← Don't Miss This Study
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- [00:02]
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Hi there. Welcome to Don't Miss this, a scripture study podcast with Dave Butler and Grace Freeman.
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Each week we point out things in the scriptures that we love and think you don't want to miss.
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Thanks for listening. Hi everyone, I'm Dave Butler.
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I'm Grace Freeman.
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Welcome to Don't Miss this, our weekly scripture study class. You guys, we're so happy to do this. We, we just love the scriptures.
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This is all tender right now, sentimental.
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This is goodbye. I'm just kidding. But we love them. We love teaching them. We want to help everybody fall in love with them even more than they already are and help their homes become more Jesus centered through the scriptures just to become believing homes. Like that's our hope every single week when we do this, we are coming to the end of the Doctrine and Covenants. Like, this is it. I don't even know what day.
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B
Now that we're here, it feels like.
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That was short.
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B
That was so short.
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Yeah. So now we're here. Old Testament is starting. No worries. We adore the Old Testament. You know some scripture you have to like gradually fall in love with. This is love at first sight.
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B
Oh my gosh. I can't wait. It's like giving me butterflies.
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But you just said that.
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B
That's so embarrassing.
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That is a little embarrassing.
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B
I can't wait.
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Don't clip that, everybody. So our whole goal next year is to help everybody fall in love with the Old Testament in particular. I actually think it's one of the greatest books that shows heart and character of God. It just. And it's foundational for the rest of scripture. We're going to help you week by week on the podcast, help you hopefully fall in love with that book. Also, if you've been with us, you know all of your stuff's ready, so get it now. I don't know what month this is. November or December.
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B
November.
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It's November. I don't know. I don't know. But all. All of our things and we've gone over them. So go back or look on our Instagram to find out which ones of these you want that are going to help. The study journal's so good. This 365 for your calendar to send your kids out with a challenge each day. The tip ins to turn your scriptures into a study Bible.
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B
Would you particularly love for the Old Testament?
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A
Yeah, it really beefs up the whole Old Testament. And if you have these from four years ago, this is a new and improved set is what this is. FYI. Anyways, we won't Talk about all those. You go check them out on our Instagram and everything. They're available now. Get them so that you're just ready to rock and roll. We also have a fun prize coming that we're not going to tell you about yet. That's a free download that we'd like to do at the beginning every year. That is coming too. So. But for today, we are in just some wild sections, actually, you know, if you were to, like, where's the wild part? Where's the Book of Revelation equivalent in the old. In the Doctrine and Covenants and sis.
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B
These ones this week?
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Yeah. 129 to 132. So we're gonna jump into these. We're recording this a little bit early because I'm about to go to Israel on Friday to take people and we're all jealous of Jesus. I know. I can't even wait. My bag's already packed and it's in, like, four days, so it's just so much zipped up, ready to go. So on this day of recording, we actually just had the press conference for a new first presidency, which is, even though we kind of knew, still felt like we were waiting for the white smoke outside of St. Peter's exactly.
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B
Like, why did they say a live announcement? And, like, I was like, I couldn't wait. Like, I was. Like. I was dropping all my plants as if it was, like, gonna be like a huge reveal.
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Yeah, tithing's only 8% or something. Just kidding. But it's like it was. I loved it, though, for us as a people, like, to celebrate this and come together.
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It felt really like we were all gathering. I don't know why it did, but it did feel like a team thing.
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And I was on the live. And when I saw, like, the number go down, I was always, y' all going, we're not. We're not done with this. You know, and then it would go back up. But something President Oaks said in that press conference, like, it just sort of. Well, there were two things. The first thing was we talked about us being our. Our commission. Our mission to the. Is to bless the whole world. Like, he was like, our ministry is every son and daughter of God on this earth. And that meant a lot to me in conjunction with his conference talk, which was that whole idea of, we're one family, we're all one family. That was just so sweet. But the other thing he said that I really loved is he said this, which is interesting for a prophet, seer, and revelator to say. That he said, we don't have all the answers to the world's problems. We don't know everything.
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B
Even when he said it, it was like, shocking to me.
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I was like, wait, yeah, it's like, that's not. That. Should the PR team probably have been like, hey, wait, hold on. But I appreciated it. I appreciated him saying, we have a fullness of the everlasting gospel. That's true. Oh, that God has revealed so far. Yeah. Right.
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Yeah.
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So that's even interesting.
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Yeah.
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And then he said, but we don't know everything. And. But then he's like, but then here there are some things we do know. And then he outlined some of those things. First and foremost, that we are children of heavenly parents, like, and went into these beautiful truths. But I just. I. That was. I'd been studying 129 to 132 and then that press conference happened. And I felt like they sort of got tied together in my heart, that statement. And then just the concepts that we learned in here. The whole idea of, there are some things that we don't know and yet there are also some things that we do. And I think that's going to maybe be a great way to read and study these 29, 30, 34 sections.
