Deep Dive: From Stay-at-Home Mom to What?

Summary

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Dr. Laura Call of the Day

Episode: Deep Dive: From Stay-at-Home Mom to What?

Date: October 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this "Deep Dive" episode, Dr. Laura Schlessinger focuses on the emotional, psychological, and practical challenges faced by stay-at-home moms when their children become independent and leave home. The episode features heartfelt calls from women navigating "empty nest syndrome" and offers Dr. Laura’s signature mix of tough love, encouragement, and practical advice to help them redefine their identities and find purpose as they enter a new chapter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shifting Identity After Full-Time Parenting

(01:10–05:24)

• Dr. Laura champions the importance and value of stay-at-home mothers, referencing her book In Praise of Stay at Home Moms.
• Callers express fear, anxiety, and grief as their primary parenting role winds down.
• Dr. Laura normalizes these feelings but cautions against melodrama, emphasizing that this transition is a common and natural experience.
  • “You have no place in the world right now. I’ve got to build you a new. You have to build a new place. It’s not complicated. … Millions of women make this transition all the time. Don’t get melodramatic about it.” (03:25)

2. Finding a New Place & Building the Next Chapter

(03:06–06:23)

• Dr. Laura urges listeners to actively pursue something new: learn, take up a new course, develop new interests.
• The importance of shifting perspective: instead of mourning the loss, treat it as the opening of new opportunities.
  • “It opened up my world—new things to do, new things to learn. Plus, I’m still a mom. … But it isn’t like it was when he was a kid at home.” (04:17)

3. Maintaining Healthy Boundaries with Grown Children

(06:39–07:47)

• Caller considers moving to follow her son to college, and Dr. Laura emphatically advises against it to avoid stifling his independence.
  • “Leave him alone. Don’t you dare become an annoying mother, please.” (07:01)
  • “You raised him so he would have a life. You didn’t raise him so you could suck his life dry.” (07:40)

4. Redefining “Empty Nest Syndrome”

(07:49–10:56)

• Dr. Laura challenges the notion that becoming an empty nester is a disaster, instead positioning it as a positive transformation.
  • “I do not subscribe to the belief that children going up and out is some kind of disability or disaster. … Think of it more as a shift.” (07:49)
  • Emphasizes the opportunity for renewed relationships—with grown kids, with husbands, and with oneself.

5. Addressing Feelings of Being Unappreciated or Unneeded

(10:56–14:08)

• Callers discuss feeling invisible or unneeded by teenage children.
• Dr. Laura reassures that parental presence is always valued, though it may go unexpressed—especially with sons.
  • “Teenage boys in that age are not going to slobber over you like a daughter. … They look up and they see you’re there and they like it.” (11:47)
• Encourages mothers to cultivate new hobbies or volunteer roles if they feel unfulfilled or bored.

6. Transitioning Is Not the End—It’s a Different Role

(14:11–18:41)

• Discussion about never fully “moving on” from motherhood, just changing how that role is expressed.
  • “You have no idea how hearing your mom’s voice when you’re in the middle of gunfire… you’re always going to be tapped into, but right now you’re getting close to that transition.” (14:34)
• Importance of intergenerational wisdom—older women guiding younger through these transitions.

7. Embracing Uncertainty and Opportunity

(22:36–24:56)

• Dr. Laura frames uncertainty as a space for excitement and new possibilities.
  • “Uncertainty freaks a lot of people out, but what’s unknown could turn out to be amazing. Embracing it means taking a risk that’s uncomfortable. It’s basically a choice: be miserable or uncomfortable—and with incredible possibilities.” (22:36)
• Highlights the value of exercise and volunteering to regain a sense of purpose.

8. The Power of Helping Others to Find Fulfillment

(23:55–25:59)

• Shares an anecdote about the transformative power of helping others.
  • “You never know who’s being helped more, the helper or the helped. … Reaching out and helping others is good for empty nesters. … You immediately feel needed, valued, valuable, worthy, necessary.” (23:56)
• Encourages mothers to weave together different sources of meaning after children leave home.

