Making It in America: The Almost Impossible Quest to Manufacture in the USA, an interview with Rachel Slade (Dressed Classic)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Dressed – "Making It in America: The Almost Impossible Quest to Manufacture in the USA"

Interview with Rachel Slade, author of Making It in America
Date: July 8, 2026
Location: Live at FIT’s 18th Annual Sustainable Business and Design Conference

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Episode Overview

This episode of Dressed: The History of Fashion features a live interview with journalist and author Rachel Slade, whose 2024 book, Making It in America: The Almost Impossible Quest to Manufacture in the USA, chronicles the journey of a modern company, American Roots, as it attempts to build a fully American-made apparel business. Set against the backdrop of America’s complex labor, trade, and immigration history, the conversation explores the enduring challenges of domestic manufacturing, the deep-rooted cultural and ethical issues at play, and the human stories behind the labels we wear.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Origins and Motivation (05:56 – 08:03)

• Rachel Slade’s family legacy:
  Slade traces her interest in American manufacturing back to her family’s immigrant roots and history with the clothing industry.

  • “Making was so important to me. It was part of my history. It was part of my realization of the American dream. Over 130 years.” (Rachel Slade, 06:53)

• Making as identity and community:
  Slade emphasizes the role of “making”—creating clothing or products—not only in her family, but as a source of independence and connection.

2. Introducing American Roots and the Waxmans (08:03 – 10:26)

• The Waxman family’s back-to-the-land ethos:
  Dan and Dory Waxman move to Maine as part of a 1970s countercultural effort for self-sufficiency, ultimately launching textile-based businesses.

  • Dory’s passion for “making” and instilling entrepreneurship in her sons set the foundation for American Roots.

• From family industry to mission-driven manufacturing:
  Ben Waxman (Dory’s son) is steeped in local textile culture, then moves into political organizing before returning to launch American Roots.

3. Ben Waxman’s Labor Movement Background (10:26 – 12:00)

• Political organizing and union experience:
  Ben’s experience with the AFL-CIO during a time of U.S. factory closure informs his drive to create a business model that values both employees and domestic production.
  • “Ben worked his way, way up the AFL-CIO, but… factories were shutting down left and right, and labor couldn’t stop it. So he was standing… with American workers… losing their jobs, losing their pensions, and losing their communities all at one time. This nearly broke him.” (Rachel Slade, 11:24)

4. The Founding Mission of American Roots (12:00 – 13:36)

• Purpose-driven production:
  American Roots seeks to make apparel (starting with fleece vests and later hoodies), ensure unionization, fair pay, and domestic sourcing.

  • “The mission was to produce things and to treat workers well. It was a very simple ambition in the end.” (Rachel Slade, 12:27)

• Valuing workers beyond wages:
  Employee support extends to paid leave, housing help, and community integration, reminiscent of early 20th-century union social functions.

5. Labor Tension and the Historical Backdrop (15:51 – 21:25)

• America’s long, violent labor history:
  The episode explores how industrialization, profit-seeking, and distance between owners and workers fueled exploitation and frequent conflict. Armories were commonly built to suppress labor unrest.

  • “People became accessories to machines and were expected to work like machines. Of course, that included children, anybody else who was physically able.” (Rachel Slade, 19:40)

• The shift to offshoring and ‘race to the bottom’:
  As labor regulation increased in the U.S., companies chased cheaper labor elsewhere, gutting domestic manufacturing.

6. The Value of Domestic Manufacturing (21:25 – 24:42)

• Economic, cultural, and ethical implications:
  Domestic manufacturing means taxes stay local, labor/environment laws apply, and innovation and social stability are fostered.

  • “Making… allows us to innovate.” (Rachel Slade, 22:38)
  • “When we divorce ourselves from the process of making… there’s a real divide.” (Rachel Slade, 23:10)

• A call for rebuilding respect for making:
  Slade advocates for a renewed culture that recognizes and honors the work and people behind U.S.-made goods.

