The 40-40-20 Rule of Networking. The Top Secrets I Shared with Lexi B.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Top 5% Method®

Episode: The 40-40-20 Rule of Networking. The Top Secrets I Shared with Lexi B.

Host: Katheline Jean-Pierre
Date: January 23, 2026
Guest/Co-Host: Lexi B (AI Security Product Manager at Microsoft)

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Overview of the Episode

This episode dives deep into the nuanced art and science of elite networking, career progression, and authentic relationship building. In a dynamic masterclass format, Katheline Jean-Pierre is interviewed by Lexi B, covering not only career acceleration and the “Top 5% Method®,” but also unconventional, actionable strategies that have propelled both women to career and personal fulfillment.

The discussion explores relationship “auditing,” the mother’s network (“mother hive”), automating life decisions, the essential 40-40-20 networking rule, and the idea that “your network is your generational wealth.” Lexi and Katheline share real-life stories, strategic frameworks, and the candid wisdom that top performers use to stand out—not just in their companies, but across industries.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Genuine Networking

• Lexi B’s Lunching Up & Lunching Down (04:34)

  • Building relationships outside formal settings (e.g., sharing a meal) leads to authentic, mutually beneficial connections.
  • “Start with actual human questions instead of trying to work out the problem.” – Lexi B [04:41]
  • Mutual trust and understanding accelerate outcomes in both personal and business realms.

• Network as Generational Wealth (11:08)

  • Katheline reframes networking from just a “net worth” focus to a form of generational wealth that can benefit you, your children, and beyond.

2. Relationship Auditing & Protecting Your Energy

• Annual Relationship Audit (12:55, 18:09)

  • Katheline annually evaluates which relationships nourish her and which deplete energy.
  • “Come January, the bottom of the list just vanishes.” – Katheline [18:09]
  • Strategy includes distancing or decisively ending relationships (both with friends and, when possible, at work) that aren’t aligned with one’s values and mission.

• Practical Strategies for Ending Relationships (21:36)

  • Katheline prefers not to ghost people; she may seek a conversation or simply reduce contact frequency.
  • “If I reach out to someone twice and they become swirly… I just cut you off.” [22:34]

3. Automating Decisions to Maximize Impact

• Wardrobe Automation as a Time/Decision Hack (13:21)
  • Both Katheline and Lexi simplify life by standardizing wardrobe choices, following the wisdom, “If it fits you and makes you look good, buy 10.” – Katheline [13:51]
  • This principle extends to other repetitive life decisions, freeing up cognitive bandwidth for more important matters.

4. The Mother Hive: Power Networks of Mothers

• Secret sauce of ‘Motherhood Networking’ (15:03, 16:18)
  • Exclusive support, honest advice, practical help, and accountability:
    • “You want to be my real friend? You gotta keep it real. If I catch you lying, you’re gonna be x-ed out.” – Katheline [17:41]
  • The “mother hive” provides a trustworthy, action-oriented community for personal and professional growth.

5. The 40-40-20 Rule of Networking

• Key Framework for Relationship-Building (26:07)
  • 40% of your networking should be with people “above” you in success (however you define it—career, fitness, wealth, etc.).
  • 40% is with peers: “it’s you, but in a different timeline.”
  • 20% is giving back, mentoring, and uplifting those earlier in the journey.
  • “I realized early in my career I would spend 80% of my time helping people… I swapped this and did the 40-40-20.” – Katheline [27:46]

6. The 33% Rule for Visibility and Growth

• Breakdown (28:53)
  • 33%: Excel at your craft (“doing amazing work, crushing it at your job”).
  • 33%: Talking about your work (strategic, graceful self-advocacy).
  • 33%: Building a truthful, relationship-rich network (small group or one-on-one, not just collecting business cards).
  • “Most of the best networks happen in one-on-one or small groups.” – Katheline [29:29]

7. Invisible Networks & Strategic Backchanneling

• Networking Behind the Scenes (30:39)
  • Importance of “backchanneling” with seniors/executives—e.g., following up after meetings via thoughtful emails or informal chats.
  • “Having access to the information when you need it happens in invisible networks.” – Katheline [32:11]

8. Professional Reputation & Performance

• Visibility and Legends (33:47)
  • Standout performance leads people to seek an audience with you or emulate your methods.
  • “People create legends and legends make your generational wealth.” – Katheline [35:57]
  • Continuous documentation and playbook-creation are essential parts of branding.

9. The Goal: Be “Referred In”, Not Just Apply

• Never Having to Apply for a Job (36:16)
  • Katheline has not applied for a job since 2006; every opportunity came from her network.
  • “Where I am today is because people knew of me, knew the quality of my work... I was referred in.” [37:04]

10. Motherhood as Career Accelerator

• Amplifier, Not Hindrance (38:54)
  • Parenthood forces focus, efficiency, and prioritization: “When you have a kid, you’re on the clock.” [38:59]
  • Only the most meaningful relationships, projects, and work survive in your schedule.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Networking:

  • “People buy from people, and people buy from people they like.” – Katheline [09:29]
  • “Your network is your generational wealth.” – Katheline [11:08]
  • “The exchange becomes mutual. You figure out how you can help them and they figure out how they can help you, short term and long term.” – Lexi B [04:53]

• On Relationship Audits:

  • “If I catch you lying, you’re going to be x-ed out. I might forgive once, but the second time, you’re gone.” – Katheline [17:41]

