← Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Idaho 4 | Inside the Horror: Steve Goncalves Breaks Open New Details from the Night of the Idaho Student Murders
01:05:55
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- [00:00]
Steve Gonzalez
Foreign.
- [00:05]
Ashley Banfield
Hi everyone and welcome back to Drop Dead Serious. I'm Ashley Banfield and I've got a bonus episode for you today. It's very special. A lot of breaking news that I've just discovered about the Idaho student murders. We've kind of been living under a rock honestly for two and a half years because of the gag order. This one's been pretty broad and much of what happened in Idaho is unknown to us. But slowly these documents are dropping and we're learning really kind of alarming details about what happened at 1122 King Road. And I've just had a very long interview with Steve Gonzalez, Kaylee Gonzalves's dad. And he has told me some things I never heard before. For instance, he's just told me that his, his daughter was beaten very badly by this killer. Struck in the head, in the face multiple times, her nose was broken and the blows were so severe that Steve says that his daughter could easily have died from the blows to her face, let alone the knife wounds that she sustained from this knife wielding sadistic killer. That's something I never knew before. Documents also dropping in the case telling us that the girls, Bethany, Dylan, Maddie and Kaylee all got together at 2 o'clock in the morning upstairs in Kaylee's room. They were all having sort of a girl chat and they were contemplating going out again, leaving the house and going out back to the food truck. Just having another secondary night out at 2am And I just think about what, what could have happened if only. Maybe they would have been back before 4am when the murder struck. Maybe not. But they decided ultimately not to bother. And we knew that because of a call to an Uber driver. Another detail that absolutely gobsmacked on this one. All this time I have thought that the girls and the friends called 911 because they couldn't open Zanna's door and they couldn't get Zanna and Ethan to respond to the knocking. Zanna, wake up. Ethan wake up. As it turns out, Zanna's door was open and we know this now because of a document that's dropped where Bethany describes running frightened, having spotted someone who looks like Bryan Kohberger in the house that night, running frightened down to Bethany's room in the basement, but running past the hallway where you could kind of peer in down the end of the hall, Zanna's room and saw Zanna lying on the floor with her feet towards the door, head towards the wall. And she thought she was just drunk and passed out, but she ran Past Zanna dead. Now she's quite a ways away. It's hard for me to guess the feet, but maybe 20, 30ft down the hall and through the open door. And that also Bethany saw Zanna lying in that position. And they did not obviously think of the horrors that were really, you know, had transpired in that room. They thought that she was just passed out drunk. But it is incredible to now know that Zanna's door is open. The killer left that door open. He didn't shut it behind him and lock the bodies in the room. No, they were there. They were visible. And two of the surviving roommates saw Zanna's body, but did not know it was a dead body. They just thought she was drunk and passed out. And they were afraid. They were so afraid, they didn't even want to come back upstairs. I mean, that's what's so incredible, is that the girls were downstairs. They locked the door in Bethany's room. They spent the night, and they were too afraid even the next morning to come back upstairs. And they called their friends to come over. And one of the friends came over, Hunter. And he went upstairs and went to the kitchen and got a kitchen knife, fearing there might still be someone in the house. That's the level of fear. That's why the girls didn't come back up and inspect. Going up to Maddie's room, Kaylee's room, Zanna's room. They thought there might still be someone in the house. And they could not understand why their roommates weren't getting back to them. And it's that Hunter who. Who made the discovery and shielded the girls from seeing anything closer than what they'd already seen. Okay, so that's another revelation. And then the fact that Brian Kohberger, according to Steve Gonzalez, some people who worked in the classroom with Bryan Kohberger reported back to Steve Gonzalez that. That Brian took the day off after the murders. So the murders happen on a Saturday to Sunday morning. And then you see the selfie at 10am Bryan Kohberger standing in the shower. And it's the Monday that he apparently called in sick or took the day off from working in the classroom. It's another detail we never knew. And then another. This one hurts. It seems to be a weird trend. Sick. Sick people go after crime victims. We've seen it. We've seen it with Shanann Watts's family. They've been tormented for years. She was murdered. Pregnant. Shanann Watts was murdered by her husband, Chris Watts. Their two little girls were murdered by dad stuffed in oil tanks and the family of Shannan has been relentlessly and ruthlessly attacked by online trolls. That there's just this weird trend. Right? Right. Turns out the Gonzalez's are, are feeling this too. And one of the attackers, one of the online attackers is a school shooter from Georgia. So the worlds collide. All of this is, is coming but I wanted to read a couple things from court documents that I thought were so incredibly telling. So this is the, the quote, the quote from a court document about the fact that the girls were all chatting, having a girl talk up on the third floor and, and contemplated going out at 2am leaving the house again at 2am at approximately 2am they met up in Kaylee's bedroom and talked for a while before going to bed. The fifth roommate, Zanna Kernodle, who was out with her boyfriend Ethan Chapin, was not home yet. The roommates debated going out to the food truck for a late night snack, prompting Dylan to send a text at 2:10am to an Uber driver that she knew to see if he was driving. Ultimately, however, the girls decided just to go to bed. I don't know why that one feels so heartbreaking to me because I think just if they had gone out and stayed out even later, course of history would have changed. Here's something else. This is more of the court documents regarding both of the girls, Dylan and Bethany, seeing Zanna prone, lying on her floor. This is how the documents describe it. Dylan again tried calling Kaylee and Zanna, but neither responded. Dylan then exited her room and began running towards Bethany's room. On her way, she noticed Zanna lying on the floor of her bedroom with her head towards the wall and her feet towards the door. Dylan thought Zanna was drunk. Once Dylan arrived at Bethany's room, they locked the door and both made additional unanswered calls to the other roommates. It's amazing. That's the worst she thought, right? Oh, my roommate passed out drunk and there's crazy stuff going on in the house and I'm scared. I don't like this going downstairs to Bethany's room. So the next morning there's a lot of texting that went on in Bethany's room and ultimately they ended up falling asleep. Girls had had a lot to drink. They wake up and at 11:50am this is six minutes before the 911 call, by the way. Dylan calls her friends Emily Allant and Hunter Johnson because she wants them to