← Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Hired Help? Mystery Perp? Nancy Guthrie Search Blows Wide Open | Nancy Guthrie Missing Day 14
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Ashley Banfield
Has every outfit you need for the season of long weekends full of linen shirts, sweaters and coastal shorts designed to go from your desk straight to days off. For me, the collection's must have are the baggy trousers with the casual fit and tailored look for endless versatility. Get your closet ready for spring plans. Shop Abercrombie in the app online and in stores. Hey everyone, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is Drop Dead Serious. It is Saturday, February 14th. It's Valentine's Day. It is also two weeks since anyone last saw Nancy Guthrie alive after she was dropped off following a dinner with her family members. And after 14 days, you can imagine that people are upset. They are frustrated. They have followed every moment. I'm sure you have been following every moment of this case. It is perplexing. It is confounding. How do you just steal an 84 year old grandmother and get away with it? That's how most people feel. And I'm sure that members of law enforcement feel the same way. Guaranteed they know more than we do. However, on this episode tonight, I've got somebody just fantastic. I mean, God, Maureen o' Connell has always amazed me, right? She looks like she's this a pretty delicate little flower and she's just, she's one tough lady. She spent 25 years in the FBI as a special agent, and she knows her shit. I had this incredibly detailed conversation with her about specifics, about facts in this case and specifics. And she weighs in on stuff she hasn't said elsewhere and other people haven't said either. Really interesting stuff. Also, did you hear that there is now a signal sniffer that's entered the story? Interesting, because Matt Murphy and I talked several days ago about figuring out some way to get Nancy Guthrie's phone to sort of fly over houses within 30ft because it might reconnect to her pacemaker. Pacemakers don't die. They don't go away. Even if she's alive or dead, the pacemaker is still going. The signal sniffer apparently is supposed to do that job. I'm going to go into detail about the signal sniffer. And one thing that I don't understand about the method that they're using is. So it's a bit weird, but I will get to that in a second. Also, big question for you, if you were up with me until 4 o' clock in the morning last night. Thank you. I appreciate the company. But also, I kept thinking to myself as vehicle after vehicle kept entering the perimeter, dozens of federal and local law enforcement vehicles, SWAT vehicles, forensic vehicles, FBI vehicles marked unmarked, sheriff's deputies, all the rest. I kept thinking, there's a lot of vehicles. There's a lot of manpower. There's one guy, there's one guy who, albeit dangerous, got that. But most people have made a joke of him. They don't know what he's doing. He's kind of a dope. Some people have even said that the way he carries his gun is called a Mexican carry. Never heard that before. But that it is not professional. And this is like how you would respond to Ted Kaczynski, you know. Anyway, I'm going to ask Maureen about that. She's got something interesting to say about it. And then also, the sheriff has some new statements. I'm going to read those for you. A little bit of everything, including, you know what, Strap in, pour a drink. It's going to happen a lot. Very interesting. What we saw last night and in Rio Rico is going to happen a lot. He said it's going to happen more than once. So I will read that for you so that you hear it word for word. New York Times had a really interesting story about the man who lived next door to the woman whose house was raided. And it is really fascinating to hear what happened to him and how she became part of his night and everything that transpired I'm going to tell you about that in a second. Also, the hitman theory. Have you been thinking it? I know a lot of people have been thinking it. Was this guy, Was he. Was he for hire? Did he show up there because he was paid, because he was hired to do this? A lot of people have said, really looks like he knows the place. Maybe. Maybe he knows it. Maybe he's familiar. Maybe he was told about it. Gonna get into that with Maureen because she's got something to say about that. And Maureen is really interesting in how she weighs in on this whole Florida lab controversy and the whole bitch scrap that everybody's making hay about. Between the feds and the locals, she's got a very different take on that. You're gonna hear that in a second, too. And then I dig down on that balaclava. I am not over this balaclava. The ski mask everyone's talking about, the backpack. There's hundreds of those things sold at Walmart. But who buys a ski mask in Arizona? Who buys a balaclava in Arizona? Okay, a couple skiers here and there. But there's something different about that ski mask. And since I'm a skier, I'm going to tell you exactly why. I don't believe a lot of skiers buy that. Even Arizonans. Show you what I'm talking about in a minute, but that's coming up in just a second. All right, so let me go through a bit of the last 24 hours, and honest to God, it hasn't been 24 hours because I was up till 4am I think some of y' all were, too. And we're at the two week mark. Two weeks isn't, believe it or not, it feels like an eternity. And if you're the Guthrie family, it is an eternity. Let's not forget their mother, grandmother. This is a real person. And they are hurting. They are really hurting. Can't imagine. Just imagine if it's yours. Just imagine if it's your mom. But two weeks in law enforcement isn't unless you're dealing with a missing person, which time is of the essence. But solving a crime, which is, I think, what a lot of us are trying to sort of think through. Two weeks is not a lot of time. And so there's a certain element of patience that we all have to kind of adopt. And I know it is hard, right, because this is a batshit crazy story. And something crazy happens almost every five minutes. But you're going to hear Maureen o' Connell weigh in on that because she did it for 25 years. A quarter century of experience. She knows a thing or two. Also, we had a federal warrant executed last night. So it wasn't one of these court approved searches, which was what happened in Rio Rico. No, this was a warrant. It was got, it was gotten, it was gat by the feds. I'm going to ask Marina about the significance of that because I thought it was unique, especially since the sheriff did not put out the statement as per the request of the feds. That was interesting. Three people detained, nobody held, nobody arrested. Right. So it kind of went nowhere. Which I'm sure as you all woke up was the first thing you did. Right. What was it you got on your phone? What happened? I was so tired, I couldn't stay awake. Nothing. Nothing. And I still have a lot of questions about what happened because I watched as they towed off a silver Range Rover that they had put privacy screens up to. Take a look in the back. And we all know that privacy screens are usually reserved for bodies. No word about that from the sheriff, but shall read you his entire statement and everything he said today. But also Brianton said that when he talked to law enforcement, they said while there were no arrests last night, they're still following up, quote on leads from last night. And one of the things that I learned from so many of these super smart law enforcement people that I've worked with, that I've befriended, that I've stayed in contact with, is that a lead is kind of like a ripple, right? You throw a rock in the water and there's one ripple and then suddenly it's just lots of ripples. One lead can actually ripple into a lot of different leads. So you just imagine with the tens of thousands of leads that have come into the sheriff's department and also to the FBI, every single one of them is looked at. Now multiply them exponentially because each lead can actually multiply into a rabbit hole. Sometimes it's a good rabbit hole. Sometimes it really does take you to where you want to go. But that may be the factor of last night when they say that. Still following up on leads from last night. So let me read you the sheriff's statement that I woke up to this morning. You may have already read it, but I want you to listen to the words specifically because, you know, words matter. Good morning, media partners, law enforcement activity, colon. Lastly, the federal court ordered search warrant was executed at a residence near East Orange Grove Road and North First Avenue in connection with the Guthrie case. The warrant was based on a lead we Received. No arrests were made. A traffic stop was also conducted. A person was questioned, but no arrests resulted from that incident. There are no further details available at that time. I'm going to pause for a second because that's what pissed me off. It's like, hold it. There was a lot of confusion. There's a guy that was sitting in the back of a sheriff's vehicle being interrogated by what looked like an FBI officer and maybe another sheriff's deputy. He was kind of, like, obscured, but he looked like he was wearing a white hoodie. He definitely had some facial hair. And there was talk that he might have actually been related to the folks who were pulled out of the house. The woman and the man. Some said mother and son. Some said this might have been another son. But there was some connection between these two stops, but we just don't know what was the connection. Was he the target of all of this? And the questioning happened there and the alibi panned out?
