Bombshell: Kentucky Cheerleader Slapped With New Charges After Secret Birth Horror | Laken Snelling

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield

Episode: Bombshell: Kentucky Cheerleader Slapped With New Charges After Secret Birth Horror | Laken Snelling
Date: March 20, 2026
Host: Ashleigh Banfield
Guest: Abby Escobar (Digital Journalist, Nurse, Creator of @AbbyBlabby True Crime and News)

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Episode Overview

This episode delivers an in-depth look at the disturbing and tragic case of Laken Snelling, a University of Kentucky cheerleader who faced criminal charges after giving birth in secret and the newborn's subsequent death. Ashleigh Banfield guides listeners through the trajectory of the case, from the grim discovery by Snelling’s roommates to the bombshell recent development: a grand jury has handed down a first-degree manslaughter charge. The episode’s central questions revolve around intent, culpability, emotional disturbance, and the complexities that surround these “concealed birth” cases.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recap: The Discovery and Timeline of Events

• Discovery: In August 2025, police responded to a chilling call: a dead baby found in a closet of an off-campus residence near the University of Kentucky (01:19).
• Scene: Officers found a black trash bag in Snelling’s closet containing bloody rags, cleaning supplies, and the body of a newborn (01:40).
• Snelling's Admission: Laken admitted delivering alone, cleaning the scene herself, and placing everything—including the baby—inside the trash bag (02:10).
• Initial Charges: Abuse of a corpse, tampering with evidence, and concealing the birth of an infant. No murder charge initially, pending further investigation (02:30).
• Post-Event Actions: After the incident, Laken left the house, obtained food from McDonald's, stopped by the campus health clinic (but did not go in), then attempted to go to class (03:00). Her roommates, noticing strange noises overnight and blood in the room, discovered the baby when she left (04:05).

2. Snelling’s Account and the Court Documents

• Birthing Alone: Snelling claimed she birthed alone around 4 AM, was awake for 30 minutes, then "passed out" on top of the baby (05:00).
• Baby's Condition: On waking, observed the baby "turning blue and purple"; she "believed the baby to be dead", wrapped him “like a burrito” for comfort, and placed him in the closet (06:00).
• Ambiguous Language: The court documents note both that the baby made a “faint whimper” and showed “a little fetal movement.” Ashleigh underscores that syntax in police filings can be confusing or prejudicial (08:32).
• Cell Phone Evidence: Investigators found deleted pregnancy searches and alleged labor/birth photos on Snelling's phone, which were deleted—arguably to conceal evidence or out of shame/panic (10:50).

3. Roommate Testimony: The Trap at Park Group Chat

• Roommates used Snapchat to communicate, reporting hearing loud noises during the night of the birth (15:00).
• The next morning, Snelling texted them she’d fainted due to not eating, and was going to see a doctor—an account contemporaneous with her later explanation to police and medical staff (16:30).
• The defense may capitalize on the matching timeline, arguing the “passing out” wasn’t invented after the fact.

4. Bombshell Update: New Manslaughter Charge

• Autopsy: The newborn was born alive and cause of death was asphyxia by undetermined means (19:14).
• Grand Jury: Snelling indicted for first-degree manslaughter on March 10, 2026; an arrest warrant followed immediately (19:50).
• Significance: Ashleigh reads the legal language, underscoring the severity (potential 10–20 years in prison) and the legal hurdle of "undetermined means" (20:45).

5. Interview with Abby Escobar (21:18 – 48:17)

a) Delay in Charges (21:18)

• Abby speculates the long wait for indictment related to the autopsy being initially inconclusive, with longer testing required.
• Quote: “I think it definitely has something to do with that autopsy report and being able to prove that she did, allegedly, of course, kill the baby after he was born.” (21:36)

b) Why Manslaughter, Not Murder? (22:03)

• Abby: Surprised it wasn’t upgraded to murder, given evidence of pregnancy knowledge.
• Discussion of Kentucky statute: first-degree manslaughter is a Class B felony (10–20 years).
• Speculates that emotional disturbance and lack of clear premeditation likely factored in.

c) Challenges for the Prosecution and Defense

• Only two people in the room (the mother and infant), difficult to establish intent or premeditation (23:42).
• Coroner could not determine precise asphyxia mechanism—leaving reasonable doubt.
• Ashleigh: “...it’s never easy in a court case when you have undetermined means. Not impossible, but not easy.” (19:24)
• Both host and guest note the legal burden is high: “beyond reasonable doubt, not ‘looks hinky.’” (30:32)

d) Roommates’ Role and Trauma (25:43)

• Roommates suspected pregnancy; found the baby after hearing odd noises (26:34).
• Abby relays that when she reached out, they were too traumatized to speak publicly (29:12).
• Quote: “Seeing a deceased baby in a trash bag... would be an image that I don't think I could ever get out of my mind.” (28:34 - Abby)

e) Patterns in ‘Concealed Birth’ Cases

• Ashleigh references similar cases (e.g., Alexi Treviso, Brooke Skyler Richardson), noting a pattern of “disconnect” and disassociation, sometimes evident in the language mothers use (“it” for the baby).
• Quote: “I think that’s probably disassociation and normal for a lot of these young moms, these teenage moms…” (32:46 - Ashleigh)

f) Medical Complexities and Forensic Nuances

• Discussion on medical complications of unattended childbirth (risk of asphyxiation from vomit/birth fluids, importance of suctioning) and how easily babies can choke (38:22–39:12).
• Abby, as a nurse, reports Snelling was found with low hemoglobin (postpartum blood loss), supporting her claim to have passed out (39:39).
• Both sides may argue whether this is evidence of medical distress or post-facto excuse.

