Behind the Seams of “Wicked for Good” with Costume Designer Paul Tazewell

Summary

---

Behind the Seams of “Wicked for Good” with Costume Designer Paul Tazewell

Dressed: The History of Fashion
Air Date: November 19, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Dressed: The History of Fashion takes listeners behind the scenes of “Wicked for Good”—the much-anticipated sequel to Wicked—with celebrated costume designer, Paul Tazewell. Hosts April Callahan and Cassidy Zachary welcome Tazewell back to the show for an in-depth look at his award-winning approach to costume design, collaboration, and world-building for one of today’s largest cinematic spectacles. Tazewell provides a masterclass in how costumes shape story and character, delving into process, craftsmanship, and the remarkable team effort required to bring Oz to life.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Oscar Win & Recognition ([05:28]–[06:45])

• Opening with Warm Congratulations: April and Cassidy congratulate Paul Tazewell on his Oscar win for Wicked.
  • Quote: “It has been a really remarkable year, like none other that I’ve had… the energy of the award… is what I carry with me from day to day... I do it to share it.” (Paul Tazewell, 05:40–06:05)
• On Receiving the Oscar: Paul reflects on the power of industry acknowledgment and the lasting sense of validation it brings.

2. Costume as World-Building & Character Evolution ([06:45]–[11:05])

• Costume Sets the Scene: Costumes are integral to narrative, visually cueing character and plot progression before any dialogue.
  • Quote: “Costume design can build a world before a word is spoken.” (April Callahan, 06:45)
• Elphaba and Glinda's Journey: Describes the continuity and transformation of the principal characters, reflecting story and emotion via color and silhouette.
  • Elphaba’s costume evolves from her “best dress” to a repurposed, tattered ensemble—symbolizing her growth and activism.
  • Glinda’s look embodies her role as a pawn of political power: opulent, contained, yet symbolic of entrapment.

3. Reinventing the Iconic Oz Characters ([11:05]–[14:35])

• Tackling Dorothy, the Scarecrow, Tin Man, and Cowardly Lion:
  • The challenge of honoring longstanding archetypes while weaving them into a new visual narrative.
  • Paul traces inspiration back to L. Frank Baum’s original illustrations and details the transition of minor characters (e.g. Bach becoming Tin Man).
  • Quote: “You have to make sense of how did they get to where they are... I’m trying to manipulate silhouettes from real time into the fantasy character.” (Paul Tazewell, 11:34–13:50)

4. The Design Process: Research, Collaboration & Vision ([16:20]–[22:17])

• Process Unveiled:
  • It begins by reading the script repeatedly and meeting with the director to align visions.
  • Amasses wide-ranging visual imagery for inspiration—nature, abstract patterns, iconic art—and distills them into mood/lookbooks.
  • Collaboration is key: Working closely with production design, cinematography, other departments, and the director (Jon M. Chu).
  • Design development for Wicked spanned 9–12 months prior to preproduction.
  • Quote: “It’s a collective of sensibilities that creates what the world is… that also makes it exciting as well.” (Paul Tazewell, 21:48)

5. Scale & Sophistication: Thousands of Costumes, Tonal Shifts ([22:17]–[24:00])

• Thousands of Costumes: Both films (Parts 1 & 2) required a staggering output, reflecting the maturation of core characters and increased emotional stakes.
  • Quote: “They are in the thousands…I’ve seen it written.” (Paul Tazewell, 22:23)
• Emotional Realism Within Fantasy: Costumes enable the audience to believe and engage with the very human stakes of the characters.

6. The Team of Artisans & Specialized Craftsmanship ([27:03]–[39:27])

• Highlighting Key Workshops:
  • Tailoring Team Led by Ruth Monji: Engineering original silhouettes (like the origami sleeve for the Emerald City Gatekeeper), achieving remarkable feats of construction.
    • Quote: “She brings an understanding of silhouette and engineering within the world of tailoring that then takes what I had asked her to do... to the next level.” (Paul Tazewell, 27:40)
  • Collaborative Creative Energy: The workshop was a “Charlie and the Chocolate Factory space,” where craftspeople (tailors, drapers, embroiderers, milliners, 3D print specialists, etc.) could inspire and inform each other.
  • Hand Embroidery for Glinda’s Bubble Dress: Multi-layered, intricate work performed on completed garments for seamless effect, balancing artistry with technical excellence.
    • Quote: “It was this multi-layered froth of goodness... one of the most spectacular fairy princess dresses that I’ve ever seen.” (Paul Tazewell, 33:44)
  • Machine Embroidery by Tuan: Crafted custom striped uniforms for Shiz students, each uniquely modular and carefully engineered for cohesive group identity yet individual expression.

7. Integration and World-Consistency ([30:55], [37:55])

• Departments Interacting for Consistency:
  • Each specialty team’s work was visible and influential to others, resulting in a uniform yet intricate visual language for the world of Oz.
  • Elphaba and Glinda Rooms: Siloed for specialization but interconnected for creative exchange.

8. Attention to Visual Details and Camera Collaboration ([34:18])

• Lighting as a Design Element:
  • Costume teams did both on-set and in-shop lighting/camera tests to ensure colors, textures, and silhouettes translated on film as intended—especially critical for black-on-black and highly embellished costumes.

