Police Discover A Body In Their Suspect's Garage

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dr. Insanity – "Police Discover A Body In Their Suspect's Garage"

Release Date: October 18, 2024

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Introduction to the Case

In this chilling episode of Dr. Insanity, host Dr. Insanity delves into a disturbing true crime story that unfolds within a seemingly ordinary family. The episode, titled "Police Discover A Body In Their Suspect's Garage," unravels the mysterious disappearance and subsequent discovery of Patricia Bennett's body, uncovering layers of deceit and familial tension.

Key Points:

• Primary Individuals:
  • Carol Ray: Patricia's daughter, portrayed as a chronic liar with a complicated relationship with her mother.
  • Patricia Bennett: The missing mother whose disappearance sparks the investigation.
  • John Bennett: Patricia's concerned grandson who initiates the missing person report.
  • Ricky: Carol's boyfriend, whose role becomes pivotal in the investigation.

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Initial Police Inquiry

The story begins with Carol Ray contacting the police to inquire about her mother's whereabouts. Her initial demeanor appears cooperative, but subtle inconsistencies soon raise red flags.

Notable Quote:

Carol Ray [00:33]: "My son John and him and her are having a little bit of a tiff because he owes her quite a bit of money and he's been trying to call her for 24 hours now."

Narrative: At 00:27, it is established that Carol lives with Patricia and her three-year-old daughter. Carol contacts the police, expressing concern over Patricia's sudden absence, attributing it to a financial dispute with her grandson, John. The police initially consider this a plausible explanation.

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Growing Suspicion

As days pass, further communications reveal discrepancies in Carol's accounts, heightening suspicions about Patricia's true whereabouts.

Notable Quotes:

Carol Ray [01:23]: "Patricia is back living at her house and is currently at the doctor's office getting a monthly shot."

Narrator [04:31]: "At this point, police are completely unaware of the horrifying secrets that lie just feet away from them inside the house."

Narrative: By 04:02, Carol informs the police that Patricia is receiving medical treatment, aligning with her initial statements. However, John's persistent worry leads to a second police visit on January 22 (01:45), where Carol provides more details about Patricia's medical appointments and living arrangements. Despite seeming cooperative, inconsistencies begin to surface.

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Investigation Deepens

John's increasing unease and Carol's conflicting stories prompt the police to scrutinize the situation more intensively.

Notable Quotes:

Carol Ray [05:38]: "Patricia's not supposed to be in today."

Narrator [08:21]: "John's claims are, frankly terrifying. Not only does he suspect his mother of stealing from Patricia and using her money, but he thinks she may have even murdered her."

Narrative: During a follow-up call at 05:38, Carol incorrectly states that Patricia's appointment is on February 13th, conflicting with previous information. John's assertions escalate to the point where he accuses Carol of possible foul play, suggesting she might have murdered Patricia to gain access to her finances and Social Security benefits (08:21). These serious allegations compel the police to take the case more seriously.

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Search and Discovery

Persistent investigation leads the police to conduct a thorough search of Carol's property, culminating in the horrifying discovery of Patricia's body.

Notable Quotes:

Carol Ray [13:13]: "I just went through a really bad domestic violence divorce situation, and CPS up my butt for the past two times."

Narrator [25:38]: "After coming up empty in the backyard, they check the last remaining spot. Carol's garage."

Narrative: Despite Carol's increasingly evasive behavior during multiple visits (13:13), the police obtain consent to search the property with the help of Ricky, Carol's boyfriend (23:45). During the search at 25:38, officers discover Patricia's decomposing body concealed within a storage bin in the garage, accompanied by blood-stained towels. The state of the body indicates that Patricia was murdered approximately two months prior.

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Arrest and Interrogation

With Patricia's body found, Carol and Ricky become the primary suspects. Their subsequent interrogations reveal further complexities in the case.

Notable Quotes:

Carol Ray [28:49]: "Don't want you to implicate anybody that's not implicated. It'll get you in more trouble."

Detective [29:23]: "The goal for this interrogation is not to get Carol to confess, because she obviously did it, but to determine a motive and figure out if Ricky was also involved."

Narrative: Following the discovery, both Carol and Ricky are arrested. During Carol's initial interrogation (29:10), she constructs a narrative of panic-induced accidental murder, claiming she shot Patricia during a supposed break-in. However, inconsistencies arise when Carol fails to mention significant details, such as the deep knife wounds found during the autopsy (37:45).

Ricky's interrogation (41:19) paints him as a supportive yet unaware partner, distancing himself from the crime. His calm demeanor and provision of alibis contrast sharply with Carol's defensive stance, leading detectives to focus primarily on Carol as the perpetrator.

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Conclusion

The meticulous investigation by the police uncovers a web of lies spun by Carol Ray, ultimately leading to the conviction of her for Patricia Bennett's murder. Ricky, although initially a person of interest, is cleared of charges due to lack of evidence implicating him in the crime.

Notable Quotes:

Narrator [42:21]: "This is not the reaction a guilty person would give in this position."

Outcome: Carol is charged with first-degree murder, felony use of a firearm, and larceny of $20,000 or more, facing life in prison. Ricky is released without charges, having demonstrated no direct involvement in the murder despite his proximity to the crime scene.