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Maureen O'Connell
I don't know.
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Ashley Banfield
Let me continue. And that Range Rover answers. Be nice. You treated it like it was the most important thing, right? The privacy shields and the yellow paper over the license plate. I know that was to keep nosy people like me from making connections and finding out who owns the car. But the car was dirty and was photographed a lot before the privacy shields went up so they could open. And I was actually watching. I'm not gonna lie. It's the business I'm in. As they were opening the back trunk, I was watching the agents who were standing closest to it, because I thought, if there's been a body in there for a long time, they're gonna look away because there will be a horrendous smell that comes out of the vehicle. I saw one woman do it a little bit. She kind of did that, but it wasn't. It wasn't so pronounced that I thought, definitely, there's a body in there. I didn't get that feeling. And then again, the other issue was a medical examiner's vehicle didn't show up there either. That's not to say that cars haven't been towed with bodies in them before. I've seen it happen. Aaron Hernandez, case that happened, it's just not typical. So I can't tell you what the hell happened with that silver Range Rover. I don't know who owns it. I don't know who's not missing it. Nice car. Pima County Sheriff's Department and the FBI continue to work together around the clock on this investigation, tracking all leads. Another show of force in the language because this is important. Lot of news, a lot of ink, a lot of social media on the bitch scrap between the FBI and the locals. I have my own theories on that. I'm going to talk to Maureen about it because she's got some insight, too. Very, very wise insight. We remind the public that there's a reward of up to $100,000 for information leading to the location of Nancy Guthrie and or the arrest and conviction of anyone involved in her disappearance. Call tips into 1-800- call FBI 1-800- call FBI or 520-351-4900. Next subheading is briefings slash interviews. Kind of know this one by heart. Don't read along with me. Right? No interviews. Press briefings scheduled at this time. If a significant development occurs, press conference will be announced via email. And the EMA SheriffX account. Don't hold your breath. Haven't had one since a week ago Thursday. Okay. New York times had an interesting story. They. They met up with the man who lives beside the woman whose house was raided. And the man gave a very interesting account. He said the sheriff's deputy knocked on his door and he had already been getting a lot of communications from neighbors and friends who were, like, unable to return to their homes. They were being locked out of the community. They couldn't come home. They were being stopped. And so anybody who was in their homes, they were all Getting word around 4 o' clock in the afternoon, local time yesterday. Something's going on because we're barred from entering our own neighborhoods. And y' all who are in there probably aren't allowed to come out of your door. And so the sheriff's deputy shows up at this guy's door, and here's what's weird. He has the woman with him from the house next door and is asking this neighbor, could you look after her while we search her house? Could you be with her? Could you, you know, give her a place to be? Super interesting. So she's not the target, right? Definitely. They didn't want to question her. That's my thought. Because you're not gonna just throw her in the neighbor's house and then go back, you know, do your searchy work. But this was hours and hours long. And this guy said he thought it was just so incredibly bizarre because this is an affluent neighborhood. It's dark, it's quiet. This was so unlike what they'd ever seen before. Said that the neighbors next door had never caused any problems, any issues. And he said that she did not Want to talk about what had gone on? The New York Times wanted to interview her. She didn't want to. But the neighbor, when he took this woman back to her house after the search had ended, they found the warrant. The federal warrant was sitting in the home because you know how it works, right? First, the cops have to have probable cause. I'm going to talk about the level of probable cause because it. It's different in this case, and you'll know in a moment why. Super interesting. But first, the cops get the tip or the investigative work leads them to some kind of probable cause. They go to a magistrate or a judge or a night judge or whomever, and they get that signed off. That person has to decide. Yeah, you know what I think? I think the Fourth Amendment, you cleared that. It's not an unreasonable search. Right. Fourth Amendment's unreasonable search and seizure. So that cleared them to go in, you know, kind of guns a blazing. Brian Enten had some great reporting yesterday that they had been doing all this staging and that the helicopter had been flying around. So they were probably making plans and figuring out how they were going to, you know, plan the attack. And the next thing you got to do is you got to have kind of a list of stuff in that warrant. You can't just say, I just want to go in and look at everything. You got to have an idea of what it is that your investigative worker tip is leading you towards. Yeah, I've seen him wear that balaclava. Want to find balaclava? I'm making that up, but that's kind of the idea here. So you kind of have to have a shopping list, and you are in. So NewsNation also spoke with a neighbor of the woman whose house was raided. His name is Peter Mulk. And, you know, Brian Enten talks to everybody. And News Nation was able to, you know, get a few comments from Peter Mulk about what last night was like. Have a look.
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Ashley Banfield
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Neighbor Interviewee
Unbelievably absurd. It's making everybody nervous. It's just surreal. And we just can't imagine how the family is processing all this, you know, as a neighbor, as a person that lives in the community, you know, we just want it to resolve, you know, for the positive.
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Maureen O'Connell
And so what do you make it? How does it feel? There's, you know, 20 cop cars, couple SWAT.
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Neighbor Interviewee
Yeah, I live right across the street.
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Maureen O'Connell
Right across the street. Process.
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Neighbor Interviewee
Yeah, it's weird.
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Maureen O'Connell
Tell us your thoughts when you saw that going on. Maybe, you know, just about trying to process it all. Tell us how you.
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Neighbor Interviewee
Well, we, we feel that, you know, they might have gotten a tip. There's been a lot of tips, I'm sure, over the past two weeks. But this seems to be a tip that's, you know, could be close. Hopefully it's, it's something that's credible and, you know, it's actual. So hopefully they get somebody. But living right so close to it, I can't imagine that if they get somebody that lives right next to me on my street that, you know, that that even makes sense, you know, to be in this neighborhood, to have all these cops here. You know, there's bomb squad vehicles, a lot of cops, a lot of presence.
