A Google saleswoman walks into a room of 11 men. The CEO interrupts her. This defined HER CAREER.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Driving Impact: The Top 5% Method® Episode: A Google Saleswoman Walks into a Room of 11 Men. The CEO Interrupts Her. This Defined HER CAREER.
Release Date: August 12, 2025
Host: Katheline Jean-Pierre
Guest: Sheena [Last Name], Sales Leader at Google

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Driving Impact: The Top 5% Method®, host Katheline Jean-Pierre interviews Sheena, a seasoned sales leader at Google with over a decade of experience. The conversation delves into Sheena's journey from her culturally rich upbringing in India to becoming a pivotal leader in Silicon Valley's tech giant. This episode offers invaluable insights into overcoming adversity, authentic leadership, and the power of networking.

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Early Experiences and Challenges

Sheena begins by recounting a pivotal moment early in her career that shaped her resilience and leadership style.

[00:00] A: "I walk into this room, it's a boardroom with like maybe 11 men over 50, not a single woman in the room. And there was this one guy who said something on the tune of how old are you? My company is older than you. So if you are here to give me any advice or tell me how to run my business, here's the way out. That was the first thing he said to me."

This harsh welcome from a senior executive in a predominantly male environment left a lasting impact on Sheena. It was a stark introduction to the challenges women often face in corporate settings, especially in leadership roles.

Upbringing and Cultural Influence

Sheena shares insights into her upbringing in India, highlighting the influence of her family and cultural background on her personal and professional development.

[02:59] A: "I grew up in an apartment with my sister, parents, grandparents, and even my great grandmother. Decisions were dinner table conversations, from career choices to personal relationships. This environment fostered open discussions but also brought immense pressure and expectations."

Her family's emphasis on academic excellence and structured decision-making provided a strong foundation but also instilled a sense of duty and responsibility in Sheena.

Passion for Dancing

Despite her family's academic focus, Sheena nurtured a profound passion for dancing, which became a cornerstone of her personal identity and leadership approach.

[05:29] A: "I started dancing at the age of four and have learned about 13 dance forms to date. I'm a trained classical dancer in Kathak and have also delved into jazz, contemporary, hip hop, and salsa."

Sheena co-founded a dance company in the Bay Area, integrating her love for dance with entrepreneurship. This venture not only fulfilled her creative aspirations but also provided a platform for community building and personal expression.

Transition to Google and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome

Sheena's entry into Google came at a challenging time in her life, marked by rejection and self-doubt.

[11:14] A: "A recruiter reached out to me right when I was at the lowest in my life. I was studying for the GMAT, contemplating an MBA, when Google offered me a role as an account strategist—a position I didn't fully understand but decided to embrace."

Her authentic self, rather than a curated persona, resonated with Google, leading to her successful placement despite her initial insecurities.

[12:35] A: "I was so immune to rejection at that point. I had such a big wall in front of me because my confidence, I just felt very little and very small as an individual. I just let go and was my real self. And that’s what they liked."

Leadership Development and Mentorship

Participating in Google's Coffee Club mentorship program was instrumental in Sheena's leadership growth.

[15:01] A: "Coffee Club played such a critical role. My role was very vague, managing an E-commerce tech integration, involving negotiations with legal and tech teams. The mentorship I received helped me simplify complex problems and execute effectively."

Sheena emphasizes the importance of strategic thinking and mentorship in navigating corporate landscapes and expanding her influence within Google.

Networking and Building Relationships

Networking emerged as a vital strategy for Sheena to thrive in a new and competitive environment.

[26:47] A: "Networking might just be a P0 in everybody's life. You have to make it a priority because there will always be 10 other things on your to-do list."

Sheena set a goal to build meaningful relationships both within and outside of Google, recognizing that diverse connections foster innovation and personal growth.

[28:07] A: "I set a goal to meet 10 meaningful people, ensuring these relationships were not just superficial LinkedIn connections but recurring, valuable conversations."

Career Advice and Lessons

Sheena imparts several radical career advices, drawing from her experiences and personal philosophies.

1. Progress Over Perfection

   [35:15] A: "Progress over perfection. Every corporate just wants progress. As long as you can progress, you're in a much better place than where you were yesterday."

2. Fail Fast and Learn

   [34:23] A: "It's okay to make mistakes. Failing fast allows you to learn quickly and grow. Celebrate failures as learning opportunities."

3. Embrace Pivots

   [36:31] A: "Make pivots often and fast. Reinvent how you accomplish tasks to stay innovative and avoid stagnation."

4. Build Fusion from Positive Influences

   [37:52] A: "Fusion is about integrating the best traits from different influences to create a better version of yourself."

Personal Passions and Integration

Sheena seamlessly integrates her passion for dancing with her professional life, demonstrating how personal interests can enhance leadership qualities.

[10:49] A: "Dancing centers me. It provides a mode of expression and instills discipline and creativity, which I root into my leadership style."

Her dance company, Rise, embodies this fusion, bringing together diverse talents and fostering a community grounded in shared passions.

Intuition and Self-Reflection

Maintaining a connection to her intuition has been crucial for Sheena's personal and professional growth.

[41:11] A: "Intuition is critical for building your own path. Mentorship helps you stay connected to your intuition by asking the right questions about what energizes you."

Sheena incorporates regular reflection into her routine to stay aligned with her inner knowing and ensure her actions resonate with her true self.

[42:53] A: "Every Friday at 1 pm, I block out time for weekly reflection to assess what energized me and how to align my next steps with my intuition."

