← Doug Casey's Take
Doug Casey's Take
American Nihilism
01:00:43
Join us for our Plan B Uruguay Conference: https://www.crisisinvesting.com/p/the... In this episode, Doug discusses a range of topics including the rise of nihilism among young people, the best ways to store money for UK citizens, the feasibility of a...
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- [00:03]
A
All right. Good morning, Doug. We're here with questions from members of. The File Files are a private membership group associated with the crisisinvesting.com subscription. So let's see. First question for you, Doug, is what is the reason for nihilism in young people? He says even my libertarian leaning daughters, 18 and 22, suffer from it, as well as their friends. It seems like it might be a factor in the birth rates dropping around the world. The world has been a rough place. Could it just be the flood of information we all receive nowadays, or is there more to it?
- [00:40]
B
That's a hell of a good question. Nihilism, is it a trend among the younger generation? Well, what does the word mean? That's from the Latin nihil, which means nothing, and it means a belief in nothing, basically. Well, I'm not. I'm not. People. People present nihilism as being a bad thing. I can understand that. But on the other hand, if, if you have really certain beliefs, let's say you convert to Islam, okay? All your questions are answered. And maybe the reason why, why Muhammad is the fastest growing religion in the world is because there's no room for nihilism there. Everything is certainty. And nihilism, if you don't believe in anything is like, maximizes uncertainty where you. If you don't believe anything, well, you're uncertain about everything. So I think nihilism, of course, if that's the total of your philosophy, that's not good. But I think a, a touch of nihilism is. It means you're questioning. It tends to make you more of a critical thinker. At least that's my view towards it. But I guess the other part of his question is because of the surfeit of information, there is. Yeah, it's confusing. And if you get all these differing points of view which you get on the Internet, on computers, you didn't used to get that in the old days when, you know, it was just your family and friends and a few outsiders and everybody tended to believe the same thing. So there wasn't much room for nihilism. Not believing in anything. Why would you not believe. Whatever. So nihilism, I'm all for a touch of nihilism, but you don't want to take things too far.
- [03:13]
A
No, I mean, you should believe in something, right? I mean, it's totally disorienting to not believe in anything.
- [03:24]
B
Well, that's the big. That's the big thing about religion. I mean, religion's all about belief and actually belief without any proof.
- [03:35]
A
But you get belief could be in, you know, a belief in a certain way to live your life or like a, you know, moral code or, you know, some, some guidance of some kind that gives you. Because without it it's like there's no, there's no reason to do. And like the motivating factor of life is sort of completely extracted, isn't it?
- [04:03]
B
Yeah, of course. You see, you can easily see life as being totally pointless and without meaning. That's part of nihilism too. So what's the answer to that question? I guess that's why people have always liked religion and that's why if you're going to have a stable society, religion can be a good thing. I can understand how it can be a good thing. I'm not a religious person obviously. So I think the answer to what to do about this disturbing trend he sees with perhaps his daughters and kids in general is to put the theory we present in the book the Preparation into practice. I think that's a good cure for the nasty aspects of nihilism and the nasty aspects of over belief religion, the preparation exposes you to things that give meaning to life without becoming a religious fanatic, if you would.
- [05:14]
A
Right, exactly. Okay, different kind of question. What would be the best way to store start again money for a UK citizen? So if they have, I guess, short question. I guess he means, you know, he's losing the UK and he wants to have money, you know, kept and somewhere where he can, if necessary, restart his life.
- [05:44]
B
Yeah, yeah. It's wise to rat hole some cash that if everything else goes to hell in a hand basket, you're not totally penniless and bereft of any resources. That's a good question. So yeah, I think it's. I think it's really smart to have some have something rat holed. So in what form would you rat hole it? Well, not in fiat currencies. That's a mistake. M. You might consider rat holing it in bitcoin. Put it away someplace you won't touch but don't lose the wallet or the passcode that gets you to your wallet, whatever. Or just have a supply of gold coins. That's what I would do. One of the three.
- [06:35]
A
Right. Okay. Yeah, I definitely kind of my default there would be probably gold just to be sure, but I don't know. Just have greater certainty in that for some reason than I do in bitcoin, even though I'm pro bitcoin.
- [06:50]
B
But yeah, yeah, I see it the same way frankly. Yeah, I mean bitcoin is still just A pup. I mean.
- [06:59]
A
Yeah. So, okay, next question is about the. The trade deal that was announced between. I mean, there are new deals announced all the time, but there was one recently between the EU with Ursula von der Leyden and Trump where apparently she got every. The US got everything it wanted, including a commitment by the EU to buy $750 billion worth of US oil and gas before the end of Trump's term. And he says, he says that some experts have said that this target's completely unrealistic and a fantasy due to limited US supply, tactical constraints, and the EU's lack of control over private companies. So the question is, given your expertise in economics and markets, do you think this deal is feasible or is it just political posturing?
- [07:53]
B
We're talking about Trump and, you know, the trouble with the Donald is he's such a artist, he can't help himself. And, you know, saying that he's kind of deal with the Europeans to supply him with all that gas. The objections that he brought up, the questioner are quite correct. Yeah. Of course it's not going to happen. It just sounds good. It makes it so.
