Why We’re All Addicted to Our Phones

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Don’t Listen To Us — “Why We’re All Addicted to Our Phones”
Lemonada Media | June 3, 2026
Hosts: Gideon Grody Patinkin, Kathryn Grody
Guest: Ivan Cash
Main Theme: Finding balance and sanity in a hyperconnected world, understanding technology’s grasp on us, and offering practical and compassionate advice for digital overwhelm (with a dose of social obligation evasion tips).

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Episode Overview

This episode trades its usual trio for a duo, with Gideon taking the hosting reins while Mandy Patinkin is away. Alongside Kathryn, they welcome artist and technology critic Ivan Cash for an exploration into our collective phone addiction. The conversation grounds itself in the real anxiety many (especially younger people) feel around staying informed and involved while not being consumed by bleak news cycles and screens.

Listener voices, frank discussion of personal habits, and relatable experiments anchor the advice. The show balances humor, vulnerability, and practical suggestions while acknowledging just how rigged our digital environments truly are.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Pop Culture Warm-Up: Generational Gaps (03:01–05:00)

• Gideon quizzes Kathryn on Gen Z lexicon: “main character syndrome,” “girl dinner,” and Travis Kelce dating rumors.
• Kathryn’s (mis)guesses reflect both the generational divide and her openness:
  • “Main character syndrome? Is that another word for narcissism?” (03:25, Kathryn)
  • On girl dinner: “I thought it meant going out with the girls.” (04:46, Kathryn)
• Sets a relaxed, humorous tone before delving into deeper territory.

2. Introducing Ivan Cash: The “Creative Troublemaker” (05:03–06:38)

• Gideon frames Ivan as “obsessed with how we use and overuse our screens.”
• Ivan’s work includes public art and “no phone” campaigns that highlight technology’s place in our lives.

3. Listener Question: Coping with Doomscrolling and Staying Informed (06:38–09:39)

• Voice Note from Lily (17): She struggles to stay involved in the world without being mentally overwhelmed by negative news.
• Kathryn assures her, “You’re not alone, Lily. You’ve got great company.” (07:48)
• Kathryn advocates for in-person community action: “Joy and hope are acts of resistance in these dark times.” (08:05)
• Admits she avoids constant news: “I have not watched the news officially in three minutes. No, that is absolutely—my son does know me. I haven’t turned it on as a regular thing since January 6, 2020.” (08:29–08:36)

4. Ivan’s Compassionate Framework for Digital Boundaries (09:41–10:28)

• Ivan validates Lily’s experience: “This is one of the major reckonings that we all have to face. And I don’t think there’s a right or a wrong answer… It’s more about how you can create some sort of barrier or boundary that protects your time so that we’re not always… glued into the news.” (09:44–10:24)
• Emphasizes self-compassion and boundary-setting over guilt or perfection.

5. Healthy Habits & Social Reinforcement (10:28–13:20)

• Lily describes dancing as her offline outlet: “I’m a dancer, so I dance a lot during the summer to keep up, make sure I’m not losing all that I’ve gained.” (10:43)
• Discusses her first phone at age 11 (Android), with gradual migration to smartphones for safety, then entertainment.
• Lily and friends value in-person presence: “Luckily with a lot of my friends, it kind of goes with saying, right now I’m with you. I don’t want to sit on our phones together. I want to talk to you.” (12:50–13:14)
• Ivan compliments “baked-in etiquette”—not all is lost for Gen Z.

6. Playful (and Subversive) Interventions (13:20–14:36)

• Ivan’s public art: hung “No Phone” signs in San Francisco parks ("violators subject to $300 fine").
• Observed people responding by putting their phones away.
• Reframes tech boundaries as both creative and social experiments.

7. Concrete Tools: Rituals and Tech Hygiene (14:36–16:18)

• Ivan offers practical advice:
  • No phones in bed after 9 p.m.
  • Store phones outside the bedroom to avoid temptation.
  • “For someone in a studio apartment, it would mean just putting your phone on a dresser.”
• Kathryn and Lily share their struggles and intentions:
  • Kathryn: “I’m going to promise you, I am going to do this starting tonight. Inspired by you.” (16:48)
  • Group initiates a “pinky promise” to banish the phone from their nightstands.

