The Art of Kimono with Keita Motoji and Mark McNulty of Ginza Motoji, Part I (Dressed Classic)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Art of Kimono with Keita Motoji and Mark McNulty of Ginza Motoji, Part I

Podcast: Dressed: The History of Fashion
Air Date: June 12, 2026
Hosts: April Callahan, Cassidy Zachary
Guests: Keita Motoji (Owner/Director, Ginza Motoji), Mark McNulty (Designer/Educator, Ginza Motoji)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Dressed delves into the living tradition of Japanese kimono craftsmanship, featuring an in-depth interview with Keita Motoji (second-generation owner of Ginza Motoji, Tokyo’s premier kimono specialty shop) and Mark McNulty (an Irish designer and integral member of the Ginza Motoji team). Listeners are taken "behind the seams" to explore the remarkable artistry, centuries-old techniques, and the craftspeople responsible for each kimono’s journey— from raw materials to wearable art. The episode foregrounds the importance of storytelling in garment making and preserving traditional Japanese textiles within a contemporary context.

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Key Topics and Insights

1. The Legacy and Mission of Ginza Motoji

[05:07–07:14] Keita Motoji’s Story

• Origin: Keita’s father, Kome Motoji, founded Ginza Motoji in 1979 after a personal epiphany following an athletic injury. Inspired by the emotional connection to his father's kimono, Kome dedicated himself to the kimono industry.
• Stores: Ginza Motoji comprises two specialty locations in Tokyo’s upscale Ginza district—one for women’s kimono and Otokono Kimono, the first men’s kimono shop in Japan.
• Mission: “Our mission at Ginza Motoji is to be the bridge between customers and traditional Japanese textiles. We believe we are the craftspeople of storytelling and it is our responsibility to pass a wealth of that knowledge from the kimono creators to the customers.” —Keita Motoji [06:41]

2. Mark McNulty’s Journey to Kimono

[07:48–10:11]

• Background: Originally from Ireland and trained in textiles, Mark planned a brief Tokyo visit, only to become captivated by kimono techniques.
• Role: Now six years at Ginza Motoji, he handles design, education, and especially English translations (“I think it’s so uncommon to have a lot of these techniques recorded properly in English.” [09:24]), making kimono knowledge more globally accessible.

3. Kimono: Structure and Enduring History

[10:38–11:48] Keita Motoji

• Essence: Kimono, derived from the kosode undergarment, has maintained its construction and wearing customs for centuries.
• Production: Sold as narrow bolts (tanmono)—measuring 38cm wide and 12m long—each making exactly one kimono, cut into eight pieces, hand-sewn, and designed to be passed down or refitted across generations.

4. Celebrating Craft and Artisans Across Japan

[12:19–13:41] Significance of Visiting Artisans

• Approach: Direct engagement, not textbook learning, ensures genuine connections with regional craftspeople: “You have to see with your own eyes, to listen with your own ears, to be able to say in your own words.” —Mark McNulty [12:23]
• Provenance: Each bolt of kimono fabric carries stamps at its end (“all of the provenance is written there…” [14:22]), cataloging every artisan’s contribution for customers to cherish.

5. The Stage-by-Stage Kimono-Making Process

a. Silk: The Platinum Boy Project

[17:32–20:52]

• Crisis in Japanese Silk: From 200,000 producers a century ago to only 160 today; much silk now imported.
• Innovation: Ginza Motoji’s exclusive “Platinum Boy” silk, made entirely in Japan from male silkworms for superior brightness and strength.
• Notable Quote: “Because the male silkworm, their only job is to produce silk. So they're really, really small and they have a really, really small mouth. And then because of that they make really, really thin threads...it’s just, it’s completely different. It’s like so much brighter and shinier.” —Mark [18:57]

b. Jōfu: Plant-Fiber Kimono Fabrics

[21:30–24:36]

• Material: Jōfu (from the nettle family) is a casual, summer alternative to silk.
• Unique Production: Techniques like “yukizarashi” (snow-bleaching in Niigata) and “umizarashi” (ocean bleaching in Yaeyama) clean and finish the fabric by exploiting local environments.

c. Weaving and In-Store Demonstrations

[25:22–28:13]

• Techniques: Focus on “kasuri” (ikat, pre-dyeing warp/weft threads for patterns) and Oshima Tsumugi, famed for its ultra-fine woven details.
• Customer Experience: Tokyo shop contains a working loom with artisans demonstrating weaving—customers can even order bespoke fabrics and witness their kimono’s creation.

d. Mud Dyeing in Amami Oshima

[28:55–30:32]

• Process: Silk threads are repeatedly dipped in iron-rich local mud and the juice of the tetsugi tree, yielding coveted deep black fabric: “...they're dyed within both of these dyes like about 80, 100 times. And that produces this really, really, really dark black silk…” —Mark

e. Edo Komon: Discreet Pattern Artistry

[30:47–32:58]

• Technique: Microscopic stencil patterns, born from Edo Period sumptuary laws restricting flamboyant dress, are hand-cut and applied with rice-paste resist and dye.
• Notable Quote: “From a distance it doesn’t look like anything. But when you’re up close, it can be, you know, stripes or ... little things of Mount Fuji or flags, anything. It’s really, really amazing.” —Mark

f. Ginza Willow Dyeing

[33:33–34:32]

• Place-Specific Innovation: Ginza Motoji created a process for dyeing with willow from local prunings, fusing neighborhood history into the kimono’s very fiber.

6. Artisans and the Concept of Living National Treasures

[38:38–43:47]

• Ningen Kokuho: A government title awarded to exceptional masters—Ginza Motoji frequently stocks work by such artists.
• Moriguchi Kunihiko: Noted for “makinori,” a process of resist-paste sprinkling for textured, graphic patterns (influenced by his Parisian art training), rather than the nature motifs of his father.
• Collector Culture: Customers follow favorite artisans' evolving work over years, building collections akin to haute couture.