- [08:24]
A
Right.
- [08:25]
B
I agree, but I am bullish on natural gas. It makes all the sense in the world. There's just absolutely gigantic reserves of this stuff and I think the price is going to go up because it makes sense to use it. Of all, all the hydrocarbons, it's got the most advantages. Of course, nuclear power is absolutely the way to go, but considering the congenital stupidity of people in control, it'll move slower than we'd like. But, yeah, bullshit on part of the Donald. But natural gas is the place to be.
- [09:03]
A
Yeah. It seems like these trade deals are. They're just announced, you know, I mean, isn't this stuff. I don't know if I've never seen it yet, really formalized in like a agreement form or really structured. It's just these offhanded comments that come out all the time.
- [09:20]
B
Yes. Yeah.
- [09:22]
A
That's hard to know. It's real.
- [09:25]
B
Yeah. And anyway, can you really trust anything that Ursula, she Wolf of the ss, says or agrees to? I think not.
- [09:35]
A
Yeah. What power does she really have even exactly in the. Or the. Or all European Union countries?
- [09:42]
B
Exactly. You know, I asked myself, these people in Brussels, where did they come from? Because none of the Eurocrats in Brussels are elected. Not that being elected means a damn thing. Look at the kind of people that are elected in the U.S. congress. I mean, it's, it's, it's a ridiculous charade. It's Kabuki theater, they're installed. But these people in Brussels, like, like Ursula, they're not elected by any of the common people. Well, so it's all nonsense.
- [10:15]
A
Okay, did you happen to watch the Tucker Carlson interview with this German professor, Richard A. Werner that just happened recently?
- [10:24]
B
Was he the Euro weenie that.
- [10:27]
A
No, no, no, no. This one, he was a banking guy. He wrote a book called Princes of Yen, basically about the way the banking system worked and the collapse in Japan during the, I guess the late 80s, early 90s. He was working there as like a graduate student, I guess. And so he wrote this book, Princes of Yen and then he was on Tucker just recently, within the last couple weeks. And anyway, well, in it he says that China's success, you know, in great part was due to the fact that they basically had thousands of local banks deployed throughout the country to make local productive loans. And you know that the growth in the small factories and infrastructure all came from this local credit decision making. It was kind of his thesis and he said, would you agree that once a country loses sovereign banking, that is foreign majority ownership of banks, that it also loses its sovereignty? And would you advocate for a sovereign banking system with no foreign ownership?
- [11:40]
B
No, absolutely not. I mean, how does the passport that somebody carries have anything to do with anything? And as I understand the question, yeah, one of the formulas for success is to have banks where people can put their money and have it put together and be lent out prudently for productive purposes. So but there should be no restriction, I think, on the number of banks it would cause. You'd have to be responsible, putting your money in a well managed, responsible bank. And you say, well the average person doesn't understand anything, doesn't know anything about it. Got to, got to make things safe for them. Have to regulate banks and have a central bank to bail out the banks in case they're idiots and blow all the money on foolish loans. Well, that's how you get an irresponsible society. If a banker commits a fraud or loses the money, then he's got some real liability. Civil, certainly, maybe criminal. That's the best regulation for banking. But there ought to be as many banks. Look, if somebody wants to go out and start a bank tomorrow morning, I think he should be able to do it.
- [13:10]
A
And very difficult to do that though, as we know with Battle bank and their efforts to get, to get launched, it's impossible.
- [13:17]
B
I mean that Battle bank should have been, should have been up and running years ago, quite frankly. It's, it's just the banks that Are already in existence. Don't want to see more banks. And of course, all the banks are giant mega banks these days, and the. The whole system is screwed up, but it's got nothing to do with, I think, the nationality or sovereignty or this type of thing in the bank. The banks in questions, anybody can start a bank, but I think with any kind of capital and solicit funds, and you suffer the consequences. If you idiotically deposit your money in a bank with no capital, run by bad people. It would make people more prudent and more responsible. That actually is the answer to the question, not the current answer.
- [14:12]
A
Okay. All right. What do you think about the proliferation of tattoos, especially on women? Didn't tattoos used to be part of a male coming of age or initiation into manhood? Could it be a signal that young people are looking for meaning through ritual because there is no longer a clear path to adulthood or a way to mark that transition by way of achievement? It seems like everybody has. Everybody and his brother or sister gets tattoos now. What do tattoos mean anymore?
- [14:44]
B
That's a really good question, too. And it kind of relates to the question on nihilism, doesn't it?
- [14:49]
A
It really does.
- [14:51]
B
So I guess everybody wants to identify as being part of a group, a special in group, whatever. This is why guys that join motorcycle gangs, you often get tattoos. That's why guys in the military, especially. Especially hardcore units go for tattoos. Yeah, it's nothing wrong. I don't have any tattoos. I know you do. I mean, I'm ambivalent about it. I don't belong to any group that I considered. Listen, if you want to. But the question is, I guess, how come all the young women are getting tattoos too? It's a decoration, you know, especially on a woman. On a woman. It may be kind of. Kind of. They're trying to advertise something. It's like a nose ring is. It's like sending out a. An advertisement of. Of something.