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In the closing moments of the episode, Sheena emphasizes the importance of self-respect and intentional personal development.

[45:15] A: "Just jump over that fence as fast as you can because you're going to be so grateful for what you're going to do for yourself. Respect yourself, and others will respect you."

Sheena's journey from a challenging first meeting in a boardroom to becoming a respected leader at Google underscores the power of authenticity, resilience, and continuous personal growth. Her integration of passions, strategic networking, and commitment to progress over perfection provides a roadmap for listeners aspiring to join the elite 5% achievers.

[47:33] A: "Thank you for being you too. Inspiring leaders like you are examples of the positive influence that shapes our lives."

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Key Takeaways:

• Authenticity Matters: Embracing your true self can lead to unexpected and rewarding opportunities.
• Networking is Essential: Building meaningful and diverse relationships fosters innovation and personal growth.
• Progress Over Perfection: Focus on continuous improvement rather than unattainable perfection.
• Fail Fast: View failures as learning opportunities to accelerate growth.
• Integrate Passions: Incorporate personal interests into professional life to enhance leadership qualities.
• Follow Your Intuition: Regular self-reflection helps stay aligned with your true path and purpose.

Sheena's story is a testament to overcoming obstacles, the importance of authentic leadership, and the profound impact of building a supportive and diverse network. Her insights provide actionable strategies for anyone seeking to drive impact and achieve extraordinary success in their careers.

Transcript

[A]

My company is older than you, so if you are here to give me any advice or tell me how to run my business, here's the way out. That was the first thing he said to me. Stuck with me so much, Kat, because as a woman, as somebody who didn't know anything about the American culture, it brings me back to my first ever, like, client visit. And I'm going to share something really vulnerable here was I had a channel partner, like my partner manager when I was an account manager. First ever client visit. This was in Jacksonville, Florida, and my partner manager went into labor early so they couldn't travel with me. So it just had to be me. Now, first ever time, I'm like meeting American clients and I wasn't sure. I felt confident, but I wasn't sure about how did I deliver a business review as a partner manager. It was a stretch opportunity, but you don't know what you don't know. I walk into this room, it's a boardroom with like maybe 11 men over 50, not a single woman in the room. And there was this one guy who said something on the tune of how old are you? My company is older than you. So if you are here to give me any advice or tell me how to run my business, here's the way out. That was the first thing he said to me.

[B]

Welcome to Driving Impact. Gina, I'm so excited to see you today and I want to welcome you to the podcast to Driving impact, the top 5% method. Welcome to the Pod.

[A]

Thank you so much. Oh, my God. I feel like the whole like your entry song was like KJP in the house. And now that I see you, I'm so excited for this conversation.

[B]

I'm so excited as well. I feel like it's a ten year full circle. And for the audience who don't know, Sheena and I was on your LinkedIn reading some of the reviews and I was like, agreed because they said, she's so strategic, she's so smart. And I, from the day one that I met you, I always felt your energy, that you were, you knew what you wanted to do and you were unapologetic. And that I will always remember because it really left a strong impression. So I want to talk a little bit more. Sheena, you are a sales leader at Google, where you've been at for 11 years. So you're very tenured.

[A]

I sometimes feel like, oh, my gosh, it's been a decade. It's been more than a decade. But, yeah, still here, still thriving, still.

[B]

Learning, and it's amazing. And I want to just go back and understand, like, what was your career journey through the lens of you were not born in the US and now you're at the center of Silicon Valley, you work at Google, but you went up through the ranks. What were your career dreams as you were growing up in India?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So just like a little context to my upbringing, which might actually help us talk more, is I grew up in. In an apartment where I grew up with my sister, grew up with my parents, my grandparents, and even my great grandmother. Like, we all lived together, and I think it was seven or eight years old when my great grandmother passed. But we were a very full house and all decisions were dinner table conversations. So me and my sister would be like, if Sheena's going on a trip, like, should she go on a trip? Or like, is she going to take up commerce or medicine? Like, all of this was like very strongly opinionated family, you know, and what kind of a guy should they marry? And stuff like that were just like normal dinner conversations. So just as it comes to just careers, goals, dreams, they were all like very fluid discussions in my household. And everybody had a POV on what your strength is, what you could be, what you couldn't be. My sister actually mocked me as I was growing up. I loved the idea of a postman. And I was like, I want to be a postman. I want to be somebody who delivers mails.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Because I was just like, you know, it's such a beautiful feeling of receiving an emotional message. And it's just like, you are the deliver. You're the. You're sending and you're giving messages that are so beautiful and you're putting a smile on someone's face. I think that that was when I was a baby.

[B]

That's very interesting. So it feels like your family was. Everybody was very close. Yeah, that's number one. Number two, it feels like everything was on the table. So you go to dinner and then you got to get ready to be roasted. It's like you're on the hot seat every day.

[A]

Every day. And fun fact. So my grandfather actually started computer science in the institute that Sundar Pichai is from. Like, computer science was. Yeah. Back in the day, computer science was not as big of a function in India, but he was one of the founders as it came to computer science. And it was a very, like, academically tensed. I come from a very, like, academically obsessed family. Like, everything was all about studying. It was all about, like, focus on your academics and everything else. Will follow. Like, forget basketball, forget dancing. Like, just focus on studying. But I had this really strong passion for dancing. I started dancing at the age of four. Learned about, like, 13 dance forms to date.

[B]

And what were these dance forms?

