Brutal New Reality in Jail: Surgeon Accused of Double Murder Shipped to Ohio, Monique & Spencer Tepe

Summary

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Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield

Episode: Brutal New Reality in Jail: Surgeon Accused of Double Murder Shipped to Ohio, Monique & Spencer Tepe
Date: January 21, 2026
Host: Ashleigh Banfield
Featured Guest: Larry Levine, Founder of Wall Street Prison Consultants

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Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, Ashleigh Banfield dives into the high-profile double homicide case in Columbus, Ohio, where noted vascular surgeon Dr. Michael McKee stands accused of brutally murdering his ex-wife Monique Tepe and her husband, Spencer Tepe. Banfield explores the chilling details of the crime, the legal complexities, and—most notably—the stark realities awaiting Dr. McKee inside the Franklin County jail.
With expert commentary from prison consultant and ex-inmate Larry Levine, listeners gain rare insight into the psychological and social dynamics of incarceration for someone of McKee’s professional and personal standing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Case Against Dr. Michael McKee

• High-Profile Double Murder: Dr. McKee is charged with four counts of aggravated murder (multiple legal theories), and aggravated burglary, in connection with the killing of his ex-wife and her husband (01:03–03:10).
• Potential Evidence of Premeditation: Police allege the killer used a silencer, implying planning and intent.
  • “A silencer and a drive and secrecy. Those speak very loudly to premeditation.” — Banfield (03:10)
• Victims’ Children at Home During the Crime:
  • The couple’s two young children were in the house during the murders (01:47).
• Extradition Details:
  • McKee was extradited from Illinois (Winnebago County) to Ohio and is now held at the modern James A. Carnes Correctional Center (02:30).

Jail Logistics & Life in a Modern Facility (w/ Larry Levine)

• Old Versus New Jail Experience:
  • The new jail is described as cleaner, more efficient, and secure, akin to moving from a “Motel 6” to a “Best Western” (13:54–15:23).
  • “The old jail smells like piss. It smells like vomit... You get into a new place where everything’s brand new.” — Levine (10:55)
• Security Features:
  • New jails have advanced surveillance, electronic controls, and hardened infrastructure, making escape or violence less likely (12:38).
• Pretrial Detention:
  • McKee, as a pretrial detainee, is housed among others not yet convicted.
• Jail Intake Process:
  • Includes medical checks, psychological evaluations, fingerprinting, and orientation to jail rules (18:52–20:33).
  • “They’re going to give you a cute little inmate handbook. Since this is a new jail, it probably has been [updated].” — Levine (19:45)

Psychological Impact & Social Dynamics

• Shock of the Transition:

  • McKee, a “guy of means,” faces profound culture shock upon entering jail.
  • “He’s never been in custody before. And there’s nothing worse than the unknown.” — Levine (16:36)

• Cellmate Relationships:

  • Likely to share a cell with someone very different from himself.
  • “He’s probably going to be arrogant and think he’s better than everyone else, especially if he’s maintaining his innocence...” — Levine (23:51)

• Adjustment Period:

  • Levine explains inmates don’t sleep the first night and replay their lives mentally; eventually, routine sets in (30:09–31:16):

    “Your first night in there...you don’t sleep and you’re running your whole life through your head. It’s like watching a movie, backwards, forwards.” — Levine (30:09)

• Professional “Currency” in Jail:

  • McKee’s status as a doctor could afford him a measure of respect and utility among inmates, similar to lawyers in jail, as they’re often consulted for advice (25:38–25:43).

    “He may have people coming up to him, showing him, ‘I’ve got this pimple here, I have that’...I think he’ll have a little bit of clout in there.” — Levine (25:43)

• Social Hierarchies:

  • Professionals and well-educated inmates sometimes gravitate toward each other, providing informal support (31:32):

    “You would see like two or three lawyers that were in there...be like a little tribunal almost.” — Levine (31:36)

Jailhouse Informants & Legal Dangers

• Snitch System:

  • Law enforcement often positions informants—sometimes undercover officers, sometimes inmates with incentives—near high-profile suspects (27:24–29:30).