come over and help. She's too afraid to go upstairs and see what's going on. You know. So this is what the court filing reads about this. Emily and Hunter met Dylan and Bethany at the bottom floor of the house together. Dylan, Bethany and Hunter started to walk up the stairs to the second floor. When they reached the second floor, Hunter went to the kitchen to grab a kitchen knife. So this next part that I'm going to tell you is from Dylan's grand jury testimony. When Hunter came back out, Dylan, quote, and this is Dylan talking, saw Zanna again for a split second and just started bawling because she thought she just like, I don't even know. I thought maybe she was still just drunk and asleep on the floor. Bethany also saw Zanna lying on the floor. Hunter told Dylan and Bethany to get out. Emily, who had started up the stairs, also turned around. After Hunter instructed her not to come any further. They both went outside. Shortly, Hunter exited the house and told them to call 911. He was pale white and mentioned something about someone being unconscious. So they did not bang on a closed door. I imagined that 911 call and I could hear Hunter saying, dylan, or rather Ethan, Ethan, Zanna, Zanna. And you can hear that. You can hear the knocking. I'm thinking they're knocking, knocking on Zanna's locked door. They are not. It's possible they're knocking on the wall way down the hallway. They see Zanna lying and they're banging on the hallway. Guys, Guys, wake up. Wake up. And it's only, I think, Hunter, according to Steven's Elvis, it's only Hunter who ends up going close enough and getting in and seeing his friend Ethan, who is now, you know, tucked out of view. It's only Zanna's body that's in view of the doorway. Maybe it was dark in there. Maybe all the blinds were pulled and they couldn't see the blood. But there was so much blood that it was leaking out the foundation. So it is just a remarkable sequence of events that we all thought we knew and we did not. I had this incredible conversation with Steve Gonzalez about all of these things and also how he is doing. Because we are now in the final stretch, Steve, when these documents drop and just layers of information that we've been waiting for suddenly are in our fingertips. Do you and Christy and the family get advance knowledge? Do you get a heads up it's coming? Does someone walk through it with you and help it to land in a more sensitive way?
- [11:17]
Steve Gonzalez
There is times where they will reach out, especially when they know it's something that's a little hits home if it's going to say stuff about Kaylee. I would expect them to come out, but we, you know, we. There's been some back and forth a little bit to tell them, you know, prepare us more because our phones are going to ring, we're going to see people. We all work. I work at a, a hospital, so there's probably four or five thousand people there. So, you know, it's good to let us know what's going on so we don't accidentally say something that doesn't make any sense because we don't know what's coming out. And somebody's just seen it and they're, they take advantage of you not knowing what's going on, or they don't, or they assume, you know, and you just say something wrong because you not fully understand what's going on. So it's back and forth. But they've gotten better. And I really like the team. They're good human beings. Everybody that's been working there is really impressive.
- [12:22]
Ashley Banfield
And that's the prosecution team?
- [12:24]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah, the prosecution team and investigators. Everybody that's involved in this case has been really, really good to us.
- [12:30]
Ashley Banfield
Do you have, like, a liaison, someone in particular who's your appointment?
- [12:35]
Steve Gonzalez
There's, there's, there's, there's a victim advocate, but it, I'll be honest, they don't work. When you, once you leave the county that you're in, that victim's advocate doesn't know the court like they, they normally would. So a lot of times we hear before they hear. There's times where we've actually contacted them about, wow, things are going on. And they're like, no, that's not the case. And, and we're like, fortunately, it is, there is, there's a, it was an ex parte hearing. And we're like, are we, are you guys going to the ex parte? What's going on about it? And they won't even. Because they're not supposed to be there. So they were never informed. And we're looking at the dock three or four times a day at least.
- [13:20]
Ashley Banfield
You know, they also don't, they also don't know Steve Gonzalez. And I'll be honest with you, look, I've done this, this job for a long time, and everybody's different. Everyone processes being a family member of a crime victim differently. And even in this instance, some of the family members are very separated from this process. They don't want the updates. They may not even come to all of the trial. So it's just everyone processes differently. Do you ever Think about that in terms of how the other families in you are all going to get together in. In August and July and then September and October, and how you're gonna be together in this. In this process.
- [14:07]
Steve Gonzalez
I mean, a little bit, I. I've met people just like last time at court. I met some people that are part of the case that I'd never seen before, some parents of the survivors. So, you know, I have five children, so I expect people to behave differently. I expect people to have different ways to process. It's. It's nothing new to me. I've said this before. My brother just reminded me. He's like, our name means built for battle. Gonzalez means built for battle. And maybe that's just the way I was built. I wasn't gonna. I wasn't gonna let this turn into a case where it went cold or there wasn't somebody. There was times where people would call me and say, will you do an interview? And I'd say, I can't. And they didn't even do a story on it. And I remember going back and watching. I said, what. I wonder what the story's gonna be, though. They didn't do a story because they didn't have someone to talk to. So I said, you know what. What my daughter's gone through, Mattie Mae went through, the least I can do is, you know, make myself sit down and. And communicate and keep people focused on the case. And I don't take it lightly that Anne stretched this out, made me go across the state of. Of Idaho, seven mile, seven hours each way. I don't take that lightly. And Shannon, my lawyer, told her job is to get everyone to forget. Her job is to stretch this out so long that the witnesses don't even remember what happened or they're not crisp on that stand. So nobody says you have to sit back and take it. So I'm not going to take it. I'm going to come forward, and I'm going to keep it fresh. And there's a chance to keep it in the media and keep people focused on it and say, hey, what. What is going on? Did that guy get away with it? You know, they get back into the story and put pressure on, you know, everybody that we hold this case to the, you know, fullest extent of the law. And, you know, people don't like to talk about it, but sometimes, you know, people have to pay the ultimate price for the crime that they committed.
- [16:15]
Ashley Banfield
It's a long. You just mentioned it's, you know, six, seven hours to drive To Boise. Are you in the family? All planning to be there for the entire duration? It's going to be about what, three, four month trial?