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Ashley Banfield
Also, I read along with all of you on the Twitter on the X how annoyed we all were by this. Like, we waited and waited, what, for like, I think two hours for the sheriff who said, first there's going to be a press conference. Meet us at this corner. No, no press conference. We're just going to put out a statement. It will be forthcoming. And then we waited and we waited and we waited into the late hours. And then we got this, like, blurb it's like, the fuck. It was like the smallest statement of nothing. I know a couple of you said nothing, Burger and all the rest, but it was basically like, we can't really talk because the feds asked us not to. Interesting. Now we know it was a federal warrant. Maybe the Fed said, you know what? This was our warrant. We'd really like to keep quiet on this one. Let's just not say anything about it. There was just much ado made about the guy in Rio Rico. Didn't go well for us all, so let's just. Also, I've been really, really interested in the ski mask. It's driving me bat shit crazy that there's not more talk about it. Everyone's talking about the backpack, which is a freaking dime a dozen, right? I think somebody said a hundred of them were sold at a Walmart in. In Arizona. I don't know which one. In a Tucson Walmart. But the balaclava, you think hundreds of those are sold in Arizona? I got questions. I got questions about balaclavas in general. Who the hell buys these three hole masks? Because I ski? Not a lot of people use those. So I'm gonna ask Maureen a couple of questions. Number one, how is that not the biggest lead they have? Find the purchasers of any of those fucking balaclavas that have the three holes in them. Because who buys them in Arizona? Couple skiers, baby, but doubt it. That's not a big skiing kind of mask, trust me. And then I asked her about just tracking that kind of purchase anyway. Not just in this case, because who buys those? A lot of people who use them for no good, right? So should we be tracking those kinds of things? Is that too big, brothery? You know, are those tools of crimes just an obvious tool of crimes? You'll be interested to hear what Maureen has to say about that. Also, Michael Ruiz, who's doing killer reporting on the ground for Fox News Digital, had a really interesting tweet today. Let me read it. He said, we received a tip from an active duty Miami area police officer who believes that he has identified the holster seen in surveillance video on the belt of a masked suspect at Nancy Guthrie's front door. It is sold at Walmart just like the backpack. And he holds up a picture, which I'll show you. And then if you want to read his full story about it, just go to foxnews.com because I thought that was interesting. Nobody's really talked about what holster Maureen is going to talk about. Well, great, but wait till you hear her great butt story regarding the holster. I'm also going to talk to her at length about the blood at the front door because it's been driving me absolutely crazy. Why? There are no drag marks or scuffle marks in that blood. It's sort of cleanly dropped, but no one's struggling or there's no sign of struggle there. So I'm just really fascinated with what her thoughts would be about that, just based on the amount of crime fighting that she has done. Matt Finn, who's been doing some amazing work on Fox News Channel, he's on the ground in Tucson. This is what he tweeted earlier today. Breaking Pima County Sheriff Nano says to expect police activity every day and gives more details about last night's massive Guthrie police SWAT activity. Nanos tells Fox the person detained in the traffic stop last night outside Culver's, which we believe involved the gray Range Rover, was a person of interest who was cooperative and later released. Regarding any other detainees, this is the sheriff. I'm guessing anyone at the residence was detained, but that is standard procedure to allow investigators serving a search warrant freedom to conduct their search. I was not at the scene and I'm sure people were detained, but no one was arrested and more importantly, no sign of Nancy was found. Looking ahead, another quote from the sheriff here. Every day moving forward, there will be a lot of police activity throughout the community. As to what level of activity that is depends on what lead they chase and how it develops. These leads start in the command post and move to the field as needed. That is one reason you're seeing activity build up as the day goes, as the day goes on. And that can ultimately lead to a search warrant looking for Nancy and any suspect involved. So there you go. That's the official statements again. I keep wondering why the sheriff says I will not be giving one on one interviews and then boop, sort of does kind of like blurp stuff out to certain people. But night is Young. It's 11:23 on February 14th. Happy Valentine's Day. Maybe there'll be another raid tonight. I don't know. But we're watching. We're always watching. And if there are more developments, you know you're going to get them here. As long as you subscribe. Because if you subscribe, you will get them the developments. So now I want you to hear this conversation I had with Maureen O'. Connell. Gosh, she is so effing smart. Clearly the 25 years, there's nothing lost in her experience because she is rock solid on so Much of this investigative stuff. She's a former FBI special agent. She's the host of the podcast Best Case, Worst Case with Jim Clementi. Okay, here's my conversation with Maureen o'.
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Maureen O'Connell
Connell.
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Ashley Banfield
So, Maureen, what do you make of the fact that it was a federal warrant that was executed last night? It wasn't a state, it wasn't a sheriff's warrant, it wasn't city, it was the feds.
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Maureen O'Connell
It doesn't really surprise. It doesn't really surprise me because this is a task force situation. And in a task force, especially for a big case where there's a lot of moving parts, you're going. Since we have the FBI there and a huge contingent of FBI agents and federal office agents and officers, we're going to have an AUSA also. And so that United States attorney from that district will be in a position to help with these warrants. Now, the warrants could be put together as it's happening. So if a data point comes up that they think might lead to a warrant, it may be the protocol in place right now to start working on a warrant for this person. Or if they have a list in the first seven people, might be good for something that they're looking at. And they have several data points. They're going to already start with those with those warrants.
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Ashley Banfield
So after the raid, or at least, you know, midway through or late into the night, it came out that the Pima county sheriff was going to give an update and a statement and we all waited with bated breath and then suddenly it was sort of a non statement at the behest of the FBI. Did that surprise you?
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Maureen O'Connell
No.
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Ashley Banfield
Tell me why.
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Maureen O'Connell
Well, you know, God love them, the pressers have just been terrible and they create more questions than answers. You can come out with a succinct statement, which I was actually surprised that at least a statement didn't come out. But I'd actually. I'd rather have nothing than. Than something that's for. That's confusing everyone.
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Ashley Banfield
Yeah.
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Maureen O'Connell
The.
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Ashley Banfield
It seemed almost terse and you know, there's been so much made in the media of the acrimony between the locals and the feds. I've been at this rodeo a this story rises in every single story that there's some sort of butting of heads and oftentimes I feel like the headlines get away from the actual reality on the ground. What's your read of what things might be like between the p. Mechanic sheriff's office and the and the authorities who are in the local field office? The feds who are in the local field office, and then the folks that have come in from, say, around the country or in D.C.
- [26:23]
Maureen O'Connell
I think they're all getting along great. The worker bees, the people out there doing it. You noticed that all day yesterday, we saw one sheriff's deputy with an FBI agent. That's how we usually do it. And you rely on your partners to whatever the difficult task is at hand, who can do it quicker, who can do it a little bit faster and better. And we're all used to doing that. So I think the relationship is good. I think the big hiccup came when someone in the bureau found out that a glove was sent to the private lab instead of letting the bureau do it, when, in fact, there was no glove inside that house. And there's a funny saying that punctuation matters. And my understanding is it was a difference between a comma and no comma in the writing of that communication. So it's kind of like text messages where you see that the funny meme where it's like, wait, you said what? How dare you? And then you realize they didn't mean that at all. They're driving and voice to text mix mixed it up. So I think something like that.