7. Multi-Step, Multi-Craft Artistry

Notable Crafts Explored:

• Natural dyeing (kusakizome) as exemplified by an artisan who raises his own silkworms and mulberry leaves, grows his own safflower, and performs “beni” pink dyeing using river water and lengthy, meticulous processes ([35:10–37:19]).
• Hammer-finishing jōfu in Miyako Islands for a vinyl-like silkiness ([24:36]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We consider it’s important to personally visit the regions across the country which produce our materials. So we would like to look with our own eyes, listen with our own ears and feel with our own hands so that we can describe the materials in our own words.”
  —Keita Motoji [06:55]

• On Platinum Boy silk:
  “...when you feel or see Platinum Boy, like, it's just, it's completely different. It's like so much brighter and shinier and quite sure. And yeah, it's just really, really special to be able to produce this silk which then we send to artisans and makers all over Japan who make kimonos especially for us with this silk.”
  —Mark McNulty [19:39]

• On the emotional value and provenance of each kimono:
  “...at the end of the bolt, there's usually stamps and then the name of the artisan or the people who made it. So there's all of the provenance is written there. … that's your way of…knowing who made what you're wearing…”
  —Mark McNulty [14:22]

• “You have to see with your own eyes, to listen with your own ears, to be able to say in your own words.”
  —(originally from Kome Motoji, recounted by Mark) [12:23]

• On Edo Komon:
  “...was a way to circumvent these sumptuary laws. So from a distance, it's just a gray, just a plain kimono. But when you look up closely, it can be these like amazing patterns...all done with this really, really tiny hand-cut stencil...”
  —Mark McNulty [32:37]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Keita Motoji’s family, Ginza Motoji origins: 05:07–07:14
• Mark McNulty’s journey & role: 07:48–10:11
• Kimono structure and history: 10:38–11:48
• Significance of engaging directly with artisans: 12:19–14:22
• Fabric provenance & stamps: 14:22–15:06
• Silk decline and Platinum Boy project: 17:32–20:52
• Jōfu weaving & bleaching techniques: 21:30–24:36
• In-store weaving demonstration & ordering: 25:22–28:13
• Oshima Tsumugi mud dyeing: 28:55–30:32
• Edo Komon origins & process: 30:47–32:58
• Natural dyeing with Ginza willow: 33:33–34:32
• Artisan spotlight—natural dye master with pink "beni": 35:10–37:19
• Living National Treasures (ningen kokuho): 38:38–43:14

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Conclusion & What’s Next

• The episode ends with the promise of a follow-up, where Keita and Mark return to explore the contemporary practice of wearing kimono, the types of kimono, and how to shop for them [44:19–45:06].
• Resource Highlight: The Ginza Motoji website and Instagram accounts are recommended for further visuals and insights into the crafts and artisans discussed.
• Cultural Mission: Keita expresses a desire to rejuvenate kimono wear among younger generations and integrate these artisanal garments into modern life.

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For further study:

• Ginza Motoji website: motoji.co.jp
• Instagram: @motoji_ginza, @arkwithak_mcn, @motoji_keita
• Hashtags for episode content: #dressed368, #dressed369

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End of Summary

Transcript

[April Callahan]

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Please enjoy one of our favorite episodes

[April Callahan]

from the Dressed archive of over 500 plus shows. The history of Fashion is a production of dressed media. With over 8 billion people in the world, we all have one thing in common. Every day we all get dressed.

[Dressed Podcast Host]

Welcome to Dress the History of Fashion, a podcast where we explore the who, what, when of why we wear. We are fashion historians and your hosts

[April Callahan]

April Callahan and Cassidy Zachary. Dress listeners. This week we are so excited to bring you not one but two episodes on a subject that you have requested many, many times and that is the art, craft and storytelling aspects of the Japanese kimono and something that we have of course actually covered on the show in the past. It's been a while, but in the summer 2020 we did a two part episode with Anna Jackson, the curator behind the landmark V and A exhibition Kyoto to Catwalk, the first major exhibition on kimono in the uk. Fast forward four years and today we are bringing you an interview with two people intimately connected to the living, practice and craft of kimono in Japan today.

[Dressed Podcast Host]

Keita Motoji is the second generation owner and director of Ginza Motoji, Japan's premier premier specialty kimono company. Founded by his father in Tokyo's ginza district in 1979. After studying at London College of Fashion and gaining international experience in the UK and Paris, Keita returned to Japan to lead the company which is dedicated to preserving age old techniques while integrating kimono into contemporary wardrobes. And Mark McNulty is an Irish transplant who has worked at Ginza Motoji for the past six years. His integral and dynamic role in the company ranges from design and education to Japanese to English translations. Together, Keita and Mark have an encyclopedic knowledge about every aspect of kimono production.

[April Callahan]

And this is not knowledge, trust listeners that they have gained by reading books, but rather by traveling all over Japan to witness firsthand the processes of the mini master sericulturists, dyers and weavers responsible for creating the kimonos they sell in Ginza Motoji's two flagship stores. From the harvesting of the fibers to the weaving, dyeing and painting of the fabric, to the construction and the final fitting process, each and every step of the kimono making process is an art form. And Ginza Motoji is dedicated to telling and celebrating the stories of the makers behind the clothes as much as the garments themselves. So much so that they are known as, quote, the craftspeople of storytelling.

[Dressed Podcast Host]

I love that so much. Yes, maybe somebody will say that about us one day too. But something that we are all going to learn about together today as they take us behind the seams of the kimono. Keita, Mark, welcome to Dressed.

[April Callahan]

Keita, Mark, welcome to Dressed. I'm so excited to talk to you both today.

[Keita Motoji]

Thank you very much.

[Mark McNulty]

Thank you so much. Thanks for having us. We look forward to today and it's

[April Callahan]

a good morning for you because of course you're in Tokyo and I'm in Albuquerque. It's a good evening for me. So this was the time we could make it work with both of our time zones. I'm so pleased for you to join me at the beginning of your day.