g) Potential for Acquittal or Plea Deal

• Both agree a jury could acquit if defense raises enough doubt about intent or causation; prosecution may be motivated to offer a plea to avoid risking an acquittal (37:47–41:22).
• Quote: “In the end, you gotta convince just 12 people...and they're told, right, reasonable doubt. Not all shadow of a doubt, but reasonable doubt. And that is a really difficult bar.” (40:49 - Ashleigh)

h) Relationship and Family Dynamics

• Ex-boyfriend (the baby’s alleged father) had no idea about the pregnancy, was devastated to learn about the baby’s death (43:59).
• Discussion of the current boyfriend: uncertainty about whether he knew (45:12).
• Abby relates hearsay of the mother’s cold demeanor, possible disappointment over public humiliation; father reportedly saddened and heartbroken (46:00).

i) Broader Reflection

• Judgement and shame predominantly fall on the young mother, not the father (47:19).
• Ashleigh advocates for empathy and caution in judgment, reminding listeners of the complex reality and mental health struggles often involved.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ashleigh Banfield (on emotional complexity):
  “Unless you’ve walked in those shoes, it’s pretty hard to judge what a young person who’s all alone is going through and what she decides to do...” (32:46)

• Abby Escobar (on trauma):
  “Seeing a deceased baby in a trash bag... that would be an image that I don't think I could ever get out of my mind.” (28:34)

• Ashleigh (on reasonable doubt):
  “In the end, you gotta convince just 12 people... reasonable doubt. Not all shadow of a doubt, but reasonable doubt. And that is a really difficult bar.” (40:49)

• Abby (on medical facts for defense):
  “Her hemoglobin level was low... and when your hemoglobin is low, it can cause a number of things, including shortness of breath, lightheadedness, and passing out.” (39:39)

• Ashleigh (on repeating patterns):
  “This might be my fourth or fifth or sixth story of young moms concealing the birth... It doesn’t always happen, though... for this particular case, it feels like they’re going to have to really kind of establish an element of negligence...” (30:32)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:19: Start of case background and timeline
• 04:05: Police report details and Snelling’s statements
• 10:50: Discussion of cell phone evidence
• 15:00: Snapchat group chat/roommate suspicions
• 19:14: Bombshell: new autopsy and manslaughter indictment
• 21:18-48:17: Interview with Abby Escobar
• 25:43: Role and trauma of roommates
• 32:46: Conversation about mental health, judgment, and language (calling the baby “it”)
• 37:47: Discussion of plea deals and trial risks
• 39:39: Medical evidence and hemoglobin discussion
• 43:59: The boyfriends and family dynamics
• 46:00: Information about parents' reactions

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Takeaways

• The Laken Snelling case is fraught with ambiguity, both medically and emotionally. The prosecution will face significant challenges proving intent or direct cause of death, and the defense has several avenues to raise doubt.
• The story is also a microcosm of larger societal issues: mental health, stigma, the burden placed on young women in concealed pregnancy/newborn death cases, and the complexities of the legal process.
• Banfield and Escobar, maintaining an empathetic but investigative tone, push listeners to withhold quick judgment and recognize the nuances.

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For Listeners Seeking More

This episode is a must for anyone interested in the intersection of true crime, forensic ambiguity, and mental health, as well as those tracking the evolution of concealed birth cases in America.

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Transcript

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[Ashley Banfield]