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Yeah.
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Math's not my strong suit. So I just think that's. It's interesting. We come into 129 and it's. This is the thought I have as I read. I read section 129 and I. And I'm like, I don't really understand everything that's happening here about this. This business with messengers and ask them to shake hands with you. And all this business, it feels like it's missing some context. That would be really helpful in understanding. Yeah, right. You read it and you're sort of like, what is this? What does this even mean? Even though when I was a kid, one time in the middle of the night, I woke up and I opened up section 129 next to my bed where I had to find it. It's like, where's that one? Because what if an angel comes to my room tonight?
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You really needed to be prepared.
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That's true. That's a true memory. It's a little weird. Probably shouldn't have said it on the Internet, but it's, um. So. But you read it and you're sort of like, I'm not really sure what's happening here. It's talking about really big things. And section 130 talks about really big things, like almost magical Type things. Like, they have this, like, ethereal, like esoteric, like, whoa, you're talking about, like, big stuff. And we'll get into that in. In section 130. And. And it reminded me of this thought that I had, I don't know, a couple of months ago, just about this, us being in mortality as believers. I read this line one time that says Christians live in spiritual jet lag. Like where there is this almost other world. Right.
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Yeah.
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There's something more than this world we live in, and yet we can't fully grasp it quite yet. We haven't quite caught up. Right. To the divinity of everything. And I wrote down a couple dots that. Just to describe kind of the way I've been thinking recently. And it's. We all come from a place that we can't remember, following a God we cannot see, believing in a heaven that we don't really understand for an amount of time that we don't know. We don't know what tomorrow brings, and we don't know how long we're here. And yet we sense a longing in our souls for something more bigger and beautiful, like a sense of we. We lean into a belief of it. Because really, I can't see, I can't remember. I don't quite know. I don't understand. But I. But there's something I believe in.
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Yeah.
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That I'm drawn to, that I experience. I actually do experience things that are outside the normal of this world. And. And with kind of that in mind, I go into 129 and. And then it easily is like there are things here I don't know. I don't know how angels and resurrected personages work. I don't really know what the spirits of just men made perfect are who are not resurrected but somehow have the same glory. I don't understand why somebody has to have. You know, there's keys of figuring out if they're a devil or here to deceive. Right. But there are some things I would read 129 and say, okay, but I do know this. I do know that there are keys and ways to know that God is instructing in this section, whatever the context, specific context may be for this section, the general idea and principle is, oh, God's not going to leave you on your own. There's going to be hints, there are going to be ways to know. There are going to be protections and bounds set on the adversary, and there are going to be angels, and there is going to be help from the other side of the veil, whether it's an angel or this just man made perfect, there's going to be heavenly help. I read section 129, and that's what I can come away with as I read it. And that might be a great way to read a lot of scripture, particularly scripture that feels a little bit bigger and uses really big words and concepts that are tough to wrap our heads around. It might be helpful to stop and say, okay, but what is this saying to me about God? What is this saying to me about the way we interact with each other in our lives?
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Well, and it's interesting because my personality when I read scripture, I think this is even, like, really obvious. If you were to come to my seminary class, you would understand this really quickly. Is when I read scripture, when one of my biggest goals and, like, focuses as I read is relevance. Like, why is this relevant to me? What does this have to do with my life? How is this gonna be applicable to me? And it's interesting because I think in.
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Nature and as a teacher, too. Right. That's just the way you'd think.
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Yeah. Because you have to. You're gonna keep.
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Why does anyone care?
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Yeah. If you want a captive class.
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Captivated.
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Captivated. Class of the captive.
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Captive. They're, like, tied up.
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Immediately.
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If you want to captivate.
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If you want to capture.
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Yeah.
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If you want your class to be captivated, whatever. However you say that, you get it. What I'm trying to say, it has to be something that, like, I feel like they connect with, that they, like, understand. But it's true for me and my individual. Like, I need to. If I'm gonna love scripture, it needs to be relevant to me. And so when I was reading this, initially, I had that same thought that I was like, this is too big for me. And too, like, I can't. This is. I'm not doing this on my everyday life. So I don't know what this has to do with anything. But then it was really cool because I just, like, paused and I really thought. And I was like, okay, well, like, God speaks to me. This revelation, section 1:29. God was not speaking directly to me for this. The context is not mine. I don't know what the context is, but I did pause and realize it's.
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The quorum of the 12. If anybody's nerdy and wants to know, there you go. Perfect.
