CHILLING NEW DETAILS: Ohio Double Murder Is More Disturbing Than It Looks | Dentist & Wife Killed

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Episode: CHILLING NEW DETAILS: Ohio Double Murder Is More Disturbing Than It Looks | Dentist & Wife Killed
Date: January 9, 2026

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Overview of the Episode

Ashleigh Banfield takes listeners deep into the chilling, confounding double murder of Spencer and Monique Tepe in Columbus, Ohio—a case where answers are scarce, the mystery is growing by the day, and the presence of two very young children left unharmed adds a harrowing emotional layer. Banfield weaves together emerging details, community speculation, a sequence of 911 calls, forensic quandaries around interviewing child witnesses, and a neighborhood tour to ask: What do we really know, and what could we soon discover?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening and Case Background (02:00)

• Case Summary:
  Spencer and Monique Tepe, parents of two young children and beloved members of their block, were found shot to death early on December 30th, 2025. Their children, aged one and four, and the family dog were left physically unharmed in the house on North 4th Street, Columbus.
• The Main Questions:
  • "No signs of forced entry, but also no weapon to be found." (06:55)
  • Is this a classic whodunit or something stranger?

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A Deep Dive Into the Crime Scene and Neighborhood (07:45)

• Neighborhood Context:
  Banfield sketches out the geography: 1411 N. 4th Street, just off 8th Avenue, with a back alley possibly relevant to the killer’s approach or escape.
• Camera Coverage:
  “There are freaking cameras everywhere. The neighbor has like the measles of cameras on their house. There's cameras everywhere, every single side of the house.” (07:20)
• Potential Entry Points:
  • No forced entry, access code used, or possibly an open window.
  • Detailed speculation on the plausibility of how a 911 caller could have seen Spencer’s body as reported—raising doubts about whether the bodies were on the second floor as police state, or if the caller entered the house or had another vantage point. (19:53, 43:06)

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The Cascade of 911 Calls (10:18–19:53)

• April 911 Call (Pre-murders):
  • An unidentified, distressed, possibly intoxicated woman calls from the Tepe home, cries, hangs up, then answers when the dispatcher calls back: “Got into it. But I'm okay, I promise.” (10:48)
  • Later family statements say it wasn't Monique on the line, despite earlier assertions about a party that night. The party explanation is walked back.
• December 30, 2025 — The Day of the Murders:
  1. Boss in Florida: Notices Spencer’s absence from work, calls 911 for a welfare check. (13:01)
  2. Friend at the Scene: Arrives, hears children crying inside, worries about breaking in. (15:09)
     • “I can hear kids inside and I swear I think I heard one yell, but we can't get in at this point. I don't know if I need to break the door in…” (15:21)
  3. Distressed Friend/Neighbor: Reports seeing a body, unsure how to get help, kids are heard screaming in the background. (18:36)
     • “He's off of his bed and he's, you know, bloody and there's blood everywhere and he looks like he's, you know, lying in blood. I can't get closer to see more than that.” (19:03)

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Unusual Precursor: The December 19th Door-Banging Incident (22:40)

• Eleven Days Before the Murders:
  A neighbor calls 911 at 2:31am, terrified as someone bangs violently on her door. The "problem" leaves after 13 minutes. The incident remains publicly unlinked to the murders but is considered a strange, possibly pertinent precursor.
• Timestamped Quote:
  “Have you told them? Have you asked them what they want or if they need?” (23:08)

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Forensic & Investigative Analysis

Forensic Interviewing of Children (32:00–42:30)

• Importance of Specialized Skills:
  “Forensically interviewing little kids about what they've seen and what information they can provide and how reliable they are and do they know the truth from a lie and are they suggestible? All of those things are critical here.” (04:00)
• Expert Guest: Dr. Rebecca Bailey (J.C. Dugard’s Therapist):
  • Outlines careful protocols for interviewing children, emphasizing non-suggestibility, non-leading questions, and trauma minimization.
  • “You want to be very careful about not suggesting things, about not doing leading questions, taking a kid into repeated interviews, we're very careful about that... The environment where you do the interview is super, super important.” (38:29)
  • Warns about “loyalty binds” if the child knows the perpetrator.
• Memorable Past Case:
  • Banfield recounts the case of AJ Hutto, whose testimonies as a 6–7 year-old led to his mother’s conviction, illustrating the challenges and heartbreak in relying on child witnesses.
  • AJ: “No, sir. No, sir. I won't show you what it looked like when my mommy murdered my sister.” (33:33)

Shell Casings & Crime Scene Details (30:13)

• Insights from Retired FBI Agent Jennifer Coffendoffer:
  • Three 9mm casings found: “There were three found. So you know right away we know there were three bullets. We also know that there was one that was in Monique and two in Dr. Tepe.” (30:13)
  • Casings left behind are “interesting”—maybe the killer was skilled but not a 'professional.'
  • She and Banfield dismiss the idea of a gang hit based on method, noting the quiet, controlled nature and lack of chaos or barking from the family dog.

