WHAT REALLY LASTS

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "WHAT REALLY LASTS"

Podcast: Don't Miss This Study
Hosts: Emily Freeman & David Butler (with Grace Freeman and guest hosts)
Date: September 29, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, titled "WHAT REALLY LASTS," the hosts delve into Doctrine and Covenants sections 111–114, exploring lessons learned by early church leaders about priorities, treasure, personal challenges, and faith. Set on location at the Far West Temple site, Emily and Dave guide listeners through stories of seeking worldly treasure, enduring financial and faith crises, and the transformative power of focusing on people, faith, and God’s will as what truly endures.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. True Treasure: Lessons from Salem, Massachusetts

[05:11–12:41]

• The episode begins with Joseph Smith’s journey to Salem, prompted by rumors of literal treasure intended to solve serious financial burdens.
• God's message (Section 111): While Joseph sought money, God redirected him to see that His real treasure is people, relationships, and experiences.
• Quote:

  "Our most treasured experiences from this earth are the way we love and take care of people. They always will be."
  — [01:22] Unidentified Female Host

• Emphasis is placed on actively recognizing and treating people as treasures in our lives, pausing to love and care more intentionally.
• Emily explains:

  "...it’s almost as if He’s saying, ‘I see the problem. I acknowledge the problem. I’m gonna take care of the problem. Your job is the people, and that’s the treasure I want you to be invested in right now.'"
  — [08:03]

• God doesn’t chastise Joseph for what’s called a “folly,” instead guiding him to meet people and influence the city—a lesson that our perceived mistakes can become learning and growth opportunities.

2. Priorities and Patience in God's Timing

[12:05–12:41]

• God tells Joseph that He’ll “order all things for your good as fast as you are able to receive them” ([11:14]).
• Emily’s reflection:

  "Sometimes we get so focused on the thing that we need resolved that we don’t see Him—the work He’s doing in all of the other things at that time."
  — [11:14]

• The slow resolution of the Kirtland Temple’s debt leads to significant “sifting” among church members, teaching patience and trust in divine timing.

3. Kirtland Crisis: Faith, Apostasy, and Mission

[13:39–16:27]

• After returning from Salem, the church faces a financial panic; the Kirtland Anti-Bank fails, leading to a “crisis of faith and finances.”
• Many leaders question Joseph’s authority, prompting a schism. Yet, amid turmoil, Joseph calls Heber C. Kimball to open missionary work in England—a mission that saves the church demographically and spiritually.

4. The Story of Thomas B. Marsh: Small Offenses, Big Wounds

[16:27–30:02]

• Thomas B. Marsh, President of the Twelve, receives specific counsel from God (Section 112): be of good cheer, stay in place, be humble, and remain loyal.
• Marsh’s downfall begins over a trivial dispute ("milk strippings" or cheese profits), escalating through legal appeals up to the First Presidency, ultimately resulting in excommunication.
• Emily summarizes Marsh’s self-reflection ([26:23]):
  • Lost the Spirit of the Lord.
  • Became jealous and focused on what was wrong.
  • Let anger and negativity dominate, wishing others to feel the same.
• Quote:

  "I got mad, and I wanted everyone else to be mad."
  — [28:56] Emily Freeman quoting Marsh

Lessons from Marsh’s Return

• After 18 years, Marsh seeks reentry to the faith, publicly confessing his faults to the Saints in Utah.

• Quote:

  "He loved me too much to let me go without a whipping."
  — [24:25] Emily Freeman quoting Marsh

• The congregation unanimously welcomes him back, highlighting the community’s capacity for forgiveness.

• "Sell the Cow:" The advice is given to let go of small things that escalate into division or separation from faith:

  "If there’s something in your life that is causing you to lose the spirit, ... just sell the cow."
  — [30:02] Emily Freeman

5. Captain Fear Not – David Patton: Faith and Martyrdom

[32:12–34:57]

• David Patton, aka “Captain Fear Not,” stands out for his steadfastness during apostasy and ultimately becomes a martyr after leading a rescue at Crooked River.
• Final words to his wife:

  "Whatever else you do, oh, do not deny the faith."
  — [33:55] Emily Freeman quoting Patton

6. The Sifting of Leaders and the Lord’s Endurance

[34:56–40:03]

• During the period at Far West, around 10% of church members and 33% of leaders leave; yet, God “plants” new, dedicated leaders in their place.
• Notably, Wilford Woodruff, John Taylor, and others are sustained and their faithfulness is prophesied, even against determined opposition.
• Story highlight: Despite the extermination order, the apostles return in secret to the Far West site to fulfill prophecy, ordain new leaders, and sing a hymn, demonstrating the power and daring born of faith.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

On What Lasts:

• "What matters? What do you want to take with you if you could?"
  — [02:38] Unidentified Female Host

