The Art of Kimono with Keita Motoji and Mark McNulty of Ginza Motoji, Part II (Dressed Classic)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dressed – The Art of Kimono with Keita Motoji and Mark McNulty of Ginza Motoji, Part II (Dressed Classic)

Date: June 13, 2026
Hosts: April Callahan & Cassidy Zachary
Guests: Keita Motoji & Mark McNulty (Ginza Motoji, Tokyo)
Theme: Exploring the art, tradition, and future of kimono—the process of buying, wearing, and sustaining this living garment in modern Japan.

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Episode Overview

Part II of Dressed’s deep dive into kimono, featuring Keita Motoji (second-generation leader of Ginza Motoji, a premier kimono purveyor in Tokyo) and Mark McNulty (Ginza Motoji team member and kimono cultural ambassador). The episode demystifies the kimono purchasing process, explores its symbolic meaning, sustainable construction, and evolving relevance among younger generations in Japan—illuminating how tradition and innovation go hand-in-hand.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Kimono Shopping Experience at Ginza Motoji

[03:01 – 05:55]

• Kimono at Ginza Motoji is not sold pre-made; customers participate in a custom process.
  • Customers select fabric bolts and obi (sash), which are laid out and draped for visualization.
  • "Because they're just a bolt of fabric, you can't just throw it on like in a changing room…one of the staff will then drape the fabric on you and make the shape of the kimono." – Mark McNulty, [03:55]
• Detailed personal measurements are taken, especially the yuki (sleeve length).
• Garments are hand-sewn by Japanese tailors using traditional techniques—typically eight pieces of cloth, all seams designed to retain excess fabric for future adjustments.
• Finished kimono are presented in a washi (Japanese paper) envelope called a tatoshi, emphasizing ceremony and anticipation in receiving the garment.

2. Sustainability & Longevity Built Into Kimono

[05:55 – 07:11]

• Entirety of the fabric bolt is utilized; "no tailoring part" and minimal waste due to the rectangular construction.
• Seams conceal extra fabric, allowing for kimonos to be retailored for different wearers or sizes.
  • "My first haori…I wore for two or three years, and then it got a bit raggedy…sent it back to the tailor, they took it all apart, re-sewed it…and now I have a perfectly new sleeve." – Mark McNulty, [06:39]
• Kimono can be disassembled and reassembled over generations, reflecting an inherently eco-friendly ethos.

3. Varieties, Formalities, and Gender Differences in Kimono

[07:11 – 11:02]

• Numerous types exist, distinguished by use-case (casual vs. formal), technique (woven, dyed, embroidered), and decoration.
• Gender styles are similar in silhouette (the "T" shape), but differ in sleeve length, obi width, and historical conventions.
  • "Women's kimono are a little bit longer, and when they're worn, there's a thing called ohashiori—a fold made when pulling up the kimono." – Mark McNulty, [07:51]
  • Unmarried women often have longer sleeves (furisode), symbolizing youth and status, particularly at milestone ceremonies like seijin shiki (coming of age).
• Discussion of artisans specializing in obis versus kimonos, and differences in weaving or dyeing techniques signaling formality.

4. Symbolic Motifs & Family Crests

[13:13 – 15:43]

• Motifs on kimono nearly always carry meaning; for example, shochikubai ("three friends of winter": plum, bamboo, pine) is a symbol of resilience and good fortune.
  • "Almost every pattern you see in kimono, there’s usually some kind of meaning behind it." – Mark McNulty, [13:21]
• Placement and number of family crests (mon) on a kimono indicate formality; up to five can be displayed.
  • "If you have one [crests], it’s formal. If you have three, it’s a little bit more formal, and if you’ve got five, it’s very formal." – Mark McNulty, [14:45]
  • Keita describes the sagari fuji (wisteria) crest personal to his family, emphasizing heritage.

5. Kimono as a Living Practice Today

[15:43 – 17:57]

• Kimono are not relegated to ceremonies—many choose to wear them casually.
• The pandemic led to a steep decline in kimono use, but a resurgence is now evident, with more young people becoming interested.
  • "People just love coming to wear kimono, and they go out wearing kimono…and there’s a kind of sharing element…people use their obi from their mother." – Mark McNulty, [16:49]
• Kimono’s transparency—the ability to know who wove, dyed, and tailored it, and its multi-generational reuse—offers an antidote to fast fashion.

