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The Top 5% Method®
Why Intentional Ambition is the NEW Career CURRENCY
01:09:30
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- [00:01]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
Hi, everyone. A quick mention that this is a special episode which was a webinar with two very special guests, Shankar Desai and Ra Goddess. Ra Goddess also was the number one most popular episode of the history of Driving Impact, the podcast. So this is a different format. We're going to talk about the intentional ambition. Listen up. Looking forward to hear your feedback. Welcome to Driving Impact. Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, everyone. I'm super duper excited for this moment today. Happy Tuesday. And it's exciting to see everyone here today in, I want to say in flesh, in person, because online is great, but it's even better to be joining in this special conversation. Please write some words in the chat to say hello. Where are you tuning in from? I'm personally, I'm Kathleen, Kathleen Jean Pierre. You must follow me online if you know me. And I'm going to introduce our fabulous guests for today's moment. And I'm based in Los Angeles, which is a sunny day today, not too shabby. And today what we're going to talk about is the moment we are in. And it's a very special moment in history because a lot of people are asking themselves, what should I do with my life? Should I pivot? Should I become more prospers following my career? What are all the different paths that are open to me? So to join us in this conversation, I'm welcoming two incredible guests that I have the privilege to call friends as well. So to talk about why intentional ambition is a new career currency, my first guest, her name is Ra Goddess. She's a CEO and founder of Move the Crowd. She's the author of a book that I've been drinking, sipping on like hot tea, which is called Intentional Ambition, Redefining your work for greater joy, freedom and fulfillment. She's also an entrepreneurial soul coach. She's really coached people that are very renowned, like Gabrielle Bernstein, who has 10 New York Times bestselling books, and Reshma Sarjani, who's the founder of Girls Code. And she spent 30 plus years as a cultural innovator, but also as an entrepreneur. She worked in consulting and some more. And then I'm welcoming as well, Shankar Desai, who I met at work when I was working as an executive at Google, who was a star at the company, also was an entrepreneur before joining Google. And Shankar has built from scratch and sold his first startup, Naked Apartments to Zillow, which is the renowned real estate listing platform. And at Google, he was managing multi billion dollar portfolios and strategies. So he's very good at scaling brands Scaling companies, but also scaling his career. Now he took the jump from being a managing director at Google to launching himself in the world of artificial intelligence AI and is now the founder of Pebble AI is, which is a relationship coach for the modern age. So please join me in welcoming our two amazing guests. Hello. Hello. Ra and Shankar. And I see we have people joining from Trinidad, New York, Philly. That's amazing. Hello, Michelle. Deborah. Martin, Tobago. That's so cool. Welcome, everyone. Philly, Oakland. I love it so much.
- [03:45]
Shankar Desai
Vienna, London, Nigeria. This is awesome.
- [03:53]
Ra Goddess
Nigeria, Atlanta. Shout out a town.
- [03:58]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
Now I want to travel. Okay, bye everyone. I'm just going to go fly. I'm right next to lax, so that's great. Awesome. So we're going to kick it off in the conversation today. So the moment we find ourselves in. And I spend a lot of time talking to a lot of professionals and coaching professionals because I took the jump myself a couple of months ago. I left LinkedIn after 10 years at Google as well. And I launched myself as a creator, purposeful creator. And today's conversation is powered and sponsored by Graphy, which is a creative platform powered by AI. And I'm trying new things in my career and some of us are trying new things. Shankar is trying something new that was old. And Ra as well. She's coaching people to be able to take the jump and try new things. So everybody's talking about it. It started with a great resignation in 2020, and that was everywhere in the news. Then we talked about the rise of solo entrepreneurship around 2021, 2022. Then people started having side hustles and moonlighting. And then the creator economy boomed in different places in Asia and then in North America. Then there were always layoffs for blue collars. But then it, when it hit tech, everybody was talking about it, like every week, couple of weeks, talk about tech layoffs. So it created this big arousal of people questioning themselves about, I've been working in this company for 12 years and then suddenly I've been laid off. Who am I? What should I do? And people who want to be prepared for that moment, if they're not, if they haven't been laid off, they want to prepare for what is my true purposeful career path, how should I prepare to really get into my purpose? And how can I become like this person who's really walking the right path? So today's conversation is going to be looking at these trends, but also talking about people who've walked the path and the journeys of developing the skills of the future of navigating marketplace where AI is going to replace some of the roles walking. Thirdly, looking at how do you shift towards more purpose and more intentional ambition? And, and how do you really nail in a work life, balance and flexibility into your life? And if your path is to become a creator, because some somehow and somewhere we're all creators inside, then how do you connect to your path? So to break the ice, the first question I'm going to ask to our speakers is what brings you back to meaning and intentionality? That's the first question I want to ask Ra and Shankar. And in the chat you can answer as well. In the chat, I'm going to kick it off. For me, meaning intentionality is when I wake up in the morning, I look at my garden. I have these begonia flowers that I've had for seven years. And if they're blossoming and I've been taking care of them, they're pink, they're lush, they're happy. If I forgot to water them, it's not a beautiful picture. So it's a bit of a state of where I am. Am I being intentional every day? Am I watering my plants and am I watering myself, taking care of myself? And the same I'm coaching my son or son to like, hey, don't forget we need to water the plants. So. Because if you don't water the plants, they vanish and they're not able to bloom. So I'm going to pass the baton to Shankar. So what brings you back to meaning and intentionality?
- [07:17]
Shankar Desai
First, just. Hi, everyone. Great to be here. And Kat, thanks for hosting and facilitating. I also think this question is really important because everyone should know their answer to this question, right? I mean, it's sort of the beginning of, I think, how you set your terms in life. And if you're not setting the terms, you're by default on someone else's terms. And so knowing the answer to this question, I think is just important for everyone. I think for me, first of all, Kat, I love your answer. It's such a. It's a baller answer. You know, I was recently in the Amazon and at night a guide will take you up the river and it's the Rio Negro. So the river is actually completely black. And the boat takes you away from the lodge and there are no human structures, no people around. And in the middle of the river, he just turns off the boat and just lets it sit there. And it's not quiet. It's actually so loud with the sound of nature, whether it's frogs or birds, or tarantulas, they're just like creatures everywhere. And you look up in the sky and there's just like stars everywhere. And I think for me, moments that make me feel small end up really being moments of meaning for me because they allow me to connect. And so I live in San Francisco. And so being out in nature is just such an important part of meaning and intentionality. It's sort of like everything quiets and I can listen to myself, I can listen to nature, and things start to emerge both creatively but also, I think, just in a form of feeling really connected. So for me, I think it's really finding those moments of nature and being really intentional about ensuring that every week I have at least one of those moments.