    “The snitches are already there. They’ve got him in all the jails...” — Levine (27:24)
    “Don’t run your mouth like a toilet. You’re your own worst enemy.” — Levine (28:11)

The Broader Legal Picture

• Case Strength:

  • Banfield notes the evidence against Dr. McKee appears damning, mentioning the weapon’s recovery in his apartment and possession of the getaway car:
    • “You put it together with the other stuff they say they have...That’s the vehicle...he was in possession of. Not just owned— in possession.” — Banfield (32:37)

• Anticipation of Arraignment:

  • The Franklin County arraignment process is outlined; it’s unclear if prosecutors will reveal much detail at the first hearing (04:20).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• “This episode is all about a case that is... I’m obsessed with it. The Columbus, Ohio double murder case.” — Banfield [01:08]
• “The shooter used a silencer. According to police... Premeditation, anybody? Hello? Bueller?” — Banfield [03:36]
• “Jail isn’t just a holding place. It is a pressure cooker. It is an entire culture of its own.” — Banfield [04:32]
• “You know what? 15 years of education, he’s a doctor. He’s probably going to be arrogant and think he’s better than everyone else, especially if he’s maintaining his innocence.” — Levine [23:53]
• “He may have people coming up to him showing him, ‘I’ve got this pimple here, I have this, I have that.’...He’ll have a little bit of clout.” — Levine [25:43]
• “Don’t run your mouth like a toilet. You’re your own worst enemy.” — Levine [28:12]
• “Your first night in there...you don’t sleep and you’re running your whole fucking life through your head. It’s like watching a movie, backwards, forwards.” — Levine [30:09]
• “The culture is such a fascinating dynamic. So of course, you’re the first person I thought to call when I heard about the transfer.” — Banfield [32:23]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Case Recap & Allegations — [01:03–04:00]
• Why Four Counts of Murder — [02:45–03:36]
• What Jail Life Awaits McKee? — [04:32–09:00]
• Interview with Larry Levine Begins — [10:18]
• Old vs. New Jail Conditions Explained — [10:18–15:23]
• Transfer and Intake Procedures — [15:23–20:33]
• Cellmate and Prisoner Dynamics — [23:26–26:00]
• Snitch System and Legal Advice in Jail — [27:01–29:30]
• Psychological Adjustment to Incarceration — [30:09–31:36]
• Professional Circles in Jail — [31:32–32:23]
• Evidence Strength & Case Prognosis — [32:34–End]