• On Cutting Ties Professionally:

  • “Sometimes you have to help them find their happy place, right? Or you have to manage them out.” – Katheline [23:43]

• On the 40-40-20 Rule:

  • “Choose wisely where you spend your time. That’s the 40%.” – Katheline [26:42]
  • “The last 20% is mentoring people, helping people out.” – Katheline [28:09]

• On Professional Visibility:

  • “33% talking about the amazing work that you’re doing, but doing it gracefully… you can do it in posts, you can do it to superiors—strategically.” – Katheline [28:53]

• On Career Regret:

  • “My only career regret is not networking more… not just working the room, but really stretching to build deeper relationships.” – Katheline [37:53]

• On Motherhood & Efficiency:

  • “You want a job to be done? Give it to a mom. Because we don’t have time to play.” – Katheline [38:59]
  • “It forced me to streamline… People wanna put you on busy work, and you’re like, ‘This girl doesn’t do busy work.’” – Katheline [39:30]

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Timestamps for Essential Segments

• [04:34] — Lexi’s introduction of “Lunching Up & Down” concept
• [09:29] — Katheline on why relationships matter in sales and beyond
• [11:08] — "Your network is your generational wealth"
• [13:21] — Wardrobe automation & energy management
• [15:03]/[16:18] — Power of the “mother hive”
• [18:09] — Relationship audit: when & how Katheline does it
• [21:36] — How to consciously distance or end a relationship
• [26:07] — Katheline introduces the 40-40-20 rule
• [28:53] — The 33% rule on work, visibility, and network
• [30:39] — The “backchanneling”/invisible networking discussion
• [33:47] — On performance and professional brand/legend-building
• [36:16] — Never having to apply for a job
• [38:54] — Motherhood as a career amplifier

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Tone and Language

• The conversation is informal, direct, and peppered with humor, candor, and moments of strong affirmation.
• Speakers shift between practical advice and personal storytelling, keeping the energy high and the conversation both relatable and actionable.
• There is frequent mutual admiration and encouragement, and a strong emphasis on authenticity and clarity of purpose.

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Final Takeaways

• Building, managing, and curating relationships—at work and in life—is as strategic and important as developing core professional skills.
• Use the 40-40-20 rule to intentionally diversify your network; use the 33% rule to focus on excellence, visibility, and meaningful connection.
• Be visible, but don’t rely on group settings—one-on-one relationships and small groups wield disproportionate power.
• Audit your relationships as rigorously as you audit work processes. Protect your energy to achieve both professional and personal growth.
• Your ultimate career flex? Never having to apply for a job again.

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Memorable Sign-off:

“Thank you for inviting me. Thank you. Think about 40-40-20, and the 33% rule, don’t play YOLO.” – Katheline Jean-Pierre [40:35]

Transcript

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

Hello, hello, hello, hello. Top 5% collective. This is Kathleen, your podcast host. And today I want to introduce an episode that had so much fun recording with Lexi B. She came to the POD a couple of months, even a year ago, but this one is different. We did and co hosted a masterclass where she interviewed me about career acceleration strategies. I thought, you know what Lexi, give me the recording, I'll push it to the podcast because I want to make sure that you reconnect through all this good content that's going to be coming your way. So I hope you enjoy it, I hope you find it helpful and you enjoy that episode with my girl, Lexi B. Who's the AI Security Product manager at Microsoft. Have a good listen. Bye bye. Foreign. Impact.

[Kimberly]

How do you get comfortable? Like this is not your typical everyday training. This is candid, relaxed, bite sized conversations where you can learn and leave inspired. Maybe laugh a little bit. Keep it real, keep it practical, keep it fun. And today I had the absolute pleasure of, of introducing two powerhouse leaders. So let me go ahead and get started and introduce these incredible women. So first y', all, it's, it's lunch up, lunchtime with Lexi. It is Lexi B. She's a strategic tech leader. She works in what she calls the risky risk space, which is basically building creative solutions for AI problems. And she has over 15 years of experience solving tech problems across engineering, legal, compliance and regulatory spaces for global organizations like Twitter, Facebook, Airbnb and Netapp. She is a trusted advisor to C suite executives. She's known for her integrity, her emotional intelligence and her ability to manage confidential information at the highest level. She's also a pragmatic people leader with over 8 years leading diverse teams and critical company wide cross functional programs to streamline operations, prevent and manage risk and grow revenue. What a stacked resume. I'm like literally obsessed. But basically Lexi operates where most people are afraid to go. And she does it with grace and she does it with results. The other end of our amazing duo here, Kathleen Jean Pierre, innovative catalyst. She is drawn to bold future forward missions. The kind that demand reinvention and that challenge the status quo. She thrives on that intersection of innovation and impact. I'm a little obsessed with that line. So at LinkedIn she led, never done before, initiatives across venture, electric vehicles, B2B retail finances, DeFi defi segments. At Google, she drove early adoption of AI powered marketing solutions that delivered double and triple digit growth to a billion dollars. Big bets are where she feels most alive and thrives. So whether she's shaping new business frontiers or pioneering industry shifts before they come mainstream. That is where she thrives. And here's one other thing that makes her even more extraordinary is she's coached more than 15,000 thousand women at Google through a program that continues to empower talent around the world. Guiding that next generation and then letting them step into their potential is not just part of her work. It is her life mission. Talk about some powerhouse figures. These two are going to take us through some highs, some lows. Everything in between professional growth, personal growth, and whether you are listening here, you're navigating career pivots, you're scaling your business, or you're just looking for a little motivation, this session is designed to leave you energized and ready to take action. So before we dive in, just the last housekeeping. Anytime in the chat, you have aha, aha moment. You're like, oh, my gosh, yes, I needed to hear that. You keep that chat going. That keeps the energy going like crazy. If you have a question at any time, ladies are gonna do a live Q and A. So there's a little question box at the bottom of your screen. It's got a little question mark on it. It says Q and A. Pop any questions in there as we go. And they're gonna answer them live at the end. Are y' all excited? Like, let me know one more time in the chat that you're ready for some real talk, some real stories and real strategies from these two women who

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

have done the work.

