DISTURBING: Family Says Jilted Surgeon Threatened To Kill Ex-Wife Before Brutal Ohio Double Murders

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Drop Dead Serious with Ashleigh Banfield

Episode: DISTURBING: Family Says Jilted Surgeon Threatened To Kill Ex-Wife Before Brutal Ohio Double Murders
Date: January 14, 2026
Host: Ashleigh Banfield

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Ashleigh Banfield examines the shocking double murder of Monique Tepe and her husband Spencer Tepe in Columbus, Ohio—a case now focused on Monique's ex-husband, Dr. Michael McKee, a well-regarded vascular surgeon recently arrested for the crime. Drawing from decades of true crime reporting, Banfield delves beyond the headlines, exploring family secrets, ignored red flags, and the growing body of circumstantial and digital evidence. The episode includes interviews with true crime podcaster Gigi McKelvey, criminologist Dr. Laura Pettler, and retired homicide detective Phil Waters, offering expert insights into the investigation, psychological dynamics, and the search for motive.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background on the Double Murder and Suspect

• Monique Tepe and her husband Spencer were found murdered in their own home; their children were present but unharmed.
• For 11 days, police had no suspect—then Monique's ex-husband, Dr. Michael McKee, was arrested.
• Red Flag: Their marriage was quick and ended almost as quickly, a decade ago. Despite his professional record being spotless, disturbing reports are now emerging about the relationship.
  (03:35)

2. Family Reveals History of Threats and Abuse

• Banfield reports that Monique's family deliberately withheld suspicions early on to avoid jeopardizing the investigation, but are now sharing alarming stories:
  • Dr. McKee allegedly threatened Monique's life multiple times during their marriage.
  • He was emotionally abusive, with trauma still affecting Monique years later.
• Quote:
  • “She was terrified because he had threatened her life on multiple occasions when they were married.” — Rob Mizla (Monique’s brother-in-law) (26:02)
  • “She wasn’t shy about talking… how emotionally abusive he was to her. It affected her to this day.” — Rob Mizla (26:18)

3. Hints in Wedding Vows and Emotional Aftermath

• Banfield highlights Monique’s wedding vows to Spencer, finding them “curious” and emotional in hindsight—especially as Monique referenced "wrong relationships" and "waterfalls of tears" before finding happiness.
• Quote:
  • “Countless bad Bumble dates, wrong relationships and waterfalls of tears. But it was worth every cringing second because it led me to you.” — Monique Tepe (Wedding Vows, played at (27:16))
• Banfield and expert Dr. Laura Pettler interpret these words and tears as possible allusions to trauma left by her previous marriage.

4. Expert Insights: Profiling the Suspect and Victims

• Gigi McKelvey (Pretty Lies & Alibis podcast) discusses the unusual nature of an ex-spouse allegedly committing murder so many years after a short marriage:
  • Quote:
    • "Jealousy and rage is such a powerful emotion… Did he just never get over her?" (21:09)
  • McKee had no apparent social or dating life post-divorce, and almost no online presence.
  • Multiple out-of-state medical licenses—explained as routine for professionals, not necessarily suspicious.
• Dr. Laura Pettler (forensic criminologist):
  • Death threats in intimate partner relationships are “a huge warning sign” and strongly correlate with future violence.
  • Quote:
    • "Murder is conflict resolution for the offender… It resolves an internal conflict that's going on inside the offender." (31:14)
  • Emotional growth and gratitude in Monique’s vows likely point to overcoming deep trauma.

5. The Digital and Investigative Trail

• Banfield stresses how, in modern investigations, long drives leave heavy digital footprints:
  • Toll booths, license plate readers, credit cards, even cell phone data can reconstruct the trip.
  • Long road trips (Chicago/Rockford to Columbus—12-14 hours roundtrip) mean plenty of surveillance.
  • She draws parallels to other famous cases (e.g., Brian Kohberger, Melanie McGuire, Jodi Arias), emphasizing how killers are often undone by overlooked digital evidence (33:32).