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Takeaway

This episode provides a rare, candid look inside the multifaceted world of jail life for a high-profile, educated suspect—and underscores just how profoundly incarceration can upend even the most privileged of lives.
Ashleigh Banfield and guest Larry Levine combine real-world experience with sharp analysis to shed light on everything from legal strategy and evidence to the mental and social hurdles awaiting Dr. McKee as this dramatic case moves forward.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hey everyone, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is Drop dead serious. I guess I'm getting my voice back finally. This is a bad one though. I hope you guys are all staying healthy. This episode is all about a case that is. I'm obsessed with it. The Columbus, Ohio double murder case. A dentist and his wife murdered and her ex husband arrested for it. The man prosecutors say crept into this Columbus, Ohio home brutally executed two people in their sleep. Guess what? He was on the move and now he is back in the county where it all happened and he's got a brand new mug shot. This is the newest shot of Dr. Michael McKee, the ex husband of Monique Tepe. He is now being held in Franklin county and the jail is called the James A. Carnes Corrections Center. It's a newer jail and that matters a lot for reasons you are about to hear. I guess he got a little bit of a break on this one. The extradition took him to a place that is much better than where he could have ended up. And I'll go through all of that in just a moment as well as everything that's happening to him right now and all the people he's meeting and what his life is actually like. So by now you all know that Dr. Michael McKee is charged with the murders of his ex wife Monique and her husband Spencer Tepe. This as their two little kids, ages 4 and just 17 months, were in the house. I want to say sleeping, but I highly doubt it because kids wake up with anything. And there were gunshots, several of them. So my assumption is those kids were up and crying and mom and dad couldn't come to them for hours and hours. Dr. McKee was extradited Tuesday morning, January 20th, from Winnebago County. That's where Rockford, Illinois is, where he was arrested and he was brought to Franklin County, Ohio. Ohio. That's where Columbus, Ohio is. He's facing the most serious charges that, that they have, right? Aggravated murder. Not one, not two, not three, but four counts of aggravated murder. He's also facing a count of aggravated burglary, obviously. Right. Because the allegation is you busted into their home and you murdered them upstairs in their bedroom. A lot of people ask, why four counts? I've done other episodes on that. But just a quick recap, different theories. Number one is the premeditated two counts of aggravated murder based on premeditation. And if the jury can't get to premeditation, don't ask. Sometimes they can't. They can get to the other two counts of aggravated murder, which have an underlying felony of burglary. And it's not going to be hard to prove a burglary. So two different ways that a jury can get to the two murders, aggravated murders. Buried inside those charges is a very chilling allegation that we've now learned a little bit more about. The shooter used a silencer. According to police. Dr. Michael McKee was that shooter, they say, and was very careful to use a silencer. Premeditation, anybody? Hello? Bueller? So a silencer and a drive and secrecy. Those speak very loudly to premeditation. But again, sometimes juries do unusual things. Dr. McKee's next stop is arraignment. And that's where the prosecutors are formally going to lay out what they say was a calculated, silenced, execution style double murder. So I can't wait for this. Right. Sometimes you get a mitt full of details in that first appearance. Sometimes they just go and go and go and give you just tons of information. Sometimes they don't. So I don't know about the Franklin county prosecutors and how they want to, you know, prosecute this case, but arraignments are handled by this particular jurisdiction, the Franklin County Common Pleas Court, on Mondays and Wednesdays and Fridays. So here is the question hanging over all of this as we speak. What actually happens to a guy like Dr. Michael McKee, the vascular surgeon from Rockford, Illinois's hospital where he was arrested? Right. That's what the reports are, that he got off shift and they were waiting for him. What happens when the cell door closes? What happens when they bring him in the front door? Because jail isn't just a holding place. It is a pressure cooker. It is an entire culture of its own. And when you're accused of a high profile double murder, you don't just sit there and wait for court. You're watched, you're listened to. Every word of what you say matters in a different way to everybody who's in there, who's in the cell next to you, who's in the bunk above you, below you, or next to you, who is suddenly trying to be your best friend, who wants something from you because you're an educated guy, right? You're a doctor. And how often do investigators quietly plant a jailhouse informant next to the suspect, next to the defendant, to see if he'll talk, if he just starts letting the floodgates open, squealing if he slips up, or if he just starts to try to explain himself? Because history shows us this, Some of the most damaging evidence in major murder cases doesn't always come from the crime scene. Sometimes it comes from the inside of the jail. So what's it really like behind bars? And especially for someone who's accused of crimes that are this serious and someone who is as educated as this guy. Yeah. Takes a while to become a vascular surgeon, you know, anywhere between 12 and 15 years. So what are the unspoken rules? How quickly can he learn them? What are the dangers? How quickly can he learn them? And most importantly, what are the psychological games A, that are going to be played against him and B, that he's going to have to play himself in order to survive? These are all the things that I knew Larry Levine would know. He's the founder of Wall Street Prison Consultants. Larry has served time in 11 different facilities, several of them high security federal facilities. So he knows the ropes. He knows a thing or two about all the different kinds of lockups. Jails, prisons, multi state, you name it. And now he coaches white collar criminals, he coaches celebrities, he coaches high profile defendants on what it takes to survive this, what it takes to get through it, how to navigate incarceration and avoid the kinds of mistakes that can destroy a defense and take your life. He's also the author of Prison Politics 101, Mastering the Art of Survival and Lies. My lawyer told me Prelude to Justice. And he knows exactly what happens when the system starts closing in and the doors open shut behind you. I'm going to have that interview for you in just a moment, and trust me, It's a really good one because the thing I love about Larry is that, well, a, he has a mouth like a trucker, which I adore because it's very, very genuine. But he's also just really honest about his life and his guilt and how he got through all of this and what he learned and how he turned his life around. So for that reason, I always highly respect what Larry has to say. And also, very few people are as articulate and are willing to make this kind of a life when they get out of prison or jail and then tell the rest of us what it's like. And tell those who are going in what they need to know. First, though, huge thank you, as I always say, for being part of my true crime community. And hey, thanks to all the IU fans out there. Go Hoosiers. I also want to thank my sponsors like Just Thrive. Let's talk about something important. Your health and your well being. If your gut is off, everything is off. Your digestion, your energy, your mood, your focus. It all starts in your gut. And when your gut struggles, your whole body feels it. And that's why I trust Just Thrive Probiotic. It turns your gut into an antioxidant factory, which means better digestion, healthy immunity and more energy and even weight management. Thank you. Just Thrive Probiotic comes in capsules or it comes in berry flavored gummies. Also. Thank you. So there's an option for everybody in the family and of course I'm the one who chooses the gummy.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