[Kimberly]

Lexi, you do not sound exhausted. You sound freaking, like, power stacked. And that's amazing. Without further delay, I'm going to mute myself, and I'm going to just be quiet and absorb all the energy. Please take it away, you brilliant ladies.

[Lexi B]

Awesome. Thank you so much, Kimberly. So my name is Lexi B. Thank you so much for that beautiful intro. And I founded this concept of lunching up and lunching down. Basically, what it means is that lunching up and lunching down, building relationships with people is the most effective way to actually get things done. And this is how it works. You've got a problem, invite someone to a meal, step outside the classroom, the boardroom, the conference room, and start with actual human questions instead of starting to try to work out the problem. How does this work affect you? What do you need? How can I help you? That's when you'll actually uncover what the root of the issue is, and you will see this person as a human and not just their job title. Once you understand that, you can align their goals with yours and vice Versa. The exchange becomes mutual. You figure out how you can help them and they figure out how they can help you, short term and long term. Suddenly, the work moves faster, the relationship deepens, and trust is built not because of a memo or another conversation, but because you took the time to lunch up and lunch down. So, Miss Kathleen Queen. Kathleen. The Kathleen. How are you, sis?

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

I'm doing so great. I'm so excited to be here. Hi to everyone. I love to see all the cities. In the chat, I'm going to say hi. Special hello to Alameda because I used to live in Silicon Valley and it reminds me so many beautiful memories. Yes. I'm excited to be here.

[Lexi B]

I mean, people talking about that. So I, I do live in the Silicon Valley. I live in Oakland and I always tell people Alameda is where my heart is. I used to live in Alameda. I rented. For folks who don't know, Alameda looks like a Hallmark Christmas movie all year long without the snow. Yes.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

It's the best kept secret. It's. I, I just could. I think Berkeley as well, in Oakland and all. So many. I love Los Altos. Here we go. I'm gonna say it now.

[Lexi B]

You do need about like 4.5 mil for a Victorian in Alameda. So just get your coins right, you know, add a couple together. But it's gorgeous. It's amazing. It's amazing.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

It's amazing.

[Lexi B]

So, Kathleen, before we get into this topic, which I know that you are a star at, I wanted to ask you, do you remember how we met?

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

Oh, my gosh, I don't know if we met in the DMs on LinkedIn. And then I invited you to my podcast. No.

[Lexi B]

Where you spoke at an event for black women on boards. And I was six week postpartum. I did not know my name, but I was in the program and I said, let me, let me show up. And I was camera off. And you were doing a presentation on how to sell yourself to this group of women. And I remember I was the only person camera off. I had no shame in the game because I was six weeks postpartum and I was like, I'm trying to listen to half of it. I'm trying to understand what's going on as my hormones are at all these varying levels that are not stable. But I, I'll be frank with you. I forgot what you said about pitching yourself. But I remember leaving and saying, I want, I want to be her friend because she is dope. And I added you on LinkedIn and. And then I found out that you were working at LinkedIn and I was at Microsoft, which is like your, it's like your parent company.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

Yeah.

[Lexi B]

So then I slid in your DMs at work and that's what happened.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

Yeah, that's amazing. Listen, but that's an example first of powerful networking because out of the group, because it was the board rising, so the future board members that would be the next to join eventually. Black women on board. So you and another girl are the two that I speak to. Right. And that's powerful because you have the strongest LinkedIn presence and it's not a bias here. But I remember that you stroke really my attention. You got my attention because I started reading your post and I was like, who's this woman? Because you would just post something with like these emojis and it was pretty unique and very bold and it was like, so that's really powerful networking because then I launched my podcast and then we reach a hundred thousand downloads and, and then you were invited. Right? Some people pay to play, some people are just invited. So. And that's an example of like having a seat at the table by really standing out and really owning your power and your voice.

[Lexi B]

I've been a fan for you for a long time, even in my postpartum haze where I barely knew how to spell my name. But I knew that you were phenomenal. That's a very big deal.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

Thank you.

