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Dressed: The History of Fashion
Clueless at Twenty-Five, an Interview with Costume Designer Mona May (Dressed Classic)
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- [00:01]
April
Cass as you know, I had a rather big birthday recently, and while I am a makeup girly, lately I've been more into emphasizing skincare and a look that says more glow than glam. So I've become a big fan of Jones Rhodes Miracle Balm, which was created by the legendary makeup artist Bobbi Brown. And her Miracle Balm is perfect for just that little touch of color on the cheek. You can use it on your lips, you can even use it as a highlighter. It's simply one product that does it all. There's a reason why the word miracle is in its name.
- [00:35]
Doug
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- [00:57]
Cassidy
Our show sent you.
- [01:00]
Doug
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April
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Doug
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- [01:57]
April
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- [02:12]
Doug
Please enjoy one of our favorite episodes from the Dressed archive of over 500 plus shows.
- [02:24]
Cassidy
With over 7 billion people in the world, we all have one thing in common. Common every day we all get dressed.
- [02:30]
April
Welcome to Dressed the History of Fashion, a podcast where we explore the who, what, when of why we wear we are fashion historians and your hosts, April.
- [02:39]
Cassidy
Callahan and Cassidy Zachary. So, dress listeners, please accept this interruption to our regularly scheduled fashion history mystery because we are bringing you a very special interview with the costume designer behind one of the most iconic fashion films of all time. And April, as you know my personal favorite, Clueless, which just this past Tuesday, July 19th, turned 25 years old.
- [03:09]
April
Yes. And I just have to say, you guys, you all know someone who's very excited about this episode. Today we are joined by Mona May, who's prolific career in film and television spans over three decades. Clueless might be Mona's most famous film, but her work includes also Romeo and Michelle's high school reunion, Never Been Kissed, a Night at the Roxbury Haunted Mansion, and really the list just goes on and on.
- [03:39]
Cassidy
Yes. And April, dress listeners, please excuse me while I full on fangirl out because I don't even know where to start. But my admiration and awe of Mona May goes back decades and is really threefold. I have seen clueless over 100 times since it came out at least, and I can quote it from beginning to end. I know there's a lot of people who are there with me and then there's this added layer of me being a costume designer myself, but also a fashion and film lover. From Azzedine Alaia to Calvin Klein to that unforgettable yellow plaid star suit, Clueless is a fashion lover's dream and one that still resonates to this very day.
- [04:21]
April
Cass, you are not alone in your excitement for today's guest, so let's get to it. Mona, welcome to Dressed.
- [04:28]
Doug
Mona.
- [04:29]
Cassidy
We are talking to you this week in celebration of the 25th anniversary of one of the most iconic fashion flicks ever, clueless, which debuted 25 years ago this past Tuesday in which you as a costume designer played such a central part. You and your work is currently getting so much well deserved attention.
- [04:50]
Mona May
Yes, I'm really happy. I'm just, I'm just flying high on all the Clueless anniversary and yeah, it's been amazing. My Instagram is blowing up, which is so cool. It's funny because it's like people are discovering who I am in a weird way. Oh my God. The costumes or you did that and Rami and Michelle and never been kissed and wedding singer. So it's just the love is pouring and it's so nice. My numbers are jumping up and it's just really great to, you know, we as costume designers, we are behind the scenes and nobody really knows what our job really entitles I think it's hard what work goes into it and the preparation and really all the creativity that has to really come from us to create these characters from pages of the script, they really just very vaguely are described to us. And we really have to be the psychologist, like a detective, to find out who they are deeply, their psychology, where they went to school, maybe what place in life they're in right now, and where they shop, what kind of apartment they have, what's their journey right now in the film. The arc of the character too. So it's really a lot of details that goes into this that people don't really understand. I think it's kind of a mysterious job in a way.
- [05:58]
Cassidy
Oh yeah, absolutely. And you said you're making the rounds. You're all over vogue, you're all over Instagram. People are recreating their favorite clueless moments. And what does it feel like to have been part of a film that is still so much a part of pop culture? Even to this day, after two decades, it's still so fresh and so relevant and so loved.