- [16:26]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah, that won't, we won't be able to do it like that. We have, you know, grandbabies and, and, you know, everyone's got their big family, so we'll rotate and that's a lot of time off from work. So I'll fly back and forth. I'll work with the hospital to make sure everything's in place. But yeah, I don't expect everyone to be able to be there every day, but we'll always have somebody for the family directly there and then get some of that information from the prosecution team one on one, and then relay that back. You know, that's the thing, is there's nothing like getting information directly from the court because then you don't have to guess, you know, and then that's why I've always said is like, you guys don't have to tell me inside information, but if you can give us talking points that are safe, that are accurate, and you know, this is what's going to happen going forward, then, and we can point people back to the court docs and, you know, that's obviously the best information you're ever going to get. But for a good two years, we had no court docs. So look, everything was sealed.
- [17:31]
Ashley Banfield
I mean, you've been kept in the dark, you know, as. And we've been kept in the dark as know we should be in a lot of this circumstances, not in all of them. I'm not a big fan of Hooded Justice. I'm a fan of open process. It's what makes us different than a lot of other countries I've been to. But I just always think about how much harder it is for you and the people who deserve to know, the people who shouldn't be in the dark and for this long of a process. So, I mean, just, I'm sending you a big virtual hug here just to let you know that we are aware that you are going through more than most people can understand. And that brings me to what we're learning today. I mean, more details I did not expect to hear, and they're kind of confusing. I'll be honest with you. The story that the surviving roommates tell in these documents is that they actually saw Zanna. They saw her lying down in her room. So the door had to have been open. All this time, we've all been imagining that Zanna and Ethan were behind a locked door and that's why no one could get to them and thought, there must be something wrong. We'll call 91 1. Was this a surprise to you to hear this detail?
- [18:46]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah, I actually talked to Hunter a little bit back, very beginning, and I remember him saying something about the doors. And I, not knowing the details, thought he was speaking of the outside door. So now, you know, now looking back, I. I said, oh, the door being open. He was referring to the bedroom door, not that outside door, because there was reports of the outside door being open. And I was like, okay, so that's true. I just got. That's how you can get things wrong. You know, somebody tells you the door is open, you assume it's the front door, and it was actually the bedroom door door. So, yeah, we tried to stay away from anything, but that. That was new information. That was an eye opener. But, yeah, I. I cannot. You know what? I just imagine her booking her tail off, going down those steps as fast as she possibly could, seeing something out the side of her eyes and just running all the way down the steps. So I'm sure she's seen something, but it wasn't like a slow motion, like looking and staring and poking through. At least my girls would be too scared to do anything like that.
- [20:02]
Ashley Banfield
Well, and the way she describes it as little information as we have is that she thought this was Zanna on the floor, just drunk. I mean, look, these are college kids. This is what they do. The worst thing that maybe their minds might go to is that somebody may have had too much to drink or, God forbid, might have OD'd, but no one's mind would have ever gone to what actually happened. And even then, the level of fear was really high. You know, Dylan is running downstairs to Bethany's room scared, in the middle of the night. She's seen a guy in the house. But the level of fear, which is high, is nowhere near what was really happening. Do you know, that's the thing, that 2020 hindsight is all great, but in that moment, this kid is just. She's a. She's a still a kid, right? I still think of these guys as kids.
- [20:57]
Steve Gonzalez
Well, I know when I was 19, I made some stupid, crazy decisions that make no reflection on the person I am today because I just didn't have life experience. So I give the same grace to anybody who's probably under the age of 25, to be honest, especially for guys. I know girls start making more logical decisions earlier in life than at least I did. But I know guys can, you know, get A get a guy in a motorcycle or a pickup truck out in the dirt roads and you'll, you'll question, question their logic. So yeah, yeah.
- [21:36]
Ashley Banfield
The other surprising detail that just gave me a lot of pause was the fact that the girls were all upstairs in Kaylee's room talking. You know, the roommates, Bethany and Dylan and Maddie and Kaylee at 2:00 in the morning, they'd all been out, they'd all come back, except Zanna hadn't come back yet with Ethan. And they were all talking, as you know, college kids do, night is still young at 2am and they were thinking of going back out again, going back out to maybe go to the food truck and get, you know, another, another round of late night food. And I just was sort of gobsmacked by this moment of how possibly things could have been different. Have you gone over this sort of theory in your mind?
- [22:25]
Steve Gonzalez
You know what? I have, but it's hard for, I can't go there really. I don't try to think of all the what ifs. What I try to think is, is what's the positive aspect of this. And to me it makes that timeline that much tighter. It proves that DM was in the house, sent a text to the same driver that Kaylee used, which is a friend of the house that they've all used. It backs up all these narratives and things that I know to be factual and it helps put another piece in the puzzle. And that's one thing I've always said is if you're innocent, you want the evidence to come out because the evidence is going to prove it's not going to fit you. You're going to be able to be like, well, they got all this evidence, I'm innocent, so it's not going to fit me. So let's just rip through this evidence and figure out where I can say that's not me. But in this case, there, that's not what they're trying to do. They're trying to get everything tossed out because every piece of information, whether it's DM contacting the driver and saying, hey, are you still around? Which backs up a story that, let's be honest, the 19 year old didn't know. They're going to go throw her phone, they're going to track it. There was this cast system, they're going to go all through this house, know when they went upstairs, went downstairs, they didn't know any of this. And they're not talking about cleaning up a murder scene. They're not talking about, what do we gotta do? They're literally just girls being girls, sitting on a bed, talking, laughing, talking about, let's go get some food, let's not go to bed, it's two in the morning, let's go have some more fun. And I'm sure they were very close to doing just that. And it's. Unfortunately, they didn't. But on the one side is, it's. It makes that house a little bit clearer and people know a little bit more what was going on.
- [24:23]
Ashley Banfield
Yeah. I mean, and honestly, the what ifs are hard on this scenario as well, because it's 2:00am and if they'd gone back out to the food truck, they might have been back by 3 or 3:30. And this monster, his timeline was 4am so it may not have made difference, but it is just sort of an alarming thought that there was an idea to maybe leave the house. And who knows what, what might have happened. There's also details that you've learned from, you know, your conversations about the situation that presented itself on the third floor when this killer perpetrated his crimes. You've learned that. That Maddie was killed first and then your daughter. What was the scenario that was laid out for you?