[A]

So I'm actually a trained classical dancer in Kathak. I actually did my diplomas. I had to study and, like, write exams for dancing, but outside of that, also did a lot of jazz, contemporary, hip hop, salsa, you name it. As of last year, you would be so happy to know this cat actually one of the co founders. So it's three of us women who started this dance company, and one of them. Guess where I met her the first time was at the coffee club launch.

[B]

So. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So we didn't know each other back then, but we ended up having a lot of mutual friends, and now she's one of my closest friends, and we run a dance business together.

[B]

I did not know that you ran an. Okay, like, I gotta pause for a second. Couple of things. First, we share a common passion. I did six levels of salsa. I love salsa. My. Two of my. SO with three sisters. So my older sister was the first one to step into salsa, and then she got us all entrenched into salsa dancing, and then I went through the six levels, and. And then I became a little bit of a snob. I was like, you're not. You're very advanced. And I did a lot of hip hop dancing as well when I had my first career as a musician, but a French rapper. So we share these two dance forms together.

[A]

My gosh, Kat, the next time you're in the Bay Area, we're doing a dance party.

[B]

Oh, my God. We're gonna have to call Brenda. Yeah, I really. I love dancing salsa. I feel like it's so freeing. And sometimes I would go in Montreal in the summer. You have all these parks where they have open dance parties. So basically, you just go come in, and then random partners invite you to dance salsa. And I feel like that salsa is so freeing because, of course, you have to follow the method, but at the same time, you can improvise and you can dance and you can sweat. And I feel like, as humans, it brings us back into movement and freedom. So I want to hear more about. So a couple of things. What was the name of the institute that your grandfather funded where Sundar studied? I missed the name.

[A]

Iit. It's called iit. It's a really popular computer science school in India. He was an IIT Delhi, and that's where he started computer science. He was one of the first few professors, and then he became the head of the department. So, yeah, he's honestly one of my biggest role models to date. Always inspires me to get better and to always, like, keep gaining momentum wherever you are and think about growth.

[B]

That's excellent. And then when I didn't know that you were also a little startup entrepreneur. So when did you start that dance school and where is that dance school? Because I could. When I'm in the Bay Area, I could visit.

[A]

Yeah, it's in the Bay Area. We're in Fremont right now. And it's three women who started it. And it was literally, I was hosting a dinner at my house. It's called Rise. We. I was hosting dinner at my house. I love hosting. And these two other girlfriends of mine and their husbands were over, and we were asking the question of, hey, once you retire, what do you want to be doing? Right? I say all jobs pay the same. What do you want to be doing? And that has tied back to my childhood dream of starting a dance school for autistic children. I still want to do that. I do teach a couple of autistic children on the side today, but both of them are also dancers. And they're like, hey, while you wait to specialize into having a special studio for autistic children, why don't we just do that for, like, everybody right now? And then we can find a super specialty and you can get into it. So one of the co founders is a Krav Maga trainer. She's in, like, defense and all that. And one of them is also another classical dancer. You might actually know her. Do you remember Ruthika?

[B]

Yes. Darira. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

She is one of my co founders.

[B]

Yeah, she was also in the program.

[A]

I remember. Exactly. That's where we met.

[B]

Wow. Yes. She was on stage. So I was telling you before we started recording that I sent Brenda Lando, one of our common friends, a picture of everybody. It was a graduation or a kickoff. And so Ritukia was on stage. L' Oreal was on stage. Lawrence was there, Lawrence Cole, and then Jeff Mond, Mary, and then Brenda was on stage. And so they were all there, lined up Alston Yuda and Karina Canales. So there was the ojs, the original Coffee Club coaches and mentees. I was not aware that she was a dancer. That's incredible.

[A]

Also an amazing dancer. I'll send you some videos after. But yeah, it was just so beautiful that this dream as a child just evolved into something. And I feel like dancing centers you. It gives You a mode of expression, but it also makes you so disciplined in life. I feel like a lot of my leadership style has evolved. Coffee Club played a really big role because I met so many people through that and I learned so much. But dancing is something that I always go back to. Right. Like, there's a lot of practice that you require. There's a lot of discipline that you require. There's a lot of creativity and ideation that goes into it. So I like to just, like, root my passions into my leadership style, and that just makes it so much more authentic.

[B]

That's incredible. I want to hear the story of how you went from you wanted to be a postman or a post woman to deliver some news. We don't know what the news are about, but there is some news that she now wants to deliver to Dan. What brought you to move to Google in Silicon Valley and then go in that leadership program and then start this dancing school, but also go up through the ranks? Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I think Google came at a very unprecedented time for me, Kat. It wasn't something that was in the cards. I was never thinking about tech. I was always thinking. Thinking about something more creative. And a recruiter reached out to me right when I was at the lowest in my life. Like, I was a valedictorian in my college, and at least five or six companies came to my college for campus placements back in the day. I would reach the final round for each one of them and then get rejected for God knows what reason. It was honestly, like, it helped to feed my imposter a lot. And I was like, maybe I'm just not ready for a job, you know, like, maybe I just don't deserve to be employed. Maybe I'm not good enough. All of those thoughts of being an imposter just kept baking in. And I started. Started studying, going back to the roots of my family. They're like, just focus on studying. Everything else will follow. So there I was studying for my gmat. I was like, that's fine. I'll just go do my MBA and then come back into employment if I have to again. Right. When I was about to go into my GMAT exam, I remember a recruiter called me and said, would you be interested to apply for this role? And I didn't even know what that role was. It was called an account strategist. And they're like, are you aware of this role? And I was like, I just blabbered. I was like, oh, yeah. It's all about, like, strategy, and it has nothing to do with strategy. Like, it was literally you. And I know, success role.