- [09:14]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
That's a beautiful answer. I love it.
- [09:18]
Ra Goddess
Yeah, I love it as well. I was going to say I love it as well. I agree. I'm like, ditto. Ditto. I have a standing sacred morning meditation and journaling practice that has really become for me, like ground zero in any way that I enter into my day. And I notice when I don't, I think about Kathleen, what you said about the begonias. I noticed that when I don't get my morning meditation and journaling practice in that I experience the day very, very differently. Let's just say that I feel like I'm probably the wilting begonia when I don't get it in. But it is my time with. With. With source, however you all define it. I have a very deep practice. It gives me the opportunity to be quiet, to be in the quiet and the stillness, to listen, to receive the guidance that I feel like I may need to take me into all of the demands and the commands of any given day and that space to just write and reflect. There's something for me, really beautiful about the hand to heart experience of just writing down my thoughts or writing down my questions or observing or reflecting on how I'm feeling in the morning. And those are all things that help me remember why I'm here and remember what I want to create in any given day.
- [10:46]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
That's so beautiful. Thank you for sharing. And I feel like this, those practices that both of you have shared, we can bring them back also in our career because sometimes we get on autopilot, we get in careers, we get in jobs, and we never rethink and we're not intentional in what path we're going into. The first question I want to kick off with today is, why do you think people struggle with finding and identifying their true ambition that's true to themselves. Rai, if you want to kick it off.
- [11:22]
Ra Goddess
Yeah. You know, it's interesting when I think about all of the conversations I have, there are probably two things that come up for me consistently in my observations of why I think people struggle. I think the first thing is recognizing and understanding, in whatever context we're in, that there may be a definition of success and a definition of what is acceptable or respectable in terms of a career path or a want or a need or a desire. And because of that, I think sometimes people really struggle with getting to a true and honest place about what it is that they want. Because, you know, if I think about even a time when I was very, very little, like. Like, my mother had wants for me, she had ambitions, right? And. And so much of my formative years were about receiving the. The directives from my parents about, you know, who I was to be in this world. And. And I think the second reason why we struggle is because we have responsibilities. Responsibilities to our families, responsibilities to our children, to our communities. And sometimes that can cause our true ambition or having the privilege of pursuing our true ambition to sort of feel like a luxury, right? Because we got bills to pay, we got mouths to feed. We got, you know, we got things to do. And those are two of the most prominent reasons why I see people grapple and struggle.
- [12:58]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
And I just want to add something there because, Ra, you and I talked about the fact. My first career, I was in music, I was a rapper. And one of the songs, one of the lyrics I wrote was, my mom told me that by 25, I was supposed to give her a Jaguar. And it was one of the lyrics in French. I was like, I was supposed to drive a Jaguar at 25. And that's like, when you talk about ambition. I was just a kid, and my mom told me that I was supposed to because she was born in Haiti, like, I had more opportunities than her. And then it was ingrained in my brain that my job was. I was in Canada. My job was I was supposed to make money, and I was supposed to make so much Money that by 25, I was supposed to buy her a Jaguar. So that's just like, in terms of ambitions that are not coming from you, that doesn't give you a lot of room to grow. And, Shankar, do you have anything to add on this?
- [13:50]
Shankar Desai
I think my answer is similar. Probably my way of getting there is slightly different. And so I don't know if you've seen the movie Arrival. I watched it with my nieces this past weekend. It's about first contact with aliens, but not like the traditional alien story. It's very like. It's different because basically the central character is a linguist. And the whole idea is like, how do you first start communicating with aliens? And They've landed in 12 different places around the world. And, you know, every country is taking a different approach of how to begin communicating and teaching them to communicate with us. And one of the countries chooses the game of chess in order to understand, to take a game and to start playing it, to start to explain some basic rules. And the lead character just talks about this idea of, like, the reason we are choosing not to do that is because when you start to teach someone chess as the first way of understanding things, embedded in that is an idea of conflict, a winner and a loser. The idea of oppositional forces, those being really core to an understanding of how we're going to communicate and how things operate. And so I think similarly to what's being said is when you're born into the world, you're born into a system that you don't really know about and that you are raised in or didn't choose to be in, and you are raised in. And so the rules of that system are invisible to you. And so the work or the struggle is to start to take the blueprint of what you were really born into and raised into and to start to bring it up and start to trace it. So you can decide to say, oh, I want to renovate, renovate here, for example. But until you understand the blueprint of the place or the rules of the game that you've come into, it's really hard to rewrite your direction and identify your true ambition or find a way to pursue it. And so I think a lot about that in terms of the struggle being the work that you have to do in order to identify these unwritten rules that you were born into. And that's really hard because you take them for granted. You don't even know the assumptions you're making.
- [16:20]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
That's very profound. Yeah. Thank you for sharing.
- [16:25]
Shankar Desai
And I highly recommend the movie, by the way.
- [16:29]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
I'll take note. I haven't watched it yet. And what do you think are the most common challenges people face when they. They try to. They set out to pursue their true ambition. Let's say you're in a corporate job and then you want to launch a side business. So what are the challenges you. You think people are facing?
- [16:50]
Ra Goddess
It's interesting, man. I think there's. There's the mechanics of what you want to do, which oftentimes people think are really the hardest parts of the equation. But the truth is, my experience has been more the mental conversations that show up. Am I good enough? Is it good enough? The idea, right? Is it worthy? Who will support me? Will I be able to be successful in what it is I'm wanting to do? Will people care or show up for what it is that I want to do? And in what way will it matter or not matter? And I think often what can get in the way of our ability to take those actions can be the reactions we experience from the people around us. You know, one of the things that I talk a lot about with my leaders is that, you know, often when we have an idea and it's in the infant stage, like, we go to the most skeptical person we know, right? And the idea may not even be anywhere remotely baked or done or ready, but we just go to the most skeptical person we can find, and then we like, sort of run the idea by them and. And if they, you know, if they don't, like, lean in and validate it immediately, then we just sort of think it's, you know, it's. It's like garbage, right? And the analogy that I often give to people is, you know, like, would you just let anyone hold your newborn baby? You know, or would you.