9. Leadership, Supervision, and Credit ([42:56]–[46:07])

• The Full Costume Department:
  • Highlights the vital roles of the costume supervisor (Dulcie Scott), principal assistants, and background team—handling scheduling, fittings, budgeting, background character consistency, and interfacing with vendors and craftspeople.
  • Rental, refashioning, and total creative oversight: principal and background teams worked in tandem, with Tazewell making final decisions for the cohesive vision.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Energy in the Costume Shop:

  • “That created its own kind of energy, this amazing Charlie and the Chocolate Factory space. It fed off each other, and that was really great.” (Paul Tazewell, 31:26)

• On Being Part of Oz’s History:

  • “To have the opportunity to have my work out there and be seen globally and to be acknowledged for it as well—all of it is a privilege... to now be a part of the history and culture of the Wizard of Oz. It’s pretty amazing.” (Paul Tazewell, 46:38–47:16)

• On Team Collaboration:

  • “Every bead, every thread, every detail tells a story of craft, collaboration, and design excellence.” (April Callahan quoting Tazewell, 14:42)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:28] — Paul Tazewell reflects on his Oscar win
• [07:57] — Evolution of Elphaba and Glinda’s costumes
• [11:05] — Approaching classic Oz characters (Dorothy, Scarecrow, Tin Man, Lion)
• [16:20] — Paul’s step-by-step design process, from script to workshop
• [22:17] — Total number of costumes and the demands of dual-film production
• [27:04] — Team structure and Ruth Monji’s tailoring leadership
• [32:45] — The embroidery team and the construction of Glinda’s bubble dress
• [36:01] — The modular, inclusive design of the Shiz uniforms
• [38:18] — Role and achievements of machine embroiderer Tuan
• [42:56] — Role of the costume supervisor and assistant teams
• [46:38] — Paul on the privilege and meaning of contributing to Oz’s legacy

---

Additional Insights

• Paul’s Commitment to Transparency:
  • Highlights his frequent, candid social media “behind the seams” posts—something he encourages more designers to do to spotlight team artistry and craft.
• The Village of Makers:
  • Up to 150 craftspeople, including specialists for everything from embroidery to 3D printing, worked under one roof—plus outside cobblers for custom shoe production.
• The Importance of Emotional Resonance:
  • The visual language of costumes—color, patterns, materials—serves to make characters’ emotional journeys legible and relatable to audiences within a fantasy framework.

---

Conclusion

Paul Tazewell's return to Dressed offers unparalleled insight into the art and logistics of blockbuster costume design. This episode stands as an inspiring testament to meticulous research, creative risk-taking, and the power of collaborative craft. Tazewell explores not just Ozian fantasy, but the deeply human realities—labor, vision, teamwork—that underscore every inch of fabric seen on screen.

---

For images, updates, and extended behind-the-scenes content, follow @PaulTazewell and @dressed_podcast on Instagram, and visit hellodressedhistory.com.

Transcript

[April Callahan]

Dress listeners, the holidays are approaching and for many of us that can mean international travel abroad. So whether you are visiting friends and family or treating yourself to a much deserved vacation, we are excited to introduce you to Saily. Saily is an ESIM service app brought to you by the creators of NordVPN and it is your newest travel buddy.

[Cassidy Zachary]

It sure is.

And I speak from experience because I've actually been using Saily for some time now, long before they signed up to sponsor the show. And using a Saily ESIM provides an Internet connection wherever you travel, saves you money on roaming fees, and with our global and regional data plans for more than 200 destinations, Saily has you covered.

[April Callahan]

All you need to do now is download the app. Any Saily ESIM needs to be installed only once so users don't have to install a new ESIM for each country. Saily ESIM plans are compatible for iOS or Android devices and work with all smartphones supporting ESIM technology and with 24.

[Cassidy Zachary]

7 support. What are you waiting for? Download the Saily app in your App Store. Use Code Dress at Checkout to get 15% off your first purchase. That's code dressed at checkout to get 15% off your first Purchase. Stay connected with Saile.

[April Callahan]

Dressed listeners. You've heard me say it time and time again on the show that while I love studying all things beauty and makeup history, I'm not in fact the biggest wearer of makeup and I've always preferred a more natural look. So there's really only a couple of core products that you are going to find in my makeup bag and that recently has come to include Jones Rhodes Miracle Balm which multitasks as a blush, highlighter, lip tint and so much more. I've really been curious about their quote unquote no makeup makeup take on beauty for some time and let's just say now I am hooked.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Modern day makeup that's clean, strategic and multifunctional for effortless routines for a limited time. Our listeners are getting a free cool gloss on their first purchase, which is when they use the Code Dressed at checkout. Just head over to Jonesroadbeauty.com and use the code Dressed at checkout. After you purchase they will ask you where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them our show sent you.

[April Callahan]

The History of Fashion is a production of dressed media. With over 8 billion people in the world, we all have one thing in common. Every day we all get dressed.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Welcome to Dressed the History of Fashion, a podcast that explores the who what when of why we wear. We are friends, fashion historians and your hosts, April Callahan and Cassidy Zachary.

[April Callahan]

Dress listeners. April Happy Wicked for Good hits theaters week. To all who celebrate. Is anyone as excited as me to see part two of this smash hit film? Apparently someone is. April, that was texting you today, but I wonder about our listeners.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Yes, I did receive some text messages about this earlier today and you know who you are.

[April Callahan]

And if you listen to Friday's episodes, dress listeners, then you already got a hint at the subject matter of today's episode as well as the guest. Because today we are welcoming back the now Oscar award winning costume designer podcast, Paul Tazewell. And he of course joined us last year to discuss the first Wicked film and now he is back to take us behind the scenes of the highly anticipated sequel, Wicked for Good.

[Cassidy Zachary]

You will remember from our 2024 interview that Paul is an award winning Broadway and Hollywood costume designer who is responsible for designing some of the most important visual and groundbreaking masterpieces of our time. And while he did not design the costumes for the original Broadway version of Wicked, that was Susan Hilfer. He has designed more than a few productions that you definitely have heard of, including revivals of classics like Guys and Dolls, Jesus Christ Superstar, as well as most recently Death Becomes her, which is based on one of Cass and I's all time favorite movies, the 1992 cult classic of the same name, Death Becomes Her.

[April Callahan]

Yeah, and I actually got to see this show earlier this year on Broadway and absolutely loved it. I mean Paul is such a wizard. Have you with color. He's so incredibly talented at what he does. And then of course, most famously, Paul designed just a little earth shattering production known as Hamilton for which he took home a Tony, an award for which he has been nominated nine times. And of course Paul's talents are not confined to groundbreaking stage productions. He also designed the 2019 film Harriet about Harriet Tubman. He designed Steven Spielberg's west side story in 2021 where he got his first Oscar nomination but not his last because earlier this year Paul actually took home the Oscar for best costume design for Wicked. And my guess is he will be taking home another because these costumes are masterpieces of storytelling design and as we will learn today, also craftsmanship.

