Georges St-Pierre Reveals His Advice for Conor McGregor’s UFC Return and Talks the GSP Podcast

Summary

DOUBLE COVERAGE PODCAST — Georges St-Pierre Reveals His Advice for Conor McGregor’s UFC Return and Talks the GSP Podcast

Host: Mystic Zach
Guest: Georges St-Pierre (GSP)
Date: July 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features MMA legend Georges St-Pierre (GSP), who joins Mystic Zach to discuss a broad range of topics including his own new podcast, the mental challenges facing fighters in retirement, advice for Conor McGregor’s highly anticipated UFC return, the evolution of MMA, and crossover moments in combat sports like Jake Paul’s boxing career. The conversation is candid and thoughtful, offering deep insight into the mindset and career arc of top-level fighters. GSP also touches on his observations about athlete development, the growing options outside the UFC, and reflections on iconic matchups that never materialized.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

GSP Podcast: Inspiration and Purpose

[00:41–02:02]

• Inspiration for Starting the GSP Podcast:
  GSP likens hosting a podcast to “going back to school, but you choose the topics and the guests that you want to learn from.”
• Podcasts That Inspired GSP:
  He names Joe Rogan as a major influence for his curiosity-driven, open-minded approach:

  “I really admire what he does because he touched on topics… that no one wanted to talk about… there’s no shame in being curious…” [01:15]

Life After Retirement: Identity, Routine, and Staying Hungry

[02:11–04:36]

• Training for Longevity and Mental Health:
  GSP still trains regularly, emphasizing martial arts as therapy: “For me, it helps me be a better person. We all have [demons] in our heads and it allows me to canalize my negative energy.” [02:19]
• Navigating Post-Fight ‘Emptiness’:
  Even GSP struggled with the loss of the ‘high’ after fighting. He stresses setting new goals, embracing entrepreneurship, and staying “hungry.”
• The Importance of Continual Growth:

  “If you're satisfied and you sit, I think that’s when you might lose it… always look for better things.” [04:11]

Conor McGregor’s UFC Return: Advice from GSP

[04:36–06:58]

• Crucial Advice for McGregor:
  GSP draws direct parallels to his own comeback and stresses humility in preparation:

  “Get out of his comfort zone… don’t be the boss of your training camp. Let your trainer be the boss and tell you what to do.” [05:10] “When you reach a certain status… you’re sort of a boss. But you don’t want to be a boss while you’re training. You want to be like anybody else.” [05:43]

• Sacrifice and the Difficulty of Remaining Hungry:
  GSP references the Marvin Hagler ‘silk pajamas’ quote, illustrating how comfort can diminish drive.

  “It's very hard to do because once you have everything you want, it’s very hard. So he needs to willingly put himself back there…” [06:43]

Camp Dynamics and Evolving Preparation

[07:04–10:29]

• Bringing in New Sparring Partners:
  GSP shares how he’d fly in opponents with similar styles to potential adversaries, deliberately fostering discomfort to simulate the unpredictability of a fight:

  “The job of those guys is to give me hell… I was never afraid of doing it. A lot of guys… say, ‘Hey, bring new sparring partner.’ Yeah, but it costs money… I’m like, ‘Yeah, but it’s worth it.’” [09:45]

Rematch Mindset—Learning from Defeat

[11:31–15:37]

• Overcoming Early Losses:
  GSP breaks down his rematches with Matt Hughes and Matt Serra, focusing on the mental shift needed to turn defeat into victory:

  “The second time and I beat him, it’s not because I was… technically better… but it’s because mentally I was in a different place. I had confidence.” [12:24]

The Case of Justin Gaethje and Legacy

[14:01–17:48]

• On the Value of Retiring at the Top:
  GSP expresses his wish for Justin Gaethje to consider retirement after a career-defining win instead of “letting the sport retire you.” [14:01]

  “The opportunity that will come to you once you retire on top are huge… leave with the torch, man.” [14:24]

• Potential McGregor–Gaethje Matchup:
  If Conor returns victoriously, GSP thinks this fight “would be the fight to make… maybe at 155 or at a catchweight.” [17:04]

Max Holloway vs. Conor McGregor: Tactical Keys

[17:52–20:47]

• How Holloway Should Approach the Rematch:

  “Put a lot of pressure, focus on volume… a lot of fake… go third on him and put a lot of pressure… bring him in the deep waters.” [18:15]

• Conor’s Key to Victory:
  Control the distance, be a fast starter, and capitalize on early rounds.
• Significance of Weight Class:
  Both fighters are big for 170, so “no dehydration, which makes a big difference.” [20:43]

Evolution of Fighter Skillsets: Generalists vs Specialists

[23:57–32:39]

• Why GSP Became a ‘Generalist’:
  GSP credits his multi-sport background and focus on late specialization as key in becoming versatile—“Swiss Army knife” style.
• Technical Insight:

  “It’s my karate that helped me set up my takedowns. My wrestling helped me finish…” [28:31]

• MMA’s Evolution from Specialists to Generalists:
  Modern champions blend all techniques at a high level, e.g., Islam Makhachev, Jon Jones.

Peak Performers & Mental Preparation

[33:20–38:16]

• On High-Stakes Performance:

  “To be a champion in the sport is to be good when it counts, to be good when it matters the most.” [34:40]

• The Power of Visualization:

  “A lot of people… roll their eyes because it’s a little esoteric, but I think [visualization] helps a lot.” [35:17] “It all starts from an idea… you need to have the idea first… to make it happen in the real world, you need to make it happen up here [in your mind].” [37:08]

Reflections on Barriers, Goal Setting, and Growth

[38:16–39:48]

• Breaking Psychological Barriers:
  Referencing the explosion of double champions after McGregor and the four-minute mile analogy, GSP highlights the contagiousness of achievement.
• Goal Setting:

  “The danger in life is not to set your goal too high… it’s to set it too low and reach it.” (Paraphrasing Michelangelo) [39:48]

The State of Combat Sports: Growth, Competition, and Athlete Power

[40:16–43:14]

• Importance of Competing Promotions:
  GSP welcomes the rise of rival organizations for giving fighters options and leverage:

  “UFC has the monopoly… It’s important for the fighters to have other options.” [40:52]

• On Jake Paul’s Influence:
  GSP admires Paul’s willingness to put himself outside his comfort zone and train with the best, calling him “a prospect 100%” and:

  “He has the money and the resources… he’s willingly doing it. That’s why he’s so good… A lot of haters, but I respect a lot of what he does.” [43:20]

Super Fights That Never Happened & Cutting Weight in MMA

[46:58–50:33]

• Anderson Silva Super Fight:
  GSP explains the obstacles that prevented a catchweight super fight: contract disputes and no response from the UFC.
• Gameplan for Silva:

  “My plan would have been to use a lot of feint and fake… close the distance, put him down, use ground and pound.” [48:33]

• On Weight Cutting:
  Advocates for systems like ONE Championship to prevent extreme weight cutting.