- [18:24]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
No way. No way.
- [18:25]
Ra Goddess
Come on. Would you make a different choice about who you're sharing with and how you are sharing what you're sharing? And I think in the early stages, like any seed, we need water, we need sunlight, we need encouragement, we need room, we need space to stumble, to bumble, to figure it out, to find and reiterate and think sometimes, right? Just even think before the idea has to now go out and support a family of ten with the Jaguar. The Jaguar version of supporting the family of 10. And I think sometimes we put so much pressure on our ideas that we don't even get out the gate, right? Because all of this is happening and we're sort of running all these scenarios just in our head.
- [19:16]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
Yeah. Thank you for sharing. I think that's so powerful because it's true that there's a lot of external pressure to validate the idea right away and to go super hard. And if it's not perfect, then you should cancel the idea. Shankar, I see you jumping in.
- [19:37]
Shankar Desai
I think, you know, the question just around common challenges people face when. When they set out to pursue their ambitions, you know, so. And this, I think, is just in life in general, so much of life is becoming. Having to become comfortable or trying to become comfortable with uncomfortable emotions, right? And so, you know, when you pursue something that you feel like is true to yourself, like, actually one of the uncomfortable emotions that inherently shows up is grief, right? Like, you lose the job that you used to have, you lose the network that that used to come with, right? Maybe you made a choice that requires you to take a financial cut, right. There's a lot of loss in the pursuit of something new. And I think oftentimes, you know, we have to grieve what we've lost before we can appreciate what we've gained. And that's the valley that we have to go through. And so, like, there's. There's inherently discomfort, and becoming really comfortable with that discomfort and understanding it's a passing emotion is really important, like grief as an example. And so there's a lot of loss in the pursuit of new and seemingly exciting things. And I think the first experience with that turns people off, like, well, it shouldn't be this way. And I think it's like, no, in fact, that's a. That's a signal, right? That's a sign that things are working, because it's a. Like a journey you have to move through. So, yeah, think a lot about that.
- [21:19]
Ra Goddess
I want to double down on that because I don't think we talk enough about the grief when we're moving from one thing to another, you know, and the way in which so much of what we do can often be ingrained in our identity. Like, we know ourselves as this role, or we know ourselves as this particular kind of designation. And when we're venturing into something new, we're having to redefine and we're having to, you know, resource. We're having to reconfigure, right. Our. Our experience of ourselves. And, you know, Shankar, to your point, community, the community piece is huge. I think a lot of people grapple with a fear of loss, real or perceived, they grapple with that fear. And because the concern is that loss is going to be a part of the equation, and they don't ultimately know what that loss is ultimately going to signify. We hold on, and there's a lot of things that we hold on to that don't always give us the freedom or the joy that we seek to experience when we are starting something new, we want that excitement. And to your point, Shakar, sometimes that's not what shows up initially. Sometimes what shows up initially is doubt or failure. Right? Or your grandmother is telling you, I have no idea what that is. And if you pursue it, I will disown you. Right.
- [22:51]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
I don't know why, but I'm hearing Tupac checkpiecheck here. I'm walking in the valley of the valley of death. So it's, listen, I think that's very important because all I can think of is like, all the people at work that used to ping you and want to talk to you, and all these suddenly all that attention disappears. All the people that like you thought were close to you, everything vanishes. And I think what I like about the fact that all those people vanish, it just shows you how it's. I don't want to say it's not real, but how those work relationships are based on work. And yes, some of those relationships are going to pour it into your personal life, but a lot of them might not. And there's some of these relationships that you're going to nurture that are going to come into your personal life and they're going to become friends, but there's others that are not. And that's why I think we have to be intentional in our ambition. Even if you stay in a job of figuring out how do you set your own boundaries and protect your energy? Because work is great and work is work, but you also have to figure out what is part of your personal life and who belongs in your personal life and who doesn't. Because I think the biggest test is when I left Google before going to LinkedIn, there's a bunch of people I never talked to, and there's a bunch of people I talked to, but I was a small group of people who stayed connected. And then when I left LinkedIn, there's a bunch of people I don't talk to. Like from overnight, like they vanished like ghosts, like zombies, right? So, and I think that's important because at the end of the day, who are the people who stayed? My son, right? My, my family, like, that's the. Those are the core. My people from the real people stay throughout. And some of them, my clients, more clients stayed than some of my co workers. So I think that's what you want to really figure out, who are the real ones in your life. Because when you start a new business, you're going to go build that business with the real ones. The odd stuff that you never thought about, like the, the person I helped sell that business for 100 million is my coach. I was building that business. Like all of those people that we, like, we were in the trenches together selling ads. Those are the people now that I'm working with. So it's just figuring out who are the real ones. And you build real relationships everywhere. And those are the souls that we came to life on the Earth to grapple some of the opportunities with. And that's the biggest, deepest conversation and thought that I think the intentional ambition is like, sometimes you do some work with some people and so deep that that work is going to keep pouring into all the businesses that you're going to create. And that's what matters. Okay, moving on. I want to talk about renegotiation because I think it's very important that in your book Ra, you talk about how do we. What is the three steps to renegotiate your new reality? So you talk about reclaiming, realigning, and reimagining your reality. So what is the real process about? How do you renegotiate your work life and your life? Because it's not an easy thing to do.