- [27:33]
Ashley Banfield
My favorite line in a movie is from my cousin Vinnie, I shot the sheriff with inflection. You're asking a question. But when you see it in print, it says, I shot the sheriff. And so people just. And that's exactly why I asked you that question, because I really felt as though, you know, every media outlet, large, small, and otherwise, is scrambling for any kind of story they can tell. And I felt like that one just shot out of a cannon and took on a life of its own. But on the ground, I really felt like, sure, there might have been a snipe here and there, but I just don't think it's endemic.
- [28:07]
Maureen O'Connell
Right. And I've been in these situations a lot. And, you know, I'll be with my sheriff's partner. I've been on task forces or with the. I'll be with the LAPD or the LA County Sheriff's Department or a local municipal. And. And I'll say something about my boss, and they totally agree, and vice versa. But we're rolling up our sleeves. We're completely. I'm not saying that the bosses aren't dedicated, because everyone here. You can feel the dedication in these people and the drive to bring Nancy home. That's what everybody wants. But some people have a different way of how they want things run.
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- [30:40]
Maureen O'Connell
Bees were the ones that were, you know, these guys are out there pushing a black and white. The other people are searching in the in the desert all night long, all day long in the heat. Some people are down on their hands and knees looking at evidence. Other people have been working 12, 14 hour shifts trying to figure out what vehicles, what devices were in that area at that time. And does that correlate or does it not correlate with the list of people that they're looking at or that they're getting close to? You know, because if you get three or four Data points on one person, that person's getting shot to the top of the list. And that's a person where that might be enough probable cause to get a warrant. And that's why early warrant writing I think might be. Might be what? What's going on with that Fed warrant you talked about?
- [31:25]
Ashley Banfield
Okay, I won't talk probable cause because that's high on my list today. We had a warrant. Well, I'm not sure if we had a warrant. It was, the language was really unusual. Was a court approved search. I didn't agree. Or rico. I thought that might have been exigent circumstances. Says the US Courts say we can break in without a warrant. That's my read on what that might have been. But we had a search down in Orea, rico, and then we had a search last night. And I wanted to know if probable cause is a little lower when you got an older woman who's missing and doesn't have her meds, as opposed to standard magistrate behavior or late night judge behavior and getting a warrant.
- [32:04]
Maureen O'Connell
Yes. And an at risk youth or a baby. When, when, you know, when, when you have those images of that guy at that door with a gun strapped on him. And when he, when he dragged Nancy out of there, however he got her out of there, she was bleeding. Not only does he have a predisposition and a proclivity to violence, but he proved that he was willing to do anything to get her out of that house. And with that type of information and a couple of data points, this car was in that area and it was also over here. And we. Someone called the tip line and said that guy who, who was down on the list because he was just in the area, but now we hear he has a backpack that looks like that. And someone else called in and said he's got a mustache. Those, those data points might just get you the warrant.
- [32:55]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah, yeah. But here's what I didn't understand. As Brian Anton was reporting live from the scene in the perimeter, he's counting dozens of federal and state law enforcement vehicles and dozens and dozens of personnel, including bomb squads and SWAT team members and forensics units, etc, and I, I wondered about the show of force because the guy on the nest cam, you know, has his gun pointed at his business. It just did not look like a pro. He didn't look like a, a dangerous.
- [33:31]
Maureen O'Connell
Nobody proved that he's willing to hurt people.
- [33:34]
Ashley Banfield
Did we need that many people in the show of force on executing that warrant? That's what I was wondering.
- [33:38]
Maureen O'Connell
Well, they put it out on the radio, maybe. Maybe they put something out along the lines of, hey, if you're in the area, we might need a perimeter. First of all, I would take, I would bring in the cavalry just to keep everybody else out of that place because that would be, you know, that would be a hot number to be there and to witness. And, you know, as you saw, they made Brian back up and move out because they have to have a secure perimeter at that time. They don't know what this person is. And for all we know, you know, someone could have said they thought he had explosives or something. I don't know, because the bomb squad rolling out that had me scratching my head a little bit because I haven't done that a lot.
- [34:21]
Ashley Banfield
That's what surprised me as well. I mean, the bomb squad both nights. And I thought, well, I'm not sure about last night, but I just sort of thought, look, the guy's dangerous to, certainly to Mrs. Guthrie. But it didn't feel like he was the, you know, Sheikh Rahman or anybody who's going to bomb the World Trade Center. I didn't feel like he was that level of danger. I felt like.
- [34:41]
Maureen O'Connell
But if you, if you, if you're demonstrating a complete disregard for human life and well being of innocent, the most innocent, vulnerable members of our society, they're going to have no problem showing that type of behavior toward law enforcement.
- [34:59]
Ashley Banfield
And I do like the idea that the perimeter is important because they have tried to keep so much of this quiet. Even towing that Land Rover last night, the Range Rover, and putting yellow paper over the license plate so that people like us couldn't trace it and find out who owned that, who owned that Range Rover.
- [35:16]
Maureen O'Connell
Did they have a warrant for that Range Rover?
- [35:18]
Ashley Banfield
My only thought is yes, because they said in the sheriff's comments today that they had executed, I believe he used the term plural said if he said a federal court ordered search warrant was executed at a residence in connection. Warrant was based on a tip. A traffic stop was also conducted and a person was questioned, but no arrest. Doesn't say anything though about the towing of that Range Rover and then the, you know, the privacy screens that were going up. In my business, it's usually because there's a body. You don't usually put privacy screens up for evidence.
- [35:52]
Maureen O'Connell
To you, that's like a death shroud that you put up. So I'm wondering, wasn't there. I heard chatter on the scanners about a dead body, but I never heard any follow up on that.
- [36:04]
Ashley Banfield
Well, there was a, there was a hot mess of Social media about a suicide and a shooting and all, all of that. And none of it came to bear, certainly for this story, whether that ended up not being related to Nancy Guthrie. But at the moment they thought it might be. I can't tell you that because they're not telling us that in the statement. But I want to ask you about a little bit more about that Florida lab because you and I talked the other night about that particular Florida lab and it turned out to be the one that you brought up from Deerfield Beach. What's the name of it again? International DNA International.
- [36:38]
Maureen O'Connell
I'm not sure.
- [36:39]
Ashley Banfield
I think it was DNA International. And they're extraordinary, they've solved, you know, extraordinary crimes. And I think I heard you mention earlier that they specialize in touch DNA. Is that true?
- [36:52]
Maureen O'Connell
That's what I understand. My experience with that lab is through a series of double homicides called the Colonial Parkway Murders. That's it. They were able to solve three double homicides. So six people they've attributed to one person. But he died in 2017, so they can't upload his DNA into CODIS, which I think is strange. But you know, I'm making some phone calls about that.
- [37:24]
Ashley Banfield
I feel like they can, I feel like they could exhume that guy, get that DNA and, and then upload it and maybe be able to solve many of the unsolved that may be attributed to him.
- [37:33]
Maureen O'Connell
Right. Because we're looking at. There are people that believe that number may not be six people, it may be as high as 15 more.