- [06:20]
Mona May
It's incredible. It's truly. It's like a one in lifetime situation. I think that one could have that. That's something that you do out of love because you don't set up to do the best fashion film of in the universe, but you just work, do your thing. And I am a fashion designer from training. And then I got into the costume tech doorway and when I met Amy on the pilot, pilot didn't get picked up, but we creatively just connected so strongly. She loved it. I was in Europe, I grew up in Europe, so I have a different kind of point of view on fashion, more European. And that's what the film needed. So when she wrote and Clueless, she called me, she said, you are the girl and I really want you to do this. To bring something so fresh and fashion forward, something that's not on the street. Because at the time it was all grunge, was all. Everybody was wearing their like plaid and baggy pants and it was all Kurt Cobain, Nirvana, fashions on the street. So there was nothing really to go from. So everything had to be invented, taken from the runways, Paris and you know, Milan, I mean, share with Dion. They probably. Daddy flew her there and she probably had the tickets and you know, in the day and was able to pick the things that she liked. But then everything had to be translated into the high school because Amy as a director, she said, I want this world to be very youthful, very sweet, very feminine girly. And that's what we are changing from this grunge fashion forward, of course. But it had to felt high school. It had to felt they were young girls because they had to feel authentic. And I think part of the love for this film to the day, even though they were high fashion and that is amazing how fun that is. But they felt authentic that they really were beloved in the end. That you knew who Cher was and you who Dion was. And that feeling, that's like emotional feeling, I think. And that's why the film has lived so long, because it's such emotional connection that people have to this film with the fashion, with the look to kind of making you feel good. We were talking with a friend the other day, like, where are those movies? We need more of those. Never Been Kissed Ro Michelle, how to Lose a guy in 10 days. Like, all those fun movies that we just watch and feel good and it's okay. And it's a little bit of mystery and fun and I don't know. I miss those movies. I really miss those.
- [08:30]
Cassidy
Yeah. And it puts you back into a really specific time and place, too. I mean, Clueless. I am one of those people that can quote that movie from start to finish. I've seen it a hundred times. I know I'm not alone with our listeners when I say that it was literally part of my formative years as a young person and central to my own relationship with fashion. It's possible that it was one of my very first introductions to fashion and really considering that as like, this covetable entity. And I have so many questions for you, but I would love to hear a little bit more about yourself and your formative years. Did you have a clueless film or something similar growing up that brought you to fashion or a love and appreciation of clothing?
- [09:13]
Mona May
Not that I can really remember. I had very interesting upbringing. I was actually born in India, in Kolkata. My parents, my Polish dad and German mom were living there. My dad was there for five years. So during the time I was born there, I lived there till I was three. So I think that also had a really big impact on me on color, because I have incredible love for color. And I think that definitely wasn't from Poland, where I moved after, which is much more gray. And at the time it was communist. Not a super happy place. So I think that being born and like, maybe the first things that I saw in my life were just incredible color of India. The yellow, the reds, the pinks, the blues, the jewelry kind of this incredible. The greenery that there's it's very plush there with nature and plants and flowers. Then moving to Poland and leaving Poland. When 1981 happened, it was martial law. We got out because my mom was German and then I was living in Germany. Berlin, which was really incredible at the time, was a closed city. Very artsy, very edgy. I went to school there, then I did some schooling in Paris and Milan. So from early age, really I was like into fashion. I was the girl that was drawing the princess dresses and 20 of them and had a whole wall of like collection. I told my mom what to wear at 5 years old and reorganized her closet and made comments to everybody what they should do. So that was really something that was innate in me. It was something that I really, I think was born with in a way, somehow that interest, that love. And then I just went with it. I went to art school and paint and I'm into textile and all that stuff. And fashion was really just such a natural thing for me to do. And then I was in Europe, then via New York, I came to la. Ended up going to Fashion Institute here. Loved LA for some reason, I think maybe reminded me more of India and the colors and the foliage, the bougainvillas and I don't know, I just felt super feeling at home here. And when I was in school, I met friends from ucla, USC here, film schools. And they were like, you in fashion would help us. We're doing these films for our school assignments. And I was like, okay, cool. Anything fun to do, creative. And I a bug immediately. It was just so much fun to, you know, it was fashion, but it was beyond. It was bringing something so interesting to creating the characters from the page and figuring the psychology, like I said before, who they are and what they've been, where they going and not having a lot of money, so having to be very resourceful on those kind of movies, actors, closets or whatever, thrift stores. And I had a lot of fun. I really just. That was my first introduction and I was just like, this is cool. Yeah, it was. Came to the back door. And I think all of my upbringing kind of being worldly, you know, I laugh at this, but now the term of like global globalization and global. Everybody uses it. But then back then we didn't have that. But I was the first girl to brought that, I think, to the film, to the fashion. You know, I took the stuff from the runways and there wasn't computers, so there was no style dot com. I had to big collectioni books and cut things out and make the Collages and really figure out what from the future, from the runways, we can incorporate into the film that can be filtered through the eyes of the girls. That is appropriate and right and fun and colorful with a very specific color palette. Because it was all fun and colorful. Again, opposed the grudge that was happening at the time. So I think the kind of global point of view. Also this film brought something so fresh and different.
