← Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Breaking: Masked Prowler Caught on Video BEFORE Nancy Guthrie Vanished?
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- [00:00]
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- [01:59]
Ashley Banfield
Watch it foreign. Hey everybody, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is drop dead serious. And we are in day 23 of the Nancy Guthrie investigation and bombshell. You know, a lot of you have looked at videos and have speculated that the pictures that the FBI released to us God two weeks ago showing the perpetrator at the front doorbell cam, one of them doesn't look like the others, one of them not wearing a backpack, not wearing the gun. And we all wondered, is it possible it might be from another date? Well, tonight, law enforcement sources confirming, yes, that it is in fact from another date. The backpack missing, the gun missing, that image, that single image is from a date prior to the date of the suspected abduction of Nancy Guthrie. It is massive news in this investigation. It's also massive to the investigators. And I am curious about how long they have known that. And I will tell you this. The way this news rolled out, you may have seen some of it, bits of it. I want you to know how it all rolled out. Okay. Michael Ruiz from Fox Digital breaking. A source with knowledge of the investigation just confirmed to me, meaning Michael Ruiz, that these two images were taken on different days and may show the same person. The image with no backpack was taken before the suspected abduction of Nancy Guthrie. Source declines to pinpoint the date, citing the open investigation. That's very important because was it the night before, a few days before, weeks, months before? Was it maybe just a few hours before? Because the date changed within a couple hours. Right. Of 1:47am I'm going to get into that really in depth with a former U.S. marshal who tracks bad guys for a living, or you used to track bad guys for a living for the U.S. marshals, now does it for his security company. And I will continue with Michael Ruiz's actual reporting here. Authorities have alternately asked for neighbors to check their home security systems for the entire month of January from the night of January 11th. We all wondered why that date. Is it possible this is the date of this other image? Certainly is interesting that January 11th seemed to come out of the blue. And now we're finding this other image came before the abduction date. And the hours surrounding Guthrie's disappearance between Jan. 31 and Feb. 1. That's the dates that sheriff's office said they wanted video from all the neighbors. Michael Ruiz continues. This indicates that whatever data the FBI and Google accessed to recover the missing video included more than just the final event in her camera's memory. All right, so now Brian Enten from News Nation continued the reporting saying this. These two photos of the Nancy Guthrie suspect were taken on different days. So sources confirmed to me. Brian Enten and Libby Dean, she is a Washington correspondent who's been breaking a lot of news on this story in Washington and she has cited in the past that FBI sources have indicated information to her before. She's not saying that on this story. And Brian continues saying indicating the suspect appears to have visited Guthrie's house before the kidnapping. Now, hold on to your socks because you know, the boomerang effect. Hit us again with the sheriff tonight because Matt Finn from Fox news channel spoke with the sheriff. And let me tell you what the sheriff said. Matt Finn says new pima county sheriff's department says reports that the Guthrie nest camera shows the same person on different days is, quote, purely speculative. Let me continue. From Matt Finn, Quote, this is what the sheriff says. Quote, we are aware that doorbell images released earlier in the investigation depict a suspect in different stages of attire, including with and without a backpack. There is no date or time stamp associated with these images. Therefore, any suggestion that the photographs were taken on different days is purely speculative. Sheriff continues. This remains an active and ongoing criminal investigation. As with any investigation, conclusions will be guided by verifiable evidence and established facts. Speculation without factual support does not advance the investigative process. End quote. From the sheriff, according to Matt Finn on Fox News. Let me just tell you the list of outlets I've been making a quick list and I'm sure it's longer since I started this podcast. The different outlets that are confirming this report from their law enforcement sources, cnn, abc. You already had fox. You already had fox digital news nation with Brian enten and Libby Dean. Drop dead serious. That's me, because I had my own source confirming all of that. CBS and at least one of the local stations. And again, this broke fairly late tonight and it is Monday, February 23rd. So yet again there is reporting that the sheriff is dismissing. It is entirely possible, and I have said this before, that there are things that the FBI knows that they have not shared with the sheriff. I said that when the sheriff said to a Fox news reporter, that's not true. When the Fox News reporter asked him to comment about the FBI agents going around to local gun shops showing photos and names to the proprietors, asking if they'd seen these people or if they'd purchased a gun. And the sheriff said, that's not true. But we'd already seen the interviews with the people who were running or working in the gun shops saying it had happened to them. So it was true. It's possible. Maybe the sheriff did not know at the time that that was happening with the FBI. It is entirely true that Savannah Guthrie and her siblings recorded the very first Instagram