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And I just paused and realized it was not written for me. I know that to be true. But the coolest thing to me about God is that he will still use words written in the context of someone else's life to benefit me. And I was like, okay, like, what does this mean for me then? And it was interesting because is this what this is trying to say at all? I have no idea. But it was interesting because as I was reading it, it talks about, like, when the devil comes and he, like, tries to trick you, kind of. Like, he's like, the devil might come, and you're not going to be sure if it's a good person or a bad person or what's happening. And I, like, paused for a second, and I was like, you know what? That actually is still relevant to me because there are still moments when I feel like the devil does show up in my life, and I'm not really sure if it's him. And I'm not really sure if I'm supposed to be led or directed or run or what. The, like, the game plan is there. And then it was so interesting because it's like the handshake business. And it's like, talking about, like, reach out and shake his, and you will feel nothing. And it made me just think about that phrase, feel nothing. And I paused and I was thinking about how, you know what? I actually think that the devil does try to trick me and does try to show up in my life and act like it's a really good thing and I really want it, and it's really something important to me. And I think that the result of trusting that and believing that. And, like, when you reach out and, like, test the waters of, Is this good or is this bad? Is this the devil or is this, like, from heavenly Father? Am I trying to, like, figure that out? I think one of the evidences is feeling nothing and is apathy. And I have been thinking about that so much. But just because I feel that in my life that, like, I think that there's a lot of areas that, like, I think the devil's being tricky. And I'm living an apathetic life, which is not, like, the way of God. That's just true about his nature. But it did make me, like, really intrigued in the rest of these sections to pause and be like, wait, we might read this and want to, like, have the idea that this is irrelevant to me right now. Like, this. I don't understand what this has to do with my life. This is way bigger than me. This isn't. I'm not living the context that these sections were given in. And just like, pausing and taking a minute to say, there's actually truth that you will need and love when you read these sections and God still knows how to speak relevance, even when the context isn't your own.
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Yeah. Well said. Well said.
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So that was kind of like a psychological.
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Yeah. And it kind of gives, like a scripture study, scripture reading tip. Especially as we go into section 130.
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Right.
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Is to say, like, okay, there are clearly going to be some things in here that you're like, I'm not really sure what's happening there.
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Yeah.
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Which I actually kind of like, I heard President Uchdorf say once upon a time, if everything was like, completely understandable or he said it backwards. So the fact that everything isn't completely understandable is evidence that it didn't come from a mortal mind.
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Cool.
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Because if it came from Joseph, then it would have been really logical, it would have made sense, and it would.
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Have been the way we think.
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Yeah. Right. So the fact that there's some things that are said in a way that you, like, what in the world is happening there is. You can actually take that as evidence. It's like, see, this is bigger than us. This is higher than us. This is something that is outside of our normal realm. And we can do that with the scriptures. We can look at it and we can find, like, what is. What is relevant. For example, verse one. What about this? When the Savior shall appear, we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he's like a man like ourselves. And I'm sort of like, okay, that sounds true and good, but we will see him as he is. It's sort of like a. Feels really poetic to me. But what I want to highlight in that verse is when the Savior shall appear. And it's like, wow. Like. Or when the Savior shall appear, we shall see him. And if you kind of like, it's reminding us there's a sweet reminder in there. Don't get caught up in what you don't understand and miss the sweet reminder that the Savior will appear. And when he does, we'll see Him. Not just in the last day when he comes in all his glory, but along the way also. Like, it's talking about not if the Savior shall appear. It starts, when he shall appear, we will see Him. So there's. There's a truth. Yeah, there's things that you can find as. As you go in section 130, by the way, was a Q and A around a dinner table at Joseph's sister's house. Right. If you look in the heading in. In a place called Ramos, it's near Nauvoo. And he actually Goes there and they're sitting around the table and people are just firing questions at Joseph. This is really just like after dinner cards. Okay. Or whatever. They're just sitting there and they start asking these questions. Which by the way, I actually adore the setting up of that scene. Like to just picture and imagine that and to imagine that some of these remarkable truths that are taught in here.
- [16:21]
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Happened around a kitchen table and then it became scripture. Kitchen table conversation became scripture.
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You got it. That's exactly where I was going. And that's just really neat. And it'll feel choppy when you read it because it was a little bit choppy because those conversations are. Yeah, question. I had this question. I had this question. And then it actually part of the section ends because they were going to go home, but it was too rainy so they all slept over and then they woke up and continued.
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Oh, it's so cute.
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A
Now it's a breakfast table. Right? Kind of. Kind of thing. So that's. You're going to notice that when you read it, it's like, why is this so choppy? And seems to like, like. And that's why. But some of the things that he starts bringing up in here. Verse 5. No, there. Well, verse 4 is talking about are the angels time and prophet's time and man's time according to the planet on which they reside. Case in point of what we've been talking about is like, I have no idea what's happening. And he's like, there's angels that minister to this earth, but they reside on the presence of God on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest past, present and future, and continually before the Lord. For the Lord God resides on a great Urim and Thummim and this earth. And it's right.
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And you're already like this.