8. Technology Meditation: Feeling the Phone’s Power (19:20–22:12)

• Ivan leads a mindful “phone meditation.” (19:20)
  • “Feel the weight. It fits in your hand in this almost perfect way. That’s not by accident.” (20:00, Ivan)
  • Invites them to turn on the phone, notice emotional and physical responses.
• Reactions:
  • Kathryn: “My breath accelerated in anxiety of, like, seeing if there’s some urgent text or some bad headline.” (21:33)
  • Lily: “It felt so familiar… made me want to scroll and start texting somebody.” (21:48)
• Ivan underscores the urge to immediately interact—evidence of deep design.

9. Targeted Action vs. Overwhelm (22:12–24:14)

• Kathryn tells the “starfish” parable: you can’t save everyone, but your actions matter to those you help (23:05–23:33).
  • “Just find one thing, one action, where people are doing good in your community.”
• Offers resources: “Jessica Craven does Chop Wood Carry Water. She tells you the good things that are happening… You can type in ‘good news’… and just listen to that.” (23:53)
• Ivan (joking): “If none of this works out, just throw your phone away and get a flip phone.” (24:14)

10. Solidarity, Support, and Ongoing Experiments (24:24–25:21)

• Group agrees to mutual accountability—Lily to report back, hosts to share progress with phone banishment.
• Kathryn to Lily: “You are fully human and you just stay practicing being the wonderful human you are… Have a wonderful senior year and you’ll be a great psychologist and keep dancing, Lily.” (24:48)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Modern Phone Addiction:

  • “Billions of dollars have gone into making us addicted, making you have a hard time to do what seems simple.” – Gideon (16:00)

• On Hope and Action:

  • “Joy and hope are acts of resistance in these dark times.” – Kathryn (08:05)
  • “It makes a difference to this one.” – Kathryn (paraphrasing the starfish story, 23:33)

• On Self-Compassion:

  • “First and foremost I would just offer you and any listeners compassion for the plight that is being a modern person on planet Earth.” – Ivan (09:44)

• On Physicality of the Phone:

  • “Feel the weight... it kind of fits in your hand in this, like, almost perfect way. That’s not by accident.” – Ivan (20:00)

• On Social Etiquette and Honesty:

  • “Why don’t you just say no, thanks? Why do you need an excuse to not do what you don’t want to do at this point?” – Kathryn (30:20)
  • “Philosophically, I would like to move towards a world where we can all just say thank you so much for that invitation. I don’t want to do that. Because it doesn’t sound good to me.” – Gideon (36:01)

• On Bodily Excuses:

  • “What about gallbladder? … Well you have stones, kidney stones. So you could say, I’m sorry, I’m trying to pass the stone.” – Katherine (31:46)
  • “Do you think if a man has a gigantic penis, it’s easier to pass kidney stones, because the holes are just, like, bigger proportionally?” – Gideon (32:08)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:01 Pop Culture Quiz — Gideon and Kathryn bridge the generational divide
• **05:03 Ivan Cash introduction & setup of the episode’s theme
• 06:38 Lily’s Voice Note & Conversation — Generation Z’s struggles with engagement and overwhelm
• 09:41 Ivan’s perspective on boundaries
• 14:36 Tech hygiene & bedtime rituals — phone bedroom ban
• 19:20 Technology meditation: tuning into our discomfort and urges
• 22:12 Starfish story: The power of one good deed
• 24:24 Group pact, mutual encouragement, Lily’s send-off
• 25:26 Ivan on working creatively with family
• 28:24 Listener “L” asks: is it okay to fake an injury to get out of social obligations?
• 29:39 Excuses brainstorm (gallbladders, stones, “shat my pants,” honesty, etc.)
• 36:01 Philosophical turn: just saying no instead

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Tone and Style

• Warm, self-deprecating, candid, and slightly chaotic—a conversation among family and friends with a balance of humor and earnest concern.
• Reassuring to young listeners and skeptical adults alike: “You’re not alone,” and “the problem is the phone, not your brain.”
• Institutionally skeptical (“don’t listen to us”), but full of genuine support for finding what works.

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For Those Who Haven’t Listened

This episode dives deep into why phone (and doomscrolling) addiction is so hard to shake, but also provides practical ways to regain control through social support, conscious ritual, humor, and self-forgiveness. It won’t “cure” your relationship to your phone, but it’s a comfort to know how universal the struggle really is—and how your small, real-life actions, whether in activism or friendship, do matter. And if all else fails: “Just throw your phone away and get a flip phone.”

If you need tactical advice or want to feel less alone, this is a must-listen.

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Contact:
[e-mail]

Not Listening is, ironically, recommended.

Transcript

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Foreign.

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

To us.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

is our take it or leave it advice show. Today is a wild day. I'm sitting in my dad's seat because he couldn't be with us today. But I'm Gideon Grody Patinkin.