Hey everybody, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is drop dead serious. Welcome to the Vermont Outpost. It's nice to have you here. If you've been a part of our podcast for a while, thank you. If you're brand new, thank you and hit subscribe. It is great. We so appreciate it. All of our subscribers, but also all of our members. You guys have been amazing and thank you so much for your support. Means everything. When you're an independent journalist like this, it means the world. So little different story tonight. If you've been following the saga of a young woman named Lakan Snelling, young University of Kentucky cheerleader, you may remember that back in September 2025, Ms. Snelling found herself in a world of hurt. And that's because her roommates, housemates she was living with, found something in her closet. It was a dead baby. It was Lakin's dead baby. And that baby was wrapped up and stuffed in the closet, presumably to hide the fact that there was a baby at anytime. And we've got a lot to update you on because here we are seven months later and I was sort of wondering, where is that case? And wouldn't you know it, big update dropped. And it turns out, yeah, we have been waiting a while, but it's an update that I don't think Lake and Snell wanted to hear. It does not bode well for her. And I'm going to get to all the details in just a minute, but I want to just get you up to speed on the details of the case because I almost forgot a few of them because it's been so long. Right, let me take you all the way back to August 27th again, 2025. Last summer, police got a phone call and they were dispatched to an off campus home near the University of Kentucky in Lexington. And the words from the dispatch were, I guess chilling is a one way to describe it, but just very disturbing. A dead baby in the closet, cold to the touch, that's what they were told. So officers get there to the house that they're sent to, and they go to the bedroom that they're told to go to, and they open the closet door that they're told to open. And what they find inside is what no officer is ever prepared for. A black trash bag. It's Lake and Snelling's bedroom. It's her closet. And inside the trash bag they find used cleaning supplies, they find bloody rags. And in amongst all of that, they find the body of a newborn infant, not alive. And according to the police, Lake and Snelling admitted that she had given birth alone in that bedroom. She had cleaned up everything that had happened, cleaned up the scene alone, and had placed everything, the supplies, the blood, the baby's body, into that trash bag. So obviously Lakin was arrested and she was charged. But the charges were odd at the time. A lot of people were wondering, where's the murder charge? But there was no murder charge. There was still a lot of investigation to do to figure out what happened in that bedroom. Ms. Snelling was charged with abuse of a corpse, tampering with evidence, and concealing the birth of an infant. But they're serious enough charges, right? And they set her bond at a hundred thousand dollars, but she was able to post it or her family, whoever it was, they posted it and she was released to house arrest at her parents homes in Jefferson City, Tennessee. But they, they live separately. Mom and dad live separately. So according to court documents, Lakin claimed that she delivered this baby and was awake for about a half hour after giving birth. But then she says she passed out and that she passed out right on top of the newborn baby. She says when she came to, she could see that the infant was, quote, turning blue and purple, end quote. And believing that the baby had died, Lakin admitted that she had wrapped the baby up, quote, like a burrito, quote, because it, quote, gave her comfort, end quote. And yet in those same documents, those court documents, Lakin also admitted that the baby showed, quote, a little fetal movement, end quote. Very strange thing to say. But then she also mentioned that the baby gave a faint whimper when he was born. That's going to matter a lot. Wait for it. It's coming. Instead of dialing 911 or yelling out to her roommates, help me. I'm in trouble and I need help. She did none of those things. She, like she said, wrapped everything up and put it in the garbage bag and put it in her closet and then left. Left the house. And what she did next is the subject of a lot of consternation. People are not happy when they hear this detail. She went to McDonald's and got some food and ate that food. Now, before you pass judgment, know this. Anyone who's ever given birth, when you finally get through it all, many of us, maybe not all, but certainly me, you're starving. You have been through hell. You have run a marathon. You are starving. There's really no other way to put it. And all the hospitals know it, and they bring it. They bring the food to you. So for those who are passing judgment, maybe this is the only place where she could get food. And she was sick, so hungry and feeling weak. It's possible, right? So it might sound awful. I'm just going to go to McD's, get something to eat. The other side of that coin is, is that I'm starving and this is the closest place, and it's a drive through, and she had a car. So after McDonald's, she then stopped by the campus health clinic. But from all the reports, it looks like she just stayed there, parked, did not go inside, and instead decided not to go inside and to go to class. Her roommates ultimately went into her room and looked in the closet, and that's where they found the baby. I want to read to you this, like, section here, part of the court documents, and I want to read directly from them, but you better brace yourself. It's kind of hard to listen to this. It's pretty triggering for, I think, a lot of people, too. Quote, Ms. Snelling stated that around 4am she gave birth to a baby which fell into the floor of her bedroom. Ms. Snelling stated that she didn't think the baby was breathing or was alive. Ms. Snelling advised that she was awake for around 30 minutes after giving birth before falling on top of the baby. Ms. Snelling said that when she woke up from passing out, she quickly got up and observed the baby turning blue and purple. And before I go on, I should say to you, many times, these are the words of reporting officers, right? They're called affiants. This affiant witnessed this and this affiant saw this. And a lot of times these are the words of officers. And so it's their prose, right? It's their prose, it's their writing of their experience. And I have seen police reports and affidavits before that were just appalling, like so many errors and just the wrong way to describe something in ways that are far more indicting of the person than what the person actually said. So just take this with a grain of salt. This is the. This is the recollections of a. Of an officer and what the officer is writing. I will continue. Lakin said that she believed the baby to be dead and wrapped the baby up like a burrito and laid next to it in the floor because it gave her a little comfort in the moment. I'm not 100% sure if Leighton used the it or if the officer used the it, but the baby is referred to in it. We know the baby is a boy. Ms. Snelling said that she was woken up by her alarm at 7:30am for class. At 9:30, Ms. Nelling said that she noticed that she was still bloody and needed to get a shower. Snelling said that she went to the kitchen to get a black trash bag. Ms. Snelling said that she placed the baby, which was still wrapped up, inside of the towel and inside of the black trash bag and placed the black trash bag in the closet. Ms. Snelling said that she went and took a shower to clean up. Ms. Snelling said that after taking the shower, she came back into her room and started to clean up the rest of the blood. Ms. Snelling said that she used paper towels and the towel she had wrapped the baby in to clean up the rest of the blood. Ms. Snelling said that she placed the placenta inside of a Ziploc bag and placed it inside of the black trash bag. Ms. Snelling said she wrapped the baby back up with the towel that she had cleaned the rest of the blood up with. Ms. Snelling stated she then placed the black trash bag back into the closet and shut the door. Ms. Nelling stated that she left her residence after this and went to school. Lakin. Interesting. They switched from Ms. Snelling to Lakin here, but just once. Lakin stated that she did not go into class, but sat in her vehicle in the parking lot. Ms. Snelling stated that she wasn't feeling well, so she ordered McDonald's through the McDonald's app. Ms. Snelling said that after getting McDonald's she went to. To the University of Kentucky's student clinic, where she also did not go inside. After this, Ms. Snelling stated she returned home, where she was detained and transported to headquarters for questioning. It should be noted. And again, this is still quoting from the. From the court documents, it should be noted that when speaking to medical staff at the University of Kentucky labor and Delivery, she stated that the baby had a little bit of fetal movement but passed out shortly after. So syntax is everything here. This is the officer's wording that the baby had a little bit of fetal movement. Lakin might have said, I think I saw the baby move or an eye move. But this is the wording of the officer had a little bit of fetal movement and then the syntax is. But passed out shortly after. Is that the baby passed out or Laken Snelling passed out? I think it's Lake and Snelling. But it's hard to tell from the way this is written because, again, these are not often written perfectly. And there can be syntax problems that can lead to misunderstandings later on. I saw that in Duke La Crosse as well. A terrible, terrible affidavit that was written by an officer. Terrible. Ms. Snelling stated during her questioning by myself and Detective Martinez that the only time she passed out was around 30 minutes after giving birth, which leads me to believe that the baby could have been moving. So the officer talking. Ms. Snelling also told medical staff that the baby made a, quote, whimper, end quote, and that she, quote, guessed, quote, the baby was alive. All right, that's the end of the. The quoting directly from, you know, the court documents. But search warrants of Lake and Snelling's cell phone actually revealed some interesting stuff. Some deleted pregnancy searches that included pregnancy hashtags for different weeks of being pregnant on Facebook and labor photos and other evidence that investigators say point to a concealed pregnancy. The court documents go on to say that there were photos of Lakin, quote, during labor and photos of her doing things ordinary pregnant women would not be doing, end quote. And get this, again, this is a quote. The photos that were taken while she was in labor were deleted in an attempt to hide the birth. So I'm just going to jump in here because I believe it's possible that Lake and Snelling was giving birth alone and could not see beyond her own belly and didn't know what was happening and may have used her phone to videotape or photograph the stage that she was in or if the head was crowning or whether the baby was coming out and then could see what was going on. If you say as a prosecutor, she deleted them to. To conceal evidence of the birth. I could see a defense attorney saying she deleted them because she didn't want anyone to see this.