[Cassidy Zachary]

We are so excited to go behind the scenes of this incredible production with Paul today. Paul, thank you for joining us again on Dressed.

[April Callahan]

Paul, welcome back to Dressed. It's such a pleasure to have you back with me today.

[Paul Tazewell]

It's so good to be here. Thank you.

[April Callahan]

Actually a lot has happened since you last joined us and I have to start by offering you a very heartfelt congratulations on your Oscar win.

[Paul Tazewell]

Wow. Thank you so much. Yeah, it has been a really remarkable year, like none other that I've had. I'm so very grateful. Thank you.

[April Callahan]

So well deserved, I have to say. Not at all a surprise for many of us and maybe a little bit of a surprise for you. I was going back and watching it. I don't think anyone's ever quite prepared perhaps, for that moment. What was that like for you when they called your name?

[Paul Tazewell]

Wow. I mean, you know, it's just extraordinary to get up on stage and to receive the acknowledgement, all of the validation of a whole audience of peers and other people that are in the entertainment industry. You lived for those moments, I think, and the award is a beautiful award to receive. I think that it is the energy of the award, that is what I live with and that's what I carry with me from day to day, you know, is that people actually enjoy my work, you know, and that's why I do it. I do it to share it.

[April Callahan]

And I don't know if you've seen it, but there's already a Reddit thread that is prophesizing your second win for Wicked for Good. Reddit threads are. They can go either way, right? So I was a little skeptical when I tapped into it, but every single comment was so positive. Just having watched the trailers, everyone just saying, Paul's getting this second Oscar. Wholeheartedly agree. I also have not yet seen the film, but your team has given me a sneak peek of the costumes. You've also been very generously giving us behind the scenes sneak peeks at the costumes. And just like with the first film, they really are works of art in and of themselves and such an incredibly central and integral part of what makes this movie so powerful. And you actually recently wrote on a post, you said costume design can build a world before a word is spoken. And that is absolutely true. They really tell the story of the film, of the characters, progressions, relationships, without having to say a single word. And I'd love if you could just give us a sneak peek of what viewer can expect from the costume world in Wicked for Good.

[Paul Tazewell]

The film opens and we are charging and we are like a fast train running down the tracks. And I think that the energy of the clothing, the costume design matches that. So you know where you left our two principal characters, Elphaba and Glinda, at the tower of the Emerald City Palace. And then Elphaba jumps out, we go into defying gravity as she is making her escape. And that is the silhouette, the look of their last days at shiz, you know, and also those two looks are reflective of each other. They're essentially the same silhouette in their chosen color palettes. The black for Elphaba, pink for Glinda. And then they both make choices about how they're going to live the rest of their lives, what they're going to engage with, how they will move forward. And their relationship is left a bit in limbo. You don't quite know what's going to happen to their friendship. So when we pick up with that first scene, we see that Elphaba has indeed leaned into and is fully embodying this hero as an advocate of the animals. And you see see the wear and tear represented in her clothing as well. So where she had her best dress that she wore to meet the wizard at the end of Wicked Part 1, she's now in that same dress, but it has become tatters. It is a tunic and then she's taken on a pair of trousers and knee high boots and this sweeping coat that she's upcycled from her wardrobe to finish out this silhouette of the Wicked Witch of the west, basically, and how she is being seen and visualized and then vilified for just the community of Oz and how they are seeing her as this evil, wicked being. And I think that it becomes this really wonderful evolution for Elphaba in empowerment, even within the vocabulary of her clothing story. I think that it creates a very strong silhouette for her, which is really exciting. And then to contrast that with Glinda and how she's embraced being this pawn of politics, being more of a propagandist figure of good within the palace of Emerald City, and how she's being manipulated by the wizard and by Madame Morrible, although she's captured as it's almost like a bird in a cage, but this beautiful bird in a cage where she has these wonderful dresses and an amazing apartment within Emerald City. And just to see the great contrast between these two, you know, one who has moved into exile into the forest, living in a treehouse, versus this fairy princess in a way of good. And showing that reflected in the clothing, I think is really quite wonderful and exciting.

[April Callahan]

And in this film, you are for the first time going to be contending with four of the most iconic and beloved movie characters in film history. Right? We have Dorothy, we have the Cowardly lion, we have this Scarecrow and the Tin Man. Can you just give us a little bit of insight into how you approached such iconic characters. Because I'm sure there's the iconic part that you want to remain true to what people might expect, but you also have to bring it into what is really a new story in a way.

[Paul Tazewell]

Sure. That's one of the fun things about creating the costume design for both Wicked movies is being able to really lean into and manipulate what those archetypal characters are. When you've got a Dorothy, when you've got a Scarecrow, when you've got a Tin man, you have to make sense of how did they get to where they. You know, we know them as characters, as fantasy characters that we lived with for many years within the wizard of Oz and then into the book and then Wicked the musical. But figuring out the details of that story, that narrative, is what is exciting as a costume designer for me. So understanding. Here's the character who is Bach is going to transform then into the Tin Man. So how do I set up his costume visually so it bridges over into the archetypal image of the Tin man that we know for both the Tin man and the Scarecrow. My silhouettes are based on the original illustrations from the wizard of Oz book by Frank L. Baum. So it's harking back to the original source. And then within what I've created for their look, right before they transform, I'm trying to create a visual alignment between the two. So all of the silver bullion that's on Bach's, his livery uniform in the Governor's palace, all of that is then relatable to the pieces of silver and tin that come together to create his body. Also the shape of his shako, his cap, his peaked cap. That shape lends itself to then transforming into a funnel. I'm trying to manipulate the silhouettes from real time into the fantasy character. So there's a correlation in a similar fashion with Vieiro and how those visual elements relate to what he transforms into. It's really fun for me just figuring out what is, you know, the materiality of the costume, how will it be fashioned? How can we make use of the embroidery and create a crossover in the products that we're manipulating? How do we go from gold bullion on a uniform to straw banding on on a scarecrow costume. So it's making all of that line up and be a part of the storytelling. You know, as. As I've said before, this is all very subtle work. Nobody is pointing to a costume or seeing a costume side by side saying, oh, this is transforming into this. It's all happening in front of our eyes and but you know, as a designer, I need to be responsible for how it does indeed relate one to the other so that it's consistent, there's a carry through, and it is indeed helping to tell the story as clearly as possible.