6. Law Enforcement and Behavioral Analysis

• Phil Waters (retired homicide detective):
  • Criminals believe darkness or avoidance tactics will conceal them, but digital evidence is pervasive.
  • Routes taken and routes avoided in travel can reveal intent to avoid detection and are critical in homicide investigations.
  • The psychology of the drive home: murderers may dissociate, feel powerful, rationalize their actions, but the evidence often catches up with them.
  • Quote:
    • “It's the same kind of high that Tom Cruise gets when he launches off a mountainside on a motorcycle. It is the adrenaline rush, the dopamine, everything that happens in a moment of thrill, that's what he's experiencing.” (44:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the marriage’s warning signs:
  “No one at the wedding would have seen this… it wouldn't have stood out… But Monique’s wedding vows were very, very curious in retrospect.”
  — Ashleigh Banfield (05:19)

• On the investigation’s digital trail:
  “Navigation apps record every turn that we make. Google Maps leaves a popcorn trail wherever you go. … Toll booths, license plate readers, gas stations—they all have eyes.”
  — Ashleigh Banfield (33:32)

• On what drives offenders:
  “Murder is conflict resolution for the offender. … It resolves an internal conflict… That’s how they continue to relocate that emotional, cathartic execution over and over and over again.”
  — Dr. Laura Pettler (31:14)

• On the killer’s psychology during the drive home:
  “He is further justifying everything that… he did if in fact it was him. And I can’t imagine how hard he would crash…”
  — Ashleigh Banfield (45:29)

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Important Timestamps

• [03:35] — Introduction of the key players and puzzling aspects of the murder
• [11:14] — Family confirms prior threats toward Monique by Dr. McKee
• [21:03] — Gigi McKelvey’s insights into McKee’s profile, possible motives
• [26:02] — Rob Mizla reveals emotional abuse and life threats
• [27:16] — Monique's emotional wedding vows to her second husband
• [28:47] — Dr. Laura Pettler on threats as warning signs in domestic homicide
• [31:14] — Criminological interpretation of murder as conflict resolution
• [33:32] — Banfield’s rundown of the investigatory digital trail
• [40:22] — Phil Waters on suspects’ sense of invisibility during crimes
• [44:05] — Behavioral patterns post-crime and the mental state of murderers

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Listener Engagement & Final Thoughts

• Banfield encourages listeners to share their theories and reactions, emphasizing the community’s role in developing new angles for investigation.
• The story is still unfolding as more digital and forensic evidence comes to light. Banfield promises follow-up episodes focused on emerging investigations, including analysis of physical, digital, and psychological clues.

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Tone & Style:
Banfield maintains a deeply engaged, irreverent yet analytical approach—balancing empathy for victims with incisive, sometimes personal, investigative commentary. The episode mixes emotional storytelling, factual breakdowns, and expert insight, making the podcast approachable but thorough for true crime enthusiasts.

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Suggested Next Episode Themes:

• Deeper dive into digital forensics and evidence in the case
• The psychological legacy of intimate partner violence
• Jury perceptions in cases involving professionals as defendants

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[C]

