Producer Ryan Gladieux on engineering hits, working with the greats and loving the journey

Summary

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Dream Life Club – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Producer Ryan Gladieux on Engineering Hits, Working with the Greats and Loving the Journey

Podcast: Dream Life Club
Host: Sumi Krishnan
Guest: Ryan Gladieux (Music Producer & Engineer)
Date: May 29, 2026

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Episode Overview

This lively episode features music producer and recording engineer Ryan Gladieux in conversation with host Sumi Krishnan. Together, they unpack Ryan’s unconventional path into the Los Angeles music industry, his experiences working in major label studios with icons like Pitbull, Kesha, Flo Rida, Ty Dolla $ign, Rihanna, and more, and what “making it” really means for creatives today. The discussion is candid, often humorous, and packed with advice for artists and music professionals about loving the process amid industry upheaval.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Career, Industry Myths, and Breaking In

[04:27–07:23]

• Ryan discusses leaving St. Louis for LA in his mid-20s with a bandmate, facing countless dead ends and “false roads” in the music business before finally landing an internship at Atlantic via a retweet on Twitter.
• Quote:
  • “I was starting to be convinced that the music industry didn’t even exist until... my ‘in’ I guess you could call it, was Twitter.” (B, 06:16)

2. Life as a Studio Intern

[07:23–09:23]

• The realities of his unpaid internship at the iconic Atlantic studio, once home to Death Row Records.
• Working odd jobs to make ends meet, including picking up trash at a car dealership, before getting hired as an engineer.
• Turning down a steady job for the uncertain but passionate pursuit of music.

3. The Realities of Studio Life

[10:20–13:21]

• The late-night world of music production, the demanding hours as an engineer, and the necessity for discipline.
• The importance of artists caring for their health, especially vocalists, as illustrated by Sumi’s story of developing a nodule.

4. The Festival & Social Media Reality Check

[17:06–19:10]

• Sumi’s candid revelation about attending Coachella-adjacent events rather than the festival itself and the influence-centric nature of social media in music culture.
• Quote:
  • “You can be on stage with Diplo and not even be at Coachella.” (B, 19:08)

5. Behind-the-Scenes with Hitmakers

a. Ty Dolla $ign’s Studio Approach

[20:22–25:05]

• Ty’s journey from songwriter to artist and his meticulously musical approach in the studio.
• Ty would have engineers set up the auto-tune scale by singing/selecting the exact notes he wanted—“focus group” songwriting with the room.
• Quote:
  • “He’d just hit a note and he’d sing a note and he’d go, alright, take out F sharp... And he would just build the scale out exactly how he knew he was going to be doing the harmonies, the whole melody.” (B, 22:18)

b. The Major Label Assembly Line

[31:26–32:51]

• How beats and song ideas are curated by label teams, and the often rigid, business-like approach to recording major label artists, e.g., Flo Rida.
• Despite the formula, the process requires intense adaptability and fast workflow from engineers.

c. Boot Camp with Flo Rida

[32:51–39:01]

• Ryan’s “trial by fire” transitioning from intern to engineer during a Flo Rida session – getting thrown into the deep end, failing, and learning from the experience.
• The intense pressure and high expectations:
  • “Recording flo was boot camp for engineering. He was fast as hell and knew exactly what he wanted.” (B, 32:51)
  • “You’d spend the whole session convinced you were just massively screwing up.” (B, 38:13)
• This boot camp mentality pushed engineers to grow quickly.

d. Celebrity Cameos and Studio Antics

[28:00–29:56]

• Colorful anecdotes of artists receiving tattoos or haircuts mid-session, studio visits from Floyd Mayweather, and the controlled chaos behind hits.
• Quote:
  • “It wasn’t uncommon... Flo would get haircuts in the studio all the time. He had Floyd Mayweather come through once... there were like 18 sprinter vans in the parking garage that night!” (B, 29:10)

6. Working with the Greats

a. Rihanna and Esther Dean

[48:45–54:31]

• Ryan’s only in-person session with Rihanna (with songwriter Esther Dean), emphasizing her presence, warmth, and star power.
• Industry wisdom about vocal producers (shout out to vocal producer Kook) and curating the right mindset and environment for high-profile artists.

b. T-Pain and Charlie Puth (with a Bit on Songwriter Credits)

[55:15–59:57]

• Working with both T-Pain and Charlie Puth, memorable for their “music nerd” harmony discussions and collaborative creativity.
• The little-known fact that songwriter and background vocal credits are sometimes how engineers like Ryan end up on major songs (e.g., Kesha & Pitbull’s “Timber”).

7. The New DIY/Algorithm-Driven Music Industry

[41:14–44:43]

• The old “rules” of the industry are fading; anyone can get noticed, the entry barriers are lower, but success is ever more tied to algorithms and social media.
• Lively discussion about the shift from music exec gatekeepers to tech and algorithm-driven control – with a dose of skepticism and humor.
• Quotes:
  • “We’re the dog chasing the car. That was always like, you know, democratization... It shouldn’t just be eight old white dudes in a boardroom deciding everything. It should be the fans.” (B, 42:30)
  • “Is it the fans or is it the freaking algorithm?” (A, 42:43)

8. Creative Life, The Journey, and Advice for Emerging Creatives

[60:58–62:52]

• Ryan’s core advice: Love the process, not just the destination. Define your own “making it,” but don’t tie your happiness solely to achievement.
• Quote:
  • “Make sure you love the journey. Don’t... all that gets you through. Cause being a creative, making it as a creative is brutal.” (B, 60:58)
• Sumi adds, referencing a friend’s wisdom:
  • “Success is how well you solve your problems.” (A, 62:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On industry struggle vs. passion:
  • “Making it as an accountant is less likely to break you as a human than making or breaking it in something like music or a creative endeavor.” (B, 61:38)
• On evolving definitions of success:
  • “You should have a definition of [making it], otherwise you’re chasing a dragon you’re never going to catch.” (B, 61:12)
• On the wild west of music:
  • “My first night as an intern, I shut the place down. I was the last one in the building. I didn’t sign a thing. It was the Wild West, man.” (B, 40:25)

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Highlight Timestamps

• Getting into the industry via Twitter: [06:16]
• First day as an Atlantic intern: [08:15]
• Flo Rida “boot camp” session: [32:51–39:01]
• Social media and the Coachella “adjacent” truth: [17:06–19:10]
• Ty Dolla $ign’s scale-building habits: [22:06–24:33]
• Rihanna session story: [48:45–54:31]
• T-Pain and Charlie Puth session: [55:15–59:57]
• Algorithm and control in the modern industry: [42:43–44:43]
• Ryan’s advice on loving the journey: [60:58–62:52]

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Tone and Style

The conversation is irreverent, personal, often hilarious, and peppered with industry jargon and “insider” stories. Sumi and Ryan’s rapport is high-energy, with plenty of self-deprecating humor, side tangents, and honest reflections on the madness and magic of life in the music trenches.

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In Closing

This wide-ranging episode is a must-listen for anyone pursuing a creative path or curious about the realities behind the scenes in the modern music industry. Ryan Gladieux’s tales of trial-by-fire, creative breakthroughs, and laugh-out-loud mishaps offer hard-won wisdom: above all, love the process, define your own success, and don’t buy into anyone else’s myth—algorithm or otherwise.

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Transcript

[A]

Ryan, welcome to the Dream Life Club podcast. We are so happy to have you here.

[B]

Thank you so much for having me. It is wonderful to be here. This feels so professional.

[A]

It's very professional.

[B]

Do the Dream Life listeners know anything about our podcast history?

[A]

No. So we might have to fill them in.

[B]

I'll let you decide how to what degree we fill them in.

[A]

Okay, well, first of all, how do you pronounce your last name?

[B]

Oh, God, that's gonna take longer. No, it's just really. It's really fast to explain.

[A]

Okay, go.

[B]

So I pronounce it Glad you.

[A]

Glad you.

[B]

But Glad you.

[A]

Soft, like you're glad.

[B]

Glad. Glad you're. Yeah.

[A]

Glad you came.

[B]

Glad you.

[A]

I'm glad you came.

[B]

I've never. No one's ever done that one before.

[A]

Sorry. That's like me with Sue Me. It's such a. I can't imagine.

[B]

Exactly. Exactly.

[A]

Good thing you're not a lawyer. And then they think they're really funny.

[B]

But honestly, I never thought to say that to you.

[A]

You've never said it to me, and I've never said glad you.

[B]

No. All right. Cheers to us. Don't. Let's not actually cheers, because we will spill these. We will. Oh, God, Really? Oh, my cup. Just.

[A]

This is not supposed to be a random ketchup episode.

[B]

Sorry, you're right, you're right.

[A]

We want to know all about your amazing story.

[B]

Let me. Okay, so if we're talking about me, the last name thing, there is actually a tiny bit of a studio ish tie in story to them. I got told by a French producer. I pronounced my last name.

[A]

Why does he have to be French?