9. Real-Life Success Stories: Transition Done Well

(25:59–28:01)

• Caroline calls to share her journey of going back to work after 18 years as a stay-at-home mom.
  • “While my kids were in school, I took online classes and I educated myself. … To all those moms that are there who question it, I’m here to say that it works. After 18 years, today was my birthday back at work.” (26:17)
• Dr. Laura celebrates Caroline's success and reiterates that “me” never goes away, it simply evolves.

10. Defining Parental Success

(31:12–32:06)

• Dr. Laura sums up:
  • “One of the toughest things about being a parent is that you’re raising the ones you feel you can’t live without to be able to live without you. But as I like to say, a good mother works herself out of a job. … Then it becomes time for you to get to be self-focused. That’s a good thing.” (31:12)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On moving forward:
  • “This is just another chapter in the book. We each have a book to our lives, and it has chapters. Stop the crying.” — Dr. Laura (04:17)
• On unhealthy attachment:
  • “Don’t make him feel obligated to you at this time in his life. That would be terrible.” — Dr. Laura (07:19)
• On finding fulfillment:
  • “If not, you’re going to be one giant pain in the ass to your kids.” — Dr. Laura (09:28)
• On parental significance:
  • “If you died tomorrow, your family would plunge into the biggest depression ever seen.” — Dr. Laura (13:38)
• On evolving identity:
  • “Me is just a different phase of me. … Me never left.” — Dr. Laura (27:39)
• On parenting success:
  • “A good mother works herself out of a job. If she doesn’t, her kids are snowflakes. So you’ve done it right if you make yourself relatively useless; then it becomes time for you to get to be self-focused. That’s a good thing.” — Dr. Laura (31:23)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Main theme and first caller: Transition shock — [01:06–05:24]
• Healthy boundaries after kids leave — [06:39–07:47]
• Redefining “empty nest” and positive future focus — [07:49–10:56]
• Feelings of inadequacy as kids need less — [11:00–14:08]
• Role evolution and readiness to transition — [14:11–18:41]
• Strategies for handling uncertainty — [22:36–24:56]
• The value of helping others — [23:55–25:59]
• Success story—Caroline’s transition back to work — [25:59–28:01]
• Final thoughts on parental purpose and self-focus — [31:12–32:06]

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Tone and Takeaways

• Dr. Laura’s style is candid, direct, and infused with humor, realism, and support. She pushes callers (and listeners) to embrace personal accountability and refuse to wallow.
• The episode reassures mothers that while the end of hands-on parenting is emotional, it’s full of potential. By building a new purpose and self-identity, parenting success is embodied in raising independent children and then finding fulfillment anew.

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Summary prepared for listeners seeking clarity, practical advice, and encouragement on navigating the transition from full-time motherhood to the next life chapter.

Transcript

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Laura's deep dive Podcast Parents who make.

Raising their kids a priority are my heroes. I wrote a happily best selling book called In Praise of Stay at Home Moms to celebrate and to buoy the underappreciated, little respected, even controversial parents. Mostly moms who make the important decision to be home full time. Some do it just for the first crucial five years while others dedicate themselves to raising their kidlets for the duration of their childhoods. Needless to say, after pouring so much of yourself into another human being, it can be a shock to the system once that child grows up and moves out, how do you shift gears after devoting years to being a full time mom? That's what Melissa wanted to know when we spoke.

Melissa, welcome to the program.

[Melissa (Caller)]

Oh Dr. Laura, great. Okay, here's my question. I have been a stay at home mom for 20 years. I've listened to you all the time and I've gotten to the point now where I can answer my own questions just because of the way you've taught me how to think basically.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Good.

[Melissa (Caller)]

Here's my issue. My oldest graduated nursing school. She's amazing. My third is in college right now in the next state over. My third child is a senior in high school and he has accepted an amazing scholarship across the country. I have always been a stay at home mom for 22 years. I don't know how not to be a stay at home mom and I'm.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Go take a course. Go take a course.