[Mark McNulty]

Yeah, it's the morning here. We, we woke up early. We're, we're ready.

[April Callahan]

Keita, I'd love to start with you and I'm hoping you can just tell our listeners and myself a little bit more about Ginza Motoji, starting perhaps with what inspired your father to open the store in 1979?

[Keita Motoji]

Actually, my father, Kome Motoji is originally from Amami Oshima, which is very south of Japan. Just before Okinawa. He moved to Tokyo after finishing high school and dreamed of becoming an athlete. But due to an injury, he had to give up on history at age 21. He felt pretty dangerous and lost. One day he took an old kimono his mother had given to him when he left to Tokyo, belonging to his late father. When he put on a kimono, he felt some message from his late father. You haven't studied at all, so you should work in kimono industry. Then he determined to open the own kimono shop by the A30. He opened the Ginza Motoji in 1979. Then I'm second generation of the company and I took over the business two years ago. We have been producing and selling kimono since 1979. And then to fit the needs of our modern customers. And the kimono that suit that city Tokyo is. We have two specialty stores located in Ginza. Ginza is actually one of the major shopping districts in Tokyo. One is a shop specializing in women's kimono and the other one, Otokono Kimono, which was the first men's kimono shop in Japan, opened in 2002. Our mission at Mizamotoji is to be the bridge between customers and traditional Japanese textiles. We believe we are the craftspeople of storytelling and it is our responsibility to pass a wealth of that knowledge from the kimono creators to the customers. We consider it's important to personally visit the region across the country which produce our materials. So we would like to look with our own eyes, listen with our own ears and feel with our own hands so that we can describe the materials in our own words.

[April Callahan]

Yeah, and I love that, as you mentioned, you're the craftspeople of storytelling and I love that. I mean, we have so much to talk about today and we'll get more into this. But you work directly with all of these artisans and your shop is so important in that you preserve and celebrate the various arts, crafts and craftspeople that are responsible for all of these different age old techniques that go into the production of kimono, which we're going to, like I said, talk about more. But first, Mark, can you please tell us about how you made your way to Ginza Motoji and what your role is there?

[Mark McNulty]

Yeah, of course. So I'm from Ireland originally and then I studied textiles in NCAD in Dublin and then it was always kind of My dream to work within fashion. So I was always planning on going to Paris to do haute couture. But then, yeah, I did some oka tour. I worked in two small companies in Dublin and then after that I planned on going to Paris and then I went with my friend to Tokyo just for a two week holiday. And yeah, two weeks turned into what, six years now, so.

[April Callahan]

And you never left?

[Mark McNulty]

I mean, I went home briefly of course, but I, once I came, I didn't want to go home at all. So yeah, I've been living in Tokyo for five, six years now. And then, yeah, once I came here, the first two weeks I was here, I went into a kimono shop and I just couldn't believe all of the techniques and all of the fabrics and everything that I saw. And it was just like just reading a book or just coming to visit a store isn't enough. I just need to know more about this. And then, yeah, from there I thought, you know, I really want to work in the kimono industry. And then there's a few different Japanese fashion magazines. Like there's a Utsukushi Kimono or Kimono Sanon. They're kind of like, you know, the vogue of kimono magazines. And I often saw the name Ginza Motoji in these magazines. So I was curious and then, yeah, the one day I sent my CV and yeah, they let me in.

[April Callahan]

You and I have spoken previously about this, but you were originally studying haute couture, but either you found the haute couture of Japan because what Ginza Motoji specializes in is the haute couture couture of kimono and which we will of course talk about more as well. And then can you also just talk a little bit? Because I know you play a pivotal role in English translations, which is really incredible for someone like me because I can go to the website and I can read almost all of your Ginza Motoji articles and all of your updates and about all of the kimonos and various processes on the website.

[Mark McNulty]

Yeah, exactly. So Akinzo Moto Jaka do a lot of things, but one of the kind of main things that I do as well as translations. So I think a lot of the time when you read about kimono, it always comes off in a really historical sense or always it just doesn't feel like it's a real thing that you can buy and wear and see. But it's very much like an alive and thriving industry. So I'm lucky that with K Dan, with other staff, we go around the country and we visit different artists and art regions where they make the kimono. And then I get to see that and I get to write that directly in English sometimes. And then translating other texts that we've collected over the years, I think it's really, really important. Like, I mean, I mean I've only translated like what, not even 5% of all of the texts that a company collected over the years. So it's a lot. But it's really, really enjoyable because I just think it's so uncommon to have a lot of these techniques recorded properly in English. And. Yeah, so that's really exciting for me as well.

[April Callahan]

I can personally say thank you all so much for providing that resource because it really makes kimono so accessible to people who can't speak or read Japanese, but who are as fascinated and intrigued by the history, the art and the living and breathing practice of wearing kimono in Japan today. Keita, can you give us a general introduction to kimono? What is it? Maybe a little bit of the history behind it before we dive into the modern day practice?

[Keita Motoji]

Okay. Yes. Kimono have been worn in Japan for hundreds of years. They originally developed from undergarments called kosodei. Kosodei were worn and as a court dress over a thousand years ago. The shape and construction and even the way the kimono is worn hasn't hugely changed throughout hundreds of years of its existence. Kimono are sold in bolts or tamono, a narrow roll of fabric about 38cm wide and 12 meters long. One Tamono makes one Kimono. Timono are always order made for the wearer and are cut into only eight pieces and then sewn by hand to fit the wearer perfectly. The excess fabric is never cut away and is hidden in the vertical and horizontal seams. Kimono can then be passed from person to person and retailer at the feet. There are many rules to the way kimono currently worn now, many of which were codified in the middle of the last century.

[April Callahan]

Amazing. So, as we've spoken to you, central to Genza Motoji's purpose is to celebrate and spotlight the various techniques and artisans who are integral to the making of kimono from start to finish. And not only do you celebrate these people and their crafts, you also, as you mentioned, travel to these various production centers across Japan to witness and learn about these production methods firsthand. And as you both have talked about, you both have done this. Can you talk a little bit more about why this is so significant to the store?