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[Ashley Banfield]

was using it as a mirror, so to speak. But she didn't want anyone to ever see that. So I could see an argument against that charge, right, that she's facing concealment, hiding the birth could be seen two different ways. So if you think all of that is bad, there's more. So buckle up here. Detectives interviewed all of Lake and Snelling's roommates. And one of them, a girl named Aaron Hamilton, told the police that everyone in the house used a Snapchat group. And. And the chat was called the Trap at Park. For whatever reason, that's what they named it. And the affidavit goes on to say that in the early morning hours of August 27, about 4 o' clock in the morning, one of the roommates messaged that whole group that she heard loud noises like something had fallen. And another roommate said that she heard it, too, and that the impact was so strong it actually knocked a picture off of her wall. That is a lot. One roommate said the noises went on for about a half an hour. At 8:48am that next morning, Lakin texted the group saying those noises were caused by her fainting. She told her roommates that she hadn't been feeling well, hadn't eaten and had passed out. She added that she was going to see a doctor at 8:48am that's the next morning. Lakin texted the entire group on Snapchat saying the noises that they heard were caused by her fainting. She told her roommates that she hadn't been feeling well, that she hadn't eaten and that she'd passed out. She added that she was going to see a doctor. It's important that she is contemporaneously saying to her roommates just within hours of this baby being born that she passed out. Right, because her argument in court is going to be I passed out and smothered the baby. I didn't kill the baby. I passed out on the baby. And she has contemporaneous reporting from just hours after it happened that she told her roommate she passed out the night before. Now, I don't know if this is after hours of Lake and Snelling sitting there thinking, well, gosh, if I ever get in trouble for this and there's asphyxiation and I need to have a reason for asphyxiating, I better tell everybody I passed out on the baby and smothered the baby. Well, I'm not so sure because I think what Lake and Snelling might have been doing was putting the baby in a garbage bag to get rid of the baby and never ever tell anyone she was pregnant. So this is going to be huge for her defense attorney to be able to say, hey, you all think she's making this up for the police. She told her roommates that morning that the noise they heard was her passing out. And she told police later she actually passed out on the baby. So it's just a, it's something her defense attorney is going to be able to seize on, regardless of what she told her roommates. The roommates weren't convinced about this and they were very curious about what had happened in that bedroom to have all that noise at 4am so they went into Lakin's room and what they found there was horrifying, shocking. They found a blood soaked towel on the floor. They found a plastic bag containing evidence of childbirth. And when they opened the closet, they found the body of a newborn baby boy placed in bags. The affidavit notes that the baby appeared to be full term. That roommate, Aaron Hamilton, also told investigators that all of the roommates actually suspected, suspected that Lakin might have been pregnant, but wasn't admitting it. So fast forward to today and it is March 11th. I am recording this podcast March 11th, 2026. And the world of hurt that I referred to at the top of the episode just hit her full force. Because it turns out that that newborn baby was, in fact, born alive. That's what the autopsies are saying. Yeah. The baby's autopsy report determined that the infant's cause of death was asphyxia by undetermined means. That's important. Undetermined means. It's never easy in a court case when you have undetermined means. Not impossible, but not easy. You don't have the answer as to what it was that asphyxiated that baby. The doctors couldn't tell. Coroner couldn't tell. That's not going to be easy. But the biggest development that we just learned about Lake and Snelling was that a grand jury has added a manslaughter charge to her case. A first degree manslaughter charge. And you might know that she was already facing abuse of a corpse, tampering with physical evidence, concealing the birth of an infant. Right. They said, remember her phone? She deleted the pictures. Concealing. Well, maybe she wasn't concealing it. Maybe she was deleting the pictures because she didn't want anyone to see them. Because that's my business. So that could be argued as well. The indictment was reported on March 10, and by March 11, an arrest warrant had been issued for Lake and Snelling. All right, and I want to read you that language in the indictment for that count. For count one, manslaughter in the first degree. It says manslaughter, first degree, when with intent to cause serious physical injury to the infant, she caused the death of the infant or with the intent to cause the death of the infant under circumstances which do not constitute murder because she acted under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance or through circumstances not otherwise constituting the offense of murder, she intentionally abused the infant and thereby caused death to a person 12 years of age or less or who is physically helpless or mentally helpless. In Kentucky, manslaughter in the first degree is punishable by 10 to 20 years in prison. So it's very, very serious. You know, for that reason, I called Abby Escobar. Abby knows a lot about this case. She is a digital journalist. She has a very popular TikTok account called Abby Blabby True Crime and News. And not only has she been following this case, she also knows a lot about this kind of an alleged crime. Why do I say that? Well, here's the conversation I had with her earlier. So, Abby, why do you think it took so long to indict the Lake and Snelling case?