- [12:49]
Cassidy
And I think it's really interesting too, because I just learned this, that Clueless was your big break into film. Before that, you'd been doing pilots. I think you met Amy Heckerling, the director, on a pilot, and you guys just connected. And it's so cool too, because she has an eye for fashion. And it's so very clear by the script that she wrote, in which fashion is literally a character. I think Vogue just wrote this article about you and your designs and I love it so much because it says the most memorable character in the film is the costume design. And I completely agree with that. I do love Cher and Dionne and Ty, but the costume design is what's really stayed with us to this day because it still feels so relevant and so covetable. Can you talk a little bit more about how you and Amy collaborated to create this kind of fashion centered world? It really was this way of life for these young women.
- [13:43]
Mona May
Completely, completely. And that was the focus of everything. How do they look at life? They look at life through clothes. Everything is about the clothes. And from the beginning, outfit, when you see them in the first scene with the yellow Dolce Gabbana suit and the black and white plaid suit that I designed for Dion and their hats and their backpacks, it was just endless. And working with somebody like Amy is incredible because it's somebody who understands fashion, loves fashion, wrote about fashion, wants everything to be fashion. And that is our like the creative. I mean, it's so much fun to do that with someone that gets it. Because a lot of times directors don't understand fashion. Fashion is secondary in a film. It's not like you said the character. And to be up front everywhere where you see it. You think of Alicia having 60 changes, then you have beyond 45 changes. The boys and the cliques in the schools. Every extra that came in the morning at 5am was dressed by us because they didn't have the clothes. I created everything and I had to also create it in two months, eight weeks of prep with not a big budget. It was movie. It was about $25 million. So that's incredible amount of work. To make it happen. And also I didn't have the budget to make everything to copy this stuff that's on the runways. I had to be super inventive how I make that happen. I was able to get some of the Alaia and the Dolce and the things. But then I had to go to the mall and figure out what's in the mall already that I can create in this future. Then I can go to the thrift store and mix it up. That was also one of the very interesting things, I think in the film that was so fresh because at the time there was no mixture of high and low. The way that we dress now, where we have the Balenciaga bag and the ripped jeans and then we have the expensive leather jacket that's $3,000 and then we wear it with flip flops. At the time, it really was like high fashion. Then you had the mall kids, then you had the grunge, hippie, whatever. And then maybe you have some kind of stylish thrift store kids. But it didn't really cross. So what I also did, and it was kind of mother of invention and also something very fresh that I met mix those. So on Dion, you have a vinyl skirt that kind of could be a rave. And then you have the leopard jacket and then you have the 50s purse and then you have the knee highs. And that's Amy. And that's the process of working with somebody who is in the fittings, who really every day we would come together with a little tear sheets from a magazine and it would be the same. Oh my God, look at this. Egging me on about the hats. My big hat wearer myself, and she knew that and she did how much I loved hats. And I think hat is such an important part if you're really pulling all the stops to have a hat. And she was game for everything.
- [16:25]
Cassidy
Yeah, yeah. And it really shows how inventive you guys are in that incredible film.
- [16:34]
Doug
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- [16:54]
April
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Doug
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Cassidy
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- [17:31]
April
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- [17:53]
Cassidy
April.
- [17:53]
Doug
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- [17:59]
April
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- [18:16]
Doug
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- [18:38]
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- [19:08]
Cassidy
It'S interesting too, because I think there's a lot of misconception that a costume designer like literally designs and constructs every single piece of clothing that goes on a film. But so much of it is like you said, being inventive and being like having this eye and being able to put all of these people. It's really an ensemble cast that you're designing for 60 changes on cher. That's incredible by the way, but you did such an incredible job designing for this ensemble cast. And one of my favorite scenes and I just watched this film of course, but is the when they're playing tennis and you have the row of girls all in, quote unquote, uniform. It's like a black, gray, and white variation, but they're all wearing something different. And it's all fashion forward. They all look fabulous. Is that something you did on the fly or was it pre fits? How did you do this?