On Forgiveness:

• "Would we be that quick to forgive and to welcome someone and to welcome back in?... everyone who wanted to come back was welcomed back, every single one."
  — [31:18] Emily Freeman

On Apostasy:

• "When the devil began to lead me, it was easy for the carnal mind to rise up, which is anger, jealousy and wrath... I got mad and I wanted everyone else to be mad."
  — [28:56] Emily Freeman (quoting Marsh)

On Choosing the Right Treasure:

• "It’s the right treasure and the right perspective. It’s the right priorities, right? That’s what you start seeing all the way through..."
  — [40:03] Emily Freeman

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Timestamps: Important Segments

• [01:22] — Treasuring People: Weekly theme and challenge.
• [05:11–12:41] — The real “Salem treasure” and God’s priorities.
• [13:39–16:27] — Kirtland Bank failure; faith and financial crisis.
• [16:27–30:02] — The “milk strippings” story and the fall of Thomas B. Marsh.
• [26:23–29:56] — Marsh’s reasons for apostasy and lessons learned.
• [31:18–32:12] — Forgiveness and Marsh’s return to the Church.
• [32:12–34:57] — Captain Fear Not: Martyrdom and courage.
• [34:56–37:26] — Sifting, new leadership, and Wilford Woodruff’s faith.
• [37:26–40:03] — Fulfillment of prophecy at Far West; daring midnight ordination; the power of faithfulness.
• [40:03] — Conclusion: Perspective, priorities, and enduring treasures.

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Final Takeaways

• What really lasts in this mortal experience is not material wealth or worldly security, but the ways we love and care for others, our faith in Christ, humility, and forgiveness.
• Even in times of spiritual or financial crisis, God’s focus remains on developing people and relationships.
• Small grievances (“the cow”) can escalate and consume spiritual focus—let them go before they disrupt faith and unity.
• Welcoming back the lost or repentant with kindness and unanimity reflects the heart of the gospel.
• Real courage and endurance come from focusing on the Lord and what He treasures most—His people.

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Transcript

[Dave Butler]

Hi there. Welcome to Don't Miss this, a scripture study podcast with Dave Butler and Grace Freeman.

[Grace Freeman]

Each week we point out things in the scriptures that we love and think you don't want to miss.

[Dave Butler]

Thanks for listening. Hi, I'm Dave Butler.

[Grace Freeman]

I'm Grace Freeman.

[Dave Butler]

Welcome to Don't Miss this, our weekly scripture study class. We're getting really good at that, you guys.

[Unidentified Female Host]

We have another field trip today. This is double field trip in a row. A two for one. I don't know why that's two for one, but we have two in a.

[Dave Butler]

Row, which is awesome.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I hope you loved that Kirtland Temple episode if you did not get a chance to watch it. It is one of my favorites for the whole year. It's my favorite sections of the entire Doctrine and Covenants. So for sure go back and get that one.

[Dave Butler]

And if you never had a lesson.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Like with your family on that one, you could still do it like a week later. It's just. Yeah. And it's seriously such a good one. It just helps us understand and connect the temple to as a gift of God. And not as a requirement or a checklist thing, but an actual gift, a compensatory blessing for how hard life can be. So that was last week. That's so awesome. This week continues on this. This week's really cool. We're going to Far west and we got several sections that we're doing, so lots of different lessons. You get to meet David Patton, who they called Captain Fear Not.

[Dave Butler]

Such a rad story when they're trying.

[Unidentified Female Host]

To lay the foundations of that temple there. But at the beginning, there is this lesson about treasure and how Joseph and company go out to Salem, Massachusetts, because they hear about some buried treasure out there and how the Lord teaches them about his real treasure. And so the word of the week for your posters to hang up is treasure. And this is what you're going to want to teach about this. The quote will help you do that when you talk about what. That what God's greatest treasure is and what our greatest treasure on earth is. And it's people. And if you remember, if you teach that lesson first, then when you put this poster up, that can be what everybody thinks as they pass by. Just like, oh, wait, our most treasured experiences from this earth are the way we love and take care of people. They always. They always will be. And what a cool reminder that's gonna be hanging up.

[Grace Freeman]

And the tippins go right along with that. It gives you a little moment to pause and think about the people in your life who are treasure to you, but also how you can treat people a little bit more like they really are treasure. So just a little pause today to love people a little bit better this week.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah. That'll be such a cool, like, challenge for a group of friends or a family to treat people like treasure and a tender conversation. Yeah.

[Grace Freeman]

Of what does that really look like? To treat people like treasure and what.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Lasts in this earth.

[Emily Freeman]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Like what matters. What do you want to take with you if you could. Yep. Right. Because you get a mansion when you get there.

[Dave Butler]

You have a mortgage you don't have to pay.