[Katherine Grody]

I'm Katherine Grody, also known as Katherine

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Grody Patinkin and dad away on a task is Mandy. And before we get started today, I want to do a little pop culture quiz mom for our hang. All right, you ready?

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, I am. I'm gonna surprise you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay. What does main character syndrome mean?

[Katherine Grody]

Main character syndrome?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Katherine Grody]

Is that another word for narcissism? Is that somebody. Some generational way of saying that they always have to be referring to themselves as the main character? Yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's very good. Describe someone who behaves as if they are the protagonist of real life, as though everything revolves around them.

[Katherine Grody]

Well, it used to be called narcissism. Now it's called main character syndrome. That's fine with me. It means the same thing. Stay away.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Who has been linked romantically to super mega football guy Travis Kelsey.

[Katherine Grody]

Well, that I know.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You do know this.

[Katherine Grody]

Yes, I do know.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Is it Katy Perry, Beyonce, or Taylor Swift?

[Katherine Grody]

Beyonce.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mom, you are clued in.

[Katherine Grody]

Like, yeah, I'm so clued in because I.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay, here's what about. What is girl dinner?

[Katherine Grody]

Girl dinner is when all the female friends go out without their male partners.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's a very reasonable. It's a very reasonable guess. It actually refers to a casual snacky meal usually made up of small, mismatched items. No cooking. Think a plate of cheese, crackers, olives, pickles, grapes, a few chips, chocolate, and a glass of wine or a Diet Coke.

[Katherine Grody]

That girl dinner. So is that sort of a rebellion against the assumption that females have to cook something? I guess. Well, that's fine. I'd love to participate in that kind of a dinner since I hate to cook.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You're drawn towards girl dinner.

[Katherine Grody]

I'm drawn to girl dinner. I thought it meant going out with the girls.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I mean, it's what it meant. The description I have here is a casual snacky meal, but then it lists a lot of snacks, so you could get quite full, conceivably, on snacks.

[Katherine Grody]

I'm four girl dinners. I didn't know that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay, great.

[Podcast Announcer]

All right, let's get to the show.

[Katherine Grody]

Okay, here we go. I'm excited,

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mom. I am back in my usual place, and the chair next to me is empty. But not for long. Since we always say, don't listen to us, we thought today on this unusual day, we'd bring in a very special somebody who. Who we actually love listening to. Our dear friend Ivan Cash. Come on in.

[Katherine Grody]

Oh, yay. That's our special guest. This is actually a friend of yours and a friend of Isaac's, but actually

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

a Friend of mine too, and Mandy's

[Katherine Grody]

and Mandy's and everybody's.

[Ivan Cash]

And he's an all around real diplomat.

[Katherine Grody]

He's a real diplomat. He's a non generational bias person.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And in Becky's normal seat behind we've got Biscuit, little tiny adorable dog that we love. Let me just introduce Ivan to our listeners. Today's guest is our good family friend, Ivan Cash, an award winning artist and creative troublemaker who's obsessed with how we use and overuse our screens. His work has been featured in places like the New York Times and npr. And we're going to talk to him about how to stay present in a hyper connected world. And Ivan, we wanted to start off asking for your help with a live guest we're gonna bring in representing Gen Z. Let's take a listen to her voice note and then bring her in. We will be hearing from Lily.

[Lily]

Hi. You reached an audience in Minnesota, so that's pretty cool. But anyways, I wanted to ask you about how you managed to be so involved in current events and your community and like activist issues and such. I want to be, but even glimpsing at the news just brings me so much sadness hearing about the state of the world and all these terrible things happening. How do you manage a balance in being involved and not like hurting yourself mentally?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Hi, Lily. How are you doing today?

[Katherine Grody]

Good, how are you? Oh, wow. There you are. It's so nice. It's so nice.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thank you for your question.

[Lily]

Of course.

[Katherine Grody]

Lilia. Yeah, It's a great question and I'm so thrilled by it because I actually think I might have some advice to offer you that you might want to listen to.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Let me ask, just can you share with us how old you are?

[Lily]

I'm 17. Almost 18.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. This is something that I imagine you see your peers struggling with as well as every other person may be around

[Ivan Cash]

you on the planet.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

On the planet.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah. Yes. You're not alone, Lily. You've got great company. One of the things I just want to suggest, I think community and having people that are struggling like you are and also finding solutions about it makes you feel better than any headline scrolling or doom scrolling on your phone. And there are, you know, there's this thing about joy and hope being acts of resistance to these dark time. I want you to know I really, this is not an exaggeration. I have not watched the news officially in three minutes. No, that is absolutely. My son does know me. I haven't turned it on as a regular thing since January 6, 2020.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But you watch the news all the time on your phone. People send you things.

