← Dressed: The History of Fashion
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- [00:00]
Indeed Advertiser
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- [01:49]
April Callahan
Please enjoy this episode from the Dressed archive of over 500 plus shows. Trust will be back with all new content in March of 2025. Until then, consider heading to DressedHistory.com to explore our latest online fashion history classes and in person tours of Paris and New York City. More from Dressed coming your way soon. With over 7 billion people in the world, we all have one something in common. Every day we all get dressed.
- [02:31]
Cassidy Zachary
Welcome to Dressed, the History of Fashion, a podcast that explores the who, what, when of why we wear. We are fashion historians and your hosts.
- [02:39]
April Callahan
April Callahan and Cassidy Zachary. Today, dress listeners, we bring you a very special interview with one very special woman. The groundbreaking fashion icon model Pat Cleveland joins us today to talk about her 50 plus year career as a model.
- [02:56]
Indeed Advertiser
Yay.
- [02:57]
April Callahan
I know, it's so exciting and actually we have Universe to thank for making this happen. Right? April, you and I have had Pat on our list since day one of this podcast.
- [03:07]
Cassidy Zachary
Yes, literally, you and I were talking about her memoir Walking with the Muses earlier this year. And I'm not kidding, the very next day, we got an email from the publicist and dress listener Mark Rhodes proposing that Pat come on the podcast. So it was fate. It was kismet. Thank you so much, Mark, for making this happen.
- [03:30]
April Callahan
Yes, thank you, universe and Mark, for answering all of our fashion history prayers. I'm glad you mentioned Pat's memoir, April, because you and I have both read it and it is wonderful.
- [03:41]
Cassidy Zachary
I keep recommending it to people.
- [03:43]
April Callahan
Yes, it's so good. We highly recommend it to you, our listeners, because Pat really provides us behind the scenes, insider access into a world many of us can only dream of. And it is really this beautiful testament to her life and career, but also those many loved ones that helped her make it all possible. So go out and get yourself a copy.
- [04:02]
Cassidy Zachary
Yes, do it. And it's available on Kindle. So I read mine on the train, which was cool. But we spend a lot of time talking about fashion history on the show. Obviously, that's what the show is entirely about, but very rarely do we get to meet and talk to one of fashion History's creators. So, Pat, thank you so much for being here.
- [04:23]
April Callahan
Pat, welcome to Dressed. It is such a pleasure to have you with us here today.
- [04:27]
Pat Cleveland
I'm here and I'm happy to be with you, too.
- [04:30]
April Callahan
And if our listeners are not already aware of your legacy, they are certainly now because April and I have talked about you on multiple occasions throughout the last two seasons of our show and you've been on our wish list since day one. So I just want to give a special thank you to our mutual friend Mark Rhodes, who made this all possible.
- [04:47]
Pat Cleveland
Yay.
- [04:48]
April Callahan
Yeah. This is very special for me to talk to you, so thank you for being here today. And I really just want to start at the beginning and hear about a very young Patricia Cleveland. I'm curious if you, you have a first memory of being inspired by clothing and if you can tell us about how you were first inspired to your early love of fashion.
- [05:07]
Pat Cleveland
Well, I think it all comes to the world of art, art and music and movies and impressions of people who had a kind of bright spirit, would dress up. And especially my mom, who dressed up in her own clothes that she made and they were pretty spectacular. She was a Leo, so a really good show off. And she would go to parties dressed up and win costume balls and make clothes at home and the dancers would wear them and the singers who came to visit, like earthy kid. And she made a dress for Marian Anderson, my godmother and she makes some clothes for friends. And I thought having all those fabrics in the house and boa feathers and sequins, I think it just sparkled my mind. And having those dancers in the living room. My aunt was a dancer, my mother a painter. So I was growing up in between the stir of watercolor and fabric and dancing and music.
- [06:11]
April Callahan
Yeah. And I've read your memoir, actually, a couple times now, and I just. I loved reading about these early years growing up with your mom and your aunt. I think you said something like, these early years in New York with your mom was a time of enchantment. It's really like this magical experience of.