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Key Insights and Takeaways

• Deception and Manipulation: Carol Ray's ability to fabricate consistent yet false narratives over an extended period highlights the complexities detectives face in uncovering the truth.

• Importance of Persistence: John's unwavering concern and the police's persistence were crucial in bringing the case to fruition, emphasizing the role of dedicated investigation in solving crimes.

• Psychological Profiling: Understanding behavioral cues, such as Carol's changing demeanor and Ricky's calmness, played a significant role in differentiating between the perpetrator and the uninvolved party.

Notable Quote:

Narrator [39:39]: "A gun accidentally going off and killing someone? Unlikely but believable. But two fresh deep knife wounds that Carol hasn't mentioned a single time. It's going to be extremely hard to explain this one away."

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This episode serves as a stark reminder of the dark undercurrents that can exist beneath the surface of everyday relationships and the paramount importance of vigilance and thoroughness in criminal investigations.

Transcript

[Carol Ray]

Hey, you open that? She fit in here. I mean, she's in there. Oh, she's in there. Police department. Police department. Hi, how's it going? Are you Patricia? No, I'm her daughter, Carol.

[Narrator]

This is 50 year old Carol Ray. She lives with her mother Patricia and her three year old daughter.

[Carol Ray]

Is Patricia here? Nope, she's not here right now. She's with her sister. Okay, I'm just asking cause someone was worried. They didn't know where she was at. My son John and him and her are having a little bit of a tiff because he owes her quite a bit of money and he's been trying to call her for 24 hours now. And I gave her the message yesterday.

[Narrator]

This made sense to the cops. Carol's mother Patricia didn't want to deal with her greedy grandson and decided to move out and ignore him. Or at least that's what Carol claimed. Because at this point, police are completely unaware of the horrifying secrets that lie just feet away from them inside the house. And over the course of the next few days, this simple missing persons report would turn into hands down the most gruesome and disturbing case that they had ever worked on.

[Carol Ray]

And then I get a text message from Carol's mom, but it doesn't read like Carol's mom. My grandma just texted me, I guess. Okay, into the cops in my house again. My grandma's not at the house. It's clear that you're not telling us the truth. Where is she at? Carol?

[Narrator]

Following the interaction with Carol the previous night, John would call the police again, slowly becoming more concerned that something had happened to Patricia. So at 11am on January 22, officers would arrive at Carol's house for a second time with the intent to find a conclusive answer to John's worries.

[Carol Ray]

Grandma's Patricia. Mom is Carol. Hi, Are you Carol? Yes. Is Patricia here? No, she's not. She's getting her B12 shot or something like that with Dr. Positive. It's not written down anywhere. In here maybe. I know she writes down. Is Dr. T. Ella old calendar. This little girl, this is my daughter Alice and her granddaughter. Hi. Oh, okay. Does she live here with you? Yeah. Your grandma or your. I'm sorry. Yeah, she's been staying at her sister's house for a couple of. Couple of days because we just got diagnosed with pneumonia and got home from the hospital. I had a diverticulitis that ruptured. Okay, so. So she's back here though. Staying here primarily now close. I mean, all of her clothes and everything are Here. She came by yesterday. And she was here last. Not last night, but night before last. And she was here yesterday for. Until about 5pm and picked up her medications and a fresh change of clothes and stuff like that. Okay. Well, the reason we're here is because your children are concerned about your grandma. My son John, Yeah, he sent you guys over last night, which I contacted my mother about, if she had. And I was going to go down to the Roseville Police Department today about it. Well, there's a little bit of a financial money issue between my mother and my oldest son, John. Okay. And he borrows a lot of money from her, doesn't repay it. He's got a truck in the backyard. She bought him car in the garage that she bought him that she took back because he didn't pay the insurance on it. So my mom is very finicky woman. I see a Bazan now when I goddamn ready to call him, I got things to take care of. Right. Okay. Okay. Okay. How old is your mom? I said she's 69.

[Narrator]

This year, based on Carol's story, Patricia is back living at her house and is currently at the doctor's office getting a monthly shot. Everything lines up. Patricia temporarily stopped communicating with John due to a financial dispute. However, John, being a caring grandchild, got worried something more sinister was at play. It seems like it was just miscommunication. However, officers decide to get all of Patricia's information and check her room just to ensure nothing's off.

[Carol Ray]

All right, where's her room here? It's right back here. Can we just look at it? Yeah. Do you want to see where her clothes are and everything? You want to show them where Grandma B. Stop. I'm sorry, baby. You want to show them where Grandma B's room is? Her room is the last one on the right. Allison's is the first one on the left here. We can let Nailey sleep in this bedroom since Grandma B spent the night already so that she can have her stuff done. All my mom's stuff and all her clothes are in there. All my mom's stuff is right there. All fresh clothes that she just washed. Okay. All right, we're good. We get the call, you know, and then there's one side of the story and then there's the other. So if he's got everyone worked up like he said, he might call someone else might call. And you don't want us showing up here a million times. So we want to just see her in person. Hey, you're fine. That's all we need to do. Okay. Alrighty. Alrighty. Thank you. You're welcome. Have a good day.