7. Action Steps for Change (24:42 – 26:43)

• What individuals can do:
  • Support Made in USA brands (Slade hosts a crowdsourced list on her website).
  • Engage politically: “Please vote, please vote, Please vote… Vote for the candidates who you feel do support makers and manufacturing in a smart way, in a thoughtful way.” (Rachel Slade, 25:26)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On American Roots’ foundational philosophy:
  “They would never pay themselves more than four times their lowest worker’s wage… They committed themselves to righting so many of our current fashion industry’s wrongs by making something we all know and love, and that is hoodies.” (Podcast Host, 04:04)

• Historical insight:
  “The last time Americans have been so chronically dependent on imports was when they were a colony of the British Empire.” (Podcast Host quoting Slade, 21:25)

• Reality check on cheap imports:
  “The first thing that I say… is why is that stuff so cheap? That should be your first question, right? Like how many people and how many environments have to be exploited to get you that $10 dress?” (Rachel Slade, 35:41)

• On selling more than a product:
  “What we’re selling here is values, but what we’re making is hoodies.” (Podcast Host quoting American Roots’ assistant designer, 38:48)

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Audience Q&A Highlights

1. Gender, Labor, and Unions (29:57 – 31:58)

• Women as backbone of apparel labor:
  “Women have almost always been in the apparel and textile industry… they were willing to do whatever they had to to support that family. And oftentimes that meant making really difficult compromises…” (Rachel Slade, 30:39)

• Importance of collective action:
  “The only way that workers can control their lives at all is by getting together and speaking with one voice.” (Rachel Slade, 31:57)

2. The Cost of Ethical Fashion (34:44 – 38:48)

• Why is U.S.-made more expensive?
  Slade reframes the question: instead of asking why domestically-produced goods cost more, ask why overseas goods are so cheap—reminding listeners of the true cost of exploitation.
• Role of tariffs:
  Slade argues implementing tariffs could help create “pricing justice” by leveling the playing field with imports.

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Key Timestamps

• Family & History of Making: 05:56 – 08:03
• Waxman Family & Early Making: 08:03 – 10:26
• Political Organizing & Return to Portland: 10:26 – 12:00
• American Roots’ Mission & Worker Welfare: 12:00 – 13:36
• Labor History & Exploitation: 15:51 – 21:25
• The Value of Domestic Manufacturing: 21:25 – 24:42
• How to Support Change: 24:42 – 26:43
• Gender & Labor Unions Q&A: 29:57 – 31:58
• The True Cost Q&A: 34:44 – 38:48

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Final Thoughts

Rachel Slade’s interview provides a powerful account of American Roots’ determination to “bring back” truly domestic apparel manufacturing—a process fraught with nearly insurmountable obstacles but vital for sparking bigger conversations about labor, sustainability, and our collective values as consumers. The episode underscores that “making” is deeply woven into America’s past and its potential future and urges listeners to become conscious supporters and political advocates for a more just and connected fashion system.

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Recommended Actions:

• Discover Making It in America via bookshop.org (link in episode show notes)
• Support American Roots (americanrootswear.com, @americanrootswear)
• Explore U.S.-made fashion brands and vote for labor- and manufacturing-supportive policies

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Transcript

[Cassidy Zachary]

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[Rachel Slade]

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[April Callahan]

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[Rachel Slade]

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[Carvana Representative]

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[Rachel Slade]

I hit 200 on the scratcher.

[Carvana Representative]

Did the scratcher come to your house and hand you a check? No. How many scratchers did you hit to get that? I hit a button on Carvana.com once.

[Rachel Slade]

Okay, that's fair.

[Carvana Representative]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Carvana Representative]

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[Podcast Host]

The History of Fashion is a production of dress media. With over 8 billion people in the world, we all have one thing in common.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Every day, we all get dressed.

[Podcast Host]

Welcome to Dressed, the History of Fashion, a podcast that explores the who, what, when of why we wear. We are fashion historians and your hosts,

Cassidy Zachary and April Callahan. And dress listeners, you are in for a very special treat. And that is because today's episode is actually the first of a couple different episodes that we have recorded recently in front of live audiences.

[April Callahan]

Please enjoy one of our favorite episodes from the Dressed archive of over 500 plus shows.

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

Yeah. So recently, Dressed was invited to produce this episode that we're doing here today as a live episode to open up the very first day of the Fashion Institute of Technology's 18th annual Sustainable Business and Design Conference. And Cass, I'm sure you remember when we got this invitation, I was like, I already have the perfect person to interview if she's willing to and able to join us in New York and that, friends, is today's guest, Rachel Slade.