Legendary Boxers: Usyk, Crawford, and the Generational Shift

[50:56–53:45]

• On Alexander Usyk:

  “I probably [sic] the best of all time or one of the best of all time… the way he moves and everything… the perfect model…” [51:11]

• Boxers Who Transcend Generations:
  GSP praises both Usyk and Terence Crawford, who “can stand toe to toe with any generation.” [53:54]

Comparing Eras in Sport: A Philosophical Take

[54:10–58:07]

• On the Evolution of Performance:
  While it’s impossible to definitively compare legends across eras, GSP believes training, knowledge, and technology make modern fighters more skilled:

  "As time goes by, fighters get better. The performance gets better because they have access to more knowledge and technology… Now the new generation can learn from me. That’s why I think they’re better than I was." [55:53]

• Legacy and Nostalgia:
  GSP acknowledges nostalgia but stands by continuous improvement in sports:

  “There are exceptions… but eventually, things get better.” [58:07]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On McGregor’s Training Mentality:

  “Don’t be the boss of your training camp. Let your trainer be the boss and tell you what to do.” – GSP [05:10]

• On Retirement:

  “Don’t let the sport retire you, but leave with the torch, man.” – GSP on Justin Gaethje [14:24]

• On Maximizing Growth:

  “The danger in life is not to set your goal too high and never be able to reach it, it’s to set it too low and reaching it.” – GSP (paraphrasing Michelangelo) [39:48]

• On Visualization and Mental Prep:

  “It all starts from an idea… you need to have the idea first… to make it happen in the real world, you need to make it happen up here [in your mind].” – GSP [37:08]

• On MMA’s Evolution:

  “UFC 1, everyone is a specialist only… now it seems like there’s such little specialists. Everyone's become a generalist.” – Mystic Zach [31:44]

• On Comparing Eras:

  “As time goes by, fighters get better… Not because they're better athletes, because Einstein said if I’ve seen furthers because I’m standing on shoulders of giants.” – GSP [55:53]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & GSP Podcast: [00:41–02:02]
• Training & Retirement Identity: [02:11–04:36]
• Conor McGregor’s Comeback Advice: [04:36–06:58]
• Sparring and Preparation Tactics: [07:04–10:29]
• Mindset in Rematches: [11:31–15:37]
• Legacy & Justin Gaethje: [14:01–17:48]
• Holloway vs. McGregor Analysis: [17:52–20:47]
• Evolution of Fighters & Skillsets: [23:57–32:39]
• Peak Performance & Visualization: [33:20–38:16]
• Combat Sports Industry & Jake Paul: [40:16–43:20]
• Super Fights, Weight Cutting: [46:58–50:33]
• Usyk, Crawford & Legendary Status: [50:56–53:45]
• Generational Comparisons: [54:10–58:07]

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Episode Tone

The conversation is friendly, reflective, and deeply respectful—marked by GSP’s trademark humility, insight, and blend of discipline and candor. Both host and guest are passionate students of sport and approach the topics with curiosity rather than bravado.

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the psychology and evolution of elite-level MMA, the shifting landscape of combat sports, and the keys to sustaining greatness inside and outside the cage.

Transcript

[A]

Conor McGregor finally going to return to the octagon. He's five years removed. What advice would you give him?

[B]

What I think he needs to do is.

[A]

What's up, guys? Mystic Zach here. Welcome back to double coverage. Today I'm joined by one of the greatest mixed martial artists to ever live, the one and only George St. Pierre, aka GSP. How are you doing, my man?

[B]

Doing fantastic, thank you.

[A]

So you just launched your own podcast, the GSP podcast. What inspired you to start that and get into the media game more?

[B]

Well, a lot of things. One thing that I found interesting, when you have a podcast, it's like going back to school, but you choose the topics and the guests that you want to learn from. So what I really enjoy is to meet different expert in different field, different topics that I'm passionate about and to talk about it, you know, and to learn from, from them.

[A]

What are some of the podcasts out there that inspired you to start your journey?

[B]

Well, a friend of mine, Joe Rogan, I really admire what he does because he, he touched on topics and subject that, especially in the beginning when he started his podcast, no one wanted to talk about it because the risk of being discredited and you know, I, I, it's kind of inspired me in a way that I, I, you know, I, I don't, I think you, there's no shame on being curious about something, you know what I mean? And, and the more you asking questions, it doesn't make you, you're not supposed to make you look dumb. You know, there's no, if you ask a question is because you want to know, you want to learn about something. And I think that's, it's a, it's, it's honorable, you know, to do, to ask questions that a lot of people

[A]

are afraid to ask to segue into more mixed martial arts. But your day to day, you're still in great shape.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What is your training schedule like? 9 years out of retirement, are you still constantly in the gym? Are you still training mixed martial arts? What are you doing dayto day?

[B]

I'm not, I'm not training to, to be world champion anymore. I'm training more for, you know, for longevity, but also because it's, for me, it's a therapy and I really enjoy martial art. I still go in the gym, roll, spar, wrestle with the guys, you know, and I plan on doing it as long as I, my body allow me to do so. But, but yeah, I consider myself a martial artist and a martial artist, I believe he trained because it's part of his life. I don't only train because I have a competition coming up. I don't have any competition coming up. But I love it because for me, it helps me be a better person. We all have in our heads and it allows me to canalize my negative energy.

[A]

That's exactly what a lot of fighters say is that. But a lot of them struggle with their identity post retirement when they don't have that fight to train for and those start to take over. I did.

[B]

I did too. Even though I even often publicly state that I really never really like to fight. But, you know, I prepared my retirement. But the thing is, when you fight, it's such a high, especially when you win. It's. There's nothing really to compare to it when you don't have that feeling anymore. You feel empty. But in order, in order to not derail, you need to find yourself other goals, other, you know, other other things that you, you want to do. And that's what I did. I'm more busy now than I used to be when I was competing because I'm more of a, I would say an entrepreneur now. I have different businesses that I'm involved with and that keeps me busy and I have, I still have goals and my goals are, you know, you know, I want to be somewhere better, you know, in the future than I am now, you know, And I think it's important to stay hungry because if you, if you're satisfied and you sit, I think that's when you might lose it. You know what I mean? And I think it's important to always strive and always look for better things.

[A]

It's important, absolutely. There's another guy who's got. We've seen his ups and downs, but he's finally going to return to the octagon. Conor McGregor, July 11th. He's one of the greatest we've ever seen, of course, in the cage, two time world champion, but out of the cage revolutionized the sport. We. When you talk about the most revolutionary fighters, he's there. I mean, he pushed the sports to bounds that we haven't seen before. What's the most important thing for him heading into this fight? He's five years removed from the octaon. He had a devastating. What advice would you give him?