[Narrator]

The officers have one simple task to wrap this case up. Simply confirm Patricia is okay with their own eyes. To do this, Officer Pelt decides to call the doctor's office where Patricia is apparently being treated. However, the call doesn't go as planned.

[Carol Ray]

Hi, this is Casey from Woods Cardiology. How can I help you? Hi, this is Officer Pelt with the Roseville Police Department. I'm just calling because I believe you have a patient in your office by the name of Patricia Bennett. And she has some family members that are concerned about her and are trying to just make sure she's there. Nope, she's not here. Her. Actually, they might have got the date mixed up. Her appointment is February 13th. But I'm gonna go ahead and ask a couple of my colleagues just to make sure. Like, did she come here or anything like that? I'm planning on coming there. Nope, she's not supposed to be in today. Nobody's seen, like, she hasn't come in yet or anything like that. But we can watch out and contact you.

[Narrator]

Suddenly, things are starting to misalign. John insists that he thinks Patricia is missing. And now the only person living with her is lying about her current location. Something is definitely not adding up. So officers decide to speak to John again to further investigate the strange situation.

[Carol Ray]

I just don't get why my grandma would make a Facebook post saying she's at home. You guys show up and she's not there. And that was literally two minutes. As soon as you pulled away, she texted my dad, there. There may be other circumstances that we're not aware of or the family's not aware of. I hope I just have a pissed off. So what your expectation is that this woman here is who's your mother, is hiding your grandmother from you? Yeah. For what reason? For a month. She's trying to take the money from her that you think is entitled to you. No. No. Okay. I don't know your grandmother. What? My grandma raised us. Raised you. Okay. Okay. So generally, yes, I'm really concerned in and out of her life. Right. Okay. Mama's never in her life. And I just don't want my grandma to be passed away and she's collecting or hopefully she's just hiding her because she's sick and my grandma's always wants. No, I'd rather have a pissed off grandma than a missing one or a dead one. Well, if she's dead, then. I mean, if she's got a body hiding Somewhere or has done away with her. I mean, and then trying to collect Social Security or whatever she receives. I mean, it takes some effort. My grandma has fraudulent. Has police reports on her. Police reports? When was it with them? A couple years ago. A couple years ago. Okay. And what happened to those charges? I think my grandma decided to not pursue them. Okay. Police. I had, like, lock her up because that's her daughter, but I'm not trying to get her in trouble. But why would you keep lying and lying and lying, but. So that's why I'm thinking that nothing's mad enough. My grandma just texted me again. Okay. Sending cops to my house again. My grandma's not at the house.

[Narrator]

John's claims are, frankly terrifying. Not only does he suspect his mother of stealing from Patricia and using her money, but he thinks she may have even murdered her. Accusing your own mother of committing such a terrible act is something officers need to take seriously. However, there's no evidence to suggest that Carol had even harmed Patricia, let alone killed her. So these claims feel drastic, unfounded, and premature. Officer Jarabik seems to have felt these claims were over the top as well. So he would lead John to the station to file a missing persons report. Additionally, he wants to learn about John's history with Carol and why he thinks she may have killed Patricia. Alongside John would be Carol's ex husband, tj, who claimed to have important information that could help solve the case.

[Carol Ray]

Just gonna record you and I. All right. All right. So when did you physically last see your grandmother eye to eye? Probably after Halloween, beginning of November. Before I went to North Carolina. I came back from North Carolina Thanksgiving. So then it's here. Went there on Christmas. Then it's here. I've been calling her and asking her to call me. I need to hear your voice or have my mom have you call me. I need to hear your voice or I'm gonna do a welfare check. I threatened that a couple weeks ago. All right? Yesterday, I just cracked and finally called it. And now you haven't had any voice contact with her since Thanksgiving? Texted me off her phone or off her Facebook. I know it's not her just because the words they use is not how my grandma talks. When was the last time you saw Carol? I thought I saw Carol, period. Not Carol. Patricia. Oh, okay. I'm like. I'm like, every time I drop my daughter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Patricia. Contact with Patricia. Yes. Yeah, it was around Halloween time. I did receive one text message the other day stating that she was sorry for holding up Carol. Carol and my daughter, we were supposed to hang out because it was my birthday this weekend. Came around 6 o'. Clock. I started texting Carol, like, what the fuck's going on? You know, it's my birthday, we're supposed to be celebrating it. And da ba ba. You, Carol and Allison are supposed to be celebrating on Sunday, your birthday, right? And then I get a text message from Carol's mom, but it doesn't read like Carol's mom, but. But it says, sorry, I'm holding her up, signing over the cars and giving her title to house and insurance stuff. So she cab get that stuff fined Monday. It gets kind of. When Carol types, a lot of times it comes up kind of misspelled. It's because she'll wear glasses and stuff like that. The only contact that you've had with her was from a random message. And she said that she was with my aunt. So I did some research, went there today and spoke my aunt. She hasn't spoken to my grandma since 2015.

[Narrator]

Remember how Carol said that Patricia moved over to live at her sister's house?

[Carol Ray]

Is Patricia here? No, she's not here right now. She's with her sister.

[Narrator]

John visited that house and Patricia's sister claimed that she hasn't seen Patricia in over five years.