[B]

Because of my last name. It's relevant to the conversation only because. Only for two reasons. One, I'm wildly racist. And two, he's French, but I'm only racist to French people. Anyway, the story goes. So I was working at Atlantic, and he was a/APG. We can get more into that later.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

How deep you want to dive? He was a producer signed to the publishing company, APG at the studio. And he was French. Very French. He was. He.

[A]

He.

[B]

I think he. He still lived in Paris at the time. Or maybe by that time he had moved here. But anyway. And we were chopping it up at the coffee machine. I think I was still an intern then. And he said he somehow, I don't know if it came across that he'd heard my last name was French. He goes, prepare everyone for my terrible French accent. He goes, right, how do you pronounce your last Name. I go, glad you. You're pronouncing it wrong. I was like, what? He goes, it's okay. What is it? He says, it's Glad you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I go, I'm not. First of all, I'm like, I talk

[A]

like this with that accent.

[B]

Not talk exactly talk like this and then switch to. But my name's Gladia. So it's like I gotta. I'm just gonna say it like I like this. And his response to that was like, that's fine, but you're pronouncing it wrong.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

Great guy. I love Sofly, by the way. That's. And I. He's a great dude.

[A]

His name is Sofly.

[B]

His name, that's his producer name.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He goes by Sofly and he's an awesome dude.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So anyway, there's, there's the studio tie in story to my last name.

[A]

Oh my gosh.

[B]

So the official pronunciation according to the French producer is Gladia.

[A]

Okay. Gladia.

[B]

I'm not going to pronounce it that way though.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Sorry, you.

[A]

It's funny because like my last name is Krishnan and it's pronounced Krishnan. But. But everyone thinks that that's maybe the Americanized version.

[B]

So they're like, as you were saying that I was thinking, I'll bet that's the Americanized version the story is going to become. But it's not.

[A]

No, it's.

[B]

What a twist.

[A]

It's Krishnan. But then everyone's like, krish, Krishnan, Krishnan.

[B]

Right. And they do, they do the thing

[A]

and do like a soft a. Like. No, it's like you didn't just like,

[B]

it's like they're looking for an excuse to do a fun voice.

[A]

Yes. Oh my God. So funny.

[B]

To be fair, that's also because like I have some like there's this writer I work with who she loves complaining about her friends. She's half white, half Mexican heritage and she loves complaining about her friends who are like more the way she describes it, we're the more Mexican side of them. And one of the ways they do that. Or she likes poking fun at us when they like street names in LA and they'll speak in a very Americanized accent, but when they get to a street name, they roll every R. It's, you know, the Enyas are there.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it apparently annoys the hell out of her. I think it's just a reason. It's a fun. You get to do a fun voice.

[A]

Absolutely. Well, I am so excited to share you with our Listeners today because you have so many interesting stories from your career in the music industry. Kind of up close and personal to all of, like the artists that we know of. Not all, but some.

[B]

Some of them, yeah.

[A]

Some with stories that you don't hear every day. Right. So I tell us a little bit about, first of all, like your background, like when you started in the industry and kind of like your career trajectory. And then I want to like dive into some of the most interesting experiences.

[B]

Deal? Deal. So I moved out to LA. I'm from St. Louis, Missouri. I grew up there. And then when I was 20, mid 20s, I moved out to LA with a friend of mine who we were in a band together. Music business partner. We had a studio, actually we owned a hip hop studio. In saying, we'll stop talking with your hands.

[A]

No talk with. Keep talking with your hands.

[B]

Keep talking with hands. Wave them in front of the camera like this. And we moved out to LA to, you know, make it music. Yeah, we had some friends out here. The whole idea was to like plug into this like kind of network of friends that we'd had and try and make it. And it was a. It was a fun journey of like trying different things in LA and learning just how the. The weird ways to try to break into the industry. All of which, by the way, is becoming insanely irrelevant now. My entire experience, I moved out in 008 or 09, I think. 09, like summer of 09, but not

[A]

really because you were still inside Atlantic when, like recently when a lot of, you know, current day people are popping off.

[B]

So. Yeah, well, I guess in terms of how I got into the industry, my break, so. Well, okay, so the specific way I kind of got in, coming out to la, I learned that, wow, there's a lot of false roads into whatever the industry, music. People who say they know things and they don't, people who say they have a connection and it meant nothing. It's people who promise things and they completely fall through. I'm sure you've never run into anyone like that ever.

[A]

What, every day?

[B]

Yeah, I did too. And I still. And I still do, but I was starting to be convinced that the music industry didn't even exist until. And this is gonna date me until I. My in, I guess you could call it was Twitter.

[A]

Okay, Your in was Twitter.

[B]

Kind of. Kind of. Well, that was the mode of communication. So we. My, My dude, I was in a. My friend who I was in a band with and we were just playing music together. His. His girlfriend got introduced to like A manager. And we started talking to him, and he was kind of working with us. But the way Twitter comes in is we followed each other on Twitter. He retweeted the head engineer of Atlantic asking about internships. Oh, and I saw it, okay. Sent my resume in. He tweeted me back.

[A]

Okay, that's what you did?

[B]

You tweeted. He tweeted me back the address. And he was like, show up with this. I show up to the. Atlantic's not there anymore, but it was this building in Hollywood.

[A]

What do you mean Atlantic's not there anymore? Explain to people what you mean by that.

[B]

So it was this building in Hollywood that at the time was owned by Babyface's wife, I believe. I don't think Babyface still owned it. And it was the same building that Death Row Records was in in the 90s.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

Iconic building. If you ever saw Straight Outta Compton, the scene where they're strangling. Easy, that it's in a studio. That studio. They didn't film in the building in Atlantic, but the place where that actually did happen was that building.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

Pretty cool background there. Anyway, so I went there to the third floor, that same floor that happened for an interview. And by the way, the reason Atlantic's not there anymore is Atlantic, in the end of 2025, killed their entire recording program. Okay, so that's why it's not there anymore. It's. It's. I think the studio is, but someone else is using it. Anyway, so I show up there the way I like because of the tweet, in, like, a suit and tie. And, like, already, like, I got my resume and stuff.

[A]

It was like 2009.

[B]

This was probably. Yeah, 10. Nine out of 10. This is probably my nine or 10. It took me a second to. But anyway, I show up there and, like, it's a bunch of dudes who are, like, just got. Came up from the parking lot, high

[A]

as hell, definitely not wearing a suit.

[B]

Not wearing suit and ties at all. And, like, the intern, like, didn't even hear me get off the elevator.

[A]

Our producer right now. Johnny, why didn't you come in here with a suit and tie? You don't think I'm, like, with that?

[B]

Anyway, it's okay. I forget.

[A]

He already got the job, so. Okay.

[B]

Oh, yeah. But he might have shown up on his first day with a suit and tie with him.

[A]

Did you? No.

[B]

And he still got the job. He must be good. I had to show up in a suit and tie.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So anyway, I. So I quickly. The intern who like, didn't even hear me get off the elevator. Like, looked up from his phone and was like, you know, like, oh. And give you the, like, oh, my God, this guy's gonna suit and tie look. I was like, quickly, like, he was like, oh, let me go get JP Was the engineer's name. He's let me go get JP and the second he left, I, like, took the tie off and try to, like, loosen the downplay. Just rolled the sleeves up. And yeah, I. Thankfully, he. He brought me on as an intern, and I struggled there terribly for a year. No, two years as an unpaid intern.

[A]

Oh, wow. How'd you make ends meet?

[B]

I worked other jobs. I worked a bunch of terrible, awful jobs. The last one I had before I got hired as an engineer was picking up trash at a car dealership.

[A]

Wow. Okay. You've done everything. Okay.

[B]

I started picking up trash. I eventually got promoted to. I was running the part. I was running shipping and receiving for the parts department.

[A]

Oh, hey.

[B]

Before I left, it was pretty cool, actually. There was a point in my life where I had to decide. The head of the parts department literally came to me. This was about a month or two before I actually got offered the engineer job. He was like, ryan, you're pretty good at this. You want to come on full time here? We got good benefits. You make something work here. I'm just saying. And I literally went home. I was like, I don't know. It's kind of cool. You get benefits, right?

[A]

Get a salary.

[B]

Get a salary. Yeah. I'm poor as hell. Right, Right. I did not take it. And thankfully, within, like, a little, not too long after that, I ended up getting ever. However, my income went way down when I got hired as an engineer.

[A]

Interesting. And you were working, like, real long hours, I'm sure.

[B]

Oh, engineer hours. So, okay, so then I'm like, oh, I'm an engineer now. But, yeah, your hours are. Before I was an engineer, you would get up at like, 7am to go work at wherever.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Wherever it was. And then you'd get off at, like.

[A]

Who has, like, morning sessions? Why were you in there?

[B]

No, no, no. So I'd go work the other jobs as an intern. I'd go work the other jobs. Come and do. I'd do my internship, would start at like, six.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then I'd be there till, like, in the morning and then do it all again.

