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Dressed: The History of Fashion
WHat I wORE to work, an interview with Jo Weldon, part I (Dressed Classic)
00:42:22
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- [00:01]
April Callahan
This episode is brought to you by. Prime Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice off campus. Elle every year after the Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point and more slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime
- [00:31]
Jo Weldon
Girl. Winter is so last season and now spring's got you looking at pictures of
- [00:36]
Cassidy Zachary
tank tops with hungry eyes.
- [00:38]
Jo Weldon
Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders that perfect hang on the patio. Sundress those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done. Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope.
- [00:54]
Cassidy Zachary
It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross.
- [00:59]
Jo Weldon
Work your magic.
- [01:01]
April Callahan
The History of Fashion is a production of dressed media. With over 8 billion people in the world, we all have one thing in common. Every day we all get dressed.
- [01:15]
Cassidy Zachary
Welcome to Dressed the History of Fashion, a podcast that explores the who, what, when of why we wear. We are fashion historians and your hosts
- [01:23]
April Callahan
Cassidy Zachary and April Callahan cast Perhaps we should have switched up our intro a bit this week to be a podcast that explores the who, what, when of why we don't wear as this week we bring our first what some might deem to be racy content as we explore, as today's guest says, the quote, intersections of fashion, culture and sex work.
- [01:47]
Cassidy Zachary
In this week's two part episode writer, performer, sex worker, activist and headmistress of the New York School of Burlesque, Joe Weldon joins us to speak about her latest project, what I Wore to Work, a one woman stage production which is part fashion history lesson and part autobiographical confessional that reveals the little known history of sex workers as fashion influencers for millennia.
- [02:12]
April Callahan
Yes, and we have spoken about this before a little bit in terms of some of how 19th century elite courtesans patronize the hallowed halls of haute couture. We will mention this again very briefly in this episode as well, but in part one of this episode we dig back even further in time to the brothel workers of ancient Greece and fast forward all the way to contemporary sex worker style as seen on the red carpet at even this year's most recent Met gala.
- [02:42]
Cassidy Zachary
And dress listeners, while there is no description of sexual acts in any way, please note that there is frank discussion of themes some might consider sensitive, including the professions of stripping, prostitution and some brief mentions of politics and religion. So if this content is not your cup of tea, we get it. So maybe you just sit this week out. But the very real impact, quote unquote, working girls have had on high fashion is undeniable, as we will soon find out.
- [03:11]
April Callahan
Some of you might recall, Jo first joined us on the podcast in 2018 to discuss her book, Fierce, A History of Leopard Print. And that also, oh, so many years ago. Jo was also my burlesque teacher. She has also written a comprehensive manual on the art of classic and neo burlesque, and it's entitled the Burlesque Handbook. And we are so happy today that she's back for yet another revealing episode.
- [03:36]
Cassidy Zachary
Jo, welcome back.
- [03:38]
April Callahan
Jo, we are delighted to have you back on the show. Thank you so much for being here for what promises to be the sexiest episode of Dressed yet.
- [03:47]
Jo Weldon
I'm thrilled to be here.
- [03:49]
April Callahan
Yes.
- [03:49]
Jo Weldon
Thank you.
- [03:50]
April Callahan
And as you very well know, we have been in conversation about having you join us to speak about sex worker style and its historical influence on fashion for some time now as your work on this subject has evolved and grown. So could you tell us a little bit about how the seeds for this project were first planted and then its germination into its current incarnation?
- [04:13]
Jo Weldon
I've always known it, but it wasn't conscious realization. Everything was sort of sublimated. And I think that probably has a lot to do with being indoctrinated to thinking that sex workers don't have much to contribute to society or culture generally. And the thing is, I've been an activist, and I very much know better, but there's still that trace of indoctrination that sort of blocked my realization. And then when I was working on the history of leopard printing, I ran across an urban dictionary definition of leopard print that says anything that is leopard print can be described as whore and gave the example of a whore bra. And I'm in the middle of researching leopard print, and I'm already finding all these different interpretations of what it means to be leopard print and seeing all these influences from other cultures that make leopard print so powerful. And. And I went, wow, Dressing like a whore is a really potent concept in people's minds. And then I realized it's a really potent concept in my mind. It's really important to me. It really matters to me. And so I think about the vernacular dressing like a whore, which means someone is too sexily dressed for wherever they are, and then also the actual dressing like a whore that I did to work in the sex industry.
