kathryn Grody]

It'S nice to just not just fill up your walls immediately. Just enjoy that. You're gonna make this home together and see what happens.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

There's not a lot of negative space around here.

[Kathryn Grody]

No, but there's more than there used to be. We used to. Where?

[Mandy Patinkin]

What?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Can you point to a spot on.

[Kathryn Grody]

The way up the stairs that used to be completely filled with everything that happened?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And you had my bar mitzvah invitation hanging on the wall.

[Kathryn Grody]

I still didn't have that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Why does that need to be on the line?

[Kathryn Grody]

Because I think that's really nice. It's a pivotal moment for the whole family, and it's beautiful.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Sort of embarrassing.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, it's an example of a family spending.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think it's an example of a family spending too much money on a bar mitzvah invitation. It's very ornate.

[Kathryn Grody]

Okay. A friend of mine helped Me do that invitation. It was very nice at the time. People had a wonderful time. Anyway, Benjamin, you and Tony should just enjoy looking for things that appeal to you both or enjoy the idea of all that's going to fill up on those walls.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Benjamin, I'm so glad you called. Thanks for your question.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God. This is him being.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Just so you're clear, I have no problem with you being an intense guy. That's. Everybody loves Mandy.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Is that someone else who made that suggestion?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm saying occasionally you are feeling overwhelmed by the intensity that's coming up.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm overwhelmed.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's when the invitation.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm overwhelmed currently. Great.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So you're plugging into.

[Mandy Patinkin]

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[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I don't know if anybody has ever said bubble wrap so intensely.

[Kathryn Grody]

Bubble wrap. And I've been telling dad about this for years, like not drinking out of plastic bottles. But now that Ridwell, they also pick it right up.

[Mandy Patinkin]

They'll pick it up at your doorstep, too.

[Kathryn Grody]

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[Mandy Patinkin]

You know what, honey? I want us to talk about Ridwell more often because I've never seen you so excited about a product or anything for that matter.

[Kathryn Grody]

You know, I just realized the name.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It makes you happier.

[Kathryn Grody]

Ridwell. That's very clever.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes.

[Kathryn Grody]

You know, anyway, you can figure that out. I did.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

To give the gift of Ridwell, just head to ridwell.com don't listen gift. It's super easy, really. You can get a digital link to share instantly, or if you know their address, have a kit mailed straight to your friends and family. And if you're not using Ridwell yet, treat yourself to one, too. Maybe that free third one. So visit ridwell.com don'tlisten gift. Let them know you heard about Ridwell from this podcast, and I'm really happy to share Ridwell with you. But do you remember. Do you remember ever hanging up anything? Picture or what?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, that was not your.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I don't. I don't. I like. No, I don't like empty walls.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Your office has a bunch of stuff. Is that your choice or does mom decorate your office in the city?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I like Mom's way of decorating a house. It's very personal.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, it was very funny. When Mandy first came into my apartment, the first thing he said was, oh, it's so personal. And I was like, yeah, it's my home. What else should it be? I mean, it was so strange a thought.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You know, we don't. We can't talk to Benjamin. Right. It's just what he wrote.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. I mean, you can talk to him right now. He just won't talk back because he's not. Yeah. Those are like.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Like a dog. Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Should I give him a treat? No.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You know, that reminds me of home walls. I once was entered a woman's home that was in such chaos. They were very messy people. Not like old hoarders, but young. Young messy people. And she offered us a glass of water. And then she couldn't find any glasses that were clean or that she could clean because they were all crusted over. And on the wall, this big white wall. I'm just remembering. And there was a giant phone number spray painted on the wall. And I said, what's. What's going on with this? And she said, well, somebody called for my roommate. And I couldn't. I couldn't find a pen and paper, but I found a spray can. So they left their number, and that's how I thought to do it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's right in line with something I was remembering. My favorite thing on any wall was in your bedroom. When mom suggested that you take that wall.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And draw or put anything you wanted on it. That was your wall. And it became this tapestry that we took photographs of. But we couldn't take it with us because it was on the plaster.

[Kathryn Grody]

Honey, you were in.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Where are those photographs?

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, God, somewhere. And probably printed out of one of.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

My childhood room when I was growing up.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, it painted. You don't remember the. That get that you painted. You painted a whole tapestry. Friends to paint it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I thought it was mom's best creative idea that maybe she ever gave.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, that was in response to Gideon. You initially wanted to paint that room black, and I said no.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah. So I remember that.

[Kathryn Grody]

You thought black and silver would be cool. And I said, no, black.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That would have been cool.