[Katherine Grody]

Wait a minute, who's speaking here? People do send me things. I sometimes see headlines, but what I do. There are several organizations, Lily, that tell you the good things that are happening, that where the resistance is working, what lawsuits are being won, what demonstrations it feels. I've gone to as many demonstrations as you can since this happened and it feels very good to be in a like minded crowd that is focusing on being human and not being cruel and fighting the illegality. Here you really do have agency. You just can't be overwhelmed by taking in everything. So I'm going to let Ivan suggest some things and then I'm going to tell you some specific places I think that might help you know where to put your action and where to find some hope and joy in this time. Mr. Cass?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. What's it bring up for you?

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Ivan Cash]

Hi, Lily.

[Katherine Grody]

Hi.

[Ivan Cash]

I think it's a very, very relatable question. And so I think first and foremost I would just offer you and any listeners compassion for the plight that is being a modern person on planet Earth. I think this is one of the, the major reckonings that we all have to face. And I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer. Sadly. I wish I could just give you a quick fix and sell you something for $5. That does it all. I think it's more about how can you and everyone create some sort of barrier or, or boundary that protects your time so that we're not always clued in or glued into the news.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Before we get to that, Lily, can you tell us just a little bit more about your life? What you love doing that isn't attached to a screen. What makes you happy these days?

[Lily]

Of course, these days I'm actually quite busy, which helps to keep me off my phone and off scrolling, which I think helps my mental health a lot. I'm a dancer, so I dance a lot during the summer to, you know, keep up, you know, make sure I'm not like losing all that I've gained.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What kind of dance?

[Lily]

I go to a studio that's not aligned to a specific style. So I learn tap, I learn ballet and jazz and hip hop. And while I'm not well versed in all of them, I think there's some that I would like to toot my own horn and say I'm good at.

[Katherine Grody]

I mean, that's fantastic that you already know. Even though you've grown up in a world that is so screen oriented and distracting. You've been able to focus on a passion that you have.

[Lily]

I try.

[Katherine Grody]

Well, that's great, Lily. It really bodes well for you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How old were you when you got your first smartphone?

[Lily]

That's a good question. I think it's when I turned 11 and it was an Android, so it doesn't have all the things a smartphone has. But I switched over to a smartphone because there was a lot of bugs happening or I would get calls or texts from people I didn't know that, like, were my mom thought was concerning to my safety. So I think 12 or 13 is when I got my first smartphone. And it was with the precedent that if you were ever in need of help, you were at a friend's house and you needed to call me. If you're in danger, you have the ability to call for help. And obviously as you grow older, that becomes, you know, a source of entertainment or just to doom scroll. But that's originally what I had a smartphone for.

[Katherine Grody]

Lily, do you have friends that have the same concerns? I mean, among your friend group, do you have any rules? Like when you go out together, you all turn off your phones for the next two hours and don't look at them and just be together, whether you're having a meal or going to a movie. Do you have any sort of friends that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Who'd be willing to do that with

[Katherine Grody]

you, to do that with you?

[Lily]

I definitely have someone be willing, but we've never set any rules. Like, I just want to be with you right now. And luckily with a lot of my friends, it kind of goes with saying, like, right now I'm with you. I don't want to just sit on our phones together. I want to talk to you. I want to make things with you, or I want to go out to eat with you.

[Katherine Grody]

So.

[Lily]

So I think it helps knowing that I have friends that have morals and values aligned with mine.

[Ivan Cash]

There's some baked in social etiquette there. That's great.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Can I just also say, part of why we're excited to bring in Ivan to this conversation is he's an amazing artist, creative director, filmmaker, and he's done tons of social experiments, community art projects that are all about people interacting with each other, people interacting with strangers, people in creative, playful ways and like getting out of our sort of fixed routines of how we interact with ourselves and each other, so.

[Ivan Cash]

Or using technology in non traditional ways that help us connect.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah. And I'll just tell you one of my favorite ones, Lily, is he made like very official signs, street signs that he hung on, like, posts throughout San Francisco and the park that were, like. They looked like no parking signs, but there were no phone signs. And it said. It was a picture of a phone with a circle and a cross through it. And it said, $300 fine for use.

[Ivan Cash]

Violators subject to $300 fine.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And then you'd see people walking through the park. They see the sign, they're on their phone, they see the sign, they put their phone away and they're looking around. So he's spent a lot of time in this soup from a creative place, and then, of course, deals with it in his own life.