[A]

Okay. Because you were in the hip hop rap.

[B]

We did a lot of pop. We did a lot of pop and hip hop there and. And, yeah, hip hop Sessions. I mean, listen, the music industry. I shouldn't say the music industry. The recording world tends to run late mainly because of artists regardless of what genre in. Because they, they perform at night. So they're on tour starting their work at 7, 8, 9pm they're not gonna, you know, they're not in bed by 11.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they get off tour and they come to studios and they're kind of, you know, even if they're not starting their sessions at seven, they. So things tend to run late. So trash. Transitioning into that from like a real world job was. Honestly for me, I loved it because like that was I more of a fun schedule. I was a night person. I still am. I always was. So the music, the recording world kind of was like, yeah, I can. I feel creative. I feel energized after the sun goes down.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Are you that way?

[A]

I am, actually, I am. But I feel like I'm constantly fighting that because I feel like the most productive artists are actually morning people. Like the people who really. I don't know because like they.

[B]

Productive people do tend to be morning.

[A]

Right. Productive seems general.

[B]

I'm jealous of really.

[A]

Why? But because you have the same amount of hours but like moving them up. Right. I think it's maybe the discipline that it takes. Like I do think that if you.

[B]

I'm giving into laziness when I stay up.

[A]

I think so a little bit. Right. Like the late night person, you have more like wiggle room on your time. Cuz you're like. It kind of all gets wavy late at night. Like you're like, yeah, there's no rush. I don't know, maybe.

[B]

So yeah, that I enjoy that. But yeah, that people more disciplined. May I kind of enjoy the gym?

[A]

No, I really enjoy it too though. It's a struggle. It's a struggle.

[B]

But you, it's worth it.

[A]

I. I think.

[B]

Good for you. So I'm still. I'm sitting here very jealous of you. Good for you. Good for you. No, no, tell me more that I can be jealous.

[A]

Oh my God. We won't be jealous of this.

[B]

Okay, go. Great.

[A]

All right. So I feel like part of this is like as an artist you have to take such fucking good care of your body because it's your instrument.

[B]

Yeah. And so just let's not discount living in la.

[A]

Well, live it. Yeah, living in LA and the, and that like aesthetics of it all. But. But literally like, you know, like this past month I went to Coachella and then I went to Summit at Sea and then I was in studio last week recording some new music. And then on Sunday, I woke up. And if my voice sounds kind of weird right now, it's because it is it.

[B]

I think you sound great.

[A]

As of Sunday, it started. It hurts when I swallow. And I'm not sick. Like, I'm not.

[B]

I was going to say I have

[A]

no symptoms of being sick. It doesn't feel like a sore throat. It's.

[B]

No, you've been using your voice a lot.

[A]

It's this other weird kind of like, what the hell? Like, it hurts. Hurts when I swallow a lot. Like, really bad. And so I went to the ant.

[B]

I was just gonna.

[A]

And she's like, oh, yeah, you have a nodule, but thank God it's not on your vocal cords. It's on the cartilage above your cords. But, like, that's why that every time you swallow, it's, like, rubbing against your. Whatever, larynx everywhere. And it makes sense that it hurts. And she's like, it's just gonna take some time. And she also prescribed some, like, acid reflux meds. She was like, it may have been. Some of that may have been overuse. Let's just give it some time. And I'm like, no. Like, this fucking sucks. It hurts. Can't really, like, operate normally. Like, I feel really, like, tired because I think it's psychosomatic. It's like. It's like, I don't have any other symptoms of being sick, of course. But you feel when something's wrong with your body, it, like, affects your whole energy, I think, you know?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And it hurts, like, every time you swallow, and then you realize how much you swallow.

[B]

I'd be curious. I would love not eating. I wish we could run an experiment where there's a version of you that never gets told you have that nodule. And then we could watch you side by side with the version of you that does know. Because I wonder how much knowing about it and it being on your mind, knowing.

[A]

It's like, the reason I went in is because it was so bothersome.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Even before.

[B]

But. So it's gonna be affecting you the whole time. But, like, how much of a difference would there be?

[A]

I know this.

[B]

The psycho.

[A]

Well, at least I'm glad that I know what it is. So I don't.

[B]

Absolutely. No, no, absolutely. So the. The. Is the prognosis.

[A]

You gotta, like, the prognosis is, I'm gonna be fine. Don't sing for a week.

[B]

But just a week. Okay.

[A]

Just a week.

[B]

But now you don't Even have to go on vocal rest.

[A]

Right. I was like, do I have to go on vocal rest? She's like, you don't want to strain your voice. Cuz I knew I had these like two podcast recording today. But yeah, she's like, but just go. Based more on feel like good. She seemed super laid back about it. I was like, do I have to

[B]

come in to like reading her vibe?

[A]

Do I have to like come in again in two weeks to make sure everything. I wouldn't worry about it. She's like, just, okay. That's weird. Like, she was really taking it nonchalantly. Maybe she was trying to play into the.

[B]

She's either. She's either fantastic or terrible.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. Anyways, I digress. So I just. That whole, that whole experience just made me like think about how. Because when I was at Coachella and was at Summit at Sea, it was like I wasn't. I'm not a partier. Like, I am not a partier to begin with, you know, but not according

[B]

to the week you just described.

[A]

But like, but like, there is an element of not even being able to keep up with like average partying when you're an artist.

[B]

What a sentence. Being able to keep up with average partying. You know what's funny is my. My 42 year old friend, but also

[A]

maybe because I'm not.

[B]

Was just saying that to me. Well, well, also. No, it speaks to your. Your awesome life. Like, what an experience that you. That you. That's so cool. That part of your job is like having to find the energy to do fun stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right? Isn't that awesome?

[A]

I like that attitude.

[B]

It doesn't mean you. It doesn't mean it's not work. Finding that energy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It doesn't mean it's not sucking you dry. And it doesn't mean if you go into the situations without your cup full enough, you're gonna suffer some. Some effects from it. Like, that's kind of a cool. Especially afterwards. It's like, that's cool though.

[A]

That's true. That'll be fun to like, look back at Ex.

[B]

Like, if I. If I had to get up for something.

[A]

Right. Had to get up to party to go to Coachella. Oh my God.

[B]

Were you. Did you have fun at Coachella?

[A]

Yeah, it was super fun.

[B]

Would you go again?

[A]

No. Like, here's the thing though. The truth is that.

[B]

No, I don't want to hear that.

[A]

You don't want to hear the truth.

[B]

All right, okay.

[A]

I'll tell you the truth. I didn't go to Coachella. Okay.

[B]

In case you tell me more, in

[A]

case you didn't know, there's a whole swath of mostly influencers who say they're going to Coachella, but they're not going to Coachella. They don't even step foot inside the festival because they don't have a ticket to the festival.

[B]

That's super expensive.

[A]

Surrounding parties and events and networking opportunities that happen around the festival. Most people are going to the festival too, but I didn't get a ticket. And I wasn't about to drop like $4,000 on a last minute ticket. But my friend was like, I think I'll be able to get you into like all of the networking events and parties. Just come with me. So that's what basically happened.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

Yeah. So we were booked and busy like all three days at various events, but none of them were the actual festival

[B]

this speaks to.

[A]

And I was on stage like two feet away from Diplo, like, had some pretty fucking, like, cool experiences.

[B]

Which was not at Coachella.

[A]

Which was not at Coachella. Which was at. That was at the Nylon party. So, like, that's one of, like, the most exclusive, whatever, Coachella adjacent events.

[B]

It's fascinating to me, obviously, the vapid nature of. I'm just gonna blame social media's obsession with this thing and to like, just be. And first of all, good on you for recognizing the way to essentially, like, use that in an extremely effective way. Yeah, that's awesome.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also.

[A]

Oh, just like the. Yeah. Mm. The social media aspect.

[B]

Exactly. You. You. You read. This is how. What's going on. I can use. That's perfect. That's what you have to do. But also, like, just shout out Coachella for getting so big. So big that you can be on stage with Diplo and not even be at Coachella.

[A]

So true. Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Oh, Ty dollar sign. Like, the. The next night, we were at the Neon Carnival. After party or not after party. The neon party, which was kind of like the after party. And it's this. It's like another mini Coachella. It's like this entire. It's like this outdoor carnival. Huge, super fun. Apparently everyone was there from like Rihanna to. I don't know, like, so many people.

[B]

Rihanna was at the fake Coachella.

[A]

It's called Neon Carnival.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is not fake Coach. So they don't advertise themselves as fake Coachella. And then they should not do that.

[A]

Ty$sign. Ty$sign was performing randomly and.

[B]

And hell yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And he looked at me from the Audience and like, performed one song directly to me, the whole song. My friend Heather will claim that he was performing at her, but I was like, I'm right. I think he's looking at me.

[B]

First of all, Ty has very pretty eyes. Were you locking with his very, very pretty eyes? Did you get to see those beautiful baby blues staring right back at you?