- [37:43]
Ashley Banfield
But this lab, this lab is no joke. I mean they've done remarkable work. And when you mentioned that you think that they specialize in touch DNA, that also keyed for me because what happened is homicide showed up at Nancy Guthrie's home on Sunday and processed that scene. And obviously with a missing woman. Speed was of the essence here and they, they use their regular pipeline and went to that Deerfield beach lab that they use all the time. FBI is brought in the next day. So it's not as though there was an argument and they, the FBI and from what the sheriff said yesterday and take it forward as word is different word on the ground from local FBI, but that they were all okay with it, that the next day the FBI was, was fine with that. But the fact that they have this savvy untouched DNA, maybe that's exactly what the evidence was that they got something that is touch based.
- [38:39]
Maureen O'Connell
I think that's exactly what the issue is. I also, the, the. There is a hiccup with it, though, because that lab doesn't have access to codis. They don't have access to our databases. So whatever they come up with is going to have to either go back to the sheriff or to the FBI lab to be uploaded into codis.
- [39:01]
Ashley Banfield
Is that a problem? Is that difficult?
- [39:03]
Maureen O'Connell
I don't know if it's a problem. I just, you know, one more leap, one more move, one more chess move. It's, you know, I like keeping things clean if I can. But I can see his point. If he thinks he can get something back in 24 hours, and he thinks that the FBI, because the FBI lab oftentimes is notorious for taking a long time. But not when the president of the United States says, you're going to get what you want for this entire investigation, that tells me carte blanche, no red tape moving forward. Here we go.
- [39:37]
Ashley Banfield
You know, I think that took a few days, though. Certainly on Sunday, they didn't know they were in everything's. In hindsight, so easy. But on Sunday, they had a missing woman, and they probably knew that she was the mother of a Today show host. But much, much more than that, I think we've. We've learned since. And certainly the president weighed in several.
- [39:54]
Maureen O'Connell
Days later that night on our call. I. I'm a big believer in treating everyone the same way. And even though everyone's like, look at all the resources. Yeah, there's a lot of resources. But I've worked kidnappings with small children who were very poor, where we poured exactly what you're pouring into this case, into that. Our hearts, our souls. Missing everything at home, Staying extra late, showing up early, sleeping in our cars sometimes. I mean, that's the level of dedication that you get when a vulnerable member of the community is.
- [40:28]
Ashley Banfield
Is in trouble. You know, I'm glad you brought that up, because I know that, listen, everybody wants Mrs. Guthrie home. I don't think there's anybody out there who doesn't ultimately feel the sadness of this story, not only for Mrs. Guthrie, but her family. And everyone's hoping for a resolution where she comes home alive. But as you get in past now, we're at. We're at day 14. We're at the two week mark tonight where she was last seen. Some of the critics will start to come into the. Into the conversation. And the arena is imbued with those who say, wait a minute. Why all these resources for this one woman? What about everybody else? But you feel differently. It's just maybe that it's very visible that everyone's watching it happen. But in, in those other cases, there's just as much dedication. It's just not on the news every night.
- [41:14]
Maureen O'Connell
I'm not saying that it's one to one, because when you're sending HRT out, that's a whole contingent of tier one operators. When they don't, they don't show up on a plane, you know, with, with their duffel bag and a backpack. They come loaded for bear. Yeah, but for these. For these several children, I mean, we. We worked a very long time. One of those children was brought home alive after like a week or so and was being kept in a house by a woman and her family. And they were being paid by these drug dealers to take care of the child until all the negotiations were worked out with the ransom. So we did have one situation where, you know, the child came back alive, but it was after several. Where the child. Children didn't, which just. I mean, when I tell you, it tears you apart. You. You can't imagine what that does to people.
- [42:13]
Ashley Banfield
No, I can't.
- [42:15]
Maureen O'Connell
Let alone the family.
- [42:16]
Ashley Banfield
And HRT being the hostage rescue team. Yeah, yeah. That's also the big federal unit that's come in on this case from. From above. So I wanted to ask you about these raids and what you think they are the product of. I. I wondered if they are the product of tips or if they are the product of the gumshoe work. Looking into the purchases of the things that we can see. The backpack, that gun holster, but also. Hello, a balaclava in Arizona. How many people have ski masks in Arizona?
- [42:52]
Maureen O'Connell
Good question. I think it's a combination of everything. Everything we talked about. The FBI has the analysts and the software and everything that do all the intake, all the intake of the information, all the. Any. Any and all data points that you have on any of these people, even if it's just a first name with no last name or last name with no first name. And we try to build up these profiles as it. More information comes in, as the other analysts are looking everything up, as we're trying to figure out how many people in this, you know, city own vehicles with this color, with this license plate, with this. And we saw a stick around the back. I mean, it is. You just can't even imagine the amount of information flying around one of those data centers.
- [43:40]
Ashley Banfield
And I also think AI is going to help, right? AI is going to help a lot in this and aggregating so much data and spitting out some analyses which could take, you know, humans hours and hours and days and days and weeks and Weeks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [43:52]
Maureen O'Connell
AI should help. But those cameras and the data centers that deal with those cameras, those should help also. But a lot of that, it's analog still. It's not gonna. Or it's just not gonna be fast.
- [44:04]
Ashley Banfield
Like AI this is, this is a question that's gonna piss off so many people who are listening right now watching my husband and I looked up those balaclavas. Right. And you don't. There's not a lot of the three whole. Right. The two eyes and a mouth. Many of the balaclavas you buy these days have just an eye, you know, square across the eyes. So I just kept wondering, what use is that for anybody to purchase? Does anybody track purchases of those kinds of balaclava face coverings? Because it seems to me certainly in the southern states there's no need for those other than bad behavior.
- [44:43]
Maureen O'Connell
Unless they're flying to Utah to ski. I mean, that's something that's not going to be on the list of what we call trip wires. So we have trip wires in the FBI where if someone's buying a lot of fertilizer, we're going to get a notification. All those kind of things, anything that could be made into an explosive or things like that. So that's not on the trip wire.
- [45:05]
Ashley Banfield
Is that because. Is that because it's usually petty crime, it's usually B es and, and you know, convenience store hold ups and that kind of thing that the Bella clubs are bought for?
- [45:14]
Maureen O'Connell
No, I just, I. Because there's just legitimate uses for those crimes, masks. I think it's kooky. I think you're up to no good, especially if you're buying it around here.
- [45:25]
Ashley Banfield
I mean. Right. And by the way, I'm a huge skier. I've been skiing since 1969.
- [45:33]
Maureen O'Connell
Well, you're Canadian. You better be a good skier.
- [45:36]
Ashley Banfield
And I'm from Winnipeg. And I can tell you I almost never see people wearing the three whole balaclavas. Almost never in the cold weather look, ever. Yeah.
- [45:46]
Maureen O'Connell
Wants to wear that thing. You look frightening. You're going to scare the children on the slopes.