[B]

Well, an advice I would give him is, well, I've. Not that I've done exactly the same, but I. When I came back, it was more than four years. So what I think he needs to do is to get out of his comfort zone to not be the boss of his training camp. Let your trainer be the boss and tell you what to do. Choose someone that you trust. He has an excellent coach Cavanagh in Ireland. Excellent coach. The guy is a genius. So let him, let him dictate what's the training camp to choose your partner to what to do. Because when you're in a fight, you don't decide what's going to happen. You just have to react accordingly to whatever the problem is. And so you're trying, while you're preparing for a. To recreate that environment, to put yourself outside your comfort zone. And I think it's very important because when you get money and you reach a certain status, you're sort of a boss. But you don't want to be a boss while you're training for a. You, you want to be, you know, like anybody else, like another number. And, you know, that's what he needs. And it's very hard to do because, you know, I'm sure he's very wealthy now and everything has to be. So he has to go back into that, that, that mental phase that you once were. He was very hungry, he wanted to climb, and he was ready to do anything that needed to be done to reach his goal. But once you have everything you want, it's very hard. So he needs to willingly put himself back there, and it takes a lot of sacrifice.

[A]

Marvin Hagler said it's tough to wake up and run in the morning when you wake up in silk pajamas.

[B]

It's true 100%. When I was in my prime in training camp, I have my regular training partner that I have that I train every day in a gym, but I purposely fly other guys with my coach. We planned it, who they want me to, you know, to bring in. And the job of those guys is to give me hell, you know, because they're not my friend. They're, they're. I mean, I'm nice to them and I really appreciate they help me. But I'm flying some different guys with different styles that are similar to my future opponent. So they bring me the similar kind of problems. It's impossible to find someone who's exactly the same way of your opponent because, you know, especially at that level, there's, you know, there's. Everyone is pretty, pretty unique. But you can find guys that have, that will bring you similar problem that you will face, and that's their job. And Faras used to tell them, say if you, you know, if, if you. Them, we'll, we'll pay you. We'll. I'LL stop the, the entire academy and praise you for hours. Like, you know what I mean? It was. And you, you willingly did that on purpose. Because he didn't want like some of the guys that we brought someday that were sort of star truck. Yeah, but they, they were young, very hungry guys, you know, they want to, you know, take your place.

[A]

Yeah, of course it was good.

[B]

You know, he did it purposely, but that's what I'm talking about when you, you need to go back in, in that, you know, and it's hard to do one once you're healthy, you're wealthy, you know.

[A]

Were you more nervous going to those sparring sessions with the brand new guys where you don't know exactly what they're going to give you more switched on, right?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

That.

[B]

And that's one of the way that you get outside of your comfort zone, because when you spar with a guy that you know and you train with every day, you kind of know what you're going to, what you're going to, what you're going to get. You know what I mean? Even though if he's better than you and even if you're great. Yeah, but, but you know, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When you go with a guy that

[A]

you don't know, when you spar with someone for lots of rounds, say over 100 rounds, it's almost like a dance. And you guys are both going back and forth. I'll tell you, I box. And I sparred Corey Spinks, world champion, five times. I couldn't touch him clean. Don't get me wrong, we sparred so much, I got so comfortable, I had no butterflies. It was just like routine. But if I go to a random gym in a weird place and there's a guy who doesn't even look that good, but I don't know him and he's twitchy, I'm way more switch on and nervous. I'm thinking, what if. Yeah, you know, totally different.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. And I think that's one of the problem with a lot of guys. They, it costs money because, you know, especially when you get more successful, when you have the mean to do it, you need to spend money to make money. And you have to see, see it like an investment you will invest on yourself. And I was never afraid of doing it. A lot of guys, sometimes I tell them what I just like, hey, bring new sparring partner. Yeah, but it costs money. The plane ticket, the hotel. And I'm like, yeah, but it's worth it. It is worth it. And I used to do that all the time. It's something that I put. I don't see much from the new generation that I'm training him and I think it's important.

[A]

What's up, guys? It's Mystic Zach, AKA your host of double coverage, AKA the biggest sports fan in the world. I personally endorse Fathead. Fathead is the absolute best place to get any sort of sports merchandise. I've been using their products all my life. Growing up, I had a Dallas Cowboys themed bedroom. I had a DEZ Bryan Fathead hanging above my bedroom wall. And now exclusively on Fathead, they have Knicks championship gear. They just pulled off the impossible, won one of the biggest championships in major sports by winning their first championship. 53 years. The city of New York's going crazy. Knicks fans are going crazy. Go to fathead.com using the link in our bio. Buy some Knicks merch, celebrate that championship win, or support any of your favorite teams in any of the major sports across the NFL, mlb, NHL, wherever. One of the greatest things about your career, and I know you don't like talk about yourself that much, but your only two losses, you suffered, you got it back. You know, you won the rematches. What was the mindset of you going into the Matt, Sarah and Matt Hughes rematches versus other fights and what's important for Max Holloway heading into this rematch because McGregor beat him before.

[B]

So the two losses that I have in my career are against Matt. Yeah, Matt's Matt Hughes and Matt's.

[A]

All right, you want to beat jsp, got to be named Matt.

[B]

You have to be named Matt. It's like my kryptonite. I don't know why. The first fight that I've lost against Matt Use at the time I was, you know, I was very hungry, but very young, very young. And. And Matt Hughes was a legend. It was like one of my. My idol. And I was going into that not to win. I was going to not lose. And even in the stare down, I remember I couldn't even look at him in the eyes. I was looking up the scene. I was like, man, what the hell I'm doing here? So that started and. And I didn't realize until I watched the video after I was doing pretty well until I got caught with a. And when I watched the replay of the video, I was like, man, I got all the skills to beat that guy and I was doing very well. But while I was in that, I didn't realize. I thought he was like, just like. Yeah, it's. When I watched A video. I said, I told myself, I said, man, if I get a rematch, I'll beat him, because now I know I can beat him. And it, when I, the second time and I beat him, it's not that much because I was on skill or technically better than I was the first time. I wasn't maybe a little bit, but it's because mentally I was in a different place. I had confidence. Then I became world champion. I was very young. Everybody told me at the time how good I was and everything. And my first title defense was against another Matt, Matt Serra. And Matt Serra was a veteran. You know, he had a, a career, very successful career, but he had certain ups and down and, and he, he, he, he was a, like a rocky story. He, he made it like, very close. He, he beat Chris L. In a very close decision title fight against me. And I remember the odds. I think it's probably still, to this day the biggest upset in UFC history or, or one of the biggest upset.

[A]

How incredible was that performance from Justin? Six to one. Underdog goes in. He's fought twice previously for the title. Came up short Both times. He's 37 years old. He's fighting at the, the most pressure that'll ever be on him against a guy that no one thought could be beaten and goes in, takes it to him from the first round.