[Mark McNulty]

Yeah, of course. So I think that's One of the really nice things about Ginza Motoji, even just like a staff, but even for the people and the customers who come to our store is that our founder, so like Keita's father, Komi Motoji, he kind of always originally used to say, like, you have to see with your own eyes, to listen with your own ears, to be able to say in your own words. And I think that just comes as part of, you know, as a kimono shop. Our job is to bring kimono to people and show the kimono and explain how it's made. So it's, it's really easy just to read a book or be told something by someone and then just pirate that and say the same thing. But for us, I suppose it's just important to really go and see how things are made and how the techniques are done. And by doing that, I think it just makes it really, really a lot easier to understand. I mean, some of the techniques that are used within kimono you can explain 100 times. Even if you go and see it, you're still like, oh my God, how did they do it? So I think, yeah, that's a really important thing is to first of all just go and see how the things are made so you can tell the customer how the threads are made or how the dyes are made and things like that. And as well as that, because kimono, they're made all over Japan, you know, so there's people all over Japan working and making their kimono. So it's important for us as a retailer to go and like build relationships with these makers as well. Because most of our customers, I mean, we have customers from all over the country, but mainly are living in Tokyo. So, you know, what do people in Tokyo want to wear? So that's kind of our almost responsibility, I suppose, as well as to talk to the people, the weavers and the dyers, and say, why don't you try this color? And sometimes it's that two way communication which is really, really important as well.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. And dress listeners, this interview has pretty much been maybe a year in the making. We've had multiple meetings. You first welcomed me into the store over Zoom. I don't know, it's been months since we first had that initial meeting. But you brought me into the store and you showed me, you know, different types of kimono fabric. And something that really struck me and has really stuck with me is that you showed me how each kimono fabric is stamped with all of these different stamps and basically is the recognition of all of the different makers that had a hand in the making of the production of just that one bolt of kimono fabric. Can you talk a little bit more about those stamps and their significance?

[Mark McNulty]

Yeah, of course. The first thing is when you come to a kimono shop, I think people expect to see kimonos hanging up on hangers. Right. But like Keita said before, so usually kimonos are sold in bolts of fabric. So there's in our store, we don't have any kimonos, there's just bolts of fabric. So you choose each bolt of fabric makes one kimono and then at the end of the bolt there's usually stamps and then the name of the artisan or the people who made it. So there's all of the provenance is written there. So what you do is once you choose your kimono, then that piece is cut off, your kimono is tailored, and then you keep this small piece of fabric with the stamp of the makers and all of those different details there. So that's your way of. Yeah, knowing who made what you're wearing and things like that. So it's really important as well. You know, you have the provenance so you know who made it. And then it's probably tailored within Japan as well. So that's really, really nice too.

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[April Callahan]

I just want to say I don't even think you find that level of precision necessarily in haute couture. So I think that's something really special that you're bringing to each and every one of your garments that makes it that much more special. You mentioned Threads and Dies in terms of understanding each step of the process. And you really do understand each step of the process, from the making of the fibers to the weaving of the fabric and the construction of the kimono, which is just incredible. So I want to take our listeners on a little bit of a journey of the kimono making process, starting with the discussion of the staple fibers in kimono production, one of which is silk. Can you tell us a little bit about the history of silk production in Japan and your role specifically in preserving it into today with your own silk thread?

[Keita Motoji]

Let me speak Japanese and a huge translate.

[Mark McNulty]

So about 100 years ago in Japan there was about 200,000 producers of silk. And then Japan also had a huge export of silk as well as but these days there's only about 160 silk producers left in Japan. And silk used for kimono production is actually imported mainly from China and also from Brazil as well. That's kind of one of the things that Kinza Motoji that we wanted to do is because it's the national custom of Japan as well, you know, and because silk itself used to be such a big industry and doing things within Japan, you have more control over the production of something. So that's what we've been doing. Also in Ginza Motoji is the production of a specific type of silk called Platinum Boy. And Platinum Boy is a silk that is produced solely and completely within Japan as well. So that's also a really important thing that we do in Ginza Motoji.

[April Callahan]

And dress listeners will link to some of these resources because you have fabulous videos showing this process from start to finish. It's something that started in 2007 and after 37 years of research, which is just remarkable. And I think I read an article recently. It's the world's first development of this kind of silk, which is made specifically from the male cocoon. And you've had this Platinum boy project since 2016. So this is really, really incredible what you're doing there, right?

[Mark McNulty]

Yeah. So I think that the, the Platinum Boy, the silk itself is so interesting. So like I said, it's like, you know, we're the only place that makes it with the only place that sells it as well. So the difference between Platinum Boy and like a regular silk, it's obviously silk is white, but when you see Platinum Boy, it's so much wider and the silk threads themselves are like a lot thinner and then they're really, really strong as well. Even under the microscope you can see there is like a huge difference in, compared to regular silk. And the reason it's called Platinum Boy as well is because it's silk made from only the male silkworm silk. And then the reason for that is because the female silkworm has to have babies, has to feed babies, so it has to put a lot of energy into that. And because of that, the silkworm itself is bigger. But because the male silkworm, their only job is to produce silk. So they're really, really small and they have a really, really small mouth. And then because of that they make really, really thin threads. And yeah, so it's really, really incredible to see. So I think what, like six months ago, maybe last year, we went together to one of the producers of Platinum Boy and the people who produced the silk for us and we got to see how it was made and it was so, so cool, like just to see all of the silk and all the process that they'd have to go through to make the silk. And they kind of live in these almost looks like a beehive kind of thing. It's like this big wooden contraption where they're making their cocoons that are constantly rotating to make sure that they come round. And they're constantly in like a temperature controlled environment as well because if it's too warm, they produce silk too fast and then if it's too cold, they produce silk. Yeah, they stop producing silks in the night and the day, when the temperature changes, the silk will stop, start, stop, start. So you get like a bumpy, uneven thread. So I suppose that's why they have the, almost like the aircon on rooks, you know, 24, 7 temperature to make this really amazing silk. And yeah, obviously any silk is Beautiful. But when you feel or see Planet Boy, like, it's just, it's completely different. It's like so much brighter and shinier and quite sure. And yeah, it's just really, really special to be able to produce this silk which then we send to artisans and makers all over Japan who make kimonos especially for us with this silk.