More than the kids. So it's a little treat and it's good for you and it's going to make you better. So here's my challenge. Try Just thrive probiotic for 90 days risk free. Visit just thrive health.com and save 20% if you use my promo code. Banfield, just pop it in there. 20% off. You're welcome. See the difference for yourself or get a full product refund, no questions asked. Take the 90 day Just Thrive Probiotic Challenge today at Just Thrive Health.com Banfield and be the best you would. Just Thrive. Okay, back to the case. Here's my conversation with Larry Levine. Larry, I can't help but notice in the comments from a lot of the people who watch this podcast that they know the difference between the two jails in Columbus. The James A. Carnes Correction center where Dr. McKee was sent, and the older jail called the Franklin County Corrections center, also known fondly by the inmates as Jackson pike because that's where it's located. On that street Jackson Pike. What do you think the significance of it is that Dr. McKee went to the newer jail?

[C]

Well, it's probably closer to the courthouse. I think the significance is that they're probably transitioning people between jails and they're taking people that are serving longer sentences. In other words, people that have been committed to county jail for whatever crime, they're holding them at the old place, the new place. I mean, they can process you quicker, move you back and forth to court, have better medical facilities. But, I mean, the accommodations actually in an old jail smells like piss. It smells like vomit. The cells are dirty, there's sewage, it's falling apart. You get into a new place where, I mean, everything's brand new. It's a modular kind of thing where they could have one staff member monitoring 50 to 100 inmates. They break them into what's called pods or modules, or they have, like, a little control center in the middle, and you could see all the different cells all the way around. And the old jail had, like, bars like you would see on tv, the old jail bars. Because, remember, the old jail was old. Nowadays they don't have bars now. It's a steel door. It's got a little vertical window in it. It's got a little flap on the bottom they can slide your meals into. Or if they're taking you out, they have you back up to the door, put your hands behind your back, and they reach in and they can put your handcuffs on you. The food service at the new jail is probably more efficient. I wouldn't be surprised eventually if they close the old jail because it's probably not cost effective to run anymore because of the staffing. So, you know, they could have sent him anywhere. But I venture to say it's probably closer to the courthouse, easier for transportation, easier for the lawyers to come and visit him. You know, it sucks to be in jail, Ashley, no matter where you're at.

[B]

Well, and I can imagine every time I think of an old jail, I think of the New Orleans jail where those 10 inmates went blowing out the, you know, the side door and leaping off the loading dock, I assume. Yeah, I mean, I just assume that the newer jails are more secure. Am I wrong in that assumption?