[B]

Yeah, he was amazing. I, I, man, Justin is a, is a freaking warrior. It's unbelievable. I, I'm going to say something that most people will probably not agree with me, but I, I, I, I would love to see him retire. I'm a fan of Justin. I, I, I, I love the guy, he's man, but I hope if he, if he continues though, he continue and he's, you know, he, he retire when he's at, at his best, you know, like, don't let the sport retire you, but what an amazing ending of a career would it be? I know in the MMA culture, they want you to pass the torch, but leave with the torch, man. When you, you feel that you're going to make a lot of money, you're going to leave a lot of money on the table, but the, the opportunity that will come to you once you retire on top are huge. And nothing prevent you. Maybe in a few years or maybe a few months, if you change your mind, you, you make a comeback. But I, I, I, I, I hope he stay healthy because I, you know, when you talk to him, he's, he's very well, he's a well, very well spoken person, you know, but he's been involved in a lot of. A lot. It's crazy. I, I just hope he stay healthy and I'm a huge fan.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I would love to see him fight again, but as a human being, I would love to see him retire on top like this. Like what a great ending and a blueprint of a, of a carer that would be for the young, younger generation that look up to.

[A]

So inspiring. Not, not about how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you get back up. And he's done it over and over and over.

[B]

He's the embodiment of it.

[A]

Yeah. He's became a friend of mine. I got to train with him back in March. We sparred, did pretty good and. But I had a great time and saw his hard work and effort and very normal. The most modest guy. I mean you go to his house, you see the way he lives and you see kind of his mindset and lifestyle. It's so mundane. You wouldn't expect him to be the most, you know, so huge fan of him. And I agree with you. I think unless Conor McGregor wins, I would get out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, but the McGregor fight, it might be too much. That's generational money. You know, your grandkids and, and, and

[B]

I haven't thought of that. That's a good point. It's true. Him and Conor would be an incredible fight and, but however, I, I correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they're in the same weight class. I think Conor, right now Conor is fighting 170.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So, but if it's, if, if it's a fight that he wants, I think that would be the fight if he wants to.

[A]

He's got.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's big money. Yeah.

[A]

But I think that would be probably the second biggest fight in the sports history behind McGregor Khabib.

[B]

Yeah, probably. But I'm not sure if, if, let's say depend depending on what's going to happen next. If let's say Conor wins in a crazy fashion is aura will automatically, automatically come back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then Justin that just, you know, win one at the White House, you know, incredible underdog. Now that would be like, that would be the, the fight to make, to make an. Maybe at 155 or in a catch weight, whatever. That, that's, that would be the fight, right? Yeah. If not, I agree now with that. If Conor wins, especially if he wins in a good fashion, if I'm Justin, that's the Fight. I mean that's what he should do.

[A]

And he's going to be there. Yeah, because he's going to be.

[B]

Because what, what more can you get? Like, like he beat Ilas Toporia and now his next fight, if it's not Conor, that got back to his aura, like that's the only thing that could be bigger. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, I don't know.

[B]

I mean I'm just, we're just, yeah, we're just yeah.

[A]

Speculating. But I hope I love Max and, and actually yeah, I want to touch on this. What's important for Max because they fought previously. It was a long time ago. Max was so young, he wanted to do so many things after. But McGregor went on through a lot of things after as well. What's important for Max heading into this rematch. Do you. How does he get the last fight out of his mind? It's probably not that hard for him because he's accomplished so much.

[B]

But what's key for him, I think from Max perspective. I mean I'm a so called expert but I got it wrong all the time, you know, in my prediction. But I, the way I analyze this fight from, from what I've seen from both guys, if I'm from Max all the way perspective, I think, I think that he needs to, to put a lot of pressure to focus on volume. Conor is a striker. You don't want to go first with Conor. So a lot of fake make him throw his, his big left it, you know, his main weapon, make it make a troll and miss, you know, make it fake it and make a troll and go third on him and put a lot of pressure and, and focus on putting that pressure in a way that you, you want to, you know, bring him in the deep waters. I think that's Max Holloway's blueprint to beat Conor. Conor and on his side is to, you know, to control the distance, you know like to, to, to get enough space, you know where he's, you know, he likes to, to have a wide stance, you know, but is to, you know, to, to, to make Max commit, step into the, to put him where he wants him to be and use that.

[A]

Yeah. And he's such a fast starter.

[B]

He is. That's a problem when, when the, if the fights, the way I see it, if, if the fights, if the fight

[A]

is

[B]

a fight high pace that finish early on, it favors according to us, I think Conor. But if it goes in the deep waters, if it's a five round war, I think it favors Max.

[A]

What Conor's thinking, I'm sure is I saw Deport spinning so many fights more than Conor. I mean, no one's had more time in the octagon than him. It's one weight class up. He's going to have his power. That's got to be Connor's game plan, in my opinion. Yeah, But I don't think he's going to try to grapple him like Oliveira did, or I think he's going to.

[B]

They're both very big for their weight classes that they fought previously and now they're fighting on 170. People don't know that, but Max soloise is big. Big guy too. So I don't know which one who's the biggest, naturally, but I know Max Eloise is very big and Conor obviously is big because he made the, the movie Roadhouse. We saw two Connors at this.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So, so I, I, I, I don't know who it will favor, the fact that they fight at 170, but they both big guys. Yeah.

[A]

They'll both be fully hydrated. Right. So, you know, no dehydration, which makes a big difference.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it would be. I'm gonna watch that fight. I'm really looking.

[A]

Are you going to it?

[B]

I'm not sure yet. Probably. I'm not, I'm not sure yet. I depend on my upcoming schedule. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But it's an exciting one. How would you rank the UFC in the history of the UFC's events?

[B]

It's one of the best ever. I mean, it's very unique. I don't think we'll ever see that happen again. And also, all the fights were like.

[A]

All of them.

[B]

I think so, right?

[A]

Yeah, every single one. First time. It was true.

[B]

It was unbelievable.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Another fight that happened, your trainer's brother fought Sean o'. Malley.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Tough fight. Yeah. Sean looked great and obviously he had, you know, Zahabi's got to go back to the lab for Zahabi, going back to his training camp, and he's obviously got a great team around him. What's important for him to keep going and not let this affect him in the future.

[B]

Well, he needs to learn from what went wrong and, you know, and not repeat the same mistake again. I don't know what's going to be his next fight. I think they he was asked to headline a card in Canada, I think, for October. I'm not sure what's going to be his decision. You know, he needs some time off, you know, for sure. You know, it's a lot of spiring, a lot of preparation. Plus you gotta, you know, you gotta probably in that fight. But yeah, you need to take some time off.