message to the alleged, you know, ransom seekers and released it and that the sheriff did not know that had happened. By his own admission, he learned from his wife about that video. So the obviously, the FBI had not shared that with the sheriff either. So is it possible that this news, this information, the sheriff didn't know about it and is saying it's purely speculative? Maybe it's because he doesn't know. Maybe it's because the FBI hasn't shared. And. And let's not forget, there's been this tit for tat going back and forth that the sheriff has hid things from the FBI, and maybe the FBI has been hiding things from the sheriff. I don't know. So I will say this as well, that Matt Finn also concluded his report saying the FBI originally described the recovered images from the Guthrie nest camera as, quote, the morning of her disappearance, end quote. And they refer to one individual. That's interesting as well. When we got these reports, the FBI had said, these images from the morning, Is it possible they accidentally included that extra still shot, the one where he doesn't have the backpack or the gun? And it is not lost on me that so many people watching this case, sleuthers, true crime fanatics, people who are just invested, care about Nancy Guthrie, care about, you know, how the investigation's going, care about her being found. Many of you noted he looks like he's wearing different shoes in the picture without the backpack, without the gun. It looks like his shoes are white with black marks on the inside. At least on the inside, maybe even the outside. And in the other video where he does have the backpack and the gun, it doesn't appear that those same black designs are on the shoes. And maybe that is true. Maybe they are different shoes from a different night. Everything else appears to be the same. Jacket looks the same. Pants look the same. Balaclava looks the same. We don't have the color, but contrast looks the same. But this is just massive reporting, you know, just massive. And might it lend itself to this mystery of why was the sheriff asking neighbors to look at their doorbell videos or their security videos, specifically January 11th? We had heard that early just a couple weeks ago, but then it changed. And the sheriff said, no, no wider window, not just January 11th. We want January 1st to February 1st. But, you know, one of the neighbors had circulated it on the. The nest camp or on the. On the neighborhood app that authorities had been asking for January 11th. And now I wonder, is it possible that this casing, alleged casing, reported casing, is January 11th. Maybe that answers that mystery. I do not know. Certainly the sheriff ain't helping in all of this. And we were told, God, I don't even know. Every day we've been told, don't expect a news conference. But then I think it was Friday. We were told you're not going to get a news conference into the weekend. Then I think Saturday, probably not all week either. That my words. But effectively that messaging, maybe that'll change or maybe we'll get a statement that will eventually clear this up. And one other thing that true crime fanatics and sleuthers and again, people who just are heavily invested and care a lot about this case. One other thing that you all noticed and many of you tweeted it, talked about it on Instagram, shared it in podcast comments as well. Yes, I read them. You said, wait a minute, the light behind, like the sky behind the guy without the backpack and without the gun looks different. It looks like a different time of night than the guy with the backpack and the gun. Somebody else had commented the very next day, right? The very next day that they had, they'd put out, the FBI had put out that video, those videos and the still pictures. And there was another Twitter handle that said there were different moons, moons came up at different times all the way, you know, through February. And this looks to be a different date, different time, different light, maybe a different moon. So you noticed, you asked the question. And as it turns out, our sources, cnn, abc, Fox News Nation, drop dead serious. Hello, cbs. I said already some of the locals, everybody getting confirmation from their law enforcement sources that was indeed the case, that it is a different night and that it is a night before the abduction night. Nobody knows what night or what time, whatever it is. It's big reporting. And many folks who are in the business of reporting on true crime or have worked in true crime or have worked in law enforcement have said the same thing. Game changer changes the investigation. It can change it in myriad ways, right. It gives you a different window to be looking at. Maybe they're asking for January 11th. It also could change the offender profiling. So much of this case that we don't know about has been, you know, maybe the FBI behavioral unit trying to figure out motive of this person, put themselves in this person's shoes to figure out what they might have done, where they might have gone, why they might have done this, hopefully in an effort to track this offender. But if he's casing, turns out there's so much more that they could be looking at, so many more pieces to the puzzle that might actually help solve this investigation. And so I turned to somebody that I've been turning to a lot lately. Spencer Corson is a former Special Deputy U.S. marshal. Track bad guys for A living for years and years. He's a threat management expert, he runs course and security group and he's the author of the Security Trap. And so I gave him a call and I said, guess what? Brand new news dropped. And this was our conversation. So, Spencer, what do you make of this reporting? And again, multiple sources, multiple media outlets, myself included, have confirmation on this reporting that these images are from two different nights.