- [15:50]
A
It really is. And I think it's the same. It's the same. Same act when men do it. I mean, you know, they're. They're. They're. They're. They're sending out a sign about themselves.
- [16:03]
B
Yeah.
- [16:04]
A
So. But yeah, it's. I don't. I don't know why it has grown. I just, I. I personally have seen it much more as just a f. And with people, you know, just like these trends in fashion change and people, you know, sometimes have terrible haircuts and like, I remember when I lived in Buenos Aires a long time ago in. I guess 2008. You know, all women, everyone had really long hair before that. And then all of a sudden it became fashionable for everyone to cut their hair very short. And it was, it was almost immediate. It like happened over like a year and a half. And all of a sudden like everyone looked ugly to me, you know, because of what they did with this fashion thing. So, yeah, I think tattoos are just another fashion thing. And I think the problem with tattoos, you got to think it through because it's a, it's forever after.
- [16:59]
B
That's right. And, and especially in the case of a woman who are more, tend to be more fashion driven than men, as a general rule, you get a TATTOO when you're 20, you know, it may look a little bit inappropriate by the time you're 40 and by the time you're 60. If you think that far ahead, you know, you're going to get kind of wrinkly and it's not going to present the same way. In addition to the fact that, you know, you may say I love Bob, but you may not love Bob, I'd say be careful with them. But it's, I'd say the proliferation of tattoos is, I don't think it's, to me it's a bad indication.
- [17:53]
A
Why, why is it bad? What, what exactly is it a bad indication?
- [17:56]
B
Maybe it's because especially young people are trying to prove something to stand out when they have no particular qualification to stand out. It's impulse with permanent consequences. So.
- [18:15]
A
Well, and I guess that kind of relates to what your question is, that there isn't anything that's no initiation or no like transition to adulthood, except for like, you know, you turn 18 and now you can legally go get tattooed without your parents permission. You know, so it's almost like maybe it's just.
- [18:35]
B
Well, I guess, you know, especially, especially people that have, you know, have hammer and sickle or swastika. You know, that's, doesn't make much sense to me. But the fact that people are, that they're trying to, they're trying to tell people something, but what are they trying to tell you?
- [19:01]
A
Right. And that's a big thing. I think that people don't do it and they don't really know what, what it is telling everyone else about them. You know, like it's actually, it's sending a signal you might not mean to mean.
- [19:14]
B
Anyway, as a general rule, one of the problems with tattoos is that there were things that they put on prisoners and concentration camps to identify them. And it's things we, we put on cattle to permanently identify them. So there's some real symbolic downsides to tattoos as well.
- [19:39]
A
Yeah, yeah. I think you just got to think it through. You got to be really, you could really think it through before you do it.
- [19:45]
B
Yeah.
- [19:47]
A
Okay, let's see. So he said in a recent issue of Crisis Investing, we talked about tech giants like Google, Amazon and Meta signing pledges to triple nuclear capacity by 2050 because they need reliable baseload power for AI. And he says, can we trust these companies to remain in business for another 25 years or even stick to their word? My thinking is, well, if they plan on being around another quarter century, why would I not invest in them? It reminds me a little of climate change fear mongers from the 80s and 90s and even more recently saying we only have 20 years left before the planet's destroyed. And then you finally. So there's two questions here. The first question is why wouldn't you really invest in them? Will they be around for 25 years, these companies? And then the second one is, what, if any, are some examples of prominent companies from the 20th century that seemed too big to fail but ended up going broke?
- [20:47]
B
Yeah, well, there's lots of examples of those. I mean, just off the top of my head about Polaroid and Xerox, those were two biggies that ge. Yeah, that's another one that didn't seem like that was going to dry up and blow away. I mean, Boeing is, you know, maybe came within an rkh of breaking up and going bankrupt. McDonnell Douglas was. There's all companies always go bankrupt, especially high tech companies, because the technology changes. And after the founding entrepreneur dies or goes away or whatever it is, then it's run by corporate suits that I'm not sure they even care about the company. They mainly care about fat salaries and stock options. So. And as far as nuclear power is concerned, the fact that they're going to be building these plants, that's, that's wonderful. I think we ought to have these little mini nuke plants which are apparently finally getting traction, that can be moved with the tractor trailer, quite frankly, and are sealed and don't have to be messed with or in any way for 10 years. This is wonderful.
- [22:13]
A
What's happening, of course, should be everywhere.
- [22:16]
B
Everywhere. But on the other hand, I'm, I'm, I question whether the. In the meantime, because some of these giant data centers apparently use enough color power that they almost need their own giant nuclear plant, which are generally a gigawatt. I mean, these are giant things. I just wonder if we're not in the middle of a real mania. Not that AI isn't changing the world. It is. But these giant data centers, it's unclear to me how necessary they are accumulating data on everybody about everything. Like, like Palantir is doing, for instance.