[A]

People say after a fight like that, where it's not too close from, you know, bell to bell, oh, a rematch, we never need to see it. It can never happen. You don't have a chance. But then we see Petr Yan vs Merab Murab. Dominated every second of that first fight. I mean, it was like 50 to 43. Everyone said, oh my God, this was such a blowout, I never want to see it again. And they fight a few years later, everyone counts Yan out and he beats him. Yeah, that's the beauty of this sport.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's the, the ability to adapt, how good you are to adapt to a certain problem. You know, there's fighters that are, I'm one of them. But by the way, that I'm always been very good in rematches because I'm lucky. I have a great team. I'm very good, I have at analyzing and transforming myself into the perfect nemesis of my opponent. And this has to do with the ability to adapt. When you fight a guy for the first time sometime you expect certain things, but you found out quickly, always that he's never as good as you thought and he's never as bad as you wish. He's always different. Yeah, but the second time you fight him, you know, he might have changed since the previous time. But you have a better idea of what you're going up against.

[A]

Absolutely. And I think your biggest advantage was the fact that you were a Swiss army knife, where you had every discipline and you had mastered martial arts to a certain degree. There's only a few guys, in my opinion, who have done that. You Mighty Mouse, Shawn Jones. There's a few guys who can kind of take it anywhere. How do you as a 19 year old, get into wrestling and become that high level of a. We don't see that in the wrestling room. It's always guys who start at a very young age, they're bred to wrestle when they're very young, especially usually in an American program. But now we got everyone in Chechnya and Russia and all that too. But how do you, as an adult, as a karate practitioner, take up wrestling and have the mentality to get that good and then use that throughout your career?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I was always very good in sports, very good to adapt. I started karate when I was nine years old as a self defense. It quickly turned into a passion and later on, that's how I earned a living. But I, I, When I was 9 to up to maybe 16, I was doing karate maybe twice a week only, you know, an hour, an hour class twice a week and. But I was playing other sports, hockey, you know, track, basketball. I was always doing sports. And there's a lot of studies. It might seems surprising to a lot of people. There's a lot of study that came out recently because a lot of people wonder, hey, how which discipline should I put my kid, my kids into if I want to make him a great athlete? And I think the what it show, what the data show is that it's better at a young age to do different things and to specialize later on in your life. So while a lot of people see that as a surprise, oh, you started so late, how come you become so good? I think it's the most common theme among champions. Cyril Gan, who's the heavyweight champion, started martial arts late. Yeah, he was a basketball, he was playing basketball, soccer. I think it's something very common. Most people think that most champion start their sport very young. Maybe they get initiated young in their sport, but they didn't start specialized young. There's of course a few exception like Tiger Woods. You know, there's guys that are except exception. But most of champions, I think the data supported, they start specialized very late in their life. And there's reason why it happened, I think is because when you start very young, we all have a windows. You know, if, if you, if you do the same movement pattern over and over again at one point, doing sport is healthy, but doing sport to the elite level is not. So your body break down faster. So you have a certain window in which you want to be at and you want to keep that window while you're in your prime age, which is probably in your 20s or early 30s. So when you specialize and I mean you could start specializing late and you're a teenager, but when you get into the elite level in your 20s and 30s, that's when is your best bet to be to earn a living out of it.

[A]

Yeah. There's a very famous story in American football. There's a quarterback named Todd Marinovich and his dad came out, he was a football player as well. He said, I have the best plan for my son. He was five years old, his entire life's gonna be dedicated to football. He had a special diet, routine, schedule. He was never allowed to do anything, couldn't party, couldn't have a girlfriend, nothing. He had to train, train, train, train. Train. And by the time he got to college and he got away from his father, he was the best quarterback in the country. Got addicted to drugs, partying, was doing everything because of how much it was forced on him. And then it was an NFL pick. And I mean, he's recovered now, he's a painter, he's on these great things. But he, he flamed out because of all the drug problems that came with that. And it was just because he was pushed on him so much from a young age. What I meant more so with you is just I see the grapplers that can pick up the striking, like Justin Gaethje, college wrestler. Rashad Evans, college wrestler. It's not usually the karate guys who get so good at grappling. It seems harder to pick up wrestling specifically at a later age. Usually they're good enough to defend it, but they don't use it as a weapon.

[B]

I, I, I was very lucky. I, at the Montreal Wrestling Club, I, I had a lot of mentors that took me underneath their wings and. But one thing I, I have to explain is that take down in MMA is different than take down in wrestling. In wrestling is a lot of hand has to do with end fighting, which is very specialized in wrestling. In mma, you can use chain wrestling like Khabib, like you drag your opponent to defense and then you chain wrestle your way to a takedown. Or you can do mostly like what I did. I use a lot of proactive and reactive takedown from the center of the octagon, from a distance, because I'm, I'm very explosive. So that was my, my God gift, I would say. So I was using those proactive. So which proactive is when I initiate the takedown, I create a distraction and then I go, I shoot to the legs, you know, Proactive is when I bait my opponent to come strike me and in the timing, I go for it. So that was more my thing. And because I was coming from a karate background, karate is a striking sport. Mostly I was able to identify the cues and to know what is coming so I could time the takedown perfectly. So in a way, it's my karate that helped me set up my takedown. My wrestling helped me finish that takedown.

[A]

If, you know, if you, yeah, it's just so like Wonder Boy Thompson, he's so incredible at karate and he got such good defensive wrestling that the guys couldn't take him down. He could use his karate, but you don't see him taking guys down. You know, it's just totally different. Usually that's and then you see wrestlers who never want to wrestle, they only want to strike. Like Dan Henderson, Justin Gaethje. These guys are wild. They don't have any interest in wrestling. They just want to.

[B]

Yeah, I think they. I think the key. I mean, there's no perfect formula. There's the specialists and the generalists. There's like, I. I would call myself more a generalist. You know, I'm not the best striker. I'm very good in striker, but I'm not the best. I'm very good in grappling. I'm not the best, but I'm very good everywhere. And there's also the specialists that are ex. They're the best at one particular thing, but they lack a little bit in others. But because they're able to keep the fight where they're strong, that's how they become successful. There's prongs and cons and both style. But I always found that if you're a generalist, it gives you more option. Yeah. Because you can transform yourself and become the perfect nemesis to your opponent, which is not the case. If you're a specialist, you don't have that option. You just have to make sure you keep the fight where you're strong. And that could limit your way of winning a fight if you face a problem that you can't solve.

[A]

Well, the sport's come so far. UFC 1, everyone is a specialist only. And then Hoist Gracie won as the jiu jitsu practitioner, but now it seems like there's such little specialists. Everyone's become a generalist. Look at Islam Makhachev.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, how incredible are his skills?

[B]

Yeah, I would say he's now a generalist. He's a specialist. We all know what his end games end game is, but remember Volkanovsky? So in a way, he's a generalist, too. So, so that's the key, you know, like, you want to become very good everywhere, you know, Like, Jon Jones used to be mostly a very good wrestler. Used to troll people, and now he became one of the best striker. So that's the goal, you know, as you progress, you. You want to make sure that your. Your weaknesses become strength.

[A]

He would strike with his. The. His don't talk about we doing the clinch. Jon Jones. Oh, yeah. And.