[Kathryn Grody]

So you had a silver ceiling and then that green wall, and then you said, can you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Which reminds me, I know it has nothing to do with Benjamin's question about the walls, but it does have to do with walls.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You and I were in the adjoining wall in my studio, which it was the wall that adjoined Gideon's wall of his bedroom.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And we were sitting on the couch facing that wall.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And our older son Isaac was with us in the room, and we heard something. And what did Isaac say to you?

[Kathryn Grody]

Do I really have to say this?

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's about walls. Yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And Mandy's understanding it is relevant.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God. Well, it can be cut out. I hope you're all not.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Why did it be cut out? I don't even know what the story is.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, the story was we were on the 15th floor. We couldn't understand what the sound was because it sounded like a tree coming.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It wasn't from the roof.

[Kathryn Grody]

And Isaac was with us. And we said, what is that sound? And he listened for a minute, put him appropriately. And he said, oh, that's the sound of your son, your youngest son, fucking his brains out. That's what you said. And that's the kind of family we were. Oh, okay. But we didn't have a liquor cabinet, so nobody could empty that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So what does that have to do with.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, I thought. Didn't le ask us once, like, can you leave the kids alone in the house or something?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, I just want to say I really loved being in a household where I was welcome to do that.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, I think, as all people of a age should have the freedom.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, I love hearing that. There's something positive of our upbringing with you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Honey, watch your pen clicking and tapping. Oh, that's. You start talking about your children fucking their brains out. You start clicking and tapping the pens nervously. Oh, right. I do remember that. Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, you know what?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Else didn't happen just once either.

[Kathryn Grody]

This is a strange thing, Tony. You know, we Were. We were friends. We were friends with a very amazing architect. And at the time. In the 70s. In the 70s, we ended up painting all our walls high gloss white. And we kept the wooden floors just natural. I really miss that. It picked up the light gorgeously. And I was recently visiting another friend who's a phenomenal architect, and he has, you know, glossy walls. They're satin, though. They're not high gloss. They're mid. So just another idea. If you just want your walls to speak for themselves and it's gorgeous with candlelight and things, it's really a great. If I live long enough to repaint the apartment. Yeah, yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mandy is getting the bucket of liver treats for Becky to entice her. Oh, that'll do it. To entice her back.

[Kathryn Grody]

It's funny. We've done 10 and not had any trouble, but on the 11th, no trouble.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah. Okay, get on it. Get up there. There you go. I'm gonna give her the whole bucket.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, no.

[Kathryn Grody]

Do you have the yellow? Do you have her tag on her? The yellow thing?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Got this bucket of treats.

[Mandy Patinkin]

She's taking some more out, and I'm just leaving them right here.

[Kathryn Grody]

Becky, see and don't do it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And then if somebody.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

She's gonna jump up on the table.

[Mandy Patinkin]

If somebody's good, they're gonna get all the liberty.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

If anybody wants to see Becky, check out our video of this podcast. We have it on YouTube.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Also, I know that they're gonna be advertisers that join us. I just like to say a word about Stewart's liver. Beef liver treats. That's a word.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Our next.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Have you ever tasted one of these?

[Kathryn Grody]

No.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Why?

[Kathryn Grody]

Because I'm not going to.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Have you ever tasted any of the dog food or the loose.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I have tasted. Yeah. Anything we've ever given our dogs, I've tasted.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Honest to God. Yeah, I've tasted horse treats, and I have never tasted.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Why don't you taste? Why don't you taste a little bit?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I don't want to.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Dad, it's beef liver. You like beef liver?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I like calf's liver. Done the French way that they do it at Orso's.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

These treats are prepared in a French style.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, they're not.

[Kathryn Grody]

They all moving right along. Please. I don't even want the dog to eat that food.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Dad, I really think it's important.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Can't have just one.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I really think it's important. He's pretending to eat the beef liver treats right now. I think it's important to our listeners that you eat one of those treats.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I do, too. What a great idea. Thanks, kid.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Becky. Nope. Nope.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay. Well, it took took 10 episodes for Becky to show her Becky. Now she's under the table, which is where she, total disaster, got tangled in wires.