6. The Future of Ginza Motoji & Kimono Tradition

[17:57 – 19:51]

• Ginza Motoji continues to innovate with natural dye projects—such as dyeing silk with mud from Tokyo's Ginza district.
  • "Keita was interested to know…if we were to dye with the mud of Ginza, what color would that produce? So that’s something we’re looking into at the moment." – Mark McNulty, [18:30]
• Concern for artisan technique survival as older craftsmen retire, but optimism as more young people enter the kimono and silk industries.
  • "It just shows this is an industry people want to work in…and it’s important to be raising the next generation." – Mark McNulty, [19:49]

7. Celebrating and Sustaining Kimono Craft

[20:28 – 21:17]

• Keita and Mark exemplify a new generation committed to artisan storytelling and education, through workshops and artist talks.
• The company philosophy: “We wish to bring joy to the makers and to the customers. We believe by doing this, we can bring kimono into the future with us.” – Ginza Motoji website, quoted by April Callahan, [21:03]

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Notable Quotes

• “One of the cool things about kimono is that…you have your own family crest, which is really nice as well.” – Mark McNulty, [15:17]
• “You couldn’t do that, your dress from the 1980s, and people would kind of be like, ‘weird’—[but with kimono] that’s one of the really cool things.” – Mark McNulty, [17:28]
• “We are the beating heart of this company…dedication to artisan and craft uplift is something that undoubtedly will ensure Ginza Motoji’s continued success.” – April Callahan, [20:33]

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Memorable Moments & Timestamps

• [03:55]– Experience of custom kimono selection and fitting.
• [06:39]– Story of repairing and flipping a kimono sleeve, showing built-in circularity.
• [13:21]– Meaning behind the shochikubai motif.
• [14:41]– Use and significance of family crests (mon) in formal kimono.
• [16:10 – 17:57]– Reflections on the pandemic, generational hand-me-downs, and kimono value for youth.
• [18:30]– Upcoming Ginza Motoji project: dyeing silk with Ginza district mud.

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Closing Thoughts

The episode concludes by emphasizing the importance of honoring clothing makers and the interconnectedness of wearer, artisan, and tradition. Keita and Mark’s dedication to craft ensures that the kimono not only survives, but thrives—adapted by new hands and for new generations.

Listeners are invited to continue learning via Ginza Motoji's website and social media, and are reminded of the joy, heritage, and sustainability embedded in every kimono.

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For additional resources and visual content:

• Ginza Motoji website: Motoji.co.jp
• Instagram: @keitamotoji, @arkwithak, @motoji.co, @dressed_podcast

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Transcript

[April Callahan]

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[Cassidy Zachary]

enjoy one of our favourite episodes from the Dressed archive of over 500 plus shows.

[April Callahan]

The history of Fashion is a production of dressed media. With over 8 billion people in the world, we all have one thing in common. Every day we all get dressed.

[Dressed Podcast Host (Narrator)]

Welcome to Dressed the History of Fashion, a podcast where we explore the who, what, when of why we wear. We are fashion historians and your hosts, April Callahan and Cassidy Zachary.

[April Callahan]

Welcome Dress listeners to part two of

[Cassidy Zachary]

our conversation with Keita Motoji and Mark McNulty of Ginza Motoji, Japan's premier specialty

[April Callahan]

kimono purveyor and a company that, as

[Cassidy Zachary]

we learned on Wednesday, comes with a lot of heart.

[April Callahan]

And that is because this company is so dedicated to preserving and celebrating the mini makers and age old processes responsible for the living and breathing art form and practice of kimono.

[Dressed Podcast Host (Narrator)]

Today, Keita and Mark are back to take us into the Ginza Moto Ji shop to share with us the process of purchasing a kimono. So we will also learn about the different types of kimono and the continued significance of kimono in Japan today, especially as it relates to a new generation of wearers, of which Keita and Mark are a part of. Keita and Mark, thank you for joining us again.

[April Callahan]

Welcome back to dress. Keita and Mark.

[Keita Motoji or Mark McNulty]

Hi. Thank you. Thanks for helping us together.

[Dressed Podcast Host (Narrator)]

Yeah.