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And P.S. let's just say this verse, we are not talking about a 14 year old with a second grade education anymore. By the time we get to this point, we are witnessing a seer who has pierced the veil and gazed into heaven itself. And this is some of the things that he's this then everyone a white stone. In Revelation 2:17, which Higher order of kingdoms. I'm like, I recognize some phrases in there, but this just feels like that's how you're describing heaven and it's wild to me. Yeah, what's happening there? But I love going back to verse two. I don't know what's happening with the sphere of glass. I read it and I say that means heaven will be different than this place. Heaven will have a things will not be the same there as they are here. It feels like I want to go there kind of thing, and then this. But then there are some things you will recognize. And you do know verse two, that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there. Only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy. Verse 2 says, there's something to look forward to, there's something better ahead of us, but you're experiencing part of what that is right now. And I was you. This was a clip on my Instagram, if you. If you follow that. That page, so you might recognize this story. I've said it on another podcast because it was so compelling to me that we had this mission prep class of Jack and all of his buddies, and then we did it with Christian and all his buddies at our house every Sunday night. And everybody came over and Jenny made a dessert, and we would first go out in the backyard and play Wiffle Ball. And then we would come in for the lesson and for the dessert. And those. Those became so treasured to us. Even though Saturday night Jenny and I would be like, oh, my gosh, what are we doing for dessert tomorrow? Like, pull a scramble. I ran to Smith's, you know, at 11 o' clock on so many different Saturdays. We were like, how many weeks are we doing?
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How many desserts can you come up with?
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A
You know, are we doing this? But then everybody would come over and they would gather, and then we'd leave and be so tired because we had things the next day and, you know, all the things. But then it came to the very last Sunday that we were doing it. And it was right before Jack left on his mission. He played Wiffle ball with a missionary name tag on. And after it was over, the kids retired his number on the back fence and hung up a flag like they do in a stadium. And I sat there and said to those boys, you're about to go out into all the different places of this world, and you might meet people who will say to you, I don't know if I believe in heaven. And you're going to be able to say back to them, well, I do, because I've been there on a Sunday night in a backyard in Lehi, Utah, and that's as much of heaven that I can even imagine right now in my life. That night I went to bed and I said to Jenny, I can't think of anything more that I want. The Same sociality that exists here will exist there. It's going to be better. Verse 2 says it's going to be indescribable. Verses 3 through 12 say things that are outside of your imagination are going to be there. But all of us are getting hints of it. We're peeking through the window of heaven right now. And I have my Sunday night wiffle ball games and afternoon conversations on my Aunt Sue's and Uncle Jeff's porch, in that little spot at the top of the stairs where we would gather our little kids to say our nightly prayers. Everybody has these moments where you've peeked into heaven, the same sociality, and what a great thing to talk about and to share with your friends together as a family. Where have been your hints of heaven? Where is that same sociality that you've experienced here that you can't wait to experience there? Also, where has heaven already come in? That's the discussion I want to have with, with my kids and then teach them. And then there's so much more to look forward to also.
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B
And even just hearing you say that, I feel like in your soul. Like, it, like, makes me crave those. Like, I'm like, oh, like I, like, want to have a campfire tonight and just sit around with all the people that I love. And like, you start even, like, and.
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A
I want to say. Can I interrupt you real fast because that what you just said, sit around with people. That's what sociality means. Sociality is a relationship word. It's a people word. Verse 2 is teaching clearly, but with too big of words that heaven is relationship. It's sociality, it's people around the campfire 100%.
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B
And it just, like, the way you describe it, it makes me want to cherish people more. Like, I just, like, sat here and I thought of that and you painted such a beautiful picture of the heaven that we can experience on earth and given, like, the imagination to imagine even something better than that. And I think for me, even just like, hearing that you're teaching, like, at the same time, like, I, like, in my soul, I'm like, oh, I want to cherish that more. I want to love my people better. I want to go out of my way to fill my days with far less scrolling and far more conversation. And I want to discover what it looks like to experience heaven on earth. And that is what relationship.
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A
And I, I'm just thinking about President Oak's, like, last talk, you know, at the end of conference. And like, it may have, like, people have been like, what Is he actually talking about here? But I think you're hitting what he was talking about.
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B
And he did the same thing as you that he painted a picture of what it looks like to build real relationships.
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A
Yes, yes. And I left that talk and actually thought the same thought. The same thought you're having. Whatever.
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B
Yeah, I agree.
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A
Anyways. Yeah. Sociality.
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B
Yeah.
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A
But I, like, I left that talk and I thought, okay, what do I need to do as a friend? What do I need to do as a dad to help create this heaven here on earth? Like, what do we need to shut down? What do we need to do more? Yes, to help to create. And it's going to be really. The question is, as you're saying, like, how do I cherish people better? How do I strengthen relationships?
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B
How do I prioritize that? And it's interesting because that happened to me, too.
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A
I'm.
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B
You may know this, you may not. I'm like 26 and I am not married and I don't have any kids. And it was so interesting listening to that talk because it painted a picture of what I hope my family's like. And he said such interesting things. Like, I was like, why is he mentioning such specific things? Because he was like, teach your kids languages when they're growing up. And I was like, what is happening right now? Because it wasn't, like, broad things.