- [06:25]
Pat Cleveland
Your childhood very much. Because when somebody has a certain spirit of liveliness, no matter what, you just get infected by it. That's what you got.
- [06:36]
April Callahan
And I think it was your mom, right, who decided you should try your hand at modeling. I'm hoping you can tell us a little bit about your modeling career, your early modeling career, the start to it, and your first experiences with the Ebony Fashion Fair.
- [06:49]
Pat Cleveland
I never thought I would model or anything. It wasn't something that people did, really. You saw a face in the magazine cover and you thought, oh, that's not real. Or you just look in the magazines. But we always had Vogue and Ebony and Glamour and all the things that were there in the 50s and the 60s. And we looked in and we made the clothes to look like the ones they had, or we'd make up something. And modeling was not like. I didn't think ever. I just thought I'd, like, maybe be an artist, paint, which I do now. But I never saw myself like that. And my mom said, you could do it. You can do this. Look at them. You look as good. But nobody looked like me. I was like a baby giraffe. I don't know, maybe animals have some kind of glamour. I don't know, maybe I was a deer or something. But other than that, she saw something in me. And she sent some pictures out to Ebony and Vogue and Glamour through a lot of rejections. And the pictures were taken at Carnegie hall by a fame photographer that my mom knew because when she was always hanging out in the jazz places, she met these wonderful Carl Van Vechten and people like that who would photograph all the Duke Ellingtons and people in the Harlem Renaissance. So when it was time to be photographed, they made the pictures and they made the contact sheets, which is really old fashioned. And she cut them up like little squares and put them in envelopes and send them off to the magazines. And that's what she did. And finally I got an answer. Mrs. Johnson from Ebony had sent a request to see me and my mother. And I was, like, 15 years old, and I had no idea. We went to the Waldorf Astoria, and I was dressed like the Virgin sacrifice. My mom dressed me that day. I had white tights, white dress, straw ha. White gloves, white patent leather shoes. I just didn't know what to think. I was like a nun walking into the Waldorf and going up to the presidential suite. What are we doing here? I had no idea. And we get in, we see Mrs. Johnson standing behind this regal desk and asking to walk. And I was so terrified because I was just like a sprout. And every other girl looked, like fully blossomed. And I thought, what am I doing? But she liked me, and she liked me a lot. And she asked if I could be in her fashion show, which traveled around America. And it was a benefit to raise money for colleges. And it was the EBONY fashion fair. And Mrs. Johnson would go to Europe and buy all the clothes. I think she was the only editor who would buy collections because after she would sell them to raise money for the black society so that young people could go to college. So it was all very worthwhile because besides the fact that I got to travel with all of these beautiful clothes for three months, I had to leave my school, and my mother came along as a chaperone, and we went around America and did a show every night.
- [10:06]
April Callahan
Wow.
- [10:07]
Pat Cleveland
I just remembered I was doing my homework in the bus, my American history homework, looking out the window, seeing America. They always say, know your own backyard before you travel. And not only did that, I got to wear the clothes that I loved. There was Givenchy and Yves Saint Laurent, Dior, Madame Petout and Lavain and Cardin and baby clothes from Yves Saint Laurent. Like babies, they were just not even known. Halston hats and things that people didn't even. These designers were not even famous yet. And Mrs. Johnson was buying their clothes. And I just. I know that at one point, Halston was in Chicago and saw me in the EBONY Fashion Fair. You just never know who's sitting in the audience. But he was kind of unknown at the time, too. So it's like everybody was starting their careers. 19, early 63, 64, 65. Because actually, I had started when I was 13, really being in pictures, but just being photographed.
- [11:24]
April Callahan
I loved reading that even though your modeling career had started at this point, you actually still had your dreams set on being a fashion designer. So your mom had really instilled this love of design in you. And she taught you how to sew and you and her made all of these wonderful clothes that you wore. And I loved reading that it was actually your own designs that got you first discovered by Vogue. You were chased down basically down the subway by Vogue editor, Fashion Vogue editor Carrie Donovan, asking you, just having to know who designed your clothes. And this was of course, you. Can you tell us about your early designs and your first Vogue experiences?