[April Callahan]

And how much platinum boy do you produce every year, would you wager?

[Mark McNulty]

Yeah, so every year we produce between about 200 to 300 bolts of fabric. So that we makes. Yeah, by 200 to 300 kimonos.

[April Callahan]

Wow. And again, just speaking to the art of that is an art form in and of itself and that is just one process of the multi step process that goes into the making of a kimono. And of course you do not deal exclusively in silk kimono. Can you tell us a little bit about the fiber content and unique processes of making jofu fabric? I'm starting with what is jofu.

[Mark McNulty]

Yeah, of course. So there's like I said briefly so like a few minutes ago that you know, kimono in general are silk. So when you think kimono you think silk, but it's always the case. So I'd say yeah, maybe 80% of kimono are silk. And then there's another percentage of that is other textiles such as cotton or jofu in Japanese, which is also called choma. So then this is a textile which is similar to linen, but actually it's from a plant which is related to the nettle family and that's produced in Japan as well. And it's often worn in the summertime for casual kimonos only. So in the past it wasn't always so, but these days it's a more casual summer kimono. The production of jofu is just amazing as well. And there's a few different places all over Japan that you can go where they make jofu, such as Echigo jofu, which is in the north of Japan. And then other than that, it's mainly in the south. So you've got Miyako jofu and the Miyako Islands and then you have Yayama jofu and the Yayama Islands and Noto jofu which is in Kanazawa which is in Ishikawa Prefecture. And then also, well, it's not technically jofu, but it's kind of seen in the same realm, but also bashofu, which is textile made from the banana fiber. So JFU is super interesting. So obviously depending on the place that you go, the production is different. But what they have to do is they have to, so cut down the choma, which is like the plant which it's made from, and then from there they have to pull apart, like the bark. And then that's blow up into really, really thin threads. And then those threads are, like, rolled together to make a continuous thread. And then that's dyed and woven to make the. The tamono or the fabric for the kimono. And then depending on where you go, like, the specific processes are different. Put in Echibojo, Ofu, this is in the area in the north of Japan where it's really, really snowy. And between the production of the thread and then the weaving of the. Of the tamono, it takes almost a year. And because of that, the fabric kind of becomes a little bit grubby. So it's important to clean it and to bleach it. So what they do is they lay the fabric out on the snow and they leave it there for what, about a week in the snow. And by doing that, it leaches the fabric completely cleaned the fabric. And yet one of the unique processes, specifically ichigo, but then also in Yayama, they also do something similar. So in Yayama, what they do is once the fabric is made, they put it in the ocean, and then it's pinned there and left for a few hours. And then it reaches the fabric within the sea. And because around Yayama, which is in the south of Japan, there's lots of coral in the water, and that almost like, fortifies the fabric itself. And just like one of the unique ways of cleaning the fabric just before it comes to the kimono shop. So this technique is called zarashi. So then in the north, it's called yukizarashi. So like snow bleaching, I guess. And then in the south, where it's in the. In the sea, it's called umizarashi. So that's one technique that's also used in the production jofu, which is super, super interesting.

[April Callahan]

Yeah, you showed me images of it. It's pretty incredible to see because it's, again, not something that I certainly would have ever taken into account as a form of textile production, but it's. It. It's really cool.

[Mark McNulty]

Right. Once again, like, everywhere you go, you see there's all these variations of production. And then in Miyako, in the Miyako Islands, one of the things that they do, once the folds of fabric is completely woven, they use this big mallet, and then they hammer it with the mallet all over the fabric for two or three hours. And then by doing that it gives almost like a vinyl texture to the textile because you're pushing the fiber, it almost looks like silk. It just moves completely different. And because it's so thin and so sheer.

[April Callahan]

So you've been speaking about jofu fabric and the spinning and weaving of kimono. Fabric, of course, is an art form in and of itself. And the weaving process is something you even demonstrate in store with a very special loom. Can you tell us about this ongoing weaving project that I think began in 2017?

[Mark McNulty]