[April Callahan]

Which is why you won the Oscar, because you are a genius at this costume storytelling.

[Paul Tazewell]

Thank you.

[April Callahan]

You just gave us, I think, one glimpse into your thought process for how you conceive each and every one of the costum in the film. Which also just remarkable is the thought and care that goes into your design. And you recently posted, you said every bead, every thread, every detail tells a story of craft collaboration and design excellence. And that is absolutely true. And we know this because you've been taking us behind the scenes and into your ateliers and into the costume shops, introducing us to your remarkable team and bringing us into, quote unquote, the artistry behind the magic of the Wicked for good costumes. Which is thank you for that because I wish more costume designers would do that. For someone like me especially, it's just such a treat to see what happens behind the scenes because you have a village, maybe a small town of incredibly talented artisans, mastercrafts people, specialty makers who are putting in thousands of hours of work into creating your costumes. And that's actually where I was hoping to focus today, is taking us behind the scenes and learning more about your process and the process of your team. Because it's wonderful for us to all get to go and sit down and enjoy these wonderful movies, but sometimes they are years and years in the making and it's really fascinating to learn about that process. So maybe we could just start with learning a little bit more about your design process, what that looks like when you get that script, and how you start researching and conceiving those designs before you pass them on to your team.

[Paul Tazewell]

Sure. Thank you for asking the question and just opening up because it has been, as you've seen from what I've posted and how I talk about the process, sharing how the sausage is made is a huge priority for me because it shines a light on the work that we do, focusing and providing space to, I guess, elevate what our craft is, what our artistry is, and make it essential to how we experience telling stories. I thank you for that. I start with the text. When I'm engaged to design a theater piece or film, I ask for the script and I read the script multiple times just to get the essence of what the story is and also the flavor of the storytelling. And this is so that I have a personal connection to it in how I'm experiencing the story being told. And then I'll have a meeting with the director and I'll ask a lot of questions. And some of those questions are very leading so that I can get into the brain of the director and understand what their point of view is and how they want to tell the story. Because I will enter into it, having read it multiple times. Because I'm a visual person, I start to create images in my head of what this world is going to be. But I then need to align what that vision is with the director's vision so that stays consistent. So I might ask questions that are about atmosphere. I might ask questions that are about color and texture. Whether our world is industrial or it's very organic. I'm trying to figure out qualities that resonate for the director so that I can get on board with the point of view of the director. After those meetings, after an early meeting, talking through both the story and specific characters, then I'll go away and I'll start to pull together images. Lots of images, lots of research. I spend a lot of time doing research. If it happens to be reflective, if the story happens to be reflective of a specific period, then I'll look at all of that imagery. So that grounds me in an era or a year, if I am thinking about qualities, especially if it's a musical or if it's a ballet, if it's a fantasy film, I start to look at more abstract art, related images, say, paintings, photographs that can be abstracted. Whether it's nature that's more organic or just other creative expression that somehow relates visually to the story. Because I'm relating to imagery in a visceral way as I'm thinking about how the story might unfold. Because I'm trying to put together for myself one of those qualities that will inform what the overall world is going to be. If we speak specifically about Wicked. Some of those early images, if I look back at my lookbook, they were images of kaleidoscopes. They were Fibonacci spirals, they were staircases, they were tessellation. You know, the tessellation is where he might have a bird and a fish, and that geometric combination as a pattern works itself together. So there was something about that that was interesting as an idea, as it relates to the world of Oz. Bubbles. I was looking at things that were very specific. Bubbles and butterflies and butterfly wings and mushrooms I've talked about before. There are all kinds of Images that I'm pulling together and then I have to edit those and make sense of those because at first it just is free floating imagery that somehow fills an emotional space as it relates to the story, but it isn't defined as far as where it will actually live. And then I take those images and I slot them into characters and I make sense of what's specific about the characters. And then I lay it all out and find more research to be supportive of how we will actually visualize each character. And then I go into drawing and painting of the sketches that are very specific somewhere in there. If I'm not taking a drawing or a sketch all the way to fruition, I'm doing a quick sketch and I'm handing it over to a concept artist or an illustrator and they might do a riff on what that idea is so that I can see clear what the overall idea might be. And then I can offer that up to the director as well. So there's a lot of back and forth in this process. If we're talking about Wicked again, I was designing for probably about nine months to a year before I actually went into our pre production period in London, which was when we started building things for the two films. Once we started there, we were working on both films at the same time and needing to manage how we were creating all those films together. That gives you a little bit of insight into how the ideas are formulated. It's informed by what the production designer is doing, say Nathan Crowley, who was working on it, Alice Brooks, who is the cinematographer. It comes with a lot of input from other people, other places, and it has to acknowledge what their points of view are as well. It's a collective of sensibilities that creates what the world is and I think that also makes it exciting as well. And Jon and Chu for Wicked, the Wicked films, he is at the top of that when he is the ultimate editor in creating what works for the way that he wants to tell the story and what doesn't quite work for the Wicked, he wants to tell the story. And then we're continuing to refine what that is, design wise.

[April Callahan]

And how many costumes did you design for Wicked for good? Do you have a ballpark figure?

[Paul Tazewell]

Oh, I know that they are in the thousands. I don't know. I don't have that figure off the top of my head, but I know that they are in the thousands because I've seen it written.

[April Callahan]

Wow.

[Paul Tazewell]

Like I said, we were working on both films at the same time.

[April Callahan]

Right.