- [45:50]
Ashley Banfield
Because it's mostly for criminals. That's why I just wondered. You can't buy a Bella Clavas in Arizona without having people look askance for a hot minute. It's likely not for skiing. Honestly, not many of them are on the ski hill. But I digress. I want to ask you about.
- [46:05]
Maureen O'Connell
I'm gonna make a prediction that, that that holster was not purchased at Walmart or at an Amazon together with those other Items. It just. I bet it's old.
- [46:17]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting. Who was it today who actually found that holster? Lindsay, who is it? Do you know Fox that was reporting it? Is it Matt Finn? No, trying to find it in my notes. Michael, is it in my notes? Yeah, here it is. Okay. Well, Michael Ruiz actually identified that gun holster. He was able to. Well, they think they have an investigator who was able to identify that gun holstered. Will that be helpful as well?
- [46:48]
Maureen O'Connell
Yes, but it could be very old. You know, it could have belonged to his mother in law's great uncle. Who knows?
- [46:56]
Ashley Banfield
Could have been stolen, too.
- [46:57]
Maureen O'Connell
Yeah.
- [46:58]
Ashley Banfield
So the video. Clearly, this is not the only video. I mean, things happened before and after the things that we saw. And so I wonder what you think about the timing and the release strategy of video. Do you think there's another batch that's going to be dropped our way to keep the tips coming in to keep the public interest on the story?
- [47:20]
Maureen O'Connell
I don't think it's going to get dropped to the public because that's been nothing but trouble for the case. And the person that we hold most dear in this whole investigation is Nancy and then her children after that. So they're the only people we really feel we owe information to. But for the sanctity of the case, I wouldn't even do that anymore because unless it's something that, you know, has a really good picture of his face.
- [47:52]
Ashley Banfield
I would release that or some kind of body behavior. There was an investigator from Connecticut who spent 25 years as a police officer and so did his brother, also a professional hockey player. So he has lots of skill in body dynamics and also skill in investigations. And he said to me, body slamming, body slamming and injuries. And he said he'd heard somewhere that this guy might have had knee surgery. I don't know. But he said he was very interested to see how the guy leaned over to pick up the shrubbery. He couldn't bend his right leg. He had a straight right leg when he bent down. I don't know that that's so odd for somebody who's younger. They might be. They might find that very easy to bend that way. But did it strike you? Interestingly, no.
- [48:37]
Maureen O'Connell
I. I heard everybody saying that. To me, it was more a case of one of two things or both. He had skinny jeans on over his regular pants or something because he was wearing. It looked like double of everything else. He had way too much, way too much clothing on. I think we can all agree with that, and gloves and everything. But I also thought he was high. He looked absolutely high to me.
- [48:56]
Ashley Banfield
Tell me about that.
- [48:57]
Maureen O'Connell
He was calm. His. His face was completely relaxed. His eyes were relaxed, his hand motions. Everything was slow. He bent over in a weird way. He. You know, he goes over there and just rips out a handful of foliage and then goes back to the camera. And it just. It just seemed to me that he was high. And I'm not saying that because he was high. He didn't do it because a lot of people that are high commit crimes. So I don't know, I just thought. And by high, I mean smoking some weed to calm down before he does this dastardly deed.
- [49:32]
Ashley Banfield
What do you make of the theory? I've been trying to work through this. When he brings that vine that he pulls up from the, you know, the garden, he's got it tightly grabbed in his fist. As he's what everyone says, trying to cover the camera. I have a different feeling about it because there's such a narrow opening between the camera and the bracket that it's on. It's. It's literally about the width of a quarter. And you can't get your fingers in there if you're trying to dismount or disconnect, especially when you have two pair of gloves on. Yeah, right. When you got the thick gloves on. I'm wondering if he wasn't holding that with the fists in order to get the vine in between there and yank, if that might not be the motion that we're seeing.
- [50:16]
Maureen O'Connell
Yeah, but that's. He could very well have been doing that, but it's moronic.
- [50:22]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah. Is it ever?
- [50:23]
Maureen O'Connell
Yeah.
- [50:24]
Ashley Banfield
Piece of tape.
- [50:25]
Maureen O'Connell
Yeah. He's got all that clothing. He doesn't have any string on him or anything or tape or. I mean.
- [50:33]
Ashley Banfield
Well, unless the idea is, is that he absolutely wanted that thing off and thought that he might be able to do it with his own hands and realized it's a little tougher than that. And what my source said was that those cameras were smashed, and I don't know that the vine worked. The camera. Well, the video that the, you know, the authorities gave us stopped at that point, but I. I suspect that may have continued to a point where he got something bigger and stronger and smashed the camera off its mountains.
- [50:59]
Maureen O'Connell
Deb, what if he manhandled it? Would. It would have come right off. How many times have you. Or I tried to pull something and then I'm like, oh, my gosh, I can't do it. This thing is stuck. And then my husband just goes up and just Manhandles it and it's off and broken.
- [51:13]
Ashley Banfield
You know, that's what I thought he was doing at the beginning when his hands were sort of. It looked like they were tightening up and gripping at one point. But again, you can't get in between there with your fingers. It's hard to get between the bracket and the camera. And so I just wondered if maybe he thought he could do it. He realized it's too skinny in there to get your fingers. Maybe the vine didn't work. And then ultimately it was. Ultimately, it was smashed. As my source said, the cameras were smashed.
- [51:36]
Maureen O'Connell
He may have been high on gambapentin or whatever that is, or oxy, because that makes you do those kind of slow, dumb moves, you know.
- [51:47]
Ashley Banfield
Interesting. Talk to me about the blood drops. I. I keep going over scenarios in my head, and none of them works, given the fact that there's no. There's no smears, there's no sign of struggle in the blood drops. There's no footprints. There's no. There's no drag marks with the blood. And I'm trying to figure out what possibly could have happened where Nancy is dropping blood in those patterns without any struggle at all around her.
- [52:18]
Maureen O'Connell
If she was being dragged out by her under. With him, with his hands under her arms, and she's facing away from him, and he's dragging her. And all of a sudden, when they get out the door with the jumbling around, her head turns, everything that would be in her mouth and her nose would just go to the ground right there. But then we might see drag marks, I don't know. But that rug, that mat that's in front of the door, that absolutely should be taken and should be. It's a little late now, but it should have been taken to the lab, and it should have been examined. And I understand that their initial thought was it was a missing person. And they get a lot of these calls, and that's a lot of the work that they do, is looking for people that have wandered away from their homes. So, you know, we can beat them up all we want, but I would have taken that rug for sure. Could you have drag marks on that rug you would have been able to see?
- [53:21]
Ashley Banfield
And Michael Ruiz said that there were glass fragments down below, which might support the theory that the camera was actually smashed. He said that that's what he spotted. Which leads me to the number of people who have been in that vestibule on those tiles. Pizza delivery guy, Flour deliveries have. Pool guys have shown up. Multiple detectives, several reporters. So, yeah, I guess you're right. The rug, now that welcome mat, is it useless? Is some of that forensic evidence now so compromised it's not even useful for analysis level in the prosecution?