[B]

It's a sales role.

[A]

Back in the day, that was a customer success role. So it was like picking up the phone for angry advertisers. And it just teaches you so much resilience and so much product. But I wasn't even sure what I was signing up for. And I was like, hell, yeah. Like, of course I know what this is.

[B]

It was Google at the time. Did you realize it was like a big company 11 years ago?

[A]

Yeah, but I just. Because I knew I'd been rejected so much, I took it so lightly. I was like, it's not gonna. It's probably gonna be the first or second round. They're gonna reject me. So I was so immune to rejection at that point. I had such a big wall in front of me because my confidence, I just felt very little and very small as an individual. And I just knew it wasn't happening. So I let go. You know, I just was like, you know, I'm not gonna make shit up, Just gonna be my real self. And I guess that's what they liked. Maybe I was just trying to be someone else as I was trying to interview. And they actually liked me for my raw, authentic self. And it somehow worked. I still. The imposter still keeps coming back, but I think that's what drives you. That's what makes you a better person. Because the moment you have self doubt, you're just going to work twice as harder to, like, get somewhere. Right. So it still comes back. But it was definitely not a strategic move where I was like, I got to get to Google. It was a very surprising pivot in my journey, how it got there. And then leadership was a very intentional move. The absolute opposite. I was very, very intentional about leadership, about people management. I was always very passionate about mentorship and the power of it. But I wanted to do it in a more formal setup. Again, I had the impulse.

[B]

I want to pause one second because there's something powerful that you shared, Sheena, about the fact that you let go when the opportunity with Google arose. Because sometimes we're very attached to an outcome. And because we're attached, there's an energy of desperation and energy of like some. We wear some masks. Maybe you were trying to show that we're better than. But you truly let go. And then you showed up and you were hired. You were hired for this job at Google, which is a life changer. I want to hear a bit more. So we met in 2015 and then you were like fast forward, you were in Mountain View and what was your role at the moment when you joined the Coffee Club?

[A]

I was in a really cool role actually. I was in channel partnerships and I was in the middle of moving from an account management kind of role to a partner manager kind of role. And that's where Coffee Club played such a critical role. Kat, because my role was very vague, was like we were setting our own okrs at that time because person was managing a very different portfolio. So I was managing an E. Com tech integration. So it involved negotiation, like legal teams, tech teams. And again, the imposter came back and I was like, man, I don't think I can do this because I don't think I'm equipped to lead such business critical conversations. But clearly my management saw that I was. But the mentorship I got at that time, I remember I chose the path of strategic thinking because I just wanted to simplify complex problems in my head and break them down so I could actually execute faster and I knew my strengths. Yeah, it was, yeah, it was. I think it was strategic thinking was one of the, one of the categories. And the goal was how do I simplify was related to the tech integration. And I was like, how do I simplify this and present it to the board of that business and actually get a contract for Google? It was a pretty big deal back in the day. And the mentor I got, I still am in touch with him. I still like connect with him every now and then. But it was so cool to get like a perspective that was not zoned in on just our kind of business. They were looking more holistically. They helped me make connections in different teams. I made this partnership like a Google wide. So then I got Google Cloud roped and I got Google Pay roped in. Like we made it really big with this partnership. So it was all thanks to just like having an extra additional outsider perspective, you know.

[B]

Wow. So you had a goal. So you face imposter syndrome when you were in this role in channel sales, you, you took a goal and in the program, the leadership program, which was strategic thinking to help you break down the elements to create compelling deal that you would sell to a partner and then you match with your coach and then you were able to expand the partnership beyond what you thought was possible. Because instead of just thinking about, okay, we have the channel sales offering, you offered a breadth of different partnerships inside Google Cloud and other business units that make it even more compelling. So what did you discover about yourself when you broke through that area in strategic thinking.

[A]

So there was this one really. I think we've all heard this advice in some shape or form, which is if you don't think you have a seat at the table, like, go pull a chair. But the additional advice I got from this mentor was don't even just think about pulling a chair. If you think you don't have a seat at that table, just go and make a new table. Just go in and start with the first chair and there'll be enough people who will get roped in, and then you will be at the lead of that table, not at the tail of that table. And that just stuck with me so much, Kat, because as a woman, as somebody who didn't know anything about the American culture, it brings me back to my first ever, like, client visit. And I'm going to share something really vulnerable here was I had a channel partner, like my partner manager when I was an account manager. First ever client visit. This was in Jacksonville, Florida. And my partner manager went into labor early, so they couldn't travel with me. So it just had to be me. Now, first ever time, I'm like, meeting American clients. And I wasn't sure. I felt confident, but I wasn't sure about how did I deliver a business review as a partner manager. It was a stretch opportunity, but you don't know what you don't know. I walk into this room, it's a board room with like maybe 11 men over 50, not a single woman in the room. And there's one guy who said something on the tune of how old are you? My company is older than you. So if you are here to give me any advice or tell me how to run my business, here's the way out. That was the first thing he said to me.

[B]

Like, no, alone. Like, wow. Yeah.

