Chilling New Details About How the Perp Got Inside Nancy Guthrie’s Home | Nancy Guthrie Missing

Summary

Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield

Episode: Chilling New Details About How the Perp Got Inside Nancy Guthrie’s Home | Nancy Guthrie Missing
Date: March 31, 2026

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Overview:

In this riveting episode, Ashleigh Banfield dives deep into new, critical details regarding the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie from her home in Tucson, Arizona—58 days into the ongoing investigation. Banfield, drawing on her 36 years of true crime reporting, shares exclusive insights from law enforcement sources, analyzes the evolving crime scene narrative, and hosts a detailed conversation with retired Pima County lieutenant and SWAT commander Bob Krieger. The focus is on how the perpetrator gained entry, the significance of propped open doors and gates using Nancy’s own flower pots, broader law enforcement response, and emerging theories on what happened that night.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Back Door and Entry Details

[00:50–07:30]

• Banfield reveals new, confirmed information from law enforcement: the back doors referenced are actually a single kitchen entry consisting of two doors—a screen door and an inner (heavier) door, both left open.
• Savannah Guthrie’s public statements (“back doors…propped open”) are clarified—the plural "doors" refers to both the screen and main kitchen door at one entrance.
• The less visible kitchen door (perpendicular to the house’s length, left of the patio sofa) is pinpointed as the entry point.
• Notably, both the kitchen screen door and the yard’s back gate were propped open using Nancy’s own flower pots.

“He took her beautiful flower pots… and he used them for his evil fucking plot.” – Ashleigh Banfield [06:07]

Theories on the Perp’s Plan

[07:30–15:45]

• Discussion of why the perpetrator would prop open both the back kitchen door and the back gate; comparisons are made to the Golden State Killer—suggesting a planned rapid escape route.
• Evidence from family: Nancy rarely locked her back doors, making this a known vulnerability.
• Signs of prior stalking: a possible sighting two weeks before the abduction (Jan. 11th) and disabled spotlights.
• The contradiction of having doors propped open at the back but blood found trailing from the front foyer to the driveway, indicating a major deviation from any initial plan.

“Did you know that there was an elderly lady inside all by herself… had you been looking through her windows, making sure you knew how to get through that place in the dark?” – Ashleigh Banfield [08:16]

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Law Enforcement Analysis With Lt. Bob Krieger

[18:07–62:33]

On Propped Doors and Gates: Unusual Tactics

[18:07–19:14]

• Krieger finds the use of propped open doors notable but rare in his experience ("definitely a little bit different than traditional things I’ve seen in burglaries").
• Affirms the likelihood that the suspect intended a quick egress but suggests it could also be part of a plan to walk Nancy out discreetly.

“To see something propped open, kind of like this whole investigation has been, it is definitely a little bit different...” – Bob Krieger [18:52]

The Backyard vs. The Front—Speculation on Movement

[20:52–23:30]

• Krieger believes bringing Nancy out the front would be easier, due to rough desert terrain at the back, but acknowledges all options remain on the table, including possible accomplices.

Theories on Execution—Plan Gone Wrong

[23:30–26:21]

• Banfield and Krieger theorize that the original plan (exiting via the back) likely failed because Nancy, due to mobility issues, couldn’t make the distance—thus, the perpetrator adapted, leading her out the front.

“Probably not according to plan…It was that way. However, they decided to take her out of the house was, was, was that way. You know, how there’s so many different options…” – Bob Krieger [24:14]

On Forensic Collection and Family Aftermath

[32:14–42:33]

• The importance of door handles and flower pots for possible DNA evidence is discussed; these were likely swabbed (“Anywhere a hand is likely to go, that’s where you go.” – Krieger [32:43]).
• Protocol around crime scene release and the challenge faced by families returning to homes with potential remnants of the crime (e.g., blood traces); police may advise, but the burden of cleanup typically falls to the family.

“No family should have to clean up a scene, period. And it’s unfortunate that, you know, law enforcement fire, you know, it’s just not part of what we do.” – Bob Krieger [41:13]

Search & Rescue Efforts—Challenges & Friction

[42:40–50:58]

• Banfield questions the sheriff’s decision to rebuff offers from the Cajun Navy and other search volunteers; Krieger explains possible legal issues but ultimately sees no harm in wider searches, especially given the vast, unforgiving desert terrain.
• Delays and limitations in deploying air resources (airplanes/helicopters) are critiqued, attributed partly to internal sheriff’s department decisions.

“To have that [airplane] shelved for even a couple hours because I’m mad at you, that’s an unfortunate decision.” – Bob Krieger [45:27]

Pursuit, Leads, and the Long Road to Resolution

[51:17–54:54]

• Krieger sets expectations: cases like this may take years—not days or weeks—to solve. A flood of leads may overwhelm investigators, and the “crack in the dam” often comes when criminals’ confidantes or cellmates reveal key information.

“Here’s the secret sauce: most bad guys tell on bad guys. That’s how 80% of good crimes are solved.” – Bob Krieger [54:12]

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Theories, Ransom, and Closing Thoughts

[57:54–62:33]

• Discussion of the million-dollar reward’s potential to “ring true to somebody eventually” and its importance in enticing tips.
• Krieger suspects the abduction was not random—likely multiple people involved, and something went awry, changing the perpetrator’s plan.
• Reflection on ransom notes: some may have been legitimate, others likely opportunistic scams (“glommed on” by bad actors).
• Confidence remains that the truth will eventually come out, though it may take years.

“It’s just a matter of when. It might be years, but it will be solved… some piece of evidence, some piece of information is going to put the investigators on the right track.” – Bob Krieger [62:02]

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Timeline and Noteworthy Quotes

• The Back Door Was Actually Two Doors (screen and kitchen door): [04:00–07:00]
• Flower pots used to prop doors/gate open – an emotional moment: [06:00–08:30]
• Plan vs. Reality for Moving Nancy; Perp Possibly Caught Off Guard by Her Mobility: [14:30–15:45], [23:30–26:21]
• On forensic evidence, gloves, and DNA: [32:14–32:59]
• Police/family cleanup and psychological impact: [36:54–41:13]
• Search coordination, air support drama, and limitations of volunteer searchers: [43:24–50:58]
• Reward and likelihood of inside information solving the case: [55:23–57:54]
• Theory—multiple perps, not a random act, plan went sideways: [58:12–59:19]
• Timeframes for solving and the patience required: [52:39, 62:02]

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Memorable Moments & Tone

Ashleigh Banfield’s style throughout is emotionally engaged, irreverent, and analytical, particularly in her indignation at the abuse of Nancy’s personal objects and the frustration at investigative obstacles.