[Ivan Cash]

Thanks, kid. I'm blushing. So I think that my personal goal is to maximize the space and time I have in my life where I'm not tapped in to tech to the Internet. And so I feel like going to bed and waking up in the morning are two places where I really try to extend and ritualize spaciousness. And for my wife and me, it looks like we have a no phone in the bed policy after 9pm you can make that earlier, you can make that later. That's been really helpful for us just to make sure that we're not encroaching into a place where we're just always on our phone. And then same thing in the morning, try to. Well, first of all, we sleep with our phone outside of the bedroom. For someone that's in a studio apartment, it would just mean putting your phone on a dresser rather than, like, I'm curious, where does your. If you don't mind answering, where do you put your phone when you go to bed?

[Lily]

I have no. And glad you mentioned that, because I've noticed, like, I will go to bed with my phone and I will not be able to fall asleep because I'm on my phone. And I wake up the next morning later because I go to bed so late and just realizing, Lily, like, you could easily change this. Why don't you just not put your phone on your nightstand right next to your bed where you can easily reach it and unfortunately be tempted instead, Just leave it outside and.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, Lily, just remember. It seems so easy. And just remember that you're not a piece of shit, because that's hard to do. Like, billions of dollars have gone into making us addicted, making you have a hard time to do what seems simple. But back to yeah, Ivan, wait.

[Katherine Grody]

I've been saying this. I've been saying that I'm gonna do this. Lily, I'm really scared. I go to bed with two books and some New Yorker magazines and my phone. I don't read the books, I don't read the magazines. I look at everything that I say I'm not gonna look at.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And then you go to bed feeling like an idiot.

[Katherine Grody]

And then I go to bed feeling like an idiot. I'm mad at myself, I'm worried about my brain. And I use my phone for my alarm clock. And I've been saying for months that I was not going to. I even have an old fashioned alarm clock that needs a battery. And. And Lily, I'm going to promise you, I am going to do this starting tonight. Inspired by you.

[Ivan Cash]

If you do it, maybe we can all make a pact.

[Katherine Grody]

We can all make a pack.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'll do that to Lily.

[Katherine Grody]

Remember, it's not our behavior. These devices are meant to addict us. That is what the founders did.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mom, if you're committing to this to

[Katherine Grody]

Lily,

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

promise me, children of America, we're

[Ivan Cash]

going to pinky promise.

[Katherine Grody]

We're doing it. We're doing it right here. This episode of Don't Listen to Us is brought to you by booking.com I've got to say, if you're looking to grow your vacation rental business, this is the place to be. Booking.com is one of the most downloaded travel apps in the world. And for good reason. Since 2010, they have helped over 1.8 billion vacation rental guest buying places to stay. That's billion with a B. But here's the thing. Most vacation rental hosts don't even realize they can list their rental properties on booking.com and if you're not on the platform, you can. Your rental is basically invisible to millions of Booking.com travelers worldwide. After all, they can't book what they can't see, right? But once you start listing on booking.com, your property gets seen by a massive global audience of unique travelers. That means more visibility, more bookings, and more opportunity to accelerate the growth of your rental business. And it couldn't be any easier. You can register your property in as little as 15 minutes, and nearly half of hosts get their first booking within a week. So if your vacation rental isn't listed on booking.com, it could be invisible to millions of travelers searching the platform. Don't miss out on consistent bookings and global reach. Head over to booking.com and start your listing today. Get seen, get booked on booking.com

[Ivan Cash]

I wanted to suggest technology meditation.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, yeah. I don't know if that's the phone exercise.

[Ivan Cash]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do you have your phone with you, Lily? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do it.

[Ivan Cash]

Can you do that? Do you have your phone, Catherine?

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Lily]

Go grab it along with your books and magazines.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You're plugged in, remember? Okay. Catherine's going to get her phone.

[Ivan Cash]

So here's my invitation is to actually, if we all just turn our phones off. Okay. Just for a little bit here.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Great.

[Ivan Cash]

Yeah. And this is something. I've led this at a number of workshops, and it has very interesting results.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Nice.