[Paul Tazewell]

And there's a tonal shift From Wicked Part 1 to Wicked for Good, just because they are becoming more mature women as well, and their emotions are maturing with them and the stakes are higher because the danger is higher. And I think that all evolves before our eyes as we're experiencing the story and as we're seeing how they live out the consequences of the choices that they have made in that first film. It all plays itself out. And what is so wonderful about both Wicked films, but especially in Wicked for Good, is they're very real emotions that are being played out. It happens to be in the capsule of a fantasy. But indeed, those relationships, the interactions between Elphaba and Glinda and Fiyero and the relationship of Bach and Nessarose, those are real emotional scenes that we relate to as an audience. And so it's imperative to create then a world that helps to define itself, that can be consistent within itself, so that we believe for those moments, for those two hours that we're watching the film, we believe that this actually exists and so that we can actually feel what's going on emotionally for each of the characters.

[April Callahan]

Yeah, and you do that beautifully in a number of ways. One of the ways in which you do that is color. Another is patterning. All of these ways that kind of help to underscore, not in an in your face kind of way, but to underscore to the audience that people belong to certain worlds.

[Cassidy Zachary]

As someone who has struggled their entire life with unreliable sleep patterns, Cass, as you know, I am a big fan of Calm, the number one app for sleep and meditation. Their library of sleep stories, sleep meditations and calming music help me drift off to a restful sleep quickly and naturally whenever I need it.

[April Callahan]

And that's not all Calm offers. Their guided meditations and expert led talks can help you reset and relax when you're feeling overwhelmed, stressed, or anxious. With over 2 million 5 star reviews, calm is your partner. And living mindfully Calm your mind.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Change your life. Calm has an exclusive offer just for listeners of our show. Get 40% off a Calm premium subscription at calm.com dressed. This is an amazing value.

[April Callahan]

Go to C-A-L-M.com dressed for 40% off. Unlimited access to Calm's entire library. Calm.com dressed and tell Calm you heard about them from me.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Dress listeners. For many of you, there may be a recent chill in the air that tells us holiday season is just around the corner. And one of the best gifts you can give is comfort done sustainably, whether it's something for your closet or your home. Quince works directly with ethical top tier factories so they can skip the middleman and offer prices 50% less than similar brands.

[April Callahan]

This winter you'll find members of my family layered up in Quince's amazing offerings of knit and outerwear. I'm loving Leo and my matching cashmere.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Beanies and I might just be snuggled up in Quince's linen or eucalyptus sheets, not to mention their amazing Turkish cotton bath towels.

[April Callahan]

Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished and last from Quint, perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself. Go to quint.com dressed for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com dressed to get free shipping and three 65 day returns. Quince.com dressed.

[April Callahan]

When you say thousands of costumes, I think it's just remarkable because you're designing those thousands of costumes. But as you just spoke to, not only did they have to interact seamlessly right with one another so they blend into the storytelling, they also have to engage with the set. So it's a huge undertaking and you are supported by a huge team that I want to turn our attention to next.

[Paul Tazewell]

Yes.

[April Callahan]

And it's this team that is made up of drapers, cutters, embroiderers, cobblers, tailors, assistants, any number of highly skilled specialty craftspeople who are then tasked with translating those thousands of designs into reality. And we of course can't possibly talk about all of them today, but I would like to highlight some of these specialties and some of these specialty makers, starting with the Male Principal costumes tailoring team that you've been highlighting on your Instagram, which is headed by Ruth Monji. What did Ruth and her team bring to the costumes that we will see on screen?

[Paul Tazewell]

It was so exciting to work with Ruth because she's an amazing tailor. If it was just a suit, a modern suit, it would be beautifully tailored by her team. She also brings an understanding of silhouette and engineering within the world of tailoring that then takes what I had asked her to do. It takes it to the next level, engineering wise. Some of the things are really remarkable. The gatekeeper, the Emerald City Gatekeeper. It was played by Stephen Schwartz actually in Wicked Part 1. But there's an origami sleeve that is an asymmetrical coat. This sleeve is, it's super extreme as far as the silhouette. And then it has this spiraling eye, origami eye that's on the side of it, similar to the wizard's cravat or his ascot. It has that kind of spiraling origami.

[April Callahan]

Yeah, I thought of it in terms of rose petals.

[Paul Tazewell]

Exactly. It's very similar. So then to interpret that through the language of tailorings is really remarkable. And it was out of a lot of R and D and putting together different kinds of techniques for how we might approach different things. That was some of the early work that she did. I also want to say, just thinking about our workshop, what we were able to put together with our team of costume makers. We had about 70 full time makers of many different sorts. There were dressmakers, there were tailors, as you were speaking of Ruth, the milliners, their hand embroiderers and beaters, machine embroiderers, knitters, hand and machine weavers. There was belt makers and armorers. And then there was a 3D printing and digital magic shop as well. So 70 was the normal team. And then we would grow to probably 150 to jobbed out pieces as well. And also all of our shoes were produced custom in other shops. It was a village indeed of people making all of this come together. And again, that was something that was really exciting because just going back to what her portion of the shop created, because we had everyone under the same roof, we could lean into and see what everybody else was doing. And then it helped to then create a vocabulary that was consistent throughout. So how Ruth was interpreting texture and origami and dealing with pattern, dealing with silhouette, that was informing what we were doing in the shop that was creating Elphaba. So everybody was talking, creatively talking to each other, so that they were staying on the same page. And so that we could create a world that was all consistent, that was an Ozzie and World indeed. And having the ability to really lean into all of the R and D that they were doing was so exciting for me. Definitely. Because, you know, to pose the point of view is one thing, but then to see it delivered by these amazing and talented people was just another level, really.

[April Callahan]

And I know this is a professional environment, but were there a lot of like audible gasp moments happening? Because I can imagine if, if so and so's working, if Elphaba is in this workshop and the tailoring's in this workshop, and then they're coming to see what the other person's doing. I mean, like that sleeve you just described is a work of art. It is a work of art. And to be around that much creative energy all under one place with people who are at the height of their craft, what an inspiration, Absolutely.