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Spencer Corson
If that's true, that is not insignificant in any missing person case. The timeline is the backbone of the investigation. So if investigators were working off the assumption that the video was from one night when really it was two, that really changes the timeline of this investigation. And it is the timeline that drives this investigation forward. Why is this so important?
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KFC Narrator
Because.
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Spencer Corson
Because if their assumptions were being informed in one way when they were actually another, that is not just going to change how they go about doing the investigation, but critically, it's going to inform the questions they ask when they are trying to rule out a suspect's alibi.
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Ashley Banfield
Well, the other question I have is does it change the psychology of, you know, predicting who this offender is and why they did it and what they did and where they went?
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Spencer Corson
Yes, because violence always announces itself and it announces and it announces itself through predatory behavior. Predatory behavior such as research and planning. Predatory behavior such as probing defenses. Probing behavior such as coming back and checking the scene to make sure that the conditions are ideal for your attack. So if this person was at this location at least one time before, it is very likely that they were there times before that.
- [16:09]
Ashley Banfield
You think? So that this would not have been the only time that this person cased the place. If in fact that's what we're seeing.
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Spencer Corson
Correct. And I think that it could also mean regardless of circumstance or scenario, the single most influential factor of target selection is likelihood of success. So it's very likely that this individual was targeting multiple hounds and saw that Nancy's offered the highest likelihood of success. So I think investigators want to be very clear. I'm not saying that this was malice or that this was malpractice or that this was a cover up, but if assumptions were made that this was one person on one night and in reality it was one person across many nights, they need to go back to the very beginning and revisit the how they went about this investigation with those incorrect facts.
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Ashley Banfield
Well, one of the sort of mysteries that us journalists have been trying to figure out was the original information, I think that went out on a neighborhood app from one of the neighbors saying, you know, the authorities are asking for January 11th. And then suddenly that went away and the sheriff said, no, no, we've got a very, very wide window. We're looking for video from January 1 to February 1. That's very different. But where did this January 11 come from? Does that maybe inform something about January 11 now that we know that there may have been stalking?
- [17:34]
Spencer Corson
I don't know about the date, but I do know that very earlier in this investigation that there was notices made of a prowler in the neighborhood. And it's very likely that if this individual was doing research and planning on multiple homes, that it may have been this individual in question.
- [17:53]
Ashley Banfield
But, Spencer, I cannot even imagine for a moment that if this same person dressed the same way with the same balaclava was at any other homes. I can't imagine there are all these other homes with doorbell cams that don't have subscriptions. Somebody would have that.
- [18:10]
Spencer Corson
You would hope so, but I can't tell. I mean, I've done thousands of security audits across the world, and the number of cameras which are present but not connected is frightening.
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Ashley Banfield
Really?
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Spencer Corson
Yes.
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Ashley Banfield
Like how many?
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Spencer Corson
More than 50%.
- [18:27]
Ashley Banfield
Oh, dear. Well, I'll bet after this story that changes.
- [18:30]
Spencer Corson
You would hope so.
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Ashley Banfield
So talk to me a little bit about the notion that, listen, that the. The Internet for, for better or for worse, filled with people who are helping to sleuth. Some of them help to crowdsource, others cause problems. But many have pointed out that the shoes look different. In one picture where he doesn't have the backpack nor the gun, his shoes look like they have black patterns on them. And in the other videos and still photographs with the backpack and the gun, you don't seem to see the black patterns that may now make sense.
- [19:06]
Spencer Corson
I think it's also very important to understand that when you are seeing an image that is generated through infrared, it is completely different than seeing something that is. Is lit with natural light or artificial light. So how something reflects with. With real light or artificial light is very consistent. How something or a pattern reflects under IR or infrared is very different. And so that could be the cause for some of those discrepancies.