[C]

No, they are. I mean, there's more cameras. They can control it electronically. A lot of these older jails were slapped together as far as whatever they had on hand, whatever was available. The new jails are modern. They were planned with security features where the old ones. Well, let's add this, and let's Add that these new jails, well, prisons and jails, the concrete might go five, six feet down, so there's no way anybody's tumbling out with a spoon or anything. You've got concrete walls with steel on top of them. So they're like super, super secure. And a lot of times they don't even need to send people to the shoe. They could just leave you locked down in your cell. And it's kind of the same thing. And look at all the money they're saving. It all comes down to Ashley. In these jails, it comes down to the money. Do more with less.

[B]

So I'm assuming it's the efficiency and the money, but also the security. But I want to ask you from the prisoner's perspective, because the comments said, oh, he's got it way better. He's going to be in the new jail. Is it a better experience for the inmate? Is it a nicer experience?

[C]

Well, it's highly possible that there's more televisions there in the pods. It's cleaner there. It's easier to get visits from whoever. The telephones might be easier to access if you want to go to sick call. They probably have a really nice medical unit there. I don't want to say it's kickback, but these old jails are like gone to a slum where you go to a newer facility. Picture this, Ash. The old jail is like a Motel 6, where the new jail, maybe you're going to a Best Western or something, or you're going, I don't want to say the Hilton or the Holiday Inn, but you're going to a jail that has more amenities, it's cleaner, and you're going to have a better and easier experience. Probably the bunks also. They probably have better bunks and mattresses in the new jail because the old jail, it's like flushing the toilet. The old jail just gets all the shit because nobody cares. But remember that the new jail, he hasn't been convicted of anything. It's all allegations. There's. I don't know if there's any doubt whether he did this or not, but he is a pretrial detainee or probably the majority of people sitting in that old jail have already been sentenced and they're serving their jail time. They're either waiting to go to the state Department of Corrections or maybe they got a sentence under a year, and they're actually just going to do county time.

[B]

So let's talk about the transfer. I was so surprised it took so long. This is a six Hour drive between the two jurisdictions. Rockford, Illinois, where he was being held before, where he was arrested. I think it's called Winnebago County. And, you know, and Columbus, Ohio. Jackson, not Jackson County. I'm sorry. Yeah, Franklin County. Sorry. And Franklin county in where Columbus, Ohio, is located. So they made the transfer. It took over a week. But what would that have been like for him? I mean, I'm just trying to get in the perspective of Dr. McKee and what's going through his mind as he's marched from one small jurisdiction to one much larger one.

[C]

Well, first of all, they took him out probably at, oh, dark 30. They love to take people out early in the morning. They searched him, they cuffed him up. And all this shit's just running through his head about his crime. What's going to happen to him? They threw him in the back of a car, maybe a van. We will never know. They threw him in the back of something. He's all handcuffed. He's not blindfolded or anything. And every mile that goes by and he gets closer and closer to the new. To the new location. He has all these phobias and thoughts that are going through his head as far as it's like he's rewinding a VHS tape. Like what he did, what he went through, how he got captured, what could potentially happen to him. It's like fear of the unknown. The guy has no idea. The guy. I mean, the guy's like a serial scammer from what I read. But he's never been in custody before. And there's nothing worse than the unknown. And that's kind of what he was like facing. Probably the closer that they got over to the Franklin county jail, maybe his heart rate, blood pressure went up. The anxiety just builds on you. And finally, when he got there and he took a look around, it's kind of like a little bit of decompression because he was in a routine in the old place. Everybody gets a routine. He knows what's going to happen at what time of day. Now he's starting over. I mean, when he was at the old place, did he already have a lawyer?

[B]

Well, I think he was. He was given a public defender to make his appearance, you know, because it was clear it was an extradition issue only, not a defense issue at this point. Well, not a, you know, criminal homicide or aggravated murder defense.