[Lexi B]

So my first question for you is, you have been a sales leader in some of the world's largest consumer based companies. Right? Like these are companies that when people go home to their family for the holiday season and say I work there, everyone at the table knows what it is from the 3 year old all the way to like great uncle Tyrone who forgot where his nose was. But they, but he knows exactly what Google is. Right. And I think sales is so interesting because sales, when you look at any other industry, you actually have to build relationships in order to sell. There is no selling without relationship building. So my question for you is why do you think relationships are so, so important in any industry? Let's just start there.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

Yeah, yeah, I think. And I can start at home with sales is. Listen, I was, I went in sales from account manager to managing director and I've learned very early on because I'm, I'm a little bit, I'm somebody who can feel the energies in the room. So, so I, I learned very early on that if people like you, they're going to buy from you. Ideally your solution has to work. But I'm Going to give you an example. When I was selling in Montreal, I would go work from an agency and I would sit there and because I was present, like just proximity and they liked me because I was the salesperson paying for the happy hours and whatnot, they would say, oh, I have an extra a hundred thousand dollars. You want me to put it on YouTube? Do you want me to. So it's just the proximity and because also I was not coming with a condescending tone. Ah, what? We have the best platform and you're. No, it's just like I would really work at their level. We would partner together and be able to unlock opportunities. So I believe people buy from people and people buy from people they like. So if they don't like you, they're going to find a way to weasel out of buying from you or just reducing the budget. And that's just basic one on one. If you want to survive in sales, if they don't really need you, so they're going to avoid you at all costs. And I think the power of networking back to your question is, is that how can you build real relationships with people knowing that we are search for time, we all have a million pings or emails or priorities. And there's a strategy to be able to navigate your life such that I like to automate as much as possible and simplify. Automate my wardrobe, automate my relationships. And one way I've done to do it is I audit my relationships every year. So when I moved, I was in the Bay Area for multiple years. So I'm from Montreal, Quebec, Bonjour to monde. And when I moved from Montreal, Kimberly's laughing. I wanted to make you laugh. So when I moved from Quebec, I had to reinvent myself and create a new community from scratch. And when I moved from the Bay Area to LA after one year, just like you, I had a baby. I moved in 2018, I had a baby in 2020 and then it was Covid and then I was at home and then I reflected where were my best relationships come from? And I see relationships not just like, oh, who's the most powerful in this? I look at people saying your net worth network is your network. No, your network is your generational wealth. It's going to dictate if your ba. Your babies are going to be trust fund babies. I'm telling you, my baby's a trust fund baby. But don't go tell him that because otherwise it's never going to work. You know, the trust fund babies don't know that.

[Lexi B]

He doesn't have to struggle. Don't tell him. You got to give him a little bit of resilience. Give him a little. A little. You know what I mean?

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

I'm his mom, so I make. I make him hustle. This kid is hustling as you get a long list of tasks. So. But something that's important is I had to audit and figure out what give gave me energy, what did not give me energy. And I reflected. There were two different organizations where I met the most valuable people for me. I reflected, and I realized there's one community, and it was not my neighbors who wanted to come for free bites and free wine and look at my kitchen. So it was not my neighbors. It was. There was one group from 2019 to today that has brought the richest network to me of women, powerful women, also oftentimes our mothers who are reinventing the world. Those are people who are givers. People are going to. When I was nine months pregnant, I didn't know what to do. I had a little baby in Covid, and, you know, you're kind of freaking out. And they both would give me gifts, but also give me the gifts of, like, bringing croissants and chocolatine and coffee and just presents and advice, and that's very important. So I believe that you have networking seasons, but you want to figure out what is going to work for you such that you don't become isolated. Right. At that time, I was not going to run and go to all these industry meetings or even meetups online. I was networking with my mom, hive, and to this day, they're still very present in my life.

[Lexi B]

Tell me how you automate your wardrobe. Because I tell people that I automate my wardrobe because my wardrobe is 80% all black or all brown. I was the monochrome queen before it was cool two years ago. So one. You're welcome. Okay. We've been doing that in my house for years, and I do not wear a lot of color. And part of it was that I had to learn how to automate my wardrobe, because I did not want to spend time trying to figure it out. But tell me about yours. I think automated is a very fascinating subject.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

So my mom. My mom's name is Martine. She's a real, real Haitian woman, very driven, and she's like, when you find something that fits you and makes you look good, you buy at least five of them. So basically, if I have this dress and it fits me, I'm going to go and buy 10, because I know three years later, I'm going to regret not having 10 copies because it's going to get old. And she was right. So basically, I have a dress that I really like. I bought it in black, right? It's high quality material from view. I bought it in another color that's kind of like lavender. And then I have it like a grayscale. Oh, bonjour. Oh. So it's super important to have, like, if you find. If I have. I like this, this is coming to an end. I don't think I'm going to get another one. But I should have bought it in green, in blue, in white, because this is the most convenient thing. When I used to do work at LinkedIn and go from like the west coast to the east coast and the west coast to the east coast. This, you don't need to iron it. You don't have to think about it. But it's getting old. I have to check. So it's buy 10 if it fits you and make you look like a billion dollars, just buy 10 of it. That's it. Oh, somebody's husband is Haitian. Look at that. Look at all the families on that.

[Lexi B]

What about the mother hive? You know, before I became a mom, I was always mom adjacent. I knew women who had children. I knew powerful men and women who had children and. Or were primary parents. But it wasn't until I actually had my own child where I realized the secrecy of. I call it the witchcraft of womanhood. And I say that with so much respect because in my next life, I really do wanna be a witch. But there's something about this portal that opens if you have a connection to get to the seat at the table with high powered women who are mothers. And for the record, this is not a billboard to become a motherboard. It is not. You have the right to do whatever you want with your body.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

You can do whatever you want.