“He took her beautiful flower pots, and he used them for his evil fucking plot.” – Ashleigh Banfield [06:07]

Krieger’s tone is pragmatic and measured, bringing experienced perspective on both the investigation’s progress and its limitations.

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Final Takeaways

• This case remains tragically open, with clear evidence the perpetrator stalked, planned, and improvised.
• Propped open doors/gates using flower pots suggest premeditation, but a major improvisation due to Nancy’s limited mobility likely changed everything.
• Forensic and search efforts were extensive but not immune to internal challenges and resource constraints.
• The investigation is expected to continue for months or years, with hope that the million-dollar reward or a mistake among perpetrators will ultimately break the case.

“Not knowing is probably…worse than knowing what happened.” – Bob Krieger [62:33]

Transcript

[Doug]

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[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Doug]

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[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways.

[Doug]

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[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

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[Alex Kanchrowitz]

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[Doug]

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[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Hey, everyone. I'm Ashley Banfield and this is Drop dead serious. Thank you so much for being here. I have big news to share with you. This is sort of the biggest thing I've learned in the last I don't know how many days, but a detail of the crime scene at Nancy Guthrie's home. This is day 58 in the investigation into who took Nancy Guthrie from her home in Tucson, Arizona. And if you've been following my channel, thank you. I appreciate it. If you haven't subscribe, it's right here and it's free and it's easy and it's cheap and it's great because I will give you updates and you will not even have to look for them. They'll just boink. They'll be in your inbox. And. And thank you for members. I appreciate you guys joining as well. If you want to be a member, there's another thing down there too says join. So let me tell you from the beginning. Day three. I had a source that told me back door wide open. Right. And a lot of other stuff, too. But let's just focus on that for now because that's the. That's the information. I'm. I'm getting more on today. And Savannah Guthrie gave an interview to Hodokoti on the Today show and said her sister was on the phone with her. And Savannah's in New York saying his mom's missing and the back doors were propped open. That's how Savannah worded it. And it seemed like maybe it was a misstatement. Nope, she said it two different times in the interview. Back doors, propped, doors open. Well, this sounded very different than the source that I had Back door wide open on day three. I've had two subsequent law enforcement sources since that have confirmed back door wide open. So I started thinking, and Gray Hughes has been very helpful in in navigating the back of the house to determine that there are three back doors, Originally I thought there were only two. Because you can't see one of them. It's real hard to see it. It's like, perpendicular to the length of the house. Because the back patio kind of juts out towards you if you're standing in the backyard. And then continues. And that door is perpendicular to the length of the house. And so I've learned that there are two doors on that back door to the left of the patio sofa, the one you can't see, it enters the kitchen. That door goes into the kitchen, and there are two doors. One is the screen door, and one is the inside door. And those were the doors, plural, that were left open. So when Savannah says the back doors were propped open, it's one entrance but two doors. I had guessed that that might be what had happened, that one of the doors had a stone screen door or a storm door, But I didn't know which one. And it is not the one to the right of the sofa on the outdoor back patio. Because there's a lovely bluish door, you know, to the right. No screen door that we could see there. Maybe it's on the inside, I don't know. But the entryway that was left open was that one that goes in the kitchen to the left of the back patio sofa when you're looking at the back. So that's one big, earth shattering piece of information that I was able to determine after talking to several sources in law enforcement. Another detail that really floored me Was that the perpetrator used Nancy's flower pots to do this. He took her beautiful flower pots that I can only imagine she spent time nurturing and making beautiful for her back patio. And he used them for his evil fucking plot. He took her beautiful flower pots, and he propped open that screen door. Remember, I also told you that my sources in law enforcement told me that the Guthrie kids had told them in law enforcement that their mom rarely locked her back doors. This might have been one of the ones that was unlocked. And he opened that screen door, and he propped it open with a flower pot. I'm not able to tell you if that inner door also had a flower pot. It is possible that door just stays open. Right, because it's a heavier door. And in one of the photographs, you can see it behind Savannah as she's playing guitar in her kitchen. And Annie's off to her left at the kitchen window, the kitchen sink. That kitchen sink and window is sort of just Overlooking, you know, what would be the flower pots. You know, it's just so frustrating to think that filthy, vile beast deflowered that kitchen, that entrance, that family home that he did. My sources say that's where he got his entry. But that's not the only thing that he did. He also took Nancy's beautiful flower pots and he propped open the back gate, you know, the area that you enter the backyard. If you're looking at her garage, the back gate would be to the right of the garage, in between the casita, the guest house and Nancy's garage. That's how he got in to the back. And he propped open the back gate with again, Nancy's flower pots, using them for his evil. What's so fascinating about this is why. Why'd you prop them open? What was the reason that you needed those things to stay open? The back gate and her back. Kitchen doors, screen door and heavy door. Why did you need them to stay open? Hmm? Scumbag. What was your plan? What was your sick, twisted fucking plan? Did you know that there was an elderly lady inside all by herself and you knew where her bedroom was? You just have to get through the kitchen, take a right, go through the family room and then into the back master bedroom, all the way over on the right side of the house. If you're looking from the backyard, did you know, had you been looking through her windows, making sure that you knew how to get through that place in the dark? Is that what you were doing? Did you think maybe there is somebody in there, so I better have a fast exit? Because I'll tell you something, Lindsay, my producer and I, we went back in time to look at other sick, twisted criminals who break into people's homes at night. And if you look back at the Golden State Killer, James d'. Angelo, right? Joseph James d'. Angelo. He had a habit of leaving doors and windows open. So it was so he would have a rapid escape route if something went sideways while he was doing his dastardly deeds inside. He had pre planned it too, because apparently he used to stalk his victims beforehand. Actually, we knew that from the trial. You know, we knew that he would stalk his victims in advance. And there's talk that this guy did too. Right, because even though Sheriff Nano says I don't know that we can really trust that the. The picture of the perpetrator without his backpack and without his gun, we. Oh, we can really trust that. That's from a different night. Well, you know, Fox Digital, Michael Ruiz has two law enforcement sources who said it's from the 11th of January, two weeks before Nancy went missing. So this guy was stalking Nancy and stalking the house and finding where the back door was unlocked and finding where the spotlights needed to be knocked off, you know, and. And. And smashed. Right, because we saw them hanging there. We saw the. We saw those. Those spotlights dangling by the other back door that goes into the garage or to a storage room. We're not sure what's inside that door, but it's not necessarily the house. Maybe he took those lights out two weeks early. Knowing I'm coming this way, I'm going to prop that door open. I'm going to come in this way through the back gate. I'm going to prop that gate open. Those spotlights won't be on anymore because I busted them early, and I'm going to go over and those doors are often left unlocked. According to the children, Nancy would leave her back doors unlocked oftentimes. And then maybe he had done enough stalking to know how to get through that house to his victim. But then what? This is what's so confounding. So then why did you go up the front walk and right up to the front door and disable that camera if you weren't planning to use that door? And eventually you did use that door, because we know that Nancy's blood, according to my source, starts in the front foyer of her house inside those blood droplets. And my law enforcement sources say they then continue over the threshold and out the front door. And then we've all seen Brian Enten's video and Michael Ruiz's video of the blood droplets on the outside entrance, those tiles going down the front walk, stopping at the driveway, presumably where he loaded her into a vehicle. So there's a lot of things I've been trying to think through. Right. A lot of things I've been trying to figure out. Did he plan to make Nancy walk at gunpoint out that back kitchen door and then out through the propped open screen door, kitchen door, and propped open gate, and then maybe down the long, dark driveway to where he parked in the dark, avoiding the cameras of her house? Right. She's got a camera at her garage. She's got a camera going out the front, you know, obviously the doorbell cam. But then did he think, oh, dear, I didn't plan for this? Mrs. Guthrie can't walk that far because Savannah's now told us that on a good day, her mom could get to the mailbox. But there weren't many days like that, she said, so maybe this guy didn't count on Mrs. Guthrie not being able to walk as far as he had planned to walk her. And so now he's got to change his plan. Now he's got to go out the front door with her, right? But we also know that it appears it was at 1:47am that he got to that front doorbell cam, because the sheriff's put out the timeline saying, doorbell camera disconnects at 1:47am so maybe he was planning before he even went to the back to take out that camera first. He's. He's got his backpack on, right? He's still got the gun. Everything's still sort of hasn't been perpetrated yet. He hasn't used his kit yet on his back. And maybe his thought was, I better take out this camera first, because eventually I plan to drive, and I don't want this camera seeing the car drive. I also want to know if this camera's live and connected to the cops or if she hears something and calls the cops. So I'm gonna, like, take that camera out, and then I'm gonna wait. Gray Hughes thinks that's a good theory. Like, that's his theory that he took out the camera and then he went to a waiting car far away, waited it out, and thought, okay, it's time at 2:12am here's another tip. The sheriff said that in the timeline that a person is detected on camera, but there's no video of it because Nancy didn't have the subscription. But how do you know it's person? If there's no video, how do you know it's person? Well, often. Often you get these alerts saying person at your front door. So maybe there's like. That was what they got from the back end servers when they did the scratching at Google. But one thing that the. That the sheriff said, and I credit Gray Hughes for this, the. The sheriff said, well, maybe it was an animal. We don't know. Okay, well, then it's outside, so. Outside, because it's not an animal inside, right? We know that Nancy doesn't have an animal inside by this point. He's giving this news conference. We know that. So that's a bit of a telltale, right, that he says, well, maybe it's an animal. But at 2:12, there's a person detected on camera. We're still completely in the dark about inside cameras. I think the sheriff mentioned something about additional cameras inside, but again, he said, could have been an animal. So Maybe that is 2:12am he's walking out on the casita cam, Right. It's shooting the backyard. And, yeah, the back floodlights have been knocked off, but they can see stuff in the dark. Or maybe the driveway cam. Maybe he's walked past the driveway cam and he's getting his vehicle at this point because he knows he's got to get it closer to the house. Got to get it closer to that front door, because he's now planning to take her out the front. Closer because she can't walk very far. I'm trying to think of all these things, and I'm not as good at it as people who actually worked in the business in the past, which is why I called Bob Krieger. I've seen some really good interviews with Bob. My colleague at News Nation, Brian Enten, has done some great interviews with Bob Krieger, and he's retired lieutenant, former SWAT commander for Pima County. But he's not with them anymore. So now he's kind of, from the outside, looking in and trying to analyze all the things that he's seeing from people like me and from. And from Brian and from Michael Ruiz and Gray Hughes. And so I called Bob just to sort of game out what this means, this new information that I got from my sources, that the back doors were one entrance into the kitchen propped open with Nancy's potted plants, and that the back gate is also propped open with Nancy's potted plants. And whether he thinks like me or whether he's got a whole other theory about what might have happened to Nancy, given this new kind of dynamic. Right? Is it. Is it an egress, or is this a plan to walk Nancy out? And why, then is there blood at the front door going out to the driveway? And I don't think you're gonna guess what Bob Krieger says, because it's not exactly what I think. I'm gonna have that for you in just a moment. So, Bob, all of this is so intriguing as we learn little pieces of what happened at Mrs. Guthrie's house. The fact that we now know which of the doors were propped open. And it's just a single entrance. It's not multiple doors in the back were propped open. Is any of this sort of surprising to you

