Cassidy Zachary (3:16)

Yeah, it's crazy looking back now, where we have over, I think, 350 episodes,

April Callahan (3:21)

or I think it's almost 400.

Cassidy Zachary (3:25)

Yeah. So. But in those early days, dress listeners, I mean, we of course, wrote our entire episodes, and then April and I practiced them before we got on air.

April Callahan (3:38)

Needless to say, that doesn't happen anymore. Who has time for that?

Cassidy Zachary (3:43)

Anyways, fast forward to today. Obviously, we have hopefully gotten a lot better at podcasting. We have this epic catalog of dress the History of Fashion podcast episodes. And looking back, April, Charles Frederick Roth was, of course, a natural place to start, as he's really considered, as our title of that episode suggests, the first modern fashion designer, the founding father of the haute couture. And, you know, that episode was also significant in that it included this wonderful interview with Hyland. Booker Hyland, in 1967, became the first black designer to helm an haute couture brand when he was hired to head the House of Worth. And this episode really set the tone for what we wanted to do with the podcast, which was, of course, celebrate the history of fashion, but also expanding the way fashion history has traditionally been told and explored. Fast forward to today, and we have. Oh, I have the number, actually. We have 384 episodes doing just that.

April Callahan (4:43)

And as we head towards the final episodes of our fifth season and begin preparing for our sixth, we thought it would be super fun to look back and reflect on our time together. Dressed listeners revisiting some of our favorite episodes, familiar to our longtime listeners, perhaps, and maybe helping out our new listeners to decide what type of episodes they would like to check out from the archive. And actually, when I meet somebody new and somebody asks me about the podcast, it almost always comes up that they want recommendations. So this is our way of doing just that.

Cassidy Zachary (5:17)

Yeah, and it's funny because I'm like, oh, this will remind our longtime listeners. But I don't know about you, April, but going back through our catalog, it also reminded me there is so many episodes that I completely forgot about.

April Callahan (5:29)

Yes. The fact that we did a minisode on Terry Mugler. Yes, totally forgot about that.

Cassidy Zachary (5:34)

Yeah. We've now done two.

April Callahan (5:36)

Stay tuned, because there's gonna be more that's coming from.

Cassidy Zachary (5:40)

And obviously, this is a huge undertaking, and we are in no way going to address all of our episodes. But to help us in highlighting episodes, we've divided them into different themes that we will explore this week across two episodes. So today and Thursday. So, April, are you Ready to head back into the fashion history of our fashion history podcast?

April Callahan (6:02)

Let's do it.

Cassidy Zachary (6:05)

So I think the natural beginning, the first topic theme that we wanted to do was fashion designers. So Charles Frederick Wirth is, of course, just one of many designers we've highlighted on the show. So we've done episodes on Givenchy, Schiaparelli, Dior, Gucci, Marie Antoinette's right hand, Lady Rose Bertin. I mean, the list goes on. April, I'd love to know, what are some of your favorite designer episodes?

April Callahan (6:30)

Okay, well, there's a elephant in the room that we have to talk about quite obviously, and that is what the hell is going on at Balenciaga. We have actually brought this up in the past, this past summer. We got into this Balenciaga controversy a little bit back then when they launched the Trash Bag. Well, let's just say things have gone downhill since then. We're not going to discuss this today, but Cass and I actually have quite a bit to say about this. And so stay tuned. Maybe when things calm down a little bit, we will be talking about that on the podcast, maybe early season six. But just to remind us all what the House of Balenciaga was always about, which was craftsmanship and silhouette and artistry, innovation, really pushing that silhouette. None of this height nonsense that's happening right now. Let's all go back and listen to our episode, Balenciaga the Master of Us all, which is, of course, an interview with Maren Arzeluz, who is one of the world's foremost authorities on Crystal Ball Balenciaga, and that aired on December 4, 2018. So if you want to know what the house should be about, go back and listen to that episode because that is not what it is currently.

Cassidy Zachary (7:48)

Well, yeah, and I was reading, I think, Sheri of Shrimpton Couture, who's like vintage authority, haute couture reseller. She was commenting on the fact that a lot of people today that follow Balenciaga, the brand today, had no idea that Balenciaga is actually a real human who founded the brand and who, let's just say, would not be pleased. I mean, I think he would be shocked he might die again if he came back.

April Callahan (8:14)

It couldn't be the more opposite to say. But clearly I have feelings on this, so I'm gonna be quiet now.

Cassidy Zachary (8:21)

So another one of our very first episodes on the podcast in April, I'm sure this comes as no surprise to you that I'm highlighting it is our episode, the King of Fashion, Paul Par, who was really fashion's enfant terrible designer of the early 20th century. He's actually on some of our very first merch designs, as is Charles Frederick Wirtz. I mean, he's so sassy, April, is he not? And so fun.

April Callahan (8:47)

Yes, yes, yes, yes. One of my favorite photographs, and I think we used it on our merch, is a photo of him when he got drafted into the army during World War I. He's in his army uniform, but he has his hand on his hip that's popped out, and he's smoking a cigarette. It's pretty fabulous.