- [23:08]
A
Yeah.
- [23:08]
B
So I'm ambivalent about it.
- [23:11]
A
Yeah. I mean I think it's, I think we talked about before. I think it's because as you go into the robotic side of things and you want to bring the, the power of AI into the 3D world, then I think that the processing capacity that is in these data centers is needed. And also the amount of data that's collected will be vastly larger because it'll be the, you know, more spatial data that's collected by these devices. So I think that's the reason for it. You know, whether or not, whether or not it's a mania, I don't know yet, honestly. I mean they are spending huge amounts of money. In fact just announced last week that these companies have huge cash flows and they're using their cash flows to, to build these data centers. But there were, but they raised. They did. Somebody floated a bond for, I think it was meta. For $100 billion for more. For them to build more data centers. So taking out debt now too to do it.
- [24:13]
B
I don't know, is it wise? Is it going to be productive putting hundreds of billions of dollars in a data center and associated power generation? I mean maybe it can't produce enough income to justify that kind of. I, I think the issue is in doubt.
- [24:36]
A
Yeah, I think so too. I think it is in doubt. But certainly if we had, you know, more power production and great, you know it. So we had. So like there was more power available at lower cost that would, that leads to more possibilities for a greater productivity, Right?
- [24:55]
B
It does. But in the meantime, until more nuclear power plants are built, in the meantime, these things consume an immense amount of power. And I think the way it works is that the electrical utilities raise the price of power a lot for everybody. Not just that's because of the extra draw, everybody pays more. So it's decreasing the standard of living of the average guy. Because you got that much power, you got to charge more for it for lots of reasons.
- [25:35]
A
Yep, that's, that is in fact true. I mean I saw a report this week that over the last three years the electric prices in the Mid Atlantic region had tripled the cost of electricity. But when they're bidding in their auctions on the peak hour sales that they do, it tripled. What it was from a few years ago.
- [26:01]
B
This could backfire tremendously because the heightened cost of power because of these data centers. Everybody says, well AI is great. Yeah, it is great. But not to the degree they're doing it and the reasons they're doing it for. And it's costing so much extra power. The cost of extra power. It's decreasing the average guy's standard of living a lot. It may kill a lot of other businesses that can't go into business because they can't afford the power. So this is not an unalloyed good by any means.
- [26:43]
A
Yeah, because power is the main bottleneck. That's the whole. With all of it. I mean we don't have, we definitely need more power. And I don't know. And I think, I really feel like some of these data centers will be prioritized over consumer stuff. It's like when they started to have, they're worried about brownouts in California. They send out a text message asking people to lower their air conditioning or whatever to save on power usage.
- [27:13]
B
Yeah, because Amazon's data center needs more.
- [27:18]
A
Exactly. And then if you have these smart devices installed in your home, it'll adjust automatically for you.
- [27:25]
B
Yes, of course, of course you've got no control over it. Yeah, of course. You know who is the guy that was Tim the tool man that used to grunt like a chimpanzee and said he wants more power. And of course he was right. More power, more power.
- [27:48]
A
Let's see. Okay, so next question is Doug, do you believe we're witnessing the death of politics or just the nation state? If it is, will there be a single event or series of events that will lead to widespread recognition of that, such as the collapse of the European Union and what will the history book say about today's politics?
- [28:09]
B
I'm completely confident that the European Union is going to fall apart and dry up and blow away the idea of started out as a customs union for iron and steel so that these come countries that had iron and ones that had coal could trade without duties. And so it was it, it started out to get around the disadvantages presented by local governments and then it cut and it was a great idea to get rid of customs and free travel between Europeans. Okay, this was, this is all. But then it got out of control and became a self licking ice cream cone where now it's totally counterproductive in every way. So it's gone from a good thing to a bad thing. And so the European Union is definitely going to draw up and blow up and so Is the euro, no question about that. In my mind, it's handwriting has been on the wall like forever. But politics is something else. The only way you can get rid of politics. Well, listen, we're social animals. We have to live together in a polity and cities. Politics, I'm afraid, is part of. But the question is how you structure the politics. As an anarchist, we'll always have political relations between people. But I don't think you have to or you should have a government that can do anything, anything whatsoever except defend you from force within or without the polity, and perhaps adjudicate to force, adjudicate disputes without resorting to force. So yeah, politics will be around. But the question is what the government can do. And the question is the government should do nothing other than that. In fact, that might even be too much because defense and police and the courts are so important that even there you don't even want to have the market can do it better than the kind of people that inevitably get involved in government. They're the worst kind of people from every point of view.
- [30:33]
A
Yeah. Doug, what's the worst piece of advice you've received that actually turned out to be useful?