- [25:59]
Ra Goddess
Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is, you know, we talk about the reclaim piece. And each distinct aspect of the process has a role to play, has a unique role to play in helping you kind of bridge from where you were to where you want to be. The first step is the reclaiming, right? The reclamation process. And that is all about the stories that we've inherited and the degree to which those stories serve us or don't serve us. So, Shankar, I think about your comment about, you know, we come into this world and we sort of just adopt whatever this sort of rules are, whether we're aware of our adoption of those rules or not aware of the adoption of those rules. And it isn't until we try to break the seal or break out of the container that sometimes we even recognize that we've been in a world, right, where there are rules or guidelines or agreements. And so in the process of reclamation, you get to ask yourself at this stage, whatever that stage is for you, what are the stories that empower me and what are the stories that don't? And maybe we've inherited them culturally, you all. Maybe we've inherited them from mainstream society. Maybe we've inherited them based upon certain work environments we've been in. And what we've been taught to believe is supposed to, you know, success is supposed to look like in those environments. But that first part of reclaiming is really important because it invites you to come home to you and what is true for you and what is important for you and what makes a difference for you as you're considering the new terms and conditions under which you want to be Able to live and work and be in relationship and thrive. Right. The second aspect of renegotiation is the realignment part. And I think about this, Kathleen, in the context of your energy, right? So I love that you already started to kind of set the context for this conversation. Because in our mind, you know, we can have a conversation about what's working or not working, but our energy doesn't lie. And our energy will very much tell us what is working and what is not working. What are the things that are giving us life versus what are the things that are sucking us dry? And in the book, I talk about these six frontiers, right? These six areas of our life where we get to look at what's working, what's not working, where do we feel like we're really showing up in alignment with our values, in alignment with our passion, in alignment with what we say matters and really is important to us versus where we may not be, where we may be going through the motions, where we may be sending in our representative, right? No matter how well dressed our representative may be. Right? Um, and then, and then, you know, and this is about getting real with you and you. And often that requires space, that requires slowing down, that requires stopping, that requires saying no. Which are all things that can be very, very scary, but very, very necessary in terms of making sure that when we're moving forward, we're moving forward in a way that's going to invite greater joy, greater freedom, and greater fulfillment. And then the third step is the reimagining, which is really about now that I understand what I value and what I know is important to me. Now that I'm clear about what's working and what's not working, I want to look at how do I want it to be, what would I be doing? What would my ideal scenario be for the way in which I want to work, for who I want to be working with or living with or in relationship work? So we get to create this new criteria that supports our ability to actually then fulfill on the vision for what we really, really desire.
- [29:47]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
Thank you so much for sharing. Because it's so, so important and for people to find their truth. And like, I like to call it the true north, it takes time because I feel like sometimes you have glimpses of the life you want to live. And for me personally, I remember I was a product manager back in 2006. I lived in Montreal. I would go surfing in the Dominican Republic and for two weeks and working from the beach, and I was like, oh, that's my dream. I Want to work from the beach and be on my computer. I knew that the inklings of the life I wanted to live. And then I would go back to Montreal in winter and be like, minus 40. And it's like. And then it was not the Dominican Republic. Finally it's San Francisco and then la, where I live now. So I found a middle ground. But it took years and years and years of, like, having this vision and figuring out and making it happen, and then working in tech and then finding this hybrid life. So I'd love to hear your story, Shankar, of how from working, like, having a startup, selling it to Zylo and then I don't know if you Zillow Zylo. French is always going to be my first. So I'm not going to get the accent right. And I just accept it profoundly. And I'm Caribbean, so it's gonna go. But then working 11 years at Google and at Google, you were like. Everybody was like, shankar is gonna go in a meeting and he's gonna slay. You know what to say, how to say it. You're like the professional navigator, corporate navigator. You were fun, you were smart. You were like, right brain, left brain. You left. And everybody's like, how can you leave right? You just like, had this trajectory to managing director and you were. We were sure you're gonna get to VP and SVP if you wanted to. And then you're like. And then you just jumped. You can't jump, brother. Just stay right where you are and become VP and president. So how did you realign, reassess and reclaim. And why?
- [31:42]
Shankar Desai
A few things before I jump in. Like, I know that, like, whenever I get down, you know, I have this, like, I kind of imagine Cat on the side of my shoulder pumping me up. And as you can tell based on what she's saying, like, it works every time, everyone. So everyone should get their own version of Cat that they just imagine on their shoulder for any time you start doubting yourself. The other thing is, like, you've heard it here first. It's now called Xylo and I love it. It's great.
- [32:11]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
But it's coming from the heart because I'm saying, what? Me? I'm a lover. I'm not a hater. The people hate me. I'm just like, I have to. I'm going to say the truth of what people are, like, admiring and saying silently. Me, I'm just going to say, this guy, like, it just rocks. And that's it. And sometimes you need some real, real love. So that is true.
- [32:31]
Shankar Desai
I really. I do deeply appreciate that. That is, like, very kind. It's okay. A couple of things. One is just one thought that's been lingering based on our conversations, which is like, one of the exercises I did before I left Google, because it is scary. Like, those are scary moments in your life, right? Is. And I was like, you know, like, what is. Like, what is going to give me the courage to make this decision? And, like, one night I realized, like, really the fear was about identity. And then the fear underneath that identity piece was really around, like. Like, belonging. And look, I like, for me, like, we're hired, we're hardwired for belonging. Like, to be human means to seek belonging. And one of the greatest things that companies do is they give you belonging. You just have to trade certain things in for it, right? And maybe that's something else you really want to do. And so what ends up happening when you're thinking about leaving is you have to fight a war on two fronts. You have to fight a war within yourself. One that says, I have to give up belonging in the short term, knowing that and believing you're going to find it somewhere else, but also just, like, you have to give up the external validation. Fighting a war on two fronts is just really hard, especially when it's internal. But you have to have some sort of faith in yourself, but not only yourself. And this is where, like, just to tie it back is, you know, I just, like, one night I just made a list of, like, who's gonna love me regardless of whether I'm working at this company or what I'm doing, right? Who's gonna love me regardless of whether I fail or succeed? Who's gonna love me, like, regardless of, you know, what I can do for them? And, like, I made my list, you know, and I was just like, I'm loved. Like, it doesn't matter whether I work at Google or not. It doesn't matter whether, like, these sort of, like, very impermanent attributes aren't the reason that these people love me. And they're going to be there regardless of the context that I'm in. And, like, that was one really, I think, powerful exercise, if you will, you know, And I have that list, and I'll go back to it. And, like, when I'm down, I'm like, these are my people. I'm going to call them, and they're always there. And. And the other is like, look, I'm like the kid of immigrant children, right? And so, like, like, it hasn't, like, there's just a lot that comes with it if you're an immigrant. And, like, maybe just, like, there's a little bit of a trope, a little bit of a stereotype, and, like, it's true. Like, and. And I had to have, like, multiple conversations with my parents being like, hey. Because I, like, I still really value what my parents think of me. Like, it's important to me. And I went through a period where I did, and then I tried to reject it, and now I'm in a place where I'm like, oh, you know what? Like, I do care. And that's okay because, like, we are relational people by nature. And, like, I had a lot of conversations without them with them before I left in order to get them comfortable, because that made me comfortable. So I think, like. But that doesn't answer your question. Those were just some, like, lingering thoughts that were. That were. That were top of mind. I think that I just have never been someone. Like. Like, the