[C]

Lawyer. Now, did he hire a lawyer?

[B]

Good question. Because what I wanted to ask you is, how does that start? Like, this is a guy of means. He's probably not going to have a public defender. He. All the money he has, he doesn't have kids, doesn't have a wife to our knowledge. So he's just got this money to spend on himself. What is the process? You land there, you get your new bunk, you get your new prison garb or jail garb. Then what?

[C]

You go through an orientation. You're going to walk around the housing unit. We don't call it cell block anymore, Especially at a place like this. You're going to walk around the housing unit. I don't see them putting him in protective custody because people kill people all the time. It's not like we're dealing with children that got killed or anything. So he's going to integrate with the inmates, get a lay of the land.

[B]

But let me ask you this. All of these intake procedures, the orientation, how long does all of that take? How long do you get to, you know, sort of be in the honeymoon phase of your new jail?

[C]

Well, you get there, first thing they're going to do is they're going to chain you to a bench. You're going to go into what's called R D receiving and discharge. Eventually you'll be like chained up on it or something. Or maybe they'll put them like in a little holding cell. Then they're going to bring them to a part a location inside the jail where they're going to take his fingerprints. They're all digital now. They're not rolling ink anymore. It's like live scan. They're going to take his prints, they're going to take his picture. They're going to have the shrink come talk to him about his psychological being. You know, are you normal? Are you crazy? Do you want to kill yourself? Then they're going to move you to medical, or you're going to have somebody from medical come to you. They're going to give you the quickest physical ever known to man. Are you taking any medications? Do you have any other medical issues? And then you'll eventually meet somebody from the custody staff who's going to. Or they should. A lot of these places don't do it, but they're going to give you a lowdown on what the jail procedure is and what's expected of you. And they're going to give you a cute little inmate handbook. I was going to say it hasn't been updated forever, but since this is a new jail, it probably has been. And it's going to have the rules and regulations and then figure this whole process, you're not talking about a prison, Ash. You're talking about a jail. Columbus is a pretty big county. Well, Franklin county is a pretty big county. So they could be moving, I don't know, dozens of inmates in and out every day. The whole process could take three or four hours.

[B]

Oh, it's pretty quick. And then off you go to your cell and then just get used to it.

[C]

I would say he probably. Well, it's a jail, okay. He probably got something to eat. I don't know if they take people there to the dining hall or they have them eat inside the housing units, but probably when he hit the housing. Well, all right, so he's all done going through orientation. Then they're going to give him some uniforms. Let's say they're going to give him, I don't know what they wear, their khakis, jumpsuits. They're going to issue him a hygiene kit, little bar of soap, little toothpaste, little tiny toothbrush. And. Okay, so he gets his hygiene kit, he gets his uniforms, and then he's taken back over to the housing unit. If he has a cell to himself, good for him. But he'll probably be meeting his new best friend, who he's going to be with for a while, and they're going to exchange lies and bullshit each other about women. Their case. I'm guilty. No, I didn't do this or that.

[D]

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[C]

Got no bragging rights, doesn't have a criminal history, so he's probably going to try to explain himself why he did this. I was on Con Air, one of those prison flights, the U.S. marshals. I was chained up next to a serial killer for like, I don't know, five hours or something. And I didn't know who he was. And he told me, I go, yeah, I remember who you are. And I asked him, like, well, why did you do this? And he goes, well, they deserved it, and nobody will miss them anyway. And this guy seemed as normal as you or I. I don't know if I'm normal, but the guy seemed normal. So it's kind of really hard to tell. People could go anywhere in any direction.

[B]

So you know what? Let me ask you this. He's about to meet his cellie, right? That's the proper terminology. New best friend. And my guess is that the cellmate is probably not going to have 15 years of university under his belt. This guy is a highly educated vascular surgeon. So that dichotomy of whoever he's gonna meet and whoever he's gonna live with, what's that dynamic gonna be like for him?