Cassidy Zachary (9:03)

Yeah. As we know, he never saw the front lines, but, I mean, he is a character also one of the most groundbreaking designers of the early 20th century. And so. So that's a really interesting and fun episode. So definitely check that out. Dress listeners, you'll have to go back in our archive all the way to 2018.

April Callahan (9:20)

Speaking of characters, how could we not mention, in terms of designers, Valentina.

Cassidy Zachary (9:26)

Oh, yeah.

April Callahan (9:27)

Our episode launched on September 18, 2019, was on Valentina Schley. And she is really known as being an American fashion designer, but she wasn't American at all. So at the time, she was born in the Russian Empire, but in what is now the Ukraine. She's fascinating, a little bit controversial, intoxicatingly beautiful, pathological liar, and also the lover of Greta Garbo. So. And an immensely talented designer besides all of this. So go back and check that out if you want to learn a little bit more about Valentina Schley.

Cassidy Zachary (10:05)

You know, one of the things we want to do on the podcast is highlight these people who you and I may know, but may others may not. So one of my favorite episodes is on Salvacion Lim Higgins, who is not a European or American designer, but is a groundbreaking Filipino fashion designer who opened her boutique in 1947, the same year as Christian Dior, and remained open until, I think her. Until the 80s or 90s, until her passing. And I had the pleasure of interviewing her son, Mark Lewis Higgins, about his mother's incredible work. I mean, talk about a master of form and color. I'm now pleased to call Mark a dear friend, and it was such a pleasure to speak with him about his mother's legacy. And he sent me this beautiful catalog of her work. And she's getting so much recognition currently. She was just recognized as a Philippine national artist, only the second fashion designer ever to receive that distinction. And just such an incredible woman and legacy. And we did that interview in 2021. It's called fashioning the Philippines. Salvacion Limhagen and of course, we've done

April Callahan (11:13)

a lot of episodes specifically on American fashion history, including episodes on designers like Charles James, Bonnie Cashin, Scott Berry, Zelda Wynn Valdez, Nudi Cohen, Rudy Gernreich, Claire McCardell, and one of my all time favorite designers, Elizabeth Hawes, who is to be getting quite of a bit of attention, I might say. I know of not one, but two upcoming museum exhibitions that are going to be on Haas.

Cassidy Zachary (11:40)

Oh, that's exciting.

April Callahan (11:41)

Yeah. So stay tuned for that in 2023 and I think 2024, friends. Or in the meantime, if you want your Elizabeth Hawes fix, you can go back to our episode from March 27th of 2018 entitled Elizabeth Hawes, Fashion Rebel. And she really, truly was an iconoclast in every sense of the word. You know, she's really, even though lesser known, really considered one of the greatest designers that American fashion has ever produced. She was not only a fashion designer, but she was a labor organizer, a social activist, and she even garnered quite the hefty FBI file for investigation of her activities. So I'm just gonna tease it a little bit with that.

Cassidy Zachary (12:25)

And you actually know her son as well?

April Callahan (12:27)

Yeah, Gavrick Losi. So Gavrick and I are incommunicado here and there from time to time.

Cassidy Zachary (12:36)

One of my very first episodes that I wrote, if not the first episode I wrote, is on the American fashion designer Elizabeth Keckley. It's entitled Elizabeth keckley, quote unquote, 30 years a slave to White House Dressmaker. That is the title of her memoir, I think she. She wrote in either the 1870s or 80s. But she's been getting a lot of attention, well, long overdue attention. Her designs were featured in the recent exhibition In America anthology, which was the second part of that two part exhibition. She was an enslaved woman who bought her and her son's freedom. And then she went on to become not just a dressmaker, but the premier dressmaker and fashion designer for the elite of the wash of Washington D.C. and the Civil War era period. And she not only designed clothing for Mary Todd Lincoln, she was also a confidant and friend of the Lincolns, something she details in her memoir. So if you want to learn more about her incredible life and journey, you can check out that episode from 2018.

April Callahan (13:38)

Also living quite the incredible life was Lee Miller, who we did episode on in July of 2021. July 6, 2021. And when I say her life was extraordinary, it truly was. And she lived it on her own terms. She started out as A model amused to even Man Ray. And then she ended up becoming a photographer and a boots on the ground war correspondent during World War II. So in this particular episode we interview Lee Miller's granddaughter, Amy Boohusane, and also one of our favorite fashion historians who's been on the show a couple different times now, Amber Butchart. And if you want to check it out, they actually wrote a book together entitled Lee Miller Miller Fashion in Wartime Britain. So you can get your hands on that after you listen to the episode.

Cassidy Zachary (14:24)

Love, Love Amber, of course. I'm sure she will be back in the future.

April Callahan (14:28)

No doubt.

