Cold as Ice: Lori Laughs Off Insurance Call After Charles' Death

Summary

Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield Episode: Cold as Ice: Lori Laughs Off Insurance Call After Charles' Death
Release Date: April 15, 2025

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Introduction

In this gripping episode of Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield, host Ashleigh Banfield delves deep into the fifth day of the courtroom drama surrounding the Lori Valo Daybell trial. With over three decades of true crime reporting, Banfield provides an incisive and detailed analysis of the day's proceedings, highlighting pivotal testimonies, unsettling revelations, and the unnerving demeanor of the defendant, Lori Valo.

Trial Updates

The courtroom was bustling on Monday, April 14, 2025, marking the fifth day of the trial. Prominent figures in the case made their presence felt:

• Colby Ryan: Lori's sole surviving son.
• Detective Ray Hermosillo: The lead investigator from the triple murder case in Idaho.
• Detective Eric Wheeler: Known for apprehending Chad Daybell during the initial investigation.

Banfield recounts the tension in the courtroom, especially recalling the moment when Chad Daybell attempted a futile escape, resulting in an "embarrassing chase" that only added to the day's dramatic events.

Medical Evidence

The courtroom's focus sharpened as Dr. Derek Baumgartner, the Maricopa County Medical Examiner, took the stand to discuss the autopsy of Charles Vallow. His testimony unveiled critical details:

• Gunshot Wounds: Two distinct wounds were identified—one in the middle of the chest and another in the stomach.

  • "The chest wound wasn't immediately fatal," Baumgartner explained at [00:50], indicating that Charles might have been alive for up to two minutes post-initial shooting.

• Injuries Analysis:

  • Small scratches on Charles's left hand and blood on his left thumb were noted, with no damage observed on his watch.
  • "There were abrasions and contusions on both of Charles's knees, suggesting they might have occurred around the time of death," Baumgartner testified at [02:15].

• Shooting Dynamics:

  • The entrance wound in the chest suggested stippling, indicating the firearm's muzzle was about four to five feet away.
  • The exit wound on the back shoulder presented as a textbook "shored exit," a phenomenon occurring when the body is pressed against a firm surface during the bullet's exit.
  • "This indicates that Charles was on the ground when the second shot was fired," Baumgartner asserted at [03:05].

Cross-Examination Insights: Lori Valo's cross-examination aimed to challenge Baumgartner's findings by suggesting Charles might have been under the influence of testosterone or human growth hormone. However, Baumgartner clarified that such substances wouldn't typically appear in standard toxicology reports unless specifically tested for, which wasn't the case here.

Social Security & Survivor Benefits

Testimony from Special Agent Mark Saari of the Social Security Administration shed light on financial manipulations post-Charles's death:

• Beneficiary Discrepancies:
  • Initially, survivor benefits totaling $1,859 monthly were allocated to Tyler Ryan, Lori's daughter.
  • A subsequent application by Lori for benefits concerning her adopted son, J.J. Valo, resulted in $1,951 monthly being awarded to both Lori and J.J., despite their cohabitation claim at the time of Charles's death.

Banfield highlights the suspicious timing of these applications, particularly noting Lori's marriage to Chad Daybell shortly after these financial benefits were secured.

Life Insurance Policy Revelations

A pivotal moment in the day's proceedings was the testimony of Robin Scott from Banner Life Insurance. She unveiled shocking developments regarding Charles Vallow's life insurance policy:

• Policy Beneficiary Change:

  • Initially, Lori Valo was the designated beneficiary of a $1 million life insurance policy.
  • Unbeknownst to Lori, Charles altered the beneficiary to his sister, Kay Woodcock, four and a half months prior to his murder.

• Lori's Insurance Claim Attempt:

  • Four days post-murder, Lori contacted Banner Life Insurance to claim the policy, unaware of the beneficiary change.
  • During the call, Lori misrepresented Charles's death as an accident, saying, "It was an accident," at [08:40].
  • Upon follow-up, Lori discovered she was no longer the beneficiary, leading to confusion and suspicion.

This revelation casts a darker shadow over Lori's intentions and financial motivations surrounding Charles's death.