Hey everyone, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is drop dead Serious. And I am obsessed with the story in Columbus, Ohio and I think you are too. This is just so mysterious. Even though we have an arrest, I have so many questions and I'm also running through everything I've learned over decades of crime reporting as to what the police are doing right now to make their case against Dr. Michael McKee. You know by now if you've been following all my podcasts, that this is Monique Tepe's ex husband. Monique Tepe and her husband Spencer were violently murdered in their own home with their children just down the hall. And for 11 days we had no idea who did it. And then suddenly her ex husband is arrested. And by the way, I mean blink and you miss it. Marriage, right? We all know this was a very quick marriage. It was a decade ago. This was a shock. And so we really decided to dig deep into Dr. Michael McKee's. Background. We all know that he is this, like, vascular surgeon, which means he's at the top of the heap. I mean, it takes about 15 years to become the vascular surgeon that he is practicing where he was. And it just defies all logic for everybody. Right. And I know you have a lot of questions about the crime scene. How did he get in if it's him? All of that. I'm going to get to that in, in just a minute. But the big question I had today was, was what's his background? Because we did a criminal background check on this guy and he's spotless. So I'm not surprised. You can't have a criminal background and be a surgeon, but spotless, I mean, nothing. So the mystery has been, well, the divorce papers just said that they weren't compatible, but how incompatible? Like, what's the story there? It's not in black and white, but the family is now opening the floodgates. They're, they are telling a lot more secrets about what Monique was going through while she was married and then separated from Dr. Michael McKee. And it's starting to make a little bit more sense. I don't have the full picture, but I do have some because Rob Misla, who is a brother in law of Monique and Spencer's, he is talking about stuff he would not say before I interviewed him a week ago. And I asked specifically, is there anybody who you can imagine would. Would do this, would want this couple dead? And he said, nothing. You know, nothing I can say, you know, publicly or. And the way he worded it seemed as though, no, nobody at all. But when I go back and I really look into the wording, it's almost like I can't really say out loud some stuff I'm thinking, but he did not let on or indicate that there was anybody that stood out as a potential suspect. And that was by design because the TEPE extended family and Monique's extended family, they did not want to jeopardize the investigation. So they agreed that they were going to keep quiet about a guy they had big suspicions about, a guy who now, since he's locked up, they're saying some things about that marriage. Then there's another red flag. No one at the wedding would have seen this. Nobody who watched the wedding video would have noticed. It wouldn't have stood out as, oh, dear God, I sense a problem. But Monique and Spencer read wedding vows to each other, as many will do. And Monique's wedding vows were very, very curious. In retrospect, she referenced waterfalls of tears in her past. And she referenced wrong relationships leading up to this joyous moment. But it wasn't so much even those words. It was her reaction when she read that. I'm going to show all that to you as well. I, I think it is so telling and heartbreaking when I look at it because I almost could see PTSD now, knowing that the possibility exists that it is her ex husband who murdered her because he's allegedly the killer and he's charged with the aggravated murders of both of them. I almost can see the PTSD as she's reading those vows to the man she loves, Spencer Tepe. And it is. You'll see it in a moment. I want you to say in the comments whether you agree with me, tell me if I'm crazy, but I do want to hear your emotions about this because I find it very emotional. So I also am going to break down something else in this episode and it is the unbelievable amount of evidence that you can extract from a drive. And I don't mean a hard drive, I mean a road trip. If Michael McKee killed Spencer and Mo. And by the way, for those of you who have complained that I use the name Mo for Monique, that's how she refers to herself. That's how her family and friends referred to her. That was how she was commonly referred to as Mo Tepe. So I'm not disrespecting her at all. I'm using the words, the name that she actually used. But if Michael McKee killed Mo and her husband Spencer, that was a hell of a drive, like a hell of a long road trip. If he left Rockford, Illinois, where he works, which I don't suspect, or if he left from Chicago, where he lives 80 miles between those two places, it is upwards of 12 to 14 hours there and back to drive down to Columbus, Ohio. That's a long time to be on the road thinking, right? It's also a long time to be on highways that have gas stations with cameras and toll booths that register your toll tag, if you've got one, and take pictures of your car and license plate readers that are everywhere, surveillance cameras that are everywhere, Google Maps that records your routes, maybe Waze even, because I use Waze all the time. Everybody has to take a bathroom break at some point and get gas, maybe even a little food in all that time. And you can't do that without stopping somewhere. And those somewheres all have cameras. Maybe you decided to use cash so that you wouldn't be tracked. Doesn't matter. You're on camera. Smile if you pay anything anywhere. You're on camera at those gas stations and so is your vehicle outside. Right. Maybe you used your credit card, make it even more easy. All those transactions, they get them so fast, you know, quick subpoenas by the police and they can see your little financial popcorn trail. So there are a lot of ways that investigators could have tracked this very long route. And by the way, there's more routes than one to get from Chicago to Columbus or Rockford to Columbus. There are a lot of routes like three that I highlighted and roots avoided. That's also evidence, routes you choose not to take. So let's talk a little bit more now. I'm going to go way more into the drive in a minute with experts who know a lot more about this than I do. But let's talk a little bit about those red flags that may have been ignored because juries need evidence, but they, they're not guaranteed a motive. Right. Prosecutors do not have to prove motive to prove a case, and they will tell you that in openings and closings. But juries feel weird if they don't get it. And it's just the natural human tendency to ask, but why? That's motive. Right. The number one question we have is like, why? Why would this happen? So without having to prove motive, juries want it. So prosecutors work to get some of that. And quite frankly, Monique Tepe's short first marriage to Dr. Michael McKee might just hold the clues. Sources were hinting that it was an acrimonious marriage. Things were bad, but now family is confirming it. He made threats on her life. I'm going to let the family members say that for themselves and you're going to hear it. I'm going to let the family members say that for themselves and you're going to hear it for yourself. But I spoke with Angenette Levy on my podcast just last episode, and she got sources who said Mo wanted out of that marriage. He did not. So it was a one way rejection. And that's why I tend to use the word jilted. You know, she was the one who filed for divorce. She was the one who bought the wedding ring and the engagement ring. That's in the documents. Her divorce documents say I paid for it right in the separation of property. So what we're really going to want to drill down on eventually is whether there was violence during this marriage, after this marriage. Was there stalking during the separation, after the marriage? Cyber stalking, Actual stalking.