Rachel is a former staff editor and writer at Boston Magazine and the Boston Globe. She has won national awards in civic journalism, reporting and criticism. She is the author of the national bestseller into the Raging Sea, which is a fascinating tale of globalism in the context of the international shipping industry and was tapped by the New York Times as a notable book. And she joined April Onstage in New York City to speak about her latest title, Making it in America the Almost Impossible Quest to Manufacture in the USA and How It Got that Way, which was released in January of 2024.

And this book is a tremendously fascinating read, listeners. Once I picked it up, it was kind of hard to put down. It is a feat of research on the history of labor, trade and immigration in the United States. And it has this bigger history spanning back to the founding of our nation. But it's actually told all through the lens of looking at a single company, American Roots, which against all odds set out in 2015 to design and manufacture garments that are 100% American made. So we're talking from the homegrown American cotton to zippers made in the US to the cut and sew operations that turn these American materials into their finished products. But they were not about to stop there, right?

Because as Rachel writes, American Roots sought to quote, bring back apparel manufacturing to America. They would be uncompromising in their commitment to domestic sourcing and the welfare of their employees. They, they would never pay themselves more than four times their lowest workers wage. In other words, dress listeners, they committed themselves to writing so many of our current fashion industries wrongs by making something we all know and love, and that is hoodies. Listeners, we are so pleased to introduce you to this eye opening book which will shift your understanding of not just our current fashion system, but the history of America itself. Rachel, thank you so much for joining April in conversation.

Good morning everyone. Rachel, thank you so much for being here. I feel like we know each other already after reading your book. We totally hit it off in the green room earlier and I'm super delighted to be here today.

[Rachel Slade]

Thank you, thank you.

[Podcast Host]

And I'm super delighted to be here with you all at the 18th annual Sustainable Business and Design Conference. And when the sustainability committee approached me a few months ago about potentially doing doing a live episode of Dressed, I was already partway through Rachel's book. So immediately I was like, oh, I have the perfect person to do this. And I'm really so honored to be able to help you share the story about this book because this is an incredibly important book. At its core, it's really about one company's mission to manufacture garments made 100% in the United States. But really what this ends up being is we're gonna learn about their struggles and also their triumphs and also these other issues of sustainability, foreign trade legislation, and even immigration policy. So, Rachel, epic book. How did you get to this point, weaving this story for us all together?

[Rachel Slade]

Well, thank you. My great grandfather was an immigrant. This is the story all of us tell.

[April Callahan]

Right.

[Rachel Slade]

And he came to America in 1890 to a very small town in southern New Jersey, where originally it was supposed to be an agrarian. A utopian agrarian community. And ultimately they turned to manufacturing. So my grandmother was brought up as the daughter of the man who ultimately ended up owning and running this factory. And she went to school side by side with the children who were also working in this factory. And it made a huge impression on her that they were working and sometimes gravely injured by the processes of making. They were making clothing. And so maybe in part to a tone, she married a labor lawyer who is my grandfather. And so I would hear these stories about making from her. I would hear stories about labor from my grandfather. And then my mother ended up marrying the son of a man who also was the children of immigrant, was a child of immigrants who made clothes as well in Philadelphia. So making was so important to me. It was part of my history. It was part of my realization of the American dream. Right. Over 130 years. And then ultimately, my mother was also a maker. And so just to bring it all home, my mother had apprenticed with a dressmaker when she was younger. And I remember her making clothes for me. And that showed me that we make, that making is a part of our identity. It means that you can be independent.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Rachel Slade]

You can create anything you want. You can imagine it, you can create it. But also that making is a part of connecting, part of community, part of part of family building. So it just kind of came all the way home to me when I found this company up in Maine that was also a family company, building community through making.

[Podcast Host]

Absolutely. Will you introduce us to the Waxmans?

[Rachel Slade]