- [05:42]
April Callahan
Yeah.
- [05:43]
Jo Weldon
And I started Doing the research informally. And then I reached out to the New York Public Library and they gave me a residency. But unfortunately, the beginning of the residency intersected with the beginning of the lockdown for the pandemic.
- [05:56]
April Callahan
Where has this research taken us to today?
- [05:59]
Jo Weldon
I've been writing a book, and right now the book is being edited down. There's way too much. So I'm using that in my substack and in these little booklets I'm making. But while I was working on the book, I decided to make it into a one woman show because there was conflict in my mind about whether I should do a third person version of the history or overview of sex work intersecting with fashion, or whether it needed to be a memoir about what I actually wore to work. And then I. I got really annoyed when I realized it had to be both. I didn't really want to write a memoir. It's so much easier to do the third person stuff for me. And it just. I said, I gotta do the show. I've gotta get this out in front of people and get responses and feedback. And so I put a show together and I started performing it a year ago in New York City, and I'll be taking it on the road in 2025.
- [06:54]
April Callahan
Yeah, and it's amazing. I've seen it a couple times now. And one of the things that I love so much about your work and the show in general is how seamlessly you weave together worlds on multiple levels. So on one hand, your one woman show is funny, sexy, and sometimes it's a little bit explicit. But on the other hand, one should never underestimate, like, it's very real sincerity and scholarship. Because I nearly fell out of my chair when at the beginning of the show, you had Johnny come around and distribute your little cards to everyone that had a QR code on it. Right. Was it a QR code?
- [07:34]
Jo Weldon
QR code, yeah.
- [07:35]
April Callahan
So people could access your footnotes and all of your scholarly citations that went into the information that you were presenting in your one woman show. Would you tell us a little bit more about that? I've never seen a stage show that came with footnotes.
- [07:49]
Jo Weldon
I follow a lot of historians. I follow their writing, I read their books, I follow their YouTubes. And I come from a background of studying journalism. And I know what constitutes disability, diligence, and fact checking. And even then, you can sometimes be wrong. Every thing I've ever written of any link has at least one error in it, and one error that matters to me. But I do my best, and there's so much weird little history on TikTok and Twitter. And they'll just say something and I'll realize that's not a fact.
- [08:23]
April Callahan
That's right.
- [08:25]
Jo Weldon
That's how that's literally not true because I've done research in that area. So I wanted to give other fashion scholars because a lot of fashion designers and scholars have come to the show. So if you think this might be interesting for you, or if my perspective is too narrow or too based on my identity characteristics, here's a place to start. Have some fun. Go on. Or feel free to fact check me and I consider anybody that fact checks me. Or let's lets me know I have something wrong to be doing me a huge favor. Thank you. But also cite your freaking sources.
- [09:01]
April Callahan
Exactly.
- [09:02]
Jo Weldon
Because there's great stuff on every platform, but there is just garbage history out there. Garbage.
- [09:10]
April Callahan
Yeah. If we're going to talk about primary sources and all of the primary sources that went into your work and especially the show, you begin the show with a doozy. And I didn't see. See this coming. I don't know if anybody saw this coming as the opening of the show. You opened the show with a verse from the Bible. Could you tell us about that verse from Proverbs and why that opens the show?
- [09:31]
Jo Weldon
Yeah. So I, you know, I decided to set my research in the context of how I would be a person reaching these conclusions. I feel like that's essential. Right. And I realized that the first time I ever encountered the concept of dressing like a whore was in the Bible because I come from a Christian family. There's missionaries and faith healers in my family, and I love them, and they've done a lot for me. But they've also terrified me with scary stuff that'll happen to me if I don't study the Bible and get the message. So I studied the Bible and I came away with a completely different message, I think, than they intended. So I first read about whores in the Holy Scripture in some proverbs, which describe a woman being dressed like a harlot and subtle of heart. So she's crafty and she leads this young man into sin, and he otherwise would have been sinless his entire life. And it's a warning against women who dress and act seductively. And it describes men who encounter them as utterly powerless. In this particular proverb, like in other sections of the Bible, prostitutes have different powers. But as a kid who was finding the whole Bible unsettling, I was like, oh, here's power glamour.