Cassidy Zachary (14:29)

One of my favorite episodes that I've written was not on an American designer, but an American fashion. Well, not even a fashion photographer. One of the most iconic photographers of the 20th century who happened to work in fashion and thus allowed us this entry point to talking about his incredible life. And that is Gordon Parks. Gordon Parks, the Man of Many Hats is an episode that we debuted in 9 11, 2018. I mean, undeniably one of the 20th and 21st century's greatest luminaries. He's most famous for his prolific career as a photojournalist for Life magazine. But he actually was also a fashion photographer. So you can find his fashion photographs in Life magazine. And he has this wonderful story about when he was working, I think as a porter or a waiter on a train. And he and women would leave their Vogue magazines and he would pick them up and flip through them. I think this was in the 20s and 30s and really was inspired into fashion. So for him it wasn't something that was necessarily separate from his work, but part and parcel to what he did as someone who captured the world around him. So really incredible man, really fun episode. So check that out.

April Callahan (15:40)

And a true Renaissance human as well, I might say. He was so supremely talented. Everything that he picked up as a hobby or even a profession, it was just turned to gold. He was one of those extraordinary individuals.

Cassidy Zachary (15:53)

Absolutely.

April Callahan (15:53)

For sure, Cass. I also just want to mention that not only have I written my master's thesis on American fashion or an aspect of it, so have you. So we should probably mention that very briefly because we have of course turned that research, that copious, extensive research into dressed episodes as well. I wrote my MA thesis on the American fashion designer Tina Lesser and basically her love of textiles from around the globe, her promotion of them into American fashion at large, and also her views on fashion as philanthropy. You can tune into our Tina Lieser episode if you want to check that out. I can't remember the date, I don't have it written down. Sorry, guys.

Cassidy Zachary (16:41)

And just last year, I turned my research into an episode called the Rise of the American Designer, inspired by the Met's exhibition on American fashion, which was, of course, in a lexicon of fashion. I wanted to really look back and explore and teach people about the rise of the American fashion designer. Because today that's something we, of course, take for granted. We have so, so many talented American fashion designers. But in the early 20th century, American fashion designers really operated anonymously under the, you know, giant umbrella of Parisian fashion. And that was because Parisian fashion was just so internationally revered that you really couldn't sell American fashion. Everyone in the States wanted Parisian fashion. So we talk about that in our episode the Rise of the American Designer, which is from 921 21. And of course, I put my research in there on Ethel Traphagen, who was a pioneering American designer, but also advocate for American design, and had one of the very first schools dedicated exclusively to training fashion industry professionals, the Trapegan School of Fashion, which opened in the 1920s in New York. So if you're interested in that dress, listeners, you can check that episode out.

April Callahan (17:51)

And there are so many luminaries of the American fashion industry that actually attended Traphagen. Of course, it doesn't exist anymore, I just want to point out, but when it did, it was a major player in the game.

Cassidy Zachary (18:02)

Oh, absolutely. And one of those names that has really fallen into obscurity because it closed, I think, in the 90s, when, of course, Parsons and Fit all still exist today. So those are kind of the names you associate with fashion education. But Traphagen was a really, really big and important school at that time. And April, I just want to say too, it's funny looking at all of our episodes by theme, because some of us, you know, obviously more of your episodes are in one theme, some more of my episodes are in another. And you've done a ton of episodes on American fashion, which of course is because that is your specialty as someone who works in the special collections department at fat.

April Callahan (18:41)

It's true. Guilty as charged. Also just seems to have always been a special interest of mine too, for whatever reason. But, you know, there are also American fashion historians or fashion historians who specialize in in American fashion that aren't American. Rebecca Arnold happens to be one of as well. She's British, but she specializes in American fashion, so it works both ways and

Cassidy Zachary (19:02)

has been on the show to discuss the American look.

April Callahan (19:11)

Cast. Today is a bit of a cold, rainy day in New York City. And I am happy to report that I was able to pop on my new Issey Miyake raincoat for the first time. Or maybe rather I should say new to me. Me as I got it on the RealReal.

Cassidy Zachary (19:26)

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April Callahan (19:43)

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Cassidy Zachary (19:59)

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April Callahan (20:23)

dressed listeners, spring is in the air and this week I'm about to embark on a major wardrobe cleanout. And every time I do this it becomes quite obvious to me that I do need to replace some basics like T shirts, maybe a few pair of everyday pants and dare I say it, unmentionables.

Cassidy Zachary (20:40)

And that my friends, is why we love quints. Their lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops start at $30 and are effortless, breathable and easy to wear on repeat. They use premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality and craftsmanship, not brand markup and Cas.

April Callahan (21:03)

As you know, I am completely in love with their second skin bras and undies. The fabric is so light sometimes I don't even realize that I'm wearing them. And I actually just ordered 12 more pair to refresh my lingerie drawer.