[April Callahan]

So on Wednesday, we talked about the process of creating the kimono that you feature at Kenzo Matoji from start to finish. And today I want to talk a little bit more about the kimono making and buying process, because so many of us can't just jump on a plane, even though in our fantasy world, we. We would and come visit Genza Motoji. For those of us who can just imagine what it would be like to be a customer at your store, I'm hoping you can help us with that. How does a kimono shop work? Because just as the making of the fabric from start to finish is a very special process, so is the turning of that fabric into a kimono. Can you tell us about what that experience would be like for a customer in your store?

[Keita Motoji or Mark McNulty]

Yeah, of course. So I think that's kind of the interesting thing about kimono. So I think I said briefly before, there's no kimono in their made form in the shop. So what usually happens is a customer comes into the store, and then they say, okay, I want a kimono for this event, or I want. I'm looking for this artist. Or they come in and they kind of tell us what they want, and then we show them what we have. And then once you look through all the kimono, then we have the obi as well. So you can choose the obi. And then because they're all bulbs of fabrics, you lay them down and take a look at them all. And then you say, okay, I'm clicking this one or this one. And because they're just a bulge of fabric, you can't just, like, twist, throw it on and like. Like in a changing room, Right. So what you do is you come up onto kind of. We have like a little, like a dressing area, I suppose. And then the one of the staff will then drape the fabric on you and make the shape of the kimono. When you look in the mirror, it looks like you're wearing the kimono, which is really, really cool. And then by doing that, you can see. Sometimes people see you come on. I love that. And then they try it on, they go, no, I don't want that at all. And then sometimes they don't they're like, I don't really like this one, but then they put it on. When you try something on, it completely changes how it looks. First of all, that's how you kind of try on a kimono as well. And then after that you have, like your kimono accessories because of those different things that you need. And then what happens is then once you say, okay, let's do it, I'm going to go for this kimono. Then our staff will then measure you and they take all of your measurements. And one specific measurement which is important is called the uk, which is like the arm length, because the kimono is like a T shape. So it's really, really important for your UKI or the sleeve length to be correct. And then so we take all the measurements and then that's sent off to the tailor. And then all of the tailors that we use are all in Japan. So we send your fabric and then your measurements to the tailor. And then the fabric is, like I said, cut up into just, what, eight pieces to make one kimono, and then all of the excess fabric is tucked away in the seams, and then that's all hand sewn to create the kimono from the start to finish. Takes like 30, 40 days to make the kimono. And then once it's finished, it comes back to the store, and then once the customer comes back to collect their kimono, it comes like this big paper envelope which is called like a tatoshi, and it's about 1 meter long, and it's got your big kimonos all folded up inside this washi envelope. And once you open it up, you've got your kimono there laid and it looks really, really beautiful. It's really exciting when you get a new kimono because it comes in this really nice big envelope. Then the last thing you have to do is just take out the basting threads and then it's ready to wear. So, yeah, that's how kimono works from start to finish.

[April Callahan]

And this is an inherently sustainable process, as kimono production has always been, because fabric is so valuable. Right. And there's no tailoring part. There's. It's using the entire width of the fabric and the entire length of the fabric to create this garment. And you talked about the extra fabric being tucked into the seams. Can you talk about the purpose of that?

[Keita Motoji or Mark McNulty]

Yeah, exactly. So, like I said, the kimono is cut into a few pieces and that's all tailored together, and then all of the excess fabric is hidden within the seams. So the reason for that is that if you decide to give your kimono to somebody else, it can be retailered and little bit larger, a little bit smaller. Or, for example, like my first howdy that I got made, which is like a kimono jacket I wore for what, two or three years, and then it finally got a bit raggedy at the end of the sleeve, so I got. I sent it back to the tailor, they took it all apart, resold it for me, but then they put the sleeve on back to front. So now that the ragged part was, like, tucked inside. And then I've got like a perfectly new sleeve so it looks completely brand new, there's just like whole idea of reuse. And because the kimono is all made sewn by hand, running stitch, it can be completely deconstructed and reconstructed again, like I said. So if you wanted to make your sleeves longer or shorter or you wanted to, you get, like kimono from your mother or your grandmother, you can always be retailered to fit you perfectly, which is really, really nice.