Online Behavior & Potential Stalking (25:58)

• Coffendoffer reveals high volumes of Google searches for the house’s address before the murders—higher even than after:
  • “Somebody was really looking at all the information related to that address… This is the highest percentage even after the murders.” (26:48)

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The Familiar vs. Stranger Debate (30:26)

• Indicators Pointing to Familiarity:
  • No forced entry, possible code access, dog not barking, awareness of camera locations.
  • “All of that adds up to somebody familiar with them and the property.” (31:34)
• Banfield’s “Boogeyman” Possibility:
  Discusses parallel with infamous true crime cases—Idaho’s Bryan Kohberger (“a madman wandering among us for a month and a half” (23:08)), Amanda Knox, and Elizabeth Smart—reminding listeners that, while rare, stranger-perpetrated murders do happen.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "There are freaking cameras everywhere. The neighbor has like the measles of cameras on their house."
  — Ashleigh Banfield (07:20)

• “No signs of forced entry, but also no weapon to be found. Right. Which of course rules out either parent killing the other… So if you watched or listened to the last episode that I did on this case, you heard about a disturbing call…”
  — Ashleigh Banfield (06:55)

• “Dogs don't bark necessarily at people who are familiar. And we don't have reports of neighbors saying the dog was barking.”
  — Ashleigh Banfield (29:50)

• “If they're sloppy, they're either idiots or they had to make a quick getaway. Does this scream stranger or someone they knew?”
  — Ashleigh Banfield (30:43)

• “It really screams at this point. Somebody known to them, somebody who particularly targeted them…”
  — Jennifer Coffendoffer (30:56)

• “You want to be very careful about not suggesting things, about not doing leading questions… The environment where you do the interview is super, super important.”
  — Dr. Rebecca Bailey (38:29)

• “No, sir. No, sir. I won't show you what it looked like when my mommy murdered my sister.”
  — Young witness AJ Hutto, as recounted by Banfield (33:33)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Case theme & emotional warning: 02:00–04:30
• Neighborhood & house layout: 07:00–09:00
• April 911 call (pre-murders): 10:18–11:19
• December 30 911 calls: 13:01–19:53
• Analysis of window views vs. 911 account: 19:53–22:20, 43:06
• Neighbor’s 911 call re: door incident, Dec 19: 22:40–23:08
• Discussion with Jennifer Coffendoffer (FBI): 25:58–31:48
• Forensic child witness interview (Dr. Bailey): 37:34–43:09
• Detailed walk-through of possible entry, cameras, and alley: 43:09–end

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Closing Thoughts

Banfield synthesizes the episode by reflecting on the dual horror and fascination that such cases provoke—both the emotional devastation for the surviving children and families, and the forensic, procedural puzzles that captivate true crime audiences. With police remaining tight-lipped and community speculation rampant, she concludes that vigilance and careful listening to “the little voices”—both young and overlooked—may prove crucial in solving the crime.

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For ongoing updates, subscribe to "Drop Dead Serious."

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Transcript

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[Ashley Banfield]