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A
But I don't think he necessarily meant everybody go get.
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B
No, like, go get duolingo. And like, whatever. Yeah, but he was giving examples. Yes. Because what I think is magic is it's the same thing that just happened when you described this is when someone paints the picture of heaven, you realize it's not going to be the same for every single person. But I think it gives you the ability to create what your heaven will be. And it might not look like duolingo every night with your kids or Wiffle Ball on Sunday nights, but there's a pause that, like, the specifics of it make you realize what's actually important. And I paused and I started thinking, because it's interesting. As you go through this chapter, he continues to describe, like, what is really important on earth, because what will we actually have with us? And you start seeing in verse number 18, he, like, introduces a new. He's like, okay, yeah, people, obviously we know that, like, we've got that mastered in 17 verses or whatever. And then he says, whatever principle of intelligence, of intelligence we attain unto this unto. In this life, it will arise with us in the resurrection. And now he's all of a Sudden introducing a new idea that he's like, okay, wait, it's not just your relationships, but there's this level of intelligence, of knowledge. And I feel like I remember growing up, I have a clear memory of learning this in primary and my teacher being like, okay, what you take with you is people. And, like, what you learned, like, that's what you take with you. And I remember walking out of that primary lesson and being like, I have got to pay more attention in math class. Like, I am, like, I'm falling apart and I'm going to be dumb in heaven. And I'm going to be like, that's going to be my consequence for not paying attention to math. And you read it because, listen, this part really does trick you. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come. And then I was like, I'm terrible at math and that's going to be it for me. And I'm super bad at trivia. Like, I'm like, this isn't going to work out in my whole, like, life. Like, I feel like I spent so much time thinking, like, okay, intelligence and knowledge and how many games can I win of, like, airplane trivia. And that's going to be, like, what I take with me when I go, like, this is it. Like, I've got to pay better attention in math. And then it's interesting because it uses two really important words to describe the intelligence and knowledge. And it says, his diligence and obedience. And then you pause and you start realizing, like, I actually don't need diligence to play trivia. And, like, there's not a lot of obedience that has to do with math. Like, I don't think that, like, me using a number two pencil on the act is the type of obedience he's saying it will require for your knowledge. Yeah, there must be a different level of intelligence, a different kind, a different kind of knowledge that you need to acquire. And when I hear those words, diligence and obedience, that doesn't seem like, like, plus and minus in times and like your spelling tests. Rather, it's this moment where you pause and you realize, I think he's talking about experience. He's talking about a level of learning that comes through what you're experiencing in life. Diligence and obedience are experienced experience words. You have to live obedience. You have to work through you. Like, diligence is a grit word. When I hear diligence, that Is the word that comes to my mind first is it's gritty and it's hard, and it requires you to, like, actually put in work and level. And I started realizing that I don't think this knowledge is trivia. I think this knowledge is character. What are you learning in your journey of becoming? And then all of a sudden, you start realizing, oh, diligence does teach me things in who I am becoming. Obedience is teaching me lessons that I could no otherwise learn without the, like, knowledge that I'm getting of, like, hey, I have to learn to master the natural man in me. I have to learn how to, like, submit myself to someone who knows better than me. I'm discovering who I am. I'm building my character. And that knowledge is going to be the most valuable in heaven. Who I really become is the most valuable. And it's cool because it goes through verse number 20, and it starts talking.
- [28:57]
A
About, well, can I say something about that? That I had a conversation once with somebody who was a little bit snarky about their. Their parents and their grandparents, you know, who I know really well. And he was just kind of saying he actually was really, really smart. Like, 36 on the act. Kind of smart. Yeah. And I think that smartness made him think he was a little bit more better than his parents and his grandparents. Like, they came up in the conversation, and I just remember sitting there thinking. I was like, who those people are, who they've become through the kind of lives that they have lived is actually what I would want to take with me into the next life, not the book knowledge that you have. And I just remember thinking, there's no shortcut to the kind of people that they are today. Their souls are beautiful, and it's because of a lifetime of diligence and obedience. And I think all of us, we all know somebody who's like that, that we look at them and we admire their character, we admire their heart. And if we have that sense of admiration, we ought to know it's because of a lifetime of diligence and obedience that's refined their soul to who they are. I can ask Chad GPT right now for any fact on planet Earth. 98% of the time, it's right. It's probably gonna get better. Probably 92. It's probably 92% or 89. I don't know. Right. I can get information that fast, but I cannot get that fast. A kind of heart like God, a heart like the Savior, that takes time, and it takes experience, and it takes trust, and it Takes sacrifice and all of those things to become the kind of person that I actually want to become.