[April Callahan]

And for those of us who are not familiar or have seen the differences in kimono but might not know their significance, can you tell us about the different types of kimonos and the different formalities involved? And it's different by gender, too, for men, women and children.

[Keita Motoji or Mark McNulty]

Yeah, so there's a. Yeah, so there's so many different types of kimono. And I think that's kind of one of the difficulties, I suppose, for many people is understanding all of these different formalities where the kimono lies. So more or less, though, the shape between men and women is pretty much the same. Just the way that it's worn is different. So one of the main differences between men and women's kimono is that women's kimono are actually a little bit. Bit longer. And then when they're worn, there's a thing called ohashiori, which has to be made. So when you put the kimono on, it's like pooling on the ground for women. And that's pulled up, so it's just reaching your feet or your ankles, and then it's made a big fold in the middle and then that folded. Historical remnant. Right. So traditionally, wealthier women, when they would be at home, they would have their kimono trailing on the ground, and when they go outside, they'd pull it up and hold it in their hand. But then that developed, and then people would tie that, and then that's where the ohashiori comes from. And then another thing as well, for women's Kimono is the. The part where the sleeve attaches to the body is smaller than men's, and then this side of the body and then the inside of the sleeve is actually open. And then the reason for that is once, like hundreds, hundreds of years ago, the obi was way lower for women. But then as the obi started to get worn higher and higher and higher, they had to flip the sleeves and then to make way for the slowly growing size of the ob. So that's one of the main differences between men and women's kimono, like construction wise. And then also usually women, their obi is a lot wider than men, about two or three times the width. And then that usually is made into a big knot in the back called a taiko. And there's loads of different ties as well, but that's one of the main ones.

[April Callahan]

I'm assuming you work with OB artisans as well, right?

[Keita Motoji or Mark McNulty]

Yeah. So, I mean, most of the. It depends on the artisan because, you know, each person's different. But some artists just make obi, some just make kimono, and many make both as well. Yeah. And then I suppose within kimono, it's also different as well for the techniques that are used. So for example, we spoke of a custody or like kimono, where the fabric is woven to create a pattern. They're usually considered casual. And after that, for example, we spoke of Edo Komon, that between casual and formal. And then when you use techniques like yuuzen for women, that's usually seen as a more formal technique. So that's usually used in specific kimono called maybe ho monkey. And then like a whole monkey is kind of what you would wear, like a more formal or a more dressy event.

[April Callahan]

Do you talk about the different lengths and sleeve for women?

[Keita Motoji or Mark McNulty]

Yeah. So nowadays, in general kimono, they're usually the sleeve is about 50 centimeters. I only know the Japanese measurement. So we have to use a different measurement for kimono. So it's called shaku. Shaku. I only know the Japanese measurement, but yeah. What, 50 centimeters? Yeah, yeah. So the kimono sleeve in general now is about 50 centimeters. If you're a little bit taller, some people have their sleeves tailored longer, and if you're a little bit shorter, you can have them shorter. But in General, they're about 50 centimeters in length. But traditionally, for younger women or unmarried women, their sleeves would be a lot longer. And then that's something that you can still see today in a type of kimono called Pretty soldier, which is like the most formal kimono that women can wear when they're, you know, unmarried. And then often you see this on seijin shiki, which is like the coming of age day in Japan, which is every, every year in January. So when boys and girls, when they turn what, 20? So it's like they're coming of age days. So girls wear these kimono with these like really, really amazing kimono with like really, really fine patterns and then with the really, really long sleeves. And then traditionally once a woman would get married, she would have her sleeves cut and then they'd be shorter. But nowadays I think it's not really not about whether you're married or not. It's just once you're kind of in your 20s, you just have shorter sleeves.

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[April Callahan]

And is there any significance with motifs in particular? Are there any particular motifs that are used to signify anything specific?

[Keita Motoji or Mark McNulty]

I mean, almost every pattern you see in kimono, there's usually some kind of meaning behind it. So there's a pattern called shochikubai, which you can often see on kimono. So for example, shochikubai means plum, bamboo and pine tree. So it's these three patterns that you often see together. And then the reason is it's because the plum kind of represents like FMF temporariness. Yeah. So this pattern is seen as like a kind of a pattern of good luck, I suppose. And it's also called like the three friends of winter in English, if you actually look it up. So kind of like really, really good look pattern. So you can see this on often informal kimono, I suppose as well. So you might see that on sage nishiki or on formal kimonos maybe you might see someone wearing at a wedding or often even just for kind of dressier kimonos that people might wear at the end of the year for the new year holidays in Japan as well.