Cassidy Zachary (21:16)

Refresh your everyday with luxury. You'll actually use head to quince.com dressed for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com dressed for free shipping and 365 day returns quints.com dressed so moving on to our next topic or theme, dressed listeners, what would the history of fashion be without high heels, dresses, fans, glasses, sunglasses and blue jeans, or, I don't know, paper patterns, sunscreen, fishnets, polka dots, poodle skirts, wonder bras and shorts.

April Callahan (21:56)

Well, the commonality there is that we have done episodes on all of these. And of course, some more obscure objects like Victorian hair and mourning jewelry, mermaid tails in terms of the silhouette of garments, tie on pockets, dust ruffles, chatelaines, count chardonnay and a quest for artificial silk was the topic of one fashion history mystery, as also was a curious case of cellophane couture.

Cassidy Zachary (22:23)

Absolutely. And we have episodes of all of these in the archive. What are some of your favorites, April?

April Callahan (22:29)

Definitely one of my favorites has to be a two parter that we aired last year with Elise S. Carter, and that was entitled the Red How Lipstick Changed the Face of America, part one and part two that aired in September of 2021. And it was really, really fascinating because Elisa's work really uses lipstick as a lens to examine the sort of hopes, dreams and anxieties of American society throughout history. We also discuss lipstick in the context of feminism and makeup in the context of feminism. And believe it or not, we also wander down the path of talking about things like Blade Runner and Boy George versus 90s hair bands like Poison Ivy and Motley Crue, who were also wearing makeup and lipstick. So if you've listened to the show before, we all know that I'm a huge lipstick fanatic. I don't know. I went out the other day.

Cassidy Zachary (23:25)

Borderline problem.

April Callahan (23:26)

It's a problem, friends. It's a problem.

Cassidy Zachary (23:31)

And we've of course also explored specific types of clothing. So, you know, from protest dress to subcultural style to wedding dresses. And one of my favorite topics that we've talked about is sportswear. We've done, you know, I've, I did an episode on the etiquette of bicycling. I did an episode on driving fashion. And then last year we interviewed creators at the Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising in California, Christina Johnson and Kevin Jones, on their exceptionally well done sporting fashion exhibition. I know you'll join me, April, in talking about how epic that exhibition was. And we were so impressed with the level of care and detail that they put into every single piece that they accessorized. So they've accessorized women's fashion from, I think, 1800 to 1960. The exhibition was called Sporting Fashion Outdoor Girls 1800 to 1960. And they spent this incredible amount of time sourcing everything from period specific ice skates, you know, Kind of racket.

April Callahan (24:33)

Yeah, Driving goggles.

Cassidy Zachary (24:37)

And they just, they did such an incredible, incredible job. And that of course, so many of the topics we feature on the show. We do a lot of interviews with curators of exhibitions and authors of books. And this is one of those catalogs that if you can get your hands on it, do it because you will not be disappointed.

April Callahan (24:54)

It would make an excellent Christmas gift. Just saying. And that exhibition, Sporting Fashion, I do believe is still touring and will be still touring for the next couple years. So it might be coming soon to a venue near you. You can check it out. You can just Google Sporting Fashion Exhibition Outdoor Girls. It's the subtitle of it. Speaking of sport casts, my next episode in this topic isn't necessarily an object per se, but rather something that supports the objects that we all wear. And that is the body. Our own bodies. In March 20, 2018, we did an episode with Emma McClendon entitled the Body, Fashion and Physique. And that episode explored how the body types considered ideal shifts over time. And we also talk a lot about corsets and undergarments in. In the shaping of silhouettes throughout fashion history as well. So that episode's still continues to this day to really get people. Cause we also do talk a little bit about the history of standardized sizing, but turn back into that because the body is of course the basis of it all.

Cassidy Zachary (26:06)

Yes. And something we all have experience with using, obviously. And I think that was actually our third episode that we ever did. So one of my other favorite episodes on specific objects or types of clothes, again going with the sporting theme was my, dare I say, epic four part episode from last season, Worn to Win, Dressing the Summer Olympic athlete. And April, you and I laugh about this all the time, but sometimes maybe I have a penchant of doing this more.

April Callahan (26:37)

You couldn't stop. You couldn't stop. It goes. Couldn't stop researching.

Cassidy Zachary (26:42)

It's like, oh, it's gonna be two parts and then I'm emailing you and saying, oh, or texting you. Well, I think it's gonna be three now. Okay. It's gonna be four and just going on. And it probably could have been an entire podcast series. So fascinating is the history of clothing that Olympians have put on their body and worn to these Olympic Games, which the modern incarnations have been happening since the late 19th century. I mean, just really. I'm a huge fan of the Olympics, as we all know. And so it was really fun to dive into the origin, learn about the organization, how it's progressed over the years. Learn about all the incredible athletes like Jesse Owens, you know, a black track and field star who just went to the 1930s, one of the 1930s Olympics in Nazi Hitler Germany and slayed everybody. So anyways, there's so many fabulous tales. Such a lot to learn about fashion too. Brands like Adidas and Puma and even Halston gets thrown in there. So check it out, dress listeners, if you want to learn more.

