Nationalize the Gold Mines?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Doug Casey’s Take

Episode: Nationalize the Gold Mines?
Host: Matthew Smith
Guest: Doug Casey
Date: September 26, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Doug Casey fields questions from subscribers on topics ranging from the risks of governments nationalizing gold mines (especially in Canada), investment strategies in turbulent times, the prospects of Uruguay real estate, the Casey “free ride” principle, perceptions of Americans abroad, the religious prohibition of usury, speculation on lunar mining, and the possibilities for South American political upheaval. Doug’s trademark irreverence, sharp critiques of government, and speculative investor mindset are on full display, as he offers candid opinions interspersed with historical anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Nationalizing Gold Mines: Canada and Beyond

[00:02 – 03:59]

• Question: With Canada holding no gold reserves, could they nationalize gold mines in a crisis?
  • Doug’s Take: Highly unlikely. Governments are “bankrupt and desperate for income,” but nationalizing productive assets historically “turns them into loss makers.”
  • Better for governments to “just leave well enough alone and steal half of their income in the form of taxes every year” rather than run the mines directly.
  • The technical expertise required to run mines is underestimated by governments:

    “What do they do? They think it’s going to happen if they steal something that they don’t know what to do with, which they don’t because it’s a technical business.” — Doug [01:36]

• Broader Context: He is more concerned about the cultural transformation of Canada due to high immigration (“about one and a half million per year” [02:45]), and the general drift toward a "police state" than nationalization of mines.

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2. Battle Bank Convertible Equity Offering

[03:59 – 07:52]

• Question: Thoughts on Battle Bank’s promissory note and delayed launch?
  • Doug: Shares concern about the long delay in getting the banking license and raising more capital.
  • Recommends direct due diligence for would-be investors:

    “As part of your due diligence, especially in a private deal, it makes a lot of sense...to always pursue...your due diligence by talking to the company yourself and getting an impression of them, rather than just making a choice based upon the offering documents.” — Matthew [07:32]

  • Both agree: Pick up the phone and talk to people behind the investment.

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3. Investing in Uruguayan Real Estate (Office/Rental Property)

[08:01 – 11:19]

• Question: Is buying commercial rental property in Uruguay a viable scheme?
  • Doug: Uruguay has a rule of law, and owning property is possible, but he cautions it “all comes down to the deal specifically.”
  • Observes significant new construction and development in Montevideo and Punta del Este.
  • Larger global context: Uruguay (and Argentina) are attractive for Europeans "who want to get the hell out of Europe."

    “The wind is at your back if you want to do real estate in this country.” — Doug [09:34]

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4. The “Casey Free Ride” Principle

[11:20 – 18:26]

• Question: Is taking out initial capital after a stock doubles (“Casey Free Ride”) a hard rule for Doug?
  • Doug: Good policy, especially for volatile mining stocks, but context matters.
  • “If you sell half and keep the rest and then reinvest it...is that second deal really better?” Often there's the problem of ending up with “30 or 40 or 50 or 60 or more” small stocks you can’t monitor.
  • Prefers to “just buy private placements...unless I really like the company, I’ll sell the shares and keep the warrants as a lottery ticket.” [13:30]
  • For small investors, it’s harder. Overall, keeping discipline is crucial but flexibility is warranted.
  • Matthew adds:

    “The hard thing is...what you do with the money has to be better than what you already own.” [17:55]

  • They both agree: Don’t let success paralyze you (“deer in the headlights”)—figure out a plan, but realize there’s no mechanical answer.

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5. Perception of Americans Overseas

[18:26 – 22:47]

• Question: How are Americans received abroad, given U.S. policies and international sentiment?
  • Doug: Disdain for Americans is long-standing. Governments' actions color perceptions, but once people know you personally, things often improve.
    • “Canadians are innocuous and Americans have all these reputational problems...It's more serious now.” [18:45]
  • Media fuels irrational dislike (“Ask your friends, how much do they hate Russians...You gotta hate them for what? I don’t know anything about Russia...” [19:13])
  • Both discuss how the U.S. President’s international image (Obama’s vs. Bush’s vs. Trump’s) affects treatment of citizens abroad.
  • Ultimately: “You really got to go to the place and see how they treat you to find out.” [20:40]

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6. Islam, Usury, and Religious Fanaticism

[22:47 – 27:34]

• Question: What about Islam’s prohibition of usury and its demonization in the West?
  • Doug: Sees the Abrahamic religions as a whole as irrational and often destructive.
    • “You can say it’s a crazy cult for deranged people—well, you can say that about people that are nutty Christians and nutty Jews too.” [24:18]
  • On usury: He calls the prohibition part of why the Islamic world has lagged, despite workarounds:

    “There are about 23 ways that Quranic scholars have found that you can rationalize interest rates...You have to in the real world. You know, it’s the time value of money...But this is friction. This is throwing sand in the gears like most of these religious prohibitions.” — Doug [25:05]