I would love to. So the Waxmans, Dan and Dory Waxman, were hippies, basically, and they came to Maine. Maine in the 1970s was one of those back to the land places. A lot of people came from cities and other, you know, to try to find a different kind of dream. It was like a rural dream, a self sufficiency dream. And that was the Waxmans, Dan and Dory. Came up to Maine, and they ended up having three boys, moved to Portland, which is the biggest city in Maine, for those of you who aren't familiar with Maine. And ultimately, Dory was very drawn to the idea of making. She had bounced around. She had done all kinds of service jobs. She had worked as, like a short order cook and a waitress and all kinds of things, because that's how you make it in Maine, right? You have to cobble together a living. It's not easy. And she was drawn to making. She wanted to teach her boys about making. She wanted to teach her boys about entrepreneurship. And she was also surrounded at the time. Now, this is the late 80s, early 90s, by the textile mills that were all over New England, right, Breaking out beautiful woven fabrics. And so Dory ended up creating a company that made capes and blankets from the textiles in Maine. And Ben, her son, her oldest, got involved in the business just because he had no choice. There's Ben on the right. He even learned how to cut fabric. They learned how to sew. It was so cold one year in the barn where they were doing the cutting that Ben had to stand with a blow dryer to keep the oil from freezing inside the machine, the cutting machine. So that was Ben's history, coming from making.

[Podcast Host]

Ben grew up in this environment with his mother, who was manufacturing beautiful capes in Maine. But also he went off on a different career path on his own during his 20s. So that really sets the scene for establishing American Roots, which is the company that's at the core of Rachel's book. Could you tell us just very briefly about his career path and how it set him up to do this?

[Rachel Slade]

Yeah. So Dory, when they moved to Portland, Portland is a massive center of immigrant movement. There are a lot of people coming from all over the world to Portland. It's a port city, but it's also very welcoming to the immigrant community. And so Dori actually very early on got involved in city council, got involved in the school board. And that sparked Ben's interest in political organizing. And so he began. He actually dropped out of school to do political organizing for Bill Bradley. I don't know if you remember him. He actually ran for president. He was considered the progressive candidate in the 2000 election. And then ultimately, Ben ended up with the AFL CIO, which is the umbrella organization for many unions in America, and they represent over 12 million people. And Ben worked his way, way up the AFL cio, but at the same time, he was going to places. Now, this is 2003 to 2013, where factories were shutting down left and right, and labor couldn't stop it. So he was standing side by side, shoulder, shoulder with American workers in manufacturing who are losing their jobs, losing their pensions, and losing their communities all at one time. And this nearly broke him. And he came back to Portland broken, but also determined to prove that capitalism could be a force of good. And he really wanted to prove that.

[Podcast Host]

So what was the initial concept and mission of American Roots?

[Rachel Slade]

So Ben's back in Portland, and he's trying to think of what they can make. He wants to make something, but he also wants to make sure that his employees are unionized, treated well. Like, this is a very ambitious mission plan for somebody who has never actually done manufacturing. So the mission was to produce things and to treat workers well. It was a very simple ambition in the end.

[Podcast Host]

A lot more complicated than you think.

[Rachel Slade]

It's much more complicated. You have to first find your product. And their first product was actually a fleece vest that they could then embroider, or silk screen, I suppose, for folks. Fleece vests are very popular up in Boston, up in New England. And then ultimately they ended up making hoodies, which I guess we'll talk about.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that a lot of times people are very removed from the fact that that garment manufacturing is a very personal business.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

And it requires human touch. We forget sometimes that the clothes that we all wear sometimes have been touched by hundreds of hands before they even get to us. And you mentioned how important it was to Ben and Whitney to treat their employees quite well, to make sure that they were able to be part of unions. Would you tell us a little bit about the team that they assembled and how did they value their employees at American Roots?

[Rachel Slade]

Yeah. So when they first started the company, an apparel company up in Maine, they thought that they would employ people who had been in the apparel industry who had lost their jobs with the passage of nafta, the North American Free Trade Agreement, which really gutted the apparel industry first and then came after everybody else's jobs after. So they thought those people would be walking through their doors, like, ready to go. And it turns out that they were too late. Those people were either retired or gone or had moved on. And the people who did walk in their door were immigrants, some people from very difficult backgrounds, a lot of people who actually did not have any experience sewing. And so they took folks, of course, if they were willing to be trained and willing to do the work, that's who they took. And we know here in New York, there's this incredible history of immigrants. Waves of immigrants coming through and then working in the garment industry, oftentimes being exploited. And of course, that was the one thing that Ben and Whitney were committed not to do. So immediately. They made sure that their employees had vacation time, that they had paid sick leave so they could take care of of their families. You know, when immigrants come from other places, oftentimes there's trauma, and that has serious health implications for the people who came over for their children. It can be generational trauma. And so these groups are coming with lots, lots of attendant issues. And Ben and Whitney very quickly also became ambassadors to the American system. Like, this is how you integrate. They helped people find homes and find schools for their children and taught them, of course, trained them, taught them how to bank. I mean, these are the kinds of things that unions used to do and maybe still do to a certain extent. But it was like in early New York union history here in the 20s and 30s, like, that was one of the main roles of unions was. Was to help immigrants integrate into American society. Because, guys, this may seem normal, but this is not.