- [30:44]
B
Well, I'm not sure if anybody takes advice. I mean, you know, especially when you're young. Usually advice goes in one ear and out the other. I mean, I remember when I, when I became a stockbroker, my old man just made a comment, he said, well, you really should start in the back office of the brokerage firm. And why he said that I didn't go into it with them. Maybe because it would have been smart to know how the organization, what the bones of the organization are like, how things are done on the interior of a business, a brokerage firm, how the stock was delivered. And things like this is all ancient history at this point. And maybe because when you're young and you don't know anything, but you're a salesman peddling stocks to people, you know, you can hurt them and hurt yourself. That was advice that I didn't take, but maybe I should have. I don't know. What do you think, Matt? You had any advice that was good, but you didn't take it, or bad and you didn't take it.
- [31:56]
A
I think you're right that people don't take advice. They receive advice, you know, but they don't take it. So like, if you're giving it to people, they don't. It's like, you know, it's like in one ear, out the other almost. It's like if it's not solicited. Like, it's the last thing. You're not gonna. I don't know, I think for young people, but I think for all people, it's like it just passes through. You don't even do anything with it. And I have no like. So I can't think of an example personally, because I probably ignored the worst advice and maybe the best advice I was given along the way, you know, but, but when you ask, you know, that's why it's one time, you know, when I. One thing I try and do, when I'm trying to offer advice to somebody, I ask them, would you like me to tell you how I would handle it before I say it? You know, because otherwise if they, if they, if most of the time, they don't really want to hear it, you know, they want to complain about the problem anyway. So, like, you're just wasting your breath and they don't care. But if you ask for, if you ask for their permission to give it, then it totally changes the dynamics.
- [33:08]
B
I think you're right. Absolutely right. And actually, when it comes to advice, there's lots of self help books that if you open the self help book up, you're asking for the advice of the author. And so reading history isn't formally advice, but if you see what somebody's done in the past, you can learn from it. So it's kind of an indirect advice, as it were. I'm big on reading history.
- [33:37]
A
Yeah. And I think in all those cases, it's the person seeking the advice, the counsel, the, you know, direction from others, that is the only person who can take it. I mean, you know, I mean, they can. Only the person that's seeking it can get it. And I think for the most part, people don't really want advice. They want to complain about their problems or they want to be heard or.
- [33:58]
B
They want to be. They want to be helped. They want a freebie to, you know, solve the current problem. Yeah. You know, I don't need your advice. Just give me the money.
- [34:08]
A
Yeah, that's usually what it is. Okay. Does Doug know about Irania? And, and I believe this is a, this is a, like a. It's almost a breakaway state in South Africa. Is that what that is?
- [34:25]
B
Yeah, well, not really. It's. It's kind of in the middle of nowhere in South Africa where a bunch of Afrikaners who are the original residents of South Africa, if you don't count the. If you don't count the. Oh, God, the. What do you call The Aborigines. The Aborigines, the original aboriginal, this is named for them and I forget, I mean. So anyway, they've been displaced with the, with the black regime and so they bought the land, they set up a community and it's like, if you would. It's kind of like a white homeland. Before South Africa was, was taken over by the blacks after apartheid, it was divided up. There were many homelands where people of different tribes could control their area within South Africa. This is kind of like a white homeland, if you, if you would. But of course the blacks don't like the idea and the whites are happy living there. We all speak Afrikaans. They're all part of the same community. They all have the same. My wife is an Africana actually, so I should, if I go back to South Africa, I'll actually visit the place. I should ask her to inquire with relatives exactly what the boots on the ground is. Because the blacks are giving the Afrikaners in Irania a hard time. It's a prosperous place because these people, they're hard working, they produce, they save, they're trying to make their way. And of course that breeds resentment from the poor blacks alone who don't have the culture and are basically. Yeah, so they're writing for trouble, I'm afraid.
- [36:33]
A
Apparently his question, part of his statement, he says after the question is that they've been able to issue their own currency from the Chamber of Commerce there in that. In their own. I mean, they have their own currency, apparently.
- [36:49]
B
Yeah, I've heard that. Well, in a community like that where everybody trusts one another and they share the same values, a fiat currency can work for a while anyway. But of course the South African government doesn't like the idea of people subverting the Rand, which is a total dogshit currency at this point.
- [37:15]
A
Yeah, I mean, they want to be the only force that subverts it.
- [37:20]
B
Yes, exactly.
- [37:23]
A
All right, next question is why would you choose Uruguay over say Panama, which offers ongoing territorial tax system and is closer to the US Property can be purchased there also and decent path to citizenship. It's often on expat lists. So just wondering.
- [37:41]
B
Well, you know, our friend Michael Yan is not a fan of Panama for a number of reasons. I'm not sure they're very important from the point of view. Somebody's looking for a, for a, for a second place to camp. But. Well, I mean, what do you, what do you think? I, I mean like Panama, it's, it's, it's fine. That's okay.