[Doug]

and Doug? There's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Doug]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Together we're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Doug]

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[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

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[Alex Kanchrowitz]

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[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

then.

[Doug]

Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Doug]

Oh no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Together we're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Doug]

Anyways, only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

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[Bob Krieger]

Yes and no. Not really knowing why or who propped them open. But it would tell me that if. If it was the suspect who did it, they probably did it to have a quick avenue of egress to get out if something happened or went kind of against their plan. And just so you don't get lost in the house they're going in. Even houses are small. Sometimes people can get turned Around So there's reasons why it could have been and you know, a little surprising because, you know, it's gonna, well, I guess at one o' clock in the morning it's not gonna show up too much in the neighborhood. But is the back side of the house but still a propped open door or something that you look at say, huh, that's kind of weird.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Weird. But do you see it a lot? You know, in the investigations that you guys have done over the years, do you see that a lot?

[Bob Krieger]

I personally have it. No. Usually it's either forced entry, which is no way to cover that up, or the doors are closed and just left unlocked to see something propped open. Kind of like this whole investigation has been. It is definitely a little bit different than traditional things that I've seen in burglaries and any kind of call where someone goes into someone else's house.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

I'm also trying to think through the gate, you know, so we know that he made entry through this back open door. If you're looking at the back of the house, it's to the left of that little patio sofa. You can't see it because the door is perpendicular to the length of the house. So you can't see it from most of the, the drone shots in the back. But it's there and I missed it at first and then found it later. But he made his plan and he went those doors and he. And he propped them open with the flower pot and I'm not sure if he propped open the kit. The inner kitchen door, but he propped open the outer screen door, but he propped open that gate as well. And I'm gaming that out trying to think of. So is this again what you just mentioned, the quick egress or is this something that guys will often do?