[A]

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[D]

This.

[B]

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[C]

There's a lot that you know will help prosecutors get to motive if they can get evidence of that. And I don't think it's going to be tough given what you're going to hear a little bit later in this podcast what the family members are saying about that toxic relationship with Dr. McKee. I have a ton for you in this episode and I do want you to comment, comment along and let me know your thoughts on this case. I want to know your theories because honest to God, you guys have given me theories before and I have done full episodes on them. You have given me story ideas that I didn't know about and I have done full episodes on that. So please jump in there and let me know when you don't like something I'm doing. Let me know when you do and do tell me what your thoughts are on this particular case. There are a million theories, right? Why? How? How'd you get into the house, all of that and I'm going to go over your top theories in the next episode. So, yeah, you could be a part of this. And I really love it when you are. Let me start right at the beginning because prisons and jails are full of people whose pathways are absolutely seemed destined from the moment they were born. Am I right? The tragic childhoods prepared them for tragic lives. But then there's Michael McKee, accomplished and affluent, a vascular surgeon, highly trained and now charged with two counts of aggravated murder for his ex wife and her second husband, Spencer Tepe, as of this recording, and it is January 13th. It happened two weeks ago today, those murders. So in the world of true crime solving, this is pretty quick. Those cops did a great job, right? But I want to tell you something about Michael McKee's background. If you are the parent of a standout student who aces every test and collects gold stars by the pound, cover your ears because that was Michael David McKee before he was Dr. McKee. He was originally of Zanesville, Ohio. Young Michael made the local paper, the Zanesville Times Recorder. That was way back when he was in first grade and he won honorable mention in a poster contest that was sponsored by the state. So he got a really good start off to the races. Then by age 13, he made the papers again because he wowed a state science fair and did a great project. Made the papers. The year after that, it happened again. He made the front page because he won a spelling bee. So science and art and spelling. I mean, he ran the gamut of being a winner in all of those categories. And the winning word that Michael McKee spelled for the spelling bee that launched him onto the front page was siege. And Michael McKee said, quote, I was a little nervous right up until the end. And the accolades just kept coming. In High School, Dr. Michael McKee, as a high schooler was fifth in his class, a national Merit scholar and a varsity football player. So safe to say prison was nowhere on the horizon for this guy. He was destined for great things. McKee studied medicine. I told you, at Ohio State University. And again, shocker, that's where he made the honor roll yet again. And you know who else went to Ohio State? McKee's future wife, Monique, and Mo's second husband, Spencer. Spencer Tepe. And again, we do not know if these three ever converged. We don't know how Dr. McKee and Monique even met or hooked up or fell in love or where that happened. But we do know that In August of 2015, just one year after McKee got his medical license, Monique and McKee were married. So as I'VE reported before. They separated just seven months later. They divorced 15 months later. Dr. McKee would go on to be licensed in California, in Maryland, in Virginia, in Nevada. And in 2024 he picked up another license, got licensed in Illinois and he signed on with a hospital in where? Rockford, Illinois. You know, the place where they arrested him. I should be real, real clear here that since his arrest, we went in to check his profile at his workplace and we discovered that his name has been scrubbed from the website like he never even happened. There's no mention of Dr. McKee anywhere at his workplace in Rockford, Illinois. So I can imagine, I can only imagine you worked at a child medical center, what it's been like for them, these co workers. You know, we all hold doctors to a very high standard right up there with judges. Right. It's the reason judges sit higher than us in the courtroom. They're on a dais because they are higher than us in society and so are doctors. They take a pledge, do no harm. Right? We trust doctors when we see them on tv. We trust the products that they might be, you know, endorsing. And so I'm sure that that medical practice, that hospital where he was working is devastated that this is a stain, you know, on them. It's really hard to process that for them, I'm sure. So yeah, I can understand why they wiped him off the website right away. So with all that, what allegedly led a lifelong high achiever with the world at his feet to drive hundreds of miles and allegedly shoot two people in cold blood, shoot them dead? Well, for one thing, a family member of Manikin, Spencer Tepe is now breaking his silence and opening the floodgates as to just how toxic the Monique's marriage to Dr. Michael McKee really was. And I'm gonna have his interview for you in just a moment. But first, huge thank you to you for being a part of this true crime community. Especially as this story has broken. You have all come together. I have read your comments, I've appreciated everything you've said. Also wanna thank my sponsors because they make this happen as well. Like just thrive. I wanna talk about something really important for just a quick second. Your health and your well being. If you're watching true crime, take care of yourself as well. 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Use Banfield as the promo code and be the best you with Just Thrive. Okay, back to the case. I had a long conversation with Gigi McKelvey. She's the host of the podcast Pretty Lies and Alibis. She has been digging and digging on this story from the very start and we talked on my News Nation show. Here's a look at our conversation. All right, so Gigi, thanks for being on. First of all, your reaction as a true crime podcaster to the arrest of this vascular surgeon.

