Sheriff (4:28)

We have some things, I think, that will maybe come out reasonably soon from DOJ or FBI or whoever that could be suspect. Yeah, it could be definitive. A lot. A lot's taken place in the last couple of hours. A lot of. A lot of things have happened with regard to that horrible situation the last couple of hours.

Weight Watchers Narrator (4:55)

I think that we will maybe come out reasonably soon. FBI, DOJ could be definitive. A lot has taken place in the last couple of hours. And all of this at a time when there's this frenetic activity out in front of Nancy Guthrie's home, as well as a new ransom. I'm not going to say ransom, because they're not calling it a ransom note, but a new communications note sent to, again, a TV station. And the way this is sent makes a lot more sense now because we all thought they were being emailed. And why were they being emailed to certain people and who turns out no tip line, webmail, like just through the website. You know, when you set up a customer service comment and they say, put your address here and put your comment here and, you know, send in your comments. That is how this latest communication came in. I'll explain all of that in a moment. It's KOLD TV in Tucson. But they're not calling it a ransom note. They're saying it's more like a message. And I wouldn't say it's helpful. They're not saying everything about it, trust me. But let me just say this. Not helping to further communications, but back, back to the developments tonight. Agents are back in two locations. Nancy Guthrie's home, which is the crime scene. Four miles down the road. Annie Guthrie's home. Nancy Guthrie's daughter, Savannah Guthrie's sister. So it's midnight eastern right now and 10 o' clock ish in Tucson, and agents showed up at Annie Guthrie's home. Three of them, according to Brian Entin, who's there watching. He's got eyes on. And they showed up in the COVID of darkness and then left. I don't. I don't know what to make of that. So much that's happening has been unusual in this case, including some of the comments from law enforcement all throughout this. Lots of backtracking, lots of sort of confusing messaging, not the least of which is who dropped Nancy Guthrie off. The sheriff has said three different things and then walked it all back saying, we're just going to go with family now. We really don't even know who the last person or people was, you know, to see Nancy Guthrie. I found that odd. I found a lot of the wording of the press conference yesterday odd. I found it odd that a lot of the press didn't pick up on the fact that the sheriff said the car has been towed per a warrant and it's being processed. I believe I reported on Tuesday Annie Guthrie's car was towed and is in evidence. And then tonight, lest there be any confusion on what car was towed, another car was towed. Nancy Guthrie's car was towed out of her garage at the crime scene at Nancy Guthrie's home. So the reference to a car already having been towed, Nancy's. No, that happened tonight. That would have been Annie's car. At least that's the way I see it. When he says, as for the car being towed, that would have been Annie's car being processed as per a warrant. Right? To get a warrant, you gotta have probable cause. You gotta go before a magistrate usually, or a judge and get you know, get the warrant okayed. Megan Kelly, who you're gonna hear from in a bit. She and her team reached out to get the warrant, and it was sealed, so don't hold your breath. They're not opening that information up. But I would like to know what the probable cause was to tow that car that the sheriff confirmed yesterday had already happened, that I reported on Tuesday of this week, four days ago. So let's see what else. A lot, a lot happened today. Again, Nancy's car has been towed from her garage. A Circle K representative has told the media that authorities have come and asked for video to check it against a vehicle that they are looking for. And the Circle K executive said that they complied and gave the video that law enforcement was looking for. Fox had some really, really interesting video today. They videotaped agents on top of Nancy Guthrie's roof. And you could see these agents kind of like working a camera until they got it off its mount, removing it from, like, the. The gutter area of the. Of the roof line. And News Nation also had, you know, drone video showing agents clamoring up on the roof with a ladder that they had affixed to the backside of Nancy Guthrie's home, where the. The pool area and the garden is. That's also the same area where Fox zeroed in on smashed floodlights that are sort of over the back door area, kind of inside the garage, into the back door area, the back part of the backyard. And so those floodlights look very smashed to me. The brick even looks damaged if you zero in. But those floodlights are, like, hanging off of their wires. So whomever may have been responsible for this may have been the parties that did that to the floodlights. But I was fascinated to see that way up high on the roof line, these agents who were up on the roof were able to actually physically, you know, get a camera off its mount and put it down beside them on. On the roof. And what's important to know here is the sheriff had said Nancy Guthrie did not have a subscription service for her NEST system. And I say Nest because my source called these NEST cameras and said they'd been smashed. And the problem with not having a subscription is you don't have the archival video, but you have the alerts. You know, when the alerts happen. And if you're lucky enough to catch them live, you can see what's going on live, but the minute it's over, you don't get the history. You can't go back and look at the video. So the company that They've been working with to try to get this forensic historical data can only sort of tell them, well, there was an alert at this time and there was an alert at that time. And it's basically motion detected at your back door or motion detected. But the sheriff said there was no way to tell where the motion was detected, which camera. It just said the system detected motion. So the cameras that this Fox News video was able to see today being dismounted, you know, from the gutter area, the top of the roof line. I don't know whether one of those might have been the cameras that alerted, you know, but the sheriff said the cameras, plural, and this is important because my source said that they were smashed and the wording that the sheriff used were smashed. I don't know where he got that. I'm not confirming that we don't have them. They're gone. That was fascinating to me. Clearly, at least one of them that the Fox News cameras caught today, that was not gone. They got it today, days after the processing of the scene. So some other things that happened today, really, really important. Another note, let's talk about this other note that came into Kold. And I don't know, every time I hear something about these notes, I think more and more these are just, you know, the worst of the worst. Scamming parasites somewhere from overseas who know how to work, you know, an encrypted IP address and have their ability to cloak their software and ask for Bitcoin. But this was a weird message today because it wasn't a ransom letter. They're not calling it that. And it wasn't a demand, so to speak. It was strange. And Kold's news director spoke at length about what it was. It was not proof of life. She was clear about that. When Elizabeth Vargas on News Nation asked, did it talk about Nancy Guthrie's condition, the news director of Kold said, I can't go into that. That was interesting. But then the news director spoke about how that new message came in. It was not an email. This is this weird web based customer tip line. You know, like put in your name, address, birth date, what's your comment, ma' am or sir, that's how it came in. Not very sophisticated if you ask me. Certainly not somebody who's planning for a multi million dollar kidnapping, you know, hit job. Doesn't seem like it to me anyway. And I'm not the only one who says that. But yeah, it came in on a web form. And when name, email and birthday were filled out, news director said name wasn't even on it. It was just a, you know, a smattering of words. She wouldn't get more clear than that. Did not give a way to communicate. Once again, this was a communication that was not a communication, so to speak, didn't give away. For the Guthrie family to ask for proof of life, to ask about steps afterwards, like, how do we get our mother back? You know, once again, amateur hour, it seems. And when I say that, I want you to hear from Dan o'.