[Bob Krieger]

Quick egress? Most gates, honestly most people actually lock their gates more than they lock their doors. So to find a gate that was open. And again I think we're assuming that he did this because I also say this, it's not that uncommon for folks to prop their gates open. You know, if you're doing something going in and out a lot now, maybe not an 84 year old woman, a little less probability there, I would guess. But. But yeah, that's, you know, again, the way just the fencing and walls are in Tucson, it's, it's a little different than like you know, just your normal cyclone fence and things like that. So sometimes you can't find the gate. So it's to, to see one, both of them done Is, I guess, a little more. It makes a little more sense than just see one of them done.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

So I. I think I'm trying to think like this. This monster, right? He's got a plan. Probably knows who's there, probably knows who he's going in for. By this point, the back floodlights have been smashed, probably on another date. Probably on the date that he showed up without the gun in the backpack on that front video. And he makes his way into the backyard knowing he's going to hit one of these back doors. And the Guthrie kids told the police that their mom used to leave several of her black back doors unlocked. But it almost feels as though he's planning to bring her out that way. Because if you're propping him open, maybe it's a good, quick egress, but it's also a way. I'll bring her out this way as well, so as not to go out the front of the house, because, God, what if. What if someone's driving by?

[Bob Krieger]

Yeah, possibly. If I were doing it, I would probably go out the front. The backyard with the yard itself, that's easy to get through, but once you get beyond that back wall, you're looking at, you know, just desert area. A lot of rocks, a lot of brush, a lot of cactus, things that are going to make you fall down. If you're not familiar with it, it's definitely a much more difficult route to go. Uh, and it's not easy to get to a road or a car that might be waiting or any of these things. So whether you're carrying her, whether she's walking with you, definitely much, much easier route out the front. So.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Well, I'm. I'm thinking he's got the car at her garage, so he just needs to clear that open gate with her and load her into a vehicle, or he's got his car down. And I. I think I'm going to retract that statement, because I don't think he would have brought the car up to the garage seen on the camera. I think he's left his down by the road, and maybe he's realizing when he's inside. My plan to bring her out the back kitchen door, out the back gate that I propped open, out past the garage, and down the driveway. It's not going to work. This woman, apparently, unbeknownst to this guy, can't walk that far.

[Bob Krieger]

All of these things are possible. And the mobility is an issue, Just the weight alone. Most people don't understand the difficulties of carrying someone who weighs. You know, £150, £120. It's not easy. So all of these things are going to go into whatever plan that he may have had. You know, personally, I think there was probably other folks involved. So maybe the car drove up and picked them up right in the driveway. But at this point, we just don't know.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Yeah, I'm wondering, I'm not so sure about a second perp. I don't know. I feel like there's no honor among thieves and there's $1.2 million at stake right now, so who knows? But I wonder if, of course, the idea to give yourself a quick exit and run and get to your car would be a reason you'd leave those propped open, but also would be a reason I can just walk this woman at gunpoint. I don't have to carry anybody. But lo and behold, no, you can't. You can't walk her at gunpoint because Savannah let us know, on a good day she could make it to the mailbox, but most days, no. So thinking like a thief, if you're back on the force, how are you now Gaming, how everything went down inside that house?

[Bob Krieger]

Probably not according to plan, you know, because whatever that plan is, things I think clearly didn't go, excuse me, a way they were planning those two. So however they decided to take her out of the house, was, was, was that way. You know how there's so many different options. I personally still think it was the front door and probably just hopefully walking. But. But again, if someone's walking, they're probably making noise. There's so many variables that go into it.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

It's also, if he was doing everything via the back, why did he go to the front and dismantle that camera? Because that sort of throws all of these theories off. Gaming, what happened inside? Given everything's propped open, but he's still taking out the front doorbell cam. So given all that, what are your thoughts?

[Bob Krieger]

Something happened probably that he couldn't walk her out. Like we've all said, Savannah said that she, she couldn't walk, you know, except on a good day, to the mailbox. You wait, you're woken up at one o' clock in the morning. Whatever time it was, I think that was an unplanned for event. And the easiest way was quick out the front door to a car that was probably waiting or came up to pick them up.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Let me ask you something. If he. Again, he's made his way in the back, he's propped open the gate, he's propped open the the kitchen door, maybe for his fast egress, but also maybe because that's his plan to get Nancy out. And then he realizes it can't. So now he's thinking my car's too far away, but it could be close and I could get her to the end of the front walkway, which we know is where she walked out, given the blood drops in the front foyer, over the threshold, as my sources have told me, of the front door, out on the front entrance tiles, and then down the walkway where it stops. Do you think that he restrained Nancy in some way so that he could run back out and get that car and bring it closer?

[Bob Krieger]

I think she was probably restrained inside in some manner. But this is where I go back to. I don't think one person could have done this. That's too much going on to restrain, to try and stay here while I go get the car. Again, I know nothing about it. That's just a gut instinct more than anything else. You know, if he did do that, it would have been difficult because, you know, the driveway is not huge, but it's still going to take some time and you're putting a lot of,

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

a

[Bob Krieger]

lot of, I guess, respect. Yeah. Risk into what you've done to, to leave, to leave her there, to go try and get a car to bring it up.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

I was wondering if maybe being tied or restrained in some way may have caused the injuries on an 84 year old woman's skin that might have bled, that might have been part of the reason she was bleeding at that front door. But I still can't get past 2:12am and 1:47am because on the timeline again, Sheriff Nanos, who knows if you can trust what he has put out and if it has to be changed again, but he says that the doorbell cam disconnects at 1:47am At 2:12am, person is detected on the camera. There's no video available, but then he said in a news conference it could have been an animal, which means an outdoor camera. Right. It's not gonna be an animal inside. Probably not, yeah. So knowing that, I'm trying to figure out if the door, if the doorbell cam disconnects, that's probably the front. That's probably when he's first arrived. He's still got the backpack on and he's disconnecting it. But why, why if his plan was to go in the back and prop open those doors?