[C]

He's probably going to think, I mean, I thought this myself. Some of the places I went to, they're putting me in here with this idiot. What did this guy do? He's, you know what, 15 years of education, he's a doctor. He's probably going to be arrogant and think he's better than everyone else, especially if he's maintaining his innocence. Well, I shouldn't even be here. I didn't do this. It's going to reach a point that the other guy is going to tell him to shut the fuck up. I'm tired of hearing you bitch, moan and complain. I don't want to hear it. And if you don't shut up, I'm going to beat the crap out of you. You know, this stuff happens. People whine and moan, especially in these county jails or even like a federal detention center. So if this guy is that smart, I have no reason to believe he's not. He's probably a master manipulator. He's looking at the lay of the land and he's going to try to figure out how he could get over on the system. You know, he. I don't want to say he's going to be a celebrity. He's not.

[B]

Well, isn't he? Because think about it. This is Columbus. The news has been massive. You said there's probably TVs everywhere.

[C]

Oh, absolutely.

[B]

Would he be known right away? Would they all know this guy's Coming?

[C]

Yeah. They knew before he got there that he was coming. It would be the logical place. They may not have known which jail he was coming, going to. We always knew when people were going to be showing up. After we saw people get sentenced, we had a pretty good idea based on where they were sentenced out of. But remember, he's a doctor. In these jails you get really crappy medical care. Probably better at this one, but you're not, it's not like first class medical care anywhere when you're in custody.

[B]

So there's currency with his medical knowledge. He's got currency with these guys have people.

[C]

When I was at the federal prison in Lompoc, California, I had heart issues and I actually have ended up having a stent put in. I had some cardiologists that were there for billing fraud or Medicare fraud, I don't know, some kind of fraud. And they talked to me about my problems and my issues. They knew more and gave me more advice and better advice than when they took me over to the hospital to put the stent in. And they told me specific things to tell the hospital doctors, look for this, he's experiencing this or that. And I'm telling the doctors, I remembered what they told me and I'm telling the hospital doctors this and they're like asking me, how do you know this? How do you even know to say this to us? I go, well, I had some cardiologists told me, they go, really? Well, who did you talk to? I go, these are inmates. And they were like shocked. The inmates knew more about this issue than they did. So he may have people coming up to him, showing him, I've got this pimple here, I have this, I have that. You know, he's not going to be a celebrity, but I think he'll have a little bit of a cloud in there. Based on like, like a, like a lawyer. Lawyers got clothes, clout.

[B]

Let me ask you this. When someone like Dr. McKee shows up and prosecutors are building their case, what, what, and how does the snitch system work? I mean, how do they get an informant in place if they want someone to start beacon off about their crimes and, and sharing, you know, lots of details that can be used against them.

[C]

The snitches are already there. They've got him in all the jails and all the prisons. Somebody's going to become his friend, take him into their confidence. They'll work him over for a while, maybe give him some commissary. He doesn't have anything. When he first got there, and they're just going to engage in normal conversation. Remember that some of these snitches, they're not even inmates. A lot of these are law enforcement. They plug in there and they're trained in counter psychology and such, so they're just going to ease into different subjects. Well, did you kill her? Well, no, I didn't do this, I didn't do that. But eventually he's going to get comfortable with these people. I've seen it God knows how many times. And I tell people, don't run your mouth like a toilet. That's your. You're your own worst enemy. But he'll get comfortable with someone and he'll start opening up. Now, some of these people are actually inmates, and they know that they can get time knocked off their sentence for cooperation. And then his lawyer is probably going to say, well, that's entrapment. He wasn't, you know, read his rights and such. It was an improper investigation. They're going to be playing a game back and forth, what's real and what's allowed and what's not. But I'm sure there'll be plenty of people cozying up to him over the next, I don't know, couple weeks. And then eventually he's just going to be another person that comes in. I mean, look, when Luigi was popped, that's all you heard. Luigi, Luigi, Luigi. Do you really hear about him anymore? No. Other people are going to come in eventually. He's not going to be the new guy. He's just going to be there. He's going to get his routine down, and he's just going to sit around watching tv, playing chess and bullshitting with everyone else. Then he's going to get comfortable. Once he get comfortable, he gets comfortable, that's about the time he's going to start running his mouth like a toilet.