- [20:00]
Mona May
Pre fit? Of course we prefit. It's again, everything in the film came from the authenticity of everything. We looked at the gym. What do girls wear? Black and white. Okay, so let's go with the black and white. But how do we again, take that to another level?
- [20:13]
Cassidy
Right?
- [20:13]
Mona May
How do we make it fun? And Cher would be herself and her little spaghetti strap over the white T shirt. And of course, you have Dion with her tuxedo shirt over a mesh see through sleeves. And then with the matching beeper. And then Cher, of course, had her water bottle or Chanel water bottle that we invented, we made. Then you have our little fashion victim girl who is in her little, like, almost a wrestler outfit. It's like old dating suit, 1920s bathing suit. Yeah. It's again, having fun, too. Me and Emmy. I think when you love something, it's fun. And that's what also shows in the film. We just had a blast. It will be like, oh, my God, let's do this on her. Okay, she needs to have the bracelet or she needs to have o. This is not enough. Okay, Take this away. It's too much. You know, I mean, it's just every moment was like that. But going back to again, like everything was coming from that heart. Authentic heart. Same with the plaids. White plaids. Plaids. High school or school, Catholic school, plaid skirt. Very quintessential uniform that you have. But what would Cher do with this? Take it to another level. So again, all this stuff, always we were grounding everything in reality. So it never felt like they were just models running around in the high heels and being snooty, and they just. It was so real for who they were. And I think that's a very also important thing for the costume designer to always think of that what is real for the character. Sometimes you have to put your own taste onto the side and really concentrate who these people are on screen, who the characters are. I think it can make or break the film. Like sometimes you see in comedies where the clothes are so crazy that it just takes over the actor.
- [21:51]
Cassidy
Distracting.
- [21:52]
Mona May
Yeah, distracting. And that's a very fine line. I've done a lot of comedies, too. Never been Kiss and Romy and Michelle and Wedding Singer and Night of the Roxbury. So it's like. I think I have a really good hand with that. It's. What is it that is not too much or not enough? It's such a fine line. It's a tight line to walk. And sometimes you really don't find that till you have the fittings.
- [22:15]
Cassidy
Yeah, yeah. And working with the actor, too, sometimes.
- [22:18]
Mona May
Can help, working with actors, because it really is something that you can imagine, like in your visual material and your boards and everything. And then once you're in the room with an actor, it's another story. It's truly something where you, like, the magic happens. The clothes on the actor's body, with their attitude and who they are and how they want to play the character, that's when everything gels. Those moments are, to me, like, one of the most awesome moments in the career, like being with Alicia and putting the yellow suit on after trying so many different things and going, oh, this is it. This is the yellow. Wow. I didn't even think that the yellow would have this kind of energy, like a ray of sunshine, like how it makes you feel even looking at it. Blue was great. Red was too much. Like she's trying too hard. Blue just didn't pop. Even though it looked beautiful on her, she put that yellow suit on in the fitting, and me and Emmy and everybody just looked like, oh, this is it. So those are the moments where it's really, you know, it's process. And I think a lot of people think it's like pointing at something and you put it on and it's perfect. Oh, my God.
- [23:20]
Cassidy
For sure. Yeah.
- [23:22]
Mona May
Far from the truth. So many. I mean, for 60 changes is hours and hours of fittings with Alicia. And, you know her the time being, we talk about it with her a lot. She even left me a message the other day. She's. You know what I say? Where I say to you that I just didn't understand the clothes then and it's now I do, and I give all the clothes away. And I'm so sorry, because she was just an activist. She was a young girl running around with the dog, saving animals. She was vegan already in the 90s, which wasn't so popular and who she was and that she had to step into the fitting and learn and really put the clothes on and learn what designer's clothes are. And they binding. Yes. And they are fun. Yes. And they colorful. Yes. So it's such a great decision, I think, in the fittings, when you work with actors, it's phenomenal. It's One of my favorite part of my job, to really just get in there.
- [24:11]
Cassidy
Yeah. And then the styling, too, because that iconic suit, of course, is what the computer program and the film, that now incredibly famous computer program that no one's replicated.
- [24:23]
Mona May
No one can believe it. 2020. And no one has freaking replicated. Crazy.