things that we are told are supposed to matter. Like, they just have never mattered for me over long periods of time. And so for me, it's like, I'm always seeking. Like, I'm like, a meaning seeker. Like, meaning for me is my North Star, right? And that can be, like, an amazing conversation with someone. That can be an amazing experience. But, like, I'm kind of optimizing my life for meaning. And, like, I got to a place where I was like, this is not meaningful work for me. I don't regret the last 11 years, but I'm no longer. Like, this isn't meaningful anymore, and I need to, like, go out and seek what's meaningful for me. Because if I spend another 10 years here, I'm going to regret it. And that's, like, my personal journey, right? I still have friends there. Amazing. It's meaningful for them, but they're not optimizing for meaning. They're optimizing for different things. Like, and I'm no longer optimizing for what other people are optimizing for. Like, I'm optimizing for the things that are not that I believe are important. And so, like, it's why, like, risk for me has always been, like, I don't calculate risk. I think the same way other people do. Like, one of my managers was like, you love running towards the fire. And I'm like, yeah, I kind of do. Like, I did beforehand, I did when I was at Google. And, like, I continue to do that because, like, that, to me is, like, amazing experiences. That's where you learn and like, that for me is the treasure chest, like I want to build over the course of, of my career. So I think that's why, like, how it was perceived versus how I perceived it myself was potentially like, there's a gap there because I perceive it more as like, like the opportunity cost of not doing it was way too high because the amount of time you have to give for those roles is like, it's a lot to be successful.
- [37:51]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
Yeah.
- [37:52]
Shankar Desai
And so I was just like, my time is, is it's too valuable for me to give it to something that wasn't meaningful.
- [38:01]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
Thank you. Thank you for the real, real, the real answer, Shankar. Really appreciate it. And some people like to run to fire. Some people like to walk to fire. Some people like to dance in the fire. And as we transition, Jingar, are you here asking, calling Jingar to the screen? Because I want to get real, real with people because I know many professionals I talk to want to know how to moonlight and create side hustles. So I want to talk a little bit more about how to create courses online and monetize one skill that you have. Because I'm having a lot of coaching conversations with people and they want to monetize without leaving the comfort of their job because some people are going to jump right away and then it takes time to figure out things. And sometimes you can monetize a skill set that you have in parallel and not be seen by your employer because that's also a strategy. Or you can just decide to fully jump. So that's not always easy, it's not always obvious, but I want to offer it up to people. So today our sponsor is Graphy because I jumped as a full time creator and Graphy is an AI powered platform and I started yesterday creating my course. I'm going to make an announcement just to hold myself accountable, to actually record my course. And by tomorrow morning, my course is going to be live on Graphy and I'll post it online and I'll offer it for free for a period of time. I just have to define that period of time.
- [39:35]
Shankar Desai
So.
- [39:35]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
So I want to talk a little bit more about what the Graphy bootcamp is because many professionals at different tech companies are like, I want to try something. I don't want to just leave my job and try. I want to be able to try something now. And I'm like, okay, so there's different paths. One of the paths is if you want to, if you think you have a special skill set, Graphy offers like AI powered features to help Creators monetize their expertise and you have tools because you can create communities online. You can sell online courses, webinars, memberships, digital products. You can build communities and learning experiences. And I'll walk you through what the boot camp is about. So if we go to the next slide. So what you can learn at the bootcamp. There's an upcoming bootcamp on August 4th. I might take it myself because it's still very fresh and new for me as you can learn from industry experts. So former creators or new tenured creators who've done it before, how to leverage the platform to create your trainings. You can have support, you can learn how to leverage the platform to create one course or multiple courses. You can. Also there's opportunities to promote your course in Times Square, which looks very shiny. And I'm like I saw that first and I got super excited. But it only happens two to four times a year. But anywho, once you sign up, you can see how it's possible we can go to the next slide. So the, the bootcamp. So some of the creators who have been through the bootcamp, so we can see there's Ash and Nick, they launched their furniture flipping course and they've been able to earn over $25,000 US within 45 days. So that's a definite success stories. Doesn't mean that's what you're going to get. But for people who are very leaned in, have a great offer and able to tap into the audience, they that's what they've been able to get. A second case study is beyond school. They've been able to sell over 600 courses. So that's a high volume of courses versus the first two hours of launch. Leveraging graphy. And they also really leaned into the bootcamp's mentors. And then Ruth Langer, which is also different demographics. She's a mom entrepreneur who's able to really empower other women to launch their own business through consulting, teaching and and really to launch their passive income streams. So these are three different archetypes of creators who are monetizing their skill, monetizing their intentional ambition online, and are able to create an offering and launch themselves. So if you're somebody who works somewhere or even if you have your own business, that might be one way to get started. Next slide. So so far graphy has helped 240 coaches, trainers, creators and different people just like you. And you can see that in the last five months creators have been able to generate 1.3 millions on the platform. You can see that there's 148 webinars that have been created. Webinars courses are different memberships and 197 people have graduated. So it's something to look at. I'm going to test it myself just because I'm curious because I haven't done that yet. And I'm somebody who really wants to be in the creator economy as it aligns with my purpose and something I'm very passionate about. So if we go to the next slide and then lastly what are you going to get if you get into the boot camp? So you would get one month free access to the tools to create your website, your course builder. You also get email marketing and the webinar funnel because it's an art and science to sell courses and you need like a team that's going to teach you how to do it with landing pages, zoom classes. I feel like every, every strategy online needs expertise. Like I'm coming from the world of Google Ads. Then I worked at LinkedIn and LinkedIn is their own expertise. So what I discovered is that every single, every single platform needs expertise and help. So it's something that to explore but you need help. It's not like build it and they will come. You really have to figure out how to do it. So it's a four day workshop. You can learn to create, market and sell your course. You get a certification and then you have a promotion that happens two to four times a year. And also you can get support from a success manager to help you on board. Next slide. Normally the bootcamp is $500 but just because you signed up to join us today with Shankar, Ra and myself, you get it 90% off at $49. And then if you reserve your spot just now, you get it for $20. It's kind, it's kind of a good deal if you try it now. So if you feel that it's part of your path, then I think it's a good opportunity to jump now and try to create that parallel path Income. Yes. We're going to go into Q and A right after this. So jingar, do we have a next slide or this is an opportunity. If there's a link Jenga for people to jump in there, please put it in the chat. If some people feel that there's a path for them to be a creator or if they have an expertise that they want to be able to launch and create on graphy, then I want to make sure they have a link to be able to sign up for the Bootcamp, and then we're going to go to Q and A. And if we have time, I want to talk about the five Wounds from your book Ra, because I thought it was super duper powerful. But I want to give it 10 minutes for the Q and A Jenga. I think we went to the next slide, the last slide already, and then the next slide after that. Oh, okay. There's a link. Okay, perfect. This is the link where you can sign up for just $20. Wow. That's a deal. I'm going to copy that link. I'm going to keep it to us. Okay. So if we're done, we have the link in the chat. We want to make sure to open the Q and A. And if you've had. Do we have questions in the Q? I see no questions in the Q and A features. Can you please drop your questions in the Q and A feature such that we can line up all the questions and answer any questions that have come. Okay, we have the first question from Sarah Warsame. How can someone with an unconventional but powerful online presence leverage that into high level partnerships or offers? I'm going to repeat the question. How can someone with an unconventional but powerful online presence leverage that into high level partnerships or offers? Shankar, do you want to jump in?