[Melissa (Caller)]

A course. Well, I take exercise classes, I volunteer, I do things.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Go take a course. That's the stuff you were doing Beforehand. Anyway, go take a course, learn something new.

[Melissa (Caller)]

And this anxiety will go away.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Yes, because you'll be busy learning something new. You don't, you haven't. You have no place in the world right now. I've got to build you a new. You have to build a new place. It's not complicated. And you'll do it and it'll be fine. Millions of women make this transition all the time. Don't get melodramatic about it. It's totally understandable. It's like a guy working for a company, for example, for 25 years and then being fired or retiring, sort of stands there and goes, now what the hell am I supposed to do? This was my identity. This was who I was. This was my schedule on a daily basis. So now it changes. I personally did not have one moment of that anxiety. Not even 60 seconds.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Oh my God.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Not 60 seconds. Because it opened up my world. New things to do, new things to learn. Plus, I'm still a mom. We text and or talk every day. I still have a place, but it isn't like it was when he was a kid at home. But you're still involved. That never ends. Whether you like it or not, it doesn't end. And then they get married and then they make kids, and then you're a mother in law and a grandma. And so you always have a place to go. But right now you've got to find another dream. So stop the crying. Because this is just another chapter in the book. We each have a book to our lives and it has chapters. Stop the crying.

[Melissa (Caller)]

I'm not sure I want to.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Stop the crying. Stop the crying. You don't have a choice.

[Melissa (Caller)]

I know.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

So stop the crying. It's a beautiful thing. We finished one incredible chapter and it was incredible.

[Melissa (Caller)]

Oh, God, it was.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

And now we're going to have yet another incredible chapter and then another one.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Okay, I'm going to trust you on this?

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Yes. Trust me.

Been there, done this.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Okay.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

It's jarring to your system. I understand that. I am not faulting you. This is normal. And then you got to stop the whining and the crying and find what your new chapter is about. Because it's very exciting. I have no idea what it is. Maybe you're going to go to nursing school. I have no idea. I have no idea what you're going to do next.

[Melissa (Caller)]

It's very exciting and scary.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

No, it isn't.

There's nothing scary.

What's to be scared about?

[Melissa (Caller)]

I don't know. My identity has been completely in my children.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

That's right.

That's correct. And it still is. You're still a mother, you're still a wife. Now you got time free to add some stuff to it. You're still a mother, you're still a wife. Now you're going to add to it.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Okay, here's one more question to that.

[Melissa (Caller)]

I have the ability to purchase an additional home in the state that my son will be living in. And I could live there part time, perhaps. You know, I mean.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

No, no. Leave him alone.

[Melissa (Caller)]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Don't you dare become an annoying mother, please.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Okay, My excuse was that he's an.

[Melissa (Caller)]

Athlete and I could be there during his sport.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

You did that already.

[Caroline (Caller)]

I know.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Leave him alone. Don't do that to him. Don't make him feel obligated to you at this time in his life. That would be terrible.

[Melissa (Caller)]

Okay.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Oh, my mommy can't handle it. I have to go. No, I can't do that. I can't do that. I gotta go take care of my mommy. Please don't do that.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Okay?

[Melissa (Caller)]

I won't do that to him.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

No, you raised him so he would have a life. You didn't raise him so you could suck his life dry.