- [12:02]
Pat Cleveland
After in the fashion fair, I went back to school. I went to art and design for fashion design and illustration. And I did really right away. I hadn't modeled for that year, but I was applying myself to my art. And somehow I was walking to school one day and there was a bus strike and I had been discovered by Carrie Donovan. And she, wow, she was like such an important editor. She was like Mrs. Vreeland's favorite. Mrs. Vreeland was the head editor and she was like amazing goddess from Japan, Empress style, red cheeks. And very from the 1920s, actually. She knew my godmother, Meta Metcalfe. In the 1920s, my godmother was a editor at Vogue in France and she translated a lot of works. But anyway, that fact came up much later that I didn't realize when I was there in that time. But I had gone up to Vogue finally. They had caught for me. I was in school and designing and they saw my clothes and they wanted me to do pictures in my outfits as a new designer. So I get double page spread in Vogue as a new designer and I get an opportunity to design for Henry Bendel's collection, which I did, and I enjoyed it. And then I went back up to Vogue after a year and they wanted to photograph me for an article about springtime. And I remember there was Barry Berenson and Joel Schumacher, who's now a film director, and she took my picture and there it was in Vogue again as a designer. I was on that path and I went back up to Vogue again. They caught me again, but this time something else happened. Suddenly it was like they wanted me to pose for them. And I thought that was very strange because that was not my intention at all. So by this time I had already started modeling a little bit. Besides, doing the fashion fair was a super big thing because it was star studded and it got a lot of publicity. But I was going around being photographed in studios. You're trying to put a portfolio together and get an agent. And I was also dancing and making, being in small films, traveling to Mexico and different places. But other than that, I came back to New York, and I had the opportunity to work with Ole Cassini and Jacques Tifau, and I became their fitting models. And they suggested I get an agent, which was Ford. And I went there, and they were reluctant, but then they took me because of Ole Cassini and shot Tufo. And so then I started modeling, and I just fell in with the designers because that's what my interest was really, with making clothes. It wasn't so much about me putting on makeup and things. But my mother always said, if you don't wear makeup, you're gonna be an old mate. So I put on the makeup.
- [15:22]
April Callahan
And it was different to be a model back then. Right? You did all your own makeup for photo shoots and fashion shows.
- [15:29]
Pat Cleveland
Yeah. You had to be your own person. Like a person that you have to be a fashion person. Like, well, how would I say? Ladies in society always looked a certain way or dressed a certain way. So you had to push, make your own face, your own hairstyles. And inventive. You had to be inventive. So I was pretty easy for me, because to me, it was like acting or pretending or basically copying my mom do what she did. I would put my makeup on the way she put it on, or I really observed her and dressed the way she dressed, but more in my own style. I would make mini dresses and dress up in that and make the hair long ponytails. Very 60s with 70s. And it was still the 60s before I got any recognition in society, because I still had to meet these wonderful designers that were brand new and coming up. And I remember I went to Vogue, and they said, oh, we want to send you up to meet this new designer at Henry Bendel's. By this time, I had stopped designing, so I didn't have a collection there. But I went up to Henry Bendel's, and I met Stephen Burroughs, who suddenly I discovered was making everything the way that I had hoped to make it. So I just gave up designing. And he said to me, you just are the perfect girl for me. And I stayed there and became his fitting model. And I became his friend, and he became my friend. And so we would go out to parties, dress up with his whole entourage. Stephen Burroughs world was magnificent at Bindel's. It was like a black patent leather room with all colorful clothes. And he had beautiful friends who were very talented and creative, and they made music and grew plants and knew how to make interior decorating. So we had a little tribe of friends, F. Stevens, that we went out with, and one night went to this party. And it was like Giorgio San Angelo. He introduced me to him. I started working with him. And then he introduced Halston. Came and sat down next to me and said, I know you, I've seen you before. So he invited me to also his atelier. I started to be his model there. And then everything started happening. Vogue came to me. And as I was going around trying to be photographed, suddenly I felt myself in the pages of Vogue for Irving Pin.