[A]

Didn't care about my name, nothing. It was just plain awkward. And literally, I remember I had to, like, run back to the restroom and cry and just to get it out of my system. But I came back really strong and I was like, hey, this is what I do know. You probably know your business best, and I'm going to rely on you for that. But I know Google Ads way more than you do. So you, if you are in the mindset of absorbing any information or knowledge that will actually help your business, I'm here for you. But if you're not, like, that's fine too. Like, I'm not here to impose. And that just, like, set the tone for me. I was shaking inside as I was saying this. I felt like, oh, my God. What's going to happen. But the beauty of just having a strong leadership. I knew my leadership will back me up for, you know, just like saying what I had to say. It was a really tough first customer call. Right. And that's why I thought I needed. I needed to be extra prepared more than just showing up on ads. Knowledge. I needed to know everything. So, yeah, it was. It was just so forming. When you need to build a new network in a new country to have mentors who will connect you with more people, who will tell you how to find people. Yeah, networking was another one that I went for. I did coffee club, I think three times as a mentee. And then I started becoming a mentor. And I coached so many too, but I loved it.

[B]

Thank you for. First, I acknowledge you for being vulnerable because this story is impressive. It's impressive. And unfortunately, it's very common, the fact that you arrived and as soon as you arrived, if you would have been a man, they might have said, oh, he's a young prodigy. He's a Mark Zuckerberg. He's a little genius. We're gonna listen to him. He's coming from the Bay Area. But because you were a woman, the first question is, how old, how old are you? And then if you think you're going to tell me how to run my business, take the door. I think that's the first. Like, it's very confronting. It's very challenging. And I think that was the moment when you really. You made a decision. Of course, you go. You acknowledge your emotions. You go in the bathroom, you cry. When you made a decision that you're going to stand your ground, that you're going to be fierce, unstoppable and unforgettable, because that was like a power move. And that's. That's impressive. So what gives you the courage to just come back and just stand your ground? Which, like, that's the Sheena that I know.

[A]

I just felt like there is, like, no harm, right? Like there's. There's no harm in just going and trying one time. Because going out of the door is an easy decision. And I can still take the door by just trying one more time. But I do think it's really important in today's world to make your own, like to stand up for yourself. You're always going to be your biggest advocate. You can have the best, biggest, like, sponsors behind closed doors, but if you're not advocating for yourself, they're not going to be interested to sponsor you either. Right. And I think I learned that earlier in my life, another, like, really actionable trick to just practice that, like, to owning your ground. I practice that even now. You know me like, I'm. I'm short. I'm like 5ft, 2 inches. And I think a big part of me is always like, oh, my God, like, what if when I meet people who are really tall, I automatically am like, oh, I feel smaller. Like, I want to make a power move, but something I say, or I at least have some of my sellers now say, who are scared to deliver a presentation or a pitch where they feel like the other party is going to be apprehensive. I always say lead with the most powerful statement. Like, always lead with something. Like, in the next 60 minutes, you're going to learn something that you are probably going to be really grateful that you observed and you actually listened and you were attentive. So if you could give me these 60 minutes, I'm going to share insights that you probably wouldn't have thought about or things that I can absolutely guarantee are going to add value to you. You're then not just saying it out in the room, you're telling yourself, you got this. Your focus is to just create value. And now that you've put it out in the universe, you are going to create value.

[B]

And, like, if the energy is low, though I don't necessarily match that energy. I can bring them towards a more elevated energy. But if you have somebody whose energy is, like, it's a test, he's going to confront you. He's going to figure out, I want to know if I'm talking to somebody I can respect and how you react in the first five minutes of how somebody attacks in brackets. But this is the test. They want to know.

[A]

That's the tone.

[B]

Yeah, can I. Am I going to be able to have an equal in this relationship, or am I going to be able to walk all over you? And I think that especially as a woman, a younger woman, a shorter woman, or whatever, what I've learned when I was more junior is that I learned to kind of bounce back, right? Like a sales conversation sometimes is a dance and the partner is. It's like salsa, right? The partner is going to flip you and then is going to pull you down, and are you going to follow or are you going to bounce back? And I feel like a lot of these conversations, because I was working in the same world as you, and there's a lot of women, agency owners. They were all. Most of them were men, and sometimes some women were also not necessarily the nicest but you have to be able to match the energy, but also elevate the energy. And I don't want to say dominate, but, like, you have to stand up for yourself such that you can direct the conversation, and you're always selling your value. I had some C levels who were shopping for houses. Like, literally, I was next to the CEO of one of the agencies, and he was shopping for $10 million houses during the meeting. And I would just. How do I reintegrate that person in the conversation? Because that's the art. How do you captivate the attention?

[A]

What did she say? What did she say to this guy?

[B]

I said, oh, I prefer this house, not this one. What do you think? And then he was like, oh, that's so cat.

[A]

That's so cat.

[B]

But you're gonna train people. I had a saying that was not the nicest saying, but because I knew that I was French Canadian, Haitian, and I have this very colorful personality, I eventually, when people were comfortable with me, I would say, you know, I'm like, mold. You don't know, but I'm gonna slowly sneak up on you. I'm gonna grow on you, and someday you're really gonna like me. So even if somebody would say that, oh, I don't know. So I would just make jokes. So humor was my ultimate weapon in sales conversations. I would try to kind of detonate if people were tense, frustrated, that they had a bad customer experience. I think all of these different tools to kind of lift up the air and clear the air, because some people. Some people are testing you. And really, some people, sometimes they bring the wound conversation and they bring their inner child of, like, I don't know, maybe you make them think of their sister or their mom or their ex partner. So I think there's a lot of things that happen in business that sometimes as a woman, we don't have. We don't know what the full context is, but it forces us to. To rise beyond and. And to read, to figure out what is the next power move that I'm gonna make in a way that I don't want to embrace this energy. I want to just send it. Yeah, but it seems like you had a lot of different breakthroughs. So you said you took networking as well as a goal in the program.