[Melissa (Caller)]

Oh, you're right.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

In the 1970s, sociologists popularized the term empty nest syndrome. I do not subscribe to the belief that children going up and out is some kind of disability or disaster. Most of us can go through transitions in life and come out of them just fine. Menopause, retirement, even the passing of someone important. But I do agree that people who have made their whole identity being somebody's mother will feel discombobulated when they're no longer dealing with kids day in and out. There's a big hole left behind when the chickies leave the nest. But. But it doesn't have to be a crisis. Think of it more as a shift. The kids are no longer at home. But that doesn't have to be a negative thing. The transition can and should be comforting and even exciting. This is your opportunity to establish a new kind of relationship with your kids. You can become more of a mentor and less of a supreme deity. It's also a time where husbands and wives can go off and enjoy life together again, with their schedules being their own again. In general, I'd say it's atypical to suffer greatly when you become an empty nester. A bit sad around the eyeballs, yeah, but disaster time, no. Still, I get calls from women saying, I don't know how not to be a mom. You don't stop, but you do get friends, hobbies, work. You plan adventures. If not, you're going to be one giant pain in the ass to your kids. Callers tell me they don't think traveling, volunteering, or planting a garden will be fulfilling. They're scared that nothing will fill them up when the kids leave. To that, I say just one thing doesn't satisfy me either. It's okay to weave lots of things together to create your next meaningful chapter. You'll have to search for what that will be for you. Besides, you have a moral obligation to come up with things to do with your spouse, by yourself, with your friends and the new people you'll meet. That's how you continue being a good mother in this next phase of life. You're not being fair to your kids if you don't make that happen. Mommy's so sad, so lost, doesn't know what to do. That's not fair to do to your kids. You don't want to do that to them. Come on. When I spoke to Kim, she was starting to feel the angst of not being needed by our kids as much as she was when they were little. Before they're up and out is a good time to start planning your next chapter in life, as we discussed in this call.

Kim, welcome to the program.

[Melissa (Caller)]

Hi, Dr. Laura. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Thank you.

[Melissa (Caller)]

I'm 50 years old. I've been married for 23 years. I have two teenage boys, a senior and a sophomore in high school. My question is I'm at a crossroads where my boys still are at home. They are involved in various things and I like to be there for them. I've been a stay at home mom the entire time with them. But they're at a point where, you know, they don't really appreciate me. They don't really acknowledge if I'm at their events or not. But they like, you know, they need a ride and stuff. But so I have a sense I want to move on, but I also want to be there for my.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Okay, ma', am. Teenage boys in that age are not going to slobber over you like a daughter.

[Melissa (Caller)]

They do not.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Yes, they look up and they see you're there and they like it. Are they going to slobber over you for being there? No, this is not about them. This is about your board. So I suggest, in addition to doing all the proper motherly things that are required and kids die to have, you might want to have a new hobby.

[Melissa (Caller)]

I try to do like I work out And I volunteer.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

I said you need a new hobby. Obviously, whatever it is that you're doing is insufficient. You're bored. So maybe you could volunteer in a preemie ward and then you'd feel needed. But your boys absolutely love to know that you're there. Are they ever going to admit it?

No.

Y, X, Y Chromosomes.

[Melissa (Caller)]

I guess if I move on, but I wonder then, will I?

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

There is no moving on. And I'm not going to indulge you when you're moving on. Nonsense. Fantasy. What do you think there's. I tell you what. When you think the grass is greener, you got to water your own lawn. Because you're going to find out there's same crab. Crabgrass everywhere.

[Melissa (Caller)]

Like to get a job and stuff like that. That kind of moving on. Or like to start my own life now.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

This is your own. This is your own life. What are you talking about? Get a job where you can be replaced overnight by anybody. You consider that important?

[Melissa (Caller)]

No.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

If you died tomorrow, your family would plunge into the biggest depression ever seen.

[Caroline (Caller)]

They would?

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Yes. Because that's how important you are. Do they tell you that?

No.

Why? XY chromosomes. It gets a little dicier when they get girlfriends and get married.

[Melissa (Caller)]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Then you get replaced. Then you move. Quote on.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Okay, okay.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

But you got to turn them over to some other woman. Here, you take them. I'm going to be a ski instructor.

[Melissa (Caller)]

I can see the next phase, but I just can't figure out when I can get there.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

When they are up and out of the house.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Okay.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

And you're close, you'll still be very significant. I got satellite calls from Afghanistan when my kid was at war. You have no idea how hearing your mom's voice when you're in the middle of gunfire. Well, he wouldn't call in the middle of a gunfight, but you know what I mean.

