Podcast Summary:
Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Episode: Accused Killer Dad Joins Search for Baby Emmanuel’s Body? | Matt Murphy Breaks It Down
Date: August 26, 2025
Host: Ashleigh Banfield
Guest: Matt Murphy (Veteran Prosecutor, Expert on No-Body Homicide Cases)
Episode Overview
Ashleigh Banfield delves into the disturbing case of Jake and Rebecca Harrow—the San Bernardino couple initially seen as grieving parents searching for their missing baby, Emmanuel, who are now charged with his murder. Cameras recently caught Jake, in prison attire and cuffs, assisting deputies in a search for the baby’s remains. Banfield breaks down the latest developments, discusses investigative tactics, and brings in prosecutor Matt Murphy for expert analysis on the case’s unique legal and forensic challenges.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. The Shocking Turn in the Harrow Case
- Ashleigh recounts the initial narrative: crying parents on TV, an alleged parking lot attack, and a frantic search for a kidnapped child ([00:29]).
- Both parents are now charged with murder after investigators doubted their story and suspected the baby was never kidnapped.
- Notably, Jake Harrow was filmed in cuffs, escorted by officers to search off the highway—suggesting either cooperation or police strategy.
"Why else would you take a guy out of county, right, put him in a cruiser, drive him out into a place adjacent to the desert and have him walking around... if not to ask him to help in finding that baby… Or is it a ploy? Is it a tactic?"
— Ashleigh Banfield ([01:41])
2. Police Tactics: Is It Real Cooperation or a Strategic Move?
- Ashleigh explores the idea that parading Jake out in public may be designed to pressure Rebecca to talk, rather than for genuine investigative reasons ([02:20]).
- Banfield discusses legal strategies, noting detectives are allowed to lie in interrogations as part of extracting the truth ([03:41]).
"Detectives are allowed to lie in the process of trying to, to extract information from the subjects that they're interviewing… It is all part of the investigative process and it is legal, it is allowed."
— Ashleigh Banfield ([03:41])
3. Unverified Reports and Red Flags for Investigators
- Unconfirmed details include:
- Blood reportedly found in the house ([07:20])
- Missing evidence of Emmanuel’s belongings (clothes, etc.) in the home
- Allegations Rebecca deleted photos of Emmanuel and her other children from her phone ([09:48])
- Banfield stresses these are unverified, but such clues are seen as “huge red flags” for police and prosecutors.
"Who has a missing child and decides within a week to just, well, better get rid of all these? Not going to need these anymore. Nobody."
— Ashleigh Banfield ([08:56])
4. Use of Cadaver Dogs and Forensic Parallels
- The San Bernardino Sheriff's Department confirmed the use of cadaver dogs, an investigative step aimed at detecting decomposition ([10:40]).
- Banfield draws a parallel to the Casey Anthony case, where evidence of decomposition was pivotal.
"Decomposition is something that cadaver dogs can determine right away. Maybe that was one of the things that led to the arrest within a week..."
— Ashleigh Banfield ([11:56])
5. Matt Murphy’s Expert Analysis
On Initial Impressions and Prosecution Challenges:
- Murphy, with extensive experience in child abuse homicide cases, shares his heartbreak over such incidents and his immediate suspicion of the parents due to the “nonsensical” initial story ([13:01]).
"My second thought was, he's dead and they've gotten rid of the body. And I've done five no body homicide prosecutions over the course of my career... I just hope that they have the experience to put that one together in the right way."
— Matt Murphy ([13:20])
On Rebecca’s Old Bruise and the Implausibility of Her Story:
- Describes the “old injury” and notes that “people getting knocked out” is often exaggerated in pop culture; actual unconsciousness from assault is rare and medically significant ([14:14]).
On Juror Bias, Media Exposure, and Defendant Rights:
- Clarifies that defendants are entitled to fair juries—not ignorant juries.
- Notes that even in high-profile cases, many jurors come in with little or no knowledge ([16:50]).
On Potential Police Strategy:
- Agrees that publicly using Jake in the search could be a tactic to pressure Rebecca into cooperation—but adds that without inside knowledge, it's speculation ([18:49]).