[Unidentified Female Host]

So, like, what do you really want to take with you? Also, y', all, before we jump in, we just have to give you this because.

[Dave Butler]

What we have a sneak peek.

[Unidentified Female Host]

We're going to show you more starting next week.

[Dave Butler]

But Old Testament, it's time to get.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Excited for Old Testament. Listen, our goal next year is to make you not intimidate, don't be intimidated about the Old Testament. It's one of the greatest books that shows the heart and character of God. You find the story and symbols of Jesus all throughout it. It's. We are going to like take it bit by bit. It's going to be your favorite book of scripture, a competitor of your favorite book of scripture by the end of the year. We want to help you not only love the Old Testament, but help create homes that are centered in faith like Jesus centered homes and using the scriptures to do that. So the things that we've created are intended to help you understand the Old Testament but more important than that to just become a household of faith. And so we're this year they're our best that we've ever done to tippins which are revised from last year with additional helps. We have one tip in set this year, by the way. This in Old Testament. Just one going back to that making it study Bible. We'll tell more. The posters would have Hebrew words. The 365 calendar is set on your counter like a thought every morning as you go through. And then our journal which has been upgraded, updated, had a glow up just.

[Grace Freeman]

Like a really good one like ah.

[Unidentified Female Host]

We're gonna speaking of treasure.

[Emily Freeman]

Okay.

[Unidentified Female Host]

But we're gonna tell you about all of these. But we just had to let you know that they are about to be available. So okay.

[Dave Butler]

Until then, enjoy Far west and we'll.

[Unidentified Female Host]

See you next week.

[Dave Butler]

Hi everyone, I'm David Butler.

[Emily Freeman]

I'm Emily Freeman.

[Dave Butler]

Welcome to don't miss this. Here we are on another that was sounding like, like Some kid's new show. All right, we're at another one of our field trips on location places. And if you've never been here before, let us introduce it to you. This is the Far West Temple site. We aren't there at the beginning of our chapters today, but we will be there by the time we get to the end of the chapters today. So we wanted to kind of just be here and for some really fun stories and interesting and powerful things that happened for a really short time. While the church was kind of headquartered in Far west, we're 111 through 114.

[Emily Freeman]

What if we had gone here? Salem, Massachusetts. We could be in Salem, Massachusetts right now.

[Dave Butler]

Yeah. Sorry, everyone. We did not do that for our thing. But 111 does happen in Salem. The only one that happens in Salem. It seems kind of random, but this is what's going on. You remember last time we just had. We talked about the Kirtland Temple, and we were there and talking about the promises and the keys that were restored and the blessings that would go out from that place. You also may remember they built that in their poverty. It was so expensive. And they were still what today would be over a million dollars in debt for the building of the temple. And also Zion's Camp, you remember, because the Saints have been kicked out of Jackson county, and they're still in some of these other counties, but. Right. All of this is so expensive. And so they're looking for ways. How do we not go bankrupt? How do we pay our debts? And there's this man who comes to Joseph, William Burgess, and he says, I know of this hidden treasure in Salem, Massachusetts. Should we go? And they're like, okay, let's go. So they gather together this crew and they go up there. And as they're walking through, this guy William is like, well, I thought it was here. I thought it was here. It's just, man, I can't remember where it is. And they can't find it. And so Joseph prays, and this is the answer 1:11. And. And it's interesting because it starts off and the Lord's like, listen, I'm not mad at you for coming on this journey. Even though it wasn't a super smart idea, he calls it one of his follies. He says, because I have much treasure for you in this city. And we love the idea that Joseph goes looking for money, treasure, but God has an entirely different treasure in mind for them in that place. We kind of learn a lesson about his priority versus our priorities. What was the real treasure that was there. We like in verse three, where God says, I'm going to lead you to treasure. And look how he says he's going to lead people to treasure. In verse three, there's blanks on your study guide. And it says, as you shall be led and as it shall be given you. But also notice in that verse that he's talking about, I want you to become acquainted with people that you're looking for this kind of treasure. But it's the treasure of people that I'm really interested in you finding in that place. And so they do. They become acquainted with the people there. There will end up being a branch of the church that grows up in Salem, Massachusetts. Joseph will actually hand the copy of this revelation to Erastus Snow one day. And he says, here, will you go fulfill this in Salem? And so he goes on that. On that mission there. But you love when you're talking about.

[Emily Freeman]

Priorities, right here in verse five is where you kind of see him helping to adjust Joseph's perspective. He tells him, concern not yourselves about your debts, for I will give you power to pay them. And so it's almost as if he's saying, I see the problem. I acknowledge the problem. I'm gonna take care of the problem. Your job is the people, and that's the treasure I want you to be invested in right now. And the Lord will eventually take care of that debt. It won't happen until Brigham Young, but he will take care of it. And that debt ends up being a cause of sifting for many people during this time. So it's interesting just to watch the Lord let people kind of look at their priorities and figure out what they're doing in that lesson, including Joseph. And that he says to him, this is not your worry. This is my worry. I'll take care of it. This is your worry.