Hi everyone, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is drop dead serious. In this episode, we are digging into that heinous double murder in Columbus, Ohio. And honestly, fair warning, there is a lot of information that I'm about to unload on you. So like take a note or get a drink. One of the two. But this mystery is deepening by the minute. Every single day there's a lack of information from the police, but then something that the true crime community finds out that suddenly makes it even weirder, right? It's been nine days, right? I'm recording this on January 8th and wouldn't you know it, another 911 call, not from this house. We've already talked about 911 calls, both from inside this house and from outside the house. People, you know, trying desperately to figure out where the Te family was the morning they were found murdered. But this call is from down the street and it's 11 days before the murders and it's crazy. Someone is smashing and banging on the front door of this poor victim's house and they're calling 911. And guess what? It's right in the middle of the night at the same time that the Tepes were murdered. So I'm going to get into that. But also there's something that's been weighing on me a lot and that is these little kids that were left behind with their parents murdered in the house. So one of them is a one year old. That child is not going to provide a lot of clues, right? Probably inarticulate at this point. Can't speak. But the four year old, the four year old could really help. I know you probably think I'm crazy, but there is forensics that apply to little people. It is a unique art. It is extremely specialized. And forensic interviews of children in crimes has yielded convictions in the past. You're going to see something tonight. Get your Kleenex. It will make you cry. I covered the case, gosh, 15, 20 years ago. It was so sad. This little boy, six years old when his sister was killed. Seven years when he testified against his own mother in court and just broke into tears. Anyway, forensically interviewing little kids about what they've seen and what information they can provide and how reliable they are and do they know the truth from a lie and are they suggestible? All of those things are critical here. And when it comes to the Tepes four year old child, I am fascinated by what might be happening with that child right now. First of all, the child, according to their uncle, the kid's uncle who interviewed with me is in the care of family members. Even the uncle looked after the kids for a little bit. And they are technically the guardians right now. Right? So they have, they control the access to the children, the guardians control the access to the children. And if they don't want the police interviewing the children, the police don't get to interview the children. But if they're okay, and I say children, I mean the four year old, but if they're okay with it, well, that's when the specialty kicks in. Because not your average detective can do this kind of work. They have screwed that up in the past. And, you know, for many, many years, we didn't understand the significance of child forensics when it comes to the psychology of how to interview a kid. Because kids want to please. They just want to. They'll say anything. They want to please you. They also are extremely suggestible. So if you ask a leading question, they'll go with it. You know, true or not. So it is an art. And I'm going to take you through that today with somebody who worked with J.C. dugard. If you're in the true crime community, you know, J.C. dugard, she was snatched from on the way to the bus stop when she was about 11 and spent 19 years in captivity. Rapist impregnated her twice. She, you know, had children by this guy. And this is the psychologist who worked with JC and her family and her kids. And so you're going to hear from her all about the specifics of how to interview and extract information from tiny little people. Again, it's real art. So in addition to that, I'm going to tour you around that neighborhood a little bit because you got to kind of know the lay of the land. Much like in Idaho, we toured that neighborhood to sort of get a feel for what the killer might have done. And it mattered because Coburger was a stalker. Not only was he probably stalking out in the woods behind the house and peering into the windows of Maddie and Kaylee, he was also stalking with the car. Right. Driving around the house. So I'm going to give you a feel for this house on North 4th street in Columbus, Ohio. Not just 8th Ave. And 4th, which is the corner, they're just one house off the corner, but also the back alley. I'm going to drive you down the back alley so that you can see where this killer might have accessed their house. And then I'm going to give you the camera tour because as it turns out, there are freaking cameras everywhere. The neighbor has like the measles of cameras on their house. There's cameras everywhere, every single side of the house. So I'm going to show you all the cameras that if they're working, could have captured this killer. And maybe the police have it already and they're just not showing us. I don't know, but I'm going to do that. And also, there's something that's been bothering me and I wonder if it bothers you, one of the 911 calls. There's a. There's A witness who said, you know, oh, my God, I see a body. It's Spencer and he's fallen off his bed and he's been. It's all bloody. He's in blood. But the police said that the bodies were on the second floor. And if you look at the house, how do you see in the second floor windows? How did this person, this 911 caller, see the bodies? I'm going to tour you around the house. Which windows are on the basement? The basement bedroom. And I'm also going to show you where I think this guy may have gotten up and made the 911 call and been able to appear in a window. But I don't think it's plausible. I think it's also possible the police might have made a mistake in saying the bodies were on the second floor. Either that or the 911 caller might have been inside or got inside. But he also says, I can't get any further or get a better look. So that. Anyway, I'll get into all of that. There's so much to unpack here. I'll break it all down for you piece by piece. But let's start from the beginning. A double murder on a street in Columbus, Ohio. And it's pulled a very quiet block into a national Spotlight. It's North 4th street, you probably know by now. And until last week, North 4th was where Spencer and Monique Tepe lived. Right. They were at number 1411, and they lived with their two little kids. As you probably know by now, Spencer and Mo were shot to death in the early morning hours of December 30th. Those little kids and the family dog, a goldendoodle, left unharmed. Goldendoodle. Remember that? Because guess what else featured a goldendoodle. Yep. 1122 King Road. And the Idaho murders. Get to that in a minute. So this Columbus, Ohio, killing has all the hallmarks of a classic whodunit. No signs of forced entry, but also no weapon to be found. Right. Which of course rules out either parent killing the other, because they would die and the weapon would be there. But if you watched or listened to the last episode that I did on this case, you heard about a disturbing call that came into 911 dispatchers in Columbus, Ohio. And the 911 call pinged at 1411 N. Fourth St. And eight months later, that address would become the scene of a terrifying double murder. So this is a 911 call from eight months before the murder. The caller is identified as a woman only, but nothing more. She's crying. You can hear it plain as day. Sounds a little drunk. And she quickly had second thoughts about bringing the police to 1411 N. Fourth St. So she hung up. And as protocol dictates, the dispatchers called back. They always do. And this was their conversation.

[911 Dispatcher]

Hi, there's 91 1. We just got a hang up call. Is everything okay?

[911 Caller]

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm okay.

[911 Dispatcher]

Are you sure?

[911 Caller]

Yeah, I'm okay. Sorry.

[911 Dispatcher]

Okay, well, it sounds like you're crying. Do you need police, paramedics or anything?

[911 Caller]

No, no, I'm okay, I promise. I'm just emotional. Okay? I don't mean nothing.

[911 Dispatcher]

Well, can. Can I ask, why had you called 911 in the first place? Like, were you having an argument with somebody?

[911 Caller]

Got into it. But I'm okay, I promise.

[911 Dispatcher]

Did anything ever get physical?

[911 Caller]

No.

[911 Dispatcher]

You guys were just arguing. Nobody hit each other. All right, man, well, I have the information here. I can go ahead and tell the officers to cancel. Heading over to your address there at 1411 94th Street?

[Jennifer Coffendoffer]

Yes.

[911 Dispatcher]

If anything changes, call us back.

[911 Caller]

Okay. All right.