- [24:28]
Cassidy
I have to tell you, when I saw this movie, I tried to recreate that on my computer in like 1996. I tried to draw. I'm not kidding you, I tried to draw all of my clothes into a word doc. It didn't work, obviously.
- [24:41]
Mona May
That's so cool. Oh, my God, it was just so.
- [24:45]
Cassidy
Cool and mind blowing to be like, I want that. I want to be able to pick and choose my wardrobe before I put it on. And then it pairs with those, like, knee high stockings with those Mary Jane heels. And then her and Dion have these matching. I never even realized this until the other day, but they have a matching safety pen chain.
- [25:05]
Mona May
Yes. And that's very much a classic thing. That's very Scottish. That's very kind of a tartan thing. This is really a little throwback to history. And when I was a young girl in Europe, I had those safety pins in my tartan skirts. And that's what I wanted to add to it too. Just again, it's high fashion. You want to do something that's really unique. And to me, always, when I think of working and doing, designing, it's. How can I make the audience be interested? What is that? Oh, this is so cool. It's like fresh. It's different, it's new. That's always on my mind. That's how I think of life, too. I'm always looking for new things. What can inspire me, what's fun and. And how can I can translate it through my work. That's amazing because that really is, I think, the most fun. And that's why I think, again, there's a lot of exuberance in my work. I think there's a lot of happiness in my work. When you look at my movies, I think you can tell that they are my movies. You can tell. It's just always, I mean, house Bunny, Enchanted, Never Been Kissed, like Romy and Michelle. You think of these, like, girly movies that are empowering. There's always some kind of transformation to something better, to something like more soulful, who you are.
- [26:11]
Cassidy
Yeah, absolutely. And I do want to ask you about Romeo and Michelle in a minute. But first, I want to conclude our conversation about Clueless, because Clueless and we've done A two part episode on fashion and film and kind of this intersection of fashion and film. It's always had a really tight relationship since the beginning because fashion is such a force. Right. And but it's the. I think I read in one interview you were talking about how Karl Lagerfeld was inspired by the gold chain cell phone holder that you had Cher wearing when she's going to hit tennis balls. This film had a profound influence on fashion. Not just in the 90s, but to this very day. Fashion designers still reference your work. And I'd love to hear a little bit more about the concept of fashion in the film because it's really the bane of a costume designer's existence to design contemporary film and put something that's fashionable when you're shooting on an actress or actor and then when the film comes out, it's gone, it's not fashionable anymore. So how did you go about. Were you both inspired by current fashion but also you had to create fashion like fashion. You had to be like fashion forecasting completely.
- [27:18]
Mona May
This film is so unique because I think you're not only creating characters that are who they are, but also you're bringing something to the screen that doesn't exist. And you have to really go far to Europe and six months ahead or a year ahead to really bring something fresh, completely different that is in the. On the street. So that was really unique, I think. And not many films really have done that since then. I think when you talk about fashion and film in the sense of like the characters, what they wearing, it can date them. I think it's a very important thing and which I always try to avoid. Like I don't really use certain trends. Like I never would use the jeans that have those big wash things in the front, those like when we had them. I don't know what year that was or certain things because I think I lived in Europe and of course grew up all over the world. I have a different point of view. So I don't go for the trends. It doesn't interest me so much as what is the bigger picture and how does that translate into something that's timeless and fun. And to me fit is really important. So some of the trend stuff is not really that great. Fit the giant sleeves, you look like a nun or whatever that's now or the giant flowers or something. To me it's distracting to the character. So I really try to be again authentic to the character and try to almost translate everything that is out the trends into something that is maybe classic but not in the boring sense or something that's timeless, it can transcend and it's a harder task. It's much easier to just get something of direct and put it on an actor. It's way easier. And I think a lot of people don't have time or don't want to go the extra mile. And that's sometimes maybe even asked of them to do, which I think maybe it serves its purpose for the moment, but it doesn't have the longevity. So that I think I was very lucky to maybe be who I am in a way and how I see the world. So that's my point of view and how I translate that. But I think it's always incredible the connection between film and fashion. Look at Travilla, who was like the guy who dressed Marilyn Monroe and he did the white dress.
- [29:27]
Cassidy
Yeah.
- [29:28]
Mona May
I mean look at that. Look at Marlene Dietrich and how she influenced or Audrey Hepburn, the little black dress or the pantsuit. It's really to me incredible to be able to have that impact. That film can have that impact.