[Abby Escobar]

You know what? I really don't know. This whole time I've been wondering, is the autopsy report back? Because, remember, the first one was inconclusive, and then they had to do further testing, but it's been months since that inconclusive report came out. So I. I don't know how long the testing took, if they just got it back, you know, within the past few days, or if they've had that result for a while now and they just chose to sit on it. But I think it definitely has something to do with that autopsy report and being able to prove that she did, allegedly, of course, kill the baby after he was born.

[Ashley Banfield]

So what was the biggest surprise when you saw the actual indictment?

[Abby Escobar]

I think the biggest surprise to me was that they chose to charge her with first degree manslaughter and not with murder. And it said on there because she was going through something about emotional distress or emotional disturbances, but they had found evidence on her phone when they searched it that she allegedly had knowledge that she was pregnant and had done searches regarding pregnancy. So I don't really know how, if she really knew she was pregnant, why they would allow her to get a manslaughter charge and not murder because she was going through, you know, some sort of emotional crisis.

[Ashley Banfield]

Well, that's surprising to me as well. And I'm curious about first degree manslaughter. I mean, do you have any knowledge about Kentucky and how unique that particular charge is, what the elements are, and why that might pertain or not pertain to Lincoln Snelling's situation?

[Abby Escobar]

I really don't know. The only thing I know about it is that it's a class B felony, and if she's convicted of it, she faces between 10 and 20 years in prison.

[Ashley Banfield]

It's a lot. It's a lot. You know, typically, were you. Well, first, were you thinking that it might actually be a murder charge that they come up with in the grand jury?

[Abby Escobar]

I did. But, you know, at the same time, it's been so long, I feel like that I was starting to feel like this entire case was just getting swept under the rug. So even though it wasn't a murder charge, I'm glad that they're at least charging her with manslaughter, because I feel like a lot of times in these types of situations, the women don't really get, you know, significant charges anyway.

[Ashley Banfield]

Well, you know, here we are, what, seven months since that baby died, and we're just now sort of moving along with the process, I guess it's so difficult because there are only two people in the room, the mother and the child. Right. And so much can go wrong during childbirth. It truly can. You know, even in a hospital, so much can go wrong. And so it's very, very difficult to determine what exactly happened and whether there was premeditation, because for murder, you've got to have the premeditation, meaning as soon as baby's born, I'm going to make, you know, this problem go away. And I guess the. The one thing I'm interested in is the autopsy says that the. There was what, Asphyxiation. But they don't know how.

[Abby Escobar]

Yes, And I'm wondering how they figured that out. I'm wondering if there was maybe bruising across his neck or chest or something. But at the same time, she told them that she passed out and fell directly on top of the baby. But somehow they were able to determine it was not the result of a fall, you know, that it was asphyxiation. So I'm really wondering how they found that out.

[Ashley Banfield]

Well, you know, you can asphyxiate on your own vomit or your own fluids. And I wonder just about the child's mouth, because when a baby is born, they suction the fluids, the birth fluids out of the mouth. And maybe that child, maybe they're considering the possibility that this child aspirated those fluids, and that's asphyxiation as well. But, you know, this, I think, is the quandary about this particular case and what prosecutors thought they may or may not be able to convince a jury of.

[Abby Escobar]

Right.

[Ashley Banfield]

I'm really curious about the people who may be a part of this case, because she had multiple roommates. I don't know why five comes to mind, but there were a lot of roommates, female roommates, in the house where she was living.

[Abby Escobar]

Maybe three.

[Ashley Banfield]

Three, was it three?

[Abby Escobar]

Maybe.

[Ashley Banfield]

And they're. And they were the. They were the ones who discovered the. The baby, weren't they?

[Abby Escobar]

Yeah, they were. They had suspicions that she was pregnant because after they came back to school that fall semester, you know, in August, after having the summer off, you know, in most pregnancies, I feel like you grow the most in the last trimester. So that would have been over the summer. So I heard that this. The roommates noticed a very big change in not just her belly, but, you know, when you're pregnant, you know, your face and your hips widen, just kind of everything. And so they had suspicions that she was pregnant. And then you know, that morning there was a lot of noise and, you know, just kind of odd things. And I guess after she left for class, they got suspicious and they snooped in her room and that's when they found the baby.