[Ivan Cash]

So I just like to remind us that it's an object. In addition to being something that connects us to the world, it's also just a physical object. And so just feel the weight of your phone again. Listeners at home, just feel the weight. The way that it kind of fits in our hand in this, like, almost, like, perfect way. That feels, for me, it feels really good. And I don't think that's by accident. I think that's, like, a lot of people have spent a lot of time making that to be the case. And so in a second, I'm gonna invite all of us and listeners to turn their phone on first. Very important. Let's all just put our. Make sure our feet are on the ground, okay. And just take a breath in. And the goal is to be in our body. And as a dancer, Lily, I'm sure you can access that. Just kind of tune into our bodies, our sit bones, if we're sitting, our feet on the ground, feel our jaw. And I'm going to give us, like, 30 seconds each to just on in our own. Turn on our phone. You can turn it on now and just feel how your body responds, reacts to that. And you might notice emotionally how something might change or maybe your breath is a little different.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, my breath accelerated in anxiety of, like, seeing if there's some urgent text or some desperate text or some bad headline, you know?

[Ivan Cash]

Yeah, I noticed my hands got a little sweaty. How about you, Lily?

[Lily]

It felt so familiar. Like, it made me want to scroll and then start texting somebody or seeing if someone did text me if there's an alert. It just feels all so familiar.

[Ivan Cash]

And the key to this is, like, spend a minute and don't do anything. Just hold it and feel that discomfort, the familiarity and the urge and desire to immediately interact.

[Katherine Grody]

Lily, I'm curious about something. I think it's very overwhelming when you know what is happening that is terrible everywhere and it kind of paralyzes you. But what has helped me is if I can choose one action, right? If it is a food kitchen, if it is an after daycare where you can volunteer and be great with kids. That need to interact maybe with dance or something else. If it is a climate change thing, whatever is local that you feel good about the people involved and choose that one thing. You know, you know the starfish story? I, I mean do you know that story Lily, about the starfish?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, you have to say what it is.

[Katherine Grody]

She doesn't know what story about.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do you know any starfish stories?

[Katherine Grody]

There's a starfish. It's kind of a cliche but I think it's actually, it's worthwhile. There's a little boy and there's all these starfish that have washed up on the beach and he's walking with his dad and he starts setting, saving them, throwing them back in the water and the dad says why are you bothering? You can't possibly save all these starfish. What difference does it make? And he picks up the starfish and he throws it into the water and he says it makes a difference to this one. Right?

[Lily]

I think, I think some like very that that specific starfish story variations of like.

[Katherine Grody]

But I think it feels very good. So what I just want to suggest is you find one thing where people are doing good in your community.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think that's great. The invitation is the invitation. It feels like you have to do everything all the time, just picking that one thing to start with.

[Katherine Grody]

And there are places on the Internet. Jessica Craven does chop wood, carry water. She tells you the good things that are happening. You can type in good news that is happening and just listen to that and don't listen to the doom scrolling this is period in history and the pendulum will hopefully swing in another direction.

[Ivan Cash]

And the last thing I'll say Lily, is if none of this works out, just throw your phone away and get a flip phone.

[Lily]

Yeah, honestly. Yeah, I might have to.

[Katherine Grody]

I'm thinking of it, Lily.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And Lily, will you check back in with us down the line and let us know if any of this works? Yeah, if any of this works. If you've made any progress, if things have gotten better, if your friends are trying out this with you and we will update you on our pinky promise. What did we even promise to do again?

[Katherine Grody]

We're not going to have our phones by the side of our heads.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We're going to put our phones away from bed so that we can sleep.

[Katherine Grody]

But Lily, I get very encouraged by the fact that you are a 17 year old even asking these questions. So you are fully human and you just stay practicing being the wonderful human you are. You have a passion you can carry through in your life and Have a wonderful senior year and you'll be a great psychologist and keep dancing, Lily. And we're all in this together. And thank you so much for calling us.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thank you, Lily.

[Lily]

Thank you so much.

[Katherine Grody]

Have a great day. Have a great phoneless. Have a great phoneless weekend.

[Lily]

I can't wait for my phoneless weekend

[Katherine Grody]

half a day or an hour. Okay, bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Great. Ivan, before we wrap up today, I was wondering if I could ask you a question. Asking for a friend. What's it like working with your family on a creative project? I've never personally had any experience with it, but I know this guy. Just for a little background, Mandy and Catherine are actually EPs. An incredible documentary Ivan has been making about his artist father, Sidney Cash, incredible sculptor, artist, creator extraordinaire, who's in his mid-80s now. And Ivan's an artist and the film is about his dad's relationship to art. The family work, their relationship. It's incredible piece. But you've been like deep in it with family as I, as this guy I know has my friend named Godoan. What any advice you could give me,

[Ivan Cash]