[E]

I tell you, I didn't have him on my radar as somebody who would possibly do this because the length of time that they were together versus the eight plus years they've been apart, I thought, well, you know, a lot of times past he's moved on. But you know, jealousy and rage is such a powerful emotion and I think it trumps common sense or all of the straight A's or however many times you've been in the newspaper or the fact that you're a vascular surgeon. I think that over the past eight years it's going to be interesting to see his online activity. How often was he stalking them? Was he seeing her? Public profiles of a very happy marriage. Then come the children and think, that should have been me. That's all I got. Ashley, I can't, I can't think of any other reason why a man who easily could find a woman who wants to marry a vascular surgeon and live in a nice place like that, but seems like he never married again and makes me wonder, did he just never get over her?

[C]

And, and we have been digging for some kind of a presence for this guy, a dating profile, any girlfriends, any social media, and we're coming up pretty empty handed. I'm wondering what you're finding.

[E]

Finding the same thing, which is nothing. He has a very. I mean, even his medical pages, most of the times they'll have a photo of the doctor. None of him. I have found nothing online as far as social profiles. I've went to the way back machine to look back for 10 years and there's just nothing other than, you know, the, the, the mention of, well, he got this in high school. Nobody cares about high school or how smart you were. You murdered an. An innocent couple with two small kids. It kind of all goes out the window. Clearly smart in the medical field, but not smart in the true crime world. He must not watch Banfield because he doesn't seem to understand you get caught.

[C]

And of course innocent until proven guilty. So all of it allegations until a jury or he himself might plead guilty. That's. We're getting over our skis there though. But you know, I interviewed a neighbor of his from that beautiful high rise, she said building full of professionals, she knew him. She used to say hi to him all the time. They spoke at the barbecue on the roof and the pool area on the roof. Said he was very nice. But apart from that, I'm not seeing anyone come out in support of Dr. McKee. No friends, no family, but friends. For one person who said this was all very difficult, he was both friend and family. And he since deleted that post.

[E]

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. I've noticed too. I've looked everywhere to see if anybody who knew him has come out and said, hey, we're shocked. You know, we had no idea other than the neighbor, nothing. Everybody is very silent. You know, on the other hand, the tepees just wonderful things said about them. But, you know, people definitely can live these secret double lives behind closed doors. And I have a feeling, you know, allegedly that's what happened here is over time he just got more and more upset and just a tragic case. But no, I have found nothing on this guy. It's almost like he doesn't exist online.

[C]

Now what about the medical licenses? Because we haven't seen him practicing in California. We certainly see the practice. It's a children's group in Illinois. But, you know, he's got multiple states, medical licenses in multiple states. Do you read anything into that?

[E]

No, and that's really, that's not uncommon with physicians. It is a long, lengthy process to get your license in any state. So when you get those licenses, you tend to keep them up. So, you know, if he did his residency in another state from where he went to school, or his fellowship in another state, he would get those licenses and likely maintain them. Or he could have got them just to have in his back pocket in case he got a wild hair one day and said, I want to move to California or I want to move to here or there. There's a lot of reasons. It's not really anything suspicious as far as that goes.

[C]

Gigi McKelvey, true. You know, you're just one of the best and I've got you on speed dial. So thank you for this. Pretty Liz and Alibi's host. Hope you'll be back.

[E]

Thanks, Ashley.

[C]

Back when police only had a quote unquote person of interest in the Tepe murders before they had a suspect in custody, a relative of Monique and Spencer Tepe told us that he knew of nobody who might want this couple dead. In hindsight though, there are good reasons that Spencer Tepe's brother in law might not want to have spooked Dr. Michael McKee by saying something on TV to me. But with Monique's ex behind bars now he can freely speak his mind and he is doing just that. He told NBC News that there were red flags galore in Dr. McKee's relationship with Monique.

[D]

She was terrified because he had threatened her life on multiple occasions when they were married.

[C]

Rob Mizla sharing with NBC News what he says Monique Tepe told him about her brief and troubled marriage to McKee. His account backed up by a second family member.