- [10:56]
April Callahan
When you.
- [10:56]
Jo Weldon
Yeah, when you get to the. The whore of Babylon much later in Revelations, and she's described wearing ostentatious purple and red and all this gold jewelry and everything. I was like, oh, she sounds fabulous. I gotta get me. Yeah, I gotta get me a seven headed beast and some red and purple clothes.
- [11:15]
April Callahan
And I do believe you were wearing a purple dress the night of the st that I saw you. Yeah. I'd also love to give our audience some additional insight into this kind of around the world tour that you give in the show of the history of sex workers relationship to clothing and style as it dates all the way back to antiquity. Could you talk to us a little bit about some of the laws which governed attire of, let's say, for instance, the brothel workers in ancient Greece and also the high class courtesans of that time period too, who were known as hetira and their influence in actually spawning fashion trends.
- [11:55]
Jo Weldon
Right. So there, there was definitely what sex workers call a hierarchy in ancient Greece with a lot of different categories of sex workers. And a lot of them were immigrants from Galan, Germany, and some of them were the spoils of war women who'd been captured and were enslaved in ancient Greece. And among the hetaire, the blond hair was highly prized because it was much more common for these people from Gaul and Germany to be blonde than it was for the generally dark haired Greek. And it was associated with exoticism and eroticism and barbaric animal passions, but also with Aphrodite, the blonde goddess of love, who was something of a patron goddess of prostitutes. So the hetaire would worship them, worship her and go to her temple. Whereas the brothel workers were also particularly prized when they were blonde. And some brothels actually required all of their workers to be blonde, whether it was through natural hair color, dye or wigs. And again, this association with being extremely erotic, exotic and sexually powerful, of course trickled up, as fashion so often does, to the wealthy classes, where wealthy women would often imitate these blondes by wearing blonde wigs or dyeing their hair blonde.
- [13:33]
April Callahan
And there was a whole actual practice where they had these little sun shade hats that were like a straw ring that went around their heads and they would apply the bleach and they would sit on the roof of structures to naturally bleach their hair blonde. So like you said, it was that fashion trend was trickling up through society, not down.
- [13:52]
Jo Weldon
Yeah. And they would actually put. The wealthy people would put like guilt powder in their hair, like actual gold powder.
- [14:00]
April Callahan
Yeah, I had never heard that before. That's amazing.
- [14:02]
Jo Weldon
And then the Ancient Roman who took over so many of the characteristics and culturally appropriated from the Greeks, also prized blonde hair in the same way. And there was a Roman moralist who said that the women, the wealthy women who were dyeing their hair blonde were committing treason by not being satisfied to be good dark haired Roman citizens.
- [14:26]
April Callahan
There's always a whole handful of the moralists, right?
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Jo Weldon
Yeah.
- [14:30]
April Callahan
So also, you and I have been banding about for a while now different ways to approach this topic as your research expanded. And there for a little while, we were in conversation about maybe just doing an entire episode on the history of the thong. And again, it's surprising to learn that this history dates all the way back to antiquity in terms of the G strings first association with sex work. So could you tell us, first of all, the difference between a thong and a G string? I think a lot of people don't know this. And also, what did your research reveal in terms of one particularly notable performer, slash personage in ancient Byzantium?
- [15:09]
Jo Weldon
So people definitely use the terms thong and G string interchangeably. And I understand, and I'm not the kind of person who goes crazy when they call a thong a G string or vice versa, but there's a difference. So a thong has material on the sides, they both go at between the cheeks of your derriere, but a thong has material on the sides, whereas the G string has either literally an elastic string or fabric so thin that it's like a string. So a thong has much more structure than a G string.