Forensic Evidence

The courtroom was further fortified with forensic testimonies:

• Jeff Moberg, a tool mark analyst, confirmed that the projectiles and casings found at the murder scene originated from Alex Cox's gun, linking him directly to the crime.

Police Interview & Demeanor

Detective Cassandra Inkland provided an unsettling portrayal of Lori's behavior during the initial police interview:

• Unaffected Demeanor: Bodycam footage revealed Lori appearing "unaffected, nonchalant, and chatty," even as she discussed the traumatic events surrounding Charles's death.

• Inconsistent Statements: Lori claimed she hadn't spoken to Charles for 30 days, was considering divorce, and had not witnessed the shooting firsthand, contradicting the severity of the situation.

Cross-Examination Highlights

Lori Valo's cross-examination was marked by attempts to introduce personal narratives not directly pertinent to the case:

• Personal Relationship Struggles: Lori detailed her strained relationship with Charles, emphasizing her desire for divorce and her focus on their children.

• Behavior Under Stress: When questioned about her calmness during the crisis, Lori asserted, "Being ordinary, non-emotional, nonchalant," at [19:53], suggesting a detached demeanor.

• Medication Concerns: Lori admitted she knew her daughter Tyler required panic attack medication but faced legal constraints during the police search, raising questions about her prioritization of her daughter's needs over seeking immediate help.

• Interview Conduct: Judges had to intervene multiple times to curb Lori's attempts to steer the conversation away from evidence-based questioning, highlighting her evasiveness and potential manipulation of information.

Juror Issues

An unexpected twist occurred when the judge addressed misconduct among jurors:

• Juror Conversations: Jurors 15 and 16 were questioned for discussing the case details during a sidebar in the courtroom, which the judge found inappropriate.

• Impact on Impartiality: Despite admitting to discussing aspects like Social Security benefits related to Lori's case, both jurors assured the judge that their personal experiences wouldn't affect their judgment. The judge admonished them to refrain from further discussions, ensuring the integrity of the trial.

Conclusion & Looking Forward

Ayshleigh Banfield encapsulates the day's events by highlighting the accumulation of damning evidence against Lori Valo:

• Calm Reactions: Lori's composed demeanor during testimonies contrasts sharply with the gravity of the evidence presented, painting her as potentially calculated and unemotional.

• Financial Motives: The suspicious change in life insurance beneficiaries coupled with questionable survivor benefits suggest possible financial motivations behind Charles's death.

• Future Proceedings: With the state potentially resting its case imminently, Banfield anticipates a dramatic continuation, hinting at Lori's own strategic moves in her defense. She anticipates a tumultuous journey ahead, indicating that Lori's courtroom performance could significantly influence the trial's outcome.

“Damning evidence, calm reactions, and a million-dollar life insurance policy that suddenly was going to somebody else... we're in for quite a ride.” – Ashleigh Banfield

Final Thoughts

Ashleigh Banfield wraps up the episode by reinforcing the gravity of the case and the intricate web of evidence surrounding Lori Valo. Her thorough analysis provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the trial's complexities, ensuring that even those unfamiliar with the case are well-informed and engaged.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Derek Baumgartner: "The chest wound wasn't immediately fatal." [00:50]
• Lori Valo: "It was an accident." [08:38]
• Ashleigh Banfield: "Damning evidence, calm reactions, and a million-dollar life insurance policy..." [27:35]

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Subscribe to Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield for more in-depth analyses and updates on unfolding true crime cases every Thursday. Engage with Ashleigh by leaving comments and suggestions, ensuring the pursuit of truth remains relentless and thoroughly investigated.

Transcript

[Unknown Speaker]

Foreign.

[Ashley Banfield]