- [38:14]
A
Yeah. I think that my problem, I mean right about the territorial tax system but you know, when you and coming to Uruguay, you get a choice essentially of for your foreign income where you can either have a 10 year tax holiday on any foreign income or you can pick a fixed rate that starts now and is for ever and that that rate is 7%. So yeah, it's not, it's, you know, it does tax things outside of the country, but it's not that bad in that regard. I think. And I think the other thing is I, I personally do believe that things are far less stable in Panama than they are in Uruguay. And I think Michael Yan, this is what he's talking about with it specifically. You know, he's saying he thinks there's going to be conflict there of some kind. And I mean I, and in my opinion, Panama, it's not the same place it was even a decade ago. They handled Covid extremely poorly. Probably some of the most severe lockdown measures of anywhere in the world. It destroyed a lot of businesses there. And I think it, you know, there's like a feeling of resentment in the last several times I've been there that I didn't see a decade ago, you know, where the gringo is seen or I felt welcomed before where now I didn't feel that way. And I think that's a big change that's occurred.
- [39:50]
B
That's a good point. And the main source of income in Panama is the canal, which they've improved. But at this point the question is, well, who should own the canal? We could have a whole show on that. That's kind of an interesting subject. But Trump maybe has back burned for the time being, but he wants to take the canal back and the Panamanians may not like that. So being a gringo under those circumstances in Panama, like you said, is suboptimal now Uruguay, much more stable place for a lot of reasons. No question about it. It's more stable in lots of ways than Panama is. I like Panama. I spent a lot of time there actually in the past. But Uruguay is a better place to camp out permanently, I think. Although Panama City is advanced and has lots of facilities and lots of advantages. I don't know. Look, the answer to the question is to visit them both and see what's. Ask your doctor what's right for you.
- [41:04]
A
Exactly. So, so Warren Buffett and Berkshire, I think everyone knows that they have huge amounts of cash. You know, what does he know about what's coming in the markets that maybe most investors are ignoring today?
- [41:20]
B
Well, Buffett is, you know, very smart and very shrewd and very knowledgeable and he has his methodology and he doesn't see many things that are worth buying. So he would have been better off if he hadn't. If he wasn't an anti gold guy, he would have been accumulating all that cash in gold as opposed to dollars. So that's a mistake he's made, but he doesn't see any value in the market. It's not that he knows anything's going to happen, but he does know that the markets can be cyclical and it, it's very overpriced. So let's just hope his cash doesn't disappear for any number of reasons that I could think.
- [42:09]
A
Yeah, exactly. Okay, next question is, can you envision a way I can store my physical gold and silver with a bank or storage facility in the US and then use that as collateral to borrow against in another country? I do think that this is something that Battle bank is going to offer, actually. And I think there are other services that offer this too. Storage facilities that you can take out loans against it essentially rather than have to sell it. So I think, I'm say 99% sure that battle bank is going to offer this as a service and there are others who do it.
- [42:51]
B
Well, okay, that's good. And more flexibility is better. But to me it kind of subverts the whole point of having gold. You don't want, you don't want any liabilities against your gold, frankly, kind of. I haven't investigated it because it's not a factor I can imagine if I desperately needed the money, didn't want to sell my gold. Yeah, it'd be nice to borrow. I haven't looked into, into it, to be honest with you, although I have heard that when Battle bank gets up and running, it's gonna make that possible.
- [43:33]
A
Yeah.
- [43:34]
B
I don't know. To me it should be an, should be an irrelevant question.
- [43:40]
A
Yeah.
- [43:40]
B
But I realize sometimes it isn't, so I don't have a good answer.
- [43:45]
A
Yeah, it can be done though. I think that's the important thing if you want to do it. As I understand it, all governments are just a maritime company with some kind of voting right to the leadership. But when you change government, the new government is bound by all sorts of old contracts with EU, NATO, UN loans, etc. So it's impossible to change anything, no matter who you vote for. And then they put a question mark. So it's a statement that's asking as a question. Is that right?
- [44:17]
B
Yeah. Well, the question mark that you mentioned I think is very appropriate because I don't really understand the question. Maritime something. I mean, old government, you know, does the new government have to stay a member of these clubs that governments join and so forth, these questions? That's, it's an irrelevant question, quite frankly.
- [44:42]
A
Yeah, I mean it is a, it is an entity that its liabilities continue on along with the assets with the new. Under the new elected leadership. Right. I mean that's, that's true, but it doesn't mean that nothing could be done. That's what they say, nothing. You can make changes. The Congress, Congress could pass new laws and, or get rid of regulations as they are, you know, to make changes. So.
- [45:13]
B
Sure. And governments go bankrupt all the time and default on their bets and default on their currencies by wiping them out. And so it's, it's kind of, kind of, kind of irrelevant. I mean.
- [45:29]
A
Yeah.
- [45:30]
B
Okay, and what are you going to do about it? I mean.
- [45:33]
A
Right. Well, do, do what we do. We don't vote.
- [45:39]
B
That's a step in the right direction for sure. Don't feed power to the beast. And the way you feed power to the beast is by playing its game. I mean, you know, during the 60s they used to say, suppose they gave a war and nobody came. Okay, great idea, but let's take it further. Suppose they gave a tax and nobody paid. Suppose they gave an election and nobody voted. These are interesting questions.
- [46:08]
A
Yeah, it's. I mean the voting gives whatever the, whoever's in government the, you know, the illusion of legitimacy.