- [15:44]
April Callahan
Got it, Got it, thank you. And who in particular do you talk about on the show in terms of maybe that being one of the first examples that you've uncovered in your research?
- [15:56]
Jo Weldon
Yeah. So most of the early examples, and this is all over the world, on almost every continent, there's some kind of groin cover for protection against the elements or commonly in sports. Right. And they'd be worn by every gender. But the first example that I found of a sex worker wearing something like a thong or a G string is the story of Theodora from Byzantium. And I think we're looking at the 5th or 6th century in Byzantium. And the story that Procopius told about her was that when she was young and she was working in the circus as an acrobat and a prostitute, she did an act that was a burlesque of Leda and the swan, where Zeus comes down and impregnates Leda when he's in the form of a swan. And so making fun of this, she comes out in beautiful flowing robes and there's a goose on the stage and she strips for the goose. She gets down to a thong because they don't allow her to go nude. Of course, politicians are already making sure that they have a say in what
- [17:10]
April Callahan
the sex workers wear and we're going to talk more about that later.
- [17:14]
Jo Weldon
Oh yeah. And so, so she's in the thong, she lays down on the stage and then a stagehand would scatter seed over her crotch and the goose would come running over to peck at it and she would writhe as if in agony and ecstasy. And that was the conclusion of this infamous story about her.
- [17:32]
April Callahan
And later she, if you want to talk about trickling up through society, she ended up becoming the Empress.
- [17:38]
Jo Weldon
The Empress of Byzantium. Yeah.
- [17:40]
April Callahan
And an orthodox saint later on.
- [17:44]
Jo Weldon
Foreign.
- [17:50]
April Callahan
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- [18:04]
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April Callahan
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- [19:01]
April Callahan
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- [19:19]
Cassidy Zachary
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- [19:40]
April Callahan
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- [19:54]
Cassidy Zachary
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- [20:15]
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- [20:43]
Jo Weldon
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- [20:53]
Cassidy Zachary
It's not just for celebrities.
- [20:55]
Jo Weldon
So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com
- [21:03]
April Callahan
Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms@mintmobile.com I think a lot of people will also be very surprised to learn that historically courtesans, performers, sex workers. Theodora is one good example of this that oftentimes these women were the most educated and independent in any given society in which they appear. So could you tell us a little bit more about this and maybe a little bit about the legendary courtesans of Venice and their role as cultural influencers?
- [21:46]
Jo Weldon
Yeah, frequently, whether by law or by tradition or by some kind of decree, wives were expected to stay at home and maintain the home and bear children. Yeah, even wealthy wives. Although you hear about them breaking out all the time, they'll have their way their blonde wigs. These Venetian courtesans are an Example of the kind of, of sex worker that would work their way up because of extreme beauty or cleverness or just being great at interacting with people. And they would become the companions of wealthy men in their leisure time. And leisure time is when people tend to enjoy the arts. So they would often be their companions at functions and intellectual discussions. And they would often be the muses, like statues and representations of myths and stories. But they would also contribute their own opinions, often their own writing. They were often also the entertainment dancers and musicians who carried on the artistic traditions of a culture.
- [22:59]
April Callahan
And these societal freedoms and opportunities for self determination that a lot of these women had were not exclusive only to European sex workers in history. We see it all around the world. Perhaps you could tell us a little more about the courtesans of Edo period Japan and also the Indian Tawai.
- [23:18]
Jo Weldon
One of the fascinating things is that the platform shoe has a very long history of being associated with sex workers, even when people who were not sex workers were wearing them. Because sex workers would be out and about more than most people who were keeping care of the house. And with the Venetian courtesans you had these very tall stilt like platform shoes called chopines and stilt like platform shoes again on the courtesans of Yoshiwara, which is the brothel district in Edo, Japan, when Tokyo was called Edo. And they have these three legged platform shoes. And those shoes are so strongly associated with these courtesans known as oiran, that they still do marches in them and they still do processions to celebrate these women in the same three legged platform shoes and do a very characteristic S shape walk. And at the time they were influencing literature and art. Again they were singers and dancers. They were often writers themselves. They were the subject of operas, poems and woodcuts that were distributed widely that again affected fashion. They were known for their shoes as well as their extremely elaborate hairstyles and robes. And again, the gaudier the better, the more lavish and lux the better.