- [25:19]
Steve Gonzalez
We wanted to know where she was at and how. How this happened, as much as they would be able to share with us. And they said she was in bed, and we're like, her bed? And they're like, no. So we're like Maddie. Because that's not unusual. They crash out in our house all the time together. Four or five of the girls sleep in the same bed. It's. I don't know how they do it, but so we got those details and then we just, you know, kept asking and, you know, it's the last moments of your daughter's life. And, you know that some of that information could be helpful to the case. So, you know, you want to make sure that you know enough that you could be helpful if there's a certain thing in the room that was missing. You know, things like that. Do we have pictures that they don't have access to that, you know, Maddie Mae's room lays out like layouts of the room, you know, if it changed things like that. So, yeah, we learned that they went for Maddie first. And then Kaylee. Kaylee woke up. Kaylee showed signs of fighting and, or a fight. I. I don't know really what, somebody waking up with somebody stabbing you, how much fighting you can really do. But then this, this monster struck her multiple times. And Those were injuries that I was told that only she had in the, in that room. I don't know about the other, the other people downstairs, but that was one of those details where we kept to ourselves because people come forward and say, oh, I know exactly what happened that night. Na, na, na. And we, he'll be like, so describe what happened to Kaylee. And they couldn't do it. So that was something that helped us. And I really appreciate, you know, Mabbit for sharing that information. And I know a lot of people screamed and yelled and, you know, put a bun of pressure on her, but I, I give her a hug and tell her thank you a hundred times over for putting some finality in the last, you know, moments. It's, it's not fair for parents to have to wait two to three years to understand what happened to their kids. Talk about cruel and unusual punishment. I mean, nothing's crueler than to be told that you don't get to know what happened to your child. And all these other people in this courtroom get to know, and they're complete strangers, they don't even know your kid, and they get to know all about this. It's, it's, I, yeah, it's not a, I'm not a fan of that, but.
- [28:01]
Ashley Banfield
I'm always hoping that when I learn things, I'm learning it second after you. Obviously, I've always felt that it's just so unfair if family members hear from the press details that no one had shared with them prior. And it does happen. I mean, it does, it's not a perfect system. But this was a call you had with the coroner, right?
- [28:22]
Steve Gonzalez
Yes, it was, yeah, multiple calls. We, we had more than one.
- [28:26]
Ashley Banfield
Did she share any other details?
- [28:29]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah, she, she did share some details, but those are, yeah, it just, they have to come out to me and we have to talk about it and then, so I don't want to say something that was just words on a phone, you know, I, I, I'd have to know more details before I could share all the stuff. But I guess the best I could do at the time was say that Kaylee's and Maddie's didn't match their, their damage. I wasn't trying to say one had more or one was other. I just was trying to say that they don't match and I could share that information, but I still wanted to respect the courtroom and respect the process, the process of this. But I'm not going to reward two and a half years of dragging this on. You know, eventually you got to just Let the truth come out. And, you know, that's why. That's part of the reason why I. I start letting some things come out that I can, because Hippler's definitely opened up the sealed docs at a much better pace. That makes you feel like that. That will at least get to. We'll get to this courtroom and have some idea what's going on. We don't have to sit there and get hit with unknowns over and over until you can't even process it anymore. I mean, it's. The whole court process has nothing to do with the parents, has nothing to do with the victims. It's all about the person who did this and their rights. You know, the fastest way.
- [29:58]
Ashley Banfield
That's Judge Hippler you're talking about, who's taken over the case from Judge.
- [30:03]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He took it over, and he took it over with vengeance. And he had a mission to get this thing back on track, because realistically, we went two years without a schedule. I mean, they would literally be in that courtroom and saying, what do we got to do to get to a schedule? And then they'd say, well, you're gonna have to make decisions on the schedule. And then we would leave. And they say, well, we're gonna have to make a schedule. And. And so we're not doing that anymore. We. We got somebody here who can make decisions right there in the courtroom. And I appreciate that. And it's. It's something that we had to have. We had to have somebody come in there and start getting through this and setting some, you know, timeline. So it's. That's. That's a positive.
- [30:47]
Ashley Banfield
But I think you. You mentioned some of the details that, that the coroner. I had a conversation with the coroner early in the case, and she shared with us that Zanna had some very, very severe defensive wounds. Like Zanna had fought very, very aggressively with this killer. And I think that the coroner may have shared something with you about some of the injuries that. That Kaylee had, right?
- [31:18]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah. Yeah, she did. And she was. She was struck in the face. Her nose was broken. It was multiple hits from what I've been told and tried to be careful with my words. But the blows that he sustained, delivered to her would have killed her.
- [31:42]
Ashley Banfield
Really?
- [31:43]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah.
- [31:44]
Ashley Banfield
If the. If the knife wounds hadn't, the blows would have.
- [31:48]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah.
- [31:50]
Ashley Banfield
Is there any other detail that the coroner shared?
- [31:53]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah, there's. There's definitely other details, but I'm going to let them have the opportunity to release that information because I don't want To. I don't want to overstep them, but, you know, it sounds like it's about to come out, so I'm looking forward to that.
- [32:12]
Ashley Banfield
Anything that you can share that wouldn't compromise the case.
- [32:16]
Steve Gonzalez
That's the thing. That's why I always ask for more communication, because it's things like this where we're like, you know, you can tell us a safe thing to. To. To bring up, and you can tell us when this stuff's going to come out, or you could just let us figure it out on our own. Because I told him, you met a father who's not going to. I'm not going to marry Maine. Silent. Not over this. My daughter would expect me to stand up for her, and that's what I'm going to do. And I'll go to jail if that's, you know, if that's what it comes down to. If you're going to arrest me because you need me to be silent and think, I'm going to protect the guy who killed my kid. I'm never going to protect him. Once I knew that he was guilty and that wasn't right off the bat, it took me a considerable amount of information in facts before I made a decision that, all right, they got the right guy. And then at that point, it was just, what can I do to help? How can we. How can we get this over, get this process started, let people know that the evidence and the facts are there, and then we can just get this done.