[Melissa (Caller)]

No, I remember when he was there.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Yeah. And then suddenly you realize, gee, I am still important. Wow. Gee.

[Melissa (Caller)]

Okay.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

And that's why women have to talk to each other. I'm older than you. I've been through it all. I can tell you, if you weren't in the stands, they'd be upset.

[Melissa (Caller)]

I don't regret one bit of it. Not one bit.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Good. You will have to. You know, I have a whole bunch of new things that I do. My kid's going to be married at the end of August. I've turned him over to Tracy. She is his problem. I'm off duty still. You get the calls. What do you think about this you know, they always check, okay, you're the matriarch of the family. You'll be important in just different ways.

[Melissa (Caller)]

I feel like I'm an embarrassment right now.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

No, don't be silly. That's why younger women need to talk to older women. In the olden days, when we all lived in one small area, this was everyday conversation. Now you have to call a radio show to get it.

[Melissa (Caller)]

I know, because there's not many people like this.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

No, but you know what? I've been there, gone through this. I know you're antsy. You're feeling like, you know, I just loved when he was 5.

[Melissa (Caller)]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Because every breath he took had to do with Mama. And then if we do a good job of mothering, they don't have to do that anymore. I remember the first day of kindergarten, I thought, if he screams and cries at the door, I'm going to be so embarrassed that my kid can't walk into a kindergarten class. If he doesn't scream and cry, I'm going to be desolate because he can just walk away from me. So there was no good answer. So I remember the moment he turned, big grin, waved, turned away, walked right in. And I thought, this is good, right? Well, the next thing, they finish high school, then they finish college, then they do whatever they're doing, then they get married, then they make kids, and then they call you. What do we do when the kid does such and such. So you're always going to be tapped into, but right now you're getting close to that transition time where they're not going to show how they need you.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Okay.

[Melissa (Caller)]

Okay. Thank you.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

So hang in there. It's a transition time. They're always a little antsy. Try not going to a game and seeing how long it takes them to go, oh, why weren't you at the game?

[Melissa (Caller)]

I don't know if I could miss one.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Well, try one. It's like playing hooky. One time, you'll see how bad it is. They'll miss you. Of course, they take it for granted. They should, because you're there. They don't have to worry.

[Melissa (Caller)]

I have been right.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

And that's part of why they are the good guys. They are.

[Melissa (Caller)]

I guess, on the other hand, I just want to get in the car and just drive away. Okay, I'm done now.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

No, you're not. You're never done. Not a day that goes by I don't get a text about something. Oh, look, I did this. You know, an accomplishment, something fun. You're always in there and don't stop laying those seeds.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Okay?

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Okay. You're not done yet?

Okay, I have to take a break. I'd like you to sit and think about how scary and then later, exciting it was when you made a change. Wow. I'll be right back.

Dr. Laura's Deep Dive podcast.

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[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Deep Dive podcast Uncertainty freaks a lot of people out, but what's unknown could turn out to be amazing. Embracing it means taking a risk that's uncomfortable. It's basically a choice. Be miserable or uncomfortable. And with incredible possibilities. You need a strategy. Have a plan in place. Because while fear takes away focus, focus can take away fear. When people are down in the dumps, one of the things I tell them is to exercise. Second thing I suggest is volunteer work and my peeps found this cute story I wanted to share. A young man was near the end of his rope when a frail, humped over old man stopped him on a street corner and asked him for his help in crossing the street. The young man, burdened with his own problems, somewhat reluctantly took the old man's arm and led the old man across the street. When they got to the other side, the old man, with a broad smile asked the young man if the young man was feeling better.

Huh?