- [18:17]
April Callahan
Wow.
- [18:18]
Pat Cleveland
And I was like 19. And that kind of set me on my way. Besides Charles Tracy and a whole bunch of other Avedon and Irving Pin, many photographers came over from London, Paris and photographed me for 19. And it was just. They started photographing me for foreign magazines mostly. And then I got an agent, which was kinder to me other than being with Ford, who weren't sure if I should be with him or not. Because racial things. They didn't think I was fair enough or whatever, I don't know. But I went off with Wilhelmina, who was a wonderful Dutch model who had so many covers of Vogue. And she believed in me. And after I got with her, things started happening for me because she was a very good agent. She said, I think you. You could have a better opportunity in Europe than Zap Bam. Before I knew it, I was on a first class ticket which I saved up my money for. I was on my way to Italy to my agent there, which I only stayed for a day because there were too many Playboys at the time. And I. And so I went off and. Actually, I hadn't mentioned that while I was up at Vogue in 69 and 17, I'd met an illustrator called Manning Obregon, who was Diana Vreeland's right hand illustrator. Because at the time when people went to the Paris collections in the 60s, early 70s, there were no photographers that were like today, no film made. It was just a private event where the illustrator would go and make the drawing of the clothes. So this Manning Obergram was the reason that when I was up at Vogue, he wanted to illustrate me in the clothes that would go into the magazine. So he was my first real job at ep at Vogue, posing like for a month in the green room, posing in all the clothes that would be going into the magazines. And that's where I had a connection with Mrs. Freeland. Because I would be in her office every day, stroop down like a chicken with no feathers in my robe. And listening to her and being with her and having her rip the clothes off and put the clothes on and it was quite an experience. And then after Mrs. Vreeland and Manning went to Europe for the collections, so there was no illustrator. And as I was there up at Vogue, waiting to be illustrated, this beautiful young man walked in and his name is Antonio Lopez, the illustrator. And he was the person who invited me to come to Europe to work with him. And because of him I was able to go to Paris. And I went to Paris to stay with Antonio Lopez to be his sketch model. And we lived in this very tiny apartment that was given to us by Karl Lagerfeld. And it was me and Donna Jordan and Juan and a male model and Corey Tippen and oh, we all lived in this tiny apartment with no kitchen. So we were obliged to dress up and go out until finally Carl started inviting us. Karl Lagerfeld. But we'd work all day on these illustrations and pose and get hungry and go out. So we became like the talk of the town. We were like, Donna was one of Andy Warhol's stars and Andy had photographed me. And they were just crazy for Andy Warhol and they knew we were part of his entourage. And Antonio Lopez was extraordinarily beautiful and charismatic and magnetic and every. Everybody wanted to be with us. Paloma Picasso and all those young royal kids. And it was just like our tribe was like attracting so much attention because we were pop art Americans with good music and we could dance. We go to the club set at night and dance and with new music and new dances and people just could not believe our energy. We dress up in Karl Lagerfeld and then finally, I just remember that somehow we got in with Eve. And Eve was very young and just starting out very well with his atelier. And so it was between Eve and Carl and Kinzo and there was Terry Mugler and all these wonderful creative people and just traveling around Europe, being photographed in the south of France and getting on boats and going to Africa, doing the things that I had seen people do in Vogue, posing at the Acropolis. And I was doing those things. I was going on locations around the world. And that's what we used to do, editorial shootings in London. I would pose in London with Parkinson, who would photograph the Queen the same day he'd photograph me. And it was just marvelous. What an education in fashion. And Zandra Rhodes, Kings Road and all the music and hanging out with the Beatles and being friends up at Apple Records, being in the movies there. And I had such a wonderful time being in Italy as well. All of these fantastic designers and quality of their clothes and oh my Gosh, there's so much to fashion. They call it fashion, but it's more like living in a certain style. It's, they call it fashion to make it fast. And it is fast. Business is fast. But it's not like people don't have a life. The designers and the artists, they have real lives and they're all friends really, outside of business. And that's when you start making your friendships and you realize how lucky you are. You come back to America and you find a young designer named Patrick Kelly who wants to go off and be a designer. And so I bought him a ticket and he went to Paris and he had the integrity. He became someone that everyone wanted to be around because he was such a wonderful, charismatic young man.