[Carol Ray]

And she was messaging me today while we were there with the cops, saying that she was home and messaged my dad that she was home when we know she wasn't there because the cops were there. My dad screenshot them all and sent me those messages. Okay, can you email those to me? One thing I do know, and I mean in this type of situation, I would hope it's more true than it is. The other is I've been. I mean, I've known. Like I said, I've known Carol since I've been 20. I mean, like, bold face, like you can show her like, here's a picture of you. And I have. Here's a picture of you doing this. And da da Zambi. I mean, so she's always been a chronic, chronic liar, especially when she's off for meds, because she does take lots of medicine, longer than I think. Even when we were together. I mean, I'm sure you can get her list of medicines that she was taking, but I guess she lost her therapist. So she has not had medicine for the last couple months. And when that happens, things get kind of wonky with her many other conversations. Calling the house phone, social media, off of messenger, calling her that way, texting her, nothing. And then on 12th of January, my mom texted me off her phone saying, grandma B is sleeping. Getting over ammonia. Here I was like, have her call me. I need to hear her voice. She never does this. She always calls me. And there was no response.

[Narrator]

These interviews help clarify why John would go as far as saying Carol had killed Patricia. She's been lying to them for months. Nobody's been able to see or speak to Patricia, and she happens to have a decent surplus of cash. Cash that the family has been pulling from. And remember, on top of all of that, Carol lied to police about Patricia's whereabouts at the doctor's office. The evidence makes it abundantly clear that Carol's not telling the truth and trying to hide something. And it's likely something horrifying. So police try and visit her house a third and final time. But this time, they aren't leaving without answers.

[Carol Ray]

Hello. Hi. Again. Hi. Is she here now? No, she's up at the Liver Cancer institute getting her B12 shock. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be grapey with you, but where is she at? We're just getting conflicting information. That's why the doctor's office that you told us she went to, she's not there. With Cardiovascular is where she goes. Dr. Tapazu is who treats her leukocytic white blood cell cancer, not the white blood cell cancer. Okay. You said she was at Woods Cardiovascular. What's your daughter's name? Allison. Allison. Getting conflicting information from. It's a nice balloon. Thank you. I can't keep all of them. Which Cardiovascular is where she's been treated? Yeah. So it's where she's been treated for a long time with doctors. And how did she get there? How did she get there? Her sister drives her. You didn't drive her today, so today. And sometimes her neighbor across the street. How did she get there today, though? I believe her sister. Her sister? The sister that lives in Warren? Yes. Okay. But you don't have your sister's number? I don't talk with my aunt or my own. Well, last night, she stayed over there. When the officer came here, she did not speak directly to her? No, you spoke to me. Okay. Because she was at my aunt. She was here? Yes. Right before last. Is that your phone? She was here? Yes. That's when I just hated. Listen, we just want to know where this lady is. I understand, but you guys are upsetting my daughter and you're upsetting me. She doesn't look upset. Because you don't hear what she says when she leaves. I just went through A really bad domestic violence divorce situation, and CPS up my butt for the past two times. We're not here. That's not what we're here for. We're here to find out if your mom's okay. We got a bunch of people who are concerned about her, and no one seems to know where she is. My son's father. My son and his brother. Which. He's got his brother on high alert now. Which his brother's wife was just here yesterday morning. Morning. While my mom was laying on the couch to pick up 200 to do her tabs. For the car. For my son's car. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I can show you a picture of my daughter. She's sending messages telling everyone she's here. She's currently here. No, she's coming back here because she just called. She just called. Why don't you call her right now while we're here? Yeah, and she's on her way. Then shortly we'll be able to resolve this. Turn this back onto her. Yeah, you can see that. I'm actually. Oh, you want to put on speakerphone? Will she answer you? I don't know. She went up there to get her B12 shot.

[Narrator]

Notice the drastic change in Carol's demeanor when she was directly asked to call Patricia. She's no longer deflecting, but rather soft spoken and deliberate with her choice of words. Pay attention to Carol's body language as she's asked more of these direct questions.

[Carol Ray]

I know she's supposed to be calling John because John's the one that started this three, four nights ago. Threatening to call if she didn't talk to him. Yeah, if she didn't talk to him by noon the next day. I had her call before she went to Sam's club. Is it possible? 1145, 1150. Is it possible then that she could just speak with John directly? Yeah. Well, then why hasn't she, like, face to face so that they're at ease? When she said, we're sending messages, do you want to call her again? We were just concerned. I'm sorry. She was talking. You were talking. Phone was ringing. What did you say? Why can't your mother directly speak to John? Not through a message, not through text. She can't. I don't have nothing to do with her and John, though. Well, that's why we're here. I'm getting stuck in the middle of it. Yes, and so are we. So are we. And we have to figure. Do you want to just try to call her again? What's the doctor's office. She's at what's called you. No, the Weber Cancer center is behind Macomb Hospital.

[Narrator]

Coincidentally, Officer Peltz would call this doctor's office. And yet again, Patricia was nowhere to be found. Officer Pelt knew something was off and decided to call in Detective Jarabix to question Carol officially and confront her about her growing list of lies.