[Kathryn Grody]

Do you have a yellow disc on her?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Honey, I don't want to do the yellow disc.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay, our next listener question is an email that comes from Heather and Mandy. Would you give this a read for us?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Every time I think I've failed at something I haven't, none of those failures are failures. They've shaped me into who I am today. Did she write this or I wrote this?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Heather wrote this.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And would I change me? No. Unequivocally, no. I think more people could stand to view failures as experiences instead. I'll give that a better read. I think more people could stand to view failures as experiences instead. It's not bad to fail to allow it to shape you and mold you into the best version of yourself. How could that be failing? All best. And good luck with the podcast, Heather. Well, I couldn't agree more. I love that idea. And I think. What's your favorite line about Beckett? Fail, fail.

[Kathryn Grody]

Kid, will you say it, please, so I don't put you in?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, mom always says, fail, fail again, fail better. But the actual quote is, try again, fail again, fail better.

[Kathryn Grody]

Try again, fail again, fail better.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Beckett.

[Kathryn Grody]

I think, Heather, that is. It's great that you really embrace that idea. I think it's really hard for people to embrace that idea. I don't think this culture, country, the world, sees the value of that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I've said it before. Fail. Every time you fail. It's a real gift. Just say thank you, Jesus.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes. Just.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. And I think it's also, like, a huge privilege to be in a place where you're allowed to fail and allowed to recover. Like, we, you know, we get in our line of work, the creative line of work, you know, as white people, often we have permission to fail and fail again and get to recover. Whereas people who have certain kinds of jobs or black and brown people in this country feel like there's less chance to fail and recover.

[Kathryn Grody]

I do think for anybody in any kind of educational system setting, this is something it would be great to imply to students, and it would be great to share more often.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I also think we do that in the theater, too. It's an interesting idea because I think part of what we love about live theater and live performance is the feeling in the sense that a huge failure could occur at any moment. And if you have seen a bunch of live things. You might have seen somebody forget their lines or a set piece fall or an instrument break. And then you're getting to witness that performer recover and climb out of that hole. And I think that's something that you don't get in recorded things. So I think a little part of us as audience members are always hoping for some disaster because we get to see people climb out of those failures.

[Kathryn Grody]

I remember one of my favorite things when dad did his very first solo show. Didn't know if it was gonna work or right. And he said to me on the way down to the Public Theater, I'm not gonna say anything. I said, well, who expects you to say anything? You'll just sing. Then he never stopped talking about it. And the next day, his very big deal agent, a very beloved guy named Sam Cohen, called up. And dad was too scared to talk to Sam, so he gave the phone to me, and Sam said, it's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. But he can't belch after a love song. He just can't do that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Why? Because he belched before?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, he belched after a certain love. So a whole recitation on burping. So Sam said, that's just not going to work. He has to have a set pattern. And I said, sam, your client works without a net. That's the whole point. That's the point of what makes him exciting. And working without a net means you might look like you're going to fall off, you might halfway fall off, or you might break a leg, hopefully not a neck. That is the point. Mandy Patinkin is never going to have set pattern. That is just not going to be his thing.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, this whole podcast has been scripted so far.

[Kathryn Grody]

That's right. Get another writer, please. Starting yesterday.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Was there a moment when I was a kid that I felt I'd failed at something that you guys remember talking me out of or supporting me through?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It was Isaac at camp when he wanted to come home, and. And we didn't want.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I wanted to come home from Killally.

[Kathryn Grody]

No, you didn't want.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Isaac wanted to come home. We were in California doing something, and he went to a camp in. In that little island.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, Catalina.

[Mandy Patinkin]

In Catalina. And he wanted to come home. Did he come home or not? No, we didn't want him to. We thought it was.

[Kathryn Grody]

We thought it was good for him to be there. And he said all the kids looked like they were 7 and 8, and it was ridiculous.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Did he stay or not?

[Kathryn Grody]

We made him Stay. And then we went on visiting day, and we really thought he was right. It was ridiculous.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But he recovered, right?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes, he recovered. But, kid, you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I had. I had a memory of 11 when I went to a camp, and I really wanted to go home. Maybe I didn't call you guys yet, but I remember an older. An older camper. Zach Greenblatt.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Talk to me on a bench.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, yeah, I think I met him.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Talk.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And I was like, that was amazing. It was like, really? He really totally changed you.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What other. Was there something I failed at that I felt so bad that you guys consoled me for. I feel like there must have been.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, that time in 2025 when you wanted to do a podcast.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I wanted to do a podcast. Did I want to do the podcast? Did I bring this podcast idea to you?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Is that what happened?

[Kathryn Grody]

No.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, that's not what happened. I was going about my business, living my life. Hey, Gideon, Debbie and Katrina brought this interesting podcast I did to us. We don't think we probably will do it, but.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, I didn't want to fail alone.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What do you think?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I wanted to fail better with you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Could this be fun for us? Sure, dad. Let me take a look at it. A year later.