- [24:42]
April Callahan
And Patrick was really an incredibly gifted designer and actually dress listeners, our next episode coming up is actually on Patrick Kelly in commemoration of what would have been his 65th birthday. So be sure and tune in for that and we're going to hear more from you. Pat after a brief sponsor break.
- [25:01]
Cassidy Zachary
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- [25:27]
April Callahan
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- [25:41]
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- [25:53]
April Callahan
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- [26:06]
Indeed Advertiser
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- [27:58]
April Callahan
Welcome back, dress listeners. Pat Our listeners will be familiar with your role in the battle. Oversize. We've already done an episode on the 1973 quote unquote battle that put American fashion on the international map, but I'm hoping you can tell us a little bit more what that experience was like for you.
- [28:17]
Pat Cleveland
It was not anything done other than doing a benefit, but it turned out to be some kind of what they called a battle. And it seems the American designers hadn't really been on the stage in Paris. And when it came time to be at Versailles, it was a royal event and the Americans just shined. We had all those girls who could walk and the music was so American and modern lighting and it just was something so new. And the French embraced us, so they call it a battle. But I think they just fell in love with us because I had already been in Paris working, so it was like going home for me. But for a whole bunch of girls, it was their first time touching down there and then they went back and had that opportunity again. So I think you get certain opportunities and you, you go off to Versailles and you dine under the chandeliers and the cherubs and you meet the Duchess of Windsor and you, you drink champagne with her and Princess Grace and you meet all of these wonderful people in fashion because everybody dresses so beautifully because they feel that dressing makes them happy.
- [29:32]
April Callahan
It does. I mean, living a Life in fashion is, I think, a gift in many ways, and you've done it so beautifully.
- [29:40]
Pat Cleveland
I've been very blessed because the people around me have all loved each other sincerely, out of respect and just adoring each other's style. And they're just different flowers, that's all.
- [29:55]
April Callahan
And can you tell us a little bit about how your signature walk developed? I say walk in quotation marks because it's so much more than that. And. And it's just this incredible performance that you give us each and every time that is so all your own. And so Platte, Cleveland. And can you tell us a little bit about the role that dance played in its development, but also the people who helped you to develop it?
- [30:19]
Pat Cleveland
Yeah. When I was a child, I used to dance with a wonderful African American lady, Katherine Dunnan. I danced as a child with Kathryn Dunnon, and I was her little mascot. And all of these wonderful people would be in the class, like Marlon Brando and Earthy Kid and oh, wonderful ladies. And I would hang off the monkey bars and make fun, and they'd laugh and they'd play the drums. And I always wanted to be a dancer, but I was too tall at that time. I always felt that something that moves your heart like that can move your clothes, too. I just consider myself a flagpole moving the fabric.
- [31:05]
April Callahan
But you bring dance and movement. Even your first cover of Ebony fashion fair in 1966, you're already moving. You're making the clothes move already at that early point in your career. And then you bring that to the stage in such a wonderful way that really shares with the audience the joy of fashion.
- [31:23]
Pat Cleveland
You know how it feels when you put in a new dress? You feel all twinkly, and you just want to start showing off your goodies. This is how I feel. This dress makes me feel really beautiful. Even if you get something ugly on, it's just. It has its own beauty, too. Like, the spirit of the clothes is just somebody believed in that look, and you're going to go along with their fantasy and enjoy their ride with them because they had a vision. Like, sometimes you think, what is this? And then you put it on and you become a part of their world. Like how they see things. It's like more about wearing the designer than even wearing the garment.
- [32:07]
April Callahan
Yeah. But what you've brought specifically to, I think that is so incredible, incredibly special.