[Bob Krieger]

That's a good question. You know, if I had been doing that, the first thing I'd done was destroyed that Camera ripped it right off the wall. Even if I was planning on using the back door, because that's just another piece of evidence that is going to be brought back to me, you know, like it essentially has. But even if you were doing that with the back door, my thought process is all right, it's just a way to stay off of more video. You're going to want to remove all video cameras as quickly as possible. If you're, if you're going through this scenario, at least I would want to.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Is it possible that he showed up, left his car out on the road, walked up that horrible moment where we saw him on cameras at 147, he manhandles it and eventually I believe he took the vines and pried the camera off. But you know, another source said the cameras were smashed off. There's glass shards that were witnessed down below by Michael Ruiz of Fox Digital. And then he went back to his vehicle to bring that vehicle in because now it can't be seen on that front doorbell cam. And then planned to go in through the back. But still it's weird that he wouldn't come out with her out that back way. He chose to go out the front

[Bob Krieger]

and going back to the car issue in that neighborhood. I don't know if you've been there or not, but in most neighborhoods in Tucson, the car is going to stick out like a sore thumb on the street. More so than in a driveway. Even if it pulls in and turns its lights off at 1 o' clock in the morning, people will notice it way more parked on the street just because the dynamic of the neighborhood like that. So, you know, again, a lot of different theories and where it parks and how it parks and you know, angles of view of the cameras. You know, I can't imagine you did a lot of studying what type of camera it was to see, you know, what your field of view is, you know, to perfectly park it outside of view. But you've got the pillars on the side that are blocking views and things like that. So it's not a rocket scientist to park it out of view if you need to.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

I think you're right. I think you could pull in Nancy's driveway. If you're staring at the front of the house, her right hand driveway, not the left hand drive, the right hand driveway that would take you to the garage if you want to go there. But don't drive all the way to the garage and don't drive all the way to the front door. I think there's the sweet spot in there that he could have put a vehicle and stayed off of all cameras and maybe that he had. I think this guy had seen it. I think he had staked out that house. He had probably broken the floodlights in advance. I think the January 11th. Again, Michael Ruiz from Fox Digital talked to two law enforcement sources who both said January 11th was that other image where he's got no backpack and no gun. Are you. Do you feel that that's plausible?

[Bob Krieger]

Yes, very much so. If, if indeed that regardless of what the date is, if this suspect was there on a different day, it was there for one reason, in my opinion. That's to see what's going on in the neighborhood, to see what's going on at the house and to make plans and how to, you know, best succeed. And, you know, kidnapping Nancy, which includes looking for cameras, looking for lights, all of those things that, you know, first, those would be the first things that law enforcement would look at as well. Once, once they got there, trying to, to gather the evidence.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Do you think the whole notion that the, the back doors, again, you got to be really clear. Back doors is one entrance. It's a screen door and a kitchen door. It's one entrance, not all the doors. But do you think that stymied the investigators the way I feel? I mean, they always know more than I do. But do you think they. That they're stymied by the back door plan and the front door blood? No.

[Bob Krieger]

Both of them, you look at, they're the same thing. It's a way in and it's a way out, whether they're propped open, whether, you know, there's force entry, whether they locked them on their way as they were going out the front door, it's just another piece of evidence for them. They're going to look at the exact same way, collect what they need to collect, swab what they need to swab, collect their DNA, all of those things. It's not, in my opinion, any type of smoking gun or anything like that. It's just a plan that may or may not been used by, by the suspect.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Do you think it's fair to assume that they would have focused real heavily on those door handles and those flower pots for the possibility of his DNA, because again, he's, he's got gloves on, but he's got a light, I think, in that mouth of his, and it had to go in and it had to come out, which means those gloves probably have some DNA on them, which means anything he touched those gloves. So do you think they may have gotten the mixed DNA sample off the flower pots with the door handles.

[Bob Krieger]

It could have come from anywhere, but those would be primary places to swab to test. Anywhere a hand is likely to go, that's where you go. And then you just start looking around and it looks like it's out of place or been moved. You're going to hit those those areas next and it's all just probability at that point.

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[Alex Kanchrowitz]

Hi, this is Alex Kanchowitz. I'm the host of Big Technology Podcast, a longtime reporter and an on air contributor to cnbc. And if you're like me, you're trying to figure out how artificial intelligence is changing the business world and our lives. So each week on Big Technology, I bring on key actors from companies building AI tech and outsiders trying to influence it, asking where this is all going. They come from places like Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon and plenty more. So if you want to be smart with your wallet, your career choices, in meetings with your colleagues and at dinner parties, listen to Big Technology Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bob Krieger]

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[Alex Kanchrowitz]

hi, this is Alex Canceroitz. I'm the host of Big Technology Podcast, a longtime reporter and an on air contributor to cnbc. And if you're like me, you're trying to figure out how artificial intelligence is changing the business world and our lives. So each week on Big Technology, I bring on key actors from companies building AI tech and outsiders trying to influence it, asking where this is all going. They come from places like Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon, and plenty more. So if you want to be smart with your wallet, your career choices, in meetings with your colleagues and at dinner parties, listen to Big Technology Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bob Krieger]

You know what, what is most likely to touch door handles and things that are out of place. So, yeah, that would be a very likely source for good DNA, if they do indeed have any.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

And there really are only certain people who should have their dirty little fingers on an older woman's door handles. You know, there are very specific people within her inner circle and then there are people who absolutely should not have their hands on her back door handles. So. But that leads me to the question of the, the CSI efforts, like just as an out, you know, look at, you're in, you're an insider, but you're an outsider. You're a former Pima county deputy. But do you think the proper amount of CSI collection was done? Because originally it felt like 30 hours, man, it was done that that scene was released to the family and then lo and behold, FBI shows up later. But do you think the right amount, enough was done to gather the things that I assume they gathered?

[Bob Krieger]

It's so hard to say. And as a, you know, as, you know, you know, armchair quarterback, the next days, maybe they should have kept it longer. But I've said since day one, I've worked scenes where we've processed it and then, you know, we leave. And you can only do what you know at that moment in time. You know, you're not going to cut all these walls down and things like that. So it's so hard to say on the timeline, do I think they did a good job when they were there, knowing the detectives and the forensic folks who were there? Absolutely, they did their job. That doesn't mean that they could have overlooked something, because that happens. But. And when you do that, you go back and you. You just, you try and right that ship, you know, to. That's one of those things where it's easy to armchair quarterback and say, you should have held this for months and months and months. Like we should still have it as a scene. But there's a reasonableness factor that goes into all of these things. You know, what does the family want? You know, what is the people who have standing to the house, they have a right to their house back. Once, you know, the crime scene is processed and once you kind of looked at everything and done it as much as you can do, you can't really just sit there and hold on to it. So that's a long way of saying. It's hard to say.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Yeah, you know, Savannah came back to the home and I assume that her siblings did as well at some point. But I just wondered from a police perspective, it's not the job of the sheriffs, it's not the job of the police to clean up a crime scene. It's a horrible thing. But it is the job of, you know, calling. There are services. There are literally services that do this. And I don't know, I never saw that kind of a van show up. It doesn't mean it didn't. But when Savannah came back through the home, do you think that that blood still would have been in that front foyer that I've, my source has told me was there inside the house? Or do you think that the police may have put a cover over it so that she could walk through the home without seeing that? Like, what is the protocol in that?