[Podcast Host]

Well, I mean, just the very fact that what American Roots offers their employees is now considered to be, like, incredibly generous or progressive, it really underscores the current state of affairs that a lot of the American workforce is operating under currently. So let's really get into this. I'm hoping that we could speak a little bit, because your book is so incredibly richly researched. I'm hoping that we can get into the history a little bit about the tensions between employers and labor in the US you delve into extensively. And I think that kind of sets the stage for some of the struggles that we still today are facing. You know, one of the things that sticks stunned me when I read your book is you stated a fact that one of the reasons there are so many brick armories across the US and in middle America is that they were there to suppress labor uprisings. Shocking.

[Rachel Slade]

So actually, there's this fun case from Massachusetts.

[FIT Faculty Member]

Yay.

[Rachel Slade]

I'm from. I live in Boston now, and I want to refer to this, the group of these guys. That's why I brought this piece of paper here. Okay. So it was the Boston Journeyman's Bootmaker Society. So if anybody has a band, I feel like that'd be a great name for a band.

[Podcast Host]

Right? We're solving all the world's problems.

[Rachel Slade]

Yeah, we are the Boston Journeyman's Bootmaker Society. It was basically a guild, and, you know, when industrialization happened, started to threaten people's jobs, guilds became very, very important. So these were boot makers in the 1840s, and they basically were fixing prices. Like, they had this agreement in Boston that anybody who was trained in the apprentice system would then charge x amount for boots, because, remember, you can buy boots online. They were the suppliers of footwear in Boston. And they actually asked a company to fire an employee because the employer was, like, moonlighting on the side for less money. And of course, that threatened the whole ecosystem.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Rachel Slade]

If somebody's selling for less, well, then what's preventing other people from selling for less? And so that actually triggered a landmark case in Massachusetts that was decided by the state supreme court. And the real question was, if is people gathering to discuss these kinds of things, Is that considered a criminal conspiracy? Like, that's how crude our labor law was, that people couldn't even get together because it was considered a criminal act. And ultimately, fortunately, it was decided that, no, actually, the. Let's remember these guys again. The Boston Germans bootmaker society did have the right to get together to talk about all kinds of things. They were not a criminal enterprise. And that launched, in some ways, the legality of the labor movement in America. But as we know, it has been painful. Blood has been shed. Lives have been lost. You told me a great story about your own great grandfather.

[Podcast Host]

You know, the institutionalized support oppression of labor organizations is very real. My great grandfather actually lost his life

in a steel dispute.

He was murdered. And not to be maudlin this morning, but, you know, one of the chapters in your book speaks directly to this. You entitle it greed is a real thing. So what exactly are we talking about? What was at stake that these types of things were actually happening as a repercussion. A repercussion to labor disputes.

[Rachel Slade]

Yeah. So when industrialization took hold, people became accessories to machines and were expected to work like machines. Of course, that included children, anybody else who was physically able. And as the labor force began to look less and less like the people who owned the factories. And as owners moved further and further away, physically and emotionally, in all kinds of ways, politically, from the factory itself, it then became a quest for a race to the bottom. Basically, like, how can we produce as cheaply and quickly as possible? And there was no recourse for the people working in the factories. And if they did strike or push back, there was always immigrant labor feeding this machine. And when immigrant labor stopped, right in the 1920s, when America basically put a cap on immigration, then companies moved to smaller towns where you'd have a captive audience and people couldn't leave. They moved to get away from unions because unions were very plugged into cities. But if you moved out to rural America, so they spread all over. And then ultimately, when profits became a good thing, when pure profit became the motivating factor in American economy. And I'm talking about now in the 80s, with mergers and acquisitions and kind of the worship of the people who make a lot of money. There was a huge push then to just offshore. Just, let's just get out from under all the regulations in America and go abroad, go to other places where people have no choice but to work for less.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I mean, it really hit home for me when you write in the book, you say, quote, the last time Americans have been so chronically dependent on imports was when they were a colony of the British Empire. So I'm hoping that you can really speak to. And this is kind of the core of what we're trying to get here to today is what kind of value is created in the United States when we keep manufacturing alive and well here?