- [32:14]
Pat Cleveland
I'm a happy person. I don't let one minute get away from me that I don't see something beautiful in it. Like, even a dead leaf or something. When you think of all those people who sew, every stitch is a minute of your life. And I just basically do it because I think that the people who make the clothes are part of the dress too. I've been in so many ateliers and watched the ladies stitching. I really. I think they're wonderful. They're just so wonderful. They're just part of me. I feel like they're part of the dress.
- [32:51]
April Callahan
Yes, absolutely. And so are you. I've been watching a lot of Pat Cleveland Runway moments over the past couple weeks in anticipation of this.
- [33:01]
Pat Cleveland
Oh, my God.
- [33:03]
April Callahan
Terry Muglers, I think, were particularly fun. I saw you as a flower blossom and as a kitty cat. You just bring so much joy to the Runway, and you have so much fun with it. And I just. I really appreciate, appreciate that.
- [33:16]
Pat Cleveland
Yeah, you can have fun in everything. Put in a glove, it turns into a puppet. Put in a sock on your hand, it's a puppet. You can turn those clothes around. But I just know Mugler has such a fantastic imagination that he just infuses you with his vision, and you just want to be that ball of energy that brings it to life for him, because he's one of the first ones to put on those big shows where it's for entertainment as well. He and Kenzan. Yeah, I remember those shows from the 70s. They were so magnificent and so lively. It's not like when I first began. You walk with a number in silence, right? Staging and music and people cheering. So you do it because you want your audience not to feel bored. It's nothing like a wet dress and a hanger. You don't want to be a wet dress and a hanger. Dripping, soggy. You don't know what it looks like. You want it steamed steam. I got steam heat.
- [34:23]
April Callahan
Chase away the blues In Pat, you're still modeling. I just saw you and your daughter walking and singing your way down the Runway this last Fashion week. It was absolutely wonderful.
- [34:36]
Pat Cleveland
I'm telling you, that was just spontaneous. In the bathroom five minutes before, and she do it on the Runway. I was just singing to Anna. We always sing to each other, and they put it on the Runway. I can't believe it. So we get out there, and we winged it. We just faked it, too. And we. We like to do fun stuff. And for her, she and I to be together, she's always traveling. So that was just a special moment. We never get to work together really Very often. She just came off the Follies. She was the star of the Follies. By Gir for Jean Paul.
- [35:12]
April Callahan
I saw that.
- [35:13]
Pat Cleveland
And it was so wonderful to see her doing Josephine Baker. Because my great aunt was Josephine Baker's Sunday school teacher. And told Josephine, get on that training. Get out of town, girl. You need to work it. You got it. She taught her to play the piano. And it's always been in my family to have this wonderful showgirl, Josephine, in our lives.
- [35:35]
April Callahan
Right. And why it was so special that you met her at the Battle of Versailles. Right.
- [35:39]
Pat Cleveland
I knew her before that.
- [35:40]
April Callahan
Oh, you did?
- [35:42]
Pat Cleveland
I knew her before that. And I danced on stage with her once at Carnegie hall in another place. And I was going to go up and be in her show, but she died the week before I got there.
- [35:54]
April Callahan
Oh.
- [35:55]
Pat Cleveland
I was going to try to be in one of those cabaret with her.
- [36:00]
April Callahan
Yeah. I love the way Josephine comes in and out of your life, too, because you've yourself, of course, have portrayed her many times on stage. There's wonderful footage of you on a Patrick Kelly Runway as Josephine Baker.
- [36:12]
Pat Cleveland
And we all love her because she's the number one showgirl for black society because she escaped such danger and she was able to live a beautiful life.
- [36:23]
April Callahan
Yes.
- [36:24]
Pat Cleveland
And that's what we look for. We want to have a beautiful life. All everybody.
- [36:29]
April Callahan
Yes, absolutely. Essence magazine just inaugurated their Best in Black Fashion Awards. And you were the first person to ever receive the Icon Award.