[Lexi B]

Definitely don't want to be moms. And every time that you want to be a mom, go plan a trip. Just go get on a plane, do things that moms can't do on a whim to remind yourself this is what non motherhood is. But tell me more about that mother hive. Because it is something very fascinating and very powerful that many people do not talk about, which is high powered women who are mothers in a room helping each other. It's wild.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

I think it's so. Because you have to find your. You have to find your hive. So people like you who are driven in whatever they are driven. Like I have a girlfriend, she's A lawyer. She has three kids, right? But she's like, I'm going to be a commissioner. I'm going to be a judge. She's like the power networker of my city. She organizes things. It's like, I just. I'm like, you're the mayor of the city or what? So it's knowing that she's a power networker. I can just flock around to and attend all her events. And I just. Because I like to drop by. I don't like to organize the events, but I think it's knowing that you have somebody like that who also has a strong judgment, who's going to keep you in check, who's going to be there for you. We're going to have meal trains. So it's. You need to have a very strong support network that's not going to be your husband, Right? And sometimes you need to have people understand you. Right? And sometimes it'll be moms. And you need friends who don't have kids as well, because sometimes you need to go out and you need to have fun, and you need to be able to turn up. You don't want to be like, no, I'm talking. I'm going to keep it real. Like, I like my girlfriends who are moms. I also like my girlfriends who don't have kids, because it's like, when are you free? It's like, Leo. And then we just go. And I have a girlfriend I go on trips with. And so you have to. You have to organize your life, right? Networking professionally, but also personally. What gives you energy, right? I have a girlfriend who's going to. Is that. Was that Art Basil and Martha's Vineyard. And so you need this whole network such that you can just drop in when it suits you so that you're not just stuck in one single identity, because we are multifaceted. So for my mom hive, I wanted people that I could trust. I wanted people that are going to give me the real deal. Me. You want to be my real friend? You got to keep it real. If I catch you lying, you're going to be xed out. I might forgive once, but the second time, you're going to be xed out. Because I audit my relationships every single year. Come January, the bottom of the list just vanishes.

[Lexi B]

Tell me about that. I've actually never heard someone say they audit their relationships every single year. And that is a tidbit that I'm going to take. I may need to do some auditing in the next three, you know, three weeks, because I've already selected my 2026 word. I always. Am I in? The word is access. And so I think that I may have to do this audit. But how. Let's. Let's go deeper. When did you start doing this audit? How did this idea come about? And how do you do it? Break it down for us. This is fantastic.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

I like Jacqueline. Is it Jacqueline Jones from LinkedIn? That mom voice came out. If I catch you. Oh, yeah, that's what I was yelling at my son yesterday. What did you just do? And he was like, so basically a couple of things, right? I feel energies, and I don't. Jacqueline, good to see you. I feel I became. Since becoming a mom, since I didn't know I was going to talk about becoming a. Since becoming a mom, I became way more intuitive, way more sensitive to people's energies, so I would feel energies. So I met this woman when I was. When I moved to la. I really liked her. She was brilliant. She was beautiful. Her husband, they had 10 cars like Tesla sparked. She lied once at the dinner table about how her and I met once. I know it's gonna sound crazy. She said, oh, Kathleen was on Facebook. Nah, nah, nah. And she said, oh, we should be friends and stuff. I'm like, why would she lie about this? And then after that, I was invited to do a documentary about my career. I invited her, and then she went on camera and said something I like, that was inappropriate. And I was like, that's it. I thought about it. I reached out and I was like, I'm out. I don't care how many cars you have parked. I don't care if you have the nicest house in the neighborhood, you're out. Because if I'm spending as much energy thinking this is toxic, thinking about you and why you said what you said. And then somebody told me, psychotic people lie about things that they don't need to lie about. And I was like, oh, maybe that's what it is. But I just. I can't. I cannot. I cannot. I have to protect my energy, and I cannot surround myself with people where I'm never sure where the job is going to come from. I'm not that person. I'm not interested in surrounding. And once you clean that, your real self blossoms and you become who you're meant to be. So, yeah, I audit, but it's not like. It's not like it doesn't take me a lot of time to figure it out.

[Lexi B]

You're like me, how you get along, because, you know, I'm the person My mom, ever since I was little, would always tell me that I cut people off too quickly because I'm the person like, oh, you looked at me wrong. It's a rat. I just don't have time to go deeper into why this happened. So we just. We just got to let go, let flow. Who gave you this idea? How was this idea developed initially for you? Was it. Was it your Haitian mother? Was it an auntie? Or was it. Was it you being like, I got to let some people go and that's okay.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

I care about people a lot and too much, right? If I manage a team, I'm going to care about people. So I'm like a bit of an empath. So when you're an empath, you can't. You want to carry the world, but you gotta. You gotta offload those babies, girl, or you're gonna go down. Right? So you're gonna go down. You have to have this, your shield of light. And then. And then really, you have to protect your energy. So for me, it's just a question of like, I know what my life purpose is. I know what I'm here to do, and to be able to do my work, I need to clear myself from toxic people, environments, whatever that doesn't work. I need to let it go.

[Lexi B]

A question in the chat that's very relevant. Someone asked, so how do you actually do it when it's time to let people go? Is it a conversation? Is it just a loving, Like, I may not respond to your text immediately anymore. What does that behavior look like?

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

I'm not a ghoster, so I don't ghost. I'm going to reach out and say, hey, do you have time to talk? And normally the.

[Lexi B]

Oh, you. Oh, you. You like professionally divorce people like you, conscious, uncouple.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

I don't necessarily want to have a meeting with every single person that has been hexed out.