[A]

It was like, not that close, but I would say yes to that.

[B]

I could make Ty Ty from me to Tyler. Wait, did you work with him? Oh, yeah, I worked with Atlanta.

[A]

Okay, let's go back then. Let's go back to Atlantic. Okay, so. So you're. You're. Tell us about this. Take us to the moment. You're working with Ty Dollarstein. How's he.

[B]

Ty. So Ty was a writer. Ty wrote. Well, his first big hit as an artist was Paranoid. But before that's what, like, made him, like, kind of viable as an artist, which is great song. Great song. And. But before that, he was. He was signed to apg. He was signed to Mike Karen, who was the executive who kind of oversaw the whole thing. We write. He was signed to Mike as a writer. And Tyro, I think he wrote two different booty.

[A]

Okay, okay, okay.

[B]

He wrot.

[A]

So he kind of got his start more as a writer.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. A lot of people did. That was. It was and still is a very, very viable, like, sort of path. And Mike. Mike would have a saying. He would tell people he'd bring. He'd bring creatives in and they would consider themselves whatever they considered themselves. I'm a writer. I'm an artist. And he would sort of just look at their whole situation trying to figure out. And a thing he would say to a lot of them very frequently was like, yo, write songs and use whatever you get from that to fund your artist career. Being an artist is expensive. Being a writer is a lot cheaper. And you can make money doing that if you're a really good songwriter. That's. You used to anyway, right? You used to shout out the apocalypse currently happening.

[A]

Oh, AI.

[B]

But anyway. But that's. That's what you would traditionally say. So Ty started as a writer like a lot of people did, and he wrote. He had a bunch of really big songs. He was very popular as a writer. He would come in a lot. Ty was so fun to work with. The most fun things. Okay, so Ty, what he would do a lot with the other engineers and I always loved working with. He would go in the booth and he would tell you to put auto tune and chromatic. What that means is all notes in the scale are now available.

[A]

That's how it always should be, I think. But anyways, you purist. Okay.

[B]

You purist.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

So he would say, put it in chromato. And that wasn't the style for the kind of music Ty was writing.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

But he would go in the booth and then he would take out his phone and he'd have piano keys on it, and he'd have you play the beat, and then he'd just hit a note and he'd sing a note and he'd go, all right, take out F sharp. And he'd sing and he'd play a note and he'd go, take out A sharp. Take out G. And he would just build the scale out exactly how he knew he was gonna be doing the harmonies, the whole melody that he already had in his head. And then he would. Part of that was him being really adept musically. And part of this also, he didn't trust the engineer to get the tune right.

[A]

Right. Oh, my God.

[B]

That's fascinating because it's also a common, like, for writers, artists.

[A]

So annoying.

[B]

You go in a studio, if the engineer doesn't have the. The tune right. You're just rip off that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Meanwhile, the engineer's sitting over there swearing. Like, I swear to God, I put it in mixing. I don't know what's playing around.

[A]

Right. Half the time the engineer is probably right.

[B]

But yeah, yeah, you know, I don't. I'm gonna answer that depending on who's in the room with me. If it's a writer, I'm gonna say, like, the writers, obviously, as an engineer,

[A]

when I be like, yeah, bro, fair, fair, fair. So that's interesting. So he would build. So he basically would build it out, the whole, like, what notes needed to be in the.

[B]

He just knew. And then he would always. Because he. Ty was always.

[A]

No matter what scale it was in. I mean, no matter what key it

[B]

was in, he knew, like, he knew theory and he knew how it all worked, but he just. It was his way of, like, knowing. Because also, too, if you were really deep into harmonies, you would add accidentals, which are notes that are deliberately out of the scale. And if you knew you were going to be doing that, you just tell the engineer ahead of time. I'm. I know F sharp isn't in this key, but anyway, because I'm gonna sing it, and I don't want it to. When I try to sing it, I want it to sound right. So it's just his way of handing it off. The other fun thing Ty would do is the way he wrote songs. His lyrics is a lot of guys freestyle bar to bar. They'll just like hear the melody and run it back, run it back, run it back. And then they finally say a lyric. Keep that. And then the engineer would add one more bar into the loop after that so the guy could hear what he just did. And then an open space after it so he could freestyle that until he figured it out and build the whole song that way. Very common way to write. And Ty would do that. Except while doing that, he always. He'd be in the booth and he'd be looking at all his, like, boys and just every. Everyone in the room. And depending on what the vibe was. I mean, if he was writing like a romantic song, this is what he would do. But it was the kind of song where it was like, meant to be like a party. Fun song.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He would just like keep trying different lines until he got the right kind of reaction they got from anyone. He'd be like, all right, that was the one. Keep that. And then going after. So he was almost like pre. He was.

[A]

Yeah. He had his focus group, like, right there.

[B]

He was focus grouping.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

He could focus group it right there. So he kind of knew.

[A]

Ah, I love that. So who was in the studio with him?

[B]

It was his friends, security, other writers, sometimes other producers, sometimes A and rs. But a lot of times Ty would wait to write till super late at night after the A's would leave. And then obviously the engineer. Listen, A and R's got meetings at 10am the next day. Ty doesn't. So he can. They. They will try to save that.

[A]

I feel like most people. People don't like having ars in the room. Right.

[B]

Man, that's.

[A]

I mean, I could do a whole. I wouldn't want to have the ANRs in the room. It's too much like suit pressure.

[B]

I will say the only. I won't sound. I'm not going to say the only A pro to having them in the room is depending on your relationship with them and depending on the specific purpose of that session. If the purpose of the session is a thing they set up for, like a thing they need and they're trying to get like a placement for a movie or like, you were brought in as a writer for an artist and it's their relationship. Like, if it may be a positive to have the ANR in the room. If, like, you know, you need to make them happy in order for this song to get pitched okay, so, like, you may not have as much fun creatively if they weren't there, but wouldn't it suck if you went down this whole creative road? Then they hear it later over email and are like, bro, you missed that.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

Wouldn't it been nice if they'd have been in, like, what are y'?

[A]

All?

[B]

That's not at all what they call. So that's the argument where some. If you can put up with it, good for you. Because now, you know, maybe you can. That's. That's when it would work out, I guess.

[A]

Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you can deal with them. I love you anrs you don't.

[A]

I don't think maybe we have A and R's watching.

[B]

Yeah, everyone is watching.

[A]

Everyone's watching. That's true. We are. We are number 17 in society and culture. Hey, congrats.

[B]

Congrats. That's amazing.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

That's. Yeah, Ty would. Ty would do his punchline stuff. Yeah, Ty, he was. He was super fun to work with, and you always got lost in his eyes. Did you get. You didn't get lost in his eyes?

[A]

I don't. I did.

[B]

I should think of his eyes. Aren't they not as sparkly as they used to be?

[A]

It was a bit far.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, I was in the room. I was literally in the room with him. Through the booth, through the glass.

[A]

Okay. What. Why are his eyes so special?

[B]

He's got really pretty eyes. I don't know. Look up his eyes.

[A]

Okay, Ty, Dollar sign, you better be listening. You better, like, DM me after this.

[B]

He's gonna feel real uncomfortable with how many compliments I'm giving his eyes.

[A]

I know. Will he remember you?

[B]

If I met Ty right now, he'd probably be like, oh, yeah. And then if I said, like, APG or my. He might. He'd probably be like. He'd probably. You know what he'd do? Because he's a nice guy, he'd be like, oh, yeah, bro. And he'd do that. And then we would be. That's probably what it was.

[A]

Yeah. That's rad. So who else. So who else were you in the studio with when you were there?

[B]

Who? Oh, my God. I got to. I got to work with a lot of different people. I was so.

[A]

I.

[B]

The whole era at that studio, the run it kind of had. Was that like. Or a lot of what we did was that, like, early? It's funny. A lot of what we did is currently, it seems to be. Anyway, Based on the algorithm having a bit of a resurgence right now. And it's that early 2010s dance pop stuff. Because like the biggest credit I have on my engineering discography is the song Timber by Kesha and Pitbull. Yeah, I think last I checked is terms of sales.

[A]

That's.

[B]

Cause I think it's Diamond. But that is pretty. That song is a good sort of indicator about the kind of stuff that came out of that studio. It was that kind of stuff. We did a lot of Flo Rata stuff that all came out. Oh, you had some.

[A]

You had some stories about Flo.

[B]

I've worked with Flo a lot. Yeah, I got to work with him a lot. Flo was. Flo was great. I once got to be. I once was standing. Oh man. Flo was a lot of fun because he used to bring the craziest other people to sessions. He would have meetings during sessions. He was always super productive. He would have business meetings. He would get haircuts during sessions. He wasn't alone for that. Haircuts during sessions are very, very common. Really very common. Having the barber come through. You're in the. You're in the room. Oh no. That reminds me of the Ty Dolla story after I was working with him. Speaking of having people come in through the room, there's a song. I wish I could. It's escaping me right now. There's a song he has that he did at our studio. Vince was his engineer at that time. Shout Out. Vince Invincible. If he ever. If he hears this. Vince was engineering him. Because Vince is the one that told me the story. But. And you can hear it in a song. He's getting a tattoo.