April Callahan (27:44)

Yeah, I can't let this topic go without mentioning another fave. I mean, lipstick. And then this other topic might be my other thing that I'm known for. That episode would be entitled Future A History of the Jumpsuit, where Andrea Lauer joined us on August 25th of 2020 to talk about the history of the jumpsuit, which of course started out, generally speaking, in the realm of aviation, kind of transitioned into workwear and is now, of course, high fashion. So if you would like to learn more about that, check that one out. So something that we started doing early on, I think it was at the very beginning of season two cast. The show went from once a week to twice a week. And we started doing that by having minisodes on Thursdays. And some of those initial minisodes were fashion history mysteries, which we still do. Those are inspired, of course, by listener questions that we didn't know the answer to. So I think we can all agree that we always have so much fun putting these together. We put our little dress detective hats on and then we head into usually the archive of some sort or another to research the questions that you all posed to us. And we actually haven't done one of these in a minute, so we should think about doing some early on in season six.

Cassidy Zachary (29:01)

Absolutely. So send us your fashion history mystery requests. Or perhaps we do have quite the running list of past the request, so we could check that out too.

April Callahan (29:11)

Yeah, we still have a spreadsheet.

Cassidy Zachary (29:13)

So many of those episodes deal with the origin story of a specific object or one of our most favorite things, which is discovering the origin of a word. I mean, past episodes include discovering the origin of Mary Janes Sailor and Peter Pan collars, flappers. April, what are some of your favorite episodes in the category of fashion history? And again, I never realized it till I started organizing, but this is a category you really dominate in.

April Callahan (29:40)

Ah, that's because I'm a huge word nerd.

Cassidy Zachary (29:43)

Yes.

April Callahan (29:45)

And because I love etymology, which is why one of my picks is definitely going to be from this year, Fashion history Mystery number 58, Alizarin to Zoster an A to Z of fun, strange and obscure fashion terminology. And I don't care who you are, I don't care if you are a professional fashion historian with a PhD. I definitely guarantee you tune into that episode and you are sure to learn at least one thing, if not several.

Cassidy Zachary (30:11)

Oh yeah. Super, super interesting. One of my favorite episodes takes us all the way back to, I think, 2018, our very first season, and that is Silhouette and Leotard, A Tale of Two Men. Because I think it was super interesting to learn that both of those terms have relationships to men. They were men before they were fashion related terms. So you'll have to check that out to learn more. But basically, Leotard, I think it was Jules Leotard was an acrobat in the 19th century. And then off the top of my head, I can't remember the first name of. Oh, Etienne Silhouette, I believe was a really unpopular finance minister in 18th century France. And to connect how he became associated with that silhouette that we're all familiar with, you'll have to tune in and listen to that. And actually that reminds me of one of our Fashion History now episodes, which is a series we started doing either in season three or four because we really wanted to explore contemporary incarnations of fashion history makers. And we did a silhouette cutting session with silhouette artist Charles Burns. And you can hire him to cut your silhouettes. He's incredibly talented. He does it in 10 to 15 minutes. So much fun.

April Callahan (31:28)

Yeah. And watching him do it is fascinating. And again, this would make a great gift. I personally have given these silhouette sessions which he will do over zoom with you to several different people for their birthdays or other gift giving occasions. So you can send a gift certificate to somebody for that. Talk about special. Very, very special.

Cassidy Zachary (31:49)

So fun. And he even got our podcast mics in there. I mean, he's incredibly talented.

April Callahan (31:55)

The last one is actually that I want to talk about in this category is actually not an etymology. It's not an etymology of a word, but more an origin story. And believe it or not, dress listeners. This is actually, if you go back and look at some of our stats and our metrics, one of our most popular episodes ever. In December of 2019, we did an episode on the history of glitter. So we are heading into the holiday season. Of course we're all going to be seeing and, or potentially wearing a ton of glitter. And you can tune into that to learn a little bit more about this symbol of glitz, glamour and celebration.

Cassidy Zachary (32:33)

Yes. That episode was so, so fun. And again, one of Those things that you just don't ever think twice about. And then when you learn about its fascinating history, I mean, it's such a fun episode. I really enjoyed that.

April Callahan (32:44)

Thanks.

Cassidy Zachary (32:44)

One of my favorite episodes that I just did this year was the Gilded Age Dudes of Fashion Part one and two. I'm not gonna go into too much detail because it just aired a couple months ago, but I mean, who knew that the word dude, One of these things that you and I, April, talked about. We use that word all the time.

April Callahan (33:01)

All the time.

Cassidy Zachary (33:02)

And who knew that it had fashion origins? So go back, check that episode out if you haven't already. It's super, super fascinating.

April Callahan (33:11)

And fashion origins and menswear specifically.