- [24:45]
April Callahan
Because you're advertising your profession, right? This is a little bit of advertisement that's happening.
- [24:50]
Jo Weldon
Yes, absolutely. They had to stand out, they had to be fabulous. There were prestigious kimono makers who were known for their work with these courtesans. And they were just, they were legends in their own time often. Although one of the reasons they were popular opera subjects is because their lives were difficult.
- [25:09]
April Callahan
So that you have that little bit of like tragedy and gravitas in terms of like literary content. And what about the Indian taba?
- [25:16]
Jo Weldon
If these were women who they had, they were courtesans they had houses and they were dancers, musicians, interior designers and the arbiters of etiquette for their societies. And of course, when the British occupied this region. Let's talk about Mughal India. They occupied this region. And these tawais were some of the people who organized military actions against the British in movements that eventually got that occupation out. And so the Tawais were really powerful, but they were known for their fashion, they were known for their style, and everybody followed it. And tawais were also part of the beginnings of cinema in India and are still very popular subjects for Indian cinema. One of my favorites that I read about was Bagum Hazrat Mahal, which is a 19th century Tawai. And she led one of these military expeditions against the British and she's celebrated as a hero now and actually had her own postage stamp in 1984.
- [26:25]
April Callahan
A lot of these women made big impacts in their own day. They were celebrities of their day.
- [26:31]
Jo Weldon
Absolutely.
- [26:32]
April Callahan
And with the invention of photography, a lot of these women's fame and fashions had international reach. And would you tell us about two celebrated 19th century courtesans that you speak about in the show? And I'm referring to Skittles, just single name there, Skittles, and also Cora Pearl. And what was their relationship to the fashion industry?
- [26:56]
Jo Weldon
Both of them were pretty horse breakers, which was what Victorians called these young women who modeled the wares of carriage makers and stables. And then they would ride in the processions through Hyde Park. So they'd be alongside the wealthy who were showing off their wealth in fashion. And of course, they could come from anywhere as long as they had horseback skills. And they would all also be supplies with lavish clothing. And they became the companions of wealthy and extremely influential men. And her name, Skittles, comes from her working during an early part of her career in a bowling alley. So Skittles is like bowling, and her real name was Katherine Walters and her house is actually landmarked. Oh, wow. And yeah, and she became really well known for her incredible riding habits and influenced the fashion of everybody. People would literally riot when she came out to see what she was wearing. And she had an incredibly tiny waist. She was known for wearing her clothing so tight that she couldn't wear underwear. And so she was a known style icon, a big celebrity in her day. Again, known for her lavish lifestyle. Skittles was literally known as the girl with the swan's down seat because she was infamous for having this cushioned toilet seat.
- [28:20]
April Callahan
A lot of these women, like Cora Pearl, had very real connections to haute couture. As well. Yes.
- [28:27]
Jo Weldon
So Cora Pearl was one of the most outrageously dressed women in this circle in London and Paris. And she was known for doing things like dyeing her hair and her dog blue to match her carriage. And she threw outrageous parties. And she was an activist as well, but she was known for whipping her men harder than her horse. She was also a dominatrix.
- [28:51]
April Callahan
Yeah. And she was an actress. She was a stage actress at certain points. Yes. As well.
- [28:56]
Jo Weldon
She had moments. Yeah. That was not her primary Mary Gigg, but yes.
- [29:00]
April Callahan
And a lot of these courtesans and stage actresses were major patrons of some of the early couture houses like House of Worth and also House of Doucet as well. He had ongoing relationships with these stage actresses and very famous courtesans.
- [29:16]
Jo Weldon
Yeah. So Cora Pearl is known for being both a muse and a client of Charles Worth. It's a very significant relationship for both of them. And since so many people talk about Charles Worth as the founder of the modern fashion system, it's interesting to know that there was a sex worker there all along in that Italia making an impact.