[A]

Flow is or ty$tie ty wow.

[B]

T's getting a tattoo. Cuz he just. We wanted to get his tattoo. So he had the M. It was actually an SM7. I remember the setup that we had. And he was sitting at the SM7 he had in there. And this. He's getting the tattoo over here and Vince is over in the engineer. Just like. Okay, I guess like something. I can. Maybe I can edit this out later.

[A]

Oh my God. Wait, while he's recording.

[B]

Yeah, and it's in. If you listen to the song, you can hear it. You can hear like in the background. That's the thing.

[A]

Oh, shoot. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

If I can remember before you put this out, you can put it in show notes. Yeah, but so. And anyway, so it wasn't uncommon. Like you have to have two guys come through. Flo would get haircuts in the studio all the time. He had Floyd Mayweather come through once. That was that. And that was when Floyd was like. Like, he was still fighting and he was team money. TMT. There was like 18 sprinter vans in the parking garage of that building that night. There were like, dudes in the lobby. Yeah, There was like 30 people downstairs in the main hallway. In the hallway in the lobby of our Floyd's people.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[B]

Then there were like at least a dozen more. Then they were in the foyer of the studio and the little entryway, there were like three more dudes. And then in the studio itself, which, like, fire code is probably like 20, maybe 30. We had his team in there alone was at least that many. And then Flo did not roll with a tiny entourage.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

And I was there sitting in the

[A]

middle, plus, Ryan, you want me to run it back? They would like, go out to the club and come back, right?

[B]

Yeah, that was a common thing because in this. And Flo like, listen, he was a professional. He was making music for the club. So he comes to the studio to go do research. He comes to the studio and he hears the beats and songs that the label is thinking about or that the writers have been writing and working. You know, I like this. I don't like this yada. And then they work on it to record some stuff. And about like 10, 11 or so. None of this is discussed with you though, before? And it's never, ever said out loud, ever to the engineers, ever to anyone. But you learn it after years of it just happening around you. But then all of a sudden you

[A]

look up, like, were there other musicians, like instrumentalists in the room too?

[B]

Sometimes. Sometimes producers would come through, like, depending if you were a real big producer. He like, it was sort of a special session. I'm working with this producer tonight. But nights. And maybe they would go to the club together. But like the sort of regular Flo's kind of like work mode, like, the producer sessions were like special things because it would be something that was pre set up before. But Flo was just like, I gotta work, because, you know, whatever.

[A]

So, like, what would you. What kind of beat would you lay down for him to write over?

[B]

They would. So the label would get together, whoever he was, his team would get together. Folders. Okay, beat package. This works. This is for every major label artist your team at the label is having. There's camps, there's like they're having meetings about.

[A]

So they already have stuff.

[B]

Exactly. There is a curated list of we like these beats. And then some of them may have even written over. We like these songs written to these. These are the concepts we're thinking of. And then you play it for him. You get his feedback and the whole. You guys kind of figure out as a team. That's how major label artists kind of happen.

[A]

Yeah, but wait a minute. But when he's in the booth, like freestyling, what's that then? Cause nothing's written.

[B]

Flo actually doesn't do that. Oh, Flo doesn't bar to bar freestyle. At least he didn't back then. And if he does not, I haven't worked with him in years, but I don't know if he does that now. But he didn't back then. Flo actually loved sitting at the booth. When he would write his verses, he would sit at the. At the console and it was yellow pad of paper. And I would get up. Thank God I didn't have to, because at that point you're just playing dj. He would just reach over and press Space bar twice because space bar wants to stop. Press bar once again to play it. And it would loop back to the beginning. So he would be. He would be writing with his pencil. He used a pencil. He'd be writing and he. With his huge sunglasses and his tight T shirt and his chains and he's in the studio and I'd be sitting over there on my phone.

[A]

Did any of those ideas get recorded?

[B]

Yeah. And then whenever he was done.

[A]

But see, he would remember him in

[B]

his head, you know, well, he's stuff. Yes.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

And like, sometimes he would go in first and a lot of writers do this. Or artists, they'll go in and do a melody pass. And then what they're listening back to is the beat with their melody over it and they're writing that. Sometimes. Other. Other times. Not other times, he just knows the flow. He wants to start it there with flow. But he would just do that with. He would. Then he would have. Know his lyrics and he would go and he would just record him. Recording Flow was great. It was. Recording flow was boot camp for engineering. Engineering. It was boot camp. He was fast as hell and he knew exactly what he wanted. And flow was my test, by the way, to become an engineer. Now with the test I did, I had to pass Flo Rata. Oh.

[A]

From internship to engineer, that was it.

[B]

His current engineer, jp, JP was my kind of mentor. The guy who taught me engineering. JP was his engineer. JP was the guy who did like he did Good feeling. He did wild ones he did whistle, if you remember those. For those really, really big ones. I came along shortly after that for the ones that weren't as big. But anyway, so my. I was. It was like three in the morning. It was like one in the morning. And I'm chilling at the counter in the. In the break room or like the. Where we get coffee machine and everything. And JP just pokes his head around the corner, like cuz. Around the corner, Studio A. And he's just like, hey, Ryan, could you go an A real quick? And I assumed food order because I'm the intern.

[A]

You're an A. Okay, okay.

[B]

So I got my. I grabbed the pad of paper and I get the pencil and I'm gonna go in the room and I'm. Because I'm an intern. And I walk in and it's dark as hell and there's a shitload of dudes all around the room. And it's Flo, so they're all big guys too. Like, Flo's a big guy and Flo rolls the dudes who like, are in the gym with him.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it's dark as hell and loud as hell because the beat's playing. And Flo is in the booth with one single light on the top of his head, literally walking back and forth, staring past everyone, right at me, just looking like a shark going back and forth in his tank. His head's even down. I just want. And I just immediately get the sense, like, I don't think I'm in here for a food order. And JP's sitting at the chair, which is in the center of the room. And I walk up to him and I kind of. It's loud as hell, just some four on the floors, pop dance, beach blasting. And he like, notices me. He's eating. So casual. JP's eating. He's so casual. He's so good. JP is so good. I can do a whole pocket podcast on how good JP is. He's okay. He just gets up. He's in. He's like, all right. He like, gets up. He just motions at the seat. This is. I have been thinking about this moment non stop for like, at this point, minimum months.

[A]

But had you ever engineered anything before? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Because the whole thing is you on your own. On your own because you're an intern. You're always trying. No, they would never trust an intern to do that. But it's now. You always hear about guys like, that's the moment. I guess this was me figuring out this is it. And he just motions at the chair. And I'm like, realizing this is it. And so I just, like, set the pad down and, like, get in the chair, and I. I punch him. I'm like, you know, he's in the boots. Are we going? All right, let's go. That was it. And then we're off. I'm like, okay, I'm overt. I press start there, and that's three is to record. Okay, yeah, we're. And you're coming in after the. Right here. And JP's like, just go, bro. Just go. Just go. You better. Just like, yeah, okay. I last about five minutes, maybe ten, before JP has to me. And so he's like, all right, bro. Thanks. It's 10 minutes of like, nah, bro, punch me in. No, no, not right there. No. Were you even. No, bro, stop. No, no, not like that. All right, run it back. Nah, bro, that ain't right, bro. No, it was 10 minutes.

[A]

What are you doing that he's saying no to?

[B]

I'm punching him in the wrong spots. I'm not saving the take he wanted. I'm not stopping when he wanted me to stop. I'm taking forever to make an edit and drop down what he wanted to keep. He said this, but I thought he meant that. So I did another thing, and he doesn't realize that that's what I thought he said. So now this whole miscommunication. Right? That's what's happening.

[A]

Okay, okay, okay.

[B]

And about 10 minutes in, JP's like, all right, thanks, man. Go wait. Go wait. Go wait outside. And I just skulk out of there. My shoulders are just, like, head down like the Michael Sarah meme from for Arrested Development. And I go back to the. To the. The counter in the coffee break room, and I'm just sitting there. I'm just leaning over, and just like. It's just like, okay, thank God I got that job at the car dealership. I can keep doing that. Obviously, this is. Maybe internships. It's universal. Maybe they might be having some. Maybe they have some. That's what's going through my head for, like, an hour.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

At least. Jp, I don't know. I. JP recounted, and I recounted this story later at the bar. He doesn't fully remember all of it, but then JP comes out about an hour later, and I'm just like. He comes, and he leans up next, again, next to me, and he's just so. Again, he's just so casually pops down next to me. He goes like, hey, man, great job. You really hung in There for a while. I don't think I've ever had anyone go that long, so I'm gonna hit you. We'll see when we get you in here. All right.

[A]

Great job. Whoa. See, I knew where this story was going because you eventually were head engineer at Atlantic, so I knew you didn't get fired that day.