[Lexi B]

Yeah.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

It's not like there's a couple of things, right? You can reduce the frequency, right? Because there's some people, like you're going to see them. Some people. It's a hard cut off. Professional Kimberly's like, professional divorce, that's another topic we can talk about. But it's the frequency. You can reduce the frequency, right? If those people are part of your blood family. So you might want to distance yourself. If those are people that. It really takes a lot of energy and time, then you have to do a hard cut off. If I reach out to someone twice and they become swirly and they don't want to talk I'm just going to cut you off and. And then I'm going to look at you in the street like we've never seen each other or at the gym. So.

[Lexi B]

So you're a. You're a sniper about it. You're like, oh, you. Who are you? Yes, that's.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

No, but if I reach out with. I'm a kind heart, right? If I reach out, I say, let's talk, let's catch up and stuff. And then you, you know, serpents are going to be serpents. There's nothing you can do, right? And they're not going to change. So you got to remove yourself from the environment. So otherwise they're going to buy.

[Lexi B]

What about, jokes aside, what about when you have to professionally cut colleagues off? Because I've had to do this. And I do think that, you know, we are all trained in this idea of like, don't burn a bridge. And I always tell people, sometimes you got to blow that thing up, but what weapon you use to blow it up? Silence can blow up a bridge. You know, machine guns can blow up a grid bridge. Younger Lexi, you would have loved her. Kathleen, Like, I was like guns a blazing at work. And I've become older, wiser. My knees can't go as low as they used to. I'm a little more stealth about it. But I really would like to know from your opinion when, when it's time to let go of a professional relationship where it's like, no, what's happening is bigger than just like, well, I'll just see you sometime, maybe at a professional event. How do you handle that? Because it's just as important to understand how to decouple than it is to how to come together and network, I think.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

So sometimes some of those people are going to be your reports. So you can't really decouple. Like, I've had some peers, like, help them find their next play, help them find their next. Help them find their happy place. Right. But it's what, what it is, is that you have to. Sometimes you have to send back the energy because you can't just cut off a report unless it's impacting their performance, the team performance. Oftentimes it does. Right? So some people are energy vampires and it's unproductive. So you have to help them find their happy place, as the person said. Or are you going to help them by managing them out or finding whatever it is or seeking deeper therapy? Because they all go to therapy, but I don't think they're listening. So I think what's important is you, you can't, you have to be professional about it in a way that you, if there's behaviors that are not working, you have to coach them towards the behavior and document the behavior. But you can't, if you, I've had reports that their goal in life was to be angry, right. And then people would come and complain that, oh, this person is always bringing so much anger and negativity and then they don't want to do jail. Well, that's actually a reason to take some actions in terms of performance. Right. So we'd have to be serious because if it's at work, there's a way to manage performance such that people come to a breakthrough and you realize, listen, I didn't realize that my way of looking at things was actually bringing the team down. Yes, you are bringing the team down. So we just have to make sure that we decouple, we understand what the issues are and we can act accordingly.

[Lexi B]

So Kathleen, my next question for you really revolves around the strategy of your relationships. I think because of social media we, we have access to millions of people a day and there's only 24 hours in a day. And so whenever I talk to folks about lunching up, lunching down, grabbing a meal, networking, I receive a lot of feedback about where do I, who, who do I pick? Who do I pick to invite to this meal or invite to this coffee because there's just so many humans that I have access to, it's overwhelming. So I wanted to ask you that because I think this conversation has gone not from like how to network inside a company but how to really utilize your network outside of where you are working. How do you select the new possible

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

friend to Kathleen, you want to know who's that girl?

[Lexi B]

Exactly.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

Ok. Okay. Couple of things. I have a rule that's called 40, 40, 20. Okay. That's, that's the secret rules only for people on this call. And it's first you want to look at networking with people 40% of your time networking with people who have above a view in terms of success. And I talked about success. Success could be like super duper fit friends with eight pack abs because if you hang out with them, I'm telling you, your naturals and, and hot dogs are not going to fly.

[Lexi B]

You're going to eat, you're not going to eat and then, and they're only going to take you on hikes, they're