- [33:30]
Ashley Banfield
Because there was a time I did have a conversation with you, a couple of conversations, I'd say, like a year ago, where I feel like you really were concerned that he was going to get off like you. You were starting to really question the evidence, the case against him, the case that. That Ann Taylor was building. Is that accurate to say that you started to really fear.
- [33:55]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah, there was fear. There was. There was such a lack of leadership in the courtroom. There was things that were just going all over the place. And no, nothing was. Nothing was really getting done. So, yeah, I got nervous there. I had insight on. On. On things that are still not public. I knew. I knew a lot of different things that I just didn't understand why you would hide such strong evidence. And so, you know, you start wondering, something else going on. Do they just want this case to go away to where, you know, let's just get it out of the community, protect the businesses. And once we're out of the community, we'll make a plea bargain and keep everything sealed, you know, you know, maybe once the plea bargain's done, some of it comes out, but by then, nobody even cares, you know, and that's just a father just trying to struggle with how this process works. And maybe I was wrong. Maybe I was over, you know, nervous or just wasting my time worrying about things that weren't going to happen. But I. I didn't know, you know, I just knew that a case shouldn't be going in the direction that it was going. And I was like, we. We got to do something. And, you know, I feel like it got back, but it. It took leaving that community, which was a. Something. We thought we wanted to keep it there, so. But in the end, it was what was needed.
- [35:25]
Ashley Banfield
Let's talk about this detail that you've learned about Brian Kohberger. We were all shocked to see the photograph, the selfie that was snapped just hours after the murders in front of his shower. But you've learned what he did after that. What was it?
- [35:45]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah, I learned about a tally of some girls that were having conflicts and feeling like he was doing things that were making them very nervous, following them outside of the classroom, standing in front of the door, forcing them to go around him, basically forcing interactions. And they were just trying to do everything to avoid him. So they. How I understand it, they communicated this to management structure there. They said document things. They started documenting that. This tally that they put together. And from that.
- [36:24]
Ashley Banfield
What is that called, you're saying a tally? What was that?
- [36:27]
Steve Gonzalez
I thought it was called, like, the Brian tally is what it was described to me as.
- [36:32]
Ashley Banfield
I'm not sure. Is this the place he works?
- [36:34]
Steve Gonzalez
Yes. Yes, this is. This is the classroom in which he's, you know, a teacher.
- [36:39]
Ashley Banfield
Aiden, you know, that's the name of the classroom. I hadn't heard that name before, but that's what this is. So this is basically the classroom where he is working. He's making everybody feel uncomfortable.
- [36:49]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah. And the tally is when they went to, you know, I don't know if it was hr, but they went to people in. In the school that. And said, hey, this. I noticed something. This girl knows something, but it's still kind of hearsay. So then they're saying, document it. The time, the place, the things, a witness, those type of things. So they did do that, and that was going on. And that's how we found out that he missed school Monday after taking that photo where he looks. Doesn't look sick to me, but what does that give him? That gives him a whole day to, like, go over figuring out how they're responding to what he's done. So he could sit there glo and Google search, do the same things we were doing to try to figure out what was going on or continue, if.
- [37:43]
Ashley Banfield
He'S the guilty party, continue cleaning up, continue making sure that there's not a trace left.
- [37:49]
Steve Gonzalez
Well, I hope and I suspect that the searches that he did before the 911 call will do him in. The, the activities that he did before anyone knew what happened. Those will be the final nail in this case.
- [38:09]
Ashley Banfield
Well, for a criminology PhD, doesn't seem very smart. I mean who buys a knife and a sheath and a sharpener online and has it delivered to your parents house? And who goes after a killing where the sheath is left behind and the murder weapons disposed of to find a replacement knife and sheath online? Who does that?
- [38:34]
Steve Gonzalez
I think even if you're somewhat intelligent, your human instinct, you know, you start racking your brain and you started worrying like what if the doc, you know, if the cops knock on my door and say, well, we couldn't help but notice you bought one of these. Where's yours at? You wanted to have one. You want to be like, here it is right here. It's in my fishing tackle box. You know, some story he was going to make up.
- [38:58]
Ashley Banfield
But, but that makes sense. Just buying it yourself online. I mean online purchases is 101 in criminology. WHO is this guy? How could he possibly be in a PhD program?
- [39:13]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah, and, but I've heard that he tried to hide that with a gift card that was given to him. He thought maybe he could avoid the transaction by using a gift card and then deleting all this history and deleting all the proof that yeah, it was associated with this count.
- [39:34]
Ashley Banfield
But yeah, did you hear that.
- [39:37]
Steve Gonzalez
There'S some documents out there that talk about him deleting his Amazon history.
- [39:42]
Ashley Banfield
But the gift card part, where'd that come from?
- [39:46]
Steve Gonzalez
You know, it's been two and a half years. To be honest, at the top of my head, I don't know where I heard the gift card. Yeah, I don't know.
- [39:56]
Ashley Banfield
Not sure if it's authorities or if it's just sort of in the reporting sort of ether.
- [40:01]
Steve Gonzalez
Not even sure. I don't, I would definitely not say the authorities because I don't want to, I don't want to tie their hands to say that they gave me something that, you know, isn't an official doc. But yeah, I definitely heard about the gift card. But like I said, I've heard of a lot of things Because I've had a lot of ears and a lot of eyes, and I did a lot of calls and answered a lot of calls, investigated, talked to WSU employees, talked to UI employees, talked to basically anybody who's willing to help a dad out. And there was a lot of people in the community that were willing to help me.
- [40:36]
Ashley Banfield
What else do you know that I don't know? That at this point, you're sort of at the leading edge of it and the fountain of information is starting to flow. The gag order, we are soon to see pretty much gone. The documents are dropping. But what else is it that you know that we don't know?
- [40:59]
Steve Gonzalez
I'm not sure. I'm not sure what everyone knows. I just, I just know that there is other aspects of the case that they're, they want to drop that hammer in the courtroom and that, that's, that's where, that's where we're at. I can't share too much, but I, I think it's coming out. I think, I think Hitler strategy is by the day we go into the courtroom, some percentage in, probably in his head is going to be out. And I, and I've kind of heard that that came from the media pressure. The media themselves, who had a challenge to the gag order, basically said, you know, this is not something that is, is in law. Like gag orders are for national security. Gag orders are not usually for an everyday crime in a state. I mean, this.