  • Suggests: "Just stay away from religious fanatics," whatever their creed. Advocates for simple ethical rules: “Do all that you say you’re going to do and don’t impinge upon other people or their properties.” [27:14]

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7. Lunar Exploration/Moon Mining as an Investment

[28:04 – 29:27]

• Question: Is lunar exploration a plausible investment in the next decade?
  • Doug: Not even a true speculation, but a “gamble, a hope, a dream.”
    • “It’s several orders of magnitude down from an investment.” [28:16]
  • If luck strikes, maybe you'll “look like an idiot” for not betting, but it’s essentially gambling.
  • Matthew sums up: “Just means the gamble paid off as far as I’m concerned.” [29:05]

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8. Where Would ‘Rick’s Cafe Americana’ Work? Venezuela, Nicaragua, or Elsewhere?

[29:27 – 34:10]

• Doug: Yes, especially in overlooked places in political transition. - Nicaragua: “You can go to Managua or some secondary city...and open up a Rick’s Cafe...if you know how to manage a place, you’ll find out about the deals and put the deals together.” [31:01] - For such venues: “Key is to send out a casting call to good looking women that want to meet rich foreigners...You charge a lot of money for the drinks.” [31:33] - Venezuela: Crime reportedly down in Caracas, property is still mostly privately owned. If (when) a regime change comes, expect inflow of investment and huge opportunities. - “Maybe you can still do it in Caracas...probably be helpful to...find a general that you can get along with, use him as a roof, keep the other criminal generals away...That’s his tax.” [33:10]

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9. The Preparation (Book) as a Movie

[34:32 – 37:32]

• Question: Would it make sense to turn The Preparation into a movie or documentary?
  • Doug and Matt are open to it, particularly as a documentary.
  • They agree that movies help books reach wider audiences. “People don’t read so much, they watch movies. Understandable.” — Doug [36:26]
  • Note the new technology (“AI for all its faults”) for movie production could lower costs and break Hollywood’s monopoly.

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10. Potential Internal Chaos and Breakup of Brazil

[38:04 – 40:26]

• Question: Will Brazil see chaos or even break up in coming years, and what would the effects on neighbors like Uruguay be?
  • Doug: Sees Brazil as a candidate for division, with “even more cultural differences [than the U.S.], maybe not philosophical differences.”
  • Predicts that Brazil (and the U.S., eventually) could split into several nations.
    • “Brazil is not a cohesive, coherent country...it’s really several very different countries that are all under one political umbrella.”
    • On politics: Likely they’ll pardon ex-President Bolsonaro to reduce antagonism and avoid making him a martyr.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On government management of gold mines:

  “When the government runs something, it becomes a loss maker. And because all these governments...are bankrupt and desperate for income...nationalizing gold mines would be counterproductive.” — Doug [00:52]

• On the Casey Free Ride Principle:

  “The first rule of investing is don’t lose money. The second rule is just follow the first rule.” — Doug, quoting Buffett [12:18]
  “You wind up with 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 or more [small stocks]. You forget why you bought them...that’s a really bad mistake.” — Doug [13:50]

• On Americans abroad:

  “Canadians are innocuous and Americans have all these reputational problems...It's more serious now.” — Doug [18:45]
  “You really got to go to the place and see how they treat you to find out.” — Doug [20:40]

• On religious fanatics:

  “Just stay away from religious fanatics. Doesn't matter what religion they're fanatic about.” — Doug [27:07]
  “A good rule: Do all that you say you’re going to do and don’t impinge upon other people or their properties.” — Doug [27:14]

• On lunar mining:

  “It’s not an investment. It’s a speculation. In fact, maybe it’s not even a speculation. It’s a gamble, a hope, a dream.” — Doug [28:16]

• On Rick’s Cafe Americana:

  “The key to a place like this is to send out a casting call to good looking women that want to meet rich foreigners. And the rich foreigners want to meet the good looking local women. And you charge a lot of money for the drinks.” — Doug [31:33]

• On Brazil’s cohesiveness:

  “Brazil is not a cohesive, coherent country. I mean, it’s really several very different countries...So it should break up.” — Doug [39:00]

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Additional Resources Mentioned

• The Preparation: Book by Doug Casey, Matthew Smith, and Maxim Smith (available on Amazon)
• Doug’s paid newsletter for access to “the File” and to submit questions.

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• Canada’s Gold Mines & Nationalization: 00:02–03:59
• Battle Bank Offering & Delays: 03:59–07:52
• Uruguay Real Estate: 08:01–11:19
• Casey Free Ride Principle: 11:20–18:26
• US Image Abroad: 18:26–22:47
• Islam, Usury & Religious Fanaticism: 22:47–27:34
• Lunar Exploration as Investment: 28:04–29:27
• Rick's Café Americana in Venezuela/Nicaragua: 29:27–34:10
• 'Preparation' Book Movie Discussion: 34:32–37:32
• Chaos & Breakup Potential in Brazil: 38:04–40:26

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Summary Tone & Approach

The conversation is casual, irreverent, deeply skeptical of governments and mass psychology, and focused on practical investment realities. Both Doug and Matthew favor diligence, contrarian thinking, and acknowledge the complexity (and sometimes absurdity) of the modern world.