[D]

She wasn't shy about talking to people about traumatic experiences that she had with her ex and just how emotionally abusive he was to her. It affected her to this day.

[C]

Do you know if the abuse was ever physical?

[D]

I don't. If any of us had known that these threats were actually grounded in possibility, we all would have acted differently.

[C]

Again, in hindsight, it seems as if Motepi herself might have actually alluded to her long ago lightning quick marriage to Dr. McKee when she herself was getting married to her second husband. Spencer Tepe, I want you to listen to her wedding vows carefully, like really carefully, word for word and specifically how she references wrong relationships. Take a listen, Spencer. What can I say? From day one, I knew you were something special. I had quite a journey to get to you. Countless bad bumble dates, wrong relationships and waterfalls of tears. But it was worth every cringing second.

[A]

Because it led me to you. Throughout all of this, I knew that God was gonna guiding me to my person and that when I met him it would be the most magical thing ever. And boy, is that an understatement.

[C]

I finally found my lobster and it honestly couldn't be a person with a more beautiful heart. I will love you forever.

[A]

And I'm so lucky to be Mrs. Teppe.

[C]

The Teppies got married in that video. In these photographs you can see in the very same house where they were murdered. And earlier on my NewsNation show, I talked to Dr. Laura Pettler, a forensic criminologist who's been writing about this very case. Laura, thank you so much for being on. I really appreciate this. Look, I spoke with the Tepes brother in law a week ago and, you know, it seemed as though there was no one on the radar for the family members as to who could have done something this awful. But now he's saying that there were these red flags and that Dr. McKee had threatened Monique Tepe's life when she was Monique McKee. And I just wonder how red a flag is it when someone makes a death threat to the person they're married to?

[F]

Hi, Ashley. Thank you so much for having me. Yes, so, absolutely. The death threats in an intimate partner relationship are concerned, are basically a huge warning sign. And it's always best to view them in context of the. It's shifting, like the conflict between them is shifting between emotional conflict to potentially a behavioral conflict where maybe an abuser is going to then move from just thinking about hurting the victim to actually acting. And that becomes lethal for a domestic violence homicide victim.

[C]

I mean, I suspect if there's going to be a trial, I mean, that's, you know, obviously there can always be a plea bargain, as we saw in Coburger. But if there's going to be a trial, I sense that a lot of this stuff is going to come out in court. The things that were said, the things that were threatened, et cetera. And they matter, they matter to juries. But I was really taken by that wedding video, not just the words. When she said wrong relationships and waterfalls of tears led me to you, Spencer. But she started to cry and continued to cry all the way through that. And I just wanted to get your professional assessment of that.

[F]

Yes, you know, that struck me as well. And it struck me that the words that she chose, you know, she, she said, you know, bad bumble dates, wrong relationships, and she put the S on the end of it, Ashley. And I thought that was interesting where she said a wrong relationships, but, you know, did she mean a wrong relationship? And that's one of the things I've been thinking about recently. In addition to that, then she said the last part of it was about the waterfall of tears. And so for me, it kind of the, the summary, the summarizing statement that that kind of went through my mind was that she went on a journey and there was a tremendous amount of emotional growth through trial and error. And that resulted in meaning to her because she was saying, you know, this wasn't worthless, this wasn't. My journey mattered because it led me all the way to you. And it really struck me that she was so emotional and she was so grateful to be there with Spencer that day. That's how I perceived it.

[C]

One of the things that you wrote about The Tepe murders, Dr. Petler, is quote, murder is conflict resolution for the offender. And I just want you to pull on that thread a bit.

[F]

Sure. That is something I've been talking about for a very, very long time, throughout my career, simply because this is the type of situation that I specialize in. So in domestic violence homicide. And the reason I'm using that analogy in those words is because the defendant in this case is the former intimate partner of Monique Tepe. And so it's possible that of course there's going to be a trial, but what they're saying is that they're. They're alleging this person is responsible for their deaths, Monique and Spencer. And what I mean by conflict resolution is, is that murder is conflict resolution in that it resolves an internal conflict that's going on within the inside the offender. And this is just a blanket statement across the board for intimate partner homicide. And it doesn't make sense, but it, to us maybe, but it makes sense to that person, the offender, him or herself. And so sometimes it can be years like this. And in these cases, there is stalking and of course, all of these other lethalities factors that go in that we're looking at those variables when we have a situation like this. And as this case evolves, I think all of that will come to fruition for everyone so they can see kind of what happened. But sometimes these types of cases, offenders keep things close to the vest and they never reveal why they might have done something to injure or kill victims because that's how they maintain control and that's how they continue to relocate that emotional, cathartic execution over and over and over again.