[Paul Tazewell]

I think that you're spot on with what you're saying because you weren't always being exposed to everything that everyone was doing until you made a point of going into somebody else's room. We had an Elphaba room. We had a Glinda room. We had a men's tailoring room that included Fierro, Bach the wizard. There were a couple of other men that we tailored out of that room for them to go into each other's spaces and see what everybody was doing. 1. It was very important as far as creating a consistent world, but also just to get the inspiration of what other creative people were making became really exciting. And then that created its own kind of energy of this amazing Charlie and the chocolate factory space. It fed off of each other, and that was really great.

[April Callahan]

Yeah, it's a magical, wicked world in and of itself. And you recently wrote that every seam, every detail is intentional. Obviously a consistent theme of this conversation and of your costume. And that's certainly the case with the meticulous, glittering embroidery of Glinda's bubble dress, which is, again, truly a work of art. Can you tell us about the embroidery team whose hands, you write, shaped the sparkle and depth that make Glinda's look so iconic?

[Paul Tazewell]

Wow. That team was amazing. And it was also they had to work with, you know, what I'm used to in the world of musicals and beading on Broadway shows. Oftentimes they're laid out and they're framed out as flat pieces so that you're beading a piece in a flat pattern and then those pieces are put together as a bodice, let's say. The way that they approached many of Linda's pieces were that they were already created and then they were beading a finished bodice. And I'd never seen that approach. It made for a very seamless application, which was really beautiful. The way that the swirls all worked together and how that was reflective of all the foiling on the overskirt that was done in a sparkle pattern created this kind of dappling of spirals around the organza skirt. This is the blue and lavender bubble dress. And then there was another layer that laid on top that had their hand beading on all that as well. It was this multi layered froth of goodness, if you will, that made for one of the most spectacular fairy princess dresses that I've ever seen. It's because of the multiple layers and how it moves all the different layers of in painting and the ombre that works with the Foiling and then all crystallized with glass, crystal beads. You know, all that together really makes for a really magical dress.

[April Callahan]

You even wrote in your post about how they have to consider everything from pattern and texture to how lighting, both real and artificial, interacts with the dress, which I thought was really interesting. So were they doing lighting tests in the shop, or did that happen on camera with camera tests, or when were they doing that?

[Paul Tazewell]

Both. Both, because we were camera testing as much as we were allowed time. Why so? And it was always to maximize, you know, one for Alice to actually see. Oh, the garment was going to be what it was made up of as far as color, beading and crystals. Definitely. With Elphaba and all of the black on black. We had to do a lot of camera tests just so that we could see how Alice was going to capture the depth of all of that. I was doing what I could to create depth with undertones and multiple layers of fabrics. On Elvis clothes, where you might have a purple and then a lace and then some other textured fabric on top of that, all of that worked into how it is shown on film. It's a marriage of all those different ideas that really makes for the most.

[April Callahan]

Magical presentation and something that I found really fascinating. Again, I'm using your Instagram posts because they're just so informative and so, so interesting. So we can't really talk about storytelling and skill sewn into each and every scene without discussing the shiz uniforms, which you have said are simple at first glance, but they're incredibly intentional. As with everything you design and everything your team produces, every detail is thought through. Can you talk about the shiz uniforms? Because this was actually really interesting and quite unexpected from what I was expecting when I read your post.

[Paul Tazewell]

The way that was developed was how do we create a uniform that feels like it is school uniforms turned on their heads? And also to feel as inclusive as possible, like gender inclusive, honoring the difference of body shape, honoring just personality sensibility as well. So creating the look of uniform that could be modular, where you could choose, okay, I'm going to do the trouser and then the half kilt and then the short jacket or the three quarter waistcoat and the short jacket. You know, it did become very original to each of the performers or each of the students playing in shiz. But then to get all of those stripes to actually work together, it was a huge challenge. There's a stripe pattern, and then it changes. If you look closely at Wicked Part 1, you'll see that there's a standard Stripe pattern. Some of the stripes are closer than others. And then also, as you work your way down the stripe, it's most represented in the trousers. But then I think that we have them also on some of the kilts, where the stripe starts to break off and become kind of haywire. It goes into a jagged pattern. And so that's what I mean by having this student body uniform that's turned on its head. It's taking the traditional uniform and the construct of traditional uniform and making it something that's fun and delightful and it's playful in still holding them together as a group, speaking of students being in uniform, but it's always holding them together as a group, but they can still be playful and interesting in themselves.

[April Callahan]

You shared pictures of how the machine embroidery was produced by this one artisan who is focused on developing this skill. And it was just so cool to see the different pattern pieces being printed by machine and all of them sitting on one cloth that would then be cut out and pieced together. That was really cool.

[Paul Tazewell]

And that was Tuan, and he was our machine embroiderer, and he embroidered all of Elphaba's uniforms, and then he also embroidered all of Glinda's uniforms. And all of those had to be engineered in a way so that the stripes would match. When you look at Glinda's jacket or you look at Elphaba's jacket, all those pieces are very specifically lined up so that the stripes will match around her body or around either of their bodies, which is. It's a hard process. They're doing a lot of figuring out digitally so they can then load the machine with the right information. So, you know, I think that Tuan, he was overstriked by the time we finished the film because there were so many versions of the uniforms that we had to create. But he was an amazing sport and did so much more as well. He was not just doing. He was doing all kinds of projects that show themselves on the screen. Definitely.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Dress listeners. I'm sure you can all identify with getting flustered trying to find a particular photo in your phone to share with a friend or loved one. Well, frustration be gone with Skylight Frame. The easiest and sweetest way to share photos instantly with your favorite people.

[April Callahan]

I personally love my Skylight Frame because it allows me to display thousands of pictures proudly as part of my home. And it's done on a sleek HD touchscreen frame. And you can just swipe through memories. You can keep adding new photos anytime and from anywhere. It's a great gift. It's private, it's personal, and it keeps the people you care about close, even when you're apart.

[Cassidy Zachary]

The Skylight frame's quick one minute setup is easy for all ages or tech skill levels to use. You don't need an app or a subscription. And if you aren't happy with your frame, you can return it within four months for a full refund, no questions asked. Plus, if your device experiences a covered issue within the first three years, Skylight will replace it free of charge.