[Bob Krieger]

I would imagine, because I don't know when the first day Savannah was back at the house was, but my guess would be that the local family would have already been through there relatively quick. I would have, if I were running this type of call, I would have wanted them there as quickly as possible to be inside that house to tell me, hey, does anything look out of place, what's going on? That's not normal to this house. So whether that's one of the other siblings or son in law or whoever, but someone who has an intimate knowledge of the house going back to the. The other question probably, unless the family cleaned it up once it was initially turned back to them. And from what I saw from the video and some of the still photos, there wasn't a lot of blood, at least with law enforcement, because there's a significant amount of blood, some drops here and there, you know, easily wiped up with a paper towel and some bleach. Or however you're going to do it. But, yeah, unfortunately, and that's some of the hardest things as cops you have to do. It's like, all right, we've done our job. Good luck with the rest. And typically, we'll pass on information for services and things like that. But that's part of that side of the job that nobody ever thinks about, you know, who's going to clean this mess up. And like you said, there are services out there. So was it probably still there unless the family cleaned it up? Yes, it was probably still there.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

And I'll bet you, Bob, honestly, the media was there instantly. Like on Monday, Sheriff Nanos had a news conference because it was such a big story. You know, 24 hours after it had happened, it was a very big story. And I don't think anybody noticed or was able to identify that family members had come that next day to clean up. Probably the opposite. We saw no family members for weeks because they were in hiding. I mean, they had, you know, Savannah talked about it. They got a. A couple of places that they moved between, and they. They said the media was closing in, so they. They stayed away. So I just wonder if on that day, weeks later, that would have been such a difficult thing. Would the police have been involved in saying, mitigating how awful that was, or would that have really been up to them to. To sort of deal with what the crime scene presented?

[Bob Krieger]

You. You would.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

You.

[Bob Krieger]

You'd tell them what they were walking into. You wouldn't want them to walk into something blank, blind. And again, if there's the amount of blood at the front area, whether it's inside or outside, wasn't a lot. And that's why I. I still would guess that the family probably would have done some cleanup, at least on the inside, especially if they were there within those first hours before we. Before any news conference even happened. Now, again, if it was a crime scene, the investigators, I would hope, would not have let them clean anything up until it was turned back over to them. But in that first 30 hours, you know, right after that. And. But. But I. I personally, if I were, like, passing on the information, I would absolutely tell them, and that's usually when the conversation would happen. What can we do about that? All right, here are some resources for you to try and, you know, so you don't. No family should have to clean up a scene, period. And it's unfortunate that, you know, law enforcement fire, you know, it's just not part of what we do. So there are these folks who do do it. And, you know, that's why we can kind of help and guide in that area.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, by the time the white tent went up at the outside of the front door, I don't know if the blood was cleaned off. And those are. Tiles are sort of porous. There may have still been evidence of it. It's maybe really hard to clean. And I don't know. Again, we didn't see any cleaning services show up. And, you know, there was live streamers that were trained on 24 7. So it would be pretty surprising if that was missed. Not to say it be.

[Bob Krieger]

Could.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Might not be, but it would be a bit surprising. You know, I wanted to ask you about the. The searching because, look, a lot of people in Savannah included are almost bracing for the news that maybe Mrs. Guthrie did not survive this. Right. And yet that would tell you that there may be a body somewhere. So do you have any. Any idea why the sheriff would rebuff the efforts of the Cajun Navy, you know, well respected group that's been around since Katrina, at the least, offering free services to come and help? Look, there were others that did as well. Any idea why and whether that was a bad idea or a. Were there redeeming reasons why?

[Bob Krieger]

Again, those are one of those questions. This is. The Pima county is so vast, you know, do they need to probably walk through her neighborhood yard to yard? No. And quite honestly, you know, unless they're going to front doors and knocking on people's yards, hey, can I go in your backyard and look? There's no real, like I said, redeeming quality to that. There were air searches done, granted, a little bit later than they should have been done. We won't talk about that. But those resources were up. I know when those resources were starting to be discussed, it was a week or so later. At that point, I don't see any reason why not to let them do it other than making sure that they know where they can and can't go legally. Because again, this is the old west and there are people who don't want anyone walking through their property and they might encounter someone with. With a gun or dogs or things like that. Now, that being said, if these folks are doing it, they're going to do it the right way. They're not going to kick in doors and fences and things like that. They're probably going to knock on doors. But I do know that the investigators did a thorough search of the area those first couple days.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

But, you know, it's a vast desert Right. That's not yards. It's not private property. I, I would think that they should welcome anybody that, that might want to bring their resources. You know, some of these guys are former law enforcement. Some of them have ATVs. Many of them bring their boats when they're, you know, coming to terrain that requires boats.

[Bob Krieger]

Right.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

That's why they're called the Cajun Navy. It just feels to me like that's still something that could be done. That's still, you know, especially out in,

[Bob Krieger]

in more of the outskirts areas. Absolutely. Let, let them go do it. There's, there's no harm from them looking as far as I would be concerned. So the answer to the original question, any redeeming qualities to have them not do it? I don't think so. I think, you know, a thousand sets of eyes looking for are better than 50 sets of eyes looking for.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

You mentioned something about the air search, and I could hear it in your voice. Talk to me, talk to me, Goose. What, what are your thoughts?

[Bob Krieger]

It just goes back to some of the things that the sheriff has done previous, before any of this happened. The same reason why there were, you know, less experienced investigators in the homicide unit, because he chose to move investigators out who were experienced. He and his crew chose to remove a pilot from the air unit. It was supposed to work that day because of some issues that arose, some discipline issues. And, you know, in a vacuum, hey, you've got to be a good employee, right? But if you're only not a good employee because you talk kind of grumpy to people or, you know, you're kind of short with them, that's just how a lot of cops are and a lot of people are. In general, being a pilot is completely different than being just not, not just from being a patrol deputy. That is a skill that we have literally spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to get you to a point to where that asset, and I will tell you this, that airplane that we have, the airplanes that we have are the two most important resources within our agency. Life saving resources for their technology, for their ability to find things on the ground, they're more important than a SWAT team, they're more important than a homicide investigator in the moment. And to have that shell for even a couple hours because I'm mad at you, that's an unfortunate decision. And that, that's.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

How many hours are we talking? Hours or days?

[Bob Krieger]

I heard it was just a few. I heard it was like three or four hours before a. At least the helicopter was up, but the helicopter in Searching, this type of thing, yes, it's a, it's a better platform than nothing, but it's still not nearly as good as that. I don't know the exact time frame when the airplane actually got off the ground, but I do know it was several hours.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Wow. Nano said, let's see, Monday, which was 24 to 30 hours, I think when he gave his news conference around 30 hours after Mrs. Guthrie disappeared, he said, we threw everything at this. We threw our air resources dogs, we threw our people. And now we're kind of calling off the search. And I thought, hang on, isn't this when you really start?