This summary strives to capture both their candor and their core insights for listeners who want to cut through the noise and get to actionable ideas or at least clear-eyed takes on current and emerging risks.

Transcript

[A]

All right. Good morning, Doug. We're here with questions for members of the File. If you want to become a member of the File and ask Doug questions, go to crisisinvesting.com Sign up to our paid newsletter, and then you'll get access to the File. So, Doug, first question is, I was listening to someone who was talking about how Canada no longer has any gold reserves and that when the next crisis occurs, then most likely they would nationalize the gold mines. I could see that happening all over the world. What would that do to the investors in those mines? And what do you think would happen to Canada's dollar and economy at that same time?

[B]

Well, Canada's in big trouble. I mean, I don't know how this fellow Carney wound up running Canada, but he's really only marginally better than Trudeau, which is not saying much. So I guess they're capable of almost anything. But the question is, what's going to happen to the gold mines in Canada? Will they be nationalized? Like, no, I don't think so. Because these people that run the governments of the world are really kind of stupid on a basic level. But I think they understand that when the government runs something, it becomes a loss maker. And because all these governments, including the government of Canada, are bankrupt and desperate for income and tax productive enterprises so highly anyway, nationalizing gold mines would be counterproductive. Their, their income might very well turn into losses. So just leave well enough alone and, and steal half of their income in the form of taxes every year and concern yourself with making trouble elsewhere. And I think this is true everywhere. I don't think anybody is going to nationalize any gold mines. They'll leave them with enough profit so that it's still worthwhile for managements to run the things. But I mean, what do they do? They think it's going to happen if they steal something that they don't know what to do with, which they don't because it's a technical business. That's my answer.

[A]

I mean, it'd be more likely that they would do what the US has been doing, where they basically print money and buy a stake in a company like MP Materials, you know, and maybe, maybe that's what they do or the US has done with intel or, I.

[B]

Don'T know, more likely. Yeah, get. Yeah, but of course, any place that they stick their noses into it, it's not like the US government is going to make wise decisions when they vote on the board or anything else. So look, there's nothing we can do about this what do you do? What do you do about it? Well, actually, nothing, but I don't think they're going to nationalize the gold mines. Don't worry about that. Worry about Canada being turned into a police state, which is happening much more rapidly than it is in the US and worrying about Canada's culture, which I used to like, it was pretty mellow being washed away, which absolutely is with. I think the current number is about one. There's 40 million people in Canada and the immigration is about one and a half million per year currently from alien cultures. So that's going to change the nature of Canada too. Totally. I mean, worry about that. I don't think they're going to nationalize the gold mines.

[A]

Okay, let's see. Next question is, I'd love to hear your thoughts on Battle Bank's promissory note offering, the convertible equity offering they have.

[B]

Yeah, I really should find out about that because I am a shareholder in Battle Bank. I put a fair amount of money in it when they were raising money for it. How long ago was that? Did you put money in that?

[A]

Five years ago.

[B]

Seems like long ago. That's way too long. 4. Way too long. This. What is going on that they can't get a banking license and go into business? I mean, during the Biden administration, okay, maybe they kind of figured that Rick and Frank were malefactors from their point of view. So, okay, they'd slow it down. But now what's going on? What do you think?

[A]

Well, I did have a conversation with Frank Trotter two months ago, and I really had a strong impression that they would be live by. I thought it, I thought he said by next month, you know, by in October. So the impression I got from Frank at the time was that it was imminent, you know, that it was going.

[B]

Why are they still raising money for this new security then? Why don't. Why, why would that still be the case? Can't they raise it?

[A]

Well, it's probably still this, you know, they're, I mean, they. To get the thing off the ground because of the extra time that is. I mean, I'm just. I don't know. But my, my, my guess would be because it's all taking way longer than they expected and so to have sufficient cash on hand to market the thing and grow it, you know, you can understand why they, why they'd want to make sure they had enough on hand once they go into operations they expected. They've had to basically pay for years of cash burn, you know, that they didn't anticipate.

[B]

Well, and maybe there's something else too. It's that, not that Rick and Frank aren't competent and it's not a good idea. It is a good idea, but maybe a lot of the people that would be natural bank clients are dislike the banking system so much that they're doing something else with maybe the banking system in general is on the slippery slope.