Dan O'Shea (14:12)

Shea.

Weight Watchers Narrator (14:13)

Dan o' Shea is a former hostage negotiator. He's got a few miles on him in this business, and he may be the smartest voice that I have heard so far in these last five days of this very confusing, complex, mysterious, and tragic saga. Dan o' Shea talks about the kidnap business because it's what he works in for a living, Right? He's the negotiator. He said kidnap for ransom is a business. They're not idiots. They want their money. They do this. They have a protocol. They have a system. They're typically pretty sophisticated. Kidnapped for ransom. They don't typically beat the shit out of their victims and then ask for money without any other communication. They just don't operate in this way. They operate in a way where they can get their money. I want you to hear from Dan o', Shea, because I think he says it far more eloquently than I do.

Interviewer (15:14)

What do you make of these latest developments? That in the first message from these purported kidnappers, they had said, this is our demand. No more communication. Then we have the family coming out twice with videos, pleading for proof of life and a way to communicate. And now we have, it looks like, according to the news director of the station that received two messages, it looks like they're both sent from the same person. They are communicating again. So they've already changed at least one condition.

Dan O'Shea (15:49)

Yeah, but the reality is they have not provided proof of life. And again, as was stated in their previous show on News Nation by one of the, I think, FBI law enforcement personnel, this isn't like any case I've ever seen. And I've been tracking cases now for 20 plus years. You know, my two years in Iraq, 4006, but I've almost got a PhD in this. And I've never come across this case with, you know, the demands sent to TMZ and local news media. They need to go directly to the family. They're asking for millions of dollars on bitcoin, which will be untraceable if that money sent. And this is they're not acting in good faith. And I frankly think this group is going after the news media. They've created this 24. 7 news cycle, and I think this exposure may be part of it. So you have to look at, you know, the motives. Why would you go after, you know, Savannah Guthrie is a very high profile figure, but, you know, she's not controversial. Why would they go after her mother who's got a health condition? She's 84. But my bigger concern is the fact that they use violence at the scene.

