Podcast Summary: Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield

Episode: 7-Month-Old Vanishes in California: Is This Mother Telling the Truth? | Emmanuel Haro
Date: August 18, 2025
Host: Ashleigh Banfield
Expert Guest: Scott Rouse, Body Language and Behavioral Analysis Expert

Overview

Ashleigh Banfield delves into the mysterious disappearance of 7-month-old Emmanuel Haro from San Bernardino County, California. After Emmanuel’s mother, Rebecca Haro, reported being attacked and losing consciousness outside a sporting goods store—only to awaken to her baby’s absence—the story drew widespread attention and skepticism. In this episode, Ashleigh enlists renowned behavioral analyst Scott Rouse to break down the body language and micro-expressions of the parents during media interviews, questioning whether Rebecca is a victim or may be hiding the truth.

Case Background and Key Timeline

The Disappearance

• Incident: Rebecca Haro claims that while changing Emmanuel’s diaper in her car, she was approached from behind, heard someone say “hola,” and was rendered unconscious (00:49).
• Discovery: Rebecca awoke on the ground; Emmanuel was gone. She searched, ran into the store shouting his name, and called 911 (01:36).
• Police Response: San Bernardino deputies canvassed the area with K-9s, but found no evidence or surveillance footage from the parking lot—an unusual gap for a large store (03:06).

Early Red Flags

• No suspect description (Rebecca claims she never saw the attacker or escape vehicle).
• No Amber Alert issued, as there was no information about a vehicle or license plate (04:00).
• The kidnapping story quickly gained national attention, but by the second day, investigators' suspicions grew, leading to a deeper probe into the family.

Shifting Investigation

• Cadaver dogs were deployed at the Haro family home; parts of the property were reportedly searched and dug up (09:09).
• Law enforcement cited inconsistencies in Rebecca’s statements, and after confronting her, she ended the interview (10:45).
• Rebecca was asked to take a polygraph, but her husband Jake (Emmanuel’s father) refused until they had a lawyer (11:59).
• Background details revealed Jake’s previous conviction for child cruelty and ongoing probation issues (13:07).
• Social service involvement: the couple’s 2-year-old was reportedly removed from their home.

Key Insights and Discussion Points

1. Media and Public Skepticism

Ashleigh highlights the “Susan Smith vibes”—referring to public suspicion in high-profile, possibly faked abduction cases (00:28, 38:44).

“If this really happened to her, it would be horrendous … If she is lying, it is the worst thing in the world.” — Ashleigh Banfield (00:32)

2. Nonverbal Analysis: Interview with Scott Rouse

“Spidey Senses” and Intuitive Discomfort

• Most people—especially women—immediately sense something is "off" in the interviews, even if they can’t pinpoint why (16:27, 17:15).
• Rouse explains that this intuition is backed by cognitive science: women’s brains process more details subconsciously, contributing to stronger gut feelings.

Behavioral Red Flags in Rebecca Haro’s Interview

a. Past Tense References
Rebecca describes Emmanuel in the past tense ("he was a happy boy, he smiled") (19:42, 19:58).

• Potentially a red flag in missing persons language; people usually talk in present tense about those who are missing.
• Rouse concedes sometimes this could be innocent, but context matters:

  “That's one of the first red flags you look for … Are you hearing them say they were a good person … all past tense?” — Scott Rouse (20:08)

b. Disconnect Between Words and Facial Expressions

• Lack of the “glabella” (the grief muscle) activation between the eyebrows—should form an upside-down ‘U’ during real grief, but is missing in Rebecca’s interviews (23:10, 24:18).
• Eyes: She squints using the wrong muscles—suggesting she’s mimicking sadness, not genuinely feeling it. No natural eye muscle engagement, and the whites (sclera) are clear instead of bloodshot, which typically happens after crying (24:31, 26:28).

c. No Physical Signs of Crying

• No tears, runny nose, redness, or nasal wiping observed—a sharp contrast with genuine distress (28:16).

d. Micro-Expressions and Body Language

• Rouse observes brief flashes of fear, but not the sustained panic expected in a mother who’s suddenly lost her child. Her shoulder posture isn’t protective/fearful but instead lifted and forward in an unnatural way for true fear (30:48–32:21).
• Eyebrows are not engaged, forming neither an upside-down U nor any indication of distress—a marker missing both from her and Jake (32:49).

e. Choking/Breathing Patterns

• In authentic emotion, breathing often includes laryngeal spasms or stuttering speech. Rebecca’s “big, deep breaths” do not match the spasms commonly observed in genuine weeping (34:15).

Jake Haro’s Interview Signals

• Similarly, Jake’s expressions do not show grief or real sadness; his demeanor appears “totally fake.” His “anger” flashes briefly (about 1/8th of a second) rather than being a sustained emotional response—suggesting suppressed, not genuine, anger (36:10–37:31):

“He’s got nothing in his brow … His breathing is the worst fake breathing I may have ever seen in my life … This is totally fake, this guy? Yeah. No grief here whatsoever. Or sadness.” — Scott Rouse (36:29)

Additional Analytical Notes

• Mismatch between words and emotions likely contributed to community and law enforcement skepticism.
• Rouse speculates Rebecca might fear Jake, noting her body language when he’s present might reveal further interpersonal dynamics indicative of domestic abuse or intimidation (41:27, 42:06).

Notable Quote

“You can’t quite put your finger on it … What Scott Rouse does is he puts his finger on every single one of the flags when we’re saying something without actually saying something.” — Ashleigh Banfield (42:25)

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Topic/Segment | Timestamp (MM:SS) | |-------------------------------------------|-----------------------| | Ashleigh’s Opening and Case Summary | 00:00–05:45 | | Missing Evidence and Amber Alert Issues | 03:06–05:00 | | TV Interviews: Rebecca and Jake | 06:27–08:45 | | The Investigation Turns | 09:05–13:15 | | Community and Social Services Response | 12:26–13:15 | | Interview with Scott Rouse Begins | 16:03 | | Women’s Intuition, Body Language Science | 16:27–17:52 | | Language and Past Tense Analysis | 19:44–21:01 | | Emotional Expression Breakdown | 22:46–34:15 | | Dad’s Micro-Expressions and Anger | 36:10–37:31 | | Domestic Violence and Family Dynamics | 41:27–42:06 | | Conclusion and Next Steps | 42:23–43:04 |

Memorable Moments and Quotes

On the Case’s Disturbing Duality

“If this really happened to her, it would be horrendous … If she is lying, it is the worst thing in the world.”
— Ashleigh Banfield (00:32)

On Nonverbal Red Flags

“That's one of the first red flags you look for—how they talk about the person that's missing … all past tense … and they don't realize they're doing it.”
— Scott Rouse (20:08)

On Rebecca’s Demeanor

“We’re not seeing anything in her that shows she’s sad or grieving … those muscles should be pulled in or pulled in and upward. But nothing.”
— Scott Rouse (33:04)

On Both Parents

"He's got nothing in his brow ... the worst fake breathing I may have ever seen ... No grief here whatsoever."
— Scott Rouse (36:29)

On Intuitive Reactions

“You can’t quite put your finger on it … What Scott Rouse does is he puts his finger on every single one of the flags when we’re saying something without actually saying something.”
— Ashleigh Banfield (42:25)

Conclusion

Ashleigh closes by highlighting the importance of expertise in translating intuition into observable red flags, reiterating the need for evidence and legal caution while following this rapidly developing, emotionally charged case. She teases ongoing coverage as updates emerge and thanks her true crime community for engaging with these complex, haunting cases.

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