[A]

Well, that's certainly possible, but I, you know, we all still have bank accounts and I mean all their old customers at Everbank, which they built into something really substantial, was, I'm sure still have bank accounts and you know, would be much happier to be with them than with Wells Fargo or Bank of America.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. And the inevitable is not necessarily the imminent. So in the meantime, in the between time, we do need conventional banks. So I've got a call Rick or Frank and see if I can parse this out.

[A]

Yeah, just get an update on it.

[B]

Yeah, but I'm, I'm concerned. There's reason to be concerned. And wait a minute, questioner, you know, Frank is reachable. He's a very affable fellow. I think he'll take a call from you as a concerned person asking the question.

[A]

Yes, he would. And he, I think he would. And as part of your due diligence, especially in a private deal, it makes a lot of sense for you to always pursue, you know, the talking your due diligence by talking to the company yourself and getting an impression of them rather than just making a choice based upon the offering documents.

[B]

Yes, and sending money off into the ether. Right. Well, we're all guilty of under certain circumstances, but yeah, you're right, trying to.

[A]

Pick up the phone first makes sense. So, yeah, okay, says maybe this question has been asked before, but what if I'd like to move to Uruguay, but not just buy a house and deal with the sunk cost, but wanted to buy something like rental property, like an office of some sort where it could actually pay for itself. Is this viable scheme which makes sense in Uruguay nowadays?

[B]

Well, does it? I mean, having we both bought Uruguayan property and I bought some commercial property and there's a rule, definitely a rule of law in Uruguay and there's a reason why you shouldn't buy a rental property, a commercial rental property, really. I don't know what the return on an asset might be in Montevideo or Punta or elsewhere. I mean, I'm not following it right now. Are you?

[A]

Yeah, I don't know. I can't answer specifically and obviously it depends upon, you know, it's hard to gauge the markets. I mean, real estate's all about the deal, right. Whether or not it works. So. But I can say that there is a file member who came down here first two years ago and he's building a building in Punta, and I think he's already sold all of his units in it. You know, pre construction. They sold all of his units in it.

[B]

Well, and looking at it from a 30,000 foot view, there's every reason in the world why Europeans would want to. That have any money at all or any get up and go at all, would want to get the hell out of Europe. Everywhere and anywhere in Europe. And where are they going to go? Well, Argentina and Uruguay are two of the prime candidates in the world. There are others. So that it seems to me that there are still going to be many hundreds or thousands of Europeans and Canadians and Americans coming to Uruguay in the future. So it's kind of like the wind is at your back if you want to do real estate in this country.

[A]

And I do know there's a ton of construction, new construction happening in Montevideo now. Like a ton, you know, gentrification of certain neighborhoods happening. A lot of like mixed use buildings being built.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So there's a lot of. There's a lot of activity.

[B]

A lot. Yeah. And if you go to Punta del Este, which is, what is it, an hour and a half drive or something like that from Montevideo towards Brazil, that there's more and more building and development along the ocean moving towards Brazil. So that I don't see any reason why you shouldn't look to do a real estate deal in Uruguay. It's an open country.

[A]

Yeah. It all comes down to the deal specifically. Just got to find the right deal. And that's the hard. That's the challenge with all real estate investments.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I'm curious to know if Doug considers his free ride policy to be hard and fast for himself. I invested tiny amounts in many companies, and sometimes it seems silly to sell just that much because she's just putting a little bit in each company. Like that amount has, has appreciated, but it really isn't that much money because she might put five grand or so into a particular stock, for instance, and it will probably keep going up, is what she tells herself. On the other hand, it seems like it wouldn't be a bad idea to sell hard and fast. Set a hard, fast and fast rule for myself. So this is the Casey free ride principle. The idea is once the stock doubles, you take your initial, you sell half, take your Initial capital off the table and then, you know, you get the free ride. You get the, you get all the upside with eliminating your downside. So is that a rule you follow? It's the Casey free ride. But is it something you do all the time?

[B]

Well, I think, I believe it was Warren Buffett that one of his very many famous dictums are the first rule of investing is don't lose money. The second rule is just follow the first rule. And when you're dealing with stocks that are ultra volatile and in many ways unpredictable as these mining companies. Yeah, it's a very good policy. On the other hand, right now we're in the very early stages still of a bull market. And you don't want to sell too soon. As long as the trend is your friend. The trend is still moving these things up from a very low level. That's point number one. Point number two is if you sell half and keep the rest and then reinvest it into another deal. Okay, is that second deal you're putting your money in really better than the one that you're taking your money out of? Well, with 2,000 deals around, it's often hard to say. And you can get yourself into a problem in that you wind up with too many stocks. I mean, you gotta be diversified among these crappy little gold stocks. That's important. You can't put all your eggs in one basket. But you wind up with 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 or more of them. You forget why you bought them. You forget anything about the company. You don't monitor it. And that's a really bad mistake. So I'm not answering the question. I'm just telling you the pitfalls of doing it one way or the other way. And what do I do? I try to be disciplined. And mostly, mostly, not entirely by any means, but mostly I just buy private placements. And companies don't like to hear me say this, but unless I really like the company, I'll sell the shares and keep the warrants as a lottery ticket. And that kind of solves the problems. But if you're a small investor, you can't do that. So that doesn't answer the question for most people. I guess. So it's a problem. What do you think?