- [46:17]
B
Yes. It's like they're being authorized to do whatever they're doing.
- [46:21]
A
Right. It's the will of the people.
- [46:23]
B
Yes, of course.
- [46:25]
A
So. So yeah, if they were made obviously illegitimate by not voting, if everyone didn't vote, then I think it'd be really hard for them to get away with the things that they do to us. So. All right, so next question is, what's your opinion on billionaires? That seems like a broad question. And do you think there will be a trillionaire soon?
- [46:48]
B
Well, depends on how many dollars are created and how many of them somebody can amass. So yeah, probably eventually, but. Okay, now what do we do? I mean billionaires are great. I mean a billion people that have multi billion dollar fortunes can do really interesting stuff with that. You could buy your own country, quite frankly. I mean there are small countries that would actually put themselves up for sale and all the citizens would be really happy to have a whole bunch of money that somebody gave them to get off of their island. And then if you had, you know, billions of dollars, you could develop the so forth. Unfortunately, it seems like most billionaires are rather conventional and are greedy and, and they think they're going to live forever too. Well, maybe we can live forever with further advances in technology. It's not out of the question. But you know, you think that if you have the kind of money that some of the billionaires do, well, why not do something really interesting with it as opposed to just business as usual. Anyway, I'm all for billionaires, but they're just most cases, they're clever people, productive people that got lucky at the same time.
- [48:20]
A
Yep, yep. Someone asks a kind of follow up question on that, it says yes, and where are they moving? I heard that billionaires have been buying property and farms in New Zealand over the last several years. What do you think about that, Doug? And, and also, Bill Gates is one of, if not the biggest private farmland owner. What does he know?
- [48:43]
B
He's got to have someplace to put his bunny farmland. Seems like his stable place is, I mean, where else is he going to put it? What are you going to do with all that money?
- [48:57]
A
Right.
- [48:59]
B
More shares and public companies or buy real assets like gold or farmland. So it doesn't tell me anything in particular that Gates is buying farmland. Prudent allocation of a portion of your gigantic wealth. Okay, that's cool. What was the other part of the question?
- [49:22]
A
Buying property in New Zealand over the last few years.
- [49:27]
B
Oh, well, I lived in New Zealand for years and should have become a New Zealand citizen, but there were, there were circumstances with their tax codes and lack of proper planning on my part that made that obviated that possibility. But yeah, apparently it's got a low population. It's beautiful. There's lots of sheep, lots of cattle. It's a great place. I love it especially, especially the south island actually, and the far north part of the North Island. Those would be my favorite places in New Zealand. Yeah, it's great. If we have a nuclear war, it's one of the likely least affected places on the planet. No, New Zealand is great. Trouble is it's got a, a very socialist ethos in the country. Like this last woman that was elected, Jacinda Ahern. I mean, horrible. I mean, almost a communist. I mean, psychologically unstable. I mean, she's gone now and they've got somebody better. I don't know how much better. That's the problem with all, all nation states. The scum rises to the top. But yeah, New Zealand's great. I love the place they've got a racial problem with, not with blacks in particular, but with South Pacific Islanders. And Maoris were quite restless. They're about, they're all about 20% of the population and they're taking in a lot of migrants from alien societies. China, which is not such a bad thing, but India, which seems at least in New Zealand, like in Canada's not such a good thing. Anyway, I like New Zealand, lived there for a long time.
- [51:29]
A
Yeah, I mean I offer some of this similar benefits of like a, a Plan B that Uruguay does. And I think that's why, you know, you know, was New Zealand was super popular for years among Plan B for billionaires. And I know that Peter Thiel's got a, you know, he bought a bunch of property not in, close to where is it? It's not in Labara, it's in up the nicer, what do you call it? Nicer town, Jose Ignacio, just outside of there at a. One of the, one of the resorts.
- [52:06]
B
Peter Thiel owns a bunch of land in Uruguay now.
- [52:08]
A
Yeah, he bought some last year and somebody told me he's building a bunker on that property. And I said I saw the property and there wasn't any bunker building, but that was about eight months ago. And the guy said, no, I was just there last week and. And they're digging.
- [52:28]
B
I don't know.
- [52:29]
A
I don't know either. But anyway, yeah. So like, is it Plan B? You know, being on this side of the world is a little. Does offer some benefit, that's for sure.
- [52:37]
B
It does, yeah. The Southern hemisphere does offer some benefits. There's no question about it.
- [52:43]
A
Yeah. So question. Just two more questions for you, Doug, regarding Uruguay. How is the healthcare system? Are there good doctors and hospitals? This is a key criteria for me in moving to another country. And what about criminality?
- [52:58]
B
Well, I think the medical system in Uruguay is just fine. I mean, my experience with it has been good. If it's a serious high tech thing that you need, what you do is you just cross the Plate river into Buenos Aires where you can get anything and everything because Argentina is a larger, more sophisticated society. But Uruguay is just fine. I mean, I mean, if you, if you're going to have advanced brain surgery, well, there may not be a specialist and all that in Montevideo, but there isn't virus. So don't worry about that too much. Anyway, if, if wasn't I. If I had to have an optional operation made for something, I might want to go to Thailand for that matter. Cost benefit Computer.