[Ashley Banfield]

While we still do not know who that woman was officially, there is at least one person who says he knows who she wasn't. Monique Tepe, Spencer's wife. A relative of the Tepes says that was not Monique on the phone. That's not her voice. It's not the way she talks. I got into it with my man that stood out and he said it's just 100% not her. I think he said a thousand percent not her. But if it was not Mo in the middle of the night inside that home, who was it? What's interesting is that the relative, the kid's uncle, said they were having a party that night, so it must have been a party goer. But now he's walked that back and he says, oh, I checked my daytimer and I got the dates wrong and they weren't having a party that night. So even more mystery. But now I want you to hear the cascade of 911 calls that happened on the morning of December 30th. That's of course, when the bodies were found. When Dr. Teppe didn't show up for work at his dental practice that morning, his boss and his friends couldn't call 911 fast enough. And unlike the mystery caller from back in April, they damn sure wanted the police to act fast and get to that house right away for a welfare check. So first Spencer's boss called the police from Florida, where he was on vacation. You know, the co workers got ahold of their boss and Said, hey, Spencer's not here. So the Florida boss calls police and said that Spencer had been running the dental office for him, and he had such a stellar track record that the boss knew something was wrong when Spencer was just a couple of minutes late for work, according to the workers. So here's the Boss's call to 91 1.

[911 Dispatcher]

I would like to ask for a wellness check on an individual at their home. Well, I'm currently in the state of Florida. I'm on vacation. But this individual, Spencer, works with me, and he did not show up to work this morning, and we cannot get a hold of him or his family.

[911 Caller]

He didn't show up to work?

[911 Dispatcher]

Correct.

[911 Caller]

Okay, so do you have medical problems or.

[911 Dispatcher]

No. And he's been reliable, and we cannot get in touch with him, his wife, his family, anybody that lives in that house.

[911 Caller]

Okay.

[911 Dispatcher]

There's two kids in the home. I'm in Florida. I own the business. I was informed by my employees that he was not at work, and he runs the office. Have you guys received anything else, like calls about him or like a car accident or anything like that?

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[911 Caller]

Sometimes people just don't show up to work. I mean, maybe he's sick. I don't know.

[Ashley Banfield]

Within minutes of the boss's call, a second call comes in to 911 in Columbus, and this time it's another concerned friend who has now started the drive and headed out to the Tepes home himself. By the time he gets there, police say they'd already been there. Right. Cops said they'd rung the bell at the Tepes home. They peeked in a window at the Tepes home, and for reasons unknown, they just left. But now I know the reasons, because they weren't at the Tepe home. Yeah. So now you know another piece of the puzzle. The cops were called out to do the welfare check at the Tepe home, and they went to someone else's home, and whoever it was didn't answer the door, and there was nothing when they peeked in the window, so they left. So no one had looked at this home. No one had peeked in a window at this home. And this guy, this friend, this bewildered friend is on the line with 911 when he gets to the Tepes home. Here's his call.

[911 Caller]

Okay.

[911 Dispatcher]

141 1, 41 1. Yep.

[911 Caller]

Okay. What's the emergency there? Police or medical?

[911 Dispatcher]

Maybe both, I guess. I don't know. I'm kind of doing the wellness had.

[911 Caller]

A call out there. They knocked on the front door and back door multiple times, and there was no answer.

[911 Dispatcher]

Yeah, no answer. I can hear kids inside and I swear I think I heard one yell, but we can't get in at this point. I don't know if I need to break the door in or just get in the house or what.

[911 Caller]

Were you out there when the police was out there?

[911 Dispatcher]

I wasn't. I just got here about five minutes ago.

[911 Caller]

Okay. All right, well, we'll send them back out to you.

[Ashley Banfield]

So, yeah, the guy could hear the kids, he said, and said that one of the kids is yelling. But still at this point, nobody knew that Spencer and Mo were upstairs on the second floor, the police say, near their bed, both of them dead from gunshot wounds. But it wouldn't be long before the horrifying reality of what happened inside that home would be discovered. And that brings me to our final 911 call that morning from a friend who saw the carnage, actually saw it, and actually heard the kids crying. And I'm going to tell you right now, this is super sad, but if you listen closely to this 911 call I'm about to play, you can also hear the kids crying in the background. They're crying loud. They're screaming. I think this person who's calling 911 is outside the home looking in because the sounds of the kids crying certainly don't sound like he's in the home. It sounds like it might be coming through a window. And also he's trying to describe what he's seeing, but he's telling the dispatcher, I can't get any closer, which made me think that he's outside looking in and maybe looking in a window.

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[Ashley Banfield]

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[911 Caller]

1411 North 4th. Okay. 1411 North 4th. We've got several calls on that. What's changed since the last person I talked to?

[911 Dispatcher]

There's a body. There's a body.

[911 Caller]

There's a body inside.

[911 Dispatcher]

Yeah.

[911 Caller]

Okay, hold on one second. Let me get you on the line with the medic. Okay, stay on the line.

[911 Dispatcher]

Oh, my God. Home division of fire. What is the address of your emergency? Okay, 1411. Yeah. All right. The house, apartment. All right. I mean, that's what's going on there. There's a body. Our. Our friend wasn't answering his phone. We just did a wellness check. We just came here and he appears dead. Okay, he's blood. He's laying next to his bed, off of his bed, in his blood. I can't get closer to see more than that. Okay, you can tell he's obviously not breathing or anything. Yeah, yeah.