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

going to take you on all those places where you're going to get fit and suddenly you're fitter. And then 40% with people are like more successful than you in one area. Let's say it's money because everybody cares about money. So for me, how I did it is I realized I was going to a gym where my clients were there. So I had, I was working with the private equity firms and there was the angry partner who was there all the time. He how are you Rob? And then what happens in that gym? There were lots of CEOs so I spent inordinate amounts there. And also I, I realized that one of my friends who sold, my friend actually was my customer at Google who sold his agency for a hundred plus million was there. So then I, I, I would talk to him all the time. So it doesn't come a meeting. It does, it's like it accelerates your life because the people you chit chat with at the water fountain are looking to be fit, right? And I, I'd rather be the less fit person at the gym, right? They, and then they're successful and they're in the top 5% bracket or top 1% really. And they talk about their stories and stuff. And so I would go to this gym for seven years where all the CEOs were. Choose wisely where you spend your time. That's the 40%. The second 40% and that's super important. You want to spend the second 40% with people like you, your peers, right? Let's say we talk about money or network, whatever it is, because sometimes we don't spend enough time spreading ourselves because it's you, but in a different timeline, it's you in a different network, right? They get access to different people that you don't get access to. You get access to your people. But imagine if you spend 40% of your time with people at the same level as you level of success, whatever you're looking for, right? You suddenly can triplicate yourself, okay? And then the last 20% is mentoring people, helping people out. Because what I realized early in my career I would spend 80% of my time helping people and giving my time to. But the thing is that I swapped this and I did the 40, 40, 20. So this is my 40 40, 4020 plan. The second rule I have second secret only for people on this call is a 33% rule. So what is the 33% rule? So 33% of your time doing amazing work like crushing it at your job. And that's a whole strategy that we might not talk about today. The second 33% is talking about the amazing work that you're doing right, but doing it gracefully. You can do it in post, you can do it to the superiors. You don't want the haters to be too aware of it. So you have to navigate very craftfully. And then the other 33% is building a rich truthful network. And most of the networks happen. The best networks is one on one or small groups. Not like, like the working the room thing. I would come back at home with a box. I'm going to pull a box. That has nothing to do with this. I would come back with a box full of business cards and then I would move from location with location with those business cards. And I was like, who's this person? This is. No, this is mindless. I'm talking about the top 5% people. The network, one on one, dinner, coffee, lunch. The principle, never eating alone is real. 30, 33% being the best at your craft. 33% talking about being the best, being visible, the right places, right time. And the other 33% is who listened up. How do you accomplish this with collocated work environments? Okay, so the third 33% is so doing the first one is being the best. Second talking about it. Third one is networking, but really networking towards sponsorship. Finding people who are going to talk about you when you're not in the room. How do you accomplish this with. With co located work environments? Oh, this is not happening in the open, my friend Leah Everett. This is. The tea is being spilled in this group chat. We're not spilling this.

[Lexi B]

We don't, we don't do this in the work hall way or in the zoom to the team. This is. You got it. You got to get to that happy hour. Okay, this is.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

Yeah, I'm going to tell you this story. Okay. People think that people in meetings were the loudest ones are the ones who stand up. Oh, let's say there's a meeting. I remember I was at Google. There was a meeting, there was a complex problem. We had a managing director who was like, but who's going to help me solve that problem? Then people would talk. And then my very slick colleague was sent an email to the managing director. All organized before ChatGPT and stuff. All organized like Bob, I thought about your problem. It's something I've been thinking about for a long time. Here are my three thoughts about how to solve that problem. And he would send the email and then book a 15, let's talk about it for 15 minutes. And it was all, well, he would not even talk in the room. He would just make faces. And he was very close to the managing director. The thing that people don't know is me too. I got game. So with my game, managing director added me. He's like, I was already talking to Kathleen about it. Yeah. Because I know the networking game. He added me to the setting. I was like, ah, that's what you're doing. So basically what's important to know is there's different ways to navigate and it doesn't have to be at a formal networking event, it doesn't have to be at a happy hour. There's so many different ways. Right. The 40, 40, 20, the 33% rule are ways. There's really navigating back channeling is also very effective if you have, if you understand how your leader thinks. Right. And then getting access to this video and performance is a big deal. Like, I was one of the top performing directors at LinkedIn. I got my boss signed me up to meet with the COO of LinkedIn. I had a one on one and he was like, ask me anything. And he was like, I was, All I cared about was my numbers were very good. And I was like, how do you do what you do? Because I was paralyzed about becoming an influencer, executive influencer. And he just told me and he introduced me to the community manager and then that's how I got started. Having access to the information when you need it is happening sometimes in invisible networks. And those invisible networks are very important. And I didn't know that 20 years ago when I was starting my career. And that's why I launched a top 5% career accelerator. Because this is what I wish I knew. This is what I. I wish I had access to these circles. I wish I had access to this knowledge that is not spread out. And then it takes a lot of time until you get access. And you're like, what if I had access when I was 25, how far would I be today? Right. Because there's a reason why Mark Zuckerberg is a billionaire is because he had the mentors from day one. Yeah. Because he had access. And that's the thing, that's what you

[Lexi B]

said earlier about your network being your generational wealth. We do have another question from the audience before we get there. I want to ask you a question because you keep on hinting at this idea of you have to be good at your job. And I think it's something that we don't talk enough about because either a, we assume that people know that like, duh, be good at your job. But I do want to highlight that on this call. How. Why is it so important for you to do well at your job? And how does that influence the networking and the lunching up and down? How does that influence that?

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

Because when you're very good, people, I want to know, are going to want to know why you're good, what are you doing, right? And if you're a black woman, they're going to be like, prove me that this is not a coincidence. And if the numbers are not there, it's because you're not doing X. So you gotta be good at your job. So I'm gonna give an example, right? Let's say I turn around a book of business that was declining at minus 68%, right? And then let's say I go on Matlab, I come back and they give me another book of business that's bleeding and they're like, haha, let's see if she's really good. New team, new everything. And then I do it again. And I do it again. I do again. So there's an expectation first, if you're very good, you're going to be able to codify how you get the results that you do, right? And then once you become good at your job, the C levels are going to want you in the room to understand, listen, you've been good at this. How do we do it across the organization, right? And then that's like, you don't need to be a director to do that. Like I was an IC and people were like, how do you do this? Create a playbook, train everybody. I'm like, okay, I'll train everybody. But in exchange, can I have a level up? That's what I call the pact, right? You have to make a pact with the people who want you to do extra work and stuff because it's good for your visibility to create it, create that playbook. It's good to know how to write that playbook and create that path because that's your personal branding. You create a brand that is so strong that people are like talking about you when you're not there. I remember. So I'm in la, I used to work at the Spruce Goose Hanger in la and I would have my heels and one of my friends now, she said, listen, when we heard your heels clapping at the entrance, we knew Kat was in the house. And I'm like, what are you talking about? It's like we knew it was your million dollar heels. So people create legends and legends make your generational wealth, right? So there is a really a way to be able to advance. But you have to understand what the assignment is, what the playbook is, how to navigate and also how to exit. Right. Because there's a moment that you have to be like, okay, I'm done. And then you just exit and then you reenter when you're ready to re enter. So then that's the beauty of like becoming a professional career navigator. And because I'm going to ask a trivia for the chat, because I like the chat. I like the chat room. Oh, I worked at Deloitte from 2006 to 2008. No, from 2008 to 2011. 2012. 2012 to 2022 I worked at Google. 22 to 2005 I worked at LinkedIn. When is the last time I applied for a job? I'm going to open the group chat. I'm going to say it again.