[Bob Krieger]

Well, when you think about that, you know, the search is going to go so far out. There's a science to searching, searching for missing people, searching for lost hikers, all of that stuff. Pima county is the size of Rhode island and Connecticut combined. So, you know, you're not going to search every inch of Pima County. I don't, you know, it's just the nature of the beast. Nobody has those amount of resources. You're going to search a reasonable area based on the information that you have. And I would hope that he was reaching out to his search and rescue supervisors because they are the ones who are experts at searching. They know how far to go. Reasonableness. Hopefully they're working traffic cameras, which there aren't a lot of, but, you know, all the resources that they're using, the nest cams for neighbors and things like that. Because again, you have to be looking for something and you have. There's the. At some point you do have to say, all right, we've, we've done everything. Now could we search every inch in a grid search? Yes, it's going to take hundreds of years probably to do all Pima County. So again, that's one of those armchair quarterbacking decisions. We've done this before. We, they, the sheriff's department has done this before. This isn't the first time a person has gone missing. And you know, they do. They are the experts between search and rescue and the investigators. They know what to do. And so they're talking and making these decisions as a group, I would hope.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Well, Pima County's big. And yet, gosh, I don't know how many weeks ago it was, I had a law enforcement source who told me that the search for Nancy extended into a neighboring county with the signal sniffer. Did you hear much about the success or the frustrations with that?

[Bob Krieger]

I heard about it. I don't know the all on details of the sniffer Actually, I've talked to some of the folks who worked with it. So I'm familiar with it. And, you know, I know that there was a search done at the landfill by a device or an airplane out of Ryan Field, which is out in the western suburbs of Pima County. And I. Because I saw its flight pattern and all that, clearly it was searching for, that it wouldn't just go over a landfill for any other reason.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

And yet the sheriff said it didn't have anything to do with law enforcement.

[Bob Krieger]

I find that hard to believe, the timing and that you're not doing a LIDAR search of a landfill for any other reason. And I'm not saying they were lidar. If I were a betting man, they were sniffing, because that was when it was very hot. On the possibility that they could still get a single from a pacemaker.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Well, that pacemaker will continue to emit signals for years.

[Bob Krieger]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

So do you think that they'll continue to use that LIDAR effort? Is that kind of like one and done?

[Bob Krieger]

They. They will if they get something to go on again, because not knowing, you know, my guess is if it's off a Bluetooth single, that's a much shorter area. You have to be within a certain distance of the ground.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

I could imagine like 800ft. That's what. That's what many of the tech experts got behind it. 800 to 1,000.

[Bob Krieger]

Yeah, that's. That's much more than I would have thought. So it's. It's still. It's still viable. But again, how do you do it? You know, resource management. And, you know, one thing I've brought up with some other folks, there is still a budget associated with this. And it's horrible to say, you know, but the sheriff's department, the FBI, they are a business, not a business, but you know what I mean? They have.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

They've got. They've got limited resources. They've got limited resources.

[Bob Krieger]

Exactly. So, you know, would I love to be able to fly a drone all over every inch of Pima county for the next however many hours, days, months, weeks it would take to see if we could find it? Yes. Is that practical? It's really not. So, again, it's a balancing act.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

It's like I keep thinking about when I covered the missing MH370 in the Indian Ocean. And I remember it's smaller than a needle in a haystack, you know, and it was just so frustrating. To that end, do you have any idea about the task force? Like, when does that start to. To Draw down as well, because it 400 officers drew down to a task force. When does that start to draw down?

[Bob Krieger]

I think that that'll stay in play for quite a while. Because if you look at what they're doing now, they're following up on leads. If you know the number that was thrown out there early on was 40,000 leads in the first couple weeks. It would take months and months to go through that amount of leads. So what they're doing now is probably just that, following up on those, going back out, knocking on doors, knocking on doors of folks who might not have been in town, you know, who might not even know this is going on because they don't follow the media for whatever reasons. So I do think that task force will stay in play for a while. You know, you're not gonna put a task force together. It's only been a week or two now that the task force, maybe three has been in place. That's, that's gonna go on probably until this case becomes cold. And it doesn't become cold until everything has been exhausted and there's a lot to exhaust in this, in this case.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

So what's your definition of. My definition of a while is it's three hours till dinner. What's your definition of a while for

[Bob Krieger]

a case like this? Years maybe. Quite honestly, it's until you, you don't have anything left that's, you know, homicide cases that go cold, they go cold after years. It's not a couple of days, it's not a couple of weeks, it's not a couple of months. And I think with society being, hey, we need something right now because of our 24 hour news cycles and immediate access to everything. Folks just don't understand that this concerning is not a word. This is not surprising to me. This is just how cases work. We're only 50. People say we're 50 days into it or however many it is, 60 days. And I'm like, we're only 60 days.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

58.

[Bob Krieger]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're only 58 days into this. That's, that's just, that's just the tip. That's not even the tip of the iceberg. This is going to go on unless there's a huge break. Like you said, honor amongst thieves. I do think there's a good possibility that someone is going to say something eventually because money talks or they're going to find something or a video or something is going to pop up. And that might not be for a week or a month or a year or two years.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Or three years, someone took someone's car and borrowed it and it was annoying and didn't ask and then brought it back or stole a car and returned it in a weird way and you didn't even know, but you don't think you parked that way on February 1st. Or an ex girlfriend. She may have not been an ex girlfriend that night, but she may be an ex girlfriend in two, six, eight months. Yep, that's usually what you guys are, right? You go lick your chops thinking, just wait, someone's going to get pissed off at this guy.

[Bob Krieger]

And that's usually a. Here's the secret sauce. Most bad guys tell on bad guys. That's how 80% of good crimes are solved. It's someone telling on their friend or their cellmate or something because they got drunk or they got high and they said something that they probably shouldn't have. And it just, it's the little crack in the dam that we, that we need. And it happens all the time, but

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

sometimes it takes a while, right? Like, and also the, the bad guys who do this, how often they're not professional secret keepers, how often do they eventually let on like their conscience or whatever it is that's on their shoulders, finally lets the floodgates open.

[Bob Krieger]

That's hard to put a number on, but it's high, you know, and I wouldn't call it conscience or guilt. It's, you know, it's bragging, hey, I got away with this. And you know, you'd be surprised how many times they, they tell someone they've known for two hours because they just became cellmates at the jail or the prison. And that's where it happens. Like, dude, you've known them for a day and you're giving up your deepest secrets. And he's going to tell someone so he can get more day room or, you know, a better, a better location, whatever it might be.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

What about confidential sources out there? You know, I know how it works out there. I know they had gang units, how they work. Do you suspect that's a really big part? Right now this investigation is getting out to all the confidential sources that the police use, offering all sorts of incentives to say, look, you guys talk. Somebody's gonna make a whole bunch of money out there if you guys find this guy. Is that part of this? Is it a big part of it?