[B]

And that the hard thing for his opponent is that Jon Jones has a reach advantage. So most of them have in their game plan. I'm sure they were like, oh, I'm going to close the distance on. But Jones is like an amazing fighter in close Range because he has those, he's as, as close as a perfect fighter as it as you can find. You know, is basically like the perfect physique, perfect athlete, incredible fighting IQ is unbelievable.

[A]

He's so great. And I think that even in recent times to people have grown up watching him like Cyril gone where I think they find themselves like I can't believe I'm fighting Jon Jones. And they're almost watching him instead of being in the fight. Yeah, like he psychs guys out before the fight starts.

[B]

Yeah, I mean there it's, it's part of the, the mind game, you know what I mean? He's just Jon. I, I found that looking at Jon Jones fight, he always been better when there's more at stake. When he fought guys that they're, you know, he's supposed to win, you know, easily. I don't know if it's a mental thing or a preparation issue for, but I always found that the, the, the more he has to lose like the Daniel Cormier was a question of honor for him. Like you know, like a Cyril Gan. He was like coming back from you know, like every, like every way for the first time. The more, the bigger the fight is, the more stressful it is, the better he perform the fight that he you know, like is highly favorite. You know, like, like I found that, you know, maybe that's, that's why he's so good. You know. To be a champion in the sport is to be good when it count, to be good when it matter. A lot of guys are good in the gym, but to be champion is you need to be good when it matters the most. And yeah, Jon Jones is the embodiment

[A]

of that big time performers and it's in every sport, you know, even American football, we cover it all. But like they coast in the regular season. And then Eli Manning, I don't know, you're familiar with American football, but this guy, he was average in the regular season, very average through a lot of interceptions. But twice in the playoffs he pulls off the most miraculous runs in the history of the sport. He has the most big time throws completed. It's inexplainable. Yeah, the, the, the flip that switches for him when the games are tough.

[B]

Yeah, he rises to the occasion.

[A]

Yeah, 100%. You know, it's like a mental thing that you almost can't comprehend as a normal, as a civilian.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. And then I think a lot of it has to do with the preparation. There's different kind of preparation. There's the physical preparation, you know, that you, you put yourself through, you know, the, the hard work that you do in the gym, like that's, you know, that physic, physically, are you in shape, are you injury free? I. You know what I mean? And, and technically, you know, your stuff, your knowledge, tactically, your preparation, everything is physical, like it, you know, but there's also the mental preparation that has to do with visualization, you know, imagery, stuff that you need to do. I believe, I believe strongly in that. A lot of people, sometimes they roll their eyes because it's a little bit like, esoteric, but I think helps a lot. And it's something that can make a big difference between a guy that going to crumble under the pressure, between a guy that going to make it, because the guy that gonna crumble is because he didn't work on it. The guy that rised to the occasion, maybe he thought of it, he felt it before he visualized it. So when it happened, it feels to him like it's not the first time that it happened. So he has confidence in himself.

[A]

Yeah. A good friend of mine, I was with him for his training camps early on. Jake Paul, he's fighting these huge fights. So much pressure on his shoulders. Half the training camp is working on his mental. He's this guy, and he's walking around, he's visualizing doing his breath work, and he believed it so much to the point where he got to the fight and he was just living what he had already seen in his head a million times. That's what no one understood that was outside. They're thinking, this kid has to be so scared. He comes from YouTube, and now he's fighting the greatest UFC fighters of all time. But he just had already won in his head, so it was like nothing for him to go out there, and that was his biggest advantage.

[B]

A lot of people, they ask me, how come something that is in your head can become real? Like, it doesn't make sense. The best way I can explain it is think about anything. Like a room, this room, someone had to create it first in their head. Maybe it's multiple people that created, and when it merges all together, they. That idea of this room, the carpet, the. The color of the walls, this became unified and, and, and they were able to. It was able to be materialized. That's how you create something, you know, from scratch. It first started as an idea, you know, something that does not exist material, materialistically, but it exists in your mind. I think it's the same thing in sport Performance, you need to have the idea first, your goal, your dream to make it, to materialize. In order to materialize in the real world, you need to make it happen up here and then it materializes in the real world.

[A]

Barriers get broken all the time. If someone would have told you, beginning your career, someone would become a world champion, two different weight classes at the same time, you can't do. They won't even let you. And then McGregor does it, and then all of a sudden you get a rush of double champions because they saw that it can be achieved and everyone sees that. They said no one could run a four minute mile. Yeah. One guy beats it, 19 more the next day. Right. So that's just how it goes. Once barriers get broken, then people see it. They can visualize it right in front of them. Then you can achieve it.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. That's the best way I can explain it. It all starts from an idea or combine ideas from different individuals and then you can materialize it. I think that's something that is very powerful, that most champions, they start believing and acting like champions before they became champions. Look at Usain Boat, look at Jordan, look at all the great champions in sports. And it's something that I've learned from them. And I try to replicate in, in my career.

[A]

I try to keep. People ask me about things. Years from now. I go, I, I can't. I'm not gonna have the time. You know, I'm gonna be, I can't take that risk. I'm gonna be too big and whatever in my space. And they go, you're not that big. I go, I'm gonna be the biggest. So I'm preparing for that. There's no other reality I live in. I'm gonna be at the top. There's no other way you can put it to me that I'm not gonna be there. What if this doesn't happen? Then I'll get over and I'll break that barrier and I'll keep going.

[B]

I think it's Michelangelo who says, the danger in life, I might screw it up, but basically he says the danger in life is not to set your goal too high and never be able to reach it, is to set it too low and reaching it. Because once you've done that, then after that you have nothing else that you want to improve. So I think there's nothing wrong to set your goals very high.

[A]

What are your thoughts on the current state of combat sports? Obviously, the ufc, the biggest player, Slow boxing, Zufa boxing, karate, combat, Raf. We're Almost could be hitting a golden era. Netflix, mma. What are your thoughts on everything? What are, what have been some of your favorites, maybe outside of the ufc?

[B]

Oh, I, I love that. The fact that there's other organization rising competing with ufc. It's very important, especially for, for the athletes that. Because the UFC has the monopole, the. The monopoly.

[A]

Monopoly.

[B]

The UFC has the monopoly. So it's important for the performer, for the fighters that they have other options. The industry of mixed martial art is very, very unique. You know, like, if you play hockey, you have different teams that you can go, you know, American football, same thing soccer, you know, but in ufc. UFC is the most prestigious organization in mixed martial art. And they have a power, you know, and it's not good for the fighters that if they don't have other options, it's always better for them from their perspective, for the fighters that if the things doesn't work well for the, in the ufc, they can go somewhere else. And it's important, you know, I will always support the fighters because I was a fighter. So in my perspective, I think it's a good thing. I'm a big fan of all those other organization, like, you know, like Raf. I love to watch it sometimes, you know, all the. Jake Paul's promotion on Netflix and I love the show. It's entertainment.