- [29:41]
Cassidy
Yeah. And the Cher yellow suit is just as iconic, I would argue, as the Marilyn Monroe white dress. It is still to this. Yeah. And it will continue to be this point of reference for people for years to come. I posted this on my account recently and all of the comments from people, people on Instagram about just. I just showed this movie to my kid and she's watched it three times now. It's like people are reconnecting their kids to the film for generations to come that are going to. Are still going to be just as inspired as I was as an 11 year old watching Cher get dressed.
- [30:17]
Mona May
That is amazing to me. Truly, that is the most amazing thing. Because when I meet women all over the world and when they find out I'm clueless and they could be 45, it could be 50 years old, or they could be 16. Young girls and when they lose their shit, basically they just go, oh my God, I just can't believe it. You did my favorite film. Oh my God. It's like. It just. I hear the stories where they wear what. How old they were and they first saw the movie. You know how they couldn't get the over the knee stockings. One was telling me that their father bought her the white Jeep.
- [30:46]
Cassidy
Wow.
- [30:48]
Mona May
So much fun.
- [30:50]
Cassidy
Yeah. And just such a gift that you've given us too. And now that I've met you and talked to you about it, the joy that you obviously have for your profession and what you do, like you said, it completely translated to this film, which was obviously a project of love and we're all so incredibly lucky that it came out 25 years ago. Dress listeners we cannot believe it either.
- [31:15]
Doug
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Doug
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- [32:08]
Cassidy
This is an amazing value.
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April
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Doug
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April
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Doug
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April
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- [33:41]
Cassidy
I have one more question about Clueless and then I'm going to switch to Romy before I let you go. But I think a lot of people forget that Clueless is based on Jane Austen's Emma that was written in 1815 and something I noticed. A connection I made recently is that Cher wears all these Empire style dresses, those high waisted styles, styles. It's almost like this homage to the Empire lines of the early 19th century. And I just was curious if that was like sheer coincidence or something that you intentionally did.
- [34:08]
Mona May
It was intentional. Very subtle and intentional. I wanted to definitely pay homage. I love that story. It's so beautiful. And I think the femininity too of that time, which I could actually help to bring back with a little bit of cup sleeve with Empire ways and also the so feminine. I think it's also quintessentially something that, that any girl almost can wear. It hides a lot of things. Hides a lot of imperfections of your tummy, of your hip. So again, talking about fit is so important and how that also had the impact on the film. So I think that was something that I could bring secretly for people like you to notice. But also it was very appropriate for who she was. And not only stylistically in the way of the Empire ways, but like how something like that, how girly it is, how great it is for girls to maybe be exposed to that kind of shape again to use that in their own wardrobe. Because that's my main goal, to not only want to inspire, but I want to give something like clues and I want to help girls to be able to look in the morning, go, you know what? I'm going to try something new. This is really cool. I saw that on this movie or I saw that on the actress and let me try that. Because it's all about like I talked about the fit. Anything that we even had coming into the fitting room, be it Dolce Gabbana suit or be $0.99 store finding everything was fit. So it was like couture fit on every piece of clothing that you saw in a movie. And that's also very different. That's also something like that a lot of costume designer maybe don't do. But to me that's my signature. When I. When you look at other movies to the girls look great. Look at House Bunny, how many girls I had to wear and how different shapes I had to use for each of their different bodies. So to me that's really the other part that I really get into the nitty gritty of. I think that also is inspiring. I really feel, I love that, that I get. I talk about that a lot with women that I meet about this film. So it's super fun.
- [36:07]
Cassidy
Yeah. Yeah. And I can't let you go today. I'm gonna have one more question without discussing another iconic fashion film because you've Done many honestly. But Romy and Michelle again. Romy and Michelle's High School Reunion. Again, one of those very formative fashion films for me that was like, wow, this is a lifestyle. This is a world unto itself. And the difference between of course, Sharon Dionne and Romeo and Michelle is that they really do make their clothes in the film. And they are creatives and it is a part of their identity and their expression that they are themselves are creating from scratch. So I was just hoping you could talk a little bit about that because did you actually design and make a lot of their clothes?