- [53:56]
Maureen O'Connell
I mean, it would be hard to get a lot of that stuff admitted. But I wouldn't say it's useless because drag marks are very specific and leave very distinctive marks. And if there are heel. If there are drag marks, like two heels consistent with someone. Her weight, you know, it might be. It might be a good. A good clue.
- [54:20]
Ashley Banfield
You know, the other thing is that my mom is 87 and. And she lucky, very lucky. And she can. She can get cut very, very easily. Her skin's very thin. She can bang up against the table and be bleeding. And it's a lot. Right. Because she's blood thinners as well. And I wondered if. If maybe Mrs. Guthrie had a small injury and it did produce that sort of amount of blood, but that she was literally being marched. I mean, because you're not going to really argue with the gun. Certainly not at 84, you're not going to argue with a gun. You can be pretty compliant.
- [54:52]
Maureen O'Connell
If she hit her arm inside the house, they'd have blood inside the house. Also, may. Might not be a lot, but based on what we saw outside, it should have been more than it is. That's why I think that it was. Whatever it was, was contained in her mouth and sinuses maybe. And when the head turned, for whatever reason, it all just poured out into that location. People are also talking about the blood stopping at the end of that stair or moving on a little bit forward. As we saw in the. In the last couple days, they were saying that the droplets actually did continue. Yeah, continue for a little bit. But that could just be a matter of putting a towel or a shirt or pulling something out of that backpack that was packed with God knows what and placing that over her face so she stops bleeding. Because the last thing any kidnapper wants is to bring a person who's bleeding into their vehicle, whatever the vehicle is. But that's why I think that there was a tarp or something in that backpack. And I think that guy was probably going to end up being hired by somebody to go in and just. Just drag her out and bring her over here or whatever.
- [55:58]
Ashley Banfield
I had my thoughts about that being a. Being a hired gun, that guy.
- [56:03]
Maureen O'Connell
But we got to give him credit. He got her, you know.
- [56:06]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah. My source said that there is blood inside the house as well as outside the house.
- [56:10]
Maureen O'Connell
Okay.
- [56:11]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah.
- [56:11]
Maureen O'Connell
And maybe she did hurt herself and.
- [56:13]
Ashley Banfield
And the other thing I can't get. I can't get past is my, my source said that the back door was wide open. Some people say wide open for unlocked. Some people say wide open for standing wide open. And I don't know the difference. Yeah, but that, that's where I'm trying to sort of get my head around how this crime was committed. I almost wondered if Nancy Guthrie was, you know, out cold asleep at 1:47am and that Dingle, dingle happens on your phone. There's motion at your front door. And she reaches over and looks at it right at the point where all of the foliage is dangling in front of the camera, and she's wondering, is that an animal? What is that? Puts the phone down and goes to the front door to open it and take a look. And maybe that's how he got in.
- [56:58]
Maureen O'Connell
I would say, no, no, I mean, seriously, the first thing, if I were 85 years old and I heard someone at my door, first thing I would call is the police or my daughter, son in law, if I were.
- [57:09]
Ashley Banfield
But if you thought it was an animal because you saw the dangling, I.
- [57:11]
Maureen O'Connell
Don'T care if it was an animal. I wouldn't care if it was a, a horse. I'm not, I'm not opening that door.
- [57:17]
Ashley Banfield
You know, I agree with you. But she is, she was different. I read about her decisions to get the ring or the, you know, the nest cameras and said that it was less about security and more being able to see animals in the night. Wildlife.
- [57:33]
Maureen O'Connell
I don't know. The only reason that guy went to the front door was to disable that camera. I think, I think his marching orders were disable the camera because there's no way that guy was getting into that front door. That's a gated, that's a gated door or screen door, what we call a burglar door. And behind it is a very thick, wooden, like Spanish style door. I've kicked down doors in my life. I've been with teams that can breach just about anything. That's a very. Those are two very difficult doors to get in. So I think he was just disabling the camera and then he went around the back of the house and that was whoever hired him or whatever. Whoever, however he got there, goes to the back because that door would be a lot easier to break in. But it begs the question, if they kick that door in, is there a chance that it wouldn't show signs of forced entry? Maybe. I don't know. I don't think so. But it hasn't been clarified to us whether or not it was forced entry.
- [58:33]
Ashley Banfield
But my source said forced entry. And when the sheriff was asked about that, he said, I'm not confirming or denying that.
- [58:41]
Maureen O'Connell
Okay.
- [58:41]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah.
- [58:42]
Maureen O'Connell
So my guess is he went in through the back. I don't know. You know, going into people's houses in the middle of the night is a very high risk situation because you don't. You can't see anything. I mean, they may have a bag of trash by the door that you're going to trip over. I mean, it's not. It's not an easy situation. So he must have. He must have had intel or been in there before or something. That's. That's my thought. So he goes in the back, and then he gets her and whatever for 41 minutes. And then he goes to the front because the car's out in front.
- [59:15]
Ashley Banfield
And I see. I keep wondering, is the car out front? Because if you're going to try to stay out of sight, you got a nice place to tuck in at that garage at the back. And there's that little pathway from the garage through to the back door. So if you're gonna. If your plan is to take someone out, live or dead, that is a better and easier way to do it without anybody seeing who might be driving by.
- [59:37]
Maureen O'Connell
Okay. But we didn't see the tire impressions that would support that. So I would say that the car was in the. In the front, in the circle driveway with its lights off, that it got up to the house or they drove by a little bit earlier. They didn't have their phones with them or had them completely disabled because even a flip phone would ping off of something. But then I was also talking to a friend of mine that was a national asset on the cast team for the FBI, the cell phone analysis or computer analysis team. And he was saying that that area is so hard to get in and out of. And I heard a law enforcement officer describe the roads as almost like spaghetti noodles going all over the place. It's very hard to figure out where you're going. So did they. Did they go old fashioned and use a compass or what? Or did they turn another phone on as they. When they got lost a couple blocks away? I don't know.
- [60:34]
Ashley Banfield
Did they know their way, or did.
- [60:36]
Maureen O'Connell
They know their way that well?
- [60:38]
Ashley Banfield
Thought about what you just said. If somebody was using ways to find their direction to Nancy Guthrie's house at that particular time of night, that would be traceable, wouldn't it? The FBI could get that.
- [60:49]
Maureen O'Connell
Absolutely would. Because it's pinging off everything. That would absolutely be.
- [60:53]
Ashley Banfield
So anybody who had to use any kind of directional help that they could go, they could get that. And would they be getting that? They think. They think of that, right? They would be looking for that now, wouldn't they?
- [61:01]
Maureen O'Connell
Oh, absolutely. 1, 100%. This, this, these forensic teams that the bureau has, they're just magicians. I'm not kidding. They're just unbelievable. They think of everything.