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Drop Dead Serious. I'm Ashley Banfield, and once again, I have a daily update from the courtroom in the Lori Valo Daybell trial. Today marks day five. It is Monday, April 14, 2025. And seated in the gallery of the courtroom today was Colby Ryan. That's Lori's only surviving son, Detective Ray Hermosillo. He was the lead detective from the triple murder case back up in Idaho. And Detective Eric Wheeler, who you might remember as Officer Eric Wheeler back when Chad Daybell was arrested for murder in Idaho. It was Officer Wheeler who put the cuffs on Chad Daybell after the police arrived to search his home and his yard. And that was the day they discovered the bodies of Lori's two kids buried in Chad's yard was also the day that they had to chase after Chad because Chad tried to make a break for it and got like, I don't know, a few inches. It was a pretty embarrassing chase. After the lunch break today, Charles Vallow's sister, Kay Woodcock, and his other sister Susan, were also seated in the gallery. But I want to take you back to the beginning and start from square one today. The first witness of the day was Dr. Derek Baumgartner, the Maricopa county medical examiner. And he told the court about the autopsy of Charles Vallow. Dr. Baumgartner identified two gunshot wounds. One was in the middle of the chest and the other one was in the stomach. And he also observed two small scratches on Charles left hand and some blood on his left thumb, but no damage to the watch that he was wearing. Medical examiner also noted that there were abrasions and contusions, bruises on both of Charles's knees, and suggested that maybe those injuries happened around the time of death, maybe from falling to his knees after he was shot the first time. The entrance to the gunshot wound in the chest showed signs that could indicate stippling, which means that the muzzle of the gun could have been as close as four to five feet away. Dr. Baumgartner also testified that the chest wound wasn't immediately fatal. And this is what's always hard to hear, that Charles Vallow could have been alive for up to two full minutes, maybe even able to speak, maybe even able to move the second gunshot that was the gunshot wound to the stomach, that one was different. Well, while it also showed that the muzzle of the gun was likely 4 to 5ft away, the exit wound, that told a very specific story. That wound was located on his back shoulder. And it looked like something called a shored exit that's something that happens when the body is pressed up against a firm surface as the bullet exits. Dr. Baumgartner described it as a textbook shored wound. And that's important because the state says that Charles was shot the second time while he was lying on the floor. The point being, it is not self defense if the person being shot is already down on the ground and no longer posing a threat. Lori and her brother Alex had sworn up and down that Alex shot Charles in self defense. Well, if he's on the floor, how much of a threat did he really pose? In Laurie's cross examination of Dr. Baumgartner, she seemed to imply that Charles was taking testosterone or human growth hormone. Remember in Lori's opening statement when she alluded to Charles having a temper and having anger issues, sounds like that's where she was going with this. But Dr. Baumgartner said that testosterone and human growth hormone would not typically appear in a toxicology report unless a specific request would was made to test for those substances and that no request like that was ever made.

[Dr. Derek Baumgartner]

There are 16 or 20 substances that are tested, typical drugs of abuse, a limited amount of therapeutic medications and then alcohol, methanol, acetone and isopropanol, I believe.

[Unknown Speaker]

But not generally like someone's regular medications, like for high blood pressure or something like that.

[Dr. Derek Baumgartner]

That would not show up on this test? No.

[Unknown Speaker]

And if someone was taking testosterone, that wouldn't show up on there.

[Dr. Derek Baumgartner]

It would not. No.

[Unknown Speaker]

Human growth hormone would not show up on there?

[Dr. Derek Baumgartner]

No.

[Ashley Banfield]

Dr. Baumgartner had to acknowledge under cross that the abrasions on Charles's hands and knees might have happened before the shooting, possibly from a prior scuffle. But he held fast that the short wound on Charles's back meant that Charles was on the ground when that second shot was fired. Next up on the stand, somebody we heard from a long time ago back in Idaho during Lori's first trial, Special agent Mark Saari from the Social Security Administration. He investigates fraud and waste and abuse related to Social Security benefits. And he explained that survivor benefits are paid to children and in some cases, a surviving spouse, depending on marital status and duration of marriage. In June of 2018, the father of Lori's daughter, Tyler Ryan, had been dead for about two months. And after Joe Ryan's death, Tyler Ryan was getting $1,859 a month in survivor benefits. But the checks for Tylee, those went to Lori, Tyler's mom. A month after Charles died, Lori once again applied for survivor benefits. This time, though, it was for her adopted son, J.J. valo. She told the Social Security Administration that at the time of Charles's death, they had been living together and raising JJ which was a lie. Nevertheless, both JJ and Lori were awarded $1,951 per month in benefits. Agent Mark Sari noted that just a few months after that, Lori married Chad Daybell on November 5, 2019. Next up on the stand, Robin Scott from Banner Life Insurance. She confirmed that Charles Vallow had a one million dollar life insurance policy, initially listing Lori Valow as the beneficiary. But unbeknownst to Lori Valow, her husband Charles had made a change to his policy four and a half months before he was murdered. Charles had changed the beneficiary to his sister, Kay Woodcock. And then the jury heard the phone call that Lori made to Banner Life Insurance Company just four days after Charles was shot. She made the call on July 15, 2019, totally oblivious to the fact that she was no longer getting life insurance money if Charles died. And not only that, she told the agent on the phone that Charles's death was an accident.