[Dave Butler]

Yeah. And I also think there's a really powerful lesson here where Joseph sees a problem and he just moves on it. And he's like, great, let's go do this. And the Lord says, I'm not mad that you did that. And how he's just going to steer them with the decision that they made. I think a lot of times people feel a little bit paralyzed when they make life decisions or they're seeking for revelation and they end up doing nothing. But it's neat to see that God can even take our follies and just weave them into his greater purposes and plan and story, and that's what he ends up doing in this place. At the end we think this is neat.

[Unidentified Female Host]

He actually tells them it's interesting that.

[Dave Butler]

Like, the debt is an emergency back in Kirtland.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Like, it's something that is, like, really, really pressing.

[Dave Butler]

But he still tells them, verse seven, I want you to just stay in this place for a little while, and I want you to become acquainted with the stories in the history of this place, which is kind of interesting. Let's talk about that for just a second. That when he says down in. At the very end of the verse, there's more than. In verse 10, there are more treasures than one. For in this city, which is so neat to think about God saying that to us, I have more treasures than one for you. He is that God of abundance, you know. But he tells them, study the ancient inhabitants of this. Of this city. And they do. And they learn, as you may know, about the. About the Salem witch trials. And they walk over, like, the rubble of a burnt cathedral. And they learn this powerful lesson also that Salem was a city that was built up by the pilgrims to be a new Jerusalem. But in their zeal for being right, they ended up persecuting each other. And they'll learn a really powerful lesson about unity with people of other faiths and how that is more important than being right. And that will make a deep impression on them when they go to Nauvoo. So it's just interesting. Like, this folly of his turns out to be, like, a really powerful learning season.

[Emily Freeman]

I love, too, at the end of that, he says this. This verse, there are more treasures for you than one in this city, and I will order all things for your good as fast as you are able to receive them. And in my life, there have been so many times that this has been the set of verses that has hung on my fridge and on the mirror in my bathroom just to remember that even when I feel consumed by something overwhelming like debt or something else that is going on in life, to have that reminder that God sees it. He knows that it's there. And I love when he says, there are more treasures than one for you in this city. Sometimes we get so focused on the thing that we need resolved that we don't see him. The work he's doing in all of the other things at that time.

[Dave Butler]

And the treasures that are right in front of us.

[Emily Freeman]

Yeah, and the treasures right in front of us. And I love when he says, I will order all things for your good as fast as you are able to receive them. And I'm just intrigued. I'm sure Joseph was like, well, I Want to pay that debt off tomorrow. But God's like, my will for you is good and I know what to do and I will send it as fast as what needs to happen.

[Dave Butler]

Yeah, interesting that he wants them to just sit in that problem for a minute. He's like, God's in no hurry to get him out of the problem because of the treasures that he will find in the midst of the problem.

[Emily Freeman]

And I think too, because of the sifting that was taking place and that sometimes God allows us to go through that sifting process and we're going to watch that happen. It's interesting because we come, we come out of this lesson on treasure. And I'm always so intrigued by how Joseph responded because he could have been like, no, this is why I came. This is what I'm doing. This is the most pressing concern for us. Other people can come back and worry about the people, but I'm going to worry about this. And you love that Joseph was like just humble and meek enough to be like, okay, if you don't want to worry about this thing that seems to be ruining everything, then I'll trust you on this one. And the interesting thing is we're going to watch treasure get in the way of several people during this period and priority and priority get in the way of what is happening. It's a great lead into section 112.

[Dave Butler]

Yeah. And let's catch you up with what happens in between because there's about a year of time in between section 111 and 112. When they get back from Massachusetts, they'll actually start a bank, which you may have heard of this before, the Kirtland Safety Society. They try to start a bank to try and like, you know, make money with investments and borrowing and all that money that can be made in a bank. They can't get a charter for it. So they start which is called an anti bank, which was super common back in the time. It's just like an investment company is what it was. Couple months after they start that bank, the bank fails. There is a national crisis. It's called the financial crisis of 1837, where about half of the banks in the whole United States closed their doors. And it affected them as well. It was really bad timing because about a month before it failed, there was already some grumblings among some of the people that were the leadership of the church that saying that Joseph was a fallen prophet. In fact, February, the month right before the bank failed, they met in the Kirtland Temple to try and decide who should be the next president and leader of the church. The only problem with that anti Joseph Smith meeting is they invited Brigham Young to it. And if I could just give anyone some advice, it would be, if you're going to have an anti Joseph Smith meeting, don't invite Brigham Young. There's some fun stories you can read in Saints about that, but so it just starts. When that fails, it just like creates a firestorm of everybody. Like, they lose their money, they are doubting what's happening with. With Joseph. There's grumbling in the leadership. There is rebellion in the leadership. It's powerful to me always that in the middle of this, like, it honestly is a crisis of a financial crisis and a faith crisis in Kirtland. And in the middle of that, there's this sweet story of Heber C. Kimball sitting in the Kirtland temple. He says, right by the table used for the sacrament. And Joseph coming up to him and saying, the Spirit whispers to me, let my servant Heber take a mission to England and open up the door of salvation unto that nation. That Joseph still, like all this business is happening, and he still knows God's treasure is people. And that's still my work. Like, he learned the lesson. And now, and Heber C. Kimball goes off on this mission to the British Isles, which will save the church. Essentially, by the time we get to Utah, there are more British Saints than there are Saints from the United States. Like, it infuses the church with this believing, faithful blood, and it really will save us.