[Ashley Banfield]

So here's where I'm totally confused. If this guy is on the phone with dispatch saying, I can see Spencer, he's a part off of his bed. He's off of his bed and he's, you know, bloody and there's blood everywhere and he looks like he's, you know, lying in blood. How is he seeing through a second floor window? Because I've looked all around that house in the back. No effing way. You're not scaling to the second floor of the back because it is a flat. It is a flat back, you know, facade that has no sort of finger holds or anything. You could not scale up the back of the house and peer in the back windows, the side windows of the house. Okay, maybe. Maybe he's at a neighbor's house and they've let him in and he can look through the windows. But I don't think so because I think he would have told 911 that I'm at a neighbor's house. Looking across into their windows. And this is what I see. But he doesn't say that. So that leaves the front of the house. And if you look at the front of the house, you have to zoom in to see this. But that railing, you know, that kind of like, flanks the second floor. That is not like a patio. That's not a deck. That's just a decorative railing. That's only like just about a foot from the front, from the the facade of the house. It's just a, you know, Romeo and Juliet kind of thing. You can't really stand on that. You stand on that deck. It's just a railing. So you could get up onto that railing, and then if you got your feet onto the railing and you pulled yourself up to the second floor, you maybe could peer through that second floor window in the front. I don't know if that's the master bedroom where Spencer and Mo slept. That window there. I don't know. I don't know if it's a vaulted ceiling in the front of that house. Like, maybe the living room is in the front with a vaulted ceiling and a big, you know, window up on the second floor. But if that's what this caller did and scaled up to see through the second floor, how is he on his phone? Right? Like, you'd have to use your both hands to hold on for dear life. So this is why I'm so completely confused as to how that caller could see through a window if that's how he saw Spencer and Mo on the second floor. Okay, hopefully we'll get that solved at some point. But there is another piece of the puzzle. On December 19th, that's 11 days before the murders, a neighbor of the tepes also called 911. And guess what time that neighbor called. 911 2, 31am yeah, that's a familiar time, isn't it? Because it's right in the window of when Spencer and Moe might have been killed. That neighbor, she said somebody was smashing and banging on her door and would not leave. I want you to hear her as she talks to 91 1.

[911 Caller]

That's the emergency. Somebody's knocking on my door. Good time picking your babies on my door. Okay, someone's saying in a knock in. Do you know who this is? No. Do you have a description of them? No, I can't see any face. Have you told them? Have you asked them what they want or if they need?

[Ashley Banfield]

So according to the dispatch logs, the quote unquote Problem left at 2:44am which, if you do the math, Means that that poor neighbor of the Tepes was dealing with 13 minutes of, like, a terrifying situation. Her address is said to be just like this. Three minutes walk up the street on. On North 4th. And to be clear, nobody in authority has linked this episode, this weird thing, to these murders 11 days later. @ least they haven't done so publicly. In fact, when it comes to, like, being public about this case, the authorities haven't said much of anything for nine days. And again, I'm recording this on January 8th. So one thing they have done is they've released this, you know, snippet of grainy surveillance video showing what they say is a person of interest in alley behind the victim's house. But they're not saying that the person is a suspect. At least they're not saying they have a suspect. They're not saying that guy's a suspect. They're just saying person of interest. And they're not saying they've got that guy. They still say they don't have a suspect. This feels so much like Idaho. I remember in those weeks after the murders on November 13th. I remember these questions, these exact questions, this exact probing of the police. How can you not have anybody. This was unbelievable, right? Four kids in their beds, stabbed by a madman. He's had to have left some kind of evidence, right? Oh, and originally they said, in Idaho, there's nothing to fear. This was a targeted attack. There's no danger to the community. Jesus fucking Christ, are you joking me? Bryan Kohberger was out at the goddamn stores getting snacks. There was plenty to worry about, right? Plenty of that. Psycho killer, quadruple murderer was wandering among us for a month and a half. So anyway, this feels a little the same. Just that we're at day nine right now and not a word from the police. Nothing more than just this grainy video. I wonder if they're going to ask us about a white Elantra or some car next. But they're certainly not asking for help. Like the police aren't enlisting this crowdsourcing group of us who may have seen her witness something and might be able to add to the puzzle. Maybe they have a reason. I always want to defer, but I do think it's weird. There were no signs of forced entry in this house. There was no murder weapon. Right. But they did find some 9 millimeter shell casings. That's important. Cops can get a lot out of that. So that's why earlier on my NewsNation show, I called up retired FBI agent Jennifer Coffendoffer to Ask a few of these super important. Here's our conversation. You've got some news that you have discovered just by means of Google. What do you.

[Jennifer Coffendoffer]

Have? Well, I tell you what, this was something that I used a lot in the Brian Kohberger, ID4 case. And basically it's looking at trending on Google. In other words, who's being googled? When are they being googled in connection with a particular homicide? So for instance, on the Brian Kohberger, somebody was googling Bryan Kohberger before anybody ever knew that name. And I believe that was Brian Kohberger Googling himself right after those murders up until he was arrested. In this particular situation, I noticed that somebody is googling or 1411 North 4th that you just spoke about many, many times. In fact, peak amount of times even compared to after the murders, before the murders on December 5th. And I found that very interesting.