Cassidy Zachary (33:14)

Yes, exactly. Which dovetails into our next category, which is menswear, something we admittedly probably need to do more of. We don't have too many episodes, but we do have episodes, including how to Read a Suit with fashion scholar Lydia Edwards, the follow up to her international best selling book, how to Read a Dress. She's come on to discuss both of those titles. We did an episode on men in heels, A his and her story, which was an interview with Bata Shoe museum curator Elizabeth Semmelheck, which really expanded again, fashion history, because who knew that heels were worn by men in Persian horse riding cultures first for hundreds of years before they were worn by women? And finally, one of my favorite episodes, Black A Cultural History with Monica Miller, that was actually a two part series that discussed her research for her groundbreaking book, Slaves to Fashion, Black Dandyism and the Styling of Black Diasporic Identity.

April Callahan (34:09)

Yeah, well, I dialed it back quite a bit further for one of my favorite menswear episodes, Fashion history mystery number 32, A Brief History of the Codpiece, which aired on October 10, 2019. And you know, I know that we all agree on the fact that the codpiece is one of the more curious items in the history of masculine dress. And in that particular episode, we discuss its function, its necessity, and the symbolism of the codpiece. And that might also not be what you think it is. So tune into that to learn more about the codpiece.

Cassidy Zachary (34:45)

And April, one of my favorite episodes that you've ever done, and perhaps you're gonna talk about it, is the history of the tuxedo, something I touched on in my Gilded Age dude episode, but maybe something you wanna expand upon further.

April Callahan (34:56)

Yeah, sure. So New year's day of 2019, we aired the episode what the Tux? A History of the Tuxedo. And we were joined by guest Chloe Chapin for that and funnily enough, Cass, maybe not the garment itself, but the term tuxedo actually comes from a town in upstate New York that I just went hiking in a few days ago. That is the origin of the term tuxedo. The short dinner jacket, of course, is now known as formal dress, but it was informal formal dress initially. So great. Again. Holiday season we're going to be seeing a lot of people wearing tuxedos. Perhaps you yourself will be wearing one this holiday season and you can learn more about the origins of the tuxedo from that episode in 2019.

Cassidy Zachary (35:44)

Girl, winter is so last season and now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes.

April Callahan (35:51)

Your algorithm is feeding you card offs your head thirsty for the sun on

Cassidy Zachary (35:55)

your shoulders that perfect hang on the patio sundress.

April Callahan (35:59)

Those sandals you can wear all day and all night.

Cassidy Zachary (36:01)

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Apply. Learn more at Go Amex Graphite. Another theme that became very clear in our repertoire is the coverage of specific events and eras in fashion. So we've covered topics like Vanderbilt House Parties. We've covered the EBONY Fashion Fair from the French Revolution to World War I and suffragist era style to 1960s paper and space age fashions. The 1990s dress listeners we have you covered April what are some of your favorite episodes from this category?

April Callahan (37:12)

I would have to say, in terms of an era, one of the things that immediately comes to mind when I think of the 19th century specifically is all of the etiquette of the era. The and that our episode that we aired in February of 2020 called Call Me the Perils of 19th Century Etiquette was probably one of my favorite episodes to write because I got to open up all these 19th century etiquette manuals and kind of really, really dig in there to the specifics of calling culture which is, of course, the paying and receiving of visits. And those are governed by incredibly complex codes of introductions and repaying visits and how well you knew somebody dictated your actual behavior. So, yeah. And I just wanna say if anybody out there is so inspired and wants to learn more about 19th century etiquette, a lot of these original etiquette books have been digitized at this point and are available online on sources like HathiTrust or the Internet Archive. So just know that they are out there for you to look at for free.

Cassidy Zachary (38:17)

Yes. That was a super fun episode. And we got to. I love the episodes where we get to imagine what it would have been like to live at a certain period. And so we learned how to call on our neighbors and friends, something we don't necessarily etiquette that's long lost in the 21st century. So one of my favorite, I guess, holidays, which counts as an event maybe, is Halloween. We love our annual Halloween episode. It's one of those things that we do every year. And so those have been some of my favorite episodes because they're just fun. And then one of our most popular episodes, and one that is still continues to resonate, you still hear about this book all the time, is our interview, When Fashion Kills, an interview with Dr. Allison Matthews, David, who wrote this incredible book about killer fashion. So when fashion is not always great, you know, so you're learning about arsenic poisoning. And was it Isadora Duncan whose scarf got caught in the wheels of her car and strangled her? So it's a little morbid, but it's fascinating nonetheless.

April Callahan (39:22)

And the title of that book is Fashion Victims.

Cassidy Zachary (39:25)

Oh, thank you very much. It is not called When Fashion Kills. It's called When Fashion Victims. And I think it accompanied an exhibition. And then last year, I did costuming horror with my dear friend, costume designer Lisa Jensen, who came on to talk about her work on the very first Nightmare on Elm Street. So, again, one of my favorite types of episodes that we do, if not an era and an event specifically.