- [42:01]
Ashley Banfield
Well, they're getting more popular, Steve. And let me tell you, I have been on a tear about the increased use and the broad range of the gags over these cases. And there's always the same excuse we've got to protect the rights of the defendant. I get that. I get that. But if O.J. simpson could get a verdict of not guilty with the amount of coverage on that case, arguably there's never been another case that's been as highly covered as O.J. and Michael Jackson. Same thing. There was a case and Beretta. I mean, case after case after case, you can say highly publicized cases, has still returned not guilty verdicts. So it's hard to convince me that a lot of publication can damage the defendant. Sometimes it can work in their favor.
- [42:56]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah, for sure. I believe if you're innocent, if 100 helps you, and even if there's not a case that is very strong, the facts, you know, as stuff comes out, you know, you should be able to combat it. I, I don't know what a gag order really does, but to protect somebody who's guilty I mean, if the facts of the case, as they come out, if those make you look guilty, you want silence, you want to hide it, you want to keep it, you want to keep it out. But most people would just be like, throw them out, and I'll prove them. I'll knock them. I'll knock them out of the park. Is inaccurate.
- [43:37]
Ashley Banfield
The fear is the poisoning of the jury pool with facts that may not qualify to be entered into evidence in the trial. And yet there they are. They know it anyway because of the media. But I keep going back to OJ Please. Plenty of things were suppressed in the OJ Case, and it was all over the press. Karen Reed is another case. There's a case that is at retrial now, and it is a constant. I mean, there's docu series, there's dramatic series, there's all sorts of coverage on Karen Reed, and she had a hung jury, so we'll see what happens this time. But I'm not one of those people who believes that a gag order serves American jurisprudence. We pride ourselves on having such a pristine, open, honest and transparent system of justice in this country that everybody gets a fair defense, and if you're guilty, away you go. But you get your defense, you get your day in court, and that's something we should all be very proud of. Is there a detail? Is there a fact pattern, an area in this case that you got blind spots, and you are waiting? You're. It is the specific area that you want resolved, the most details that you're waiting for the most?
- [44:53]
Steve Gonzalez
You know, I've always questioned why there wasn't more warrants on certain things, things that have came out. I. I follow the warrants because the warrants kind of, I feel like, are like the cheat code to figuring out where the truth is. When you hear these suspects but there's no warrant related to them, then you can kind of toss those out. So I've made inquirers on certain things, like why have we not heard a warrant about this or that? You know, maybe accounts for my child, things that I know personally about. So those are just. Just trying to make sure that the case is perfect and everything is right. Probably just me worrying for no reason. But those. Those are the type of things that, you know, I'll ask Shannon to reach out and say, hey, can we make sure that they know about all these accounts and, you know, clarify everything, but.
- [45:45]
Ashley Banfield
There isn't something forensically like, I personally keep thinking, how did the killer get out the sliding door of the kitchen, get to the car, get into the car, get to wherever the dumping ground was to get rid of the bloody clothing, the knife, and all the other implements of the crime and get back to an apartment. And if it's Coburger, Co Burger's apartment, all without leaving a, you know, a forensic trail that was, you know, a beacon of blinking lights because that didn't exist. And I keep wondering what. What did that killer do to hide those tracks so. Well, it's what.
- [46:26]
Steve Gonzalez
What if I said the killer actually wrote what. What he would do? Because Brian wrote a paper saying how he would go into a crime scene and not leave any evidence in that crime scene. So I think you just need to read what he wrote. He wrote exactly what he did, and he probably did more. Who knows what he learned in that Reddit post where he interviewed criminals that got caught or got away with different crimes. And, you know, I believe he incorporated those into his night of action. So I think he came to that slider, opened it up whatever way he did, left it open, left some things outside at that slider. Part of his kit, part of his. His plastic bag, whatever it was, went in, did his thing, was covered in a Dix Dix Dicky outfit from neck to toe. Had this hood thing on that. They also got that coming to his house. You, if you attack this guy, you wouldn't scratch him, you wouldn't be able to get your hands on him. The only place would be his eyes and gloves on. I don't think. I think people underestimate. If you know what you're doing and you want to go in there and you're. You got a mission and you've been planning it out, you can get into that house. I've seen the models. I've seen the 3D models where they're in and out sometimes in like five minutes. So there's a couple of them, depending on the path that they take. But yeah, I mean, when you really watch a timer and you see the amount of time that this person's been in the house, he had more than enough time. And then he got right back out. I mean, his door to the slider is the same technique that he used the doors into the room. He just didn't want to touch anything. He went in there with the plan, studied. I mean, he spent years and years in these classes just reading and admiring, really just admiring these other killers. And he was basically planning out to do his. His version of what they did and not. And incorporate what they did and their mistakes and try to be that Much better than them. So I think that's what you're going to see. You know, he went in there, had a plan, did what he did, and then he bailed and he build and he had a shovel in the back car. I would assume that the shovel had something to do with wherever he went. He buried that thing and got rid of that. You know, maybe he had plastic on the seats, maybe his trunk was lined with something. Tosses it all in there and he's gone. And the path that he took there isn't even street lights. I mean, it's dark, dark roads and nothing but fields. Open, open farm fields that he could drive. And water, lots of lakes, lots of water too. So I don't think once he got to that door, he was gone. He was gone.
- [49:26]
Ashley Banfield
Do you think again, if it's Bryan Coburger, I have to say that because he's got his day in court, he's innocent until proven guilty. But if it's Bryan Coburger, do you think he, or when do you think he chose his victims.
- [49:45]
Steve Gonzalez
We wonder? Like I honestly, my personal thing is he probably did it in Pennsylvania when he, when he gets the murder weapon, you know, when he sends that to his house, he's made a commitment internally that that's what he's going to do and that's where he's going. And I think that there's murders out here, you know, in this area, the Northwest, that intrigued him. And some of them, the people were never caught. You know, there's like a Lewis and Clark killer. Got away with five, even killed somebody from U of I. And then was never, never.
- [50:19]
Ashley Banfield
But when do you think he chose this house? And these kids.