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[Ashley Banfield]

Oh, I can't even imagine what that discovery would be like.

[Abby Escobar]

Seeing a deceased baby in a trash bag. I mean, that would be an image that I don't think I could ever get out of my mind.

[Ashley Banfield]

And we've had babies, so I mean, right? At least have some knowledge of what things can look like. I can't even imagine kids in their, you know, early 20s or late teens coming across this. It's just not what they would ever expect.

[Abby Escobar]

No, absolutely not.

[Ashley Banfield]

So presumably they would be witnesses in this case, the housemates, maybe the actual housemates who discovered the baby and maybe housemates who just heard things overnight.

[Abby Escobar]

Yeah, probably all of them. And I'm not gonna lie to you, it was pretty early on in this case. I actually reached out to one of her roommates and asked if she would like to talk, if she would interview with me, anything. And she was very sweet, but she explained that she. They're just so traumatized, in so much shock from what they saw. She was like, I just. I'm sorry, but I just cannot talk about it. It is true. Too traumatic. And of course, I fully understood that because that would be traumatic for anybody.

[Ashley Banfield]

Well, you listen. Yeah. I mean, not just the discovery, but then also your friend is criminal justice system right now facing a possibility of being locked up for decades. And this is just not. This was not on their bingo card.

[Abby Escobar]

No, that's another thing. You know, you think you know somebody, you know, and you think this person would never do this. But, you know, I'm really glad that they followed through on those suspicions because Lakin might have came home later that afternoon or the evening, and she might have, you know, taken out the trash. You know, the baby was in a trash bag. And nobody. I mean, there's a chance that nobody would have found out had they not gone in that room. And it makes me wonder how many times things like this happen that just never get discovered.

[Ashley Banfield]

Lots. Trust me. I've. Listen, I've. I think, gosh, I have to go back and count now, but I think this might be my fourth or fifth or sixth story of young moms concealing the birth of their children and being charged with murdering their. Their newborns. It doesn't always happen, though. I mean, many of the ones I've covered have. Have not been convicted of that. Again, because you have to be very specific. Again, it's beyond a reasonable doubt. It's not. I think you did something. It sure looks hinky. That's not the standard in court. And childbirth is a very, very difficult thing when, especially when you're by yourself, all the things that go wrong when you're alone. The umbilical cord and the suctioning of the mouth and the starting of the breathing. Did Lakin at one point say. I think I rem. That she could hear the baby whimper or hear the baby make a sound?

[Abby Escobar]

Yep. She stated at the hospital, and she told the police that when the baby came out that he did whimper. So she admitted right then and there that he was born alive. I think the burden, of course, is that they had to prove that he's no longer alive because of something that she did. But, yeah, she admitted, and it's in the police report, that she told them that he whimpered and then she passed out about half an hour after he was born and conveniently landed directly on top of the baby. And then when she came to, the baby was blue and purple and she thought he was dead. So that's when she made that comment about wrapping him up like a burrito. She said, I wrapped him up like a burrito and then I laid next to it, she said, because it gave her comfort in that moment. She called the baby it. And I'm just like, gosh, there's just such a disconnect. And that's frequent with cases like this. I feel like, you know, with who was the cheerleader? There was Alexi Treviso, there was Brooke Skyler Richardson and so many others. There's a complete disconnect, you know, And I think Alexi Treviso called her baby it as well.

[Ashley Banfield]

I think that that's probably disassociation and normal for a lot of these young moms, these teenage moms, et cetera. Listen, and I know people will jump all over me for showing compassion, but unless you've walked in those shoes, it's pretty hard to judge what a young person who's all alone is going through and what she decides to do. It's. It's a very. I mean, it's an awful thing. It is illegal. It is murder. It can be murder. Not. Not saying that for this particular case. But. But what's in the. What's the intent? I don't think you can ascribe the intent being the same for all of these. These young women, these. These teenagers, these moms. But in this particular case, it feels like they're going to have to really kind of establish an element of negligence or I don't think recklessness, because at this point, I don't think you're at a level with manslaughter of recklessness, but a negligence, meaning you. You had this baby, you knew you were having this baby and you passed out. I mean, I guess if you pass out medically, you don't have any control over that. But I think that may be the. The linchpin in this case where they can say to the jury, this child may have asphyxiated because of the passing out, and who's going to say, oh, you never pass out after giving birth.

[Abby Escobar]

Right? Right, absolutely. But I think another question that's going to get brought up is she said that she passed out about 30 minutes after the baby was born. So I think the question is, what was happening during those 30 minutes? Why didn't you call 911 for help? Why didn't you holler out for one of your roommates? You know, she allegedly, per the police report, had her phone out and was taking pictures during childbirth. So your phone was right there. Why didn't you call somebody? So I think that's going to be a very valid point, too, is that she didn't pass out, allegedly, according to what she said, for half an hour. So there was time, you know, if she was feeling weak or lightheaded or anything like that, there was. There was time to get help, and she chose for whatever reason not to get it.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah, that's going to be really hard to explain away, those 30 minutes. Although I keep coming back to. Look, I've been through childbirth twice, and I had the, you know, all the first world trappings. I had an epidural for the first one before anything really got crazy. And I had an epidural about an hour into the worst hell I've ever been through. And I was also close to 40, you know, pretty well informed about everything I'd seen all my friends and family all having babies. And so she's not me, you know, and I cannot imagine what it would be like to be in your bedroom by yourself at this, what, she, 20, 21. I mean, just so young. Yeah. And. And go through this with no painkillers, no knowledge of really what's happening. I believe that's why the phone came out, because she couldn't see. And the only way you can see, I bring my phone out all the time, just what I can't see. I use my phone to see for me. And that's what I believe she may have been doing. But imagine the terror and the fear and maybe once that relief happens, that when the baby's born, 30 minutes isn't very long to sort of catch your breath and figure out what's just happened.