- [46:25]
Shankar Desai
I would say from, like, this is like from a creator standpoint, right? And so the thing that I would probably think about is like, I'll be totally transparent. I'm not a creator in the traditional sense of like, I'm not monetizing my audience right now. Like, I have an AI startup, which is different. But I think for me, it's like, it's really about finding ways to add value to the partners as much as it is value to yourself. And so if you can find a way to add value and create value and align that with yourself, then there's mutual exchange. And so I think that then allows you, in order to like, for partners to be interested in what you're doing. And so thinking about that as a. As a governing principle, I think is probably the most important.
- [47:14]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
Awesome. Thank you, Sarah, for asking the questions. Please add your questions to the Q and A section. Second question is from Mallet Norgekem. How do you decide between coaching, consulting and course? What order would you do it in? I think this is a perfect question for Ra. Ra. You're muted.
- [47:34]
Ra Goddess
Yes, I think, you know, I think it's a great, great question. I think the first thing to get grounded in is kind of what's the impact you want to have? And you know, and I would say it's the same sort of, I think about this Shankar as well, in your response to this creative originally, Sarah, who spoke. You know, I think if you know that what you're wanting to offer is driving impact and you're feeling the experience of impact, and you like the idea of utilizing the one on one structure to test, right, and really kind of road test your work, your transformation, your value proposition. You might start with the one on one knowing you have an eye towards the course, if that's where you want to go. There are some people who begin with more intimate approach and then they go wide and then there's other people who go wide first and then, and then they sort of drip down into the, you know, if we think about it from the perspective of the funnel, and then they drip down into the more intimate courses. But I always feel that it's always great to test and experience and get really clear about what you have first. And then once you sort of know what you have, then I think you can think about the modalities. Particularly if you like this idea of being able to teach and have, you know, this kind of what I call one to many structure, then the course might be the way to really go for you. And then it's really going to be about what are all of the ways in which you can invite people into the course and spread the word about the fact that this course exists to drive people into the conversation and to drive people into the experience. And so if that's really where your joy and your passion lies, then I would say to you, right, lean into that after you've had an opportunity to test the value and the transformation that you're wanting to create for the people that you're working with.
- [49:26]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
Thank you so much. Ra, the next question, I'll take it. Please tell us most about the Times Square promotion and is that included if we purchase today? So, regarding the courses on Times Square. So once creators have their content set up on the graphy platform, you can reach out to your customer success manager to inquire about the schedule for the next feature. So graphy typically runs two to four batches of features each year, and the main requirement for participation is that your course is set up on graphy, must be fully complete and you must ensure there's a live destination to direct people to through the advertisement. So it has. Your course has to be fully complete and ready to go live. It was anonymous, so I can't, I don't know if we answered it well. Okay, third Question from Sarah. How do you avoid burnout when building your authority while also healing and managing life changes? How do you avoid burnout when building your authority? I can tackle the first of this one. So I think for me, the begonias have been anchoring because it's one day I woke up and my begonias were almost dead. It was not a good sign. It was a sign that I was not being intentional about my life, about my health. And so you, you want to have different practices. Ra talked about her meditation. So I have the same practice of the first thing when I wake up. The first couple of minutes, I want to meditate. I like to meditate on Joe Dispenza because he has great meditations online about rewiring your brain. And I'm trained in nlp, so in neuro linguistic reprogramming. So I like in the first thing in the morning, I like to do that. The challenge I have is my son wakes up super early, so I have to beat him to it. So if I can do my meditation, if I can water my plants, then I think it helps. And then the third thing is exercise. But everybody has their own routine. So you have to figure out what is your routine. So the waking up routine and the bedtime routine. So defining your non negotiables. And then throughout the day, like if one of the things when I was working corporate, that was very important to me, I had a walking treadmill to join my meetings because there were too many meetings. But also during COVID I would just go on walks in the sun. So the sun is very important. We're just like plants. We need the sun. We need to walk, we need to take the 10 minutes walking phone calls, connecting with people that give you energy and removing yourself from people and things that drain the energy. So just thinking of myself as a plant and even there's been a lot of tests done on plants that if you want a plant to grow, you can expose a plant to love, but also to different types of music and the plant will grow in a different fashion. So I think those are the ways to prevent burnout or even if you've had burnout, to be able to regrow in a fashion that's a bit more balanced and holistic.
- [52:38]
Shankar Desai
Can I add a couple things, Kat?