- [29:41]
April Callahan
Absolutely. And also a lot of times they had the ability to wear the more outlandish designs from these very established couture houses. So they were really pushing fashion forward even from the very birth of the haute couture industry.
- [29:56]
Jo Weldon
Yes.
- [29:56]
April Callahan
So earlier you mentioned the silver screen, and I want to get back to that because from Victorian photography to the silver screen, sex workers style has really permeated our visual landscape for centuries. And a lot of times I think that the characters portrayal in movies allows them to fly under the radar a little bit to media consumers because of the glamour in which. In how they are depicted on screen. Once you really start pulling these threads to all of these influences and the connections to high fashion, they start to reveal themselves and you can't unsee it once you see it. And think about some of how your favorite films where this dynamic is actually happening and it's a. And it's a feature of the plot. So could you tell us about some of the depictions of sex worker style in film and television? And especially maybe some instances which the audience doesn't give too much consideration to at that time.
- [30:55]
Jo Weldon
The ones that were really powerful for me when I was young because we had all these stacks of Life magazine around were, for instance, the World of Susie Wong, which was about a young woman who was doing sex work and she was wearing a Chong Song, which is. Was not unknown to American fashion at that time, but it had a huge impact because the film was an enormous success. The actress Nancy Kwan looked incredible in them, and they were styled super sexy. And so it initiated this wave of that silhouette as well as that neckline in fashion. And of course, the most famous example of sex worker fashion on film is also one of the most famous example, the fashion on film, which is Audrey Hepburn and Breakfast at Tiffany's with all her outfits designed by Givenchy.
- [31:52]
April Callahan
Yes.
- [31:53]
Jo Weldon
And as you said, sex workers have the opportunity often to wear whatever they want. And people often don't think about the fact that this sex worker character had this enormous impact on both fashion and film. And every now and then people will say, oh, she's not really a sex worker. And like, $50 for the powder room. What do you think? What do you think is happening there? And also, her boyfriend is clearly a gigolo. Clearly. So it's definitely showing that a connection that I think should always be made when people are studying fashion, which is that in cities, fashion is connected to nightlife, and nightlife is full of queer people. And sex workers.
- [32:36]
April Callahan
Absolutely.
- [32:36]
Jo Weldon
And they're always there and they were always influential. They help popularize things. They may create things that inspire designers. And I feel like this movie is a great example of how that influence travels. Even though, you know, say, Givenchy is not designing outfits for most sex workers. They're like. We know of one.
- [32:57]
April Callahan
Yeah, absolutely. Right there, 50 foot tall on the screen.
- [33:02]
Jo Weldon
Another favorite of mine. What? So I'm a kid and I'm not supposed to be seeing some of the magazines I'm seeing, but there was a lot of in credible portrayals of scenes from black exploitation movies. And in the late 60s, early 70s, I would see these incredibly fashionable women and just be so inspired by what they wore. And there's one movie called Truck Turner where the dialogue is just, oh, God, you don't. Oh, it's terrible.
- [33:34]
April Callahan
But the outfit.
- [33:36]
Jo Weldon
Oh, my God. And everything in the movie, all the gowns that they wear to this one funeral, these black cutaway, all these wild gowns look exactly like the gowns designed by versace in the 90s. And Versace acknowledged that he was inspired by prostitutes clothing. So I absolutely loved Flute.
- [33:59]
April Callahan
Yes.
- [34:00]
Jo Weldon
And there are no movies from these eras that aren't problematic. So it isn't. Oh, yes. It's a perfect example of how sex workers should be portrayed. But it's an amazing movie. And Jane Fonda is so incredibly stylish in that movie. I remember people. I was little, so I must have heard this later, but I remember the shock of her haircut like people talking about this wild haircut. Jane Fonda was in the middle of a divorce and she wanted a big change. Got this shag haircut that then everybody had to have. And she's wearing incredible clothes in the movie, including thigh high boots, which are practically a trademark in a lot of people's minds of sex workers. Like they're worn in Pretty Woman. They're worn in so many movies about sex workers. And I wore them as a sex worker also. I love that. I love that the costumes include. Were by Ann Roth, who played the beautiful older woman on the bench in the 2023 movie Barbie.