[A]

Yeah, networking was a big one, and it still is a really big one. I coach on networking now a lot, just because, one, I was just new in a continent, right? Like, I knew nobody. My family all moved to Ohio, which is the middle of nowhere, but I had to choose between the two shows I watched growing up. It was either Friends or Full House. And I decided to go full House. Cause I was like, let's just try California, because I don't know any better. Like, it sounds fun to have a convertible with, like, palm trees. But, you know, when I'm new and you're at the center of the mothership of the company, right? Like, there's so many people and there's so many smart people, and you're trying to prove yourself, you're. You're always going to get like, they're in. All of us are pretty type A. And we'd all go into like, how do we prove our value? And how do we go? Like, the moment I turn around, they'd be like, yep, this person brings it. Like, this person is absolutely a hustler. And I was so focused on that that I knew very quickly if I keep getting roped in, I will never be able to build my network. So I was very conscious about building my network. And the goal I set for myself is make me meet 10 people outside of ads, which is outside of a really big organization we have. Right.

[B]

Outside of ads, but still in the company or outside the company.

[A]

Outside and inside, I just wanted to meet as many people. So I met people like within Google, from Waymo, from Photos, from companies that were just doing cool things. Right. But not necessarily things we hear about. But then outside Google, I met so many people outside of tech as well, which was very big for me because it just felt like a cult. It still does. Everybody is either, like, working at big tech or at a startup, which is all rooted in tech. Right. And that's where we are. So I'm very mindful of meeting people who are also not in tech because that's where you can get a lot of ideas and bring them to your side of the world.

[B]

Innovation, it brings you, like, a fresh perspective on life. That's not just pure core tech innovation, Silicon Valley, but innovation from other places.

[A]

Exactly. So I set that goal for myself to make 10 meaningful relationships. Not just coffee chats, but 10 meaningful relationships. And the way I would measure that is not just having them connected on LinkedIn, but actually having a recurring conversation. So either that would be meeting for a drink, if they're in California, meeting them for a meal, or just having virtual chats that are not feeling like it's all just take. Because networking is all about giving and taking. Right. And as somebody who was. I was, what, 10 years younger, so I obviously had lesser to give from a career Perspective, you don't know.

[B]

I don't always agree. Sometimes the younger ones gives you the drive, the energy and something, the magic of not knowing to somebody who.

[A]

Exactly. I didn't know. I didn't know that was my perspective. And I was like, maybe I don't have enough to give. Right. Like that imposter creeps in. But I was so surprised at not all 10 were successful relationships, to be honest. But at least like six or seven of them are people I'm still very much in touch with. Yeah, yeah. And it's just so beautiful to have somebody to bounce ideas off of or just know their family and always just like catch up with them every once in a while. That's another reason I started studying at Stanford. I'm taking a year long course. It's called Lead at Stanford. What a beautiful course. I can go on and on about it. But another reason I took that course was because of networking. You get to meet people globally coming from like different walks of life. And now know a guy who started a diaper company in Brazil. I know a guy who runs mining in the Middle East. Like just imagine how do you get that perspective in life if you don't make an effort for networking? So big advocate for networking.

[B]

I think it's so important because I remember like a lot of people listening to the podcast can have been in companies for a very long time. Right. Let's say you work at Delta and you've been there for 10 years or eight years and sometimes we might have a tendency to be heads down taking care of the business. The reality is that with the layoffs in tech and beyond, suddenly you're pulled out of the plug and what are you left with? And if you haven't nurtured these, I call them truthful relationships and connections. Like I don't network. I just focus on a very small group of people that I want to see often and then keep in touch with other people as well and based on like passions and kindred interests and not even like what are they going to do for me, because it's not even about that. Some of the biggest opportunities I've had in my career were just like, like people that I really like genuinely. And we did some DNI work together and then they're the ones who invited me to apply to all these jobs. I'm like, well, I'm not looking for a job, but it's just like super interesting that the truthful relationships that people know what you're made of and you've been there for Them and they've been there for you. Those are people who want to open the doors even when you're not looking for doors. And I think that's the beauty of growing with your tribe, but building an authentic tribe over time and forcing yourself. Because I talked to a lot of people in big corporations and they're like, I want to launch a knitting business, but I just don't start. So just how do you get yourself out of the day to day out of the last email I need to answer to invest back in yourself. And I think what's powerful is that you've been able to create a structure and like from the coffee club, from the leadership program, doing it three times in a row. And different goals, like strategic thinking and networking are very different areas.

[A]

Absolutely. Yeah. I feel like networking might just be a P0 in everybody's life. Like, you have to make it a priority. You have to make time for it because there will always be 10 other things that you'll be like, oh, my to do list. If networking is not on your to do list, you just gotta write it again. At least make it.

[B]

I want to like, plus a million that because. And for people who are not doing engineering or tech, a P0 is like a big bug. It's urgent matter. It's something that you must do. It's number one priority. It's a P0. Sheena is like, it's networking is a P0. I agree. I agree.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I want to steer. So you have an amazing career.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Also balance, because you also launched a dance company on the side, which is beautiful based on your passion and values. I want to hear about what are the radical career advices you would have for any person. Like, if you look at your career from now to when you were like 15 years ago, like, the radical career advice. Yeah.

[A]

I think. I think the one thing that I would share, the first thing that comes to mind is it is absolutely okay. You gotta give your, like, give yourself permission to make mistakes. It's so hard. Like, we're so hard on ourselves. Way more than our managers are. Way more than our directors are. Way more than anybody is like, we're always harder on ourselves and you just gotta give yourself permission to be like, if this doesn't succeed, it's not the end of the world. And you will just learn so much. So failing fast is something that I can't remember. Kat, your team was called Wildcats, wasn't it?