- [50:24]
Steve Gonzalez
With social media could have done it long before, but it really comes down to like how in tune he was with. I personally believe, think he was listening to 911 calls. I think he had an ability to listen to those calls. And he was just being a fly in the wall for a few weeks and figuring out what was going on, where the parties at, where were the girls at, what were things going on, where were the cool popular kids at? And then he just started doing his thing and started doing a surveillance and he started driving around like at least 23 different times. He was driving around a dead end road. You know, you can say he was shopping, but you know, good luck trying to convince us all that you were out shopping.
- [51:13]
Ashley Banfield
Have you heard, have you heard any information that he was driving around any other home? The number of times that he was driving around 1122 King Road. Like, did they have police ever said, we've discovered other surveillance where he spent an inordinate amount of time around another house or another location?
- [51:34]
Steve Gonzalez
No, no, they have said that he spent an enormous amount of time around that address. And I think maybe that's what they were trying to say when they said this was targeted. And I feel like those, those were weird words to use. It made it sound like the kids were involved in something that made them targeted and started a bunch of rumors. But I think it was targeted because they were doing that cast system and that dump let them know exactly how many people were in that area that really weren't supposed to be there. They could see normal traffic, normal, like roommates and people that were supposed to be in those apartments. And then they could start seeing, okay, this is somebody that's leaving, coming across the state line at a really unusual time. And they started, you know, it's a process of elimination. Who's in this area during these late nights that might not belong here. And I think that's, that's what's what they're going to show. And I think they're going to show an extensive, like, sometimes minute by minute timeline where they know exactly where he was at and they correlate that with cell phone activity with the girls, what they were doing, where they were at. People. You know, that cast system for all those girls has all been there. The only, only records that were missing were, were for the person who turned their phone off, which again, who turns their phone off it three in the morning in a college town to go.
- [53:08]
Ashley Banfield
Stargazing, to go start.
- [53:10]
Steve Gonzalez
And like we said, where's your stargazing app? You know, if you're out there, you got this, this app that identifies these stars that you're staring at. Don't play us like fools. Don't, don't just expect us to think you're just walking around clicking at the sky.
- [53:24]
Ashley Banfield
Well, that's when the reasonable nature of a juror comes in. Right? Like, what's reasonable to you? Is that reasonable? You know, does that really sound like your gut feels good about that? And jurors are usually pretty good at that st stuff. Let me go back to something you mentioned about. I think you said someone reached out to you who had taken one of Brian Coburger's Reddit questionnaires. Is that true?
- [53:48]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah. Yeah.
- [53:49]
Ashley Banfield
Talk to me about that.
- [53:52]
Steve Gonzalez
We actually got a ladder letter on that one. And then in the letter was a number to call. This individual said that they had been called. They got The Reddit. Somebody called to survey them on crimes. And he was like, I felt like I was getting set up by the cops. So I was just like, I answered it kind of like over the top. He's like, I. I kind of embellished some stuff, kind of pulling the cop's leg. Hung up. This guy calls me back a couple days later and we start talking again, and he goes. And I start feeling like this guy's like, enjoying how I was describing how I was getting away with, like, how I selected my victims. And he said, so I told him, you know, I knew these neighborhoods that had a lot of money and somebody might drink a little too much wine, somebody might make a call to 911 over Niles complaint. Somebody goes to jail. And when that man went to jail, I'd go to that house, surveil it, and if it looked like there was somebody in that house that was no, you know, passed out, I would go rob that house. And that's how he picked his, his. I don't know, his victims, I would say. And he would rob them from jewelry and I don't know what you do nowadays. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but maybe cash or something. But he would rob them. He said that Brian seemed to Joe his story, called him a couple times. He said he was so odd about it that when this case came forward, he was like, I know exactly what this is about. I'm going to reach out and, you know, maybe. Maybe he's pulling my leg. There's been plenty of people who have sent us stuff that weren't accurate, but it always stuck with me. It already stuck with. There's certain things that stick with you. That one was one of them. And, you know, there's other stuff that, that we've. Other letters that we've given back to the prosecution and said, we don't even know what to do with this, and they've taken it.
- [56:01]
Ashley Banfield
So that was my next question. You, you shared that with prosecutors. They were interested to. To hear from these people?
- [56:08]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah, I don't know where it goes from there, but, yeah, we've definitely given them the letters. And it's kind of a. Kind of like. It just seems like it's a din in. You never hear again. I was hoping I'd get my letter back, but no, no, we never got anything back. And I've never seen anything like that in the list of evidence, so it probably turned out to be nothing interesting.
- [56:31]
Ashley Banfield
How are you doing? I mean, we're two and a Half years. We're down the final stretch here. Steve, you're only a couple months away from jury selection.
- [56:40]
Steve Gonzalez
It's a new feeling to know that you're coming to the end of something that, you know, it's been two years of your life, over two years of your life. And, you know, try to think like, what should we do as a family? Should we go on a vacation? Should we do something? Like, how do you. How do you have a next day of your life when your life's been invested and so dedicated to one thing? You know, it's not just me and my Kaylee's sisters are super dedicated, and everybody's worked on this case and been like, you can't let your mind go. So, yeah, we're trying to figure out something, but we, we have to start planning now that, you know, it sounds like some subpoenas went out. And I would think if they're going through, that the trial is going to happen when it's supposed to be happening.
- [57:31]
Ashley Banfield
And who got subpoenaed?
- [57:35]
Steve Gonzalez
I. I can't say who got a.
- [57:36]
Ashley Banfield
Subpoenaed, but, like, family members.
- [57:39]
Steve Gonzalez
So people got subpoenaed and basically told them they need to be available for court. So I think if that came out, then we're going to be sticking the, the schedule that Hitler's put out. And that's what I really appreciate because we've, we've got a lot of money invested in where we're going to stay. And we were well informed by media that there was going to be a rush for, for houses that would be large enough for my family. And so we got that. So hopefully, you know, we can show up and everything happens on schedule. So we're not, we're not jerked around anymore. But, you know, some people are trying to say that they need more time, even though they've taken more cases on and they should have never done anything like that after they strung us all across the state of Idaho. And now the truth.