[B]

Let me ask you about the fall from grace, too. I mean, in your business, you deal with very wealthy people who are panicked that they're about to go into, you know, a prison setting, and they need your help to sort of figure out what's ahead and how they can navigate. A lot of inmates, though, are walking in there like, I've been to this rodeo a bunch of times. Hey, Dave, you know, so a guy like Dr. McKee, that is a hell of a. Well, for lack of a better term, culture shock, you know. So tell me how these guys get through this and how long it takes before, like you said, they get comfortable.

[C]

They say your first night in there, in any jail or Prison, you don't sleep and you're running your whole fucking life through your head. It's like watching a movie, backwards, forwards. I was guilty as fucking sin. I slept like a baby the first night I was there. I integrated very well into the jail, to the prison system. I went to MDCLA to begin with, Federal detention center there. But it took me a while to get myself acclimated, to know who's who, who's a rat. I mean, people will tell you, don't talk to that guy, he's a snitch. Don't talk to that guy, he's a child molester. Because you'll be judged by the people that you interact with. But eventually, I mean, he's going to get a mound of legal paperwork sent to him. He's going to start reviewing it. Maybe there's a lawyer in there. Lawyer too, paralegal in there with him. He's going to try to educate himself on the law. There's probably. Since it's a new jail, there's probably a pretty nice law library. It's probably computerized to a certain degree. He's going to want to understand the charges.

[B]

I have this one last question for you about professionals. A guy like this, like you said, in the can, there's going to be some lawyers, there are going to maybe be some other doctors. Do they all congregate together? Do they end up clubbing up a little bit? The professionals, the higher educated guys, you know?

[C]

Yeah, they sit around and they bullshit. They drink coffee, lie about women, they watch tv, talk about their families. And some of the places I was at, you would see like two or three lawyers that were in there for God knows what, and people would come be like a little tribunal almost, where people would come by and bounce questions off them. But then some educated people, they like to sit around with ignorant people because then they feel special, that they're. I don't want to say smarter than them, better than them. So it could really go in either direction, either way. I mean, other than giving medical advice, what does this guy have to offer? He's got money. Maybe he'll try to help somebody out and have money put on their books. Who knows?

[B]

The culture is such a fascinating dynamic. So, of course, you're the first person I thought to call when I heard about the transfer. Larry Levine, thank you so much for this.

[C]

Sure thing. Anytime. Ash. Be good.

[B]

All right. We're going to keep following this case. I have my finger on the button because it isn't going to be but a minute before Dr. Michael McKee is going to have to face a judge in the jurisdiction where he's likely going to spend a lot of time. I say that because the facts of the case look pretty damning. And it's early, y'. All. We barely know anything and things do not look good. Let me just say this. When police are willing to give a press conference and tell you that they've got the bad guy that they believe committed a double murder and that the weapon was found in his apartment, that is not good. I get it. A defense attorney can make hay of anything. It was placed there. He was framed. All of that. I get it. But you put it together with the other stuff that they say they have, and that's the vehicle traveling there that he was in possession of. Not just owned in possession of. There's a big difference. Sure, someone can steal my car and then place a gun in my apartment and make me look like the killer, but if you're in possession of that car, it's different. They have you on tape. It's different. And, folks, I don't need to tell you, you guys are good at this. Cameras are everywhere. Like I said, I'll keep following. Make sure you're subscribed. Please subscribe. First of all, it does me a huge solid, so thank you if you're already subscribed. And please, please, please do it if you aren't. And also, you don't miss any updates if you're subscribed. So thanks for watching, everybody. Thank you for listening. And remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.