April Callahan (39:51)

Yeah. And it seems like the 1970s have been big on my list in terms of these era episodes. One of the episodes that we did in season one was, of course, with the inimitable Robin Gavan, who we were so lucky to have join us. So far the only Pulitzer Prize winner that's joined us on the show, but we hope to have more. And she joined us to discuss her book on the legendary fashion face off between French haute couturiers and American designers later became dubbed the Battle of Versailles. And that is now I believe over 50 years old or it's coming up on its 50th anniversary quite quickly, if not already. So yeah, you can tune in more about that. I think there's actually yet another documentary being made about the Battle of Versailles because there is one out already. It's called Versailles 73, if you want to check that out in video form. And of course there's also Robin's book.

Cassidy Zachary (40:47)

So of course I mentioned costume designer Lisa Jensen. I, of course, as our listeners probably know and remember because I've talked about a million times, I had a career in costume design as a supervisor and designer for, well, almost 15 years. I don't really do it much anymore, but it's one of my very favorite subjects. I did a fashion and film two part episode series. I actually promised you at the end of that that I would do a part three because I only got up to 1970. And you know, again, one of those times where Cassidy's research just gets out of hand. We've also done multiple episodes on the history of Oscar fashion. And then of course I've interviewed a lot of costume designers. So I mentioned Lisa Jensen. Also for this year's Halloween episode, I interviewed Mary Vogt, who is the costume designer for Batman Returns and Hocus Pocus, the original. We also had Anna, Mary, Scott Robbins on, who is the costume designer behind Downton Abbey, which is of course one of my and April's favorite shows, as is Bridgerton. We had costume designer Alan Mirajnik on to talk about her work because she has this epic career starting out as a fashion designer. And then she did, you know, some of her very first films were like Basic Instinct. And then one of my, the most fun episodes I did was with costume designer Mona May, who did the designs of many films including Clueless. So check those out.

April Callahan (42:11)

Which might be your favorite film of all time. If not, it's right up.

Cassidy Zachary (42:16)

Yeah, I mean, that was one of my reasons I got into fashion was because of Clueless. Let's be honest, I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.

April Callahan (42:26)

Also not alone in the sentiment that I think quite a few of us shares an affection for the James Bond movies and, well, perhaps a little sexist and misogynist today. One of the things that I loved under this category was speaking with Dr. Monica Germana about Bond girl style and how they used fashion and style as a tool of empowerment for their characters. That was great. That episode aired on November 5, 2019. But I have to say, when it comes to the episodes that that are near and dear to my heart. Two of the most precious to me are the Game of Thrones episodes. Subtitle what to Wear When Winter Is Coming I learned something. So I'm a huge first of all, I'm a huge Game of Thrones fan. And yes, I am watching House of Dragons, but I was thrilled to death when a catalog came out focusing just on the costumes from Game of Thrones. So we broke down the Game of Thrones costumes in two part episodes. We talk about their backstories, the backstories of the characters, how they interrelate, and all of the symbolism that was lovingly stitched into the Game of Thrones costumes. Those episodes aired in April of 2020,

Cassidy Zachary (43:42)

so something I am a huge fan of but do not actually have any experience with much experience. I mean, I did used to make costumes I guess in college. But it's historical costuming and not to be confused with film costuming, this is a community of makers that exist all around the world in various different forms. You know, that's really an umbrella term that covers a lot of different ways that people today experience in historical costuming and wearing historical styles. And we've done numerous episodes on this very topic with historical costumers. In October 12th and 14th of last year, we interviewed Cynthia Secchi on Deconstructing corset History and myths. And Cynthia, of course, is the owner of the world's premier corset making company, Red Threaded. She's also an incredibly talented maker. And then one of the first episodes we did for season two on March 5th of 2019 was historical costuming with American Duchess. That was super fascinating. They have two wonderful books that you can buy. Again, great gifts actually for the historical costumer or someone who wants to start historical costuming about how to make 18th century dress and then also how to make 18th century beauty products. And then on February 2, 2021, I did a two part episode, one of my first episodes for season four, historical costuming in the time of COVID with Dr. Christine Miller of Sewsteen. So she's a doctor, a mother, and a historical costumer who makes the most exquisite historical reincarnations. I don't know how she does it all, but she's amazing. And those are really fascinating episodes.

April Callahan (45:26)

Yes. Well, and I'm glad you mentioned the American Duchess ladies cast because they were actually the duo that introduced me to the next cast dress guest that I want to mention. And also now a dear friend. And that's Chaney McKnight. Chanie is a living historian and educator and she joined us in a two part episode to talk about the profession of historic interpretation and specifically about her research and work interpreting periods of enslavement in the US during the 18th and 19th century. And in the in that two part episode with Chaney, we also talk about African diasporic dress and fashion in the US at that time and particularly women's head wraps. So. Hey Chaney, I didn't tell I was going to mention you on the podcast, but this will shout out let's get drink sipped.

Cassidy Zachary (46:19)

If you go to these episodes descriptions, you can get links to everyone we talk about. We really try to provide links to everyone's work and Chaney's work is just incredible. She has a really popular YouTube series as well as Instagram.

April Callahan (46:32)

Not your mama's History.