- [36:45]
Mona May
Oh my God. So many of their clothes were made. Actually what was fun about this movie, a little different to Clue is that there are dots. They were adult girls and they were making their clothes. So I could go a little further with it as we were really trying to keep clueless. Very kind of young and youthful. We could go out here and go a little sexier and a little wilder. And we could really expand on all this getting out there fashion of making stuff. And chainmail dress over her vinyl things, the boas, a lot of textures, color. And if you really look at again this film, it's like a fashion journey. So you're really looking at each character in their own journey, what they do. Like Lisa, the more feminine, you know, always like in the end having that pink dress for her reunion when she's wearing the suit that's she supposedly did the post its it's very feminine with a low neckline as Mira is very masculine. So that that kind of play on color palette for them as well. Where Mira was the bedazzled bright pink. And Mira's character was always the more blue tone, kind of somber colors. So again, I just. I was looking. I had to give publications some photos from Ramy and Michelle. And I was actually looking on the Internet last night and I was like, where is this coming from? In my head so crazy, the stuff like the gym outfits. There was nothing out there at the time for the gym outfits. And I was like, I need some cool gym outfits. Let's make some gym outfits. This is boring. What's out here. So we made the shiny gym outfits and again, working with actors like Lisa Kudrow, who is a great comedian, she was at the height of career walking into the sitting room and just going crazy. Let's do this. Okay. Let's do. This is more fun. Oh my God. Like just having a blast. And comedians are also really funny because they almost want to not afraid to take piss of themselves a little bit. Too. She just embraced that character incredibly.
- [38:30]
Cassidy
Yeah. Yeah. That movie is just. It's, again, another just sheer gift to fashion lovers.
- [38:37]
Mona May
Yeah. And it's the sunglasses. Did it open? Skull rapes, the cherry earrings. And it's like, I will go so far to find something. And it's great to have also a team, because I'm nothing. I don't. I'm nothing without my team, too. People who are like the shoppers, the pattern makers, the people, the people on set, coordinators, the supervisor who make everything happen and make sure that they wear this. The right clothes in the right scene. But it's not having that great artistic backbone for my team, too, is so important. And I would be nothing if I don't have the girls who are gonna have the same passion as I do to find those cherry earrings that they just were perfect for that scene.
- [39:19]
Cassidy
Yep. Absolutely perfect. Mona, thank you so much for being here today. I think I can speak for all of our listeners when I say that this was truly a treat. And thank you for sharing your joy of costume design with us. It's such a obvious passion of yours and a gift and an art form that you've cultivated all of these years. You're still designing. You designed Santa Clarita's diet with Drew.
- [39:43]
Mona May
Barrymore 20 years later. It's so cool.
- [39:47]
April
Yeah.
- [39:48]
Cassidy
Who you've worked with for all these years. I'm excited to keep my eyes open for what you have next.
- [39:53]
Mona May
Yes. Punky Brewster. Punky Brewster, coming near you. I'm actually designing an animated movie right now and doing some fun stuff in an animated girl character. And yeah, we'd love to come back. Maybe we can talk about Enchanted, which is one of. I love that movie so much. And Haunted Mansion, which is a lot more design and kind of process of also working with animation. United St. Little. I designed the animated character costumes, which is really fun. There's still more to talk, but loved being here. And thank you for. Again, I'm so happy to be on these shows and talk to you and journalists, because I think my craft people don't know what we do and to get the word out there what we do, who we are, to have the appreciation of our craft and our art. It's tremendous. It's really. I'm glad that there's more and more interest and I'm glad that articles like this and your posts still can bring more of that to the world. Here we are behind the scenes. You don't really see us, but create something incredible on the screen. You know, that's so important to the film and to actors, to the process of actors.
- [40:57]
Cassidy
I'm sure you've inspired this new generation of costume designers too, who are listening.
- [41:02]
Mona May
Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure. I get so many beautiful notes and letters. And please, people follow me on Instagram. I'm being much more creative on Instagram because now I got the bug. I wasn't before, but now I'm like, getting so much love from everybody. So I'm gonna post sketches and things. And I have an amazing website too, monomay.com but you guys can go. And there's, like, beautiful sketches and there is just truly tremendous amount of work to see on my website. Please direct your listeners and I just will keep sharing stuff with you guys.
- [41:34]
Cassidy
Yes, please do. We are all ears. We would love to have you back on the show. Mona. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, everyone.
- [41:42]
Mona May
Take care and be inspired every day.
- [41:45]
Cassidy
Thank you, Mona.
- [41:47]
April
Thank you so much for joining us.