[Insurance Agent]

May I have the name of the insured?

[Lori Vallow]

L. Charles Vallow.

[Insurance Agent]

And who am I speaking with?

[Lori Vallow]

This is Lori Valo.

[Insurance Agent]

And your relationship to the insured?

[Lori Vallow]

He's my husband.

[Insurance Agent]

Okay, ma'am, I'm just going to need to ask you a few questions so that I can open the claim, and then I can go over the claim procedure with you and answer any questions that you may have afterwards. And what was the date of Mr. Valo's passing?

[Lori Vallow]

July 11th.

[Insurance Agent]

And what was the cause of his passing?

[Lori Vallow]

Well, he was shot.

[Insurance Agent]

Okay.

[Lori Vallow]

So I don't know how I want to put that.

[Insurance Agent]

Okay. All right. And I hate to ask, but is it. You can just say yes or no. It is it. Was it a homicide?

[Lori Vallow]

No, it was an accident.

[Insurance Agent]

An accident. Okay. Okay. Are you aware of who the primary beneficiary of the policy is?

[Lori Vallow]

It's me.

[Ashley Banfield]

After that call, Lori got an email that she never expected with stunning news from the life insurance company that she was no longer listed on the policy and not entitled to any insurance money. Totally confused, she called the insurance company back, hoping to straighten things out, because surely this must be a mistake. But all the charm in the world could not help Lori Valo out of this one.

[Insurance Agent]

Okay, I do have the policy pulled up. Who am I speaking with?

[Lori Vallow]

This is Lori Valo. I'm returning your call.

[Insurance Agent]

Yeah, okay, no problem. Let me just get all of this information up. Okay, so in your voicemail, you stated that you had something that stated, you are the beneficiary of the policy.

[Lori Vallow]

Right. So I have the original policy where I was the beneficiary, the full beneficiary. And then we changed the policy to where I was 80%. And we added two people, the Porches, who invested in our company for each 10%. And that's the last one I have. That's the last update that I have. So can you tell me when that was changed again? I mean, I know my husband is the agent on record, so he can change it. He's the owner.

[Insurance Agent]

Okay. I don't see anything regarding the second change that you said. I don't. With those percentages, I don't see anything at all with you as 80% at any time.

[Lori Vallow]

But I got something he just told him he was going to do. That's just a handwritten copy I have that I found.

[Insurance Agent]

Okay.

[Lori Vallow]

So.

[Insurance Agent]

Well, I can't. I mean, I really can't give too much information, but I can tell you that the beneficiary was changed in March of this year.

[Lori Vallow]

Okay. Okay. I'm trying to figure out what he was doing since we have five kids and we've been married for 15 years.

[Insurance Agent]

I'm sorry.

[Lori Vallow]

So I know he owes a lot of people money and I didn't. I was worried if I got money, they'd be coming after me for money right now.

[Insurance Agent]

I understand that, but now I will.

[Lori Vallow]

Be with none, so. But did he change it to one person or was it several?

[Insurance Agent]

Unfortunately, I can't release that. I'm sorry.

[Lori Vallow]

Okay. No, I know you can't tell. I'm. We're in the business. My husband is the agent.

[Insurance Agent]

Okay.

[Lori Vallow]

So.

[Insurance Agent]

Got it. Okay.

[Lori Vallow]

I. We deal with this business all the time, so.

[Insurance Agent]

Okay.

[Lori Vallow]

Kind of know how it works. But I'm sure completely surprised.

[Insurance Agent]

Right.

[Lori Vallow]

We have our 7 year old with autism that we adopted together, so I am surprised that he would do that without telling me.

[Insurance Agent]

I'm so sorry.

[Lori Vallow]

So, I mean, there's nothing you can do about that, even though it's community.