- [61:14]
Ashley Banfield
Speaking of that, Brian Enten reported something so interesting tonight. He said that signal sniffer, a signal sniffer, I'd never heard of that. It was sent in and was affixed to one of the skids on the helicopter that was circling overhead while he was doing live shots yesterday afternoon. And Matt Murphy, homicide prosecutor from California, had said to me, I would like to see them take Nancy Guthrie's phone and, and move it all around the neighborhood because it will reconnect with her pacemaker. And we looked it up, and it's actually 10 to 30ft. Within 10 to 30ft, the Bluetooth would reconnect. And so this apparently might have been the effort with the signal sniffer to detect Nancy's pacemaker. I mean, talk about magician work.
- [62:01]
Maureen O'Connell
It sounds like just a fantastic tool. I would love to see it in action. But again, you've got to be so close, you'd have to grid that place out in little 10 foot wide, you know, squares, and you're only about 10 or 12, maybe 20ft off the ground. That's hard with all the big cacti and everything else. Even the shrubs are taller than that, some of them.
- [62:25]
Ashley Banfield
I mean, if you're flying a Hilo 30ft above street level, you are nearly chopping off the antennae of the car. You know, it's really. It's really close to be 30ft above street level, isn't it?
- [62:41]
Maureen O'Connell
Yeah, but it also. It also shows the level of dedication and the risks that people are willing to take to bring this woman home to her family. I mean, I cannot imagine what Savannah and her brother Cameron and her sister Annie are going through. I just can't. I'm surprised we don't find them wandering out in the desert by themselves looking for her, you know?
- [63:05]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah, I can't. None of us can put ourselves in their shoes. And I often try to think of it, if this were my mother, I don't know what. I don't know know what I'd be doing. I honestly, I can't even imagine it. And I don't even want to go there with my mind. It's just so terrible to think of it. Last thing I want to ask you about is the. The very white roof. Neighbors had pointed out that Mrs. Guthrie's roof was very, very white. And in the desert, there's only one reason it would be really white. A hell of a rainstorm that cleaned it off from the desert dust or a recent painting. And so I can only assume that any. Any paint contractor has been looked at and not just recently, because I heard from another analyst that sometimes these guys will go back years. Like, they'll think of people they've worked on a year ago, and they'll target their victims from work they did a year or two prior.
- [63:59]
Maureen O'Connell
Yeah, well, you don't want to target someone whose house you were just at three weeks ago, because then you're at the top of the list. You know, if it takes them that long, long to get down there. But I didn't. I didn't know that it was that much wider than every other roof, but it was clean. It did look very good. I know a lot of people, like, you know, when you're in a fire zone, you always keep your roof clean. That was part of the problem here in California. There was just dried up foliage all over the place. And they say that you've got to remove that. And I have an uncle who's actually 84, who goes up on his roof to clean his roof and gutters out. Oh, my God. When we find it. But he was an iron worker for.
- [64:40]
Ashley Banfield
You know, you can't change them. You can't change an iron worker. I said, last question. And I lied because I actually have two more. Matt Murphy again used the phrase DNA is a dirty word. And it means DNA, depending on the source, can be remarkable or can be, you know, very average. Touch DNA found in, say, the front hall of Nancy Guthrie's home could be the FedEx guy whose Dutch DNA was on a package that came into her home and dropped on the.
- [65:09]
Maureen O'Connell
On the floor or on the kitchen counter where the. The. The grocery delivery guy exacts the groceries every single time. Right? But if.
- [65:17]
Ashley Banfield
But semen and blood, those kinds of things are incredible sources of DNA. But. But that's why he says DNA is a dirty word. So everybody who's so excited about hearing about this, so, you know, this mystery source of DNA, put it in context, right?
- [65:31]
Maureen O'Connell
Or someone else's saliva on her pillowcase, something like that. That's, you know, the whole thing we're doing with these search warrants is trying to tie a person to something within that house. And Whenever to. To walk you through it, like when we're doing a dope warrant or narcotics warrant, we would go in and we would find, let's say, a bunch of methamphetamine and everything that goes along with it. We're trying to figure out a way we interview people. Who's. Who's room is this, who stays in this room? Who else does he allow in this room? You know, we try to really tie down the fact that this person was right there. And so those. Those are the things that go through a law enforcement officer's mind when they're walking through houses, and that's that. The other. The other thing I wanted to say to you was, you know, when those officers first showed up, I'd be interesting. It's going to be very interesting for me to hear how everyone was acting and reacting according to what we've heard so far. Everything they said and did was very appropriate. But they're leading that whole walkthrough. They're saying, well, is your mother's car keys. Are there. Are her car keys here? Oh, yes. She keeps her car keys over here, and this is where that is. And every day, this is her iPad. And her iPad always comes with her when she goes here and there. And then she reads it at night, every night in bed. And they, you know, so they. They're got. It's like a tour guide through the house of where everything is, where it should be. Is there anything missing? That's going to take a while. And. And so there was a lot of movement in that regard, but that could be overcome by a good forensics team.
- [67:13]
Ashley Banfield
Okay, last question. Honestly, last question. We are only 14 days in, and, you know, these kinds of cases aren't like television. They're not solved in an hour in the grand scheme of things. 14 days, people are screaming from the rooftop, how. How could we not have found Nancy Guthrie or solved this case yet? But from a law enforcement officer's point of view, put that in perspective.
- [67:39]
Maureen O'Connell
Well, we have to be patient. And. And I'm saying that as a person who has no patience when it comes to this stuff. I never had patience. I have to always slow myself down. Like, I got so excited the other night when they arrested or they detained that one person. And then last night, I just couldn't go to sleep. You know, I couldn't sleep because, oh, please bring her home. Wouldn't that be a miracle? And then someone said there was an ME truck there, which turned out not to be the case, and that, you know, it. This is a roller coaster. And a lot of big investigations are, but this one is one for the ages. And I have never ever seen, experienced, worked, or even heard of a case like this before.
- [68:25]
Ashley Banfield
That's saying a lot.
- [68:26]
Maureen O'Connell
So we have to have patience. We have to have patience and show grace to these people that are working so hard and pouring everything into this. I mean, you know, there's 14 days that I'm not saying anyone is, is complaining about being tired or working too hard, but I mean it's, it's, it's 14 days of being away from your family, missing your kids, games, everything, which we understand that's the job and we do it and we do it with an open heart. But it just, it does take a toll on you, especially with these roller coaster up and downs, the emotional up and downs and cortisol dumps and then, you know, and then peak and dump and it's, it's, it's no wonder we like a glass of wine or a glass of whiskey after work sometimes, you.
- [69:12]
Ashley Banfield
Know, and a God, Maureen, thank you so much. So there's where we leave it. Another like busy day and a Saturday that we didn't think was going to be a busy day. And yet. How many pages of notes? 6. 6 today. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for watching. Please subscribe and remember, the truth is not just serious, it's drop dead serious.
- [69:36]
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