[Emily Freeman]

And who had to sacrifice so much to get here that they weren't gonna give up on what they had begun.

[Dave Butler]

So that's just like a little snuck in there. Now, right after that, Thomas B. Marsh has been living in Missouri.

[Emily Freeman]

And let's remind everyone who Thomas B. Marsh is.

[Dave Butler]

Okay? He. We met him back just in the beginning. He's the one who. Who read 16 pages of the Book of Mormon, you remember, got a copy of right off, hot off the press, and was just in and has been a leader.

[Emily Freeman]

And he was. He was the one that was 16 pages and one month and then called on a mission, remember? And then he just jumps into this thing and he is. He's full go. He gets called as a member of the quorum of the Twelve in 1835. He serves with the Twelve Apostles who all go to serve that mission to the Eastern states. And then we get to July 1837. And it's interesting because this is the time when there is so much dissension going on in the church and the contention. And part of the reason for this blessing is the counsel that he receives in verse 12, where it says, and pray for thy brethren of the 12. Admonish them sharply for my name's sake, and let them be admonished for all their sins, and be ye faithful before me unto my name. So part of the charge Thomas has given at this time is you've gotta pull in all of these apostles and strengthen these things in this place. And that's kind of the call of this blessing that comes here.

[Dave Butler]

It's interesting, the date of it. July 23. Thomas B. Marsh hears grumblings from Kirtland. Three of the members of the 12 are involved in trying to overthrow Joseph. They're also involved in stealing and embezzling money from the bank, which is one of the reasons that it fails. Also, parley P. Pratt he meets on the way, and he is just like, I don't know what's happening, da, da, da. And he calls a meeting for July 24. But the day before, he goes to Joseph and says, does the Lord have any counsel for me for that meeting? Which is interesting, because I love that.

[Unidentified Female Host]

That'S how it starts.

[Dave Butler]

It's not necessarily how it's gonna end. But his first thought is, what's the Lord want me to do, tell me to do?

[Emily Freeman]

And it's awesome because the Lord gives him such specific counsel. And one thing we want you to watch, and this will be a spoiler alert, is he's gonna give this specific counsel, and Thomas is actually gonna end up going against every piece of this council. But it's interesting just to look at the Lord set this up for him because he sees what's coming. And this is a warning voice, not just to the apostles, but. Or not just to Thomas, but to everyone who's living in that time. He tells him in verse four, be of good cheer, which is so interesting because of what's gonna happen is in the end he's gonna get angry.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And.

[Emily Freeman]

And it's so interesting that the Lord is like Thomas, be of good cheer. That's what you need to do. In verse 5, he tells him, Contend for the church. In verse 6, he tells him, don't remove your house from this place. Don't move out of where we are. Stay in it, because I have a great work for you to do. In verse 10, he tells him, Be humble. In verse 11, he says a line that we love so much. Be not partial towards them in love above many others, but let thy love be for them. As for Thyself. So he's trying to teach him you've got to love everybody equally and these men that you're working with. And then in verse 15, such a telling piece of counsel, which is simply, rebel not against my servant Joseph. This is the counsel that is in 1:12. The Lord gives him this counsel.

[Dave Butler]

And just like this is probably gonna come up again and again. But I just think it's interesting that the Lord says, not rebel not against Joseph. He says, rebel not against my servant Joseph. Right. Cause it's not gonna be about Joseph. It's about the fact that it's the Lord working through Joseph. And I think he's gonna have a hard time reconciling that.

[Emily Freeman]

Yeah. So what happens is there is two cows. That's where the story is going to begin.

[Dave Butler]

Two cows, you said?