[Insurance Agent]

And it says this is a contract that we have with the insured. Exactly. So he's able to make any changes, you know, during the lifetime of the policy.

[Ashley Banfield]

Next up on the stand, a firearms expert. More specifically, a tool mark analyst named Jeff Moberg. He testified that the projectiles and the casings in this murder came from Alex Cox's gun. And the last witness of the day was Detective Cassandra Inkland. She's the police officer who interviewed Lori and her daughter Tyler when they were Taken to the Chandler police station after Charles had been shot. Body cam footage of Lori's interview was played in court, where she let slip that she hadn't spoken to Charles for 30 days and seemed to indicate that they were headed for divorce. Laurie also claimed that she did not even see the shooting happen, but that she'd heard it and left immediately. But she admitted that she did not call 911. Detective Inkland described Lori's demeanor throughout their interview as unaffected, nonchalant, and chatty.

[Lori Vallow]

Well, so we moved into this house three weeks ago because he offered to get me a house here where all my family is. So we were in here, and.

[Unknown Speaker]

So.

[Lori Vallow]

He'S like, we had decided to separate or whatever. So we. He's like, well, I'll pay for a house for you and for JJ and whatever. Because he's all about jj. He's never about Tyler, but he's all about JJ because we adopted him together. He's his great nephew. We adopted him as a baby, so he was like a drug baby and had all these problems. And so we adopted him as baby, and so we been raising him together. And he travels all the time for business, so he's used to just going back and forth. So he's always been like, Monday through Friday. So he came when we first moved in and brought me stuff from Houston, like a U Haul. And then he hasn't been back. But it's all these threats on my phone all the time, you know, like, whatever, all these things. And then he told me what kind of threats? Just, you have to read them to me. But he's always mad at me, right? And he doesn't want a divorce, but I don't like him and don't want to deal with him. So that's just how it is. And I didn't file anything or whatever. And then he filed something against me and said, I'm only gonna get supervised visits because I'm crazy and blah, blah. You know the story. And so I just didn't talk to him for, like, 30 days and let him take care of him and let him see what I've been doing. Because he travels for business, and the business pays for it, Right? So I said, I will book you a hotel nearby. What is he do? He works with teachers in their retirement plans, but he goes to them. He mostly works in California.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay.

[Lori Vallow]

It's kind of his macho attitude. And so he came this morning. I sk. So he got in last night, but.

[Unknown Speaker]

He wasn't at the house last night.

[Lori Vallow]

Yeah, I didn't hear from him, except for he text me and said, I'll be there at 7:30 to pick up J.J. okay.

[Unknown Speaker]

So do you remember about what time he got there?

[Lori Vallow]

He said to be there 7:30, but it was more like 7:40 ish. 7:35. I don't know. Okay. But I remember thinking, looking at the clock and he wasn't there at 7:30. And he's usually Mr. Yeah.

Yes.

You know, he's just been difficult. So.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Lori Vallow]

Anyway, so I got j st ready. I got. And he was like, well. And he's like this about timing. He's like, I'm leaving in 20 minutes because it's like 15 minutes in school. And like, you can't get there early. They don't open the gates until at 8:20 or something like that.

[Ashley Banfield]

And.

[Lori Vallow]

And I said, well, why don't you just go now? I don't want him in the house. I'm like, why don't you just go now and take him to Burger King? Because that's what he likes for breakfast.

[Unknown Speaker]

He has very particular about food.

[Lori Vallow]

He wanted chicken fries for breakfast and the Sprite. And I just get put in. Because if you don't put in, it's like on the floor, screaming, jacking him in, just going.

[Unknown Speaker]

And he's big and he was heavy.

[Lori Vallow]

And hard for me to handle. But anyway, so I said, just go. And so he said, okay. So I gave him a backpack. He got in the car. This is his M.O. right? He always leaves something in the house and comes back. He never leaves the first time. I always expect my husband to come back into the house. Right. So I guess he had left his phone on the counter.

[Unknown Speaker]

So he initially left with the backpack.