Interviewer (16:52)

Yes. Because we know that Nancy's blood was found on the front stoop. She was hurt at some point while she was abducted.

Dan O'Shea (16:59)

Right. So from the get go, the family cannot trust that what they're doing with an honest broker from day one. Kidnapping is a business. Kidnapped for ransom is a business. And people need to play by the rules. This. This group or this individual is. Is not playing by the rules. Therefore, the family and the others will be hesitant to move forward because there are no good faith negotiations in this case.

Interviewer (17:21)

Yeah, listen, the Guthrie family has a very, very difficult decision, an excruciating decision to make in the next hours and days. Do they pay this ransom without proof of life because the second message does not contain proof of life, or do they risk something happening to their mother and having to live with the fact that they gave up perhaps the chance to save her? If you were advising this family, because we know the FBI is working closely with the Guthrie's, what would you tell them? What do you think the FBI is advising them?

Dan O'Shea (18:01)

Well, you never pay for. You never pay without proof of life. Bottom line. Especially not millions of dollars. The fact that they showed violence on the get go, they have a propensity of violence. There's no guarantee, you know, you could. I'm just saying it's a very tough decision. I can't imagine what the Guthrus are going through at this stage. But you cannot pay something without a proof of life. And this is. This clock is ticking. Monday's going to be here very soon. But they have to stay strong because, you know, and there is no. There's no guarantee that this. These email messages are even coming from people who have her. And if they do, there's no guarantee that, you know, that they're going to make a deal to bring home her mother safely. So.

Weight Watchers Narrator (18:50)

So take that for what you will. I think a lot of people are weighing in on their feelings about this whole ransom story being ancillary to the actual crime itself. These are just parasites trying to benefit off of this horrible circumstance, this horrible crime that's been committed against the Guthrie family. Maybe we should expect more of this in the future. In the AI World that we're living in right now, the ability for scammers overseas to take Americans at will, and they have no compunction wiping out senior citizens of everything they have. They have absolutely no compunction to do so. So why should they care? Otherwise, this may be part of our new normal. So as we process the feelings about the kidnap and the ransom notes and whether they're just red herrings, ruses, whatever, they are, ancillary problems. One is already being prosecuted in California, right? One guy's already been arrested for inserting himself allegedly into this and demanding, you know, ransom money. We'll see how that plays out. I don't. I don't hold out a lot of hope for a jury liking this guy, if he ever gets to a jury. Today, more unusual behavior out in front of Nancy Guthrie's house. We've been to this rodeo a few times now, right? Monday, the crime scene is released after What, I think 30 ish hours. May a culpa's already been given by the sheriff. He said, look, Monday morning, quarterback me. I'll take the heat. Maybe we shouldn't have done that. Maybe we should have brought in the feds earlier, Give the guy grace. This is a lot. This is a lot for the sheriff. This is a lot for this department. This is a lot for this community. They don't see a lot of high crime. And the world stage just descended upon him in real time. But he's. But he was gracious enough to say, I'll take the heat for that. And then suddenly, crime tape went up again midweek, but only for two hours. Brian Enten watched the whole thing. He was right there reporting it live on News Nation. Then the crime scene tape went down again, and then again today. All the media, and Brian says there's like 300 media out in front down that road, all trained on Nancy Guthrie's home and whatever activity might be there. Suddenly the agents are pushing them all the way. Off you go. Everybody down the road. We are clearing this road. They shut down an entire spate of road out in front of Nancy Guthrie's home and moved all the press down the way. Right. All of that happened right at the same time, Roughly. That news of the ransom message, rather, I should call it a new message adjacent to the ransom notes that came out before, all coming at the same time. So lots of analysts are speculating maybe there's something in the note. And the agents are coming in and they brought in, you know, an FBI response unit big vehicle pulling into the front of Nancy Guthrie's home. And people, you know, agents are going in and out of the house at this point. So it's a very busy, busy moment in the day. At the same time, there was an older couple that looked like they might have been neighbors dressed in civvies, right? A woman and a man. And they are in the back area, I'll say yard, but the rough, like the rough behind Nancy's beautiful manicured backyard and pool area there was kind of among the cacti and the, and the rough terrain. And they're standing with about three different agents, maybe four. But you can see them kind of pointing things out, these civilians, maybe neighbors with these agents who are in uniform looking in the back area. And there's been a lot of this, right? Like there's been sporadic looking. There's been helicopters flying above in the last several days. And I keep coming back to Monday, not even 30ish hours after the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie. They called off the search. Called it off. No need to search here, folks. Nothing to see here. And we won't be reigniting the search unless, you know, things warrant. Well, we've had a few searches since. Yeah, but why did they call off the search so quickly on Monday? I still go back to that and I'm wondering what did you know? Because an 84 year old woman is missing, how could you not be searching everywhere for days? Typically when someone goes missing, searches go on for, for days and eventually they start pulling back and it's very, very disheartening for the family. But this was like, nope, it's over. No searches permanently. He said that's an odd thing to sort of think back on. And then here's. I will come back to this again. I've harped on it already and I will harp on it again because tonight Nancy Guthrie's car was towed. On Tuesday, my source told me Annie Guthrie's car was towed and it was put into evidence. And yesterday, Thursday, February 5th, the sheriff in his news conference said the car being towed, that's standard as per warrant and it's being processed. I don't think that's so standard. You know, I don't think that's so standard. And not many people picked up on that. But I had a pretty fulsome conversation with Megyn Kelly about this. Megan is no flies on Megyn Kelly. She's a lawyer, she does crime reporting. Smart as attack. She is sharp, right? She's smart as a whip. Smart as attack. And so I had this very significant conversation about things that were said and things that were not said in that news conference and where this might be going. Have a look.