- [52:40]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
Yeah, of course.
- [52:43]
Shankar Desai
So I think one of the things that's really important to think about. So one of the questions I ask myself if I'm going to do something is would I be willing to do this for 10 years? And I may not end up doing it for 10 years. But I think that question is really clarifying because oftentimes I know when I've experienced burnout in the past, it's because my expectation is that I complete something by yesterday or, you know, or tomorrow that needs to be completed that should realistically take, like, a month. And I think the question then for me was, like, well, why do I have that? Like, what is this about? That. This. I have this, like, whether it's anxiety, restlessness, the. The need to finish and get to the destination as quickly as possible, because, you know, and for me, I had to, like, rewire, relearn unlearn a lot of things and realize, like, consistent effort every single day compounds over a really long period of time. And so that. And I only will give consistent effort that will compound over a long period of time to the things that matter to me. And so I think, you know, if you're doing something, I think often creators are people who are creating because they find it really meaningful. Right? It's an expression of themselves. And so that is, like, a wonderful energy to have. But I think what's really important is to understand that, like, okay, you're in this for the long haul. It's not about getting 10,000 100,000 followers by tomorrow. And so if you're willing to go slow and take a little bit of time, I think you are more sustainably able to achieve the goal that you have in mind. And so I think a little bit about it that way, and as a frame of like. And then I think Kat's point is all around balance, which I think is equally important.
- [54:38]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
That's amazing. Thank you so much. So we have two more questions. We have four minutes. If people have a little bit of extra time, we can take the questions and do their last and close on the reflection on the five wounds, which I think is very deep. So we're going to close it after two questions. How do you differentiate between whether you're seeking meaning at work or meaning through because of the work, what it enables you to do outside of work? I can repeat the question again. How do you differentiate between whether you're seeking meaning at work or meaning through work? Because of the work, what it enables you to do outside of work. Which one of you want to take the tackle? Ra or Shankar?
- [55:24]
Shankar Desai
I'll take a quick cut, and Ra, you can jump in if you want to.
- [55:29]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
We have another question after.
- [55:31]
Shankar Desai
I'll be very sure I want to.
- [55:33]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
Talk about the five wounds because they're very profound.
- [55:37]
Shankar Desai
I'll just Quickly say that one is. I don't think there's a wrong answer. Like, I think you can find meaning at work and you can find meaning through work. Right. I think what's most important is deciding which it is and then creating appropriate boundaries for each of them.
- [55:54]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
Awesome. And then the last question. And then I want to really want to do the deep work of the wounds because I think it really speaks to the time we're in and we go to work with our baggages, which is not something negative. It's just something that is. The world is super loud. And from Deborah, thank you for your question. The world is super loud. And even worse, I am woman in a cultural ecosystem that does not encourage ambition. Right now, I'm trying to break out of this mindset and pursue my dreams without fear and apology. What's one advice you can give me as I navigate this journey? That's a question for Ra.
- [56:33]
Ra Goddess
Debra. I love this question. There are two things that I want to offer for you. One is to see that every moment you do it is a win, right. And to actually take it on as a practice. I think sometimes when we're wanting to make monumental changes in our lives, you know, Shankar, I think about this idea of this sort of the pressure, right, that it has to happen overnight. You know, we've got to be 20 pounds thinner in three days, right? And the opportunity is to start to consider what are the supportive practices that enable me to break out of this mindset, right? Whether it's a mantra you say to yourself every day, and maybe you walk in the morning and you say, I'm capable of, you know, doing great things, that my ambition is important, that the difference I want to make matters, that you know that being a woman is a. Is an advantage, right? I can give you a hundred, right? But you get the gist. And so the idea is starting to really implement practices that every day move you. And then in the interactions, places where you notice, maybe you would go small or not share your voice, that you begin to share your voice, that you begin to talk more about what it is that you want or need or desire in any given situation. And some days, listen, you might get it in one out of 10 times, but then other days you might get it in two or three. And the intention is that you keep building, you keep growing, you gain confidence. And as you gain confidence, you'll find you'll do it more and more. And then all of a sudden the shift is there. The second thing I would just say is community. It's so important to be surrounded by people who are like minded and like spirited, who are going to encourage you, who are going to root for you, places where you can share your wins, places where you can share your challenges and where people can love up on you and encourage you to keep going, especially when it gets hard.
- [58:34]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
That's amazing. Thank you so much, Ra and I know we have a last question from Sophie Yu. I just want to talk quickly about the five wounds and then if we can, we'll answer Sophie's question because I think we are in a very rich conversation and I think it's very important. I really love this section of your book, R.A. and I encourage everybody who's this is the deep work. This is like, I don't know how you came up with that. I was there last weekend. You talked about the book was written through you. And so you talk about the five wounds and the five redemptions. And you talk about the five aspects of true ambitions are designed to invite greater love, joy, peace and liberation. And I really feel that the moment we are in is people are trying to liberate themselves. And you say, I call these five accepts redemptions because they have the potential to transform old wounded ways of being and create a more expensive, inspirational and regenerative ways of living and working. And you say redemptive ambition invites us to become deep listeners, collaborative and proactive, problem solvers and accountable citizen. And then you say, each redemption correlates to an aspect of wounded ambition or to a wound, but also its own stage in a progression towards becoming a more authentically realized human being. And that's so deep. So I'm going to name the five wounds. So you talk about wounded ambition. You talk about the true ambition framework, trademark wounded ambition, the old paradigm, the five wounds. And then you talk about the true ambition, the new paradigm, the five redemption. And I love it. So the wound number one is imposter syndrome. And the true ambition is courageous imperfection. And then you talk about the other wound in the mission, which is the righteous competition, right? And then the new paradigm, the true ambition is enlightened humility. And then the third one is a lack of ownership and disenfranchisement. And the new one is sacred embodiment. And you talk about playing safe and playing small, which happens to a lot of people when you feel stuck and you want to play safe and small. The true ambition in the new paradigm is unapologetic devotion. This is so deep. And the last one is hiding out and being invisible. That was literally me when I