[A]

Well, you know, this question especially even forget about the individual picks. And we've got several of these small stocks that have gone up a lot. I mean, you know, 5x or more. But. But even the index, the GDXJ, the Junior Mining Index, is up 120%. Year to date. You know, the GDX, the Large Gold Miners Index is up also 120% year to date. So even that if you were just investing pretty diversified across the spectrum, you know, do you apply the KC Free ride with that? I haven't, I own both of those, you know and I'm just. Because I, I haven't done it. I'm still letting it ride. I think it's going to go a lot higher. But I could be wrong.

[B]

I agree. I think that it could go a lot higher because in the past these stocks over the last 50 years during Bull markets, I wish there have been like 5. They go 10 to 1. Small stocks as a group. I mean it's actually unbelievable what happens to these prices which it's inexplicable and stupid, but it happens. So. But I'll tell you what I'm tending to do now. You know what's as cheap as mining stocks? It's oil and gas stocks. They're really cheap, equally cheap actually any number of ways we can crunch the numbers and quality oil and gas stocks are yielding anywhere from 5% to over 10%. And if we're looking at coal stocks which are really out of favor up to 15% sometimes. So maybe if you want to get something really cheap that everybody hates, it gives you a current yield which is kind of like an outward sign of inward grace that can actually pay a dividend. They're making money. Don't usually do you. You know, maybe if you feel like you want to sell part of a gold stock, maybe you should buy an oil and gas or coal stock and I'd say uranium, but they generally don't have yields either. That's, you know, they're, they're closer to a mining stock than an oil and gas stock, although they're energy stocks so.

[A]

So you don't always follow it, but it is a good idea to do it. Especially when something, when, when something rushes up really fast. Like we recommended MP Materials to our subscribers before the US announced that they were making an investment in it. And that stock essentially doubled overnight with that one. I did sell half because it was like, you know, I mean I, I didn't, what, what, what was I expecting to happen with that stock? Basically that it doubled. It was so quick. It made sense to take the money off the table to me.

[B]

Yeah, no, I, I, I agree, but it's, it's a problem. All you can do is keep thinking about it, but don't think about it too hard because you can become like a Deer in the headlights, which is another problem. I mean, it's one problem after another that you gotta confront.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, the hard thing is, is that what you do with the money has to be better than what you already own. Like, that's the thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So.

[B]

Yeah. And are you sure it's better? Maybe it's just different, but it's actually worse, so.

[A]

Right, exactly. Yeah. These are. These are champagne problems, you know?

[B]

I know.

[A]

What do you do when the stock doubles? Oh, no.

[B]

Oh, yeah. This is a real problem. I mean, this is. Yeah. This is not a third world person's problem, for instance.

[A]

No, it's definitely not. So. Okay, next question is, Given the heinous actions of the U. S. Regime, does Doug see differences in the acceptance of Americans in the rest of the world and has it changed? So which spots are most gringo friendly?

[B]

Yeah. When I was living in Europe when I was in college, and it was part of. It was when the Vietnam war was really building momentum and there were, you know, riots about it and everything like that, you know, several of my friends, when asked, would not say they were Americans. They say they were Canadians. You can't tell the difference between a Canadian and an American, obviously. And everybody. Canadians are innocuous and Americans have all these reputational problems. And that was a long time ago. It's more serious now. So how much do people hate Americans now? Just on general principles. Well, look around you and ask your. Ask your friends, how much do they hate Russians just because they've been told the Russians are a bad guy? You gotta. You gotta hate them for what? I don't know anything about Russia or you gotta hate the Chinese. But people that go to China, aren't you afraid of being arrested? The answer is no. And China's just fine to visit and mellow and crime free and becoming more and more honest and less corrupt all the time. And everything works. And. But you're supposed to hate the Chinese because. Because I. I don't know. There's a bunch of reasons that they come up with. So it is a problem because other people feel that, you know, the Americans, you know, it's like we all work for the US Government or we all work for the CIA or something. So, yeah, I think it's a problem. But what do you do? I mean, you really got to go.

[A]

To the place and see how they treat you to find out.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And they got to get to know you individually as a person to see that you really don't grow horns. But let's admit it. The average person is easily propagandized. And the average iq.

[A]

Well, if it's disappointing.