Ashley Banfield (24:31)

Okay, so let's get to your reporting because it was very clearly the gorilla in the room yesterday at that presser where it came up three different times. Four, actually, four total. With the sheriff saying we have no suspects, no persons of interest, and then some broadsides quite clearly, I thought at you. I think you agreed. I watched your show this morning without naming you, and some of the media are piling on. Oh, these influencers looking for clicks are reporting, you know, irresponsibly. That's bullshit. You are not an influencer looking for clicks. I've known you 20 years. That's not who you are. So people are dismissing this at their own peril. It is everyone there. Even the sheriff said no one's been cleared. Everyone's a suspect. So it is not inappropriate to start where all law enforcement starts, which is with the family, and work out that's what you're doing. You would be doing that even if your law enforcement source had not said that the brother in law may be the prime suspect. It's not inappropriate to ask questions about the family. It's actually imperative. So here's what the sheriff said. Let's listen to SOT19B.

Sheriff (25:43)

Nobody's eliminated, but we just really don't have enough to say, this is our suspect. This is our guy we know. Or our gal. We just don't know that. And it's really kind of reckless to report that someone is a suspect when they could very well be a victim. It just I bring to you, to the media, I plead with you to be careful of what it is we put out there because we don't have anybody here listed as a suspect. And you could actually be doing some damage to the case. But you can do some damage to that individual, too. Social media is kind of an ugly world sometimes times.

Ashley Banfield (26:32)

H. Okay, so, Ashley, are you standing by your exclusive reporting broken two days ago now that three things.

Weight Watchers Narrator (26:43)

Yeah, real early on.

Ashley Banfield (26:44)

Okay, who's an impeccable source told you that Tomaso Cioni, who is married to Annie Guthrie, Savannah's sister, may be the prime suspect in this case? That at this time. At this time. And that the car that was towed and impounded was Annie Guthrie's car.

Weight Watchers Narrator (27:02)

Yeah. The word that was used was towed and taken into evidence. I noticed that that was actually Confirmed yesterday, car was towed and is being processed as per warrant. That was said by the sheriff, Sort of.

Ashley Banfield (27:13)

He. He didn't say it was Annie's. And the car. Yeah, he said it. Ashley raised me a bunch of questions.

Weight Watchers Narrator (27:18)

The car.

Ashley Banfield (27:19)

And he made it sound like it was at the crime scene, which is odd. I don't know that Annie Guthrie's car was at the mother's house at any point. You know, actually, here we have it. Sat 16. Let's. Let's listen to how he described it.

Sheriff (27:34)

The car. The car that was at the home. It's just standard investigative practices. It's part of the search warrant scene. Court orders we pull it out of there and do our scene processing with the vehicle.