[April Callahan]

And I'd love if you could talk a little bit about the significance of the family crest, because I know, I read an article about keita that you very special formal kimono for your inauguration as CEO a couple years ago. And there's a fantastic article on your website about that. Can you talk about that kimono and the significance of the family crest?

[Keita Motoji or Mark McNulty]

In kimono there's a thing called M. So it's like your family crest and then you can have between one and five crests, your kimono. So if you have one, it's formal. If you've got three, it's a little bit more formal. And then if you've got five, it's very formal. So nowadays usually you just see one or five. So there's a type of kimono called anomonsuki. So it's like kimono with mom. And that's what you wear for formal events. So the most formal kimono for men would be a kuromonski. So it's a black monsky kimono. So it's a completely black kimono with five family crests. And then each family has their own family crest and then that's dyed into the kimono as well. Yeah. So, for example, Keita, his family have their own crest, which is sagari fuji in Japanese wisteria, which is kind of like falling down. But it's really, really nice because each family has their own crest. I don't have one. So that's what I. When I have to get, like, formal kimono made. Like, maybe I could put my Irish family crest in. But it's one of the cool things about kimono is that, you know, you have your own family crest, which is really nice as well.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. And you can personalize it in that way. Well, you segued right into my next question, which is about the significance and wearing of kimono today because it is a historic and traditional garment. But as clearly evidenced by Ginza, Motoji and both of you, it is very much a living practice and garment today. Can you talk about if you wear kimono in your daily lives and kind of about the current state of kimono?

[Keita Motoji or Mark McNulty]

So I think a lot of the time, like, when you think of kimono, people think it's just this formal thing. And yeah, of course, people do wear kimono formally, but it's also worn casually as well. I think that's like, most of our customers, really, they just wear kimono because they just love wearing kimonos. So we sell a huge amount of casual kimono as well. So I think especially during Corona, because people were leaving the house less and less, Less people were wearing kimono, and then because of that, less people were wearing kimono. And then a lot of people who used to wear kimono just completely stopped at that stage. So that was a scary time within the industry because people aren't buying kimono. People who make them, you know, people, it's hard for them to continue to make a living. But, yeah, since Corona, we're really, really lucky that people have just come back to it again. People just love coming to wear kimono and they go out wearing kimono. And then because of that, we've also noticed that they've also, like, a lot of younger people who are coming to the kimono as well, which maybe before Corona, we didn't see a huge amount of. But, yeah, I think it's just because, you know, in a world where there's so much fast fashion and people are just looking for clothing that just has a little bit more value in the sense that if you come and you buy kimono, it literally says who's woven it, who's dyed it, and then it's sent to a tailor in Japan where it's all done within the country and you can kind of follow the process. And like I said as well you with those things that can be retailered. And there's so many different parts to the kimono. So even if you just get a kimono made, people often just use their obi from their mother and it's kind of like a sharing element of that as well. So I think that's one of the really nice thing about kimono, that it's inherently eco friendly in that sense that there's not a huge amount of waste and they can be retailers. And yeah, I think people just are starting to come back to that and seeing the value of it. And that does not crazy trend cycle that sometimes we have customers that come in that we say, oh look, we love your kimono, it looks so nice. And then they're like, oh this is my mother's, it's like 50 years old. And you just like you couldn't do that. You're not stressed from the 19 ladies. And people would kind of be like we are the really cool things that came out too.

[April Callahan]

Well, thank you both so much for talking to me. This has really been incredible. And before I sign off with you, do you care to share anything about what the future holds for Ginza Motoji or any projects that you're working on that you would like to share?