[B]

I took over for JP eventually.

[A]

That was a shocker in that moment,

[B]

and it also prepared me. It was. It was a microcosm of so working. When I. Eventually. I didn't go on to work with Flo for years after that, I started. I was. I had to work with other people before ever. Eventually worked, worked with him.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because that was just when I got hired as an engineer. I didn't go to work with him again for a while.

[A]

So it was just that working with him was so hard, so challenging for every engineer that even though you felt like you were messing up the whole time, it was still better than the

[B]

thing with him was. So the first time I did work with. Not the first time, and the first time I worked with him and many times after that until, like, I finally got comfortable with him and we developed a rapport, was you would spend the whole session convinced you were just massively screwing up. And then at the end of the session, and this happened. This did happen in my very first session with him because it was. They were trying to find someone who could hang with him, and I was just the next guy up. I was the next meat in the grinder going down the line.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I thought I had just gone through the. Like, I was getting ready to get spit out because I just gotten yelled at. And this was. Again, this was years after that trial that I just talked about years after that. I've been an engineer for years. By this point, I think I'd already had the Timber credit. By this point.

[A]

Okay, I definitely did.

[B]

This is way after Timber, but I still wasn't a very good engineer then. But Flo, like, just ripped me apart the whole session. I was not fast enough. I did not understand what he needed.

[A]

So do you think you learned a lot by working with Flow? He was boot camp, okay?

[B]

The engineer I was starting to work with Flow, and the engineer I was when him and I finally started working together years after that. Drastic. 100% different since then because I was head engineer, part of my job was assigning engineers to different roles. And, like, kind of that's, you know, scheduling and stuff. So when I stopped working with Flow, I had to, like, pick who was going to Take over. And that was a whole thing because it was like, you're about to become way better, but you have to already be pretty good going in.

[A]

Right?

[B]

So here's.

[A]

And you have to be ready to, like, take the beating and, like, learn from it. Okay.

[B]

It wasn't just flow. That was. It was sort of also indicative of that kind of recording in general. You were gonna get your. You're gonna get your ass kicked. But, you know, you'll get better, hopefully. Yeah, you'll get better. No, yeah. It was just trial by fire. That's how we did it.

[A]

Right, right. That's so fascinating to, like, know that, like, even at the major. Major label recording, that there's just some intern, like, getting ready to, like, record like, the most, you know, one of the biggest artists.

[B]

My first night as an intern, I shut the place down. I was the last one in the building.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I didn't. My name was not on a single piece of paperwork. I didn't sign a thing. It was literally just like, oh, he's an intern now. And I was the last guy in the building that night.

[A]

Wait, you literally. You locked up the guy?

[B]

I was being.

[A]

Trust.

[B]

I was being trained by the head intern. His name was Drew. I haven't seen that guy in forever.

[A]

What happened to him, I wonder?

[B]

No idea. I'd be so curious. He's a good dude. He was a good dude, but he, like.

[A]

He was like, the head intern. There was a head.

[B]

There was a head intern. That was Drew. He got hired to be engineer shortly after I got. I came. I think it was hired to be his, like, the replacement intern. He trained me, and he was. We were the last two in the building. And he was like, all right, bro. Remember, just, there, there, there. Lock up when you leave. I'm out in the morning. And I was like, well, I'm about to leave Atlantic Records right now. Button on the elevator. Yeah, that was. It was the Wild west, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is the music industry. That was years ago. And I've learned since then the music industry is very much still the wild.

[A]

Right. I guess it is. Like. And it does feel to me, even now, that there are no rules, There is no path. Like, you just kind of have to, like, everyone's kind of making as they go along, 100%. Especially now.

[B]

Even more so now. There were way more rules then than now.

[A]

Yeah. Well, in terms of what?

[B]

How things work, how the machine is supposed to function. The tried and true methods for breaking an artist. Breaking an artist. What is a hit? How to make A hit. If you do this and this and this and follow this path. There was never ever a sure thing. There was never at any point in the music industry a sure thing thing. But ever. But the. It's way more fuzzy now. Yeah, it's so much more like yo. Because like even like it was. I was in a major label studio and it felt like the wild west. Now, you don't need to be a major label to play the same game major labels play.

[A]

In fact, you can literally be a no name. You can produce your own shows. Like, you don't need to be signed to an agent. You know, like, you can rent out venues, produce your own shows, make your

[B]

own fan base and compete at the exact same level as any industry standard.

[A]

Yeah, it's wild.

[B]

It's wild, dude.

[A]

It's crazy. Which is cool. Which is like exciting. Like from an artist's perspective, we're the

[B]

dog chasing the car. That was always like, you know, democratization, democratization. It shouldn't just be eight old white dudes in a boardroom deciding everything. It should be the fans.

[A]

This is it. I guess. But now it's not. Is it the fans or is it the freaking algorithm?

[B]

It's the algorithm. It probably is still the A world white dudes. It just doesn't look like it anymore. We solved it.

[A]

But I guess they would say the algorithm is the fans. But like, I don't know.

[B]

I feel very manipulated when I'm interacting with the algorithm.

[A]

Very manipulated.

[B]

Anytime I'm on anything with the algorithm, I'm feeling super manipulated.

[A]

Right, right. And also, is it just me? Yeah, like, and also it's still money wins. Cause if you have money to like push out your posts, then they'll get seen to more people, you know.

[B]

But it was. And the truth is it was probably always that to a degree. But the machine, in order to keep

[A]

the facade going, the machine, I guess gave you money.

[B]

The machine was an investor. But in order to keep the facade going, the machine would also. It would find the kid from the other side of the tracks and bring him in and put him around talented people.

[A]

Him or her or her.

[B]

And put them around talented people and bring that did. There were legitimate so many stories of that. And I was like, that can't ever happen again. But now that it's so much more wild and open, there's anyone, if anyone with money can do that. And there's no barrier to entry anymore because like it used to be it didn't matter how much money you have. If Hollywood wasn't Whatever. Hollywood wasn't messing with you. It was like, good luck. You can't compete with them now. You can if everyone with money can compete.

[A]

Isn't this, like, the Met gala criticism this year? Like, it is. Bezos and like, Lawrence is trying to, like, buy their way into cultural relevancy. But, like, it is. It is gross that we're kind of controlled by, like, the tech oligarchy now. It's kind of disgusting to me.

[B]

It's extremely disgusting. It's. Are we trading one thing for another?

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

Well, were we always controlled by some kind of oligarchy? And now it's the tech bros turn. We gave. We hand it over to them for whatever reason or is it getting worse? Was it. Did we have more freedom before? And now it's getting. Are we handing it over to them through our phones?

[A]

God. Well, this is an existential. This is another podcast. This is another episode.

[B]

Micah would drop it.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I guess I got us on a tangent with that.

[B]

I knew it was gonna happen.

[A]

Oh, my God. I can't help myself.

[B]

It's okay. I think it was a good time. I feel like it was a good.

[A]

Good way to tie in.

[B]

Yeah. What a good way to tie. It wouldn't be. It wouldn't be a Ryan and Sumi conversation if we didn't eventually complain about the patriarchy.

[A]

That's very true.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

About the patriarchy. Fuck yeah.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

Which it's funny because we've disagreed about the patriarchy before.

[B]

Yeah. No, I don't believe the patriarchy exists.

[A]

No, he does.

[B]

White men need more. No, I'm not gonna say. Finish that story.

[A]

Don't even joke about that.

[B]

You and I have had some great debates.

[A]

I guess there's, like. There's a lot of nuance in there,

[B]

though I will say, I think a lot of our disagreements usually wouldn't. By the end of it, we would find out. It was usually because you or I had misinterpreted it way back and you thought I was saying something way worse than it was or I thought you were saying something way worse.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cause it usually came out that we ended up pretty close to the same side by the end. Like, oh, you.

[A]

Okay. In case the listeners don't know, we did a whole podcast. It was like a season.

[B]

Season. That's a great. Yeah.

[A]

It was a season called. Do you remember what it was called?

[B]

Wtf? I shouldn't ask beforehand. Do we. Can we curse on the dream? We can curse. We can curse. It was called. What the do we do now?

[A]

But it was what the bleep do we do?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, depending. Who do you do you do you edit it?

[A]

He's like, I don't know who edits it. I have an editor.

[B]

You have an editor. Okay. Sorry to put you on the spot. You gotta have your editor put in the bleep.

[A]

Yeah, right, right, right.

[B]

And keep the pardon about me explaining the bleep.

[A]

Absolutely. We'll put the bleep. Yeah. And where we just ranted about the state of the world for like a good three months,

[B]

we would. And do you remember what was always ingredient number two in the what the fuck do we do now Soup? It was ranting about current events and.

[A]

Wait. That was such a good podcast. Dang.

[B]

And it was the Sumi's dating life.

[A]

Well, it wasn't, was it really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did we talk about that a lot?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

We tried to bring it back to.