- [19:37]
Ashley Banfield
So, you know, they've talked a lot about the. The technology that Google used with the FBI as scratching. And the best way it's been described as scratching each, you know, layer off the onion to get to this reserve video that was in the database. But if this is found to be another night, does that mean it's scratched deeper? Does it mean it's scratched differently? What does it actually mean that they were able to maybe find something from. Again, if it's true, and it seems to be multiple sources saying it is, what does the scratching tell you if they were able to find another date?
- [20:12]
Spencer Corson
So the way that I understand scratching to work, and again, I'm a threat management expert, not a cybersecurity expert, but my general understanding of how that works is it's very similar to if you delete a file from your desktop and put it into the trash can, that's one layer. If you then delete it from the trash can, it goes to another layer and then that will actually go into another file which, where it will stay for like another 30 days before it gets like permanently deleted. And that scratching is removing one layer. Is it here? No. Moving one layer? No. Is it here? No. Moving one more layer. And it's there. But once you find that, the metadata of that information is still consistent. So that metadata should inform the investigators as to the exact time and date that that image was captured.
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Ashley Banfield
Well, and they're not telling us that, you know, that the Fox report said that due to the, you know, open investigation, they weren't going to cite that information, but they were prepared to cite the other information. My source simply confirmed it, didn't know further details, but just confirmed the existing reporting that it is a different date. What about the notion that, and this is, I'm going to give credit to you for this, that the a different date could just be a few hours earlier?
- [21:25]
Spencer Corson
Well, I think that's. And you and I have discussed this many times before. Language matters. And so it was from two different nights. Okay, what was that? 11pm on Saturday, but 2am on Sunday, that's two different nights. The metadata would say two different days, but it's still the same sequence or it's the same operational framework that we're dealing with.
- [21:48]
Ashley Banfield
Does it change the strategies of the investigators who are tracking. Nancy, You're a former U.S. marshal. This is your world. The psychology of the possibility that there was someone there casing maybe the night before or maybe another entire day prior to the Saturday or the Sunday. Does it change the strategy? Does it change the protocols on how you're searching, who you're searching for and where you're searching?
- [22:21]
Spencer Corson
Absolutely. It would typically go to four categories, right? Like need, greed, profit, or revenge. Those are the four reasons that people would target someone like Nancy. And understanding the understanding that motivation, what this person was doing. Was this person targeting multiple homes because it was drug seeking behavior? Was this person targeting multiple homes because they needed a car to Escape. Was this person targeting multiple. We don't know. But getting into the insight and getting into the, you know, that criminal mind of this bad actor will absolutely, or at least it should lead to a framework that will help to solve this case.
- [23:03]
Ashley Banfield
I would imagine that that's the kind of information the behavioral analysis unit of the FBI would already know. As soon as the, as soon as the scratchers found it, they would know and that they'd been working models and ever since.
- [23:19]
Spencer Corson
Yes, absolutely. One of the first things, no matter how unlikely it would be, would that would need to be ruled out is did this person also target other homes in the area?
- [23:29]
Ashley Banfield
Wouldn't we know this by now? I mean, wouldn't we know something? Wouldn't the investigation have leapt way ahead if someone else had this happen and, and saw it on their video?
- [23:40]
Spencer Corson
Well, this is the double edged sword of this being such a national, a nationally recognized case. Right. Let's say that someone did notice something, but now it's three weeks later and they don't want to come forward and be the, be the person who's oh, you had this three weeks ago. Why didn't you bring it forward? And now they're put in the spotlight and the shame and the guilt and the frustration that comes with that, of course it could, that tip could be. So if you are that person in this circumstance and you have that information, please come forward. They will keep that information anonymous. Your name never needs to be known. And it's always better to do the right thing later than the wrong thing. Always.
- [24:20]
Ashley Banfield
And there is no shame. It's a lot to ask of people. Look at 30 days, 24 hours each and tell us what you see on your nest and ring and doorbell cams. I mean it is a massive undertaking to ask a civilian to do that. And they may not know what they're looking for.
- [24:37]
Spencer Corson
Also, I think it's important to understand that sometimes our willingness to help another is the first step to saving ourselves. Because all of us, if we were in this situation would want that person who might be hesitant to come out to come out now.