[Abby Escobar]

That's true. Yeah, that's very true. Yeah. And it'll be interesting if it does go to trial. It'll be interesting what the defense says. And if Lakin were to get up on the stand herself and tell people her side of things. I don't think it would go to trial. I think there would probably be a plea deal offered But I mean, who knows? It's obviously very early still into this case, especially with this brand new indictment.

[Ashley Banfield]

Well, that's an interesting prospect. You bring up a plea deal. What do you think? I mean, first you. Remandslaughter 10 to 20. Okay, but what do you think would be acceptable to a lesser procure who. Well, prosecutor, who doesn't maybe have everything. You don't have video, you don't have absolute truths of what happened in that room. Do you think that they would have to accept an element of prison time from her or no deal?

[Abby Escobar]

You know, I really wonder because like you said, there were only two people in that room that day. So I think that even if the prosecution has this document from the medical examiner saying that the cause of the baby's death was asphyxiation and that he was born alive, I mean, people. People argue autopsies all the time. I mean, we've seen court cases where they bring in multiple people and they all give a different cause of death, you know, different ways that it happened. So I think that could possibly be argued. And I think that the prosecutors really, I see them having a difficult time proving the case. So it might come down to them being like, well, hey, let's get her on something. You know?

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah, I could see a jury. I could see a jury acquitting only because of a good defense attorney who says, you don't know from this autopsy what the asphyxiation was. You don't even know how this baby, you know, Right. Asphyxiated. It could have been anything. It could have actually been reaspirating something. And sure, maybe the child made sounds, but then, I mean, I've choked on my lemonade enough as a grown adult that I know it can be really, really difficult. And, oh, I remember my son choking on a little piece of Cheerio, and I nearly died. Called 91 1. Paramedics came.

[Abby Escobar]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ashley Banfield]

And they told me, and I hope everybody listening right now spreads this story far and wide. They said it is the number one call we get as paramedics for babies. Cheerios. And we all think you give your baby Cheerios because they got a hole in the middle and they can breathe. Bullshit. No, it's a lie. The. The opening of a. Of a newborn or even a little baby's breathing. The airway is. Is tinier than like a. The. The wedge of a pencil. It's so small. And so a tiny piece of Cheerio broken off is enough for them to. For them to choke. And so it's Very, very little. You know, the breathing tube is very, very little for a baby. And a droplet of, you know, amniotic fluid, whatever it is, that might still be in the baby's mouth. Could it be?

[Abby Escobar]

I mean, there's all kinds of things.

[Ashley Banfield]

Exactly. Yeah. So I think these are the conversations. And here we are. We're not even medical professionals. We're just journalists. Well, I'm. What? You're what?

[Abby Escobar]

I'm a nurse. I've been. I've been. Yeah. For 15 years.

[Ashley Banfield]

Well, there you go. Friends. I got the right guest for many years. Oh, yeah.

[Abby Escobar]

Dad's a doctor, mom's a nurse. My boyfriend's a critical care pulmonologist. We're all medical over here. No.

[Ashley Banfield]

So you know how many things can go wrong. Right?

[Abby Escobar]

Yeah. And I. Yes. And, you know, I was. I was told. And I don't remember if this was in the police report or not, but I remember hearing that after Lakin was detained and she asked to go to the hospital to be evaluated, which they, of course allowed because she was postpartum. I was told that her hemoglobin level was low and that she needed to get a blood transfusion. And when your hemoglobin is low, it can cause a number of things, including shortness of breath, lightheadedness, and passing out. So that's another thing that the defense can really elaborate on that. Hey, she told police she passed out and the hemoglobin level was low. So there's a very good chance that she really did pass out. Yeah, well, and then, of course, she got up and she went to cleaned up and, you know, cleaned up and then drove to McDonald's and did all those things. So that's something that the prosecution, of course, could argue. Well, if your hemoglobin's low, it's not just going to go up on its own. So if you passed out, then how are you able to do all of these other things? So there's going to be very, very good and valid arguments from both sides. If it ends up going there, well,

[Ashley Banfield]

then, you know, for that very reason. And again, I'm not weighing in one way or the other whether Lincoln is guilty of this or not. But I just. I just see so many things that the defense can use and the prosecutors. But in the end, you got to convince just 12 people that, you know, they're not experts and they're just listening to the different arguments and then they're told, right, reasonable doubt. Not all shadow of a doubt, but reasonable doubt. And that Is a really difficult bar. It is a very difficult bar. So I could see prosecutors saying she get a full acquittal.

[Abby Escobar]

Yeah, we don't have enough. Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, the prosecution, they have to convince 12 people, but a defense attorney at least to get a mistrial. One person. That's all. Yep. So.