[B]

It was just so fun because it was. We mixed it with basically what was going on in our current. Current lives.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you love.

[A]

Somehow I was the target, not your marriage. I'm sure your wife would have been happy about that.

[B]

I think we. Actually, that came up a few times too.

[A]

We did talk about that.

[B]

There was even an episode I had to clear with my wife before we put it out. That's right.

[A]

That's right. Okay, everybody go check out. What the bleep do we do now?

[B]

Let him bleep it. Give him one clean.

[A]

What the fuck do we do now?

[B]

Great.

[A]

Perfect. No, that was. Those were some fun episodes. If you want. If you want to feel not alone.

[B]

Yeah, that was the point. To feel not alone. Yeah.

[A]

Which we could bring back.

[B]

I'm down.

[A]

We could like do.

[B]

Just tell me when. Sumi's so busy now, guys, this whole podcast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Jesus. I'm over there. Listen, I'm over at my little studio, just whenever, just waiting, just waiting.

[A]

Just waiting for Sumi, the spongebob and the diner meme.

[B]

Just my coffee. I told you that would happen. You remember? I told you that would happen.

[A]

Yeah, you did. You did. But it's crazy because there's. It's just. You're right. It's non stop. It's like I don't even know how to keep up with everything.

[B]

Oh, you want to be an artist. I hope you don't like being in the studio and making music. I know you're not going to be doing that.

[A]

I know.

[B]

That is something that didn't change. That was the. I learned that truth back in the machine. Days. I learned it back then. It was. That was Flows. Flows guy. He's got to go work out, and then he's got to go shoot a music video where he's gonna be working out.

[A]

But he worked out. Cause he wants to work out. Right?

[B]

But it was all part of the artist thing. It was his image. He. The flow rider, was a flow rider. And this what I learned about him is he was a machine, just like every artist is a machine. And there's a person in there, just like there is with every artist. But what sells is whatever the artist is. And the person will contribute, whatever they'll contribute to that. For some artists, like, it's just them.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

For some artists, it feels, you know, like Rihanna is one that's kind of considered more. She's just hanging out. It's just Rihanna. She's not. This is just her first. Beyonce is, like, probably a much more cultivated. I've not worked with Beyonce, so I won't speak with any knowledge directly about how her camp runs. But she's considered more to be like a. They're putting this together.

[A]

Did you ever work with Rihanna?

[B]

One time. I got to work with Rihanna one time.

[A]

Wait, tell us about that. Bring us into the room.

[B]

So I was working with Esther Dean a lot. I was her. I was her engineer for a little bit, which was super fun because Esther was working with Mike and she needed an engineer. And I was kind of next man up at the time, and Esther and I got along. It was awesome. We're in Santa Monica right now. Esther had a studio.

[A]

Tell everyone who. Esther Dean.

[B]

Esther Dean is a prolific songwriter. She wrote. I think her biggest might be Firework by Katy Perry. But she had an insane run also with Rihanna. What was rude boy was her. I don't think she was an umbrella. I don't think she. She. That she might have come after Umbrella. But anyway, yeah, look up. Esther Dean is a phenomenally successful songwriter. Brilliant songwriter. And I got the pleasure of working with her for a little while, being her. Her engineer. And one of those sessions we were at was also here on the west side. It was. I think it closed, but it was. The pressure of the podcast just makes me forget things. What was Windmark? It was Windmark Studios, which was Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis's old stud. Did a bunch of the Janet Jackson stuff.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That closed. Got rebought. Brandon as Windmark, and we were working there. Esther was there, and I came in. I knew I was coming there just to work with her. I didn't know anything else? Yeah, she wasn't there yet. I'm sitting in the. The. No, Esther. Sorry. I'm getting. I got. This was a while ago. Esther had gotten there. So Esther and I were working together, and then she's just. They brought her beats, which is. She's looping. I got headphones on, and then we're in one of the writing rooms at Onemark. And then the door opens, and I. Cause there's a mic in the room. I started recording in the room. I heard the door open on my headphones, and I hear this voice from behind me go, hey, girl. And I got up, and I turned around, and there's Rihanna standing there. She is stunning in person. She is. I mean, the cameras don't. She is a presence in person. That was my immediate takeaway. She was so nice. She, like, went over and hugged us, and she immediately just turned to me and she goes, is this your new boy? She came and she gave me a hug, and we got to just me, her, and Esther, and we chatted for,

[A]

like, two hours, chilling, like, chatting for a song or, like, just chatting.

[B]

She was giving Esther. So the whole. They were having a camp, and I found this out after the fact. Good thing, too. Cause I'd have been like, oh, my God, Rihanna's coming. Thank God. I wasn't. I didn't know.

[A]

But you'd have been nervous.

[B]

Absolutely. Oh, my God. Be cool. Be cool. The fact that I didn't. I. I didn't get jittery till after she got there, but they were just writing songs for her. She was there. Her and Esther had worked together for a while, so she was catching up with her friend, and she was like, okay, so for the new project, this is what I'm thinking. It was that kind of. And they chatted for a few hours. And then I think Kook, her vocal producer, who I, at that exact same time, was working with at Atlantic for a different artist, literally, earlier that day. I'd been at Atlantic earlier that day working with Kook for a different artist. Went to Windmark that night to work with Esther. And then after chatting with Rihanna for a few hours, Kook came in the room. It's me, Esther, and Rihanna. Kook opens the door first. He's expecting to walk into a room with Rihanna to tell her, like, hey, girl, we gotta go record. That's what he's. He sees me and his face, he just breaks. Cause it's not at all. He's like' Cause I was with him, like, three hours prior to that and he goes like, ryan, Rihanna hears him, and he, like, stands up and goes, kook. And then he has to, like, switch. This is also. I'd make this brief, but Kook. One of Kook's big things. Kook. I stole so much sauce from Kook. He is legendary vocal producer. I. He's so, so good at what he does. I stole so much of what I do from him. Thank you, Kook. But one of the things he does is he's. He's very. He. He makes sure the artist has a very curated time around him because he wants to have them in the right headspace for recording all the time for the vocal producers out there. So important. Do not neglect that your artists have to if they're going to be singing and in a space. So he's very. And he was gonna go collect Rihanna. And, like, he was already.

[A]

What kind of stuff. What kind of environments did he put her in before and after or before.

[B]

I don't mean, like, he wouldn't, like, take her to, like, a broom or anything. I just mean, like, how you feel.

[A]

I want to be sent to, like, a spa or, like, a sauna.

[B]

He never took it to that level. And it sounds like he was really screwing up by not so Kook. Sumi's words of advice for you. You were, congratulations on the great career. You could have been way more successful had you been taking Rihanna to a spa. You're doing it all. Come to sue me next time. But anyway, it was just. Just his mannerisms. He was. Cause, you know, like, it didn't matter what kind of day he was having. It didn't matter if he was pissed that, like, the mic hadn't been working a second ago and that no one had his stuff ready. He was very careful about when you deal with the singer, your energy has to be what it needs to be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And his. It's not like I screwed his energy up or anything, but he was just like, oh, my God, Ryan, what are you. And then Rihanna. And he was like, oh, yeah, quick. It's like, oh, my God. So I had to quickly explain to him, I work with Esther. There's nothing. This is what. And he had to, like, do some math. So that's how. The random thing. But, dude, she was so nice. We chatted about, like, how. How annoying it was for her to never be able to go to a mall. She just earlier that day, tried to go to the grove. She loved the Grove. And she was like. I got.

[A]

She mentioned she travel with, like, security.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. She Literally said she got up to, like, a certain. Was it the Grove? I might be screwing. If Rihanna. When Rihanna hears this girl, I might be screwing up. What? Jamal, you were saying. But she was. She got up to, like, a certain point in it might have been the Beverly Center.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They learned to turn around and leave because it was just. She was getting mobbed. She was getting. I think that the point when they had to leave, it was something about, like, security for the mall was, like, begging her to leave.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Like, we can't have you here. Please go. And she was just. She was literally sad. Esther was having to tell, like, I'm sorry.

[A]

Right? No, that's.

[B]

It was wild. I was like, wow. You get this actually.

[A]

What year. What year was that? Around. I mean, I guess she was. She grew up, like, a way long time ago.

[B]

14, 15ish.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Probably, like, pre Anti. She was probably working on Anti when that. When that was happening. That was probably what they were curating for at that time. But, yeah, that was cool. Rihanna was super nice and stunning. Stunning in person.

[A]

Wow. I'm sure she'd be appreciative of that.

[B]

So she's gonna be like, yeah, I remember that. Ryan was great.

[A]

Yeah. What are some of your, like. What are your, like, top three favorite memories from your experience at Atlantic?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Or at least top one. I don't. That's a hard question, though.

[B]

So can I narrow it down? Just that it had to happen at Atlantic or do I mean, like, just recording in general?

[A]

I would say recording in general.