- [24:54]
Ashley Banfield
I mean, that's what Savannah had said to whoever the captor was. You know, it's never too late. There was one other thing that sleuthers noticed. It was hard to give credibility to it only because I'm not an expert in aperture, but many had said the sky looked a different color. It looked like a different time of night in one still picture than it did in the other pictures. And now it might actually make sense. Maybe it Wasn't an aperture issue. Maybe it really was that the sky was a different color or what it
- [25:32]
Spencer Corson
looked to me was. So fixed cameras don't move. Right. A ring camera is a ring camera. Like it's going to always see the same aperture as you're saying. But in the one photo where he has the backpack and we see the gun, the alcove is much closer in the frame. In the frame where we see that he doesn't have the gun or the backpack, the alcove is farther away. So I was almost wondering, was this another ring camera at another part of the house?
- [26:01]
Ashley Banfield
It looks identical. The foliage looks identical. And there is no other alcove like that that we've been able to see from the. The drone shots that have gone around the house. So I don't think these cameras zoom either. I think they're pretty fixed.
- [26:18]
Spencer Corson
Also, it's very possible that that framing that we're seeing was after it was already tampered with.
- [26:25]
Ashley Banfield
Sorry, back that up. You're saying that the framing that we're seeing on the one without the backpacks.
- [26:30]
Spencer Corson
Right. If the. If the photo of him without the backpack is dated before the time that we see him tampering with the camera, that could explain the difference in the aperture.
- [26:41]
Ashley Banfield
Both of them are on approach, though. You know, you see. You see the bad guy on approach in both of these. Right. One is video and then a few stills of the same picture with the backpack. The other is only one simple. Still, I don't know if it's on approach. I can only say that it's outside.
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Spencer Corson
Right. In that snippet. He's on approach, but we don't know the duration between arrival and departure. So taking things out of context can really misinterpret what was actually happening in that moment.
- [27:10]
Ashley Banfield
What else would that kind of information do to the investigators, truly, who are just focused on the crime scene itself? I mean, if there's somebody doing that kind of casing, not just doing it in the front, it would mean that there could be all sorts of. Of evidence around that home that hadn't been considered before.
- [27:29]
Spencer Corson
Well, it also, if we're going to go down the timeline of he has been to that home multiple times before, then he surely would have noticed the cameras before.
- [27:38]
Ashley Banfield
That's another issue.
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Spencer Corson
The whole point of doing the research and planning is that is to give you the most successful opportunity for the. What's called the breach, which is the breaking and entering into the home.
- [27:50]
Ashley Banfield
Well, tell me where this goes then, because now that you mentioned that you know, in the backpack picture, he seems to hew to the left of the door as he approaches for the first time. And to the left of the door is some kind of a design, some item is on, like a decorative item is on the wall. And maybe that's where his attention was taken at first. And then he realized, no, no, no, no, the camera's over on the right. But now this doesn't make sense, does it? Because he'd have been there before.
- [28:19]
Spencer Corson
Or if he had been there before and knew there was a camera, that was the reason for the disguise.
- [28:24]
Ashley Banfield
Well, the disguise is in both pictures. The same mask, it appears, same jacket, same everything, except maybe not the same shoes.
- [28:31]
Spencer Corson
Right, right. So we don't know what he was wearing, but, you know, it's not uncommon to wear the same jeans for a couple days in a row. And if it's cold out, you're going to wear the same jacket. So all you're really changing is the shoes and the face covering.
- [28:44]
Ashley Banfield
The face covering looks the same. Honestly, it looks the same. Listen, it's hard to tell what color because it's night vision, but it does look the same. Contrast.
- [28:53]
Spencer Corson
Yeah. And I, you've mentioned this before, but I'm surprised that the baklava has not been a bigger point of, of search. I'm not, which, I'm not saying that it's not, but we really haven't heard much about that because you're right. You just don't see those in the real world.
- [29:09]
Ashley Banfield
Somebody actually commented and said, well, we use them in Northern Arizona to hunt. Balaclavas are used for hunting. And I thought, okay, how many, you
- [29:21]
Spencer Corson
know, that's not a hunter's baklava. A hunter's baklava is going to be neoprene. It's going to have more of that ski goggle interface so that your glasses or your binos or whatever are not obstructed. That is a old 1980s horror movie. You know, disguise. Baklava, that is maybe intended for the fear factor, but really serves no functional purpose.