- [30:51]
B
And I think sometimes when we hear the word obedience, we get afraid because it feels like we have a micromanager, that it's like, oh, we have to, like, just do whatever this bossy person is telling us to do. And this way of describing obedience is so different because when I think about people like that, even in my own life, when I think about my grandparents and who they are and who, who they've become and the lessons that they've taught me and their souls and their hearts, I instantly think I would be willing to do anything to become a fraction of the people that they are. I would be willing to do anything.
- [31:27]
A
Yeah, like, and it's crazy because we. No, no, keep going. Keep on it.
- [31:31]
B
Because I'm.
- [31:31]
A
Grandparents interrupt that. But like, I don't know. I was just going to say, like, sometimes we look at them and we're just like, you don't know how to do email, you know, and it's like, I know, I know, right? And we might dismiss. And that would be a tragedy to dismiss someone because they, they wear their cell phone around on their belt. Like it's a diabetes thing or whatever, you know, and it's like that, it would, that would be a tragedy to dismiss somebody because they don't know how to log in to something. You know, like, there's things your grandma cannot log into. Yep. No, I am certain of it. And, and what I want to say is like, I don't care. No, take away all my logins. In fact, you can just do face ID now and fine, you don't have to log in.
- [32:14]
B
She's great at it. Right?
- [32:14]
A
That's fine. Right. But I was like, I, I take. Take away all of it. Take away all of that, you know, quick gets. And, And I would, I would take who she is. I would take who she is a hundred times out of a hundred over knowing how to do all the things. Am I making sense? Yes. Like, sometimes, like, we look at someone older and we're just like, oh, you don't really know how to do anything, Grandpa. Yeah, or whatever. And it's like, oh, but who they are, you know, that can't be faked and it can't be achieved overnight.
- [32:42]
B
There's different types of wisdom. And like, if I could, if diligence and obedience could turn me into the person that is like, the type of, like, love that my grandma and Grandpa Freeman know how to give freely to people. Oh, I would take it in a heartbeat. And if I. Like. Diligence and obedience led me to become the disciples that Grandma. Grandpa Mac and Grandma Leslie are to me in my life. Like, I would be willing to, like, live that every day to the very best of my abilities over and over and over and over again. And it's interesting because, yeah, like, verse number 19 says, like, that will give you a lot of advantage in heaven, like, who you become and the lessons that you've learned through your experiences and on earth and the journey of becoming on earth, like, that will help you out in heaven. You get to take that with you. But it's really powerful to me that verse number 20 also stops, and it's like, wait. But, like, even before heaven, like, let me explain. A law that is like an eternal law that is powerful. There's a law decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world upon which all blessings are pred.
- [33:50]
A
Predicated.
- [33:50]
B
Predicated. Thank you. I was about to say that, and then I got a little nervous, a little insecure. And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to the law upon which it is predicated. And I just paused and I started thinking, like, God actually isn't waiting for heaven to give us, like, a good life. He's not waiting in heaven being like, okay, yeah, like, the journey of becoming is going to be terrible and obedience is going to be horrible, and you're going to hate it, and diligence is going to make you exhausted and tired. Are some of those things true? Is obedience hard? Yeah, it is, actually. Is diligence sometimes exhausting? Yeah, mostly all the time. Being diligent makes me exhausted.
- [34:28]
A
But it's. But it's the reason we love them, too.
- [34:30]
B
Interestingly, that's actually why they work.
- [34:33]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [34:34]
B
That's why it's worth it, is because the best things in life are the things that make us feel deeply. And obedience and diligence make us feel deeply. And that is something that he's like, wait, you don't understand. Like, the blessings you'll experience. Experience not just in heaven, but right now. That is obedience. That's why I'm asking you to do it. It's not because he's trying to micromanage us. It's because he's like, I know who you can become, and I know the blessings that will happen because of who you are.
- [35:03]
A
Let me show you the patterns and how to do it. Like, I like to replace the word law, usually with the word pattern of living, because I'm not trying to soften like what, you know, God wants or is whatever on.
- [35:14]
B
Yeah.
- [35:15]
A
But, like, there are patterns of living.
- [35:18]
B
Yep.
- [35:18]
A
Right. Upon which all blessings are predicated. And he's showing us those. He's showing us those patterns.
- [35:23]
B
Yeah. And I think even just.
- [35:25]
A
And let me say this.
- [35:26]
B
No, go.
- [35:26]
A
And then. I'm sorry.
- [35:27]
B
You're good.
- [35:28]
A
You're good. It's. This would be a really easy. You can actually track this, you can trace this, you can actually look at your life, and you could look at any law of heaven, law of God that he's given or pattern living he's given and identify the blessing that came from it. Like, your memory will be your greatest evidence, you know, and your greatest motivator to. To keep doing it. Because I can sit down and say, like, to all my kids. Right. Tell me, like, let's look at some. Let's. Let's look at some of, like, the laws, the commandments that God's given. What have you seen come into your life because of those? Let me tell you about some of the ones that have come into my life because of them.