I would tell your friend Godoan. I mean, kind of the same answer that I'd start with for Lily is just a little self compassion because it's really challenging to work with family. And I think for me, oh man, what's worked well, honest, communication, space, Patience, forgiveness, more space. And for me it was really helpful. I was, I think I was probably harder on my dad in the filming than I needed to be. And I had some of my collaborators that would approach me kind of on the side and just say like, hey, don't forget he's like a sub. Like, yes, he's your dad and he's like a collaborator in our film. And let's make sure that we like aren't harder on him than anyone else that we would treat as a subject of a documentary. And yeah, I think that I was probably, I was definitely harder on him than I would be someone else. So I think understanding that it requires flexibility, patience and compassion on both sides.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Ivan Cash]

And good luck.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Godot resonates.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, good luck.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I am Godotan. Okay, we are back. I'm back in my dad's seat because he's out for the day. And we're going to do one more listener question. This is a pretty juicy one from someone who just goes by the initial L because if they said their real name, they could be in trouble. So, Katherine, mom, could you please read that?

[Katherine Grody]

Hi, Gideon, Mandy and Catherine. So I find myself at a stage of life, the middle stage, where I don't want to do things anymore. I don't want to go to parties where I don't know half the people or God forbid, networking events, or to my book club where nobody ever reads the book. I'm not proud of this opt out inclination. And I'm sure you'll tell me to get out there and take a bite out of life. That's not the advice I'm looking for. My question is much simpler. Do you think it's ever okay to fake an injury to get out of a social obligation? And if it is, or even if it isn't, frankly, what do you think is a believable fake injury for someone over 40? It has to be low maintenance, not too dramatic or long lasting. No broken limbs, please. But. But convincing enough that no one asked for details. And do either of you have a go to excuse for getting out of events? Not that you should reveal it, probably, but I have to ask. Love all three of you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Signed L. I love this question. This would be. Dad would love this question. A good idea, first and foremost for a believable injury fake to get out of things, but that people wouldn't expect to see covering bandages.

[Katherine Grody]

But do you do this periodically? I mean, are you a person that's therefore always going to be ill or always have a sprained ankle or always have a bad stomach or.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, I wouldn't suggest a sprained ankle because you can kind of like see that or see a hobble. You could use the same excuse for different groups of friends such that they don't ever know with each other. Yeah, if you're like, I have a appendix. Yeah, that's internal. You don't see anything.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, that's true. But then you have a surgery and then they want to know where and where they can send flowers or.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Who would want to know where your surgery is?

[Katherine Grody]

Well, I mean, they'd want to know. You mean if you have an appendix

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

and you appendix is an outpatient operation, you don't stay in the hospital?

[Katherine Grody]

No, but the biggest question I have, Elle, is I have a feeling and maybe I'm conjuring up my husband. Why don't you just say no, thanks? Why do you need an excuse to not do what you don't want to do at this point?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You wouldn't do that?

[Katherine Grody]

Well, I.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Hey, come to my housewarming party.

[Katherine Grody]

No, I wouldn't do that. No, No, I wouldn't do that. I think it's hard. I think you look if you don't want to go to your book club where nobody ever reads a book, I would just say to people, I'd be honest and say, guys, we don't seem to be reading the book. So I'm not going to do this anymore. Let's have coffee or do something else. But if it's.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think this is a great idea to fake an injury. I'm just gonna say right off the bat, okay. I think it's a really smart approach. I'm just trying to think internal injuries,

[Katherine Grody]

you know, like an ulcer. My ulcer's acting up. Oh, I didn't know you had an ulcer.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, yeah. What. What caused your ulcer?

[Katherine Grody]

Tonsils. Well, I don't think she's gonna have in middle aged tonsils.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, she's middle aged. Right.

[Katherine Grody]

I. I often use my husband as an excuse. So I'm sorry. I have to do something with my husband. So I can't go.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But see, had a concussion. That people worry too much. If you have a concussion.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, people would worry much.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What about the spleen? Nobody really knows what the spleen of the gallbladder really does.

[Katherine Grody]

It's so weird. If you said there's something wrong with my spleen.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What about gallbladder? I spanked gallon.

[Katherine Grody]

Well, you have stones. Kidney stones. So you could say, I'm sorry, I'm trying to pass the stone.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But that's a little. Then people are thinking about your genitals.

[Katherine Grody]

No, I know. Not good.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Is it hard for women to pass kidney stones?

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, they have trouble with them too.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Because it's still going out the urethra.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah. Yeah. It's still painful.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Not as painful as men.

[Katherine Grody]

I don't know about that. Woman think everything's more painful. But I don't know about the kidney stones.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do you think if a man has a gigantic penis, it's easier to pass kidney stones because the holes are just like bigger proportionally?