- [29:49]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah, I, I, I, I thought to myself that they, anybody who purchases those, you know, is probably up to no good. Is not.
- [30:00]
Spencer Corson
I mean, you also look at that baklava, which is old school and not really functional, and then you look at the holster. That's, you know, not really. So maybe stop looking at gun shops and start going to Goodwill stores.
- [30:11]
Ashley Banfield
It's not a bad idea as well, given the fact that the, the balaclava is available at Walmart in that local area. But not if you walk in. You have to get it by mail order, which is so easily traceable. Right. Every single order of that that was sent to somewhere in, you know, even all of Arizona, let's just say all of Arizona. How many could it really be? It seems like an incredible possibility, right?
- [30:35]
Spencer Corson
It, it really does. I'd be, I'd be looking at, you know, we talk, we've talked before about like bulk purchases. So where are places that you could find those things, pay cash and remain anonymous? I'm thinking Army Navy stores, I'm thinking Goodwill stores. I'm thinking thrift shops, which would have that, you know, randomized items that this person seemed to be using on this at this incident.
- [31:01]
Ashley Banfield
But again, if I'm a cashier anywhere in the Tucson area, you know, this story's happening and you know, you sold a balaclava to someone because it's an odd purchase, it's rare. Not that it doesn't happen again. I don't want anyone commenting saying you don't know us hunters. But it's. I'm a skier. I ski every single weekend, you know, just about. And I ski in 30 below. Right. I used to ski in 40 below up in Canada at Lake Louise. And even then there weren't a lot of three hole balaclavas on the mountain. Even in the 70s when I was skiing, there weren't that many three hole balaclavas.
- [31:43]
Spencer Corson
Yeah, it's almost like 1980s horror movie Prop Department than, you know, outdoor enthusiasts.
- [31:50]
Ashley Banfield
And it also tells you that there's more of a timeline for those purchases. Right. Not the backpack, maybe not the gun holster, but the balaclava, whatever date they may have. And I assume they have the date only because they have the date on the video that they told us about. They have the timestamps on the video that they told us about. I only could assume they have the date and the timestamp on the no backpack, no gun picture. That would give them a better window to ask neighbors for video and also to check purchases.
- [32:22]
Spencer Corson
Yeah, I think the investigation may be getting to that point where they bring in soft eyes. And what soft eyes is when you have someone who's completely unaffected by this case, they don't know anything about it, they're not involved in it, and they just come in and it's very much like a cold case would be done. This case wasn't touched for 20 years. An investigator comes in, he's looking at it with soft eyes. And basically what that could help is not, is get people out of Perception and get them into a new perspective. Let's look at this with clean eyes, without any bias, without any agenda, without any pre presumed assumptions. Let's take the facts where they lead us and see if anything was missed.
- [33:04]
Ashley Banfield
I mean, I keep going back to 24 hours after this case broke open on Sunday. On Monday, the sheriff was announcing to everybody there's no threat out there. There's no threat to the public with the eyes we have now. Hell yes, there's a hell of a threat out there and there remains a hell of a threat out there. So yeah. And how often do soft eyes come in? How often do they have to get them and how often are they effective?
- [33:32]
Spencer Corson
I mean they're very effective when they're needed. That's how cold cases get solved. You have to keep in mind most criminal cases are solved within like 48 hours. So the fact that this has gone on for almost a month now is a real concern. And this is exactly the time when you don't want ego to be a factor in an investigation. This is the time when, listen, there's no bad ideas, there's no wrong ideas or there's no bad leads. Let's take this and do what needs to be done to get this case solved. This cannot be about ego or reputation. This needs to be about solving this crime.
- [34:11]
Ashley Banfield
Let me ask you this, Spencer. They've got upwards of 400 people that have been working this case, right? I don't know how many contractors have come in and out of that neighborhood in the last year. Would they be looking at every single one of them?
- [34:30]
Spencer Corson
Yes, you have a lot of leads at this point. You, at this point, all the pieces matter. I would be going back, I mean going back and recapassing. I'd be going back and re interviewing. I'd be going back and redoing alibis. And again, like we said at the top of this hit, if this was really two different nights and the initial investigation was initiated on the presumption that this was just one night, then every all deals are off. You have to go back to square one and start this investigation from scratch.
- [35:06]
Ashley Banfield
If it's true, where does it go next?