- [53:59]
A
As far as basic health Care is here. They have a. There's the public system that they have, which I hear is adequate, and then there's the. These private hospital systems. Essentially you can. You can go to. And, you know, if you want health insurance, you can get it through those guys. And health care is way less expensive here. I mean, if you do the health insurance, like the VIP level at one of these, you know, one of these places, it's like, I don't know, like, I think for my family, I think It'd be like $500 a month, something like that, versus in the US I was paying 2,500amonth.
- [54:44]
B
Yeah, and that actually sounds cheap for US medical insurance at this point. So actually, I'd say that it's better than in the US because in the US it is so bureaucratized and overly regulated, and the doctors are all employees and afraid to do anything or say anything anymore. So I'd say that your medical care down here with independent practitioners is better than it is in the US Shocking to say.
- [55:18]
A
And I say it. And they asked, what about criminality in Uruguay?
- [55:24]
B
Not much, I don't think. What do you think?
- [55:27]
A
Very little. I mean, there are bad neighborhoods in every city, basically. But like, even the bad neighborhoods, they're not. They're not as bad as you might in Montevideo. I mean, let's say the parts of Montevideo where there's. You wouldn't really want to go, just like in any larger city. But in general, the criminality you might see is very. Personally, I've never seen any. I've never witnessed any of any kind. But, you know, the stuff you hear is like, petty theft is what you'll. What you'll hear about. You know that. Yeah, but I've never even seen that. So, you know, but. But I. But I hear it happens. And when it does happen, it's big news here because so little happens. If there's any of it gets really blown out of proportion. So I think this is perfectly. This is one of the safest places. I have no problem with my kids, you know, running around Punta doing whatever they want, walking around whatever time of day or night, and with zero concern about safety for them at all. I mean, none. And I don't know if I. Where else in the world I'd feel that, honestly.
- [56:41]
B
Yeah, well, not only that, but in. In Punta, certainly. I mean, people drive Lamborghinis and Ferraris and things like that around, and they don't have to worry about it. There's a lot of places in the US where you're not. It's not very smart to advertise that you want a car like that, but it's not a problem in Punta.
- [57:06]
A
Yeah, I agree. All right, let's see. One more question for you. Since you both have moved abroad, I always wondered what are the logistical obstacles to getting your personal stuff from point A to point B? And is there a good general rule about what to take or just acquire once you get there? You've done this so many times, Doug. I mean, you have households set up in multiple places. Like, how do you even make these decisions?
- [57:35]
B
Listen, I don't want to move anymore, frankly. I mean, and. And what do I have? It's actually kind of stupid and shameful. I've acquired all this crap. And. And you can't be more than one place at a time. So there's. There's certain limits to this. But it used to be much cheaper to move than it is now because it's the cost of. What's the cost of putting a container on a boat and sending it from point A to point B across the world? Used to be pretty cheap. I understand the costs have gone up a lot, but I don't know what they are because I don't want that again.
- [58:15]
A
Yeah, I did. It's actually. It's very. The process is basically pretty simple, though. All you do is you hire a moving company that does it, and they will pack the container for you and it'll arrive at your destination. I mean, they take care of all the logistics for you. But, you know, it depends on where you're going, what you want to take or not take. And like in Uruguay, there's a high. So people who love the tariffs. I mean, living in Uruguay is a high tariff country, essentially. It makes it very expensive to import anything. So when you come, people. When people come here, you can bring in. You get residency here, you can bring in one container of household goods, and that's all duty free. And so it's a huge opportunity, I mean, to bring in everything you might imagine you might ever need of any high value from a cheap country into a place that doesn't have tariffs to a place that does. But it depends upon where you're going, specifically how to consider it.
- [59:11]
B
I think that's a well answered question. And the other thing I'd add to that is that depending on the area that you're going in a country, a lot of houses are sold in South America that are fully furnished. In fact, that's true in upmarket areas. Because, look, if I sell this apartment where I am right now, here in Buenos Aires. What am I going to do with all this furniture? I don't want to take it anywhere. I'll take the artwork with me, which I like, but that's it. And artwork is a personal thing. People don't usually leave that anyway. They have different tastes. So very often. What you said about our container. Absolutely true. And the other thing is, usually when you buy a decent house in these places, it's nicely, nicely furnished, anyway.
- [60:05]
A
Yep, yep. That's the way it was the place we bought here, too. It was furnished, and it was nice to get our own stuff in here, but. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The basics are all there, for sure. So. Okay, well, there's. There's a few more, but I think we'll save those for another time. Doug. Yeah. And we'll be back on Wednesday with our normal what's happening in the world?
- [60:27]
B
And then with any luck, the time that we meet, after that, I'm going to be back in the U.S. that's right. Anyway, for a couple months.
- [60:37]
A
Okay. All right. Well, thanks a lot, Doug. Have a good weekend. Talk to you later.
- [60:40]
B
Thanks, Matt.