Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield

Episode Summary:

Elizabeth Smart: Exclusive Interview | "Epstein-Maxwell Case Echoes Mine"
Release Date: December 4, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Ashleigh Banfield dives into the harrowing story of Elizabeth Smart’s 2002 abduction and draws a powerful, unexpected connection to the crimes of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Banfield interviews Elizabeth Smart about her new book, Detours: Hope and Growth After Life’s Hardest Turns, and explores how survivor narratives are shaped by class, media, and the public’s perception of victims. Through personal reflection and candid conversation, the episode examines deep injustices, the impact of support—or its lack—on victims, and the lingering trauma of high-profile abuse cases.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Horrors of Elizabeth Smart’s Abduction

• Background: Banfield recounts the 2002 kidnapping of 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart by Brian David Mitchell and Wanda Barzee, detailing the abuse Elizabeth suffered and the twisted dynamics between her captors ([01:35]).
  • "The Smarts had taken pity on Brian David Mitchell... He was, you know, milling about and got a good look at their young daughter Elizabeth. And that's when he hatched a sadistic plan to steal her from the smart family and make Elizabeth his additional wife..." — Ashleigh Banfield ([01:56]).
• Details of Abuse: Elizabeth was held for nine months, subjected to daily sexual assault, with Barzee actively participating.
• Aftermath: Mitchell received a life sentence, but Barzee is now free, living as a registered sex offender back in the community ([03:32]).

2. Comparing Victim Narratives: The Smart and Epstein Cases

• Echoes Across Class Lines: Banfield highlights Smart’s recent public reflection that parallels can be drawn between her case and the Epstein-Maxwell case, despite vast socioeconomic differences ([04:30]).
• Victim-Blaming and Perception: Smart reflects on how she was believed and supported by the public and media, potentially because of her wholesome, upper-middle-class background, while Epstein’s victims were often doubted and scrutinized ([05:23]).
  • "If Jeffrey and Ghislaine's victims had been treated the same, things might have been different. But they weren't." — Ashleigh Banfield ([05:14])
  • "So much of the blame somehow, in a twisted way, falls on the victims. Somehow they need to be questioned as to why they were even there. But they were kids, just like Elizabeth." — Ashleigh Banfield ([05:45])

3. The Impact of Virginia Giuffre’s Death and Media Coverage

• On Virginia Giuffre: Banfield and Smart discuss the recent suicide of Virginia Giuffre (an Epstein survivor), mourning her and pointing out the failure of society and media to provide her the support that was extended to Smart ([08:01]).
  • "It felt like we had failed her... so many victims when they come forward, when they try to share their stories, especially if it's against respected people in the community, they are put on trial in the court of public opinion." — Elizabeth Smart ([08:43])
• Double Standard: Smart describes the contrast in her own experience:
  • "Nobody's ever turned to me and been like, I don't actually think you were kidnapped. I actually think you ran away. No one's ever said that to me. But what were the comments that were said to Virginia?" ([09:02])
• Childhood and Age: Smart emphasizes the blurred lines around the age of victims:
  • "17 is still a child. And that wasn't her first... Are you saying that I was an adult? 14, 15. That's not that different than 17. I mean, 17 is still a child." ([09:32])

4. The Role of Socioeconomics and Public Sympathy

• Socio-Economic Divide: Banfield discusses how class and family status impact whether society supports or doubts a victim, citing the different reactions to her own case versus those involved in the Epstein scandal ([10:17], [13:00]).
  • "Maybe because like it looked like I came from a really nice upper class family. I think that could have played a role in why people maybe believed my story and supported me a bit more than Virginia." — Elizabeth Smart ([13:00])
• Abduction Realities: Banfield insists that anyone can be a victim and that stranger kidnappings, though rare, do occur even in “perfect” families ([13:17]).
  • "The bogeyman came to your house and stole you. It happens. It's happened multiple times in my career." ([13:17])
• Predator Targeting: Both Smart and Banfield detail how Epstein/Maxwell chose victims from vulnerable backgrounds to avoid scrutiny ([05:23]).

5. Processing Trauma and the Afterlife of Infamous Cases

• Ongoing Triggers: Smart explains how seeing Barzee in the news still affects her, but how she actively chooses to focus on her happiness and life ([14:34]):
  • "I also have to remind myself that this is my life and I only get one shot at life... I don't want to live my life unhappy. I want to have a wonderful life. I want to be happy. I want to do all the things I want to do." — Elizabeth Smart ([14:41])
• On Justice and Prosecution: Smart remarks on the rarity of seeing perpetrators brought to justice, expressing a bittersweet gratitude for her own case's resolution ([14:41]).

6. Media Lessons and Family Resilience

• Media Coverage Strategies: Banfield shares behind-the-scenes insights on how families of missing children manage photos and information—dole them out strategically to keep the case in the news and the public’s mind ([15:43]).
• Realities of Search/Recovery: Banfield recalls the despair of covering Elizabeth’s case as weeks ticked by with no progress, highlighting the slim odds of recovery in such abductions ([17:30]).
• Rescue Story: She recounts the harrowing moment when, after months of abuse and living hidden in plain sight, Smart was finally rescued after a police officer refused to give up, despite being initially misled about her identity ([18:42]).
  • "That tells you the power that these people can have over kids... They abused her physically and mentally for nine months. And today she is a remarkable young woman who is able to impart her wisdom on so many others who could really benefit from it." — Ashleigh Banfield ([19:21])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:56 | Ashleigh Banfield | "...hatched a sadistic plan to steal her from the smart family and make Elizabeth his additional wife..." | | 05:14 | Ashleigh Banfield | "If Jeffrey and Ghislaine's victims had been treated the same, things might have been different. But they weren't." | | 08:43 | Elizabeth Smart | "It felt like we had failed her... so many victims when they come forward... they are put on trial in the court of public opinion."| | 09:32 | Elizabeth Smart | "17 is still a child... 14, 15. That's not that different than 17. I mean, 17 is still a child." | | 13:00 | Elizabeth Smart | "Maybe because like it looked like I came from a really nice upper class family... people maybe believed my story and supported me a bit more than Virginia."| | 14:41 | Elizabeth Smart | "This is my life and I only get one shot at life... I want to have a wonderful life. I want to be happy." | | 18:42 | Ashleigh Banfield | "...so terrorized... she gave a fake name. There is her savior, a police officer right in front of her. And she was so terrified what Brian David Mitchell would do... she gave the police officer a fake name."| | 19:21 | Ashleigh Banfield | "...they abused her physically and mentally for nine months. And today she is a remarkable young woman..." |

Important Timestamps

• Elizabeth’s ordeal and details of abduction: [01:35]–[03:32]
• Parallels to Epstein/Maxwell, victim perception: [04:30]–[06:55]
• Interview with Elizabeth Smart: [06:55]–[15:43]
  • On Virginia Giuffre & public perception: [08:01]–[09:57]
  • On class and media support: [10:17]–[13:00]
  • Processing ongoing trauma: [14:08]–[14:41]
• Ashleigh’s personal reporting reflections, strategies for missing children cases: [15:43]–[18:29]
• Story of Elizabeth’s rescue and aftermath: [18:29]–[19:47]

Tone & Style

Banfield’s approach is deeply empathetic, personal, and direct—sharing journalistic insights while maintaining a reverent, sometimes indignant tone for the injustices discussed. Elizabeth Smart’s responses are poised and reflective, but pointed, shining a light on persistent victim-blaming and inequities within the justice system and media.

For anyone wanting an unvarnished, compassionate look at the intersections of true crime, trauma, and survivorhood—in both personal and societal terms—this episode offers powerful context and firsthand wisdom.