[Carol Ray]

If this does go downhill and she starts making any admissions. But stop. Get her to the station, do a search warrant, whatever we have to do from the house. But if she starts. Do you want to do a consented search first so we can gather anything else first? Does she have consent? Yeah, let's see. Let's start out with that. She's already let me go through the house. She go through the garage? I've not been through the garage to check the cars. I just went through the house. This could go south fairly. So she's not. She's at her breaking. Okay. She's Detective Beardowicz. Excuse me. Hi. So we're gonna. I mean, if you don't mind, we'll get consent from you to search the house to see if there's anything that would lead us to think of who she may have went with to help you out, figure out where she is planned. She didn't. She didn't tell you otherwise. Right? You're under the impression she was supposed to be with her sister? Yes. That's what she told you. Who lives in the house? I do. My mom and this little girl for her over. Has she done this in the past? My mom doesn't tell anybody where she. What she does. And you're. But your son seemed pretty concerned that she was indirect. Yeah. Yeah. But she tells you that she's with your assistant. Her assistant. That's got me.

[Narrator]

That's concerning.

[Carol Ray]

Correct. That's got me worried. Not worried, but aggravation. Not answering her phone calls, the people that she says she's. What she's not. Mm. That's gotten. I won't feel right if I leave this house without looking for anything that can point us in the right direction. I want to do my job properly and make sure that. And I guarantee, when she walks back in this door and she finds out that I searched for her through her stuff to help try to find her, she's probably gonna be okay with me. Because that's what most people will be okay with. Correct. I'll open up her bedroom door so you can see her stuff or whatever. I'll unlock power for you so you can look at it and whatever. Or whatever you want to do. I don't want to sign anything and get in trouble. Okay. Nice. All her pains. Okay. When your mom left, did she take, like, a toothbrush, a bag of clothes, like she was spending the night anywhere? She's a person. Yeah. Does she normally sleep over people's house without. Well, she does. She did this time. She has in the past. She does have, obviously, medical issues. Oh, yeah. She's had multiple issues for a while. She takes care. What I'm saying is that. That's also. When we're looking at somebody being missing, it's concerning because anything can happen. When she said copd, she's got. She's had a stroke already. Me and her son. She's out there. I'm trying. I'm more concerned for your mom than you think. I am concerned. I just. I've talked to her and seen her in the past 24, 48 hours and. But now I'm frazzled because she's lied to me about talking to my. And I don't know why she would do that. So. I mean, we're concerned because your mom. Your mom left, but she didn't even pack a bag to go, you know, overnight. She normally won't. Even when she came out to my trailer that I was three, modeling, I'll find four. So for like an overnight, you don't pack, like a. Just a toothbrush, a change of clothes, underwear, any teeth? Obviously, something's going on here. We're fairly certain something's going on. We need to start fresh, and we need to tell you. We need you to tell us exactly what happened. Your story's not ending up. Your story is through it very quickly. You're extremely nervous. Well, yeah. I had the police here last night and today. Carol, obviously something probably happened to your mother, right? You know, something that you're not telling us. That's. That's apparent to us. We're. We're trained investigators. We. We know when something's not right and something isn't right. You have many people outside of you that are concerned about your mother's whereabouts. Where is she at, Carol? I don't know, because she honestly said is what she told me that she left here.

[Narrator]

The detectives haven't cracked Carol yet, but they're extremely close. If they can get verbal consent to search the property, they may be able to find clues to further solve the case or get Carol to reveal more information.

[Carol Ray]

Listen to me. You're lying a lot. Okay? I'm now at a point where I don't believe anything you're saying. Okay. I've now confirmed another part of your story that's wrong. So you need to come clean now. Let me know where your mother's at if she's in this house or in your garage. That she passed away from natural causes or whatever it is, and you didn't want to do anything because maybe you needed some extra money for Social Security or whatever it is. We can get through it. But right now, what you're doing is you're hiding somebody who's possibly dead. Okay? Absolutely not. Carol, she hasn't been in this house in two months, three months. She has. She's got dirty clothes in the laundry room. She's got clean clothes hanging right there. What does that have to do with anything? That's neither here nor there. I mean, what's going on? What's going on in your life? Her hair looks like. Yeah, that's odd, because she left for the night. Wouldn't she want to brush her hair in the morning?

[Narrator]

Carol was caught lying through her teeth multiple times. However, despite all of that, detectives couldn't get the consent to search her property. This leaves them in a tough situation. It's clear Carol is lying and hiding Patricia's whereabouts. But with no solid evidence, they can't be certain of Carol's involvement in the disappearance. But luckily, the police had a trick in mind involving Carol's current boyfriend, Ricky. Since Ricky has been living in the house with Carol, he has the authority to give consent to areas of mutual access in this situation. That allows officers to search the majority of the property, despite Carol's objection to the search. As long as Ricky doesn't have any involvement in Patricia's disappearance, he would have no reason to object to a search of the property.

[Carol Ray]

Hey. How you doing, sir? How about yourself? Not too bad. Are you, Ricky? Yeah. Okay, step back here. Some of these detectives want to talk with you. Detectives? Yeah. What's going on? Oh, they'll. They'll talk with you. When was the last time you saw Patricia? Like, physically saw her in person? Physically saw her. It's probably been about a month. Would you mind coming to the station with us so we can just sit there and talk? Well, we're trying to find. We want to find Patricia, but we're getting. She's lied over at Citrus House. No. How long? She's lied on me. Who's lied on you? Carol cheated on me. Yeah. Cuz she's the one that told me that she was at her sister's house.