[C]

It's. It's just so shocking that it's a decade later.

[E]

It is.

[C]

Dr. Laura Petler, thank you so much for your assessment.

[F]

Thank you for having me.

[C]

My Great thanks to Dr. Laura Petler. If you follow true crime, I do not have to tell you that the roads have Eyes. Just like every park has eyes, every bridge has eyes, pretty much every building, every sidewalk and even a falafel stand, they all have eyes. So it is a safe bet that police in Columbus, Ohio knew exactly how and when the surgeon accused in the murders of Spencer and Monique Tepe allegedly traveled from Northern Illinois all the way to Columbus and back again. And whether he made that trip before a potential dry run. I keep going back to the Idaho murders where investigators used cell phone tower pings and surveillance cameras to reconstruct Brian Coburger and all those reconnaissance missions that he made to 1122 King Road, Way before the killings, months before the killings, he did it back and forth, back and forth. Pullman, Washington, Moscow, Idaho, back and forth and then again on the night of the massacre and the morning after. So yeah, Idaho informs me when it comes to all the kinds of gear, all the kinds of investigative techniques and equipment out there on the roads, everything that can get you the road trip or the road trips when it comes to the Columbus murders, a longer drive than say Brian Kohberger's. This one is five and a half hours each way, minimum. That one leaves a lot more evidence. Navigation apps record every turn that we make. And by the way, Google Maps can too. You may not even know that you've got it on your phone and it's leaving a popcorn trail wherever you go. Toll booths, yeah, we're used to going through them. We think nothing of it, but they record your license plate, they record your toll tag, they take timestamps and they usually get a picture of you. Gas stations, charging stations, convenience stores, every one of them they got cameras, right? If you pay cash, you're on camera. Don't think that you're secret. If you don't pay cash, they record your credit card transaction. So yeah, a financial popcorn trail. The so called suitcase killer. I covered her case. It was Melanie McGuire. I'm going to do a whole episode on her. She was tripped up in part by her easy pass. You know up here in the Northeast, everybody has an easy pass. They all have different names all around the country, but basically they're toll tags. In Dallas, we called it a toll tag. They're toll tags. They're electronic things you put on your window so you don't have to stop and page time, it's just clicks it and charges you automatically. And those records are kept. And for Melanie McGuire, her toll tag basically proved she was a liar. And so toll tags can prove any killer. If they say that they are somewhere, they aren't not only that, but guess what else is out there all over the place? License plate readers. That was the exact thing that helped track Brian Laundrie and his evil movements. The license plate readers were what helped to narrow the timeline of Gabby Petito's disappearance and her death. Ashley Buzzard she allegedly swapped license plates to cover her tracks on the road trip where she allegedly murdered her own little nine year old girl, Melody. And police say she did something more. She backed into gas stations to avoid the cameras, but didn't work. She was caught anyway. They found her. They found her and they tracked her. All those things just keep an eye on you even when you think you've got it covered. Now let's talk Jodi Arias. Because Jodi Arias was caught as well. Even though she tried to avoid stopping for gas on a hella long road trip from California to Arizona where she had designs on killing her boyfriend Travis. Ex boyfriend. She didn't want it to be X. She loaded up her trunk with jerry cans of gas so that she wouldn't stop along the way for gas and be captured on those pesky cameras or have to pay and have a pesky popcorn trail of finance. No, she took the gas with her in her trunk. And guess what? She got caught doing that too. They got the evidence of the jerry cans in the trunk, the gasoline fumes, all of it. Earlier on my News Nation show, I talked to Phil Waters. Phil is great. He is a retired homicide detective. He's got more than 400 cases under his belt when he was with the Houston pd. So here's how our conversation went. Take a look.

[A]

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[C]

So is it your expertise, my friend, that criminals simply seem. Seem to think they're invisible while driving in the dark?

[D]

Well, it's good to be back with you as it's been a while. Happy New Year. Yeah. You know, there's always that feeling that running around under a cover of darkness where they're, you know, darkness is the absence of light. And so that gives them a form of security that can't be found anywhere else. And especially in an event like this, traveling at night. He may have traveled, actually may have traveled during the day, we don't know yet. Waited around, did his recon, and then he went and did what he did and then he travels back at night. So it is a. It is a comfort to guys like this that they think they are invisible on the road.