[Katherine Grody]

I don't know if that means the urethra is bigger. No matter what size the organ is.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

All men have a similar size urethra.

[Katherine Grody]

I have no idea. I'm just. I really. I'm trying to think about.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What about this last part? Do you have a go to excuse? Not that you have to share it. Yeah, but is there one that you find you use more often than anything else?

[Katherine Grody]

Well, since I really love socializing, going to everything. It's really hard for me, Elle to come up with something right now.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Really. Katherine's just trying to get into every engagement.

[Katherine Grody]

Into every engagement.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

She's looking for excuses not to stay.

[Katherine Grody]

I sometimes say I'm sorry, I had a really late night. I was working really late and I'm exhausted. I can do one more thing or I'll say I'm sorry. I've had too many social obligations, I can't do one more or too many political organizations or I, I have to take care of the grandchildren. I'm sorry. They just laid this on me. You know how they are, that generation. They don't give you any warning.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What's the worst excuse you ever gave to get out of something or the most.

[Katherine Grody]

Oh, I know there's something terrible and I can't remember it. I think I once told somebody I had a horrible stomach flu and I was sick in bed and then I ran into them in the street.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh shit.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, that was not good.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What about I shat my pants?

[Katherine Grody]

No, I don't really do that. I mean, you know, you feel like a Victorian. I really can't stand crude stuff about the body.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

This isn't, this isn't the way to beat. We're trying to help out.

[Katherine Grody]

I know this person. I don't think they can say that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But isn't that good? There's not a lot of follow up questions.

[Katherine Grody]

Why don't you say I'm sorry, I have a horrible case of diarrhea. I have a horrible case of the runs. Shat my pants just does not seem to me, it seems. Any area I can of elevating the human species as opposed to making it go low, I'm willing to take.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do you think. Look, first of all, I think if everybody talked about shitting their pants more, that elevates the humans. I mean, that's a horrible experience to go through. We shall have compassion for each other. You think it's better to have the excuse I have horrible diarrhea than I shat my pants?

[Katherine Grody]

Yes, I do. I think it sounds just a little less gross.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's fair.

[Katherine Grody]

That's fair. And I'm just looking at this. Is it ever okay to fake an injury? I think it's more okay to fake an injury always. Well, it's always okay. I think it's okay if you don't know the people well if they're not really close to you and if you're not going to have ongoing invitations from that person. So if it's a one off, it's really, I'm sorry, I have a horrible sprain and I can't really go anywhere for the next week and that's fine. But if it's a repeated invitation. You don't want to continually, like have people talking about, have you heard, Elle? They're always breaking bones.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Or also if this is a sort of invitation and not only do you want to get out of the invitation, but you'd be happy to never be asked to be invited by anything. For these people. You can really go into detail about a really involved injury. There's way too much information you know about something private or you know and really just have some distance from them.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, that's true. So we don't have a go to excuse. Except the general I'm not feeling well or my husband's not feeling well or so sorry. Since we live in two places, we can always say, I'm sorry we're in the wrong place.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Although I do, you know, philosophically, I would like to move towards a world where we can all just say thank you so much for that invitation. I don't want to do that. That's right, because it doesn't sound good to me.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah, I mean, I think you should start with your book club where nobody reads a book, which is a sort of frightening thing. And just start there, Elle, and say, guys, we're not reading. I'm not going to book club anymore.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And let us know if you picked any good fake injuries or came up with any on your own and how it went and if you were found out or if it was successful.

[Katherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thanks so much for tuning in. We want to hear from you more questions, stories, fake injuries, irritations, salad dressing, recipes. Please email [e-mail] or check out our socials for an easy way to send us a voice note. Thanks so much for being here.

[Katherine Grody]

And remember, really, honest to God, I wouldn't listen to us. I don't think we should listen to us. So don't listen to us.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Don't listen to us is a Lemonada Media original hosted by Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Created by Katrina Onstad, Debbie Pacheco and Gideon Grody Patink. Executive producers are Kathryn Grody, Gideon Grody Paninkin, Mandy Padinkin, Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles Wax. Our engineer is Ryan Derringer of Welterweight sound. Video and audio production by Mark Whiteway of Bellows Media. You can watch on CNN.com watch or the CNN app. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Media premium yet, now's the perfect time you can hear. Don't listen to us completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like behind the scenes conversations, questions so weird they didn't make it on air, Becky the Dog Shenanigans and more. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple podcasts, head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app, or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out.