- [35:04]
April Callahan
Yes, yes. And when you make this point in the show, everybody in the audience goes. So amazing.
- [35:10]
Jo Weldon
Oh, it gave me chills when I figured it out. I was so amazed and so touched.
- [35:14]
April Callahan
Also, Clute had a real impact on contemporary fashion. There's a couple of like more contemporary editorial fashion spreads that I can think of that are using that reference directly in the fashion magazine. So people are still influenced by that film.
- [35:32]
Jo Weldon
Yeah. And that turtleneck sequined dress, we've seen so many versions of that.
- [35:36]
April Callahan
One of my favorite movies of all time since I was a kid is actually Gigi.
- [35:41]
Jo Weldon
Oh, Gigi.
- [35:43]
April Callahan
And costumes by Cecil Beaton, of course. And I was just obsessed with the way that the movie looked and all of her clothes when I was a kid. And it wasn't until I went back many years later and rewatched it that I realized that they were grooming her to be a courtesan the entire time. That completely flew over my head when I was a child. Yeah.
- [36:05]
Jo Weldon
Sex work and fashion on film is a whole topic. It's a. Yeah, yeah.
- [36:10]
April Callahan
This happens again and again. These connections to high fashion. Jump the shark from portrayal in movies a lot of times and then to the Runway in the collections of so many beloved fashion designers. And so many of them have been very candid on this point, that sex worker style was their source of inspiration for maybe an entire collections even. And besides Versace, do you have a few other kind of high end fashion designers that you might like to mention to illustrate this point?
- [36:41]
Jo Weldon
If you look at almost any of them, there's. You'll find examples of them referring to sex workers, naming outfits after famous sex workers, that kind of thing. But I wanted to give a few concrete late 20th century examples. So there's the infamous scandal collection from Yves Saint Laurent, who also costumed Catherine Denou in La Belle de Jour, which is a movie about a sex worker. And this is what I mean when
- [37:11]
April Callahan
I'M saying, once you start pulling these threads, you can't unsee it.
- [37:14]
Jo Weldon
Yeah, it's everywhere. It's everywhere. That's why I'm like, how do I shorten this book? How do I make. Maybe it's an encyclopedia of fashion and sex work. Yeah. And so there were references to the women on the street in Paris at the time. And it was scandalous because in occupied Paris, a lot of people associated sex workers with complicity. But it's also definitely a reference to sex workers. And Yves Saint Laurent is like, when he received all the criticism, he said, I don't care. This is what young people want, and this is what I. I want to give to them. It's really an amazing statement. And obviously, Vivian Westwood, as. As a kid, I would go to the mall, and I would read every rock and roll, punk rock magazine, and there would be pictures of sex. Vivian Westwood's boutique in London. And they would show people in these outfits where they were like sex workers from the waist down. They were wearing fishnets and garter belts and everything. And then up top, they would have this asymmetrical tops and wild, intimidating makeup and hair. And the juxtaposition of the two was so thoughtful and powerful. I think it really had a lot to do with her original impact. And she had a pair of platform shoes that were like the infamous ones that Naomi Campbell fell off, but they have Mary Jane straps that were called the prostitute shoes. And you see these influences of sex workers across the eras in her work all the time. And who could be less ashamed about acknowledging that than Vivian Westwood?
- [38:51]
April Callahan
Yeah. Who named one of her boutiques Sex.
- [38:54]
Jo Weldon
Yeah, absolutely. And I loved that. Patrick Kelly, who's a designer that really touches my heart, had Pat Cleveland dress up like Josephine Baker, who was considered extremely scandalous for her naked dance in a banana skirt. And Pat Cleveland wore the banana skirt on the Runway in his show in 1986, he talked about how he loved the glamour of the church ladies, but he's also acknowledging that it isn't all about church ladies. There's some ladies of the night and some naked dancers that have their place too. He was always championing people who were under recognized for their impact on fashion. And I already mentioned Versace, but. Oh, Mugler's Follies. Yes. Right. So Thierry Mugler, and those were based on Follies from the Gilded Age, the 20s, but also modern dominatrixes. And one of Mugler's primary performers in the Follies was famous fetish model and burlesque performer named Elotte Boutet. And he very openly acknowledged it and always has. And for me, it's been interesting to be in New York and be a sex worker. I've been a stripper and an escort and a dominatrix, among other jobs in the sex industry. And I've always been in nightlife. And I've always seen that nightlife is culture, which means queer people and sex workers, our culture, because we are nightlife. We are nightlife.