- [36:05]
B
Anyways, and that is what the tibbins are for the teens and the kids, the adults. One is, like, the questions that inspired the revelation. But the kids and the teens are about obedience, which I think is, like, it's a really relevant and such an important conversation for kids and teens and whoever's learning it, honestly, really, to, like, pause and say, listen, let's understand, like, what obedience really is. It's not someone being bossy to you.
- [36:30]
A
Yeah.
- [36:31]
B
Why do you want to be obedient?
- [36:33]
A
Yeah.
- [36:33]
B
It's not just because you don't want to get in trouble. There's something bigger here. It's not that you're avoiding consequence. It's that you're really understanding. Obedience helps you become it. Like sitting down and pausing and being like, what is hard about obedience? What do we cherish about obedience? Why is obedience worth it? There's so many things you can find in just three verses in section 130. If you go through 19, 20, and 21 to pause and say, why is obedience worth it? Why do you want to be obedient? Why does that matter to you? That, like, you can have, like, a really powerful discussion and let's change the way we see obedience because of what it means not only on earth right now, but in heaven as well.
- [37:11]
A
Yeah. That's so awesome. So, like, obviously there's some things I don't understand that God has commanded, but there are some things I do understand. I can. I have experienced 20 and 21 before. I've. I've seen. I've seen that happen. I found this quote a little bit earlier today from President Uchdorf from a talk called. It has the word truth in it. Everybody, I think I'll say, what is truth? Maybe I can't remember. I love this line. We simply don't know all things. We can't see everything. What may seem contradictory now may be perfectly understandable as we search for and receive more trustworthy information. Because we see, as Paul said, through a glass darkly. We have to trust the Lord who sees all things clearly. Our world is full of confusion, but eventually all of our questions will be answered. I like that one for. Because of the last verses of section 130, about 22 and 23, about the Holy Ghost being able to come and just imagining what a sweet and powerful gift that is to guide us through these confusing parts, to comfort us when we don't know. And just these kind of sections help you appreciate the Holy Ghost and learning to follow and. And teaching our kids what that's like. To follow, to be patient, to let the Holy Ghost lead someone in a world where it's like, wait, I can get so much information so quickly. Like, all of a sudden I can do all of my callings and all of my things, you know, through, you know, apps. And it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's make sure we understand and appreciate and learn how to follow the Holy Ghost. I love it because it's also a really helpful way and that quote from President Uchtdorf to go into section 132. Section 131 introduces the concept of eternal marriage. It's a short section and it's talking about this great blessing that will come to be sealed together, you know, as husband and wife for the eternities. And section 132 is known by some as the section on plural marriage. I don't actually think, and I wouldn't call it, if I were titling it the section on plural marriage, if I were doing that, but because it brings it up and because it's such a, like a blah kind of topic, like that sort of takes over.
- [39:44]
B
Yeah, the attention goes there, right?
- [39:46]
A
It takes over. It's like, anyways, we don't need an analogy there. You get that. So I just kind of had a couple of thoughts about this idea that it's section 132 as you approach, like a difficult thing like this one. What we've been saying. There are some things I do not understand. And there are some things I do know, right? And section 132 is full of things that we don't understand. I'm not trying to dismiss the difficulty of this. If you'll go down to verse 50 in section 132 for just a second, like, you'll hear the Lord say this. I've seen your sacrifices and will forgive all your sins. I've seen your sacrifices in obedience to that which I've told you. Go, therefore, and I make a way for your escape. As I accepted the offering of Abraham and of his son Isaac. The Lord is comparing what happened with plural marriage to Abraham and Isaac, which is a story Jenny won't even let me read to our kids because she's so scared of it. It's so hard, right? And so I'm not dismissing how difficult, extremely difficult this was for so many people in the past and in the present. There's a lot of people who read this, who hear about this, and they. And they get worried about some things. I read a survey once of members of the church and things that they struggle with, with 132 and high and above everything. Like the women who filled out the survey said, I'm nervous. I have to live this principle someday. I get nervous about that. The boy's answer, interestingly, is like, can I trust Joseph Smith as a prophet with something that seems so salacious and plural marriage? And these kind of stories are really easy to take out of context. You could really easily do like scandalous and salacious headlines from it and take information out of context, you know, and it sounds like, so shocking, right? Which can happen. I'm not dismissing that. People do have those concerns and they do have those worries about that. I just like to give a couple tips. One of them is that President Uchdorf quote, there are some things we know, some things seem contradictory. Now one day we get all of the answers. We're not there yet. But as you approach difficult things like this, here's something I want you to do. Remember the heart of God. Remember what he is like. Remember who he is. Even some of the language in section 132 can be difficult because this was written 200 years ago and it's out of context for us. And so some of it may sound harsh and you're like, but remember what he's like, right? So you should read some scripture in light of all scripture. Don't just take single scriptures out of context.
- [42:32]
B
That's a really good tip.
