DRESSED: THE HISTORY OF FASHION

Catherine Dior, an Interview with Justine Picardie, Part II (Dressed Classic)

Original Release: August 29, 2025
Hosts: April Callahan, Cassidy Zachary
Guest: Justine Picardie (author of Miss Dior: A Story of Courage and Couture)

EPISODE OVERVIEW

The episode delves into the extraordinary life of Catherine Dior, sister to the celebrated fashion designer Christian Dior. Picking up after WWII’s outbreak and Catherine’s involvement with the French Resistance, the conversation explores her acts of courage, devastating wartime experiences, and enduring influence on the House of Dior—culminating in a powerful reflection on resilience, dignity, and hope in the aftermath of trauma.

KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. Catherine Dior’s Wartime Resistance

• Background: Catherine and her brother Christian grew up close, eventually moving to Paris. Christian began his fashion career, while Catherine, at just 24, started her journey in the French Resistance.
• First Acts of Resistance:
  • Catherine’s initial resistance was as simple—and as dangerous—as procuring a radio to listen to General de Gaulle’s Free French broadcasts (05:26).
  • She met Hervé de Charbonnerie during this act, who became both her partner and the person who recruited her into the Resistance network F2.
• Duties & Danger:
  • She cycled long distances as a courier, gathered intelligence on Nazi troop movements, and typed reports to send to London and Polish intelligence (05:26–08:00).
  • Catherine’s daily work put her at immense risk; "She was running a risk... every minute of every hour of every day for months and then years on end." – Justine Picardie (08:25)
• Betrayal and Imprisonment:
  • Shelter from Christian: Her brother hid her and hosted Resistance meetings, risking his own life (08:45).
  • After betrayal, Catherine was arrested, tortured (refusing to betray anyone), and deported as part of “extermination through labor.”
    • "She saved the life of her best friend, Liliane... her brother Christian, her lover, Hervé, his family and everybody else in the network." – Justine Picardie (09:25)

2. Acts of Resistance in Nazi Camps

• Courage and Humanity:
  • Catherine maintained her spirit by small acts of sabotage and by teaching a “V for Victory” sign to younger inmates (10:45).
  • Notable Quote: "Catherine was the captain of her own soul… even though her body had been punished and dehumanized, her spirit remained her own." – Justine Picardie quoting a fellow survivor (11:07)
• Defiance through Style:
  • Catherine and fellow prisoners unraveled rags to create chic turbans, using fashion and style as resistance, signaling humanity and dignity (11:35).
  • Notable Quote: "Being chic was a way of saying to the Nazis, you cannot take away our human spirit." – Justine Picardie (12:20)

3. Christian Dior’s Hope and “Magical Thinking”

• The Agony of Not Knowing:
  • Christian Dior suffered through the uncertainty of Catherine's fate ("the agony of not knowing"), turning to a clairvoyant for answers (14:39).
  • “Nacht und Nebel” (“Night and Fog”) was a Nazi regime term for disappearing prisoners so their families never knew their fate (14:39).
• Tarot’s Importance in Dior’s World:
  • Tarot readings predicting Catherine’s survival gave Christian hope and influenced his later use of such symbols in fashion (15:00–16:21).
  • Notable Quote: "I never liked the phrase superstition... magical thinking is a better way to describe it." – Justine Picardie (14:56)

4. Catherine’s Enduring Influence on Dior

• Personal Tribute in Fashion:
  • Catherine inspired Christian’s designs—"in every single one of Christian Dior's collections... he made something for Catherine" (17:05).
  • Maria Grazia Chiuri, current Dior designer, continues this practice; e.g., the “Caro bag” (Catherine’s Resistance code name) and the “Tree of Life” shirt inspired by her (18:56).
  • Catherine’s spirit of resilience is threaded throughout Dior’s legacy.
  • "Truly, the spirit of Catherine is still alive and well at the House of Dior today, just as Catherine as a real woman was so important to Christian’s conception of femininity." – Justine Picardie (19:55)
• Symbolism of Sartorial Dignity:
  • Christian’s lovingly designed garments restored Catherine’s sense of dignity post-camp, acting as therapeutic protection.
  • Notable Description: "He describes them as architectural pieces, but I think... the soft padding as a way of giving a protection to Catherine who returns completely emaciated from Germany." – Justine Picardie (22:34)
  • Ms. Dior perfume embodies "a brother’s tender love for a sister, not a kind of super sensualized, sexy perfume… a very tender scent." (21:55)