[Rachel Slade]

Yeah, thank you for that question. So I'm not like, rah, rah, yay, America. Go, go, go. But I live in this country. This is my nation. And I'm dependent on many, many things that other people do. Making human here in America means that the people who are making are paying taxes to start. Let's just talk about that. So when I support makers in America, I'm supporting people who are supporting me through this economy. But ultimately, manufacturing here in America does many, many things. One is we fortunately have systems in place that can somewhat regulate labor, somewhat regulate the environmental destruction that's caused, or hopefully not too much destruction that's caused by the apparel and textile community and making in general. Like, we have laws. Now, whether or not those have been reinforced depends, of course, on who's controlling what at any moment. But there are laws to protect these things. Now, the other thing is that there are a lot of people, and I think a lot of people here in this room. Room who love making, right? Inventing, making, it allows us to innovate. I was trained as an architect. I went to architecture school at University of Pennsylvania. And I know, I know that so many inventions that so many of the things that we come up with are happy accidents, right? And that's true, that has been true in America, and that's been true, true all over the world, that making then leads to innovation. There's also this very profound cultural thing that's happening in America, right? When we divorce ourselves from the process of making. And we no longer respect makers and really think about the people who are making. There's a real divide, right? There's this political and cultural divide that happens and between the people who feel that they are not seen and the people who are making the decisions and doing the consuming. And so I do think, I truly think, I believe, and I wrote a whole book about it, that if we can return to a making culture, if we can start to think more about, you know, taking care of makers, encouraging makers, encouraging young people also to go into manufacturing, then we can start to rebuild this beautiful network, right? The economic network, but also the respect for the natural resources, for example, and the humans who are producing, the things that we wear, the things that we use every single day. Yeah, it sounds a little bit utopian, but I think it can work.

[Podcast Host]

Do you have any particular thoughts on. I think there's a lot of students that are going to be in attendance today. Do you have any particular thoughts on what we as individuals can do to engender this change?

[Rachel Slade]

Oh, yeah. So we have these really big companies, right? We have Amazon, we have tamu, we have Shein, we have all these major companies that are there basically to just resell resources, right, and make a massive profit off of that. And they are not involved in manufacturing. There's also Nike, there's Adidas, There are all these companies that are completely dedicated to branding and marketing and maybe a little bit of design and then the making happens elsewhere, right? So the first thing I think that we can do is obviously start to think a lot more about made and buying Made in USA brands. There's actually a place on my website where Made in USA brands, where I list all the brands that I think are really cool and it's crowdsourced. So if you have ideas, please let me know, email me. I'm adding to the list all the time, like really wonderful makers, producers, designers. But of course, I can't stress this enough. Please vote, please vote, Please vote. There are candidates out there always who understand the importance of labor and manufacturing and how the are connected and how they build community and how they make our country stronger and more independent so that politically we can act as global leaders in a righteous way to a certain extent. So please vote for the candidates who you feel do support makers and manufacturing in a smart way, in a thoughtful way. It's the only control ultimately that we have. Labor unions protect workers, but politicians, if they know that this is something that's important, will support manufacturing and labor. We just have to let them know that that's what we care about.

[FIT Faculty Member]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

And as I told you before we started, FIT has an incredibly strong union and we all know how that plays out. And you know the union taking care of us all. I think we have a few minutes for questions if anybody has some, but we're not signing off quite yet. But thank you Rachel. And I cannot say enough really wonderful things about this book. Guys, we only had a half an hour to talk about something that we could probably talk about for three hours. So get your hands on the book. I promise you you are not gonna be disappointed. It's a fascinating read.

[Rachel Slade]

Oh, thank you so much.

[Podcast Host]

Of course we're gonna take a short sponsor break here and we'll be back with questions from our in person audience. The first question was unfortunately not caught on mic, so we'll be back with Rachel's answer to a question about the gender division within labor unions.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Dress Listeners Summer is in full effect and it has been a scorcher. Cass I have been in France for the last few months and as our listeners might know it has been record breaking temperatures here and that is one

[Podcast Host]

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[Cassidy Zachary]

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[April Callahan]

Yes, their lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops are wonderful and they start at $30 and they're effortless, breathable and easy to wear on repeat. They use premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim. And as you know, we love this dress listeners. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality and craftsmanship, not brand markup.