[B]

Disappointing, yeah. I'm forced to think that it's not anywhere near a hundred. It's way below that when you look at how people react stupidly. And of course, stupidity is different from intelligence too. So you got to contend with that. You just got to go there and get to know people. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. But if the US I remember distinct change in the way I was treated internationally though, when Obama won, because internationally he was so popular and I mean, everyone was so excited, you know, and like, and versus during the Bush years, there's a little more tension. You know, people would were way more critical. And so it does have an effect on you. I mean, what, the way that you're perceived based upon how the government's behaving.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that's right. They look at the president, they figure he won an election. They figure the chances are at least 50, 50 that you voted for this and therefore you're a bad person.

[A]

Right. Probably. And when in Obama's case, he was terrible president and I didn't vote for him, but, you know, I got the benefit of he had this aura internationally at least at first, that was really great for Americans.

[B]

Yeah. I don't think abroad Trump has much of an aura or a halo, actually. Almost nowhere.

[A]

Maybe in Argentina with promising to bail him out.

[B]

Yeah. Which is really stupid. Stupid on Malay's part, stupid on It's. It's. I. I just hope it doesn't end badly for Malay. Anyway, I'm, I'm really just. Look, I'm very happy about many of the things he's done. I'm just unhappy about the fact that he's ident as an ancap because he's sure not acting like it lately.

[A]

Agreed. Okay. What are Doug's thoughts on prohibition of usury in Islam and the current demonization in the west of the Muhammadan?

[B]

Well, it's not a current demonization. I mean, the followers of Muhammad and the Christians have been at each other's throats for about 1300 years or so. So this is nothing new. And I, I think most people that have listened to us are well aware of the fact that I'm not a religious person in any way, number one, but definitely not of the Abrahamic religions, which is to say Christianity, which is, you know, you know, Jesus said some nice, mellow, intelligent things, so I'm all for that. That's great. But that doesn't mean that, you know, the Christians are pretty dangerous. It's just that right now that they're not. They're not rabid the way they have in many, many times in history, in the past. And the Jews, I mean, it's the same thing. You know, they believe these things from the Torah and they're not very nice things. And, and the Muslims, it's the same deal. There's all kinds of really, really evil and destructive things. And the. I mean, you can say it's a crazy. A crazy cult for deranged people. Well, you can say that about people that are nutty Christians and nutty Jews too. All these Abrahamic religions I'm not a fan of, but I'm not a fan of religions in general, so. But those least of all, quite frankly. So I don't know. Wait a minute. Have I asked the question here?

[A]

You haven't. You haven't. So what do you think about the idea that usury is prohibited in Islam?

[B]

I think it's one of the reasons why. Why Mohammedanism has not advanced, except for the fact that a lot of these countries find themselves sitting on a giant pool of oil. What's our oil doing under their sand? But they got lucky and it's under their sand. So, no, it's one of the reasons that it doesn't go anywhere as fast as it should as they've got. As I recall, there are about 23 ways that Quranic scholars have found that you can rationalize interest rates. Well, you have to in the real world. You know, it's the time value of money and all this type of thing. Well, Allah says it's a bad thing, so you got to find a way to get around the ridiculous prohibition. But this is friction. This is throwing sand in the gears like most of these religious prohibitions. So I don't know, hopefully, hopefully all the current Islamics will discard it and become. They'll read. Whose book am I talking about reading that? They'll read Ayn Rand's books and become rational. Well, ain't gonna happen, but, you know.

[A]

No, but it does seem like lately there's a rise in. Especially in the back of the Charlie Kirk thing and a rise. The evangelical Christian side of things.

[B]

Yeah, it's always amazed me about evangelical Christians. It's always God and guns. Well, wait a minute. I thought Jesus was God and he was usually a pretty peaceful guy. So what's this have to do with guns and attacking the enemy? And it's a bit of a contradiction that. Well, they rationalize these things just the way all these religions rationalize Things. So, you know, I, I just stay away from religious fanatics. That's a good general rule. Doesn't matter what religion they're fanatic about.

[A]

I think people are fanatic about anything in particular. Anything are generally more dangerous.

[B]

Yeah, I, I got a good rule. You want some rules of religion? You don't have to listen to the Ten Commandments. A lot of problems with the Ten Commandments. How about do all that you say you're going to do and don't impinge upon other people or their properties. So that's a, that's a good rule. You need a rule. That's a good rule.

[A]

Pretty simple, easy to remember.

[B]

Can remember it. I can't remember all the 10. Honestly, I'm not sure I can. If I had to reel them all off. Can you reel off the Ten Commandments?

[A]

No, just the obvious ones. No, I can't.

[B]

No. Yeah, so it's like primitive people, you know, when you ask them to count, they say two, three, many. So you can't ask people to remember more than three things.

[A]

Right. Okay, so next question is, does Doug think that lunar exploration is a reasonable investment over the next 10 years? He says there are some public companies that exist for it already. I'm not aware of those, but.

[B]

No, me neither. Anyway, wrong word. Investment. It's not an investment. It's a speculation. In fact, maybe it's not even a speculation. It's just a gamble, a hope, a dream. So that's not a place where you should put money unless you want to gamble. It's not even a speculation. I don't think so. It's, it's, it's several, several orders of magnitude down from an investment.