[A]

Do you think they could be a legit competitor?

[B]

There's different form of entertainment. Like, for example, if you see a certain one celebrity fighting another celebrity, you're gonna tune in because you want to know what's going to happen. It's entertainment, but it's not because you want to see who's the best fighter in the world, you know what I mean? Or the best boxer in the world. If I want to see who's the best boxer in the world, I'm gonna watch Alexander Usyk, of course, next fight against whoever it is to see, you know, was the best, because I think he's the best. But it's all a form of entertainment. And I'm not against that model of entertainment. I think it's genius. I think, for example, like, what Jake Paul has created is, is genius. Even though, like, you know, we say, you know, you want to see who's the best in the world, like maybe one day he's going to, he's going to knock at the door and for a title title fight, man, he went against Anthony Joshua, as in every way, that is like a ballsy move. I think he, I think it would be interesting if he, you know, from. In his weight class if he can, you know, climb maybe the rank and go for a title fight, I, I, I, I think it's doable. I think he can do it.

[A]

I couldn't agree more. Yeah, I, I call him a cruiserweight prospect. People are like, you're crazy.

[B]

He's a prospect 100%. He trains behind, behind that, that Persona that he is, the, the YouTube. Because I have, I've went to what is Puerto Rico.

[A]

Oh, you did?

[B]

Yes, yes. I've trained there many times with John Danar in jiu jitsu, but I've, I've met him there. He has an incredible team. Like, he may eat. He trained with the best, the best trainer, the best, you know, aspiring partner, my friend Jean Pascal.

[A]

I was there for that.

[B]

Yeah. So, so he's willing to put himself, even though he's very wealthy, he's willing to put himself outside of his comfort zone in order to improve and to be the best. And he has the money and the resources to do it, and he's willingly doing it. That's why he's so good. A lot of haters, but I respect a lot of what he does. I think it's entertainment at his best, and I wish him the best of luck in this journey.

[A]

I've said it. If he continues on this journey, I think he's going to become cruiserweight champion.

[B]

Yeah. The only danger for someone of his stature because he, he has access to pretty much everything he want is to, to fall into, you know, like freaking, like the, the trap of life, you know, the. Me too. That, this, that, like the, if he stay away from that and he focus on, you know, what, what needs to be done, I think he can do it.

[A]

Yeah. I first got acquainted with him, I was there for Logan's training camp and he was just starting getting out of fight, but he was working so hard and he didn't have a trainer. He was sparring tough and he was just like, had the willingness to learn and improve without any help. And I said, you know, you have all the characteristics of a potential pro boxer. You should really take it serious. Then he had his first pro fight and I was there in his second, his third, his fourth, his fifth. And then as it was going, he could see it, you know, at first he told my friend, the hypnotist, he goes, I'm going to be the best YouTube boxer. He goes, no, you're not. You're going to be the best professional boxer. Get out of that mode. Start calling out the professionals because you're going to get there and that's what broke the mold and got him to where he's at today and to see his journey through hard work and dedication. He's tough. Yeah, he's nails.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

He has that toughness that you need.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

God given. You wouldn't think someone from his background would have that, you know, in his stardom and whatever and he shouldn't. But he's got this chip on his shoulder from everyone doubting him and talking so much.

[B]

They, they, they first try to, to laugh at him, then they tried to ignore him and all that. Nobody, nobody laugh. Now it's, he's there, you know, when I, he's, he's a force to.

[A]

He beat Anderson Silva.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Tyrone Woodley, you know, like. Yeah, it's, it's a. Boxing and, but it's, he did it and he lost that fight, but he was, it was still a little bit competitive. It was competitive.

[A]

You could see what Jake was thinking, like if I land that, you know, you know, I can do the impossible. He called David versus Goliath.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It could have happened, you know, but you know, it didn't go his way. But I respect that that he did took the risk, you know, it takes a lot of courage, you know, and

[A]

this, I say Anderson Silva because he beat Chavez in boxing and Silva looked up to Roy Jones Jr. For a long time. If he had gone into boxing rather than martial arts, I think he would have been a world champion. Yeah, could be because he has that acumen and the skills and just the athleticism to do anything in martial arts, combat sports, anything. You spoke about this recently. I don't want to beat it at horse, but you almost had a super fight with Anderson Silva. One way class up. I saw you breaking down how it went. How do you think that fight would have gone if you had a crystal ball?

[B]

If it happened when we were in

[A]

our prime, how were you visualizing it when that fight was being talked about in your guys prime?

[B]

Well, from, from my perspective, if that fight would ever happen, it would have been in a. Because at the time I had a lot of competition in my weight class. He had a lot of, of competition in his weight class. And I knew that if I would have take that fight, it would be outside of my line, would have forced me to perhaps, you know, go outside and then I would need to go back to my weight class. So at the time we, we, when it was asked, it was, it was talked about once in with the ufc, we gave them the request. We wanted to, to be compensating with a special contract for that fight outside of our existing contract. That was one thing we wanted to be in a. How do you say, a weight class that is a catch weight. I think it was 180. 180. And we wanted to have implement. Implementing that was the tree condition. And once we gave our condition, they never get back to us. So that's why it never materialized. But the way I was, if the fight would. Would ever happen, of course, there's no secret. Anderson Silver was like a. Fighting like the Matrix was a very good striker. So my, my, my plan would have been to use a lot of faint and fake to, with a lot of forward pressure to close the distance to put him down and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To use ground and pound and you know, that would have been my, like

[A]

with Chelsea the first fight.

[B]

A little bit.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, from my perspective and I'm sure, from his perspective, I'm sure he has a different game plan that, that he see himself winning that fight. So, so that's the thing. We will never know.

[A]

They never go for the catch weights, the ufc. I don't know why. I would love that. You know, you and Khabib was the other one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That didn't get made.

[B]

I, I know, I know Anderson. Anderson fought in Pride at 170, but later in his career got very big. And I don't know if he could have made 170 when he was late later in his career.

[A]

205. And James Irvin in like the first round at 205. Forrest Griffin.

[B]

Yeah. So that, that for that reason, I think. Yeah. And Stephen Bonner as well. So he was very big. Knowing he was, it was like very, like he had maybe something like 30, 30, 40 pounds over. Over me, you know, because I was not a big weight cutter. I was like, I have a very large frame, but I'm not thick. You know, like, I, I a very long reach. But I'm, I'm not someone who has like in terms of thickness and also. So people have a misconception that I lose a lot of weight. I never did. I walk around 185, 186 pounds and I got like 15 to 16 pounds to make weight, which especially nowadays fighters at 170, they, they're close to 200.

[A]

Look at Michael Morales.

[B]

They're big. They're big guys.

[A]

This guy's like it was he 210?