[Ashley Banfield]

And a missed trial is a win for now, but you know, you still have to face the piper. But the ultimate deal is, is that like I had a, I had very far tangential reference here, but my godmother was murdered and my and her husband went on trial for the murder and it took three trials, you know, so there are times though when prosecutors finally just give up. So even a mistrial, right? You know, one mistrial, sure, they're probably gon give it another go round. But if you get another one person, sometimes there's just fatigue and it costs money as well. And prosecutors.

[Abby Escobar]

So it can to the point where they just kind of throw their hands up and they say, hey, we don't have enough. We can't do it. Yeah, there are some things in our favor, but there's a lot of things that aren't in our favor that we can't prove.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah.

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[Abby Escobar]

Oh, yeah.

[Ashley Banfield]

What's the story about the boyfriends? As I recall, the father of the late child, it was not her current boyfriend. It was her ex boyfriend. So what is the status of the.

[Abby Escobar]

The.

[Ashley Banfield]

The current boyfriend at the time and the ex boyfriend and where do they weigh in on all of it?

[Abby Escobar]

So the ex boyfriend had no idea at all that she was pregnant. So this was all a very huge surprise to him to find out, hey, guess what? That girl you dated, you know, 10 months ago, nine months ago, whatever it was, you know, she was pregnant, she had a baby and the baby's dead. And now we're wanting to do a DNA test and, you know, all this stuff to prove that you're the father and then come to find out you are the father. I have heard from family members of his, and they were. They were devastated. I mean, they. They had absolutely no clue. They were absolutely heartbroken and devastated. Now, the current boyfriend, I haven't heard anything about him. I don't know if they're still together. Well, I would assume they're not, right? I mean, she can't leave her house. She has to stay at her dad's house.

[Ashley Banfield]

And who knows what their relationship was like. And maybe the pregnancy happened before they became an item, so it wouldn't be that she cheated on him or anything,

[Abby Escobar]

but, you know, but I. But I can't imagine what would be like finding out that your girlfriend was pregnant by the man before you, which, hey, that happens, but that the baby was born and she allegedly ended his life and then put him in a trash can and then put him in the closet. Like, I. I can't imagine how the current boyfriend felt.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah.

[Abby Escobar]

Hearing all that, you know, and part of me wonders if he knew that she was pregnant because, I mean, how do you. How could you not?

[Ashley Banfield]

You and I are on the same page. Like, how do you.

[Abby Escobar]

Yeah.

[Ashley Banfield]

I mean.

[Abby Escobar]

No, yeah, it wasn't one of those, like, cryptic back pregnancies, you know, where you can't tell at all. Like, she looked pregnant. Like, And I say that in the nicest way, but, like, she looked pregnant and he obviously saw parts of her that nobody else saw. So it really makes me wonder if he had his suspicions about her being pregnant and what she told him.

[Ashley Banfield]

If he knew, maybe they had a platonic love affair. Who knows? Everybody's different.

[Abby Escobar]

Yeah.

[Ashley Banfield]

What do we know about Lakin's family and how supportive or otherwise they are?

[Abby Escobar]

So I haven't heard anything about her parents except for at the very beginning. I guess the dad was very sad and very disappointed in what was going on. But I was told that the mother. So Lakin's mother, baby's grandmother, was just very cold about all of it. And she had made some comments at, I think it was a funeral that they did for the baby. And I don't remember what those comments were now. I'd have to go back and look. But I remember being told by actually multiple people that were there that she was just very cold, had, like this mean look on her face and almost like, well, you know, Lakin was her golden child. Lakin was, like, picture perfect, you know, pageant queen and cheerleader and just was the golden child. So I don't know if maybe the mom was like, great, now my golden child's in the spotlight and we all look bad. And, you know, I mean. I mean, who knows? But I just. I know from. I shouldn't say. I know I was told that Lakin's father was very sad and he was heartbroken, but that the mother was not.

[Ashley Banfield]

It's heartbreaking all around, you know, look, most people, not everybody who's listening, would say there's nothing wrong with having sex. Accidents happen. Disasters can happen. After that, people can put their head in the sand and blind themselves to reality. There could be mental health issues that go along with that. And I don't doubt that there are a lot of mental health issues that go along with young women who find themselves pregnant and are terrified and lost and don't know what to do. But all the judgment falls on the girl, you know, doesn't fall on the boy who was also in that relationship. Just all falls on the girl. Everything. The weight of it all. So it's just something to keep in mind as we, you know, many people pass judgment very, very quickly, and we all need to walk in those shoes before we pass every piece of judgment. Not to say some isn't true. But. Hey, Abby, thank you. Because I know you're, like, rushing out and you've got ahead and you squeezed us in, so I really appreciate this. Yeah, thanks for having us, Nurse Abby.

[Abby Escobar]

Yeah. Yeah. I know a lot of people think I do this full time, but I'm a nurse. But I love it. And thank you so much for having me on.

[Ashley Banfield]

All the reasons that I love you even more. Thank you. So there you have it. We'll continue to watch this case because I, for one, I'm with Abby. I think there may be a deal offered in this case. I can't imagine this going to trial. It's too risky. Sure, I can see evidence that that could lead to a conviction, but I can also see a lot that wouldn't. And if you're the prosecutor in this case, they don't like going to trial if they don't think they can win. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for watching. And don't forget, if you haven't already hit subscribe. It's it's really big for me. I appreciate it. And remember this. The truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.

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