[B]

Yeah, we had the Wildcats. We had Paisa Paisa. We had the Superhumans of la.

[A]

Yeah, I remember Wildcats. I remember we all used to do this, like, award called the Courageous Penguin, where we would basically give an award to somebody who has failed and who is just setting an example for, you know, it's okay. Like, we're. We don't just have to celebrate successes, we can celebrate failures. It's important to be recognized for not just failing, feeling confident about failing, but also sharing a learning. So nobody else is failing with the same mistake. So I think just failing fast and failing as a community is so important. And I think once you build that community, you learn from each other's mistakes way faster and you just grow faster. So that would be the first thing that I'd say. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

At all. As we expected. Nobody wants to say that, but that's a good way to find number two.

[A]

And just going back to, like, the idea of perfection. I think the progress over perfection. We say it, we don't. We don't really, like, stick to it. I don't think any corporate wants perfection. Every corporate just wants progress. Like, just as long as you can progress, you're in a much better place than where you were yesterday. So I felt like you just gave a little career advice right there. And I just wanted to make sure we highlighted that too. So progress over perfection, always. The second thing I would say is just make pivots often and fast. And what I mean by pivots is not just pivots in your role, like, you don't have to keep changing your jobs, but even the way you do your job, if you keep doing it the same way, it's either going to get monotonous or you're not learning out of it, anything out of it. So the way you think about a pivot doesn't have to be like, oh, I'm in sales today. How do I get into product management? It should be, even if I'm in sales, how do I build a mindset of strategy and bring, like, a whole new work stream to my job or to my role that I can scale with other people? So I would just say, like, pivots are so important. There are 20 different ways one task can be done. If you keep doing it the same way, you're either really bored or you're just not efficient. You're not like, innovating.

[B]

You're becoming stale. So what you're saying is to really keep reinventing yourself, but reinvent how you accomplish things as well. I like it, like, build new systems.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

For performance.

[A]

Yeah. Entertain yourself. That's. That's you Gotta. You gotta just keep it spicy.

[B]

Keep work spicy.

[A]

I think the last one goes back to networking, man. I don't think we should ever lose touch with people who've had a positive impact in your life. Like, there are people who you meet 15 years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago, last month who have just impacted you in a positive way. You gotta keep that energy very close to you and make an intentional effort to keep the positive influence in your life with you. I think, like, as an immigrant or as just somebody coming from two cultures, one thing that the one word that I'm really big on is fusion. And I think I bring fusion to my dancing, I bring fusion to my food. I bring fusion to my leadership. And I think if you just pick up every positive thing from what you've learned from different people in your life, you build this fusion, which is not. Not authentic. It's still a part of you, but you're adding on to such beautiful parts of what you like about other people and just making yourself better. So hang on, hang really tight to the positive influence in your life. Would be my third one.

[B]

That's amazing. I love this idea of fusion. It's like a fusion of the best. I see it like a flower, right? It's like you have all the different petals of the best, different qualities from people or behaviors from people. And then you embrace these and you make them yours and you're like, I am the flower of fusion from the fusion flower. I love it. You build yourself from the most positive and inspiring people in your life, and then you create a version of yourself that's an even better version of yourself. I think. I think that's amazing. So those were your radical career tips. I love them so much. And then thinking about your initial dreams of being a post woman. I'm not going to say a postman.

[A]

Anyway, I don't even know why. I don't know why I wanted to do it. It was so silly. There's so many.

[B]

Yeah, but you said you wanted to bring the news to people. So do you feel that you've accomplished this goal of like, knock, knock, knock. It's Sheena. I'm bringing good news. Do you feel like you're bringing. I mean, you're. You're the leader at Google in customer onboarding. Do you feel like there's a relationship between your initial dreams and what you're doing today?

[A]

You know, it's so funny. Like, I've never thought about it that way, but I think as a, as a people leader, you get so Much energy from doing good things for your team. Right. Like, as long as you're like, you know what, I'm doing something phenomenal for this person and I want to be the person who gets to share that news or I get to even be on the sidelines and just see this person succeed. It's all, it all comes back to just like seeing somebody smile from within. As long as you're able to see people be successful, be happy, I just think that's a goal, like accomplished. You're making the world a better place by just making people happier, making people feel more energized, more accomplished. And as a child, I didn't know what it was, but I think it was just the feeling of happiness or joy that like I had a lot of cousins and aunts who would write me greeting cards and I would receive a lot of mail growing up, which was really nice. I loved just like opening letters with my name on it. We don't get that. We get so much spam now.

[B]

You just get emails about requests.

[A]

I know, I know, it's so sad. But I used to love that, you know, just like hand. I'm a sucker for handwritten notes. And I just think the joy and the happiness that you get out of being personable, of being impactful in someone's life in any shape or form, I absolutely think I accomplished that as a dream.

[B]

Congratulation. I love it. I think what you said about bringing a smile, an inner smile to people and being a post woman to now like helping customers on board. Because we know onboarding is not that easy. I'm recording masterclasses and I'm trying to upload them and I'm like, why are the platforms so complicated? Is that what I'm supposed to launch? This is not very user friendly, but I think that's beautiful. And then I want to close it on something that's very important because some people might be early career, sometimes your later career, but some people might lose touch with their intuition and what I like to call your inner knowing. So what helped you throughout these years?