"Absolutely. Experienced investigators, experienced prosecutors do stuff like that all the time. If you... want to put pressure on somebody to reveal the location of a body, that's one of the many tools..."
— Matt Murphy ([18:49])
On Gendered Public Reaction and Defense Strategies:
- Discusses the tendency for public outrage to focus on mothers in these cases, especially when the mother is the one spinning the initial tale ([19:54]).
- Predicts “the other guy did it” defenses if the couple is tried separately ([20:23]).
"There's an emotional reaction... to a mother who has anything to do with the, with the death of their child."
— Matt Murphy ([19:54])
On Second-Degree Murder and Accessory Charges:
- Outlines likely charges and California sentencing law:
- Second-degree murder typically results in parole hearings after 12 years.
- Accessory after the fact in CA carries a maximum of 18 months—even in murder cases ([22:32]).
- Murphy decries how little time is served in CA for child murder compared to other states ([25:52]).
On Misleading Authorities and Public:
- Discusses possibility of lesser charges for false statements and public misdirection, though these are rarely significant compared to murder ([23:39]).
- Banfield cites the Casey Anthony case as an example of the importance—and limitations—of such charges ([25:18]).
6. The Role of Forensic Evidence and “No Body” Cases
- Murphy and Banfield debunk the “no body, no murder” myth, noting convictions and even death sentences have been secured in cases without a body, based on strong evidentiary context ([27:56]).
"Juries do not want to give the benefit of successfully getting rid of the victim's body. So they will be... if this boy has disappeared... juries don't need a dead body to convict. They really don't."
— Matt Murphy ([26:50])
7. What Happens Next
- Detectives are likely conducting repeated interviews with both parents, reviewing cell phone data, talking to friends, searching for any lead to the baby’s whereabouts ([26:41]).
- Murphy underscores the geographical challenge of recovering remains in the vast California deserts.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On law enforcement tactics:
"Detectives are allowed to lie in the process of trying to extract information…"
— Ashleigh Banfield ([03:41]) -
On gendered judgment:
“There's an emotional reaction... to a mother who has anything to do with the, with the death of their child.”
— Matt Murphy ([19:54]) -
On prosecution without a body:
"Juries do not want to give the benefit of successfully getting rid of the victim's body... juries don't need a dead body to convict. They really don't."
— Matt Murphy ([26:50]) -
On California sentencing:
“In the state of California, the maximum amount of actual jail time you will do for accessory after the fact for murder is 18 months… which is something, in my opinion, like, I've long advocated for that to change."
— Matt Murphy ([22:32])
Important Timestamps
- 00:29 – Ashleigh Banfield begins recap and breakdown of the Harrow case
- 03:41 – Discussion on legality of police lying during investigation
- 07:20–10:40 – Unverified evidence and investigative red flags
- 12:56 – Transition to expert analysis with Matt Murphy
- 13:01 – Murphy shares initial reactions to the case
- 16:50 – On jury selection, publicity, and fair trial concerns
- 18:49 – Police strategy: using one spouse to pressure the other
- 19:54 – Societal reactions toward mothers vs. fathers in child murder cases
- 22:32 – Unusual leniency of CA accessory after the fact laws
- 25:52 – Frustration over short sentences for child murder, compared to other states
- 26:41–27:56 – What homicide detectives are doing right now; difficulties of searching the desert; importance of prosecution without a body
Tone and Style
Ashleigh Banfield’s delivery is direct, occasionally irreverent, with strong opinions informed by decades of true crime reporting. The conversation is critical of the suspects and the criminal justice system, yet aware of legal nuance and investigative uncertainty. Matt Murphy provides a measured, analytical voice, candidly sharing both professional experience and personal frustration with certain aspects of California law.
Summary
This episode provides a deep dive into the case of missing baby Emmanuel Harrow, unpacking the shifting focus from search and rescue to homicide prosecution. Ashleigh Banfield and Matt Murphy explore investigative tactics, the psychology of suspects and juries, forensic red flags, and the limitations of the law—all amid the tragic reality of child homicide. It's a nuanced look at how cases like this are built—and why sometimes, a body is not required for justice.