[Kathryn Grody]

Here we are.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Here we are. Most wonderful team ever. Do you guys feel you get more or less afraid of failure as you get older?

[Kathryn Grody]

I think I'm a little more afraid of it right now than I've ever been.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Because you got this play coming up?

[Kathryn Grody]

Because I've got this play coming up that I was very confident about. I'm a little insecure about it right now, and it's a combination of my physicality and how. What shape I feel and memorization with my brain and the horrible habit I have of getting into bed with all my magazines and articles and books and then scrolling with that stupid phone, which I am going to put in another room.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You just keep saying that.

[Kathryn Grody]

I know I keep saying it. I don't. Because I'm really addicted.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Dad, what advice do you give mom when she's having anxiety about her upcoming show?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Embrace it. It's a good thing. I'd worry about you if you weren't having anxiety. That's how you get there. When you get out there on the deck, it'll all go away.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think that's tr. This next one is a voice note, so if you guys want to put your headphones in. This is a voice note from Ciara, and it's not exactly a question, but Ciara is Sharing advice that's worked for her.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Shiara. Howdy.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Ciara.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh that's a nice name. Say that again. It's, it's a, she's asking, she's, she's.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Sharing advice that has worked for her.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh great.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And by the way everyone send us more of your best and worst advice.

[Kathryn Grody]

Clearly we need advice.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We'd love to hear it but we also like hearing terrible advice that you were given and you knew wasn't good. That's also a great category.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, that's right.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Let's take a listen to Ciara.

[Becky (dog)]

Hi Mandy and Katherine, this is Ciara and I have some advice that I got from my therapist that I would love to share with everyone because it's helped me grow as a person and, and face challenges in my life more efficiently. My therapist told me that hard never gets better. Like our challenges in life are never going to get easier. We just learn to handle them better. We learn to handle hard better and that opened something in me and I now face challenges in my life with a better approach and I want to help other people and with their challenges and offer them this advice.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thank you. Sierra. Mom, dad, this idea that challenges never get easier, we just learn to handle them better, does that resonate for you?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, very much. I mean I really love that idea of hard doesn't disappear. You just handle hard better. Yeah, I think that's the whole point. I mean in a 24 hour period you're going to have glory, joy and horrificness possibly if you're open human being. And I, I do think the illusion that hard goes totally away as you get older, you know, or that you find the secret to hard things and therefore nothing is difficult is really a delusion. So I do love that idea that you learn to handle hard better, you get different tools and I think that's so generous of Ciara to share that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And I think that's if you're lucky you get better tools. I mean for some people hard gets harder. You know, it's not, it's not the same for everyone. It's like how do, how do you get tools and keep using them so that hard doesn't get easier but you have better tools?

[Kathryn Grody]

I mean, I'm good. There are huge tragedies that happen and people, there's no fixing it, there's no making it better.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You don't recover from losing a child.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Right.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Can't expect to see you either lock yourself in a closet for the rest of your life or you get on with it the best you can because you don't get a loved one back. None of us do.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Losing a child, losing an uncle, any brother. That's right.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You don't get mom, dad, you don't get them back.

[Kathryn Grody]

I will never forget being in a line where we were working against trying to prevent friggin gun violence, which clearly we failed at. And the people, the parents from Sandy Hook were there. And a person in front of me. Did I already say this on a podcast? A person in front of me said to the mother of Dylan, I don't remember her name, but I remember she said, I can't imagine. And the mother looked at her and said, imagine.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I can't imagine. She said, imagine, imagine.

[Kathryn Grody]

And I just was like overwhelmed. I thought I was so grateful I hadn't said that. But it's like, yeah, you know, imagine. And so we all imagine. And it doesn't change anything. It doesn't mean we stop fighting for it. But I, I do think that it's great that, that it's great in any therapeutic situation when something is said that really gives somebody a whole different way of handling whatever comes to them.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

I mean, does it mean that there are people in circumstances that have no option for heart?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do you feel you've been building like tools over the years that help you handle hard things better? Or do you feel like you're changing what tools you use? Or do they just kind of amass?