[Lori Vallow]

And with JJ So he put them in the car in the driveway, and then he came back in. Right. So I kissed J.J. goodbye. He came back in and his phone was on the counter, and I had his phone. And he was like, give me my phone. And I was like, why don't you show me your text that you've been texting, Blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever. Because he's like acting really weird, like he's plotting something. Why are you even here? Like, what did you come here for? You know, he's been talking to my other brother. And my brother came into town at the same time last night. And I haven't talked to my brother in a while. My other brother. And I was like. And so he was texting him on the phone when he first got to my house. And I'm like, why are you Texting Adam, like, do you even talk to him? Like my other brother.

[Unknown Speaker]

So this morning, he comes back in.

[Lori Vallow]

And he comes back in. I didn't give him his phone. He was screaming at me to give him his phone. He was very worried about whatever was on his text that he did not want me to see. And so I was just holding it there and he was screaming at me, and I was kind of walking towards. Around the house with it, so he couldn't get it. He's, like, reaching for it and stuff like that. Yeah. She was outside. And what happened then?

[Unknown Speaker]

He.

[Lori Vallow]

They got up from that, and my brother had, like, stepped back, I guess. And then Charles was coming with me to that, yelling at me to give him his phone still, because I had it in my hand. It was all really quickly. And then when I went around kind of in the circle, then my brother was there.

[Unknown Speaker]

When you said he. When you were going around and he was coming at you with the bat, how was he holding the bat?

[Lori Vallow]

Just like that. Like, backwards, almost in one arm.

[Unknown Speaker]

Like, he was swinging, like, swinging it backwards. He would have been like.

[Lori Vallow]

Like he would have swung it backwards at me, not frontwards. Okay, I gotta get to the kids. And so I just went outside and to see if they were in there.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay.

[Lori Vallow]

I didn't want them coming back in the house when all that was going on and. And got JJ in the car, and he was trying to come in, and Tyler was, like, looking at me with, like, the crazy eyes, like, what just happened? And I told her to get in the car and take JJ's school, and I just left.

[Unknown Speaker]

When you came back in and you saw him on the ground, where was your brother? Did you see him where he was at?

[Lori Vallow]

Yeah, he was right in front of him.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay.

[Lori Vallow]

Yeah. He was a professional baseball player. Okay. So it wasn't a good idea to.

[Unknown Speaker]

Try to get out of that. Probably not. The.

[Lori Vallow]

I mean, he played semi pro.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Lori Vallow]

When he was young, but.

[Insurance Agent]

Yeah.

[Lori Vallow]

And then I was kind of turned around and we were all right there in that room, except for the kids. Had been outside by that time. And I heard the gunshot in.

[Unknown Speaker]

So you heard the shot?

Mm.

Did you actually see. See the shot or did you just hear it?

[Lori Vallow]

I had gone around to the kitchen to get away from him and so back around.

[Unknown Speaker]

So I don't know if he went in the house.

I didn't. So I'm at a little bit of a disadvantage.

Yeah.

[Lori Vallow]

So I didn't see. When I didn't see the shot, I heard it, and then I Came back around and I saw that he was on the ground. Okay.

[Ashley Banfield]

When it came time for cross examination, Lori seemed to be on a mission to get statements in front of the jury that were not supposed to be in front of the jury.

[Unknown Speaker]

At some point when you came over to talk to me and my daughter and you talked about my demeanor. Right. Being ordinary. Is that what you said.

Being ordinary?

You said ordinary, non emotional, Nonchalant.

Correct.

What's your definition of nonchalant?

Pretty almost detached. Just calm. Doesn't really matter. Kind of not extraordinary.

Do you have a degree in psychology?

I do not.

Do you know what a person should act like if they're in a stressful situation?

So there isn't one way to act. There's just behavior that is striking.

Striking behavior.

Correct.

[Lori Vallow]

Okay.

[Unknown Speaker]

At some point when you came over to talk to me and my daughter, did we express to you that she needed her medications that were in the house?

I believe so. And that.

And what did you instruct us about?

At one point, I advised the detectives that were inside of that request, but that a search warrant was happening inside the house. So we would do our best to facilitate people getting things from the house.

But you were aware that she needed her panic attack medicine as to testifying.

And asked an answer.

[Judge]

Sustained. You can ask her if she was aware that she knew that medication.

[Unknown Speaker]

You were aware that she needed her medication?

I was aware you made a request for her medication and it would have been.

Non emotional. If I was trying to be calm for my daughter.