[Ashley Banfield]

Why? Yeah, to say the very least. Before the murders, a lot of Google. I can only wonder, Jen, if it might have been the parties because they were said to hold a lot of parties. I will say this, the brother in law who spoke with us on this program who said that's not my sister in law's Voice on the 911 call, he did walk back the fact that he there was no party that night. He'd said there was a party that night. He's now checked his calendar and he said it was wrong. But they had parties all the time. Is it possible it could have been all the partygoers googling to find it or are they using the address to.

[Jennifer Coffendoffer]

Google? Well, I thought it might have been but then when I looked back at a party we know about, which is that party back in April with the phone call you spoke about, you don't see that trending. So in other words, it's not the number that you see see, it's the percentage that you see and this is the highest percentage even after the murders. So somebody was really looking at all the information related to that address. In addition, if you look on November 30, Dr. Pepe, he was actually googled a huge percentage as well. All I'm saying is that law enforcement, and I'm sure they're already doing that, is looking at who actually committed those Google searches. Because if somebody assisted in this crime that was more of a professional Ashley, they would want to know everything they could about Dr. Tepe and that address well in.

[Ashley Banfield]

Advance. Yeah, it makes sense. What do you make of this 911 call that we're now hearing down the street? Same time frame, middle of the night, somebody banging and crashing around at their door and terrifying them for 15.

[Jennifer Coffendoffer]

Minutes. Right. Two things. First of all, this area that they're in is not a good area, Ashley especially. It's surrounded by some of the worst gangs and drugs and crime problem in that city. And they're of course trying to revitalize it and get it to be a really nice yuppie neighborhood. So because the modus operandi, if you will, seems to be different. Although that time frame is significant, you can bet law enforcement is going to look at that. I don't think it's going to be.

[Ashley Banfield]

Related. I am wondering, based on what you just said, if it's possible that this was a case of mistaken identity. Some drug gang going to take out vengeance on someone they thought they knew and they got the wrong house. Is that a possibility given how unique this house is and given, you know, how upscale it.

[Jennifer Coffendoffer]

Is? I don't think with the Tepes. And let me say why working gangs for all of those years, this is just not how gangs are operate. They come in force. They come in more than one. If it's an initiation or something like that, they are going to spray and pray with those bullets. They're going to fire and they're going to leave that house a complete mess. You would have heard that dog barking. You see how close those houses are together. Why wasn't Larry barking up a storm with this? Again? I think it's going to be somebody.

[Ashley Banfield]

Familiar. That's a good point. Dogs don't bark necessarily at people who are familiar. And we don't have reports of neighbors saying the dog was barking. We did have that in the Bryan coburger case at 1122 King Road. That's coming up a little bit in the show. We're going to talk about that. But I want to ask you about the 9 millimeter shell casings that were found. What are the police doing with those? Because those can be a wealth of.

[Jennifer Coffendoffer]

Information. They really can be. There were three found. So you know right away we know there were three bullets. We also know that there was one that was in Monique and two in Dr.

[Rocket Money Advertiser (Alternate)]

Tepe.

[Jennifer Coffendoffer]

Right. Because by process of elimination, he was shot, police said, more than once. So that is a wealth of information. I find it very interesting that the casings were left behind. Ashley. That tells me something in and of itself. Maybe this person was very good with guns, but not really a.

[Ashley Banfield]

Professional. Yeah, that's what I always think. If they're sloppy, they're either idiots or they had to make a quick getaway. Does this scream stranger or someone they.

[Jennifer Coffendoffer]

Knew? It really screams at this point. Somebody known to them, somebody who particularly targeted them. And let me say why I say that. First of all, lack of forced entry. The second thing is that code, you know, that's used to get in. Imagine all the people that might have known that code with their wedding being held there, all these parties being held there. Again, we talked about Larry not barking. We talked about the fact that they could go in sort of undetected and seem to be very familiar, Ashley, with all those cameras you talked about last night, all of that adds up to somebody familiar with them and the.

[Ashley Banfield]

Property. Well, Jen, I hope that they're doing a lot more behind the scenes than it appears out here, because it's been crickets from this police department in Columbus. Come back on the show. Thank you for this. I appreciate it.

[Jennifer Coffendoffer]

Jen. Thank you.

[Ashley Banfield]

Ashley. So I mentioned the Tepes children. One is just a baby, a year old, but the other one is four. And I know that is so incredibly young. Right? But four is old enough to remember things and maybe even answer a couple of questions and provide some clues. Police say that both kids woke up crying, but an uncle says he doesn't think that these kids saw their parents being murdered, nor saw the aftermath. Still, there is a lot of information, a lot of clues that that 4 year old might be able to provide if the police are able to interview the child. But how do you do it? How do investigators go about interviewing a 4 year old? Because interviewing a kid that young is not as easy as you might think. I covered a case back in 2007 involving a little seven year old witness named AJ Hutto. And AJ took the stand in the murder trial of his own mommy. And he told the court that his mom had drowned his sister as a punishment. I want you to see how the back and forth went because I felt that it was very uncomfortable. But you will definitely hear what this little boy has to say about what he says he.