[A]

Yeah, that's for sure.

[B]

Answer to the question is I, I think you're premature, so I don't think I would recommend you do it. I don't know. Whatever company you're being promoted on, maybe it's going to go 100 to 1 in this crazy bull market and I look like an idiot for having said that. Okay, that happens.

[A]

Just means the gamble paid off as far as I'm concerned.

[B]

That's right. You can go to Vegas and put it on 23 black or is 23 red? I don't know. I don't play roulette.

[A]

All right, so.

[B]

Yeah, and you say if I say don't do it, and it comes up 23. Okay, so you won 35 times your money. Well, okay.

[A]

Congratulations. Yeah. All right. Has Doug thought any more about where a Rick's Cafe Americana or American could Work. And he says Venezuela or Nicaragua, if they have a change in power, would they be good places?

[B]

Well, you can go to Nicaragua right now and open up a place like that. I don't know how many bureaucratic hoops you'd have to jump through to open up a place. But you know, years ago with Bill Bonner and a few other guys, we, we financed Rancho Santana on the coast, the west coast of Nicaragua. And it's been a success.

[A]

Well, not a beautiful property. I mean the property is a success for sure.

[B]

Yeah, everybody's happy to be there and doesn't matter that, what's that idiot's name that runs the, what's his name?

[A]

I can't remember.

[B]

Yeah, he's, you know, he's, he's destructive and crazy and stupid, but, but he's not aggressive.

[A]

He's been in power for a long time, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. The guy that used to buy the hundred dollar sunglasses when that was a lot of money and Nicaragua was super dirt poor during the civil war. What the hell's that guy's name? I mean, it's Ortega.

[A]

Well, that's.

[B]

David. What's his first name, David?

[A]

Danielle.

[B]

Danielle. So yeah, you can do it down there. And Nicaragua doesn't have a stock market or any kind of a. So yeah, I can see that. You can go to Managua or maybe some secondary city which are many, and open up a Rick's Cafe. And it would be a place where people would hang out. You know, all these countries that are backward, you know, there's when tourists or rich foreign businessmen come to it, they'd like to go to someplace where they can get a good drink. Okay, that's nice. And get a few American items on the menu. Well done. Few local specialties. Well done. And you know, the key to a place like this is to send out a casting call to good looking women that want to meet rich foreigners. And the rich foreigners want to meet the good looking local women. And you charge a lot of money for the drinks. And since you're getting upmarket foreign businessmen, if you, if you know how to manage a place, you'll find out about the deals and you put the deals together and so it's still a good idea. Not, not as good a deal an idea as it was when the Soviet empire collapsed. Was fantastic deal to do then. But yeah, you can still do it in Nicaragua. Maybe you can still do it in, in, in Caracas because I understand, I don't know if it's true that the crime level in Caracas has collapsed because all The Venezuelan criminals have gone to the US where the pickings are easier. Much easier, you know, so.

[A]

And, you know, if they do take out Maduro, which it looks like they're aiming to, that might actually cause a flood of investment and investors to come in there. Then, I mean, that could create a. And under those circumstances, that could create a really interesting opportunity.

[B]

Yeah. And there have got to be, because of the. How screwed up everything is in Venezuela. But all the. Almost all the property is still privately owned, quite frankly. It's not been nationalized. There got to be huge anomalies, price anomalies, where you can buy stuff for unbelievable cheap prices if you wait long enough and you find the guy that's got to get out of it, whatever. So I think that you could go to Caracas right now and open up a Rick's Cafe and, you know, and probably be helpful to, you know, find a general that you can get along with, use him as a roof, keep the. Keep the other criminal generals away. You know, you have to give him a certain percentage of the profits, but that's his tax. Can't get away from these things. So I. Listen, that's not a bad idea, going to. Going to do that in. A. Super idea to do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Those places, especially Caracas.

[A]

Yeah. Because I just think that, you know, there probably will be a lot of new investment dollars that come in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, into Venezuela in particular. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So give it a try. I'd love to. Love to hear about it if you. If you investigate that.

[A]

Okay, so just two more questions here. It says, would it make sense to turn the Preparation into a movie, too?

[B]

I don't know. Would it be a documentary or would you make it a story?

[A]

Well, the easier one is certainly a documentary. Yeah. I don't know.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

Maybe you could do it. I mean, it's. It's. I mean, the truth of the matter is, as I've seen it, and what we're talking about, in case you don't know, is the Preparation, which is a book that Doug I and my son Maxim wrote, which we came out last month, and I should hold up a copy of it. You can get it on Amazon. You will. You will like it, I guarantee.

[B]

I got a copy, too.

[A]

Good. All right. Yeah, you got one. Even positioned behind you over your shoulder. Very smart positioning. Yeah, I got to do that.