[Emily Freeman]

Yeah, two cows. And you're like, there is. Yes. And one of the cows is the Marsh's cow. And Thomas's wife finds a friend. They want to make really good cheese. So what they decide they're going to do is they're going to share the milk of those two cows. Because that's how. How you make the best cheese. And it's not just the milk, but it's something called the strippings. And the agreement was they would both give 100% of what they got when it was their turn to share. But Thomas's wife doesn't. Mrs. Marsh, wishing for better cheese, it tells us, kept back a portion of the strippings when it was her turn to give the cheese. And over time, it gets found out and the two women have a disagreement over it and they can't solve it on their own. So there ends up being a church court. And the church court rules in favor of the other woman. And so they appeal to the High Council. And the High Council says this is Mrs. Marsh's fault. And that makes Thomas mad. So he appeals to the First Presidency over these strippings is what happens. And the First Presidency finds Mrs. Marsh guilty. And they side with what the High Council decides. Joseph sides with the what the High Council decide. And Thomas is so mad that he ends up moving. Remember, that was one of the things he wasn't supposed to do. But he ends up. He leaves the church, and then he moves, and then he signs an affidavit. And this is how Joseph explains the affidavit. He says this Martin made an affidavit to the vilest slanders and lies that he could invent. He lied and swore falsely. And he was ready to take the Lives of his best friends. And that affidavit is just one of the series of domino effects that will lead to the extermination order from Governor Boggs in Missouri and a lot of.

[Dave Butler]

Suffering, a lot of death associated with it, too.

[Emily Freeman]

And then they end up leaving. And Thomas doesn't go. He stays for 18 years. He just kind of wanders from state to state. And then there gets a point where he says, I want to die in the church. And I love this. He says this, oh, if I could just see Joseph and talk with him and acknowledge my faults to him and get his forgiveness from him, then I would die happy. And you. You see this coming to himself, this turning. And he comes back and says to Brigham, he ends up coming back to Utah and says to Brigham, I want to come back, and would you have me back into the church? And Brigham tells him he can address a congregation of saints on Temple Square. And I just imagine that moment of him standing up there, because these are saints who would remember the extermination order. They are gonna remember the strippings and the excommunication and everything that he said about them and the walking across from Missouri in that pouring rain and on the riverbanks and everything that happened there. And he comes back, and he starts out by saying this, and we both are in love with this phrase. He talks about the Lord, and he says he loved me too much to let me go with without a whipping. And just talks about how hard the last 18 years of his life had been and that the Lord just kept trying to shake him and get him back.

[Dave Butler]

Yeah, even in that.

[Unidentified Female Host]

That section, if you want to go back to.

[Dave Butler]

We didn't show this. Verse 13. The Lord even tells him, after temptations and tribulations, I, the Lord, will feel after them. That's such a powerful image of him. Just like I'm going to keep reaching.

[Emily Freeman]

Yeah, I'm going to.

[Dave Butler]

After those who've turned, not just those who are lost, but. But those who have turned their back on me as well.

[Emily Freeman]

So good. And then he asked this question that is so interesting to me. He says this. I've thought to myself many times, how is it that a man like you who understands so much of the revelations of God, could fall away? Isn't that so interesting? And it's a question that we ask of those early church leaders also. How is it that someone with that much knowledge, with watching everything that was going on, with seeing the things that they saw and the visions that they saw and experiencing the things that they experienced, even In Kirtland, how is it that someone like that could fall away? And I think it's a question we could ask ourselves. He says to the people who are there, you should be careful because it could happen to you. And I just think that is so, so interesting when he says that. And then he gives three reasons for what caused him to fall away. And when I read these the first time, I remember thinking it sounds like the reason at the root of why every single person has eventually left. When you hear the stories. He says, first, do you want me.

[Unidentified Female Host]

To read the whole quote?

[Emily Freeman]

Read that whole entire quote?

[Dave Butler]

I mean, it's not too long and.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Then you can pull the things out. Yeah.

[Dave Butler]

He says, I became jealous of the prophet.

[Emily Freeman]

Oh, wait, you wanna start earlier? You wanna start right here?

[Unidentified Female Host]

Oh, you read it.

[Dave Butler]

You're okay.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Okay.

[Dave Butler]

I didn't know if you had the quote or not.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Okay.

[Emily Freeman]