I object to speculation.

[Judge]

Sustain.

[Unknown Speaker]

Did you notify me that I'm going to give you a death notification? I don't want to do it in front of your daughter. What did you say?

It would be slightly redundant to tell you I was doing a death notification if I didn't want to tell you in front of your daughter.

Did you ask Tyler if she wanted to be interviewed?

I would object to hearsay.

[Judge]

Well, the question. I'll overrule the objection. The question is, did you ask Tyler yes or no?

[Unknown Speaker]

I did at one point ask if I could speak with her.

Did either of us know that we were being videotaped?

I don't know.

Were we told that we were being videotaped?

No.

At that time, when we entered into the rooms, you left Tyler in there alone and came in to interview me. Is that correct?

Correct.

And how long was that interview that you and I had?

I think it's a. It's about 35, 40 minutes, maybe a little longer.

And so that whole time Tyler was in the Room by herself.

Correct.

Not knowing she was being videoed? Correct.

I don't know if she knew or not.

And without her medication, Correct.

I don't know, but I believe so.

And I was worried about her, if you recall. Is that correct?

Object to relevance.

With your experience in interviewing, forensically interviewing children, did you think Tyler's demeanor was genuine that day?

I'm gonna object to speculation.

[Judge]

Sustained.

[Unknown Speaker]

Did you have a reason to think that she might be making something up?

We're gonna object again. Speculation.

[Judge]

Sustained.

[Unknown Speaker]

Did you learn during Tyler's interview.

I have Jeff right there to hear say.

[Judge]

Sustainability.

[Unknown Speaker]

Did you learn during my interview that Tyler came in with the bat?

I did.

And was that confirmed by Tyler?

I'm going to object, your honor. Pre trial ruling. Hearsay.

[Judge]

Sustained.

[Unknown Speaker]

Your honor, can we have a sidebar?

[Judge]

No, that's hearsay.

[Ashley Banfield]

The day ended before Laurie could finish her cross examination. So they should pick up where they left off first thing in the morning. So there you have it. Damning evidence, calm reactions, and a million dollar life insurance policy that suddenly was going to somebody else. And through it all, Lori Valo stayed cool as ever, even when confronted with testimony that painted her as calculated and unbothered and in some moments, shockingly detached. Also today, couple weird things. The judge questioned two of the jurors in this case because somebody reported hearing them talking about the case during a bar. So here's what the judge said, quote, juror number 15, when we did a sidebar earlier and there was white noise playing during the testimony of the investigator with the Social Security administration, did you and juror 16 start talking about something to do with the witness and the trial? And juror 15 answered, quote, yes, okay. What I did was I told Juror 16, okay. I said I had problems with Social Security. And juror 16 responded to me that, yeah, Lori's Social Security check seemed high. And then I told him how I was having issues with Social Security because my wife died and that I was going to miss my appointment to get everything set up because I had jury duty. The judge then asked Juror 15 if his experience with the Social Security office would impact his ability to remain fair and impartial in this case. And juror 15 said no. And then the judge reminded juror 15 not to talk about the case with any other jurors. And then juror 15 was sent out, and juror 16 was called in. And the judge asked the same question to Juror 16 if he and his neighbor, Juror 15, had chatted about the case during a sidebar. And juror 16 responded and said, quote, yes. Juror 15 was telling me that he had Social Security appointments that kept getting rescheduled and that he was having a hard time dealing with that office. The judge then asked, did you make any comment about the amount of Social Security in this case? And he responded, yeah, I did. I said, yeah. Wow, that's a really high amount. The judge then reminded juror 16 not to talk about the case with any other jurors and nothing else happened and both jurors will remain on the panel in this case. The state said, by the way, that it is entirely possible that they're going to rest their case this week. And if that happens, then it is time for the Lori show, or should I say the Lor Circus, because nobody knows what kind of a case Lori Valo plans to put on for her defense. But if her performance thus far in court is any indication, I think we're in for quite a ride.

[Dr. Derek Baumgartner]

Ashley.

[Ashley Banfield]

I'm Ashley Banfield, everyone. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, like, subscribe, drop me a comment. I always like to hear from you and I always like to know what you're thinking. And I like your suggestions, too. I take them to heart. And always remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.