was in corporate and I was like, there's no way I'm going to post on LinkedIn. There's no way I'm going to say that I'm never going to talk about this. What happened. It's the true ambition and the new paradigm is shining bright and standing tall. So overcoming these five wounds. And I had imposter syndrome and I had sometimes playing safe, playing small or hiding out and being invisible and it's breaking through these where there's liberation and there's power. So thank you so much for writing this because everybody talks about imposter syndrome and sometimes people talk about the fear of being seen. But I think you go deeper because you talk about all the different, the five wounds that can show up. So if we have time, we can maybe answer Sophie's question. So Sophie asked, what are some tips to track and measure your strengths and build your self branding? I'm a PM at a face based startup and I noticed that a lot of the times I'm so busy crossing off to do's that I lose sight of this. But I want to start thinking about this strategically to set the tone for my career trajectory. Track and measure your strengths and build yourself branding. I mean I can, yeah, I can kick it off. I think so. I mean we're all, we've all been there where you, you don't necessarily carve the time to take care of yourself or to take the time to think about yourself. So some of the things I've done is I would carve some time Sunday nights or Monday mornings outside of work to just regroup with myself and have a list of my intentions. I normally begin of the year, I have the intention for the year, but that's a bit too broad. Then I would break it down by intentions of the quarter and then break it down intention of the week and then intention of the day. And when I do that, I create 90 day sprints to figure out what is it that I want to develop for myself. And it could be anything, it could be breaking through at some point. I had a fear of engaging with some senior people. I don't know where it was coming from. There was one manager that was super tall, 6ft 5 and at some point I just felt like he was so tall. And Shankar, you know who it is, I'll text you. But it's just things happen and sometimes you develop some weird things. And then I was like, okay, I'm gonna force my, I'm gonna give myself a goal. I'm gonna have seven lunches with people who are more senior than me. And I'm gonna find something to talk to them about, right? And I give myself that goal for 90 days. So that's one way to do it. Another way, if you talk about self branding, it could be, I'm gonna create my branding self branding plan. And what that means is I'm going to create a brand identity. And it could be like, okay, what am I? What do I want to be known for? Or what is my true self expression of who I am, Right? What is my. What do I bring to the world? Recently, I had all these things that I wanted to do, but what came up from source, from spirit, was I want to bring the light to the people who need the light. Because in some parts, my little sister had cancer in 2023. And I realized that everything shifted for me and I needed to bring the light to the world. And every other things that I told myself I wanted to do, I want to empower women. And it's still there, but it was, I need to bring the light. And that became my life mission. And that becomes. And I think that's why I resonated with what Ross said, because she said, if you're hiding out and you're being invisible, because I was very uncomfortable posting on LinkedIn and even I was like, what if? What if? And then one person said, you're crazy, you're posting too much. And I received 10 text messages telling me that I'm destroying my career because I'm posting too much. And then that person was laid off. And then that person said, oh, you gotta coach me on LinkedIn because I wanna launch a podcast. And then you coach me on your podcast. And I want. And then I was like, two years later, and I was like, wow. So that's why you gotta be very careful about the haters, right? And now that person is calling me every day and shining bright, standing tall. And that's why you wanna. You. You have to do what you have to do. You have to be who you wanna be. Because if I had listened to that person, and not just that person, other people, other people told my sister, you know, your sister is gonna get laid off if she keeps posting like that. If you stand in your grounding and you stand in your light, that I have to bring the light to the people who need the light, you will find your purpose and you will remove yourself from the environments that do not serve you. Because the people who don't want you to shine your light are not your people. And that's what's important and your people are going to be other people and that's all. And you have to carve time for yourself. You got to like get a second phone where nobody has that number and you go, if you have to go in the mountains or wherever, I don't care, your backyard with the begonias and go write yourself branding plan and go meditate. You have to. Because startups, the world will eat you if you don't go and isolate yourself. So for me, I just go in hermitage, I go and isolate myself and I work on my projects and that's what brought me to find my purpose and to do what I'm doing today. And I don't really care what people think because there ain't nobody paying my bills. The people, the people. Nobody, like nobody's paying my bills. Nobody's taking care of me. I take care of myself and I'm great and my son and my family. So I'm good. So with the group of souls that matter and that's at the end of the day, that's what matters. So you have to carve time to take care of yourself and to create your branding and you don't have to people like build in public. Yeah, go build in public. Me, I'm building in silence. And when it's done, I'm going to, I'm going to post it because I don't know for black women it's different. You want to shout like Fawn Weaver talks about it. Go tell your story when the story is done because she knows that it's a bit different for black women and some minorities. So build in public might be good for startup young Mark Zuckerberg and whatnot. But it's a different reality out there. So you just have to find your reality. You have to find your truth. You have to find. And you have to find time to protect your energy and, and to create yourself in silence. So that's my. And you have to create your branding, you have to create your side hustle in silence. So. And if I had to do things a different way, I would have done that a long time ago. 10, 20 years ago. And, and that's how people branch out of corporate. They start five years before and then five years later it becomes a big business and then they can jump. Anywho, that was it. Quick plugs. Intentional ambition. That's ra's book pebble AI. I don't know how to find your startup Shankar. So if you want to plug the link to your startup, I will.
- [68:05]
Shankar Desai
It's try pebble AI.
- [68:08]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
Awesome. If people want to try it out. I don't know if it's an app or whatnot.
- [68:12]
Shankar Desai
It's an app. Yeah. We're not out of closed beta yet, but sign up.
- [68:16]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
You can sign up and then I'm going to drop my master classes on graphi. That's my homework. I'm not going to be invisible. I'm going to be visible. I'm going to post it. And you can follow us online. We're all online. I'm going to have my masterclasses. You know where to find me. Kathleen Jean Pierre. I'm on LinkedIn. That's my main social network. I also run an academy that you can find online. So thank you so much for the questions, thank you for the conversation and looking forward to see you in our future live. Bye, everyone. Thank you so much. Have a great rest of your week.
- [68:47]
Shankar Desai
Thanks, Rachel.
- [68:48]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
Thank you for your time, everyone.
- [68:50]
Ra Goddess
Thank you, Graphy.
- [68:52]
Shankar Desai
Thanks, everyone for joining.
- [68:54]
Ra Goddess
Thanks, everyone for being here.
- [68:56]
Kathleen Jean Pierre
Thank you, everyone. Bye. Bye. Welcome to Driving Impact.