[April Callahan]

Right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $20 off their 10 inch frames by going to myskylight.com go to myskylight.com dressed for $20 off your 10 inch frame. That's my S K Y L I g h t.com dressed april what's the old maxim second chances are for your closet, not your ex?

[Cassidy Zachary]

Oh, if only we had all learned that lesson a little bit sooner. Or how about the other saying nothing haunts you like the vintage you didn't buy, which is one of my favorites. And this is why Cassidy and I have both been buying and selling on the RealReal for years now.

[April Callahan]

The RealReal is the easiest and fastest way to sell with over 40 plus million members ready to shop your closet. And unlike other resale sites, everything the RealReal sells is authenticated in person by luxury and fashion experts. From Margiela tabby boots to the classic handbag from Chanel, you can get up to 90% off retail on the designer pieces you've been dreaming of.

[Cassidy Zachary]

The RealReal is the world's largest and most trusted resource for authenticated luxury resell, with thousands of new arrivals daily. No one does resale like the RealReal. And this month you can get an extra $100 site credit when you sell for the first time. Go to therealreal.comdressed to get your extra $100 therealreal.comdressed. that's therealreal.comdressed.

[April Callahan]

And again, this is just a glimpse, like the tip of the iceberg. We barely scratched the surface of all of the different costumers working within your department. You know, I am one of those people who, you know, I work in film, so I stay after to read the credits. And the costume team for Wicked 1. It's going and going and going because there's hundreds and hundreds of people who worked on this film in all these different capacities and we're focusing on the production of costumes we haven't even talked about, you know, your costume supervisor who breaks down your scripts, manages your budgets, the aged dyers the fitters who fit the thousands of costumes and then the set costumers on set while you're shooting. There's just this whole team that makes it all possible. And we're nearing the end of our time together. So I'm wondering if there's any other team members you want to highlight or. Aha. Experiences from the costume shop that you'd like to share with us before we go.

[Paul Tazewell]

Oh, wow. You mentioned Dulcie Scott, who is a costume supervisor. She is right at my right hand as head of all that is financial coming into our department. All that is crew related. And actually, I had worked in London as a theater designer. I had not worked in London as a film designer. I was leaning on Dulcie to pull together teams of people that would be appropriate for how I was hoping to approach the design of the film. It's creating enough talent in the room to be able to approach this design. So I give that up to her and keeping it moving forward from beginning to end. My team of assistants, I had two principal assistants. One that was on male principals, one that was on female principals. They oversaw managing and scheduling our fittings, fabricing any details that needed to be thought of, any accessories, how I was interfacing with the cobblers and shoemakers, the milliners. It's just always having somebody that was in charge of and could focus on specific characters, that was imperative. My scope was so spread that I needed to have that kind of wrangling so that I was always focusing on what needed to be answered as quickly as possible. Then there was one other assistant that oversaw all the background. And so he was actually in a different space. He had a full team of makers and builders as well with him. And I needed to communicate with him and keep him abreast of how the overall look of Oz was evolving so that he would understand how then the background would align with what we were doing, with all of our principles. And much of his work was taking rentals because of how many costumes that we needed to create. He was taking rentals, building partials to go with those rentals or building complete costumes and then refashioning with his fitters, refashioning those rental pieces to look Ozian, similarly to how I was talking about the Shiz uniforms, figuring out a way to turn it on its head so that it looked interesting and familiar, but a completely different silhouette. So he was very creative in pulling those and proposing different looks. I had the ability to go in and choose and edit what works, what didn't work, what I wanted to Perfect. Just how all of that was going to evolve as well. So I always had a last say in everything that was being created and everything that was going to end up on set for a specific scene. But it took that kind of interface with each of those assistants in order to make any of it happen. Because they were then working with everyone else in the shop.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. Because there's only one Paul Tazewell. So you build up this really great team that you trust to implement your vision. And they all did. You have an Oscar, you have this beautiful film and the next one coming out hitting theaters very shortly. We are all so excited.

[Paul Tazewell]

Yeah. It's wicked for good.

[April Callahan]

Yes. And in closing, just looking back on this experience, because I know it's been many, many years working on both films, what does it mean to you to have worked on this production?

[Paul Tazewell]

Oh, it is a huge gift. A huge gift of creativity. To have the opportunity to have my work out there and be seen globally and to be acknowledged for it as well. All of it is a privilege. And I am so grateful to John M. Chu and Universal for inviting me on for the ride of the two Wicked films and then also to now be a part of the history and culture of the wizard of Oz. It's pretty amazing.

[April Callahan]

Paul, thank you so much for your costumes for this film. Thank you so much for being here with us today and taking us behind the scenes of your incredible work.

[Paul Tazewell]

Oh, well, it was delightful to spend more time with you and have this conversation. Thank you so much.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Paul, thank you so much for coming back to Dressed and for introducing us to your amazing team of makers.

[April Callahan]

And I cannot stress enough Dressed listeners how much work, talent, skill goes into a production of this monumental size. And Paul is just so incredibly generous with taking us all into his process, which he does repeatedly and daily on his social media, where he not only highlights his design inspirations, but the work of his amazing team. So you will not want to miss his IG posts at his Instagram account, which is at Paul Tazewell. That's T A Z E W E L L or our Instagram content this week. So you can follow along with this week's social media content, of course, as always, on at Dressed Underscore podcast on Instagram or at Dress Podcast without the Underscore on Facebook. And you can also find that at the hashtag dressed 570-April. With the holidays just around the corner, we have a little bit of magic of our own up our finely tailored sleeves. Do you care to share with our listeners what you have been working on.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Happy to.

So one, I am working on a very fun episode that is a rekindling of our listeners what's in your closet request and that will be coming your way next week. And also we have classes. Both of us have classes that we just posted in our newsletter a few days ago. And I have on offer now friends and two part class and they're going to be 90 minute classes or so on the history of the House of Schiaparelli. And this is basically in anticipation of an exhibition that's going to be launched next year in 2026 on Schiaparelli at the Victoria and Albert Museum. So if you want to learn more about the house itself, its history, its founder, El Elsa, and then its entire legacy. But more importantly, I think one of the things that I'm really, really excited to do in this class is to break down the iconography of the house as Elsa established it and then also how Daniel Roseberry has picked that back up and running with it today. And the Schiaparelli is one of those heritage houses that I feel like is doing the good work. Our regular listeners will know that Cass and I have big opinions on how some of these heritage house revivals have gone in the past.