Ashley Banfield (27:51)

Part of the search warrant.

Weight Watchers Narrator (27:53)

Well, and at the home.

Ashley Banfield (27:54)

That would speak to it being at Nancy's.

Weight Watchers Narrator (27:56)

It just said at the home. And they've been at two homes. Law enforcement has been at two homes. And my source said definitively car was towed and is in evidence. That's three days ago.

Ashley Banfield (28:10)

And that it was Annie's. That it was.

Weight Watchers Narrator (28:12)

That's instead of Annie's car. Did not say the car. Said Annie's car. The sister's car was towed and is in evidence. And he only would say the car.

Ashley Banfield (28:20)

Did not deny it.

Weight Watchers Narrator (28:20)

He didn't deny it. He didn't deny a lot of stuff. Yesterday. He took pot shots. And I get it, okay?

Ashley Banfield (28:24)

But let's get to the big. Let's get to the big headline about Tomas and what your source. Because I. I heard your show. Have you been checking in with your source on that piece of your report?

Weight Watchers Narrator (28:32)

Multiple times per day. And yesterday I was told by the same source, still on target. And then he said, let me put it to you this way. If they're taking shots at you, you're standing on the target. That was his word.

Ashley Banfield (28:47)

So no. No wiggling, no backing down.

Weight Watchers Narrator (28:50)

No backing down. No. No change.

Ashley Banfield (28:52)

And let me ask you this. Is he. Even though he's a. I'm just saying he. I don't know whether it's he or she. But is this person, you say a top law enforcement source, but is this person in a position to know about what's actually happening in this case?

Weight Watchers Narrator (29:05)

Yes. And then after the break, I was informed on day two that the sheriff's department tightened up like a noose, angry about leaks. And so if my information wasn't accurate, why would anybody be worried about leaks?

Ashley Banfield (29:24)

Who would care? Ashley Ban.

Weight Watchers Narrator (29:26)

Right. It must be just some influencer. So that also strengthened this information. I didn't need the strengthening. Thank you. Given the level of this source of mine, and by the way, I got asked it yesterday, Megan, by somebody in the mainstream media. Well, you're not working for a main network now. So have your standards dropped? Right. Well, I've been at it 38 years. I don't think I'd throw my entire four decades away for one story. You know, I, I get it. People have to have their own headlines too. But I did find that pretty offensive. No, no, my. My standards.

Ashley Banfield (30:02)

I've noticed something else. Some people who consider themselves close to Savannah, I've observed, have been particularly dismissive of this report. And I don't know if that's out of loyalty to her, like she wouldn't like this, or whether they've actually been in touch with her and she doesn't like this. Either way, with all due respect to Savannah and the family, it's fair reporting and you can't, you certainly could not go by what Savannah wants you to report in covering this case. Of course she'd be inclined to defend her family, even her in law family members, and that, there's no question, you wouldn't depend upon one of the victims of the crime to guide your investigation as a reporter of the crime. So I've just noticed there's a strain of people who I know consider themselves friends of hers who have been particularly disdainful and are trying to move the coverage elsewhere, and that just can't happen.

Weight Watchers Narrator (30:55)

Well, that would be. That would be a hit.

Ashley Banfield (30:56)

That's not how this game works.

Weight Watchers Narrator (30:58)

Of what I do. Would I change the way I work because of who I'm covering? No, unfortunately. And it's been very difficult. We've had to cover. I remember one of the first stories that I covered in 1988 was someone I knew was nicked by the feds for cross border drug dealing and I had to put it on the news. That was one of my very first stories as a cub reporter. And it was like, well, baptism by fire. Here we go. And so out it went, exactly as the police had reported it to us at CJBN in Kenora, Ontario. But yeah, that, that would be a questionable move in, in, you know, journalistic scruples if I decided to couch the reporting because of who I'm reporting on. And it's hard. It is hard. All right, so there you have it. Look, things just keep developing late into the night. So I do these podcasts very late at night so that I can get the whole day summarized into one thing. As many things as I can pack in that happen in this particular story. But but I I hang on President Trump's words and he said, you know, I'm talking about a solution. We have some things I think that maybe will come out reasonably soon. FBI DOJ could be definitive. Watch this space. Thank you everyone for listening. Thank you for watching. And remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.

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