[A]

Yeah, you know, intuition is such a big part of growth is if you follow what your gut is saying, what you think is the right thing to do, even if it might not end up being the right thing to do, as long as you follow it. It is so critical to just like build your own path rather than following someone. You're like, oh, this feels like an accomplishing path. Let me just follow it. It's probably not going to work for you because that's not your intuition telling you something that's just hearsay. Right. And I think mentorship plays such a big role in getting in touch with your intuition. Because what mentors do and something that that leadership program did for me very often was ask very open ended questions about what energizes you, what are your strengths? Do you feel like you have those in your role? And when you repeat that often of what energizes you, you are more in touch with your intuition and you identify, hey, that' energizes me. Or that's something that drains me. And you can identify your intuition even faster than just being like, oh, maybe I'm just excited about it. Maybe, I don't know. You'll just know your intuition faster if you are in touch with your energy and knowing what your energy is. But you need an outside source to keep reminding you, I think, and a mentor or a sounding board or a coach can do that for you.

[B]

So mentor, sounding board and coach, have you found in your career different ways to be able to be tapped into your intuition to your inner knowing, however people want to call it, because it's so important. I remember coaching people sometimes that would be spiraling. So how do you help? Like have you found ways to help, like to make sure that it's the right voice that you're listening to?

[A]

Yeah, I think going back to like micro moments of your day, because most of our days are like 25 minute, 30 minute, block after block after block after block. It's just back to back meetings, right? Like you have no time to chill or to like even take a step back and be like, did I like this meeting? Did I need this meeting? But have I just emailed or paying? We just keep going. And I think the micro moments is where this is really special. So something I do is every Friday at 1pm I have a block on my calendar, which is a weekly reflection where I look at my calendar, I look at what could have not been a meeting or even just like what actually energized me. As long as you're keeping in check with your mind and your body, you just have to know what is, what's making you happy in this job, what's making you energized in this job. How do you find more of that in the next week? It'll keep taking you closer to that path of your intuition. But yeah, I think mentors just help make that space. When you are like, don't worry about it. Book over the 1pm that happens so much, right? You get Double booked. You don't make time for it after that, let's say. But a mentor is like a forcing function for me. I make sure they hold me accountable. Like I tell my manager, I send my expectations, I'm going to meet 10 new people this quarter. And I have my manager. I tell him like, hey, hold me accountable to doing this right. As long as you can hold yourself accountable through a person or through being self disciplined, which I have a hard time doing. So I just rely on my mentors for it. It's just important to listen to yourself and ask those questions more often.

[B]

I think it's beautiful because you bring us back to accountability. And before we started recording, you and I talked about the fact that I'm launching now the Coffee club, which is renamed the top 5% method because people are struggling in accomplishing their goals. Whatever the goal is, is it launching a side business, developing the skills to network or forcing yourself to meet ten people? But doesn't. It shouldn't sound like you're forcing yourself but meeting ten kindred souls and nurturing that network. So I think what do, what would you say to somebody like, okay, it was inside Google. It's not running in all the different business units. But then you have access to the same program in the top 5% minute. What would you say to somebody who's on the fence? It's like, oh, I don't know if I should join a program. And you know the swirl that happens before you sign up.

[A]

Yeah. You know, I would tell them, just jump over that fence as fast as you can because you're going to be so grateful for what you're going to do for yourself. The time that you make for yourself. The doubt that will this be beneficial for me? Like test it. It goes back to failing fast. You will make it work for you. If you believe in yourself and you make time for yourself. It is so often we deprioritize ourselves. Like, you'll cut your skin care by half, but you will make time for a business review. You know, like, or like over preparing for a presentation. Yeah. Or just not hit the gym. But if you don't make time for yourself, that's a disrespect to you. How is anybody going to respect you if you don't respect yourself?

[B]

That's so profound. Thank you so much, Sheena. I'm like so, so, so grateful for spending this time with you and seeing your full journey. It's just like I'll definitely, you know, so it's funny because I'm Supposed to. So Jenna just shared that she got promoted from being in the program and they're running it in Google Cloud. And she's like, okay, well, the next Bay Area coffee club, I'll invite you. And I'm like, I'm gonna fly. I'm like, 35 minutes away. I'm in LA. It's like 35 minutes in the air.

[A]

You've gotta come. And we gotta close that coffee club chapter with a dance party where we get to see your salsa.

[B]

I probably have videos. I'm like a bit of a crazy salsa dancer. I'm just like, I'm a queen. I'm like, I just. I. I think this. I think all of this space and it's. Anyway, but I'll let you know when I come to the Bay Area. And maybe you can always do. And maybe I can also. Like, once that happens in Google Cloud, you could also come in.

[A]

I'd love that. I'd love that.

[B]

Because they're in San Francisco.

[A]

Yeah, I'm in SF2. I work in SF2. But you know what? I'm so happy to see you. I feel like reconnecting after, what, like, six years? Feels like so much has changed, but also so much hasn't changed. Like, the fierceness in your V, the energy you bring. Nothing has changed. So happy to have, like, inspiring leaders like you earlier in my career because like I said, there's going to be positive influence you pull from people in your life, and it's important to have those examples. So thank you for being you too.

[B]

Thank you so much, Sheena. And you've been a light in my journey as well. And I think, I believe that you have. I believe my purpose is to bring the light to people who need the light. But I think there's a lot of different people who carry a lot of light. And sometimes we like to hang out together and bring the light to the people need it, whether it's a program, whether it's dance. Like, there's different ways to bring the light. So thank you for your contributions so much and then I'll keep you posted. Welcome to Driving Impact.