[Mandy Patinkin]

And there's I get tools phrases from wise people. I write down. Put them in my wallet.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You know, put them in my brain. Things like, dear friend of mine, I share them. Sometimes I'll say them, I'll say them again. One of the big ones is, if you're not going to risk something, don't bother getting up today. You know, it's, that's how it is. And I think the corny ones is you don't learn anything from your successes. As Gene Kelly said, pat you on your back, send you on your way. That's all they do, give you the award. But your difficult things, you tear them inside out, upside down, you tear them apart. They teach you everything you're ever gonna know. And if you take those moments that were hard and you thought, like, I'll never get through this, and you take those out of your life, out of your lifeline, you won't know who you are today. There's certain, there's the number one gift you get.

[Kathryn Grody]

There are certain areas that I no longer worry about, like auditions or going up for plays or movies or the comp will I get this job or I'm just not. I just do my own work and it satisfies me. There's a whole new landscape that's new to me that I feel I need to do a lot of work on to learn. Being a mother in law, being a grandparent. You know how to respect the boundaries between the difference of those things.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes. How you doing with that?

[Kathryn Grody]

Boundaries that well. But I'm getting better at it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You remind me.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm aware of it. We have different definitions of it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And Sierra just reminded me of a friend that I would love us a friend of yours, Gid, that I met and we know her. I would love her to be a part of this podcast one day. Now I just lost the name.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You love her so much.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Suleika. I knew that I would love Suleika to be here because what was the thing she recently just said to Colbert about the day?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, remember that line?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Suleka was diagnosed with cancer when she was in her early 20s. And at some point in her fight with cancer, a doctor told her to live every day as though it was her last. She said, basically, I came to think, thanks, but no thanks. Fuck that. And she's choosing to live every day as though it's her first sort of childlike wonder and possibilities.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And that's right in line with Uncle Mike's Buddhist philosophy. Be in this moment, don't be in the past. Don't look toward the future. Be here right now, right this second or you'll miss it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

I mean, that's such a fabulous thing that she shared.

[Mandy Patinkin]

She shared that. Yes, because say it again.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Live every day like it's your first.

[Kathryn Grody]

Instead of it's your last. That is just a whole different.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I mean, talk about tools in the toolbox.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. Talk about tools in the toolbox. Thank you, Suleika. That has really.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And thank you, Sierra, for reminding us of that.

[Kathryn Grody]

That's right.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We need to wrap things up this week, but before we go, I've been working on something that I'm really proud of. It's a new card trick. You guys ready? Watch this. Is that card?

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, that's a joke.

[Kathryn Grody]

This is.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Hey, that's what he's looking for, the king of hearts. I just threw a bunch of cards at Manny and Catherine and she got.

[Kathryn Grody]

The one I've been my favorite, which.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Is not easy to do, folks.

[Kathryn Grody]

That's not the card I chose.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I didn't choose king of spades.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

All right, well, thanks for tuning in. You can come back for more radio card tricks. Anytime. Or please send in the audio recordings of your card tricks for the radio.

[Kathryn Grody]

Nothing like an audio card trick and.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We'D love to hear from you. You can call or write in with more questions, stories, good advice, bad advice you've been given. Playful, weird, fun stuff. DIY home projects. Anything in the mix said something you disagree with? Be curious to hear what it was. You can send an email to ask mandyandcatherinemail.com check out our socials for an easy way to send us a voice note. Thank you so much for being here and tuning in and don't listen to us. Don't listen to us.

[Kathryn Grody]

Really? Seriously.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And this, this, I, you know, this dog treat, I think.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, no, Gideon, do not do that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Nobody can even see you.

[Kathryn Grody]

But oh my God, he did it. I just can't believe. That is so gross. That's really dangerous. Please take that out of your mouth right now.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's exactly what you.

[Kathryn Grody]

Spit this out.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Please.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, I'm committed.

[Kathryn Grody]

Please. That's so bad for you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It tastes like a dog.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God. That could probably cause brain illness. Well, just take that out.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay. That's so gross. Anything for our listeners. That's so horrible. It's really bad.

[Kathryn Grody]

Wow. Gideon, here. Get that out of your freaking mouth right this second.

[Mandy Patinkin]

How's that going to hurt him?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's really what you think it tastes like?

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't Listen to us. Is a Lemonada Media original hosted by Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Created by Katrina Onstad, Debbie Pacheco and Gideon Grody Padinkin. Executive producers are Kathryn Grody, Gideon Grody Padinkin, Mandy Bodinkin, Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles Wax. Our engineer is Ryan Derringer of Welterweight Sound. Video and audio production by Mark Whiteway of Bellows Media. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Media Premium yet, now's the perfect time. You can hear don't listen to us completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like behind the scenes conversations, questions so weird they didn't make it on air, Becky the dog shenanigans and more. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple podcasts. Head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.com. don't miss out.