So I suppose a lot of kimonos in general are hand woven. And I think one of the most important techniques within kimono is a technical custody. And custody is a technique where you have your thread and you bind the thread, dye it, and then remove the binding. And then by doing that, you leave like a white spot. So then, for example, if you have your warp and your weft, you weave them together and then you create a pattern. And that's kind of something that you find, like I said in like Miyako Joe for like most kimonos all over Japan, casual kimonos specifically, you find this kasuri technique. And yeah, so natiuenka, that's kind of like a really, really important part of kimono textiles. So what they do is a lot of the time is the threads are bound according to a pattern, dyed, and then the threads are separated and then woven by hand. And then by doing that, you have these really, really, really fine warp and weft threads which are dyed obviously in all different colors, but you've got your dyed and undyed parts, and then they're woven together to create the pattern. It's not like a white fabric which is printed, it's threads which are dyed and then woven together. So by doing that, you have like a double sided fabric and it's really, really beautiful in our store. So we also have a loom, which is a loom for Oshimatsumugi, which is where Keita's father is originally from. Oshima, Amami, Oshima, in the south of Japan. And they're famous for a specific type of kimono called oshimatsumugi. And one of the amazing things is the way that it's produced, which is it's woven. One of the reasons that he got the loom to Tokyo was because part of him was also missing the sound of the weaving. Because he said, you know, in Amami, when he grew up there, anywhere you go, you just hear like the shuttle of the loom. Like anywhere you go, people were weaving at home. So part of him, he wanted to bring the loom to Tokyo just for almost for the sound. And then also just because to see how the kimono itself is woven is just incredible. So just to be able to show that to the customers because, you know, we're in Tokyo, so it's like pretty far away from Oshima where the old action's happening. So it's kind of important to bring this to Tokyo to show people how these kimono are woven and produced. Yeah, and. Yeah, and then another thing that we do as well is since we have this lube in the store in our shop, and then we actually had a weaver there as well. So the weaver comes in and then weaves, you know, all day and then obviously everybody can see that. But also what you can do is you can order a kimono so you can choose a pattern and then weaver weaves the kimono for you. So I mean, it takes how long? Two months, maybe, maybe six months? Yeah, maybe. So I mean, like depending on the pattern, it can take so, so long because it's just so incredibly fine, the weaving. But what they do is, you know, you can order a kimono, they can leave it there for you in store. You kind of need to go in and almost like check the progress of the weaving. And then it's really, really special because, you know, you got to, you can see right before you the fabric being woven, then when it's finished, it's done. And then you get to wear this really, really special kimono that had this like period of a few months where it was just being produced especially for you. So that's really, really nice for the customers as well. And I think that's something that's quite popular to do too.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. And you're so generous with your Instagram accounts with sharing a lot of these processes, which is so cool. I think there was a video that was posted just a couple days ago that showed that in store weaving and just the fine amount of detail, I mean, so you're talking about Kasuri, which is also known as Ecot, of course, and that type of pre woven dyeing of the threads. And the dyeing of the threads can be the most minutest of details, which is just amazing when you see it happening in person before your eyes. It's incredible that they are able to match the threads and produce this woven textile. Can you talk a little bit about the mud dyeing aspect of that textile production specifically?

[Mark McNulty]

Of course, yeah. So I mean, the thing about Oshima, so the island Oshima, where they produce Oshima Tsumugi silk is. I mean, it's been produced in Umami for over a thousand years. So what they do in a me is once the threads are bound and then they're dyed. Traditionally this would have been done by hand, but now it's actually, it's bound on a separate loom with cotton threads and then dyed, producing the kasuri threads. But now the threads themselves, they're dyed in the mud. So that's kind of the really incredible thing about it. Also in kimono, something really important is a thing called kotakizome or like natural dyes or dyes using plants and trees and things like that. But in a mommy, it's dyed using mud, traditional technique that they've used for over like hundreds of years. The reason that they use mud is because in a mami, the mud is really, really iron rich. And then they also use another dye from a tree called the tetigi tree, which is kind of like a really, really red bark and then that has tannins. So once you dye the, the silk threads in both the mud and then the taejigi dye, which is red with the tannin, it creates like a chemical reaction which turns the fabric a really dark black. And then they're dyed within both of these dyes like about 80, 100 times. And that produces this really, really, really dark black silk. So specifically a kimono. In Amami, Oshima, they're famous for this mud dyeing technique and it's a really, really coveted kind of kimono as well. Because it's not a synthetic dye. Even historically, even in Europe, you know, like black dye wasn't easy to come about. But that's been what Amami has been well known for for so long is this really beautiful black color because it's naturally dyed as well. It's like a really, really dark black. But it, it looks really nice when it's worn because it's not harsh. It's like a, like a brown black, but it's a soft black. So it looks really, really nice when you're wearing it.

[April Callahan]

Yeah, it's absolutely beautiful. And while we're on the subject of delicate and minute textile patterns, can you talk about Edo Komon and what it is and maybe a little bit about its fascinating origin story in the Edo period.

[Mark McNulty]

Edo Komon is a technique that is really, really popular in Japan. And formality wise, it comes in, in like the semi formal, you can kind of wear casually and you can wear a little bit more formally. But the technique itself is really, really unique because you first of all have your white fabric and then it's dyed with a stencil. So the stencils themselves or the katagami, they're cut by hand by an artisan. And these are called ise katagami. So they're only about like 10cm by 30cm, like 35cm wide. So they're like really, really small. And then what the artist does is they place the hand cut stencil on the fabric and then they put nori, which is kind of like a resist paste, and then they remove the stencil and then add the stencil again. A bolt of fabric is 12 meters long. They have to put this tiny stencil over and over again, what, over a hundred times, and then putting the nori or like the resist paste. And then once the nori is dry, what they do is then they add the color afterwards. So it's this technique where they have this really, really fine, fine pattern that from a distance it doesn't look like anything. But when you're up close, it can be, you know, stripes or it can be sami pomon, which is like a shark skin pattern. Anything you can imagine, really. Like some foxes, they're kind of like auspicious patterns or little things of Mount Fuji or flags, anything. It's really, really amazing. It's really cool technique. So in the 17th century, so like the Edo period, there were sumptuary laws. And then these sumptuary laws banned people from wearing flashy or overly flashy clothes. So the samurai, they were originally really, really flashy and really, really fashionable. And they also used to wear really flashy clothes. But because of these sumptuary laws, they had to stop. So pattern like katai zome or using kind of stencils to dye fabrics had been used in Japan for a long time. But due to these sumptuary laws, you know, people couldn't be too flashy anymore. So the patterns themselves had to shrink down and become way, way smaller. So that was like a way to circumvent these sumptuary laws. So what people would do is from a distance you just see like it's just a gray, just a brand kimono. But when you look up closely, it can be like these like amazing patterns. Like sometimes simple patterns like stripes or samikomon, which is sharkskin pattern, or you know, any kind of pattern you can imagine can be done in Edo common. So it's just done with this really, really, really tiny hand cut stencils and then dyed onto the textile directly.

[April Callahan]

Amazing. And the amount of precision and like you said, from far away, from even a short distance, you can't see. But once you get up close, it's pretty remarkable the, the art and craftsmanship that go into the production of that stencil textile. So nothing really embodies the spirit of Genza Motoji's commitment to craftsmanship quite like Genza willow dying. Can you tell us about the inspiration behind this practice which is really in many ways at the heart of your company?