5. Aftermath: Memory, Justice, and Legacy

• Postwar Challenges & Justice:
  • Catherine returned to France and her brother, determined to rebuild; justice for victims and survivors was rare (28:19).
  • Only 31 of the 3,500 female Ravensbrück guards were sentenced—a horrifying statistic reflecting postwar reality (28:52).
  • Notable Quote: “How can anyone imagine an enchanting dream after a time of such madness and horror? And yet Christian Dior did, and he was inspired by his sister to find beauty after so much pain.” – Justine Picardie (29:03–29:17)
• The Message of Hope:
  • Justine hopes listeners find hope, resilience, and the courage to rebuild beauty after darkness in Catherine’s story.
  • "She made a good life for herself despite all her suffering and trauma. And that, to me, is truly inspiring. So I hope that people feel hope and feel inspired and feel reassured that joy and beauty and pleasure is still possible after darkness, and that an understanding of lightness and the light becomes all the more miraculous when you've looked into darkness." – Justine Picardie (24:15–27:11)

MEMORABLE QUOTES (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• On resistance and survival:
  • "She was running a risk... every minute of every hour of every day for months and then years on end."
    —Justine Picardie (08:25)
  • "Catherine was the captain of her own soul… even though her body had been punished and dehumanized, her spirit remained her own."
    —Justine Picardie (11:07, quoting a fellow survivor)
• On dignity through style:
  • "Being chic was a way of saying to the Nazis, you cannot take away our human spirit."
    —Justine Picardie (12:20)
• On creative hope:
  • "I never liked the phrase superstition... magical thinking is a better way to describe it."
    —Justine Picardie (14:56)
  • "The magic of Dior, which is such a true strand, such an important part of Dior, has its roots in that really important experience of Christiane being given the hope through this tarot card reading, that Catherine is alive and will return."
    —Justine Picardie (16:21)
• On Christian’s design for Catherine:
  • "He describes them as architectural pieces, but I think... the soft padding as a way of giving a protection to Catherine who returns completely emaciated from Germany."
    —Justine Picardie (22:34)
• On hope and light after darkness:
  • "She made a good life for herself despite all her suffering and trauma. And that, to me, is truly inspiring. So I hope that people feel hope and feel inspired and feel reassured that joy and beauty and pleasure is still possible after darkness..."
    —Justine Picardie (24:15–27:11)
  • "How can anyone imagine an enchanting dream after a time of such madness and horror? And yet Christian Dior did, and he was inspired by his sister to find beauty after so much pain."
    —Justine Picardie (29:03–29:17)

KEY TIMESTAMPS

• [02:12] – Introduction to Catherine and recap of previous episode
• [05:04] – Catherine’s recruitment and activities in the French Resistance
• [08:25] – Betrayal, arrest, and survival under torture
• [10:45] – Catherine’s resistance acts and legacy inside the camps
• [12:20] – Dignity through “chic,” even in dire conditions
• [14:39] – Christian’s “agony of not knowing” and the importance of Tarot
• [17:05] – Dior’s collections: tributes to Catherine in fashion and perfume
• [21:55] – Restoration of Catherine’s dignity through fashion
• [24:15–27:11] – Closing reflections: hope, resilience, and finding light after darkness
• [28:19] – Postwar justice and ongoing resonance of Catherine’s story
• [29:03] – Final takeaway on hope and inspiration through the Diors’ lives

CONCLUSION

This episode offers a moving, in-depth portrait of Catherine Dior: a courageous resistance agent, survivor, and living inspiration for her brother’s now-legendary fashion house. Through Justine Picardie’s research and storytelling, listeners are shown how the threads of resistance, personal trauma, familial love, and creative renewal are inseparably woven into the very fabric of Dior’s legacy—and reminded that fashion, at its highest, can be both sanctuary and act of defiance.