- [35:08]
Spencer Corson
Well, I think we do not expect law enforcement to be perfect, but we do expect them to communicate with clarity. So the worst thing that can happen to this investigation is for the public and the national media and even the family to lose, to lose faith and confidence in those who are in charge of this investigation. So you want to frame and manage those expectations early and often. So if this is Two nights, come out and say so. If it's not two nights, come out and say so. Because what you don't want is other officers or of, you know, there's 400 investigators operating on this case. What do they believe is true? What do the people who have tips believe? It's true. What does the person who thinks, oh, well, I did see this guy, but it was three nights ago, wasn't this night? Because that could really get in the way of someone wanting to come forward. Clarity is like one of the most important components of an investigation, and the department really needs to get in front of this.
- [36:08]
Ashley Banfield
Look, my source said to me, well, I have two different sources on this, and one of my sources said to me that there's a lot of frustration among those who are working this case. There. There's frustration that information that should be out there isn't out there. Now, I know that's not the decision of the rank and file, but there is this frustration among the rank and file that the information is a mess and that the things that should be out aren't out and the things that shouldn't be out, you know, are out. And I think that's a lot of the reason that the sources are actually opening up to the media.
- [36:47]
Spencer Corson
Information is both.
- [36:53]
Ashley Banfield
It's a blessing and a curse.
- [36:55]
Spencer Corson
It's a blessing and a curse. And information is proximity to power. Right. So in an investigation like this, especially one of this size and scope, there's always going to be criticisms, there's always going to be naysayers. There's always going to be like, well, if I was in charge, I would do things different. What we cannot do is have people who do, who are close to this investigation be giving half truths if they really feel that something needs to be put out. There's ways to go about doing that, but kind of. And again, you and I also operate in sources and tips and insights and favorites from friends. That's the nature of this business. But we also, in our world, verify and vet our sources so we know that what we are getting is 100% versus and not to knock like, you know, the true crime advocates of the world, but there's a real difference between someone sharing something who has the training, the background, the education and experience to understand what that information means, and someone who saw a headline on TikTok and puts it out to other 50,000 followers.
- [38:02]
Ashley Banfield
Huge difference. And, you know, I can only say that I look at sources differently. Someone who is in the building and tells me they think something's happening or Someone who's in the investigation or in law enforcement and senior level. Those are very, very different kinds of people. And I also feel that the public has a right to know if they're in danger. Because I go back to the Bryan Kohberger investigation. We were told we weren't. A lot of parents probably left their kids at that school. And in fact, they were. They were in danger for six more weeks. And so it's a difficult, you know, balance. But public safety and reporting, it's what we do. We look for clarity, we look for transparency and we look for safety. And we want to know when we're in risk, when we're in danger, when we're not.
- [38:50]
Spencer Corson
Absolutely. And an informed public is an empowered public. And if you're going to ask the public for your help, you then have to trust them to share the information that they need to help you.
- [39:00]
Ashley Banfield
That's a good point. What do you think is going to happen next with this new development?
- [39:07]
Spencer Corson
Time will tell.
- [39:08]
Ashley Banfield
Spencer Corson, thank you. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it, especially last minute.
- [39:13]
Spencer Corson
My pleasure.
- [39:14]
Ashley Banfield
So there you have it. That's where things stand. Day 23 heading into week four. Week four. I know that is frustrating for a lot of you and I know a lot of you have said, is week four when it goes cold. Brian Entin mentioned today in one of his reports, his sources are saying it's not cold. Right. Nobody wants to say it's. It's gone cold. Things could be shifting. I've got big reporting for you tomorrow in, in my episode about a potential shift in how this investigation is being conducted. And so make sure you subscribe. I love the fact that you all joined me for the Q and A session this weekend. The members thank you so much. It was so great talking to you and your questions were so good. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed it. I think it was really informative and again, I appreciate how knowledgeable you all are and how you want accuracy in reporting. It meant a lot to me and I just really enjoyed having a chance to be with you all. If you want to be involved in the next one, you can join the membership. I do these member events and we do some special, you know, content that's separate from the regular podcast. But don't forget to subscribe if you haven't already. And thank you everybody for being here. Thank you for listening and watching. And remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.
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Spencer Corson
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- [41:12]
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- [41:41]
Ashley Banfield
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