Cassidy Zachary (46:34)

Absolutely.

April Callahan (46:35)

Chaney has parlayed her love of this topic or her interest in this topic into her profession. And this is something that we do endeavor to do on the show is to display the plethora of types of jobs that are available to people who are interested in fashion, fashion history, you know, from fashion and costume design to publicists to fashion photographers, curators, collections managers, conservators, and even dress detectives. And we say this, there's been two dress detectives on our show. Now, Amber Butchart, who we mentioned earlier, joined us in May of 2019 to chat about her work in the realm of forensics as a fashion historian. And she has been working with authorities in the uk helping them solve crimes essentially, or research some of their evidence by way of being a fashion historian and talk about a fashion history career application outside of the museum world or design studios. That's a really great one.

Cassidy Zachary (47:39)

Yeah, absolutely. And she's on TV a lot too. She's one of those few fashion historians, although I guess there's more and more of us who've really parlayed their expertise into becoming the face of fashion history. Raisa Britannia, another past dress guest and friend of yours, April, has also done the same very same thing. So, you know, there's just so many different avenues to explore fashion history. And we've actually one of the questions we get a lot, a lot, a lot on the show is how to become a fashion historian. And that is actually our very first ever fashion history mystery. It's how to become a fashion historian. April and I talk about our own experience. We both of course went to the Fit Masters Museum and Fashion Museum and Textile Studies program. But there's a lot of different avenues and ways. We actually of course had pioneering scholar Valerie Steele on the show, one of a handful of women who really carved this field out for us. She has this fabulous essay that she wrote called the F word. And it's about not that F word, but the F word of fashion, because fashion was really a dirty word in academia. She writes about how her Harvard professor laughed at her basically, or just dismissed her for wanting to study the cultural history of the corset. I mean, who's laughing now? She's obviously an internationally known fashion scholar. She heads one of the world's greatest fashion collections at the Fashion Institute and of course is someone April is lucky enough to interact with through your work. So those are some of my favorite episodes. We interviewed her sorry About Pink, her exhibition on the color pink, and we've interviewed a number of fashion curators. We've also interviewed one of the world's leading fashion conservators, Sarah Scotturo, who's been a guest numerous times on the show. She came on when she was the head conservator at the Costume Institute at the Met to talk about her and her team's work on the Heavenly Bodies exhibition. And then she came on recently at her new job at the Cleveland Museum of Art as the head conservator there to talk about not only how to be a conservator and what the ins and outs are of being a conservator and what her day to day job looks like. And we of course delved into the Marilyn Monroe Kim Kardashian controversy with her. And then one of her most popular episodes, April is Chicago's Fashionable Past with Jessica Pusher, who is a colleague from grad school of mine and collections manager at the Chicago History Museum. So there are so many fabulous jobs in our field, so little time to discuss them all. And you will just have to start listening to our past episodes to learn more.

April Callahan (50:11)

Yes. And that does it for us today. Dress listeners. May you reflect on your favorite episodes of Dress and maybe pop us over an email to tell us all about it. Next time you get dressed, make sure

Cassidy Zachary (50:22)

you're signed up for our newsletter. If you're not already, head to our website@dress history.com sign up for that Newsletter Newsletter where April and I once a month share things from April's armoire and Cassidy's closet, things we're working on, behind the scenes, interesting research we're doing, our objects we're studying. But that's also where you become the first to know about our online classes and in person tours. And that includes my what Women Wore to the Revolution 1850s-1920s live online course coming your way in June and then also our seven day fashion history fueled adventure in the world Fashion Capital Paris coming your way August 30th through September 6th.

April Callahan (51:01)

Some of you have already signed up but we do still have more slots and we are very excited I will be there now on more or less a permanent basis. I have new Parisian treasures up my sleeve for this year's tour. So yeah, again you can head over to dresshistory.com to look at that full itinerary and we'll be up to this year starting August 30th and then into the very first week of September.

Cassidy Zachary (51:27)

And we get so many questions from all of you about our recommendations for fashion history books. So if you're interested you can always find a link in our show notes to our Bookshop Bookshelf. So that address is bookshop.org shop dressed and there you can find over 150 of our favorite fashion history titles.

April Callahan (51:44)

Do you love dress baby? But you would like to skip the ads? You can now sign up for ad free listening on our Dressed History Patreon. We are also excited to now be part of the Airwave Network and their premium ad free history subscription Airwave History plus, which is available on Apple Podcast. This subscription brings dress and also 27 other popular history podcasts all together ad free for just $5.99 per month. More information on Patreon and Airwave is available at the link in our bio. Thank you as always for tuning in and more dressed coming your way very soon. The History of Fashion is a production of dressed media.

Cassidy Zachary (52:26)

For over 100 years, the world has been captivated by Hollywood.

April Callahan (52:31)

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where stars are born. But just beneath the stardust lie a million more fascinating stories that when sewn together, form an incredible history. The Secret History of Hollywood. Available now wherever you get podcasts.