[April Callahan]

Cough. Balenciaga. Cough.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Yeah, but, but this one, this one's working. And that is what my intention is to do, is to give you guys all the insights to understand what Daniel is doing now.

And also, let's just say Daniel is.

Also an alum of fit, just like Cassidy and I.

[April Callahan]

Yes, yes. I will for one be joining you dress listeners in that class because I'm super excited to learn from April's expertise on of your all time favorite designers. I mean, she is just one of the most innovative designers in the history of fashion, especially since she was starting as early as the 1920s.

[Cassidy Zachary]

1927 is when she established her business. First collections, 1928. So we're also approaching almost 100 year history of the House.

[April Callahan]

Oh yeah. And speaking of another Victoria and Albert museum exhibition inspired class dress listeners, I am bringing you my long promised what Women Wore to the Revolution Part three. But it's actually not part three because it's part one going back prior.

[Cassidy Zachary]

It's a prequel.

[April Callahan]

It's a prequel to my what Women Wore series. So this class is actually from the 1770s to the 1840s and we'll be looking at the evolution and revolution of women's fashion through the lens of three of history's most iconic women. And I'm Talking, of course, about Marie Antoinette starting there in the 1770s, following her through the French Revolution. And then we will be switching to England, where we will be looking at fashion through the lens of one of history's most beloved authors, Jane Austen, and her real life experience with fashion as well as the fashion that is explored throughout her books. And then we'll be ending with Queen Victoria, which might surprise some of you, because I think, April, when most people think of Queen Victoria, we have this very regal yet quite staunch image of her. She was in mourning for her husband her whole life. She didn't die till 1901. But I think a lot of people forget that when she came to the throne in 1837, I think she was something like 18 years old. Yeah, yeah. And she was very fresh faced and she was quite fashionable. So we'll be exploring the evolution and revolution of women's fashion through those three women. And I hope you will join me and April dress listeners in January for both of these classes.

[Cassidy Zachary]

So my class is going to be on Sundays, the first two weeks of January. I think it's the 4th and the 11th. And then Cass's class, which is obviously a separate subject, is going to pick right up on Sundays thereafter. And one of the reasons why we put these in January is because we have gift cards available if anybody would like to give or receive these as a holiday gift.

[April Callahan]

Absolutely. And of course, just one of the many things we actually have up our sleeves for you next year. We are already very much in conversation about our Paris 2026 tour. Dressless tours. Yes. July. Looking at July 2026. So working on getting all those detailed now. We're also hoping to launch that registration for that in January of next year. But if you would like to be on our first to know list to grab your spot, you can send us an [e-mail] to get on the first in a list.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Yes, yes.

And also subscribe to our newsletter, which is usually where we put that out initially around the same time.

[April Callahan]

Ish.

[Cassidy Zachary]

And also, dress listeners, as many of you probably already are aware, we have.

Our fashion history day tours of New.

York city coming up December 3rd through the 5th. So day one, which is entirely at fault fit and day three, which is at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, are sold out. But we do have a few spots left on day two, which is our brand new offering, which is going to be, first of all, we're going to be traveling to New York Historical and seeing a fashion exhibition that they have up there. And then after that for the very first time ever we're actually being invited in by the Metropolitan Opera. Cass, do you want to give us a little bit of details about we're going to get up to there?

[April Callahan]

Yeah, I mean there is so many things we're going to be doing there. And this is addressed first. Never been there before. And we are going to start by seeing their exhibition. They have an exhibition up called behind the Seams which is all about the history of costume design at this prestigious opera house. And then we are going to be going behind the Seams at the opera it's itself and into their working costume shops. Working costume shops where you will get to see costume production in process happening before your eyes. We'll have to be very quiet and very respectful, but we will be there like flies on the wall. Super exciting. And if that is not enough, then we are going to be meeting the artist in residence, costume designer Clint Ramos and get to hear from him. So very excited for this once in a lifetime experience. Who knows if and when we'll be offering this again. So we hope that you will join us and you of course will find all of this information at our website, hellodressedhistory.com okay, that does it for us today dress listeners, until next time, may you consider the fashion and fantasy of the clothes you wear. Next time you get dressed, please head.

[Cassidy Zachary]

To Dressed Underscore podcast on Instagram or Rest podcast without the Underscore on Facebook to check out the visual content associated with each week's episodes.

[April Callahan]

And remember, we always love hearing from you so if you'd like to write to us, you can do [e-mail] DressedHistory.com is also our website where you can sign up for our monthly newsletter, our in person tours and online fashion history courses and you can check out whatever else we have up our finely tailored sleeves.

[Cassidy Zachary]

We get so many questions from you all about our recommendations for fashion history books. So if you are interested you can always find a link in our show notes to our Bookshop Bookshelf. So that address is bookshop.org shop dressed and there you can find over 150 of our favorite fashion history titles.

[April Callahan]

And do you love Dressed but want to skip the ads? You can now sign up for any ad free listening with any tier on our Dressed History Patreon.

[Cassidy Zachary]

We are also excited to now be.

Part of the Airwave Network and their.

Premium ad free History subscription Airwave History plus available on Apple Podcasts. The subscription brings dressed and also 27 other popular history podcasts ad free for just $5.99 per month. More information on Patreon and Airwave is available at the link link in our bio.

[April Callahan]

Thank you as always for tuning in and more Dressed coming your way very soon. Dressed the History of Fashion is a production of Dressed Media.

[Liberty Mutual Voice Actor]

Limu Emu and Doug Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Paul Tazewell]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Liberty Mutual Voice Actor]

Cut the camera. They see us.

[April Callahan]

Only pay for what you need at libertymutual. Com.

[Paul Tazewell]

Savings Ferry Unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company Affiliates Excludes Massachusetts.