[B]

Favorite.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. There's no way I'm gonna pick one, but let me. I'll just briefly list off a couple that, for some reason, sit near the top. My wife and I are huge fans of T Pain. In fact, the recessional at our wedding was a piano ballad version of buy you a drink.

[A]

No way. I'm not kidding about that.

[B]

It was one of the. And the piano. We pitched it to the piano player at our. A rehearsal for the wedding. We were like, because, you know, oh, pick this. Very traditional pianos for this part of the. Then when you guys come down there, we're doing this. And for the recession, her and I looked at each other. We're like, can you do buy you a drink by T? And to this guy's credit, I wish I could shout him out right now, because we got married in 2016, so this was a while ago. But he was like. He literally. He's just kind of like, oh, yeah, I got you, everyone. Yeah, I do this kind of stuff. All the time. And he immediately go. He's on a piano. He played immediately, like, the most gorgeous piano ballad version of Bayou Drink. And he played it. All right, so anyway, that's like a

[A]

great cover series to just take, like, real. Real, like, hard hip hop songs and, like, make them piano ballads.

[B]

There's probably. There's probably some out there. I'm sure if you look it up on YouTube, there's probably an AI version of that right now.

[A]

Okay, skip that.

[B]

AI versions of it.

[A]

Go ahead.

[B]

Anyway, so I've always been a big. My wife and I are both big fans of T Pain, and I got to work with him once. It was him and Charlie Puth was another. He was signed to Mike, and Charlie was always at the studio. I think I might have had Charlie's first session at Atlantic.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He wrote slow motion for T Pain. In fact, if you listen to slow motion, T Pain. Sorry, Trey songs.

[A]

Trey songs. Okay.

[B]

Charlie wrote slow motion for Trey songs.

[A]

Wait, slow motion for me?

[B]

That's juvenile.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

In slow motion. Sorry, I can't sing.

[A]

Neither can I, apparently, right now. Oh, okay. Okay, okay.

[B]

If you listen, that song, by the way, the backgrounds, the harmonies behind Trey's lead, that's all Charlie. Those are Charlie's. Those are Charlie's. But I think Trey also sang some too, but they kept Charlie's in. Also, the reason I have credit on Timber is not because I recorded Ke$ha or Pitbull. It's because I recorded the songwriters and they kept the songwriters, vocals, backgrounds in Happens all the time in big songs.

[A]

That's interesting.

[B]

Just wanted to briefly throw that. That's how I got the Timber credit. I since later did get to work with Pitbull, but. But not on that song. Okay. Anyway, so, yeah, I would work with Charlie a lot. And like I said, I think his first session at Atlantic might have been me and him. It was like him and I in this session full of, like, all these, like, R and B dudes, and he's just this awkward white kid, and I'm just this awkward white kid, and we're both just like. He was like, this is my first session, man. I was like, you're doing great, dude. You got. This song's awesome. And then Charlie went on to explode. But, yeah, I got to work with him a bunch. And one of the sessions that he got to do there was they brought T Pain in, and him and T Pain got to work together, and I got to engineer that session.

[A]

And so for being such a T Pain fan, that was like A moment.

[B]

Dude, I got. So he was super into Twitch. He still is. He's huge on Twitch, right? And this was years ago. This was probably, like, 2018, I'm gonna guess. He opened. He was streaming on Twitch while he was at the studio. We were, like, waiting for, like, some edit to get made by one of the other producers. He had a minute, and so he just opens up his laptop and he starts. And I'm over on the couch on my phone. Cause I was just waiting, too. And he was just talking to some other. And all of a sudden, I hear him talking. He's got the headset on, and he's doing that. And I look up and he goes, like, you know, I'm just in the studio right now. And we got Ryan hanging over there. Hey, Ryan, say hi to everyone. And he turns his laptop and, like, I'm like. And he goes back to playing. I went home later that night and found out he was apparently, like, 7 million people had just looked at me. He was giant on Twitch. And I just.

[A]

T Pain or Charlie Puth.

[B]

T Pain.

[A]

Oh, T. Pain.

[B]

Giant on Twitch. And was just playing and super funny. T. Pain is like, God, that was such a fun session. And the most memorable part, the reason that's so high on my list isn't even anything like that. They had the most fun music nerd discussion because Charlie's a renowned Berkeley kid. Music nerd. Like, he's known for that. And he loved having music nerd conversations. It's one of my favorite things about working with him was just listening to him go deep on that kind of stuff. And T Pain is too. T. Pain knows harmony, and he knows, like, T Pain.

[A]

He's.

[B]

The key's T. Pain. He knows how that stuff works. And hearing those two just build a song together and talk about which harmonies work and why. And Charlie's naming the chord, and then T Pain's coming over and saying, why this one? What if we had this? Hearing them discuss that kind of stuff, like melodic structure and harmonic structure. Dude.

[A]

Yeah, that was.

[B]

That was awesome. Moments like that were super duper cool, right?

[A]

Being in the room with literally, like, the bests.

[B]

Yeah, that was. That was way up there. So you asked for one? I said I was gonna briefly name many. And then I just talked about T Pain for a while. I don't know if that's my number one, because I've also had a lot. But that one was really fun.

[A]

Fun, right?

[B]

Because I. I loved working with Charlie. And yeah, T Pain was.

[A]

I love it. Well, we have Talked for almost an hour and. Sorry. Everyone could literally talk to you for days.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Yeah. So, no, this isn't such a great conversation. I think we should definitely do a part two and maybe even sprinkle in some what the do we do now Episodes.

[B]

If we make sure you bleep that. What's your editor's name? Oh, I just put you on the spot.

[A]

No, I know, I know. Well, we don't have, like, a specific.

[B]

Oh, you. Okay, rotate.

[A]

We have, like, a cast of editor.

[B]

Well, dear editor, as you're listening to this, please, please put that bleep in there.

[A]

Put the bleep in. We'll put the bleep in.

[B]

I love it so much.

[A]

Yeah, we'll tell Laura. Actually, Laura communicates.

[B]

Laura communicates everything. She helps set all this up. It was great.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. This was awesome. I'm so down for part two. I'm down to do all that.

[A]

Amazing. Thank you so much. This was great.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Yay. By the way, do you have anything next in your career that you're most excited about? Oh, and actually, I want to end on this one question that I forgot to ask you. What advice would you have for, like, young creatives trying to, like, make it in a creative pursuit?

[B]

What advice? Make sure you love the journey. Don't if all that gets you through. Cause being a creative, making it as a creative is brutal.

[A]

And there is no making it right. Like, is there a destination?

[B]

Well, there's if it depends. It's up to your own definition of it. So one piece of advice is you should have a definition of that. Otherwise you're chasing a dragon you're never going to catch. So you should have a definition of that so that one day you can be happy.

[A]

Could it be, like, a new definition every year?

[B]

Sure. You're never going to be happy, though.

[A]

Oh, you think you can eventually sit on your laurels.

[B]

I guess you can keep trying to accomplish things, but just don't tie it to your happiness.

[A]

Okay, fair.

[B]

That's the important thing. But you should. Yeah, there's nothing you should. Yeah, trying to accomplish things is awesome. But what sucks about being a creative is that it gets so closely t to like your own. Making it as an accountant doesn't like is less likely to break you as a human than making or breaking it in something like music or a creative endeavor. Sorry, accountants. Maybe there's some out there that are just super into it, but it's more common with creatives. So we are very susceptible to, like, when you don't make it. Or when just anything you create fails, it hurts. How do you deal with that? And my biggest piece of advice would be this, like, make sure you're falling in love with the journey. Like, if your day to day sucks, but you just keep thinking about, bro, when I. I got the big house in the hills and I got the money and the cars or whatever. Whatever that thing is. Or when I have all the followers on whatever, when I'm getting so and so liking my. If that's what's doing it for you, you are gonna suffer a lot. If you're someone who just has fun. And I meet people who don't mind the content creation part. They have a healthy relationship with it. They enjoy the fun parts of it and understand why they need to, though. I'm not worried about those guys. They're gonna, they're gonna be okay. They're. They're. They're gonna be able to adapt to whatever it is. But if you can't love the journey, bro, that's my advice.

[A]

I love that. I love that so much. And I heard a definition that. That just reminded me of one of my, like, best friends told me that, like, success is how well you solve your problems. And I was like, oh, that is actually kind of mind blowing.

[B]

Oh, man. But then I have to constantly keep doing it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Cause you can be the most successful person in the world, but then you, like, can't get the peanut butter jar open and now you're a failure.

[A]

Well, once you are, like, super successful, new level, new devil, there's always new problems, right?

[B]

It is. Eventually, I feel like eventually it comes back down, though. Like, I just love that image of someone, like, having conquered the world. And then he's at home and his assistant went home. Their assistant went home for the day, and they're just not gonna get this

[A]

beer, throw it against the.

[B]

I'll buy a new one. Fun. Anyway, I love it.

[A]

I love that we end there. Thank you so much, Ryan.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you, everyone.

[A]

Bye.