[C]

Well, listen, again, I keep repeating it, innocent until proven guilty, but look at these roots. I want you to weigh in on the importance of routes taken and routes avoided. Meaning if a longer route was taken to avoid tolls, that speaks volumes to a homicide detective, doesn't it?

[D]

Well, all of these movements are going to mean something. They're going to tell part of the story. So what was interesting to me, what will be is if they determine, and I'm sure they will, what was the route that he took going and did that change in the route coming back? And is there some sort of plan that he had that this was going to. He Thought he was throwing people off, but you know, they're going to pull data, I would think, out of the car, if he had his cell phone with him, data out of there that's going to track him one way or the other. So it will be interesting to see if he tried to alter the routes to kind of throw off his trail a little bit, so to speak.

[C]

I've done a few crimes where there have been long drives, and again, he's innocent until proven guilty. But if Dr. McKee did this, is it possible that he and his, I'm guessing, very expensive defense attorney because he's a vascular surgeon and he's going to hire one, is it possible they could use the excuse? Yes, I drove that route. I needed to talk to her. And that's all, all I planned to do to get them off the death penalty and premeditated murder.

[D]

Well, that's, that's a good question. And I've, I've been pondering what their approach is going to be for his defense. So they can, they can, I guess, proffer that they can say that kind of thing. But, you know, this is a case like all homicides, where you let the evidence lead you where you need to be. And it's always a journey for the truth. They can have their opinions about what he did and they can tell the story, but they can't have their own set of facts. And these kind of facts that I think that are going to be developed in the digital footprint that he made on this, on this journey are going to be pretty hard to dispute. And I don't think that some weak argument about, hey, I was just going up there to have a chat and it just turned bad. That's not going to mean there's not a lot of depth.

[C]

Well, especially if they find a murder weapon, which we don't know if they've done that, but if they find a murder weapon, it's like you don't go for a chat and take ballistics with you so that, that could wipe that off the map right there. I only have 30 seconds left, but I gotta ask you, because you know about what happens to someone after he or she commits murder. And I wanted you to just weigh in on that drive home and what your thoughts are about what that drive home might have been like if he actually killed those people.

[D]

Well, I can tell you had a case similar to this where it was a long period of time, eight hours. This particular character made three trips in about 30 hours. Eight hour trips. So 24 hours worth of driving And I can tell you that these guys that do this kind of thing, especially something like this, that is fueled with this intimate relationship, they are. It's the same kind of fee, the same kind of high that Tom Cruise gets when he launches off of a mountainside on a motorcycle. It is the adrenaline rush, the dopamine, everything that happens in a moment of thrill, that's what he's experiencing. And I would be surprised if he even remembers anything about the drive home other than the fact that he left the location and he arrived at his rest. So that period of time, that's a long period of time to think about what you did. And I would imagine part of it is going to be justify, hey, I was right. I did what I had to do to protect my. Myself, whatever that self was that he was trying to take care of. So, yeah, there it's a. It's a moment of reflection. I would imagine that he's looking up in that mirror at himself and he's thinking, yeah, I did this thing. And he is further justifying everything that.

[C]

He did if in fact it was him. And I can't imagine how hard he would crash if again, it's him. The kind of, you know, after effect, if it's not him when he gets.

[D]

Home, if it's not him, who is it?

[F]

Right, Right.

[C]

Hey, Phil Waters. Great to have you. Thank you for your expertise.

[D]

Thank you so much, Ashley. Happy New Year. Good to be with you.

[C]

The evidence trail on this case is only just beginning to surface. The drive, the digital footprint, the electronics, the alleged threats, the red flags that may have been ignored for years. And as investigators continue to pull on all of those threads and more, this story is undoubtedly going to be more dark, certainly darker before it gets clearer. And I definitely want to hear from you. What do you think stood out in this episode? Particularly what didn't sit right? What questions do you think the police still need to answer? Leave your thoughts and leave your theories in the comments or the reviews on Apple. I do read them and we're going to be revisiting many of them in the next episode as well. And we're going to run down a whole lot more investigative techniques like gunshot residue. Damn, that's a good one. DNA. Not just the DNA you leave behind. The DNA you take with you, the little tiny microscopic pieces of evidence that you take with you from a crime scene. Few think about that. They think about what did the killer leave behind. They don't think about what the killer took home. And sometimes that is what can be just as compelling to a jury. I'm Ashley Banfield. Thank you so much for watching. Thank you for listening. And remember, the truth isn't just serious. It's dropped. Dead serious.