- [36:39]
Pat Cleveland
I was in their first issue. I was in their first issue.
- [36:42]
April Callahan
That's what I was gonna say.
- [36:43]
Cassidy Zachary
Yeah.
- [36:44]
Pat Cleveland
Gordon Parks and Susan Taylor and. Oh, my God, there was so many wonderful people. And it was just like, okay, we gotta believe. We gotta believe. Let's keep marching it forward. And they were so advanced. They were already vegetarians using natural fabrics, pushing international flavor into the black community. It was just enlightening to be with them. And now they did the music and the awards and it just developed, isn't it? And the beautiful editors they have now. And it's just beautiful. I'm so proud. Thank you.
- [37:19]
April Callahan
Yeah. And I just. I'm curious because you've been a model now for 50 plus years. And I'm just, what does it mean to receive an award like this? Does it cause you to look back over your career?
- [37:29]
Pat Cleveland
And it just, it brings everything into the present. Like, you see the work and you see the development and you think this is a good thing when you're at the beginning of things. Most of the time I'm at the beginning of things before they develop. I don't know. That's just my path. But then you see there's a room, a platform for many more people. And you think, oh, wow, look at all of these new people. And you think, okay, that was good. That's good. We made that little walking path which is now a highway or Runway at an airport. I don't know, it just open doors. You think of how wonderful it is that things develop. And even with having been able to enjoy fashion for so many years and work with new designers, and it's just amazing how people can take their imagination and make a life. And that's what I do. I use my imagination and I make a life for myself. And I paint and I draw and I write and I make music and I every day I do a little something that makes me happy. And I think modeling makes me happy because I get to be with these wonderful people.
- [38:47]
April Callahan
Pat, thank you so much for being with us today and sharing with us the art, magic and joy of fashion and yourself. Really, thank you so much.
- [38:55]
Pat Cleveland
Keep stitching, keep singing, keep painting. Keep seeing the things that make you happy and have bliss consciousness.
- [39:05]
April Callahan
Thank you, Pat. And we're sending you lots of love and light your way as well.
- [39:09]
Pat Cleveland
Thank you for that prayer and have a good day.
- [39:12]
April Callahan
You know, April, originally I had titled this episode A Life Lived in Fashion. But after interviewing Pat, I changed it immediately to the Joy of Fashion. Isn't her joy infectious?
- [39:24]
Cassidy Zachary
Yes, and she is one strong, super inspiring woman. Cast ESSENCE Black Fashion Awards was one of her very first public appearances this year after being diagnosed with cancer this year. But at the awards, she revealed that she feels like a phoenix rising from the ashes, in large part, and thanks to the fashion community's outpouring of support. So, Pat, you are so loved and we are sending you loads and loads of even more love on your road to recovery.
- [39:55]
April Callahan
Yes, I absolutely. And again, thank you to Pat Cleveland for taking the time to talk to us and to Mark and her husband Paul for setting it all up. That does it for us today. Dress listeners. May you consider Pat's legacy and the joy of fashion next time you get dressed.
- [40:14]
Cassidy Zachary
Remember, we love hearing from you, so if you'd like to write to us, you can do so@hellorusthistory.com or you can also also DM us on Instagram Restore podcast, which is of course where you'll find reels and posts accompanying each week's episodes. We get so many questions from you all about our recommendations for fashion history books, so if you're interested, you can always find a link in our show notes to our bookshop bookshelf. So that address is bookshop.org shop dressed and there you can find over 150 of our favorite fashion history titles.
- [40:53]
April Callahan
You can also find a link to that in our show Notes where you can find a link to dressedhistory.com which of course is our website where you can check out our latest offerings from the Dressed Universe that includes our classes and our tours. So head over to DressedHistory.com and see what we have up our sleeves. Love Dress but want to skip the ads? Consider subscribing to our ad free version of the show for just $3 a month and enjoy our eight new episodes a month ad free. That does it for us today. Dress listeners. Thank you as always for tuning in and more dress coming your way very soon. The History of Fashion is a production of Dressed Media.
- [41:31]
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