[Rachel Slade]

Also, I am completely in love with

[Cassidy Zachary]

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[April Callahan]

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[Rachel Slade]

Yeah, so the question is about gender and unions and the overlap. Certainly in the apparel industry and textile industry in the United States has been heavily female. And that continues as we often. Right. So when the rana factory in 2012 in Bangladesh, when that collapsed, it was mostly women who were killed. Women have almost always been in the apparel and textile industry. And that's why, of course, it was so important here in America, here when immigrant groups started coming over from Eastern Europe, they come with ideas about how unions could work, how labor could work, organize. And, you know, they brought those ideas into the factories here in America. But yes, I mean, traditionally, of course, women, they are the main caretakers of the family. And traditionally, and they were willing to do whatever they had to to support that family. And oftentimes that meant making really difficult compromises in terms of how lack of long they had to be in the factory, what wages they made when they were paid, and even if they were paid, there's no question that, you know, women in factories, but also men, as you mentioned, in steel and mining, in the United Auto Workers, which were traditionally male industries, I mean, the gender roles in different industries obviously are different, but always they need representation because the owners, the shareholders, if you will, generally have very little consideration for what people's lives are like, who are working there. It's not something they have a need to be attuned to.

[April Callahan]

Right.

[Rachel Slade]

It doesn't concern them. And so the only way that workers can control their lives at all is by getting together and speaking with one voice.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you. Another question.

[FIT Faculty Member]

Hi. Thank you so much. I teach here at FIT and I have had my own line and produced in New York City for a very long time. So thank you for your book. I just wanted to also say there are tons of manufacturers here in New York City that most people don't even know about. And in relation, relationship to what you're talking about, if anybody doesn't know the true cost, the movie, the true cost, if you haven't seen it, you should Watch it because it really shocked me and I've been doing it for a long time, but never overseas. So sorry, there's really not a question. But thank you so much for this talk.

[Rachel Slade]

Yeah, actually one of the. The designer at American Roots was trained in fashion at the Mass. Mass Art and he worked in fashion for a little while in Australia and he after 10 years he came back to Maine. He was a Maine native and he said I can't do this anymore because it was just so exploitive the fashion industry. And then he ended up at American Roots and he felt finally that he found a place that he could use his skills for good and not for evil. But it is difficult, right? And when you're a designer, you know, especially young, just starting out, I mean where do you make those compromises? I really do wonder about young makers because you want your things out there, you want to be price competitive and you know, working through all these different systems, the pattern makers, the fabric, the cut and sew operations like where, where do you compromise your. Your values? It must be very difficult. But I am heartened that there are also many makers around the country where you can contract with and there are also companies now that are trying to pull, use technology, AI and other technology to like pull all this together. So it could be, imagine a one stop shop so young designers can actually do a what you see what you get sort of situation and then send it off to one of these companies that pulls all of this together. So concentrating the industry I'd imagine in a way would really help young designers. There are also minimums which are so difficult. I'm sure anybody here who's ever tried to manufacture the fabric, minimums are really tough to meet. So it's hard. It's hard. It's complicated and I commend you for even trying. But it can be done obviously and people are doing it. And then the next question of course is how do you get in front of your consumers which is also becoming ever more complicated and expensive.

[Podcast Host]

Does anyone else have a question?

[Audience Member]

So I know you mentioned towards end. Thank you so much. About how like how getting like the product into the consumer, especially since you know, American made brands are typically run at a higher price point than things that are offshored and outsourced. So how can brands try to make their products and pricing more equitable? Because a lot of people can't afford brands that are made in America or things that are priced at a higher price point in clothing not might not necessarily be their number one priority to be spending a Lot of money. Because there are a lot of other things. So how can brands try to balance profit versus ethics? And I know it's a hard question, like you mentioned, but I'd love to know your thoughts on it.