- [40:24]
April Callahan
Yeah.
- [40:24]
Jo Weldon
But in New York, I started to realize how many designers were in the room. I can't name check them all because I don't know if it's appropriate, but I know that I can name comfortably name without compromising them in any way I can name. Marc Jacobs and Calvin Klein were always there.
- [40:40]
April Callahan
Yeah.
- [40:40]
Jo Weldon
And so many other amazing designers. A lot of my companions were associated with Mugler. And you see the fetish fashion in his daily wear that he wore. It's just undeniable that the impact is there, that sex workers are able to popularize styles that might otherwise have been marginalized and forced them to trickle up, and that designers are there being inspired by their creativity. Right now, we have major influences like Cardi B, who's very open about acknowledging her history as a stripper and how influential it's been on her style in her life. And Julia Fox, who's very upfront about having been a sex worker, a dominatrix, and how that influenced her sense of style. And I think that's really powerful. And stripper shoes have been seen on the red carpet at the Met Gala, on Helen Mirren and Kim Kardashian. When I say stripper shoes, I'm talking about those clear platform heels made by the company pleasers. But people call them stripper shoes. People know that's the association. And they're worn because they're built for comfort and durability, and they can raise you up six to eight inches. Chopines are back, bringing us full circle
- [41:55]
April Callahan
to 16th century Venice. We're going to end part one here, dress listeners. But don't worry, Jo's going to be back later this week for part two of this discussion where we're going to get into what she wore to work.
- [42:09]
Cassidy Zachary
Jo, thank you so much for undressing. The long standing history of sex workers as fashion influencers and style icons, as well as their depictions in film history and the very real impact all of this has had on contemporary fashion today. There are so many things that were exclusively workwear for strippers a few decades ago that are now commonly found on the Runway, red carpet, and even in our own closet. These are exactly the sort of hidden histories we love to uncover on Dressed.
- [42:38]
April Callahan
Yes, and as Jo mentioned at the top of the episode, she's going to be touring her one woman stage show, what I Wore to Work in 2025. And you can stay tuned to her website, which is joeweldon.com and that's W E L D O N to learn more in the coming months. For more details on that. And you can also find her book, A History of Leopard Print on our dressed bookshelf@bookshop.org shop forward slash dressed.
- [43:04]
Cassidy Zachary
And I do have to say, dress listeners, I have been a subscriber to Jo's newsletter and it is absolutely fantastic. I highly recommend subscribing and Jo will be back with us later this week to discuss further in detail what she wore to work in her own career as a sex professional. So if you enjoyed this episode, Part two really turns up the heat. I think that does it for us today though, dress listeners. So until Friday, may you consider where you find sex appeal in your wardrobe next time you get dressed.
- [43:33]
April Callahan
As always, remember, we love hearing from you, so if you'd like to write to us, you can do so by way of email at. Hello DressedHistory.com DressedHistory.com is also where you can find any and all details about our upcoming classes, trips and tours. Or you can also DM us on Instagram restorepodcast, which is where we post images to accompany each of our episodes. If you'd like to find the Instagram content specifically related to this episode, you can search the hashtag dressed506. And also for next week's part two, that would be dressed507.
- [44:09]
Cassidy Zachary
Thank you as always for tuning in and more dressed coming your way on Friday, the History of Fashion is a production of Dressed Media. And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go
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April Callahan
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Jo Weldon
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April Callahan
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Jo Weldon
Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.
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April Callahan
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Jo Weldon
Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.
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Cassidy Zachary
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Jo Weldon
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Cassidy Zachary
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