[911 Dispatcher]

Witnessed. Who is this? Or what is.

[911 Caller]

This? My.

[Ashley Banfield]

Mama.

[911 Dispatcher]

Okay. And what does she.

[911 Caller]

Do? Killing my.

[Jennifer Coffendoffer]

Sister. How is she doing.

[911 Caller]

That? Aj putting her hand over her.

[911 Dispatcher]

Face. Would.

[Ashley Banfield]

You. Would you show me how she.

[Jennifer Coffendoffer]

Put her hand over your sister's.

[Rebel.com Advertiser]

Face?

[911 Caller]

Huh?

[Ashley Banfield]

No. So you don't want to do.

[911 Caller]

That?

[Ashley Banfield]

No. So, no, sir. No, sir. I won't show you what it looked like when my mommy murdered my sister. I mean, talk about trauma on this little kid. And I had my own feelings about AJ's testimony. He was 6 when the murder happened 7. When he testified, he was a very articulate little boy and so polite. Yes sir. No, shuh. Yes, sure. But he also was very suggestible, you know, as a six and seven year old would be. Any child that age is suggestible. And the chain of custody of AJ wasn't pristine. He was with family members. There were interviews that went on. It wasn't say the best forensic extraction of information from a little boy. And they went with it, they went with everything he said. And some of the things he said didn't line up with like the actual evidence around the house. Right. Like a tree. Said he was in the tree watching and you go in that tree, you can't see the pool. So there were a lot of inconsistencies. But nevertheless, AJ's testimony did help to send his mom, Amanda Lewis, to prison for life with no parole. Incidentally, A.J. hutto, that little sweetheart, would be about 25 years old now. He is married and he's a firefighter. And big thanks to Court TV too, for that clip. Getting accurate forensic information from a young child is an extremely specialized skill and one that many police officers often will cede to experts who know more about the science than they do. I'm going to get into an interview with an expert who knows how they're probably going to do that with this four year old child, if they get to speak to that child. But first, a big thank you for being a part of my true crime community. And a big thank you to my sponsors like Just Thrive. Let's talk about something very important. Your health and your well being. It is no secret if your gut is off. Everything is off. Your digestion, your energy, your mood, even your focus. It all starts in your gut, believe it or not. And when your gut struggles, your whole body feels it. Which is why I trust Just Thrive Probiotic. Just Thrive turns your gut into an antioxidant factory, which means better digestion, healthy immunity, more energy and even weight management. Just Thrive Probiotic comes in capsules or berry flavored gummies. Yum. So there's an option for everybody in the family. And yes, I like the gummies because it's like a little treat that's good for you. So here is my challenge to you. Try Just thrive probiotic for 90 days. It's risk free. Visit justthrivehealth.com banfield and I've got 20% off for you. You're welcome. Just use my promo code and see the difference for yourself or you'll get a full product refund. No questions asked. Take the 90 day Just Thrive Probiotic Challenge today at justthrivehealth.com Fanfield and be the best you with Just.

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[Ashley Banfield]

Cancel okay, back to the case. Earlier on my NewsNation show, Banfield, I talked to Dr. Rebecca Bailey. She's a leading family psychologist and former personal therapist for J.C. dugard. And you'll remember J.C. was abducted by a convicted sex offender while walking to the bus stop when she was 11. She remained missing for more than 18 years, bearing two children by her rapist. So Dr. Bailey has a lot of information when it comes to childhood trauma. And then of course, Jaycee had these two kids, so she knows a heck of a lot about trying to do forensic work when it comes to kids. Here's our conversation. Dr. Rob Bailey, thank you so much for being here. Just walk me through what happens now if you could, with these little tiny witnesses. I'm just going to assume the one year old is out of the picture but that the four year old could be.

[Dr. Rebecca Bailey]

Questioned. What actually happens, what's important that they when they are questioned, and particularly, you're right, the four year old is with somebody who's really well trained in forensics. There are protocols that are used throughout the country that is responsible training which include being very careful about not re traumatizing the child, which as we watched with that one, my heart just went into my feet. Bless that kid's heart. You want to Be very careful about not suggesting things, about not doing leading questions, taking a kid into repeated interviews, we're very careful about that. Also titrating at times, the experience, the environment where you do the interview is super, super important. You don't want it done in the police station. Four year olds, like any other age, also can be very variable in their ability to recall accurately. And then the last thing is that if it is somebody known to the child, you can see a tremendous loyalty bind at times. It's just so heartbreaking, isn't.

[Ashley Banfield]

It? Well, I'll tell you something that AJ Hutto, you didn't even see the most traumatizing moment on the stand when they asked him to identify his mom and he looked around the courtroom and didn't and then suddenly recognized there she was. She'd been away from him, locked up for years, and he just burst into tears. It broke my heart. I covered it live. But I do want to ask you about the suggestibility because one of the things in AJ's case that was questioned by Amanda's defense lawyer was that this child had been put in the back of a car with other family members who hated Amanda and said all sorts of things about Amanda and that that might be the memory of little aj. How does an expert know when you're getting the real witnessed event or just what was suggested to.