[Mark McNulty]

Yeah, of course. So I think within kimono there's a thing, like I said briefly before, called Kutake Dome. And Kutake Dome is technique, which was the main technique, I suppose, to dye threads until what, about 150 years ago when aniline dyes came in. But yeah, so it's kind of something that's still kind of prized within kimono today. So using different plants or different materials to dye the threads a color. A lot of the different artisans that we have in our store, they produce kimono using all of these different natural dye. And then I suppose one day, so our Keita's father, Koume, he was in Genda, he was wondering, you know, what can he produced that's like original, the Ginza. Ginza is also really, really well known for yanagi or willow. He was like, I wonder if I can dye kimono with willow. And then he realized that Chuokus, like the county council, they were cutting down the willows and then throwing them away. So then what he did is he got the willow from the council and then he started using that to create dye to make kimono.

[April Callahan]

And I want to switch gears to talking about some of the artisans. And I think a good segue is Keita. Just looking at your Instagram, which I follow your personal Instagram, which is just incredible. You're very generous with sharing kind of a lot of behind the scenes videos and images that go into the process of kimono making. You had these three images, I think it was last month. You had these purple, yellow and pink threads that are drying in the snow. And then there's this video of this man dyeing them like in the river. Can you tell me a little bit more about what I'm looking at and what that process is?

[Mark McNulty]

So I think what you're talking about. So there's, it's amazing, right? Like just the pink, when you open, you see the picture that just all you see is the pink, right? So yeah, so that's by an artist called an artisan called Yamagi Shikoichi and he's a really, really amazing artist. So he makes his kimono like completely from scratch. And when I say from scratch, I mean like from scratch. He uses his own silkworms, right? So you know, that's where it begins. But actually he also raises his own kuatanate, Mulberry. Mulberry, yeah. So he also raises his own mulberry leaves where, which he uses to feed his silkworms. And then he produces the silk and then that silk, he spins himself into silk thread. And then he also cultivates all of these different plants to be used into making his natural dyes. And then one of his most famous dyes is this pink color which is so coveted. And it's a color that was like traditionally in Japan really, really popular for a really long time. But it's really, really difficult to produce. So it's called Benny. So it's produced from the safflower. So you have to pinch the inside of the flower to remove the middle part of the flour. So what they do is they have to harvest the safflower and then that's made into a thing called beni mochi. So it's like these little kind of patties and then that's then fermented. And then with that they use it to make the pink dye. And then that dye is used to dye the hand spun threads to go this pink color. And then he, what he does is in the morning at about what, four or five o', clock, he dyes the threads in like the really, really cold water. So if you see the pictures, it's amazing. It's a quiet background and he's dyeing these pink threads in the water and then that creates this like really, really vibrant pink. But to create the really vibrant pink, you know, he doesn't just dye it once, he dies at once, two, three, four times, five times, sometimes even 20 times once a year for the course of a few years. And then by doing that you kind of get this really, really bright pink threads which create like a really, really stunning kimono. And even though it is like a bright pink, when you see people wearing these kimono, they're just incredible because they just have like a really beautiful softness to them. They look really, really nice on as well. And I think that's one of the things about natural dye or kusakizome is that when you see someone wearing kusakizome kimono, it just looks so beautiful because it's like a really soft natural color.

[Avery Trufelman]

In a time when the United States military is being sent into American cities. When civilians and soldiers are being p against each other. It's strange that we've never dressed more alike. We all wear performance clothes. We all wear outdoor clothes, whether or not we're outside civilians and soldiers. I'm Avery Trufelman. I make a podcast about clothing called Articles of Interest. And in this new season, I trace the interwoven histories of the military and the outdoor industry and how they built each other. Find articles of interest wherever you get your podcasts. And the season is called Gear.

[April Callahan]

And then it's that much more special because, you know, the care and the craftsmanship and the heart that has gone into the making of the clothing you're wearing from the very beginning, which is just so incredibly special. And one of the reasons, of course, I wanted to talk to you all, because from the start to the finish of these garments and then them going out into the world, and this is just a really, really special process that is at the heart of your company. And you also feature numerous artists and designers, many of whom have had the distinction of being celebrated as living national treasures. Can you tell us what is a living national treasure? And then maybe tell us about a couple of these artists and what distinguishes their work?

[Mark McNulty]