[Keita Motoji or Mark McNulty]

Yeah, of course. When it comes to like the future of kimono and like what do we kind of plan on doing in Ginza Motoji? Obviously continuing mainly the things that we're doing at the moment. But another thing as well is, you know, since we love natural dyeing as well. Keita was interested to know, for example, we also do the Yanakizome so like the willow dyeing. But also like if we were to dye with the mud of Ginza, what color would that produce? So that's something that we're looking into at the moment as well is literally taking the dirt, the foil from Ginza and then dyeing silk with that and seeing what happens there, which is really, really exciting. And then we went to the that site, remember that building site where these like buildings, like it was like, like 30 meters down the ground and that they were, they were like excavating to make a new building. And then they took load the dirt for us and then we had to bring it to your parents house. And I think your mom was like why is there like 50 bags of dirt outside my house? But yeah, so we're going to see what we can do. With that and see if we can dye anything with that, too, But. And then as well, so. But even within the silk industry itself, it's a lot of older people, and we're talking like 70, 80, 80 years old. And that's a little bit scary because once these techniques disappear, people stop making this. You're going to lose a lot of these techniques. But even within the industry today, there is younger people, some people who are like, what, in their 30s as well, who are joining the silk industry. And that's really exciting for us because it just shows that this is an industry that people want to work in and this is a job that's, like, exciting to do. And yes, I think that's really important to our future as well. It's like, you know, to be raising the next generation of people who want to make kimono, who want to wear kimono and want to produce kimono in any of the steps along the way, from making the thread to weaving the fabric, to tailoring the kimono itself.

[April Callahan]

Well, and I think you both are evidence of that as well. A new generation preserving all of this art and crafts and, and the storytelling element of kimono for future generations. So thank you both so much. This has been really special.

[Keita Motoji or Mark McNulty]

Thank you very much. Thank you so much for having us.

[Dressed Podcast Host (Narrator)]

Keita, Mark, thank you so much for sharing these incredible insights. This was just an entire world many of us would not usually have access to otherwise. And even if we cannot all wear or afford to wear these kimono, there is so much to learn here about why clothing and its makers matter.

[April Callahan]

Yes, absolutely. And just one of the many reasons that Ginza Motoshi is so special. I mean, Keita is really carrying what his father started at Ginza Motoji into the future in so many beautiful ways. And we, of course, on Wednesday learned about his collaboration with artists, but he also hosts educational workshops as well as monthly artist talks at the store. I mean, everything they do at Genza Motoji is about celebrating the makers. They are in many ways, the beating heart of this company. And really, this dedication to artisan and craft uplift is something that undoubtedly will ensure Ginza Motoji's continued success. And the art and practice of wearing kimono, as well as the company's website tells us, quote, we wish to bring joy to the makers and to the customers. We believe by doing this, we can bring kimono into the future with us.

[Dressed Podcast Host (Narrator)]

Well, that does it for us. Today, dressed as nurse, may you consider stopping to honor the makers of your clothes next time you get dressed. Be sure and check out Ginza Motoji's website at Motoji that's M O T O J I co to and the company's Instagramotoji. You can also follow along on Mark's Instagram, arkwithak, ncn and Keita's Instagram @keitamotoji Keta's Instagram is full of the most wonderful videos taking you into various kimono artistic processes, many of which we will share with you on our Instagram this week week which is at Dressed Underscore Podcast. As always, to find the Instagram content specifically linked to this week's episodes, you can check out the hashtags dress368 and dress369.

[Cassidy Zachary]

And remember, we always love hearing from you, so if you'd like to write to us, you can do so at hello dressed history.com dressedhistory.com is also our website where you can sign up for our monthly newsletter, our info person tours and online fashion history courses. And you can check out whatever else we have up our finely tailored sleeves.

[Dressed Podcast Host (Narrator)]

We get so many questions from you all about our recommendations for fashion history books, so if you are interested you can always find a link in our show Notes to our Bookshop Bookshelf. So that address is bookshop.org shop dress and there you can find over 150 of our favorite fashion history titles and

[Cassidy Zachary]

do you love Dressed but want to skip the ads? You can now sign up for ad free listening with any tier on our Dressed History Patreon.

[Dressed Podcast Host (Narrator)]

We are also excited to now be part of the Airwave Network and their premium Ad Free History subscription Airwave History plus available on Apple Podcasts. The subscription brings dressed and also 27 other popular history podcasts ad free for just $5.99 per month. More information on Patreon and Airwave is available at the link in our bio.

[Cassidy Zachary]

Thank you as always for tuning in and more Dressed coming your way very soon. The History of Fashion is a production of Dressed Media.

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