He says, I have frequently wanted to know how my apostasy began. And I have come to the conclusion first that I must have lost the spirit of the Lord out of my heart. That's the first one. It is so good. And I think it's a good self check for us to say, are there times when I lose the spirit? Because that was his number one. That's where everything began, is in that moment. The next question is, how and when did you lose the spirit? He asks. And he says, I became jealous of the prophet. And then I saw double and overlooked everything that was right and spent all my time looking for the evil, which I think is number two. When you get to a point where all you are looking for is everything that is wrong, that's the second sign of apostasy. And then he says this. And then when the devil began to lead me, it was easy for the carnal mind to rise up, which is anger, jealousy and wrath. I could feel it within me. I felt angry and wrathful. And the spirit of the Lord being gone, as the scriptures say, I was blinded. And then listen how interesting this line is. I got mad and I wanted everyone else to be mad. Isn't that so interesting? I just think about those three things. First of all, I lost the spirit of the Lord. That's number one. Number two, I started looking for everything that was evil around me. And number three, I got mad and I wanted everyone else to be mad. We have a little spot on the study sheet where you can fill those in and just think about those. It's interesting because the Lord gives the antidote for that, right in Thomas's section, in section 1. 12. He says this. Inasmuch as they shall humble themselves before me and abide in my word and hearken to the voice of my spirit. There's the answer. Listen to my spirit. Get back into the word. Right. What is it that caught Martin's or Thomas's heart at the very beginning was those 16 pages. Just get back into the word and humble yourselves, and it will all be resolved with time. It's interesting because at the end of those 18 years, he says, when he's in that, when he's talking, he says, I learned the Lord could get along very well without me, and he has lost nothing by my falling out of the ranks. But, oh, what have I lost? And when he was done talking, Brigham Young asked for a vote of the whole congregation of who wanted to let Thomas back in. And I just. I can't help but think about that moment, that congregation, Brigham Young standing up there and Thomas Marsh standing up there, and those people looking at this man whose decisions that started with an argument over cow's milk caused so much pain in their lives and in what would happen for them. And it's interesting because the accounts all read that every hand was raised in welcoming him back in, and not a hand was raised in opposition. And I think there are two super important lessons from Thomas's story that we learn. And the first one, we like to call this sell the cow. If there's something in your life that is causing you to lose the spirit, to look for the evil that is around you, that is making you mad, just sell the cow.

[Dave Butler]

I wrote in my scriptures, sell the stupid cow. That makes it so much better, because sell the stupid cow.

[Emily Freeman]

Just sell the cow and move past that thing. Because if that's gonna be the tipping point, get rid of the tipping point, whatever it is, and just invest yourself back in fully. That's the first lesson. And I have just written at the bottom of mine, sell. Just sell the cow. It's so easy at the very beginning to solve whatever the problem is. But the second lesson that I think is really powerful in this is those saints who had been so hurt by that man, unanimously welcoming him back into the fold. And I think that's important. When we think about, would we be that quick to forgive and to welcome someone and to welcome back in? It's so important. We get so caught up in these apostasy stories. We get caught up in what was happening that was wrong. And I wanna get caught up also in the fact that everyone who wanted to come back was welcomed back, every single one and that's the type of church I want to be, is that kind of church.

[Dave Butler]

And maybe I'd add a third lesson onto that, too, which is it's interesting that all of the talk during the apostasy was about Joseph, Joseph, Joseph. When he comes back, it's all about the Lord, the Lord, the Lord. And when Thomas comes back, right when he comes back, it seems like he's like, oh, you were focused on the wrong thing, Treasure. On the wrong treasure. I was like, set your sights and your heart on the Lord and said, how did all those people unanimously forgive? There is no way unless they had their own hearts set on the Lord as well. And I just think that's a powerful lesson, too. And you see that with Heber C. Kimball and Brigham Young, the only two apostles who never turned their heel, they said against him. They said, during those hard times, we spent so many nights on our knees. And I think that was the key, that it was a connection with God and not with leadership.

[Emily Freeman]

There's two more stories we just want to end with quickly at the end. We can't be here in Far west without telling you both of these stories. One has to do with a man named David Patton. The people back then called him Captain Fearnaught, which you just love that that was his name. And there are just a few stories about him. But, oh, I wish we could look at all the stories of why those people would have called him Captain Fear not. What was it that he did that was so amazing for those people? He was 38 years old and a member of the Twelve Apostles also. He and Thomas were close companions in everything that they were doing.

[Dave Butler]

Yeah. Leadership here in the Missouri side of the church.

[Emily Freeman]

Yep. It tells us he witnessed apostasy here, everything that was going on. He actually struggled with some things during those Kirtland years, but he remained true to Joseph. That's something that we do know about David Patton. And there was a time when he said to Joseph, I love this church so much. I love everything so much, I want to die a martyr. And Joseph says to him, when a man of your faith ask the Lord for anything, he generally gets it. And that is going to end up proving to be true of David Patton of Captain Fearnaught. What happens is the mob takes a bunch of prisoners over by Crooked river, and he finds out about it. And at midnight one night, he gathers together a group of 75 men to go after these prisoners, and they go down by that river, and a shot is fired. And as soon as the shot is fired, and he. He just gives a shout for everybody to go. And it scares the mob. And the mob disperses. They all go everywhere they're going. And as they're running, one mobber stopped to catch his breath behind a tree and shoots and shoots David Patton in the stomach. And he will die that night from that wound. And we love what he says. Just as he is lying there, the very last words he says right before he dies, he says this. I feel that I have kept the faith. I have finished my course. And then he says to his wife, whatever else you do, oh, do not deny the faith. And I just love that contrast between he and Thomas Marsh and even in their marriage and in the way that they were going to do things, that he's like, I've done everything I could do for this church and for this cause. And that his very last words are to his wife, whatever else you do, oh, do not deny the faith we love. When you read, his section is in 1:13. Is that right?