[Dr. Rebecca Bailey]

Them? Well, it's challenging. We absolutely know it's challenging. The basic when, when a child is being interviewed in the formal manner, you want to make sure that they are able to give child centered language meaning, that they're using words that sound like a child would use. They're concrete, they're able to stay with the same story without a whole lot of fantastical elaboration to what they're saying. So that's really one of the ways to do a veracity check. It's again, challenging. So, but you're. So you're looking at.

[Ashley Banfield]

The. Yeah, I would imagine that, I was just gonna say, I would imagine that the parents or the adults who are trying to meddle with a child wouldn't think to use four year old lingo. They would just talk in their own mannerisms and that would be absorbed and then regurgitated by the.

[Dr. Rebecca Bailey]

Child. Right, absolutely. And a lot of my work, as you know, has been in the treatment side of it. And even in that side, you have to be really careful with suggestibility because you can change the course of a person's perspective in treatment as well. And sometimes when I know, particularly in a very. Don't Want to get into a tough area. But high conflict divorce, if the language doesn't fit, you know that you're not seeing a authentic expression of what occurred. I will also tell you I have worked on one very tragic case where the mother was murdered, and they haven't pinned. Actually pinned the murder to the person they believe, but because it was a family member, alleged family member. And these children, they're just. The loyalty bind is so deep, you can see it, that they just can't spill the tea. They just can't. And it's not because they're bad people.

[Ashley Banfield]

Hiding. Sure, sure. And sometimes they. They start saying things and then start to realize what they're saying is damaging to their loved one. And then they just like AJ Just said, no, sir. No, sir, I'm not gonna show you what I just so really I could see you. I could see your reaction, and I had the same one. Let me tell you, it was so hard sitting through that trial. Dr. Rebecca Bailey, I'm going to call on you again because I think there's more to this story and I think those kids will play a part. Thank you so much for.

[Dr. Rebecca Bailey]

This. Thank you. Nice to see you again. Take.

[Ashley Banfield]

Care. Okay, now let's shift back to the scene itself. The Tepes house. They lived on north fourth street, but their garage is a detached garage, and it faces the alleyway on the other side facing west. So here's the path on Google Maps from 4th street down 8th Avenue, which is the corner that they kind of live on. They're just two doors down, and it takes you into the alley where somebody was on the move in the pre dawn hours of December 30th. Here's a couple of photos from the other side of the Tepes garage and their backyard. We've got a view that points towards the back of their house, which, as you can see, is surrounded by a wooden fence. You can also see a view pointing from the house to the garage. And we can assume if the killer accessed the house from the alley, it likely would have been through this garage. We can also assume that if police haven't been able to find any solid video from all of the neighbors who live on North 4th street, it is likely that the killer came through this alley. Now, here's what looks like a basement window in the back of the house. It is possible that the killer got in through this window. This is the downstairs bedroom on the other side of that window. But remember, police said that the Tepes were found dead on the second floor of the home. So not in this bedroom. Which makes this so much more curious. Again, how'd that 911 caller see Spencer's body beside his bed? If they were killed on the second floor, it's pretty hard to scale the front of that house and peek inside the second story window. Not impossible, but hard. And hard to hold your phone and be on 911 at the same time. So for what it's worth, the Tepe house does appear to have a ring doorbell cam in the front. And their next door neighbor appears to have loads and loads of cameras all around their house. You can see one on the left side of the front of the house. There's two more above a window on the south side of the house. You can see two more cameras on their garage facing west into the back alley. And I question for a little bit, are those lights or are those cameras? And I've asked a lot of people who think they're cameras. I could be corrected. They could be spotlights. But why would you want the spotlights? I don't know. On the side of the house and into the alley, who knows? But we can only assume that if they're cameras, they could hold a ton of information if the cameras were working and if that material was provided to the police. And local media says there's also a police camera on a utility pole just 150ft away from the house. And you can see it here plain as day, all sorts of angles from that, from that corner. But if the killer was somebody the victims knew, would he slip in like a cat burglar from the back, from the side, out of the view of these cameras? And what if the killer was a complete stranger? We do not like to think about it, but homicidal strangers can and do invade homes at random, like Bryan Kohberger. And there's another famous person that we can always think back to as well, and a famous case, Amanda Knox, because a homicidal stranger did come into her home in Italy and did stab her roommate, Meredith Kercher to death. The DNA proved that it was Rudy Geidy. You know, and while in another case, this person wasn't killed, a stranger, mostly a stranger, came into Elizabeth Smart's home and kidnapped her out of her bed, held her for nine months and raped her for those nine months. That guy was like a random homeless guy that the Smarts thought they'd be nice to and gave him a little handyman work. But effectively he was kind of a stranger. So sometimes it's somebody you know, and sometimes it is just truly the boogeyman. We're going to be watching the story really closely, so make sure you're subscribed on YouTube or your favorite podcast app so that you don't miss a single update. Thank you so much for watching. Thank you so much for listening. I'm Ashlee Banfield, and remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead.