Inside Diddy’s Trial: TMZ's Harvey Levin Breaks It Down with Ashleigh Banfield

Summary

Podcast Summary: Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield

Episode Title: Inside Diddy’s Trial: TMZ's Harvey Levin Breaks It Down with Ashleigh Banfield
Release Date: May 8, 2025

In this compelling episode of Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield, host Ashleigh Banfield engages in an in-depth conversation with Harvey Levin, the founder of TMZ, to dissect the high-profile trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs. Drawing from Levin's extensive experience in media and courtroom dynamics, the duo delves into the intricacies of jury selection, media influence, and the broader societal implications surrounding the case.

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1. Introduction to Harvey Levin and the Diddy Trial (00:05 - 03:13)

Ashleigh Banfield opens the episode by highlighting her longstanding relationship with Harvey Levin, praising him as a media mogul who has pioneered platforms like TMZ and The People’s Court. She sets the stage for their discussion by emphasizing Levin's deep investment in Diddy's trial and his unique insights into the courtroom proceedings.

Notable Quote:
Ashley Banfield (00:05):

“Nothing gets past Harvey. And one of the stories that he is really invested in is Sean Combs trial.”

2. Jury Selection Concerns (03:13 - 05:14)

The conversation shifts to the composition of the jury in Diddy's trial. Banfield raises concerns that the 45 potential jurors may not adequately represent Diddy's cultural background or the hip-hop community. Levin responds by challenging the notion of "look like they’re into hip hop," asserting that hip-hop culture is pervasive and crosses various demographic lines.

Notable Quotes:
Ashley Banfield (03:13):

“If you're my age and your age, we remember a lot about the early days of Diddy, Right? The JLO days.”

Harvey Levin (02:40):

“So, you know, this notion that hip hop is one small group of people, to me, is ridiculous.”

3. Comparing Diddy’s Trial to O.J. Simpson’s (05:14 - 07:13)

Levin draws parallels between Diddy's trial and the infamous O.J. Simpson case, highlighting how external factors like Simpson's football fame and previous legal battles influenced jury perceptions. He posits that unlike Simpson, Diddy lacks the "leg up" of pre-existing public sentiment shaped by events like the Rodney King verdict.

Notable Quotes:
Harvey Levin (05:14):

“There is no doubt in the world. I covered the Rodney King case. I covered the OJ Simpson case. It was absolute payback for Rodney King...”

Ashley Banfield (05:18):

“That's the dynamic. Right?... I don't know if Diddy's got that kind of, you know, of a leg up.”

4. The Role of Race and Societal Movements (07:13 - 10:20)

The discussion delves into how racial dynamics and movements like MeToo might influence the trial. Banfield raises the possibility that the current societal pendulum may work in Diddy's favor, countering the narrative dominance of MeToo advocates. Levin agrees, emphasizing that race will play a significant role, especially in a diverse jury setting.

Notable Quotes:
Ashley Banfield (06:48):

“...race is gonna be a huge part of this case.”

Harvey Levin (06:48):

“But how much race becomes a factor, I think is gonna be huge.”

5. Jury Diversity and Potential for a Hung Jury (10:20 - 12:47)

Levin speculates that the diverse jury pool increases the likelihood of a hung jury, which could be advantageous for Diddy's defense team. He references the Karen Reed case as an example and suggests that a hung jury would allow the defense to prepare more thoroughly for a retrial.

Notable Quotes:
Harvey Levin (07:23):

“The more diverse the jury, to me, the more of a chance of a hung jury.”

Ashley Banfield (08:17):

“So, yeah, Karen Reed all over again, right? Totally.”

6. Influence of Social Media and Media Coverage (12:47 - 16:15)

The impact of social media exposure on jury impartiality is a focal point. Levin expresses skepticism about the effectiveness of jury sequestering in the age of pervasive digital media, drawing parallels to the Charles Manson case to illustrate potential biases introduced by external information sources.

Notable Quotes:
Harvey Levin (24:39):

“Once it's there, okay, once it's there, do you close it? It's sort of like driving past an ambulance.”

Ashley Banfield (17:38):

“Let me ask you something about Diddy's appearance in court...”

7. Defense Strategies and Legal Costs (16:15 - 22:10)

Banfield and Levin discuss the strategic decisions of Diddy's defense team, including the likelihood of Diddy taking the stand, which Levin deems highly improbable. They also touch upon the exorbitant costs associated with assembling a top-tier legal defense, estimating upwards of $100,000 per day.

Notable Quotes:
Harvey Levin (19:18):

“He's gonna have. I think he could have real problem with that because it doesn't involve really force or coercion or anything.”

Ashley Banfield (38:23):

“What do you think it's going to cost Diddy, this defense.”

8. Courtroom Appearances and Media Constraints (22:10 - 32:36)

The episode explores Diddy's courtroom appearances, focusing on his attire and the lack of visual media in the trial. Banfield criticizes the reliance on sketch artists instead of live media coverage, arguing that it fuels speculation and misinformation among the public.

Notable Quotes:
Ashley Banfield (22:43):

“Just ask Anna, you know, Delvey.”

Harvey Levin (24:17):

“I think that kind of makes sense. I think it makes sense.”

9. Judge’s Role and Legal Boundaries (32:36 - 35:27)

Levin analyzes the judge's approach to maintaining courtroom decorum and impartiality, especially regarding attorneys' conduct on external platforms like podcasts. He references the Shepard v. Maxwell case to underline the constitutional importance of an unbiased jury.

Notable Quotes:
Harvey Levin (35:06):

“Only the defendant does.”

Ashley Banfield (35:04):

“As an officer of the court.”

10. Conclusion and Future Discussions (35:27 - End)

As the episode wraps up, Banfield and Levin tease future collaborations, including weekly panels on Tubi. They emphasize the ongoing nature of the trial and invite listeners to stay engaged through various platforms.

Notable Quotes:
Ashley Banfield (39:38):

“Love you more. It's always a pleasure.”

Harvey Levin (39:27):

“We're gonna get some inside scoop on stuff.”

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Key Takeaways:

• Jury Composition: The diversity of the jury could lead to varying interpretations of evidence, potentially resulting in a hung jury.

• Media Influence: The omnipresence of social media poses challenges to jury impartiality, raising concerns about pre-trial biases.

• Race and Societal Movements: Racial dynamics and movements like MeToo are expected to significantly impact the trial's proceedings and outcomes.

• Legal Strategies: Diddy's defense team is likely employing sophisticated strategies to mitigate biases and manage public perception.

• Courtroom Media Access: The absence of live media coverage may contribute to public speculation and misinformation regarding the trial.

This episode offers listeners a nuanced examination of the multifaceted elements influencing Diddy's trial, enriched by Harvey Levin's insider perspective and Ashleigh Banfield's incisive questioning.

Transcript

[Ashley Banfield]

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Drop Dead Serious. I'm Ashley Banfield, and I have such a treat for you today. And I'm actually not sure if it's more of a treat for you or more of a treat for me. Because for a billion, zillion years, I have known Harvey Levin, the founder of tmz. Hey, go way back. He's the founder of the People's Court. Harvey. Harvey and I have had a very, very long relationship. And I have always looked to Harvey as the model of how to create media business. Whether you watch TMZ or whether you were into courtroom shows on daytime tv, you know, Harvey started them all. And he's also just a really astute guy. Nothing gets past Harvey. And one of the stories that he is really invested in is Sean Combs trial. So I had an opportunity to sit down with Harvey for a very in depth conversation, not only about the trial, but the players. Because let's face it, everybody knows tmz, and TMZ knows everybody. They also tend to know everything. So with such an inside track on so many of the issues that are gonna be coming through that Diddy courtroom, I could not wait for this conversation. So here we are with Harvey Levin. Harvey, the diddy jury. They hit the magic number. What? 45. They've got 45 people that they can choose from and start, you know, using peremptory strikes. But the complaint that I'm hearing from insiders in the courtroom is that the 45 don't look like diddy. They don't look like they're into hip hop. They don't reflect black culture. Do you think this is a problem?

[Harvey Levin]

Well, I mean, there are black potential jurors there, and I don't know what look like means these days. There are, you know, hip hop crosses all boundary lines. So, you know, I gotta tell you, I was really struck today. We got video of the judge coming into court, and I had not seen this judge before. Had you?

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah, I have. Yeah.

[Harvey Levin]

Well, I mean, I watched this guy come in and he's wearing Nikes. He has headphones, and he has a backpack.

[Ashley Banfield]

I know. I thought he looked like he was like a college kid.

[Harvey Levin]

No, I thought he was an NYU kid that was going to see the trial. And then I find out this is the trial.

[Ashley Banfield]

Just.

[Harvey Levin]

And the fact is, look, he's 45 years old. He probably grew up listening to hip hop. So, you know, this notion that hip hop is one small group of people, to me, is ridiculous.

[Ashley Banfield]

Well, and you know, Harvey, there's a whole anthology of Diddy, right? Like, there's the Sean John, there's the J. Lo era, there's the Chiroc vodka era, there's the music all the way through. So if you're my age and your age, we remember a lot about the early days of Diddy, Right? The JLO days. And if you're, you know, in your 20s, you've got the Chiroc vodka and the newest part of Diddy. So there's just a lot of people who know him in his different eras, to quote Taylor Swift.

[Harvey Levin]

Yeah. And it's funny you say that, because the era I think he doesn't want people remembering is the JLO era. Because everybody who remembers the JLO era remembers the shooting outside the nightclub and the fact that he went on trial. He was found not guilty, but that's something he probably wants people to forget. So, you know, the eras probably make something of a difference. But again, look, I just don't think this is all gonna make any difference in the case. I mean, look, think about OJ Simpson. Ultimately, did it matter that he was a football player? Did it matter he was a naked gun? I mean, ultimately, people became absorbed with the evidence, with the trial, with the testimony. So I know we're talking about Diddy as a brand, as a person, as a music artist and all, and producer. I don't think any of it's gonna matter, because right now, what we're not about is what everybody's gonna be talking about, which is the testimony, because it hasn't happened yet. But once that starts, nobody's gonna be talking about this. So I think really, it's irrelevant.

[Ashley Banfield]

I was thinking about that, too. Like, I have always said, if you can find a jury for oj, you can find a jury for anyone. Right. But then I've started to really dig into a lot more about the dynamics around OJ's jury decision and the admissions from some of the jurors that it was payback for Rodney King. And that was a whole other thing.

[Harvey Levin]

They.

[Ashley Banfield]

One of them did not during the case.

[Harvey Levin]

No, 20 years, actually. I covered that case. It was absolutely payback for Rodney King. There is no doubt in the world. I covered the Rodney King case. I covered the OJ Simpson case. It was absolute payback for Rodney King and the fact that the LAPD had been really shitty to South Central Los Angeles. So, yeah, they didn't admit that, you know, during voir dire.

[Ashley Banfield]

They do now.

[Harvey Levin]

Well, they do now, but they didn't then. And that's the trick to jury selection.

[Ashley Banfield]

That's the dynamic. Right? Like, that was like, if we look at OJ as, hey, look, OJ Got tons of coverage and still an acquittal. I think it was a different thing because the whole Rodney King preface to it changed the, you know, changed the zeitgeist. I don't know if Diddy's got that kind of, you know, of a leg up.

[Harvey Levin]

Well, you know, I'm not sure how it all cut that. Yeah, you don't have payback in this case. You don't have that. And that was huge in O.J. simpson. So, yeah, he doesn't have that going for him. It is interesting that Agnifolo, we did a documentary on Diddy months ago, and Agniphila was on it. And he said to me flat out that this case was an attempted takedown of a successful black man. And what he said was, they couldn't get him on business and they couldn't get him on taxes. So they went into his bedroom and, you know, and that was kind of the pitch that he was making on the show. And I thought that was really interesting. Everything I'm hearing is, is that they are gonna do everything they can to bring race into this. And it's gonna be part of it. It is going to be part of it. But how much race becomes a factor, I think is gonna be huge. Ashley, I'm telling you, race is gonna be a huge part of this case.

[Ashley Banfield]

Let me just get us into the Trump era then for a whole second, because that may have been okay five years ago, even two years ago, but there's been this pendulum that's come flying back into DEI and race. Some people on the jury are gonna think, don't. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Don't start bringing in race. I mean, that's a possibility.

[Harvey Levin]

It is a possibility. But your assumption is that the jury box is going to be filled with maga, and I don't know that that's the case, and I doubt it's the case in New York City.

[Ashley Banfield]

I mean, New York voted a lot for Trump's principles, love him or hate him.

[Harvey Levin]

But here's the thing about it. In a way, it favors Diddy, because if this jury is really diverse and if you have MAGA supporters there and you have Democrats there, and you're gonna probably have both. If you have black people and white people and Asian people and men and women, you know, to me, it's almost, you know, you know what Rashomon is, You know, that you can take something and look at the exact same thing. And depending on the people who are viewing it, they might view it in totally different ways. The more diverse the jury, to me, the more of a chance of a hung jury. And a hung jury benefits Diddy in a huge way, because if it's a hung jury, then the defense will have seen the whole prosecution case, and nothing will be a surprise the second time around.

[Ashley Banfield]

So, yeah, Karen Reed all over again, right? Totally.

[Harvey Levin]

Totally. And it's a win for the defense to have a hung jury, because now they know everything. And so the more diverse the jury, the more of a chance, as far as I'm concerned.

[Ashley Banfield]

So speaking of leg up, as we were just sort of go back to the OJ Thing, where OJ had the leg up, because he came into that trial with the Rodney King verdict and angry, angry people all across. Many angry black people across the line.

[Harvey Levin]

Well, you do know that the thing the DA did that is just still makes me, you know, just. I'm aghast at what he did, that if they wanted to get a conviction, they should have kept the case where it belonged, which was Santa Monica. They would have had a white jury, and it would have been totally different for whatever reason. Well, I mean, I hear that the reason the DA Wanted it downtown is the DA wanted to be near the prosecutors to help manage the case. But bringing it downtown changed the jury pool. They ended up having 11 African American jurors with a backdrop of Rodney King, and that made all the difference.

[Ashley Banfield]

I wish I'd been sitting beside you. Young lawyer Harvey levin in the O.J. courtroom. Could you imagine the martini lunches we'd have had?

[Harvey Levin]

Say young again, please.

[Ashley Banfield]

Oh, God, look at you. We can't even start getting into, like, makeup and hair tips because you look great. I don't know, whatever it is, whatever you're drinking, people should be drinking. But let me get back to the pendulum that I want to talk about, because with OJ Coming in with his leg up of Rodney King, I'm almost wondering if Diddy comes in with a leg up of the MeToo movement and the pendulum swinging back to sort of crush metoo like Amber Heard and Blake Lively. Is Diddy gonna get this same kind of lift where people are like, okay, enough with the me, too. Enough with the I'm an abuse victim. We've heard too much of it. We heard too much in it. Cosby. We heard too much. Is that gonna be a benefit for him?

[Harvey Levin]

I mean, you know, it's gonna depend on who the jurors are. But I agree with you that if this case were being tried in 2017 or 2018, it would be a steep hill for him to climb there because of that. And I do think the pendulums shifted and swung back, but I don't know who these jurors are. You know, it's interesting because some of the jurors had domestic violence in their families, and they.

[Ashley Banfield]

Lots of them.

[Harvey Levin]

I know, I know. I was really surprised at that. And they got through. So there are still preemptory challenges. But I find that really interesting that as many as there are had this domestic violence history and they weren't booted.

[Ashley Banfield]

Doesn't that tell you something, though? I talked to Lisa Bloom about that yesterday. She said she was heartbroken just watching one after the other in this jury pool being asked, oh, yeah, I got domestic violence in my past. And it became so. It was almost like an answer by rote. And through they went. Because you can't kick them all out, right?

[Harvey Levin]

I think that's right. But, you know, he's lucky it's not being tried in 2017 or 18.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah. I think this is a big part of it. Right. Like, I wonder when that pendulum's gonna come back to the middle a little bit. You know, post Blake Lively, post Amber Heard, et cetera, or if it will. I don't know, but it's.

[Harvey Levin]

You know. But I will say, and I kind of wanna go back to this is that when the trial starts, so much gets reset, you know, that we. All of these things we're talking about now are really interesting, and they are a backdrop and part of a mosaic. But when this trial starts, you know, it's gonna be at least eight weeks, at least. I think it's gonna be three months. But they're saying eight weeks. You know, you just get absorbed in the testimony. You are. You know, it's almost a game where you're trying, is she telling the truth? Is he telling the truth? When. What about that inconsistency? What about this? And they just start to pick things apart, and little things become big things. And, you know, that's what they're gonna be focusing on. And it's not so much that I'm saying, oh, I have all this faith in the jury system that they really listen to the evidence, but they do listen to the evidence. And, you know, for the most part, and they try. And sometimes they get it right, and sometimes they get it wrong, but they're gonna be absorbed. Look, Lisa. Lisa.

[Ashley Banfield]

I wish I had Lisa Bloom's mind. I wish.

[Harvey Levin]

Ashley, this is a Soap opera?

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah.

[Harvey Levin]

I mean, O.J. simpson was a soap opera. Think about this. This has great looking people. It has sex, it has violence, money, it has betrayal, it has money. It has all the elements of a soap opera. So this isn't like somebody filing a slip and fall insurance claim where the juror's eyes are just glazed over. I mean, this is riveting testimony.

[Ashley Banfield]

Good point. Because a lot of the court watchers are saying right now, I can't believe how many of these jurors sound like they want to be on the jury. Most try to say, you know, I can't be fair and biased. So let me go.

[Harvey Levin]

Right, right, right.

[Ashley Banfield]

These people are all saying, sure, I'm in, count me in.

[Harvey Levin]

Yeah. No, I mean, this is gonna be a riveting, interesting trial with high stakes. And I'm telling you, this is not gonna be an issue where people are thinking too much. Look, they may be colored by the MeToo movement one way or the other and whatnot. So everybody goes in with a perspective. But the testimony is gonna be center stage here. It just is.

[Ashley Banfield]

And I think you tell me this, you're in la. That PR teams right now are like a hamster on a wheel freaking out that they've got one of their clients on that list of 100/plus celebrities who are gonna be brought into this trial one way or the other.

[Harvey Levin]

I don't know that they are really, you know, there are no celebrity sex tapes that are gonna be.

[Ashley Banfield]

Now, I heard you say that. Why do you think that?

[Harvey Levin]

Because I know it.

[Ashley Banfield]

Come on.

[Harvey Levin]

I just know it. I mean, look, we are really connected here. I mean, you know, we have allotted sources. There will be no celebrity sex tapes and no minors. And in a way, I gotta say, it benefits the defense.

[Ashley Banfield]

Look, I. Well, before you go there, I agree with you on the minors, otherwise we'd have a charge.

[Harvey Levin]

No celebrity sex tapes.

[Ashley Banfield]

No, I agree with you on the minors because we'd have a charge that would.

[Harvey Levin]

I know, but I'm telling you, no celebrity sex tapes in this case.

[Ashley Banfield]

How? That's the whole story that's been percolating.

[Harvey Levin]

I know, and that's why it benefits the defense. You are way too young to remember this song. You are way too young. But there was a song. Do you know who Peggy Lee was?

[Ashley Banfield]

Oh, my God, yes.

[Harvey Levin]

Okay. Do you remember a big song she sang? Big hit. It was way back. I was a little bit.

[Ashley Banfield]

She had a couple.

[Harvey Levin]

I know. Not Fever. You remember another one. There was a song called Is that All There Is? And that's oh, it was a big song.

[Ashley Banfield]

Can you sing it? Can you hum a few bars?

[Harvey Levin]

I'm not gonna. Is that all there is? Is that all there is?

[Ashley Banfield]

No, I'm not getting it.

[Harvey Levin]

And the idea here is that because the media has spent so much time talking about celebrity sex tapes, because in all these civil cases, they've talked about minors and celebrity sex tapes, and people haven't distinguished between civil and criminal. So everybody's thinking, we're gonna hear about these celebrity sex tapes and all these parties, and we're gonna hear about all these minors. Well, neither are gonna come up in the case. And if these jurors have in their heads that we're gonna hear about all this stuff and they don't, that's where the Peggy Lee comes in.

[Ashley Banfield]

Is that all there is?

[Harvey Levin]

And they're thinking, huh, I thought this was gonna be bigger. And that's why I'm saying, in a way, you know, it's funny because if a prospective juror said, yeah, I believe they're minors in this case, it seems, you know, the automatic reaction by the defense would be, boot him. But I think they should keep him, because I think it actually helps them. And the reverse with the prosecutors. So I don't know. But I can tell you, no celebrity sex tapes, no minors.

[Ashley Banfield]

Well, definitely no minors. Otherwise, we'd see a charge involving minors. So I 100% agree with you there. They're not going to show minors on a video and then not have a charge for it, even if it's an unidentified minor. But I still. I still am curious because there. There's a lot of action. Whether it's illegal or legal is different, is a different story. Because here's why all the sexy questions in voir dire, I have never. Tell me if you've heard of this before, Harvey, because I have never seen this happen where a judge says to jurors who are being prospective jurors who are being voir dared. Look, if you're too embarrassed to answer our questions in front of the open court, just come on up to the bench and you whisper them to me. As long as both lawyers are there and one woman, I am such a prude that I might faint with sexy, you know, kinky testimony. I've never heard of anything like that.

[Harvey Levin]

Well, that's because it's really necessary to raise that in this case. Because, look, you're gonna hear things that are raunchy and even violent. And you're gonna hear things that are, you know, outside the lanes of most people. And they've gotta be able to process it, not be judgmental about it and evaluate it. And not everybody can do that. There may be people who are so shocked by it that it's sort of like automatically he's guilty.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah, they question his moral turpitude. Right, right.

[Harvey Levin]

Because they're said, listen, their defense is he's not a criminal, he's a swinger. So the predicate here is we're gonna tell you about his swinger lifestyle.

[Ashley Banfield]

But Harvey, why are you so convinced that he doesn't swing with celebrities?

[Harvey Levin]

Look what the. The freak offs are three people. They are Diddy, a girlfriend, and an alleged sex worker. Those are the freak offs. Those are the things that they're gonna get into.

[Ashley Banfield]

Allegedly, right?

[Harvey Levin]

Well, no, there were freak offs. Nobody's denying.

[Ashley Banfield]

So we're just saying whether they were illegal behavior in the free coffs.

[Harvey Levin]

We're saying, were the freak offs, did they involve fraud, coercion, enterprise, or physical violence or, you know, drugging somebody against their will? And, you know, and then there's another charge, and this is the one, I think that's the most problematic for Diddy, which is just the interstate transportation, you know, of a sex worker, because.

[Ashley Banfield]

Is that the man act?

[Harvey Levin]

Yeah. And he's gonna have. I think he could have real problem with that because it doesn't involve really force or coercion or anything. There's an argument there. But I think, you know, we did a mock jury for one of our. Yeah, and, and, and they found him guilty on that charge. They were hung on the other two. So you look, and I'm not saying that's the way this case is gonna go because they didn't hear the actual testimony.

[Ashley Banfield]

You also had a very.

[Harvey Levin]

But I found it interesting.

[Ashley Banfield]

I saw your panel. It was extreme, which may not be the case in lower Manhattan.

[Harvey Levin]

Well, we'll see. I mean, right now it could be diverse, right? I mean, it could be because there are. There's enough diversity now in the panel. In the 45 people.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah, kind of a lot of people. What I'm hearing from our producers, a lot of people from like Westchester, a lot of suburbanites, you know, a lot of whites from. From up in the green.

[Harvey Levin]

I mean, that's the jury pool, but I'm talking blacks, whites, Asians, Latinos, men, women, old, young.

[Ashley Banfield]

Speaking of that, everybody should know that when you get your peremptory challenges as a lawyer, you don't have to say why you're kicking someone off a jury, but you're still in your head, not allowed to use Race or religion or those kinds of protected classes as a reason. And I don't know, I mean, unless you write in some kind of, you know, Gaelic code, I don't know how they could ever imagine for a moment what's in a lawyer's head as a reason for kicking someone off a jury. But what do you think? As these attorneys on both sides start to exercise their peremptories, what do you think is first and foremost in their mind?

[Harvey Levin]

I think it's different depending on prosecutors and defense. You know, this is the tricky thing for the defense. What I think they're looking for are people that they really believe can change their mind based on evidence. And the one thing I didn't hear that I thought I would hear, and this really has to do with the fact that the judge is the one who did the voir dire and not the lawyers, is you can't just say to somebody, even though you may have an opinion, could you change your mind? Because everybody's gonna say yes, right? Everybody's gonna say yes. The way to ask that question is to say, is there anything you can think of in your life that was really important, something that you really believed, and somebody convinced you to change your mind? Give me an example. If they can give you an example of something like that, where they really did it, that's the kind of person the defense wants. Because, you know, the reality, which is that most people think Diddy's guilty. Guilty as hell. And some people go beyond that and say he's a monster. So they've got to. They gotta disabuse jurors of their preconceived notions of this case.

[Ashley Banfield]

Can I just comment on the triple word score? Disabuse. Good for you. That is impressive, my friend. Very impressive.

[Harvey Levin]

Thank you.

[Ashley Banfield]

Well, one day we'll play Scrabble. And by the way, I think the CW's got a big Scrabble game coming out. Craig Ferguson. Oh, you're kidding. Yeah, he's gonna host Scrabble.

[Harvey Levin]

Who's hosting who?

[Ashley Banfield]

Craig Ferguson.

[Harvey Levin]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Ashley Banfield]

I'm here for you. There you go. There's a game.

[Harvey Levin]

I love that game.

[Ashley Banfield]

Let me ask you something about Diddy's appearance in court. It drives me absolutely batshit crazy. That federal court is still so antiquated that we have to have sketch art from the 1800s.

[Harvey Levin]

I know.

[Ashley Banfield]

Don't even get me started. It's so silly. But the sketch artists have been good enough to show us that Diddy Sporton like a fade. That is all Gray and a gray goatee. And then here's the crazy detail. Today's day three, and he is wearing the same outfit for the third day in a row. And it's very Luigi Mangioni. Right, but why would you think for a minute that he'd wear the same clothes? I get the outfit, I get the look, but the same clothes three days in a row?

[Harvey Levin]

I think they don't want to make a big deal look. Listen, I think that fashion is a big deal in court. It is a big deal in court.

[Ashley Banfield]

Just ask Anna, you know, Delvey.

[Harvey Levin]

How about Eric and Lyle Menendez in the first trial putting sweaters on them, which I found. Right. And just pastels every day. Because you just can't superimpose what you're looking at with what they did. And so I kind of think this was an interesting move, but I thought they were gonna put him in a suit, but putting him in the same sweater. I think what it does is it just. People get used to it, and they're not judging him. I mean, if they started doing pastel sweaters every day or different color sweaters every day, all of a sudden they start thinking, are they trying to manipulate me in a way? Less is more. And so you don't make it like this guy's living the life right now or what's this guy trying to pull over on me? I think that kind of makes sense. I think it makes sense.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah. I just think it's weird. Can I tell you, a billionaire wearing the same outfit three days in a row, that brother has never shown up at a public event wearing the same thing twice.

[Harvey Levin]

He's never. Absolutely true. You know what? Here's the thing that I am like, I'm just fascinated by. When I covered O.J. simpson, there was no such thing as social media.

[Ashley Banfield]

Right.

[Harvey Levin]

And as crazy as that case was, as riveting as it was for the American public, I think there is nothing like something. Well, I mean, the difference is it was televised so everybody could see it in living color, and here you can't. So OJ Is just bigger because of that. But in terms of this jury not hearing anything in the media or on social for eight or nine or 10 weeks, to me is ridiculous that even the first day the jury was admonished, don't read anything about the case. And a lawyer comes in the next day and says, yeah, well, I was on the train, and I was looking at my phone, and I saw something about. I know. And so how are they going to. And they're not. Sequestering them. So how are they going to sanitize this jury? I just don't see it's possible.

[Ashley Banfield]

Well, how about, how about their social media to date? Because isn't that something that attorneys, both prosecutors and defense attorneys, will, they will scour the hell out of these prospective jurors and see what their social media has told about them?

[Harvey Levin]

No, no, but that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying. Well, no, no, once the testimony starts, the jury has to process it and they've got to figure out in their own heads how do I feel about that witness and that witness and that witness. And when if they start looking at social media and they start hearing everybody felt this way, it's gonna push them that way. It's just gonna, that's human nature. It's like, what am I missing if everybody else is saying X even though they weren't in court and you were. It's like everybody feels this way. And that's gonna be the trick is how do you keep a jury objective in the sense that they're processing the information on their own when they're hearing how everybody else feels? Think about Amber Heard and Johnny Depp, that if that were a case like this, I mean, everybody saw TikTok, everybody saw what was going on. And you know, sometimes you could love or hate Amber Heard or Johnny Depp based on what you saw on TikTok. Yeah, well, why is that not gonna happen to you?

[Ashley Banfield]

And how can you ask these people to ignore their feeds? Because honestly, if you just open your Instagram, you know what the first thing that comes up is?

[Harvey Levin]

I know, I know. Once it's there, okay, once it's there, do you close it? It's sort of like driving past an ambulance.

[Ashley Banfield]

Do you report it?

[Harvey Levin]

Do you really close it?

[Ashley Banfield]

Do you really close it?

[Harvey Levin]

Do you really close it?

[Ashley Banfield]

And by the way, I just watched a bail hearing. Yes, this is what I do. At 3 o' clock in the morning. I watch bail hearings of a guy who was accused of kidnapping or ATT to kidnap a two year old off the lap of a mom in a Walmart with like people all around. And I mean, it was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. This guy was not a kidnapper. But the judge from the bench said I'm gonna have to tell counsel that I on my way here, opened up my social media and I saw this case. So I just wanna let you know I closed it down and I didn't read it, but I'm trying my best to not read up on. Not watch the local news. This is the judge telling the courtroom.

[Harvey Levin]

You know, in the Charles Manson case, there was a moment.

[Ashley Banfield]

Wait, wait, you are not old enough to have covered that case.

[Harvey Levin]

I didn't cover that. Oh, thank you. But I was certainly conscious of it.

[Ashley Banfield]

Me too. I was as well.

[Harvey Levin]

And in the Charles Manson case, in the middle of the trial, there was almost a mistrial. And it was because, you know, they used to have. I don't even know what they call him anymore. You know, when you buy a newspaper and those. What do they call the. You know, when you put a quarter in and you pull it out and you get the newspaper.

[Ashley Banfield]

Oh, newspaper stand.

[Harvey Levin]

A newspaper. I guess it's a stand.

[Ashley Banfield]

You walk by them on the sidewalk, right?

[Harvey Levin]

And there was a. There was a newspaper stand outside of the criminal courthouse in downtown Los Angeles where the trial was. And they had one newspaper that would face the window and it said, manson guilty. Nixon declares. And they almost declared a mistrial because the jury walked past it and saw it and it was a huge deal. In that case. They almost. They almost declared a mistake.

[Ashley Banfield]

Because if you think about it, did those jurors in the Manson case or any of the subsequent family members cases, did they have to stop their subscription from landing on their front doorstep? Because they would have seen it.

[Harvey Levin]

Well, they were. No, no, they were sequestered.

[Ashley Banfield]

Oh, so they didn't get that. And they used to cut. I remember with newspapers, they used to cut the articles.

[Harvey Levin]

Cut the thing, the articles, and then.

[Ashley Banfield]

Give the rest of the newspapers.

[Harvey Levin]

That's right. But they saw this headline and that alone almost declared a mistrial. So think about this. Think. I mean, Ashley, you are gonna hear during this trial, it's gonna stop at some point and there's gonna be a motion by one side or the other, to boot a juror, because they saw something or they talked about something or they told another juror something, or a bailiff overheard them saying something and that's why they got six alternates.

[Ashley Banfield]

But Harvey, haven't you seen a trend and since the influx and the rise of social media, haven't you seen a trend whereby this happens all the time? And then there's a quick question, answer with the judge and the juror in which the judge says, tell me what you saw. And the juror tells the judge what they saw. And the judge then says, can you be fair and impartial and can you put that out of your mind? And the juror says, yes. And that feels like it's curative. Like, they're not even really considering it to be so critical that they saw something. It's how they felt about what they saw. And if they can be honest and continue.

[Harvey Levin]

I've seen that. But I've also seen it the other way. Because what also happens is the judge doesn't want to find out whether they can still be fair. But the judge wants to find out is, why the hell did you do what I told you not to do?

[Ashley Banfield]

Well, yeah, sometimes it's innocent. Like, somebody was talking to me at the table next to me.