[Narrator]

Thankfully, it seems as though Ricky has no idea of the crimes. More importantly, he would agree to a search of the property, granting them access to most of the home if they discover anything serious. They'll need a search warrant to investigate it further. But a cursory look around the property is now fully legal. They begin by searching her backyard and cars.

[Carol Ray]

It.

[Narrator]

After coming up empty in the backyard, they check the last remaining spot. Carol's garage.

[Carol Ray]

Boyfriend's here. Open. That should fit in here. I mean, all right. Bloody towels. There's in here. It's all. It's. She's in there. She's in the house. Oh, she's in there. Open up. Let's see. Hold on. I don't know. Hold on. I don't know. I'm not just. Nah, I know he's looking. He's looking at not nothing. I think we. I opened up that grave then, and it's full of bloody towels. It stinks like a dead body. Are you kidding me? Swear to God. You got to get the search warrant, huh? For what? If it's in there, Bor wants. For what? If they're searching for the body? Yes. If there's a bloody pillow in here. Sorry. Yeah, there's a body. Where you see the legs in the far corner. Okay, I'll go pick this thing up. Somebody said he was back here, so he needs to. Everybody needs. That's a boyfriend. He just showed up. They've been looking for. Hi, Lieutenant. I just opened up a big plastic storage bin and smelled really bad. It was full of blood and towels, and you can see a body in there. So it's kind of where we're at. All right, we hook her, bring her in. What about. Everybody was saying, people, the brothers. We need to find out what they were telling officers, because they were saying he was like, in the backpack there yesterday. It was coming and going. Somebody. There is still moisture on the top of that. I open it, and there's still moisture on the top. So that's not been in there long. And there was somebody we got to talk to over there. They said, hey, you know, the door was open yesterday, and he was coming and going, and then all of a sudden, his car was gone. This dude whose boyfriend is he. This is the mom, the daughter. I say we bring him in.

[Narrator]

Not only had they found Patricia's deceased body in the storage bin, but the body still wasn't dry, meaning the murder couldn't have been more than two months ago. As John originally suspected, this terrifying scene couldn't have made the truth more clear. Carol Ray had killed her mother and had been covering it up for weeks. However, she may not have been the only one involved in this. Ricky had been staying at the house for months now, and the cops believe he had to have known about the murder if he'd been living beside it the entire time. With this in mind, police place Carol under arrest immediately and detain Ricky, too.

[Carol Ray]

Carol, go ahead and stand up for me. Grandpa Jane's hand back. Okay. I think you know why we're going, but I suggest you what I think about what you need to tell us. Okay. I might have my knife on me over there.

[Narrator]

Following Carol and Ricky's arrest, both would sit in a jail cell while they waited for detectives to arrive at the station. Multiple hours later, they would bring Carol in for her first interrogation.

[Carol Ray]

Obviously, Carol, we're here to talk to you about what's going on here. The further we let this keep rolling, the further it's gonna get without you being able to, you know, shed some light on this. Okay.

[Narrator]

The goal for this interrogation is not to get Carol to confess, because she obviously did it, but to determine a motive and figure out if Ricky was also involved.

[Carol Ray]

If I say something and it comes out wrong for something like this because it was an accident, I'm just explain. You explain the truth, and it will come out as the truth. I'm. I'm not. I can't give you advice, but if you want to tell your story, you can tell it how it is. I don't have to ask you any questions. If you want to get it out, you can do that at the same time, once I tell you your rights. If you don't want to talk, you don't have to talk. That night, we were sleeping between 1am and 4am in the morning, and I heard loud. Baby. My daughter and I were sleeping in my room in the back. My mom was sleeping on the couch. Anyways, there was a big crash, and it sounded like someone was breaking through the glass window or breaking down the door in the living room. I grabbed my gun. I remember running down the hallway and had my training finger on the trigger. That could. Idiot. I went up running my walking mask down the hallway, and I hit with my right foot to the. And it went on doing the rash up her shoulder. And then I heard gurgling, and I screamed. Mom pulled her on the floor, and I noticed this energy coming out of her mouth. But I find somebody broke in the window or something like that. There was a huge, loud crash.

[Narrator]

If a suspect is highly emotional when recalling an event, they Will often have trouble remembering certain details in that moment. You'll often notice the suspect unable to form full sentences and stuttering in their speech. But Carol shows none of this. While crying, she manages to form a detailed timeline of how she killed Patricia. This implies that her story of events may be inaccurate and the murder wasn't a mistake like she claims. Now that they've heard it, however, the detectives would be able to search for evidence that explicitly countered this story. And that didn't take them long at all. The very next day, they brought Carol back out of her cell and into the interrogation room again. Throughout this interview, see if you can spot the information that the detectives found specifically for this conversation and watch how they use it to break her story apart.

[Carol Ray]

Going off of what you said yesterday, I know said you're walking down the hallway rather quickly. If you heard a noise, get the gun in your hand, the Ruger, you're walking the owls right there, you tripped, you the gun. You had your finger on the trigger, Then the gun went off. Correct. You saw your rumble. And then I think he said, you saw coming to me out of her mouth.