[Unidentified Female Host]

114.

[Emily Freeman]

114. At the very end, there is just a line that we love there. This is a revelation that is given to him. And then it says this, Verily, thus saith the Lord, I'm in verse two, that inasmuch as there are those among you who deny my name, others shall be planted in. In their stead and receive their bishopric. Amen. And we just love this thought that in a time where so many were denying what was going on, that the Lord already was raising up people who would be planted in their steads, people who would be true to their faith, people who would finish the course, people who, no matter what else happened, would not deny the name of Christ. And we're gonna watch in this sifting process, process the people who deny and leave and the people who are planted in their stead.

[Dave Butler]

Yeah, it ends up being such a struggle that 10% of the church membership will leave during this and 33% of the leadership will leave. And, like, that took its toll. But remember that mission that Heber C. Kimball took over to England? He said, when I got off the boat, there was a banner floating above this store. And the banner said, truth will prevail. And he said, I took that as an omen and a sign. And there was so much reception of the gospel of Christ over there that now all of a sudden, there is this new energy to, like, do missionary work in England. And David Patton actually was called. He says, the Lord says, next spring, we want you to go, you know, over to England. He never gets to serve that mission, but some others do. And this section is not in our, like, grouping of verses here, but for this week. Yeah, for this week. But we have to just sneak over to it real quick here at the end in section 118, this is a list of a couple of members of the new members of the 12 who are gonna replace those who fell. Some of them you may know, John Taylor, Johnny Page, Wilford Woodruff, and Willard Richards. And he wants them. It says in section 118, I want you to take leave of the Saints. This is verse five from the city of Far west on the 26th day of April next, which will be April 1839. By the time you get to April 1839, the extermination order will have happened. Joseph will be in Liberty Jail and the Saints will all be gone from here all the way into Illinois already. And so.

[Unidentified Female Host]

But.

[Dave Butler]

So you've got this prophecy. I want you to leave from the Far West Temple site in a year from now, but in a year from then. It was a mess, and there was no way. It was all abandoned. In fact, Wilford Woodruff said this, that the mob said this. We swear by all the gods of eternity, if every other prophecy of Joseph is fulfilled, that one won't be. They were determined to prove him a fallen prophet by not letting the 12 leave from this site right here where we are right now on April 26, 1839. So this is awesome. When it gets close to that. Brigham gathers the 12 there in Quincy, Illinois, right at the beginning of April. And he says to him, what should we do? Do you think our good intentions are enough? And they all look at each other and they're like, no, the Lord commanded it. Let's do it. So they come back here. It is in the middle of the night. So under the COVID of night, they come here and they actually go and to this spot and they lay a cornerstone for the temple over there and dedicate the land. Wilford Woodruff will actually kneel on that cornerstone, and that is when he is ordained. An apostle is there on that night. And then why they decided to do this, I don't know. They decide to sing a hymn together. Even though they are being hunted and have a bounty on their head. They sing the hymn Adam on Diamond, which we'll talk about next lesson. Actually, they sing that hymn and then they decide, let's go. And as they walk out, they're with a guy. His name is Theodore Turley. This is the best part of the story, and he just can't help it. It is one in the morning, and he goes to his old friend Isaac Russell's house, who is now an apostate and one who has sworn that they won't fulfill, and knocks on the door, wakes up his wife. His wife comes to the door. She's like, well, Brother Turley, what are you doing here? She's like, is Isaac home? And then she says, yeah, he's here. And he's back in the corner. And he says, what are you doing? And he says, I just wanted to remind you what day it was. It's April 26, 1839. See ya. Right. Then he leaves, and he says he, like, throws down his hat. But it's just so neat that all these people, when you watch where their courage comes from, when you watch where their devotion and dedication comes from, it's because they said the Lord commanded it, so at all costs, let's do it. And that seems to be the power that keeps them in, that keeps them dedicated and devoted. It's the right treasure.

[Emily Freeman]

Yeah, it's the right treasure and the right perspective. It's the right priorities, right? That's what you start seeing all the way through, is that treasure and the. Just that priority, staying in the right place.

[Dave Butler]

If you want to follow along in everything we're doing, you can find us on Instagram, at Don't miss this study, at this Week's Grace, and @MrDaveButler.

[Grace Freeman]

And if you want to subscribe to the app or get our weekly newsletter, all of the information can be found@don'tmissthisstudy.com.

[Dave Butler]

See you next week.