Yeah, of course. So in Kinzamo Toju, we're really lucky that we have work from all different artists from all over Japan. And then also we're so lucky as well that we have work from Living National Treasures as well. So in Japanese called ningen kokubo. And then these living national treasures, it's like a title that's awarded by the government. You become a ningen koku, or a national treasure of a certain technique. So we have a few different kind of relationships and, like, different items from different artists in our store. And then some of those artists include Moriguchi Kunishko and Matsubara Nobuo and many, many other, many, many more artists. These artists are given this title because they're just so incredible in their field in what they make. So one specific artist that is really, really amazing kimono is Moriguchi Kunishiko. So he's an artisan from Kyoto. So he originally studied graphic design in Paris in the 1960s, and then from there he was friends with an artist called Balthus, who I don't know, you probably heard of, but then I think Balthus encouraged him to go back to Japan and said, you should go back and join your family business, which is dying kimono. The man, Moriguchi Kunishiko, his father, who is Moriguchi Kako, was also a ninke kuko or a living national treasurer. So then when he went back to Japan, he went to the workshop and he began to work with his father in the production of kimono. So he's really, really famous for a technique called makinori. So he creates kimono with a technique called Y. So yen is a technique which has been used in Japan for a few hundred years, since the 17th century. And it's a technique of resist dyeing, where you have almost like a small piping bag which is used to pipe resist onto the fabric. And then once that resist is placed, you can add your colors in by hand afterwards. He's really, really famous for this technique of usen. But then also he uses another technique which is really unique, which is called makinori. So what he does is he gets some of this nori, so this resist paste, and when it's dried, he sprinkles it onto the fabric and then adds the color on after that. And by doing that, it has this like mottled effect. So it's a really, really beautiful way of adding texture to the silk. And then he's also just really well known for making these. Like, he studied graphic design in Paris in the 60s. So he just had these. Like, his kimonos are amazing. They just have this really graphic approach. And I think when you think of kimono, you probably think of like flowers and plants and really natural things. But, you know, his work is just really, really cool and graphic because the kimono something that wrapped to be worn. So like, he creates these patterns that just wrap the whole way around the body as well. So his kimono are really, really amazing and really, really coveted as well. And even if you come to Tokyo, if you go to Mitsukoshi department store, you can even see that the bags that they use, the design on their bag is actually taken from one of his kimonos. So, yeah, I think, you know, even if you come to Japan, you've definitely seen one of his designs somewhere.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. And I mean, he said graphic and geometric. And I think in the. The article I read that's on your website, you talked about how his father based his. His work on the beauty of nature. Like you said, flowers and birds. And then his work is just this graphic expression of different patterns and shapes that's influenced by the pop art movement in Paris and various influences. But they're so stunning and maybe a little unexpected. If you're not familiar with his work, because there's just absolutely beautiful and dress listeners, I'm going to post as many images as they will let me to accompany this episode because so much of what we're talking about just has to be seen. You know, it's one thing for us, of course, to talk about it, but then to actually see, see all of this art in, in fabric form is just truly something else. Is there any other national living treasures that you wanted to highlight? I thought it was really interesting because in our correspondence again, I think it's been like a year, but you would email me every couple months and say, okay, we have another, another living national treasure, because so and so was just made a national treasure, which I think is also very cool because it's this living, breathing practice that is constantly evolving.

[Mark McNulty]

Right? Yeah, I thought that was so fun. I think one day I was about to email you and then we got this news that one of the artists from a technical, Nagaita Chirogata called Matsubara Nobuo, he'd just been announced that he'd be awarded this title of Minken Kokoho. And we were like, oh my God, I was emailing us. And by the way, we have a new living national pressure. So like you said, like, it's, it's still going and it's. That's a really exciting thing. That's a living, breathing industry where, you know, these things keep developing, which is really, really cool. Yeah, yeah.

[April Callahan]

And just again, talking about that comparison with the Parisian haute couture, these designers have their own followings. People collect these designers. As you and I have spoken in previous conversations, people follow these designers, you know, commission works from these designers. So they have a huge following as well.

[Mark McNulty]

People, they kind of have their collections of kimonos. And then there are some people, they just love one specific artist. And anytime somebody comes into the shop, they're like, call me straight away, please. And it's really interesting to see as well, because even for me, like I haven't been in the company for that long, but sometimes you see customers who've been coming and they've been following an artist for five, 10 years and then they say, oh, his work's really different this time, or this time he's using these colors. But the last time he had an exhibition, all of his work was this kind of way. So it's really interesting to see how the artists develop and then how the customers appreciate that. And yeah, some of these are die hard fans of people who just absolutely love one specific artist and love collecting their work too.

[April Callahan]

Yeah, it's all so fascinating and so incredible. And as I said, dress listeners, I'm going to post many, many images and hopefully reels to accompany this week's episode. And that concludes our conversation for today. Keita and Mark are going to be back with us on Friday to discuss more detail about the kimono making and shopping process specifically. So thank you, Keita and Mark for joining us today.

[Dressed Podcast Host]

Keita, Mark, thank you so much for taking us behind the scenes of the kimonos at Ginza Motoji to meet some of the many artisans and designers responsible for their creation.

[April Callahan]

Andres listeners, there is so much more where that came from. The Ginza Motoji website, which we will of course link to in our show notes, is a wealth of information in both English and Japanese with articles on everything from the history and contemporary practice of various kimono crafts to how to shop for a kimono. And this latter subject is actually something that we will talk about on part two of this episode when Keita and Mark join us to talk about the contemporary practice of wearing kimono, including what the different types of kimonos are and what occasions they are worn for. So part and parcel to Keita's mission at Ginza Motoji is to rejuvenate the cultural stature of kimonos and to bring them back into everyday wear, especially for younger generations. And as we will learn on Friday, both he and Mark wear kimonos in their daily lives.

[Dressed Podcast Host]

Until then, dress listeners, may you consider the art, craft and storytelling of kimono. Next time you get dressed, be sure and check out Ginza Motoji's website at Motoji that's m o t o j I.co.jp and the company's Instagram Inzamotoji. You can also follow along on Mark's Instagram arkwithak, MCN and Keita's Instagram Atamotoji. Keita's Instagram is full of the most wonderful videos taking you into various kimono artistic processes, many of which we will share with you on our Instagram this week, which is dressedpodcast. As always, to find the Instagram content specifically linked to this week's episode episodes, you can check out the hashtags dressed368 and dressed369.

[April Callahan]

And remember, we always love hearing from

[Cassidy Zachary]

you, so if you'd like to write to us, you can do so@hello dressedhistory.com dressedhistory.com is also our website where you can sign up for our monthly newsletter, our in person tours and online fashion history courses. And you can check out whatever else we have up our finely tailored sleeves.

[Dressed Podcast Host]

We get so many questions from you all about our recommendations for fashion history books. So if you are interested you can always find a link in our show Notes to our Bookshop Bookshelf. So that address is bookshop.org shop dressed and there you can find over 150 of our favorite fashion history titles and

[Cassidy Zachary]

do you love Dressed but want to skip the ads? You can now sign up for ad free listening with any tier on our Dressed History Patreon.

[Dressed Podcast Host]

We are also excited to now be part of the Airwave Network and their premium ad free history subscription Airwave History plus available on Apple Podcasts. The subscription brings dress and also 27 other popular history podcasts ad free for just $5.99 per month. More information on Patreon and Airwave is available at the link in our bio.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Thank you as always for tuning in and more Dressed coming your way very soon. The history of Fashion is a production of Dressed Media.

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