[B]

Everybody listening. Everybody listening to this podcast should buy the book. They really should.

[A]

I haven't heard a single disgruntled buyer at all. I've only heard glowing. I mean, it's Shocking to me, actually, the, the feedback that we've gotten, how positive it's been. I didn't expect that. And so it's been very gratifying.

[B]

So, yeah, maybe somebody out there would like to get into the documentary or movie business and we'd love to work with you on, on this. I don't know how to do that.

[A]

Personally, but yeah, yeah, somebody's got some ideas. Reach out. Okay, so last question was. I was kind of relating, actually. Sorry, it's not even a separate question. He says, I always thought a movie about Doug's old side hustle would be fun. Going to third world countries, trying to convince leaders to adopt his ideas. That would be a great movie or an adaptation of your novels for streaming.

[B]

He says, yeah, I'm all for it. Because the only way that novels make the big time is if a movie's made out of them. People don't read so much, they watch movies. Understandable. Yeah, yeah, we need a, we need a forward looking movie producer, but I don't know.

[A]

Well, if you've got the skills and the interest, let us know.

[B]

Yeah, Trying to get, trying to get the conventional Hollywood. Probably not.

[A]

No, it's not worthwhile. Plus, you know, it's like it's all built on just the way that content is created is, you know, done with a price tag. You know, the out of the gate that is so massive. It doesn't have to be like that. There's a technology and the cost really of doing it. Now it needs one, you know, it needs one really creative person to drive it and then whatever other resources they need around them. Like, I don't think you'd require all that that you once did.

[B]

Yeah. Especially with AI, for all its faults. I mean, you don't need to pay actors millions of dollars or whatever. You can create all this stuff that looks real but it's not, and just have a few real people inserted in the. This ought to change everything. So hopefully there's somebody listening to this who would like to get into the movie business, which would be wonderful and truly overturn the Hollywood monopoly.

[A]

Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. Just one more question. Does Doug envision the potential for internal chaos engulfing Brazil in the years ahead, perhaps concluding with a breakup of the country? And how would such a scenario affect its neighboring countries? Namely, I'd be interested in how to affect Uruguay, you know, because they decided to put the former president in prison for basically the rest of his life. Right. He was convicted of sedition charges or something along those lines.

[B]

Whatever. Yeah.

[A]

So yeah. What do you think? Do you envision internal chaos in Brazil in the years ahead?

[B]

Well, since I think depends on your time frame, of course. And I think the US sometime is going to break up into two or more countries and certainly Brazil, because there's even more cultural differences, maybe not philosophical differences, which is a problem in the US but you know the difference. Brazil is not a cohesive, coherent country. I mean, it's really several very different countries that are all under one political umbrella that all want different things from the government and they're at odds with each other. So it should break up. It's the only Portuguese speaking country in South America, but that doesn't mean there can't be three or four new Portuguese speaking countries. So. Yeah, but the question is when? And I kind of think that they're going to pardon on some basis, Bolsonaro, because they need less antagonism, not more. So that's how you do. You convict them. Bad guy, convicted. Okay, we'll let him go because we're nice guys. I think that's what's going to happen with them, frankly.

[A]

Destroy him as a, as political opposition, like neuter him, but not necessarily make it worse by sending him to prison for the rest of his life.

[B]

No, it doesn't serve any useful purpose to keep him in prison except to really antagonize and help the, help the tournament to a martyr and help the opposition crystallize. So yeah, I think that's what's going to happen.

[A]

That makes sense. Okay. All right, well, that's all the questions I had for today, Doug. So I guess we'll wrap it up there and heading into weekend and we'll be back next Wednesday with the next episode.

[B]

Yeah. And hopefully the world won't have changed too much that, you know, Trump won't get some kind of a really goofy idea and decide to turn it into an executive order tomorrow morning. He's been doing a lot of that lately with his tariffs and God knows what.

[A]

Well, I believe. Well, so, and I believe this meeting of these 800 generals, basically all the generals the US has and you know, admirals outside of Washington, I think that happens on Tuesday. So we'll know what that's actually about by then. Hopefully.

[B]

Yeah, I think 800 is probably too many. I think we've got what, 44, four star generals.

[A]

Yeah. For what?

[B]

Who are all these people? I mean that's. Most of them should be, should be fired and hopefully it's a house cleaning just on general principles. Well, I guess it's in the you'll find out department, which is so many things.

[A]

Right? Hopefully we'll know by Wednesday. We can talk about it then.

[B]

Yeah, we don't have to wait 100 years to find out what's going to happen. Although, always got to remember what. What Joanne Lai said when Charles de Gaulle asked him, so, what do you think about the French Revolution? And Joe said, it's too early to tell.

[A]

Yeah. Takes more than 100 years to find out. All right. Okay. We'll leave it there. Doug, thank you very much. Have a great weekend.

[B]

Thanks, Matt.