[Rachel Slade]

Yeah, I mean, this whole question about American goods being more expensive, I mean, that's true, right? That's true. And one of the things that I say about that, because when I speak in front of audiences, it's one of the first things people say, well, you know, American stuff's expensive. The first thing that I say, and this is not a direct answer to your question, but bear with me for a sec, is why is that stuff so cheap? That should be your first question, right? Like how many people and how many environments have to be exploited to get you that $10 dress? And the answer is a whole lot. We were talking about, there was an ad campaign, I think it was back in the 80s, it was an anti fur campaign. I think it was run by PETA. And they ran one of the most effective images. I still see it in my head. It was a woman holding a full length fur coat and she's dragging it on the ground and following it is a pool of blood. I mean, you can't look away. It was horrible, horrifying. And I think that one image stopped people from, stopped most people from buying fur. It was very effective for me. And I feel that this is part of the message that we need to be talking about, which is like, how much exploitation has to happen? What does that look like? What does that exploitation look like? And how much will this thing actually cost us in the future when we buy it for $10? We also, I think, need to start talking about what is the value of Made in usa? Like, what does it mean? And part of it is just the knowledge that fewer people and environments have been exploited. Right. But ultimately, yes, stuff is more expensive because it's more regulated and consumers will have to make a choice. The other piece of this is tariffs. Now, I don't want to get too in the weeds, political, but tariffs used to be very high in the United States. That means that goods that were imported were charged a certain percentage above their value to stem the influx of cheap goods. And when the United States decided that they were going to save the world through democracy by getting everybody interconnected globally through global trade, America dropped these tariffs down to almost zero. And actually, in my book, it's an amazing graph. It shows Tariffs from 1850 in the United States to now. And there's like this precipitous drop after World War II so that American goods were no longer protected. In that way, tariffs level the playing field. Tariffs make up for the gross differences in how labor and environment is regulated in other parts of the world. I might be talking a little bit out of your wheelhouse at the moment, but I do believe that tariffs will help to restore some kind of pricing justice to you who are trying to make things ethically here in your own country.

[Podcast Host]

And I think one of the assistant designers, and you quote him in the book, even said something to the effect of what we're selling here is values, but what we're making is hoodies.

[Cassidy Zachary]

And I think that really sums up

[Podcast Host]

the book very, very well. I put up on the screen here if you want to follow American Roots,

[Rachel Slade]

you can do so.

[Podcast Host]

It's incredibly inspirational story story in the end. So Rachel, thank you so much for this book and for sharing it with all of us today.

[Rachel Slade]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Podcast Host]

April, what an intriguing conversation you and Rachel had at FIT's 18th annual Sustainable Business and Design Conference. And listeners, if this piqued your interest,

[April Callahan]

this is just the tip of the

[Podcast Host]

iceberg of what the book lays out. There's a lot more to say about the trials and tribulations of sourcing American made products to go into American made garments, lots more about the political mechanizations of trade policy, and lots more about the very heartwarming story of American Roots. We really cannot recommend Rachel's book enough. Making it in America is now on our dress [e-mail] and you can also find a link to that in our show notes.

And why don't we all also give

American Roots some love? They currently specialize in bulk orders for businesses and organizations, especially if those organizations are unions. So if you find yourself as a quaint person in charge of ordering customized garments for any of the above, you can find American Roots in their catalog at AmericanRootsWear. That's W E A R dot com and if you don't find yourself in need of bulk orders of hoodies, maybe

you would still like to show your

support for them by following them on Instagram. And that is americanrootswear. W E A R again.

I mean, I think it would be kind of cool if we sent them

a ton of followers just to shower them with a little appreciation what they have managed to do so far and all of these lives that they have changed along the way. So on Instagram again, that's American Rootswear.

[Rachel Slade]

Give them a follow.

[Podcast Host]

And speaking of Instagram, we will of course post a few images of their operations in Maine on our Instagram, which is restpodcast, where you can find images to accompany each week's episodes. You can also DM us there if

[April Callahan]

you would like to reach out.

[Podcast Host]

And if you'd like to find the Instagram content related to this episode, you can search the hashtag dress360. Remember, we love hearing from from you

[April Callahan]

dress listeners, so if you'd like to

[Podcast Host]

write to us, you can do so@hello dresshistory.com Dresshistory.com is also our website where you can sign up for our monthly newsletter, our in person tours and online fashion history courses. And there you can also check out

[April Callahan]

whatever else we have up our finely tailored sleeves.

[Podcast Host]

We get so many questions from you all about our recommendations for fashion history books, so if you're interested you can always find a link in our show Notes to our book bookshop.org bookshelf so that address is bookshop.org shop dressed and there you will find over 150 of our favorite fashion history titles.

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Thank you as always for tuning in and more Dressed coming your way soon. The History of Fashion is a production of Dressed Media.