- [42:33]
A
Read section 132 and single verses in it in context of all scripture. Look who Jesus was in the New Testament as you read section 132. Right. Like make sure you read some scripture in light of all scripture. Remember agency, an eternal principle. None of us are ever going to be forced to to live something we do not want to live. We don't know what the next life is like. We don't have all of the answers there or anything. But this is not a law that anybody has to worry that they are going to live. I say those things and BS if you want some really good context in the background, I think you ought to go to my friend Scott Woodward and Casey Griffiths. They have a podcast and when they do section 132 that will give you a lot of the background that you're going to need to help you like understand the context of it. That would be really helpful in the and to get really smart about that. For those who want to study and deeper faithful understanding, there's some people like ah, it doesn't bother me. But for those who does, that would be a suggestion that, that I would give you. When Joseph goes and asks this question in132 about plural marriage, before the Lord speaks about plural marriage, he says hold on, hold on, hold on. There's something more important than that that I want to talk about. And that's the beginning of 132. And that is the part that I would focus on. That's where I would begin because that's where the Lord began and taught this beautiful and powerful things. Like I don't know all things, but I do know in reading section 132 that God is going to be better to me than I ever wildly deserved. That is what you will walk away from 132 as thinking and understanding, right? Yep. Don't quite get caught up in like the ah of it. Go study it. If you need to like have those fears settled, that'd be great. And once they're settled, you can come in and appreciate the beginning of it. The truths that the Lord actually wanted to teach. Yep. In section 132. How about this one for example, verse 5 I have a blessing at my hands for all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing. 6 and as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for this purpose. For the fullness of my glory my laws were instituted. And right now at the beginning. P.S. he has not gotten into a pro marriage. He's talking about Marriage, celestial marriage is what he's talking about. I'm trying to exalt you is what he's saying. And that's actually our, our word for the week. To understand this is God's purpose and intention for us. We can't understand this. Right. What this even means. But to exalt means to take someone from one station to a higher station. And that is what God wants to do with all of us. Look at verse seven. The conditions of the law are these. All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations or expectations that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise have no power in the world to come. Which means the opposite of that is true. Verse 7 is God is a promise keeper that no matter any oath, vow, performance, connection, contract, bond, obligation that we enter into in faithfulness, he will keep. Right.
- [46:12]
B
Well, and I think one of my favorite parts that I see over and over in 132 is just that phrase, by my word. And he doesn't just say it once, he says it a few times. You can find it. One is in verse, I think 19. Yeah. At the beginning of verse 19. And I think there's something important to realize and something powerful to realize that His Word means something and you can trust it.
- [46:33]
A
Yes.
- [46:34]
B
And when he speaks, remember first of all who is speaking and also what that implies. The person that's speaking knows the entire story. He sees everything. But also His Word is valuable. You can trust it. You can bank on it. I think sometimes, like we say that like all the time, like, oh, I take my word, word for it. Like take my word for it. It's like some people, you actually don't want to take their word for it. You can't trust it. You don't know if it's going to be true. But his you can bank on. It's 100% certain he will keep his promises. So when he says by My word, this is true. Like remember who's speaking. Remember what that means. Remember he knows the whole story.
- [47:13]
A
Yeah, yeah. If you read verse 19 where he says by my word and I seal it with my like, with my promise and, and, and my blood. And like Jesus, like, I put my whole life on the line for this. You can trust me. Look at that picture. I did not give up on the cross. I had a greater picture in mind for you and I, and I will keep it and I will fulfill it all. And then you get to the end of it and it talks about this is all for your glory and exaltation in all things sealed upon your heads, Then shall they be gods, because they have no end from everlasting to everlasting. Like again, it comes back to, I have no idea what you are talking about, and I have no idea what that looks like. But I read it, and I see a God who's ready to pour out gifts and grace that our minds cannot even comprehend. That is who's speaking. That is who we're being obedient to. That is who we are following and worshiping and looking to to make it through this messy middle of mortality. I can't understand everything about marriage in this life or in the next life or. Or heaven. But I can read enough to know it's going to be better than I ever imagined and bigger than I deserve. That, to me, is the message of 132. There will be hard things. 132 says. There will be things you do not understand, 132 says, but God says, I will use all of those things. They will all be for your gain. I will use them all to change the heart, to change the soul, to prepare you and expand you, to receive all the gifts that I intend to pour out on you. That's like. That's the heart and soul.
- [49:17]
B
And then why wouldn't you just say, oh, because him?
- [49:21]
A
Right, Just because of him. Okay. All right, y', all, hope you have a great week, and we'll see you next time. If you want to follow along in everything we're doing, you can find us on. On Instagram at. Don't miss this study, at this week's Grace, and at Mr. Dave Butler.
- [49:35]
B
And if you want to subscribe to the app or get our weekly newsletter, all of the information can be found@don'tmissthisstudy.com.
- [49:41]
A
See you next week.