[Bob Krieger]

I don't think it's a big part of it. That's more TV stuff. That's TV and movie, quite honestly.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Hang on a second. I am a fill in host for Dan Abrams on unpatrol live. And sitting next to me is Sticks, Sean Sticks Larkin. And he was in the Tulsa gang unit for a long time. So he was constantly working sources like that. Right. So it's tv. Yes, but it's also real.

[Bob Krieger]

It is. It's more real back in the day. It's weird to say that, but years ago, it's far more practical than it is today. Not to say it doesn't happen, because I worked a task force. One of my last assignments was a counter narcotics alliance. And I do know that they had their sources. So people still do work them, but it's not as active or as glamorous as it might be. That being said, if I knew a bad guy or I talked to bad guys, because there are bad guys who like to give up information for perks. Yes. I would be working every single person that I knew.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

And let me ask you, Bob. There's a hell of a perk that's not normal to most cases. And that is the million dollar reward that Savannah Guthrie has put up. Does that. I mean, is that almost like manna from heaven for investigators who do work with confidential sources to go out there with that, to say, guess what?

[Bob Krieger]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

It's not just the police reward we're gonna give you. It's that big million dollar lottery ticket you're gonna get.

[Bob Krieger]

It's huge. When the family put that out, I remember saying that day, I'm like, I think this will be a factor into whenever someone decides to give it up. That's gonna be a factor. And again, it might not be right away because that pissed off girlfriend is going to happen eventually.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

But cops will use it, right? Like, cops will be able to actually go underground and use that and dangle that out in front of people. All the cops.

[Bob Krieger]

I've got this carrot for you. It's. It's not the. The typical. What? I think it started at 588. Crime was offering 500 for information. That's typically where it starts. You're looking at, you know, a million plus dollars. Someone's. That's gonna ring true to somebody eventually.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Yeah. Especially if this guy eventually decides to brag. Although this guy probably knows there's a million dollar ticket on his head as well. So maybe he won't have that bravado for a lot longer. What's your theory of what happened to Nancy in that home and then afterward?

[Bob Krieger]

I think whoever went there went there with a reason. Whatever that reason was. It's. It's hard to say, but I don't think this was any type of random act. I think there were multiple people involved. I think they went there with the goal to take her and get money out of it. I do. Just. Just from the way they were dressed in the gloves and the mask and all of that.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

That's not dressed like Bobsy Twins.

[Bob Krieger]

Not. I don't think they were dressed like Tim's. I think there was a guy sitting in a car or more than one guy sitting in a car, just like you and I look right now.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

No, no, the guy on camera is the. The same guy. Whether he's got the backpack and gun or whether he's not got the backpack and the gun. He's the same guy.

[Bob Krieger]

Probably. Yeah. It at least appears that way. I won't say it is, but it appears that the stature and everything looks. Looks similar. And I think that was their plan. And I do think something happened during the course of it, whether it was inside the house, whether it was once they got outside the house or left. And I do think whatever happened was probably tragic. And I think that changed their plan. And so far, once that changed, I think that's why it's been so quiet.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

But, Bob, why tmz? Let's just say that the plan didn't go well. Why would they then make it as big as they could? TMZ and television stations, why wouldn't they just seek out that communication, get it to the family and say, this is what I have. This is what I want?

[Bob Krieger]

Because that's the nature of someone who's in their early 20s or younger generations. They know TMZ. They know. They probably know how to get in contact with TMZ better than they know how to make a phone call. You know, so these are the little things. And I will tell you, I've heard stories about different ransom notes going to different places. I don't think necessarily the. I know there was also someone in Tucson who was arrested for making a false accusation of some sort.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

California. California. And brought. And brought. Brought to Arizona to face federal charges for it.

[Bob Krieger]

Right. So. And I think that was especially as it went on with tmz. My gut is those probably weren't related. Now, they could have been. Again, it's just. It's just a gut. But that was put out there because they also. Whoever was feeding tmz, they wanted to, hey, look, we caused that. You know, it's like these gamers who have these swatting incidents. You know, why do they do that? Why does anyone do anything like that? They get to sit at home, and they're lazy boy. And chuckle a little bit and say, look, I got them to go off track for an hour or two hours or three or four days.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Yeah, yeah. Do you. Do you think that any of the ransom overtures were real?

[Bob Krieger]

It's hard to say. I've heard things about the early ones that would make me think that, yes, they probably were.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Were.

[Bob Krieger]

But. But then again, there's also this. The thinking that they. It could have just been just. You know, it's like a psychic. If you say the right things in the right order. You don't need to be a genius to be a psychic. You just know how to play that game. So it's so difficult to say, you know, do I think that this started and ransom was gonna be part of it? Yes. Do I think the ransom notes were connected? That's harder to say.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

And that maybe it's just a bizarre coincidence that the person or persons who took Nancy, planned to try to make money off her, realized that something went sideways and they couldn't. And then bad actors glommed on and took advantage of a situation and, you know, lo and behold, sent ransom requests.

[Bob Krieger]

Yep. I think that's actually more probable than not that exact scenario, because that's just. Unfortunately, there. It only takes one person. You know, I'm not saying everybody's a horrible person. It just takes one. One person to sit at home and, you know, spoof their IP address and send these. It looks like it's coming from the Ukraine or wherever.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Do you have. Do you have confidence that this will be solved?

[Bob Krieger]

I do. And again, this is. This is the cop out answer. It's just a matter of when. It might be years, but it will be solved. You know, some piece of evidence, some piece of information is going to put the investigators on the right track. It Unabomber took years. People have to realize that a lot of times, these just take a long, long time to solve.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

God, for the Guthrie's sake, I sure hope that it's going to be shorter rather than longer, because it is excruciating not knowing.

[Bob Krieger]

I could not imagine being in their position. It doesn't matter how famous you are, what you do for a living. And I've dealt with families who go through similar things all the time. And not knowing is probably, at this point, worse than knowing what happened.

[Host (possibly Dan Abrams or a guest host)]

Yeah, that's the problem. And you could see it in Savannah's face and her voice in everything she said. Just the utter agony as she said that they're going through. Bob, thank you so much. I really appreciate you helping me sort of navigate through a lot of the stuff that I've been learning. Every time I learn a new piece of the puzzle, I start over with what I think happened.

[Bob Krieger]

Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Hopefully the investigators keep following up on every tip. And for the GUT three and their family's sake, hopefully this gets solved, like you said, sooner rather than later.