[B]

Yeah, they're very big. There's guys in my era too, that were very big, but at the time I was fighting in my prime, the win was the evening of the day

[A]

before they need to implement like a similar system to one championship.

[B]

Exactly. So, you know, one of the. So exactly. That was. I think the best system to prevent. Hopefully will never happen, you know.

[A]

Yeah. And some of these guys how Pereira made 185. McGregor used to make 145. I want to touch back on a name that you brought up earlier. Alexander Usyk. I call him the master of boxing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I got to spend some time with him. And he's an incredible champion. Undefeated. He just relinquished all his titles. He said, I have one last dance. What do you think about him and his fighting and kind of how he is as a boxer?

[B]

I probably the best of all time or one of the best of all time. It's just unbelievable. And he was not an heavyweight. I think he was light, like cruiserweight. It was cruiserweight. And unbelievable. Like the way he moves and everything is. If you want to learn about boxing, he's the perfect model to. To mold yourself after. You know. It's just unbelievable.

[A]

We need to get him on your podcast.

[B]

Would love to. Yeah.

[A]

100% USYK on podcast GSP. Let's make it happen.

[B]

I'm a huge fan of it, obviously.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Absolutely. To do what he did at cruiserweight against great fighters, Gassiev and Michael Hunter, then move up to heavyweight. And when he first moved up, there were so many skeptics. And what's crazy is his manager Igis said he was going to be the undisputed world championship, world heavyweight champion. And everyone thought he was crazy. And actually when he was negotiating certain contracts for Alexander, he would say he would put in a clause that dictates he gets a certain amount if he becomes undisputed heavyweight champ. When he first moved up and they thought, oh, he's crazy, it's not going to happen anyway, so they would put it in and then they cashed in when he beat Tyson Fury.

[B]

Good for him, you know, very happy. This is a very good and powerful underdog story. It's. It's a. It's good. It inspire people. It's amazing.

[A]

It. To do what he did against Joshua twice and Fury twice. I mean, the difference between him and Fury is like night and day.

[B]

Oh, yeah. You know, he's just an incredible athlete. Like, he's. He's another one that I just hope he's gonna. When time comes. I mean, he's in his prime now. He, you know, sky is the limit. But when time comes, he said one more fight. Oh yeah, one more.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I wonder who will be maybe the Rico rematch. Did you get a chance to watch that fight?

[B]

Oh yeah, that one was. Yeah, the Rico. Yeah. I think he did very well.

[A]

He did excellent.

[B]

I think he did very well. He surprised a lot of people. Like, I've watched the fight, as a fan, I've not watched it, I didn't score it. But I think in a rematch, I don't know if it's. I don't want to make any excuses. I wonder if you train like, prepare himself 100% for that fight. It could be also the fact that Rico has a weird style, you know, because he's coming from a kickboxing background, you know, that would be very interesting to see a rematch.

[A]

I think it'd be great. Yeah. And that'd be a great final send off.

[B]

100%. 100%. And if he wins that, you know, is it go back, go to the, get out under the sunset, you know,

[A]

Straight to the hall of Fame.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And Terence Crawford just retired, undefeated as well. Straight to the hall of Fame.

[B]

Terence Crawford is another one I think is best. Pound for pound, like, it's unbelievable.

[A]

Those are the two best of this generation.

[B]

100%. 100%.

[A]

And the two of them are the two guys who I think can stand toe to toe with any generation. You know, Crawford can go against Sugar Ray Leonard and Tommy, all these guys, Usyk can go against, I don't want to. But Ali and Tyson, all these guys, you can see them fighting, you know.

[B]

Well, there's a thing in combat sport, we always compare that guy versus that guy. For example, who would have won between Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson and then we put Usik in the mix. Same thing in mma. It's, it's only speculative because we have no way of knowing for sure. But if you look at other sports, for an example like 100 meter, we know that Usain boat, the race that he, that he ran and beat the world record was the fastest race ever. We know that other sport where we can measure the performance, the performance tend to be better as time goes by. But in combat sport, we have this thing that for some reason sometimes we stay. We always say, oh, this guy will kick everyone else. Which I think is wrong. And it's not appealing to me to say that because now I'm retired. And yeah, you know, a lot of guys, their pride, they want to be remembered. But I lean towards the theory that, I mean, it's a theory, but it's measurable in Other sport, but not measurable in combat sport. But I think as time goes by, fighters get better. I mean the performance get better. I don't think that the person is better. I think their performance get better because they have access to more knowledge and technology. When I wanted to learn Jiu jitsu and I was 19 years old, 18 years old, I needed to drive to New York, eight hours drive from Montreal, get physically in a class and learn it from, you know, the, the Hanzo Gracies. Now I can, you know, grab my phone and learn it in two seconds. So the access of knowledge and technology that I have now is so much better than, than I had at the time. That's why I think fighters would be better if you would have put them against an old timer. Most of the time, not always, but most of the time there's exception not because they're better athletes, because Einstein said if I've seen furthers because I'm standing on shoulders of Giant. The same thing for me when I was in my prime. I've learned from my predecessor, Hoyce, Gracie, Mark Coleman, Mark Kerr, those guys that were beast and I've learned from them and now the new generation can learn from me. That's why I think they're better than what I was.

[A]

There's a good chance like Islam Makachev beats anyone ever right now?

[B]

Probably.

[A]

Yeah, probably.

[B]

I would think so. You know, it logically, it's. I would say so.

[A]

His skill level is almost like unfathomable in each discipline. It like almost shouldn't be human, but it's almost like he's a machine trained to fight. His boxing, his kicking, his grappling, his submissions.

[B]

And as good as he is, maybe in two decades there will be a young guy and not maybe there will be another guy that will be better than any one of them that we have today. And that's how it goes.

[A]

And I'm going to tell my son that Islam would kick his ass. But it's every sport. It's not even just basketball. Michael Jordan will chain my grandpa Bill Russell, the greatest player ever. Yeah, grandpa. He couldn't shoot threes. He couldn't do anything. He couldn't score that much. He was the greatest ever. Not even great.

[B]

It's not, you know, yeah, it's nostalgia and it's appealing for guys like me that people think that. And it's very flatter that I'm very flattered. And when somebody, they say something like this about me or. But the truth is as time goes by, things get better.

[A]

Yeah, it's sports, music, everything everyone loves when they were a kid, what they were watching.

[B]

I believe so. Yeah.

[A]

So whoever the best wrestler was, you know, we talked about pressure wrestling. Everyone always the old guy is so much better, you know, but it's evolved and they got more athletic and they do cooler stuff.

[B]

There is exception. There is guys that will transcend and history. They will maybe be the best for a few generation. But eventually.

[A]

Eventually. Absolutely. George, it was an honor to do this podcast. I appreciate you so much. I'm excited to see what you do on your podcast Journey. And I can't wait to speak again some other time.

[B]

Thank you. R. I appreciate you.

[A]

Appreciate you.