- [58:32]
Ashley Banfield
But, you know, that subpoenas have gone out. That means that there are dates that they're looking more likely they're going to lock in.
- [58:40]
Steve Gonzalez
Yep, yep. And that's, that's, that's what I got looking forward to. So, you know, maybe I shouldn't look forward to it because once we go to court, it's. Who knows what that's going to look like.
- [58:52]
Ashley Banfield
But it's the end of the tunnel, you know, and it's. It's been a long, dark tunnel, that's for sure. And you deserve to be out of it. You all deserve to be out of it. But I agree. I don't. I don't know what the answer is. What's on the other side for. For you and your family, this has been a. You've. You've had a new identity for the last two and a half years. What will it be after?
- [59:13]
Steve Gonzalez
And I've. I've told people before, but my wife and my daughter, Kaylee and Maddie, they all love that true crime stuff. And I always thought to my back of my head, like, I ain't gonna get caught watching any of that stuff because that. That's somebody's real family, that's somebody's real dad, or somebody's real mom, or that's their wife, you know, and lo and behold, it happens to me.
- [59:37]
Ashley Banfield
So one thing I will say, at CrimeCon, I had a real epiphany from John Ramsey, JonBenet's dad, and he said that he would avoid a lot of that for a long time. He thought it was so macabre, you know, and then he realized when he was at CrimeCon, how many people loved him and how much support he had and how many people are dedicated to justice, you know, like, the real true crime fanatics are in it. Not everybody, but a lot of them, a majority of them are in it for the justice. And that made him feel a lot better. He suddenly felt a sea of love that he didn't even know existed before. And that made me feel really good. I felt for a guy who's been through what he's been through for 30 years, made me feel a lot better for him.
- [60:30]
Steve Gonzalez
Yeah, I'm sure.
- [60:30]
Ashley Banfield
You're in the club, right? You're in the club.
- [60:32]
Steve Gonzalez
And I'm sure that guy had even worse than most. My most. Because at least I got another guy that, you know is actually responsible. But, you know, I get a ton of hate just because I'm. I'm vocal and I'm out here saying, hey, let's get him and let's go for him and let's get the evidence out and all this. So it brings a ton of hate my way. But that guy, I imagine he had a really, really tough go at it. So I feel for him.
- [61:03]
Ashley Banfield
You're getting a ton of hate.
- [61:05]
Steve Gonzalez
Oh, yeah, we. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Anybody who says they're going for, you know, the guy who did it, there's always these people that think he didn't do it. So they come after you because you're the source of some of the information. I mean, if I just go away. Maybe there's an easier path for him to, you know, keep, keep his name out of the, out of the press and keep people, they forget about it and you know, there's witnesses out there. Maybe they, they forget about it and they don't realize, you know, they move on with their lives and you know, we don't get justice.
- [61:45]
Ashley Banfield
What kind of things are they saying.
- [61:48]
Steve Gonzalez
We get, we get people taking pictures of our house, posting them online, threatening us. I've had to call up cops to come do surveillance around my house. Yeah, I mean there's, there's all, I don't even want to tell you all the things that, that, that's happened. We made a police report in Boise last time we were there because I don't want to give these crazy people any more ideas on how they can mess with us. And if I described what they did, I've probably just given a couple of those weirdos more ways to come after us. But you know, I think they relate a lot with Brian and you know, deep down inside they see like a kindred spirit. And there's some people that, you know, they have a vendetta against judges and judgment and cops. And so there's this maybe like 95% are here for all the right things. They want to see like an old fashioned movie where it ends. Right. And then there's this 5% of people that are like, I'm not one of those cool kids that got killed. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a loser. I, I, I quit everything. I do drugs, I'm addicted, I've got all these problems and I'm, I hate people. And you know, you hear it, you hear it. I mean, you literally hear that from these people that do these horrible mass murders and school shootings. You literally hear them say that. So I think, and we know for a fact one of them, that Georgia Gray kid. Georgia the state, his, where he did the school shooter. His last name was Gray. I don't, Colt Gray, I believe. I hate to even say these kids names. I don't want to give them any platform, but it could be confusing. People always think, well, you're not being clear when you don't give this information out. But so this guy, you know, he was a BK fan and he made threats to our family.
- [63:33]
Ashley Banfield
So yeah, the Georgia shooter, the school shooter made threats to your family.
- [63:38]
Steve Gonzalez
Yes, that's what we were told. He made an open thread or a forum threat saying if the Gonzalez don't shut their mouths, we should shut it for them. And this is a guy who ends up going killing people.
- [63:52]
Ashley Banfield
Well, I, I know justice is coming your way and, and you know, I. There's nothing I can say that will ever make it feel better. I, I see it myself in the work that I do. There's this underbelly that has become so filthy and vile over the last 20 years. I don't know where they came from. I don't know why they exacerbated. I just know that they got a tool in the Internet to help them be loud and vocal. And thank God it is a minority because you don't deserve that. I'm really appreciative of this. Steve, thanks so much.
- [64:26]
Steve Gonzalez
Thank you.
- [64:28]
Ashley Banfield
My great thanks to Steve Gonzalez for talking with me on this podcast. I've had a lot of conversations with Steve over the last couple of years and usually they're on live television. You don't get a whole lot in a six, seven minute segment. It's sort of formal and stilted. And I felt he was very candid. He let his guard down and he spoke very honestly and openly about the experiences that he and his family and some of the other families are going through. I think we all have to remember this right as we cover the story, as we are sort of transfixed by what happened at 1122 King Road. We always have to remember what this is like for them. Yes, we're finding out details. When they're finding out the details, it hits different. So it's just something for us all to keep in mind. I want to thank you so much for being with me through this podcast, watching on YouTube, listening on any of the platforms where you get your podcasts. I so appreciate it. I always want to hear from you. Please like and subscribe so you don't miss things like this, this bonus episode. I'm sneaky like that. I drop them just every so often. And it seems like lately it's been a lot of every so oftens. So I don't want you to miss an episode. And I also like to hear your comments, your suggestions. Make sure you leave that behind. Tell me what you like, what you don't like, what cases you want us to cover as well. And remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.