[Lexi B]

I want to answer, but I'm not going to.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

You're the last one to answer. Okay, 2005. Yeah. So basically Joe says 2005. So I said I worked at Deloitte was 2008 to 2012, Google was 2012, 2022 and LinkedIn was 2002 to 25. When is the last time I applied to a job? Okay. Fania is 2012. FIA is 2008. I like when the chat is popping. Everybody's 2000, 2008, Deloitte 2012. So the last time I applied for a job was in 2006. So what I'm saying is that I was referred through my network for the past 14 to 18 years. Right. If you hit my LinkedIn, you're gonna see. But what I'm saying is that your network, where I am today is because people knew of me, knew of the quality of my work. I was a very heads down, I'm going to get things done. And I was referred into Deloitte, which was my first people management job. I was referred into Google, which was a dream come true. And then I was referred into LinkedIn. And what I mean referred is that they were, look, they were in the market looking for someone and then they were like, do you know someone? Yeah, Kathleen. And then for LinkedIn was my former Google coworker was like, oh, they have this job open. I don't know if it's good for you, but I'll introduce it to recruiter. And I'm like, yeah. And then the load was the same. So it means that I have not applied to job in a very, very long time. And that's the importance of your network. And I have only one career regret is not networking more. Not working the room with a hundred people, but, like, really, like, get out of the house, get out of the office. Take that extra stretch, right? And figure out, do I really need to do that thing, or should I build a relationship? So that's my only career regret, is spending more time with the people.

[Lexi B]

I had a really dear friend of mine once tell me, Lexi, the career end game. Like, the most successful person, you never want to apply for a job again. That's the goal that you are minding your business, doing xyz, and you get a phone call or you get a text message or you get a LinkedIn DM where it's like, hey, do you want to talk about this? And of course you say yes, because even if you're happy, you never know people are going to offer you. And that is. That is the flex. But you have to have the network to be able to flex that out. But last question from the audience. Someone asked, Rachel asks, you mentioned becoming a mother being a career amplifier. Could you both say more on that topic? So how has becoming a mama become a career amplifier for you?

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

So it forced me to streamline. I used to, like, be a little hamster. Just work around the clock.

[Lexi B]

Yeah.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

And I recorded a documentary, and I was like, you want a jump to be done? Give it to your mom. Because we don't have time to play. Because it's like, suddenly when you have a kid, you're on the clock. You're on a clock. It's like, my last call has to finish by this time because I got to go. You got to drive. And if you don't pick up the

[Lexi B]

child, they call the police. Go pick up the kid.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

They charge you $5aminute or something crazy.

[Lexi B]

And then they call police. These are really high stakes.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

Your child is going to remember. My sister still remembers. I was always the last one to be picked up. So I always make it a mission that my son is never the last one picked up. I'm like, I'm gonna. It's close at 6. I'm gonna be there at 5, 25. So why am I the last one? No, I don't want him to be the last one. You're not gonna be like, my sister who talks about stuff that happened, like, 30 years ago. Why didn't she come to the right. But I was always the last one. It's like, okay, let's go. Move forward. So it changes your life because you become a streamliner. You go to a meeting and People wanna put you on busy work, and you're like, this girl doesn't do busy work. I'm busy networking with people who sold their companies for a hundred million dollars. So it's just important to know, like, how do you get ahead, how you keep your energy, protect your energy, and how you want to keep advancing in your world. And it's important. Thank you. Jo Jo Vachon. It's very Quebecois, in a way. Thank you, Leah.

[Lexi B]

This was fantastic. Kathleen, thank you so much for coming and sharing your gems. As always, it is a pleasure. It doesn't like, it's an honor to just be in your presence. I think you're really, really dope. I do.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

Thank you for inviting me. Thank you. Think about 40, 40, 20, and the 33% rule, don't play YOLO.

[Lexi B]

And your network is your generational wealth your network.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

Yeah, it's. It's. I don't know if I want those kids to have a trust fund.

[Lexi B]

One they don't know when they don't know about. Exactly. Kimberly, back to you.

[Kimberly]

This was incredible. Thank you all. Thank you all for doing this, everybody. Thank you for showing up and being so active in the chat and like, this is incredible. This has been absolutely incredible. I look forward to seeing what everybody takes from this and how empowered they are and look forward to networking with everybody on LinkedIn.

[Lexi B]

Thanks, everybody.

[Kathleen Jean Pierre]

Bye, everyone. Take care. Welcome to driving impact.