[Narrator]

The cops are clearly trying to come across as understanding and compassionate to Carol. But if their main goal was to make her feel comfortable, they wouldn't have sat her in the corner of the room room and position themselves between her and the door. They want to eventually make her feel so cornered and pressured that she lets go of the truth. So for now, this nice guy demeanor is a complete act for the detective to build rapport as he tries to get her to talk as much as possible.

[Carol Ray]

So after that happened, obviously, we found your mom in a container in the garage. Now, obviously, my concern is kind of understand how she got there. But you gotta explain to me, because to me, it seems like you're back and everything that you can do this by yourself. So can you walk me through? I understand, obviously, panic, everything sets in, you're freaking out, and it's your mother you love, right? And so David's waking up kind of walk me through the minute after all that happened. Let me ask you this, Was Ricky there that night?

[Narrator]

Remember, an important part of this interrogation was to figure out if Carol's boyfriend Ricky was also involved to any extent. At the moment, Carol is claiming that he wasn't on the scene at all. As they'd recently had a number of arguments. The cops would have a chance to interview him later on. But for now, there's one question regarding him that they just can't seem to get their heads around.

[Carol Ray]

Okay, so Elton was leaving a view. Ricky wasn't there, the baby waiting out. What happened? Did you leave your mom on the couch? Did you move her somewhere else? Obviously we're operating under panic, right? I mean, I. I can picture myself in a situation. Panic. You got your daughter there. Where did you move? When? Where did you move from the house to where first we found her in the garage. She moved anywhere before the garage? Directly in the garage. So this is where I. This is where I started with Ricky. Mom. And I know this is a hard detail to get through, but picking up your mom, there's no way you're picking up. How did you do that by yourself? Just think, Ricky's birthday. Are you afraid to tell us? Are you afraid of Ricky? You don't have to be afraid to be afraid. I promise. You're scared, aren't you?

[Narrator]

Carol remained completely silent for almost 30 seconds after she was asked this question. The cops are right to assume that she's scared, but it might not be for the reasons they think. She could be scared of Ricky and the consequences of implicating him in the crime, but she could also be terrified of the situation she's in. She's going to jail for a very long time. There's no escaping that anymore, and that's a scary reality for her. Whatever the reason is, though, the cops are still doing their best to give her a moral excuse or justification for what she did, so she'll talk a little more. She panicked. And anyone would have done the same. The best thing she can do to make things right is to tell them exactly what happened.

[Carol Ray]

I mean, you know, people panic. People make mistakes. Yeah. I mean, you know. You know what happens most often, you know, when you flee from an accident? You know, it happens all the time when people panic. Right. See, someone gets in a car accident, they. They smash into a car and they take off leapers and end up dying. They hear that on the news, and then the lines keep going and they're like, shit, I should have stayed, but I didn't. Right? That's a mistake that you made or should have made. I don't want to keep revisiting, but I have to. How did you get the tote out of Cheetah Fest? All that stuff in the garage, Is it possible somebody else could have moved it for you?

[Narrator]

The cops are really focusing on Carol's inability to physically move Patricia to the garage. As to them, it was a clear sign that somebody else had to be involved. But at this point, they're not getting anywhere. Unfortunately, this isn't conclusive enough evidence to implicate anyone else. And it's not getting Carol to talk.

[Carol Ray]

But.

[Narrator]

But that's okay because the detectives have one piece of evidence that they've been saving for this very moment that could prove without a doubt that everything Carol's said so far has been a total lie.

[Carol Ray]

The other thing I wanted to bring up is they actually did an autopsy in the mom. They found some punctuals in her neck. Three controls now that old scar. But actual pressure from trains her neck. How did those get there with anything after the fact? I'm not saying you're killing her, but like you know what I'm saying. I'm saying I don't maybe growl if she was suffering or anything like that. But here's what I don't want to get caught up is that once they tell us exactly how deep they were, if it was a cause of death or contributed to cause of death, it could be really we have to get everything out here now to try to do something with those wounds that don't cause those wounds or anything like that. So I want you to think right now, what could have possibly caused those? Puncture ulcer. I don't know if she had testing or anything like that. I didn't have anything. Preliminary puncture, the end of a night.

[Narrator]

A gun accidentally going off and killing someone. Unlikely but believable. But two fresh deep knife wounds that Carol hasn't mentioned a single time. It's going to be extremely hard to explain this one away. Not only does this imply the murder was completely intentional, but the fact that Carol hasn't mentioned it means that she knew that was the case and wanted to try to cover that part up again.

[Carol Ray]

I wanted my words in your mouth. Don't want you to implicate anybody that's not implicated. That'll get you in more trouble. It'll get you more trouble. But as we sit and investigate and continue to investigate in the days and weeks, months to come, more things are going to come up. I'm pretty certain of it. To bring them eventually. What happened? Some very familiar model means I met. Did he say anything to you that lead you to believe that he knew? Did you actually not have a mistake? Did you actually mean to kill your mother? Well, I did not mean to kill my mother. Well, I'm not saying that. That's all I'm saying. I'm saying. Do you understand where. When these things can't be answered. That's kind of odd. Can I ask you this? What's going on with punch rooms. Could you freak down after. After you shot her and she was still breathing and you wanted to make sure at this point it's no good for her to be like this? Absolutely not. I wouldn't know. Absolutely not. Did you maybe you kind of help her to see. Like this sounds terrible, but like, is she alive? Is she saying owing all my room? Okay.