The young man, first taken aback by the question, pondered it and realized he had indeed begun to feel better. The old man chuckled and said to the young man I'm not as helpless as I look, but I told myself, there is a young man who needs to help someone who is worse off than he is. The old man then proudly proceeded to walk unaided across the street. As the young man stood there, he realized that he had thought about nothing but himself in the last several weeks. You never know who's being helped more, the helper or the helped. What's important to know is that reaching out and helping others is good for empty nesters. And really anyone. The point of doing something for someone else is that you immediately feel needed, valued, valuable, worthy, necessary. What we all want to feel, what we felt when parenting our young kids, we can get by helping others. So the empty nest can be just what it says, a dreadful event filled with emptiness and boredom, or can be an exciting time of new beginnings, renewing old friendships, hobbies, interests, creating new directions for creative life. It's a choice. Kids growing up is a transition you have to tackle. They're making a transition at only 18, 19 and 20, and they need you to be a good role model for how to handle change. Sure, it'll take some time. You may feel awkward, sad, strange, but this is your opportunity to experience more of life. My listener Caroline had heard me say this and called in to share how she handled her kiddos going to college. Carolyn, welcome to the program.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Hi, good afternoon, Dr. Laura. It's funny that you just read that letter because I'm calling to thank you because today was my first day back at work after 18 years of being a stay at home mom.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

You're kidding.

Oh my gosh, talk about timing.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Well, when I first called in, I was like literally beaming because I was so excited. And now after being on hold, I'm kind of crying because, you know, this is the second half of my life. Like, it's amazing. And I can only thank you for it because you've showed me after listening to all these years, that if you pay attention to what you have in front of you and you make plans and you have a goal, they're easy to obtain. I. While my kids were in school, I took online classes and I educated myself. And it's just, it all happens. It all happens in its own time. And thank you. Thank you for not letting me give up. Thank you for constantly being on my butt about being a good mom and a good wife and it's all worked out. So to all those moms that are there who question it, I'm here to say that it works. After 18 years, today was my birthday back at work. Thank you.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

And how. How does it feel?

[Caroline (Caller)]

It's amazing. Definitely amazing. I feel like I've accomplished so much in one day because, you know, my. I just dropped my daughters off at college and last weekend, and now it's time for me to live my life. After knowing that I did a good job with them, it's time for me to be me again.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Well, me is just a different phase of me.

Me never left.

[Caroline (Caller)]

It's taking a different form now.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

That's it.

Me is a different form. But you never stop being me. Don't get crazy on me.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Thank you so much. I really appreciate you.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

You're welcome. And congratulations.

[Caroline (Caller)]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

I'm so proud and bless you for a job well done. You should feel proud.

And I'm proud of you, too. Okay, I'm taking a break. And while we do, I'm gonna ask you to close your eyes and concentrate on some dream you've always had of something to do. But you were wrapped up in family and everything, and now maybe you can play with that dream.

I'll be right back. Dr. Laura's deep dive Deep Dive podcast Deeper.

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[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Hey, everyone, it's me, Andy Cohen. Buckle up because I have a podcast called Daddy Diaries where I take my listeners on an as it happened recount of life as a daddy to two kids, dozens of housewives, and the occasional fella. Listen to the Daddy Diaries to hear about my high highs and low lows of parenting, housewives, drama, and so much more. Daddy Diaries available wherever you listen to podcasts.

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[Dr. Laura Schlessinger]

Podcast One of the toughest things about being a parent is that you're raising the ones you feel you can't live without to be able to live without you.

But as I like to say, a.

Good mother works herself out of a job. If she doesn't, her kids are snowflakes. So you've done it right. If you make yourself relatively useless, then it becomes time for you to get to be self focused. That's a good thing. What is it that you'd like to experience in your next chapter? Give me a call to talk about it. I'm here at 1-800-DURO or go to drlaura.com and make an appointment to speak with me. Now go do the right thing. If you like this podcast, be sure to rate it on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen to my podcast.

Of course I'd love if you gave.

Me five stars and be to sure sure to share this podcast with a friend on Facebook or your preferred social media platform.

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