- [41:49]
Cassidy
Yes. That was such a treat. I am still on such a high from that interview 1. Is anyone as excited about the Punky Brewster remake as I am? Or reboot, I should say.
- [42:00]
April
I didn't even know they were making a Punky Brewster remake. But I will say this. I was a huge Punky Brewster fan when I was younger, and I think she and I are like the same age. So I was like, in all the way.
- [42:15]
Cassidy
Oh, yeah. I am super, super excited. I was as well. And. And so that's 1.
- [42:21]
Doug
And 2.
- [42:22]
Cassidy
I cannot say enough wonderful things about Mona. Meeting her via Zoom, of course, but talking to her was really a highlight of my career. My time undressed my life. I could go on and on. The staying power of Clueless makes so much more sense now that I've spoken with her.
- [42:38]
Doug
Because it.
- [42:39]
Cassidy
I mean, it really shows in that interview. There's so much passion and heart that goes into her work. And to say this film helped sparked my love for fashion is probably the understatement of the year. I don't even think I knew what fashion was before that movie came out. I was still very young, but it definitely had a profound influence on me. And like I said in the interview, I even tried to recreate that computer program that played stylist. I drew my entire wardrobe on the computer. It didn't go very well, but I adopted the plaid miniskirt, the knee eye skin socks. Yeah, I could just go on. April. I am curious, though, if you have an early introduction to fashion that you would like to share.
- [43:17]
Mona May
I do.
- [43:18]
April
And this dates to probably 1980 and I remember very vividly there was a woman who lived in our neighborhood who got a pair of Jordache jeans and this is when they had just come out. So they had all that little intricate back stitching on the pockets and then they even had the little horse head on the pockets. And this was the talk of the neighborhood between all the mothers that she got these very expensive jeans. But I just remember watching how this dialogue was created among all these women, like without the person who had the jeans even being present. So I was probably 5, 4, 5 at this time. So that was one of my very earliest. Kind of like, oh, there's a something to this thing.
- [44:06]
Cassidy
Yeah. And it's really interesting how many people have that moment to have that really early connection with clothing that still stays with them to this day. It really speaks to how important clothing is to our identity and our identity formation at such a young age.
- [44:21]
Doug
So I also want to mention before.
- [44:23]
Cassidy
We go, that as a special treat for Clueless's 25 years, the film is streaming on Netflix. So if you've never seen it and you want to introduce it to your kids, if you need to see it again and again, it's there. But yeah, such a special interview.
- [44:37]
Mona May
Yay.
- [44:37]
Cassidy
And that does it for us today. Dressed listeners, may you consider an early influence on your relationship to fashion. Next time you get dressed.
- [44:48]
Mona May
Please head.
- [44:48]
April
To restpodcast on Instagram or Rest podcast without the underscore on Facebook to check out the visual content associated with each week's episodes.
- [44:59]
Cassidy
And remember, we always love hearing from.
- [45:01]
Doug
You so if you'd like to write to us, you can do so@hellorusthistory.com DressedHistory.com is also our website where you can sign up for our monthly newsletter, our in person tours and online fashion history courses and you can check out whatever else we have up our finely tailored sleeves.
- [45:17]
April
We get so many questions from you all about our recommendations for fashion history books. So if you are interested you can always find a link in our show notes to our Bookshop Bookshelf. So that address is bookshop.org shop dressed and there you can find over 150 of our favorite fashion history titles.
- [45:38]
Doug
And do you love dressed but want to skip the ads? You can now sign up for ad free listening with any tier on our Dressed History Patreon.
- [45:46]
April
We are also excited to now be part the of of the Airwave Network and their premium ad free History subscription Airwave History plus available on Apple Podcasts. The subscription brings dress and also 27 other popular history podcasts ad free for just $5.99 per month. More information on Patreon and Airwave is available at the link in our bio.
- [46:09]
Cassidy
Thank you as always for tuning in.
- [46:11]
Doug
And more dressed coming your way there soon.
- [46:15]
Cassidy
The History of Fashion is a production of Dress media.
- [46:23]
Doug
And Doug Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.
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April
Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?
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Doug
Cut the camera.
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April
They see us.
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Doug
Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Fairy Underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates Excludes Massachusetts. As a raider scavenging a derelict world, you settle into an underground settlement. But now you must return to the surface where arc machines roam. If you're brave enough, who knows what you might find. Arc Raiders, a multiplayer extraction adventure video game. Buy now for PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X and S and PC. Rated T for teenager.