[Narrator]

At this point, the interrogation has been going on for over an hour, and Carol clearly doesn't intend to deviate from her story. Despite all the new evidence, the detectives are still no closer to obtaining a confession or any information about Ricky from her. So they figure they've got no choice but to speak to the man himself. So later that day, they bring Ricky in for an interview of his own and attempt to get the truth out of him, whatever it may be.

[Carol Ray]

Do you have any idea what's going on? No, I don't. You have no clue? Somebody at the house said some mug. And if not at her sister's house, where Carol was telling me that she was sad. When was the last time you physically seen Patty? You guys call her Patricia? Yeah, Patty, Patricia, and then we call her Patty. I physically seen her about, I think it was like a month and a half ago. It was before Thanksgiving. How often do you stay at the house? Signed Congress. Every day. Been there, except for if it was late. He'd been nice going home with obscures. So you've been staying there every day? Yeah.

[Narrator]

Already Ricky is being much more open and giving much better answers to all of the detectives questions. He also seems exceedingly calm and as though he's just trying to help the officers out. Right now he definitely isn't coming across as a murder accomplice or blackmailer, but there's still plenty of time for the cops to catch him out.

[Carol Ray]

What about Carol? Does she work? Does she have a job? Does she not go anywhere? What does she do with most of her days? Most of her days? Keeping Allison busy, cleaning the house, doing what she can. She needs some major surgeries. Any financial issues with you or Carol or Patty or anything? No, nothing. Carol took care of the bills. You know where she had the money to if she's not working, then. She said she had a joint bank account of her mouth. Carol been acting strange or suspicious to you or different? She's bipolar. So yes. I always said that she was the world's greatest actress because I can't tell when she's being sincere or not. I've been conditioned to bipolar. Very impulsive hairs caught. Monitor webs before. I've been telling her she's been feeling more distant. Ricky, I mean, I don't really necessarily know you, obviously, but you seem pretty nervous to me. What's. What's going on? Is there something you're nervous about? I'm not nervous about anything. Where did you sleep? Mostly in the bedroom with Carol. Carol's bedroom. Where did. Sometimes I was mostly in her bedroom. Let me ask you about the garage. You ever go in the garage? Yeah. Never. When's the last time you think you were in the garage or on the crunches? I think we went to go look for a screwdriver. Geez, I don't even know. I think it was early December. We'll spend time some.

[Narrator]

Compared to Carol's interrogation, this one seems extremely laid back and relaxed. It feels as though there's a big chance Ricky genuinely just doesn't know what's going on. However, the cops do pick up on the fact that he's a little nervous. He's finding it hard to look the detectives in the eyes, and he seems a little soft spoken. So to clear things up fully, they decide to put the pressure on big time to see if he breaks.

[Carol Ray]

Ricky, we got a problem. We had a real big problem. I think you know what it is, and I think you need to be honest and upfront with us. So we're going to give you the opportunity now. Tell us what really happened. That's what happened. What happened? What I told you. I'm not. I'm not talking about the little details we've been asking you. I'm talking about What, Ken? Patty. I don't know. She's been at her sister's house as far as I know. We know Patty's deceased. Patty's got a gunshot wound to her and she was found in a tote in that garage. So you have to tell us everything you know so you don't implicate yourself anymore than Mr. Hidden. Because here's the thing, Ricky. There's things. There's investigative tools we have. We're going to find out exactly when she died, where you were when she died, which I'm betting you were in that house. And you know exactly what happened. Nobody knows. I'm not seeing a problem with her. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying you know something. I don't. I don't know anything, I swear. You don't know? This woman. This woman, Carol, she has f. With my head. She has cheated on me behind my back without me knowing about it. The only way I found out about it was tripping over stuff, finding it on accident, her showing me something on her phone. Then all of a sudden, I love you too, baby pops up on her phone. Why are you with it? We went to counseling this year. Tried to make things work. Because I love her. I love Alice. And since she's my own, I really do.

[Narrator]

This is not the reaction a guilty person would give in this position. He's never defensive, and he never gets annoyed. He just tries to explain things exactly as they are. He's not upset that he's been caught. It feels like he's upset that he'd ever be accused of this. He also gave a few pieces of information that could be backed up by the detectives, such as the fact that Carol had been cheating on him and that they'd been in therapy in just five minutes. Detectives went from assuming him to be the main accomplice to completely discounting him as a suspect. Carol, however, completely stayed in the spotlight. And it was eventually assumed that she acted alone and with intent in Patricia's murder. It was determined that Carol killed Patricia all the way back in November. And hid her body for roughly two months before John had caught onto her act. Although Carol never verbally controlled, confessed to the crimes, she was charged with first degree murder, felony use of a firearm, and larceny of $20,000 or more. She faces life in prison. Ricky was let go with no charges.