[Harvey Levin]

But I'm not talking about that. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about a juror who says, did you see News Nation last night? When somebody on Ashley's show said. And the bailiff overhears it, and then the judge is not just gonna say, can you be impartial? The judge is, no offense, Ashley, why did you watch Ashley's piece last night? Why did you do that? And I told you not to. And if the judge feels the guy or the woman is shady, they're gonna boot him. And I've seen it happen. And I'm telling you, the jury of 12 you're gonna see is not gonna be the exact same jury at the end of this trial.

[Ashley Banfield]

I agree. What did. Gosh, I can't even remember. Might have been Karen Reed. But we got off to day one, and a juror was. You know what? It was Lori Valo. That was it. It was Lori Valo down in New Mexico. Day one, juror was booted. I think on day two or day three, another one was booted. I mean, it was happening like, rapid fire. I started to get worried that they got to start picking another alternate panel of 12.

[Harvey Levin]

Look, and you know, in that case won't hold a candle to the coverage Diddy gets.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah, no, you're right.

[Harvey Levin]

And you know, and the other thing about the coverage Diddy gets is that at least when it's televised, everybody's, you know, showing the video of the witness on the stand or whatever. Here, there's none of that. So everybody is gonna be interpreting, making things up.

[Ashley Banfield]

That's right.

[Harvey Levin]

You know, that's what happens in social media. It actually happens in the media.

[Ashley Banfield]

This is why I'm so against keeping cameras out of the courtroom, because you just fuel specialization.

[Harvey Levin]

I agree with you. But again, the case isn't being tried for us. The case is being tried to a jury. I'm a little surprised. Although I don't know how they could have found it. I'm a little surprised the judge didn't sequester them, because I think this is gonna be. Because it's New York and he is New York, and it's gonna be covered everywhere. So look.

[Ashley Banfield]

But, my God, a couple of, you know, couple of months is just brilliant.

[Harvey Levin]

Think about a restaurant. Think about a restaurant. You go to a restaurant on a Saturday night in the middle of this trial, you think, nobody else is talking.

[Ashley Banfield]

About Diddy at that restaurant.

[Harvey Levin]

I know. And so.

[Ashley Banfield]

But sequestering someone for, like, you know.

[Harvey Levin]

8 to 10, they did for O.J. for nine months.

[Ashley Banfield]

That was the dumbest thing ever. They came. They came with a verdict with their bags packed.

[Harvey Levin]

Right. Well, also, the trial should not have lasted nine months.

[Ashley Banfield]

Amen.

[Harvey Levin]

Yeah, but still, if this is. I don't know how they would have found people, you know, because it's summer, you know, people are going on vacation, their kids are getting out of school, they have work issues, health issues. So finding a jury that you can sequester is just so hard. But I do not see how this doesn't come off the rails to some extent.

[Ashley Banfield]

Do you think Diddy's gonna take the stand?

[Harvey Levin]

No.

[Ashley Banfield]

Really?

[Harvey Levin]

Absolutely not.

[Ashley Banfield]

Really? He's such a showman.

[Harvey Levin]

No way.

[Ashley Banfield]

That's his talent.

[Harvey Levin]

No way. The prosecutor in this case, Comey, she is Ghislaine Maxwell. The rebuttal she did in closing was devastating. She savaged her. And there is no way Diddy is going to put himself up to that. No way.

[Ashley Banfield]

Okay, here's another.

[Harvey Levin]

And especially, I mean, to get him on the stand and make him squirm over the Cassie video, you know, to, you know, get into all of these allegations, to everything. No way. No way in the world.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah. Him having to talk about being freaky is different than his lawyers talking about him being freaky. Yeah, totally. So our little rumor, big fancy lawyer, big famous lawyer. Not one who does a podcast with you was offered to.

[Harvey Levin]

Believe me, he's made the news lately.

[Ashley Banfield]

Since you brought it up. Garagos got slammed for saying that the prosecutors are fighting a cause, not a case. And then I think just today or yesterday, this is a six pack of white women over there on.

[Harvey Levin]

No, he said that in the podcast.

[Ashley Banfield]

Oh, he said it in the podcast. Right.

[Harvey Levin]

And then they said that on the two Angry.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah, we said it on your Two Angry Men podcast.

[Harvey Levin]

He said on the two Angry Men podcast. And the prosecutors fired off a letter to the judge saying, this is outrageous. And the judge called him in and said, you see, now this is really interesting because the Judge said, because we got the transcript of this thing. And the judge said that you cross the line. How dare you say that? It's outrageous.

[Ashley Banfield]

As an officer of the court.

[Harvey Levin]

As an officer of the court. And the next time you do it, essentially the judge said, I'm probably going to hold you in contempt. So he made that really clear. On the other hand, the Judge said, and Mr. Garrigos, I'm going to be listening to that podcast every week. First of all, thank you judge, we appreciate that. I really appreciate.

[Ashley Banfield]

What a plug.

[Harvey Levin]

I. No kidding. But secondly, what's really interesting, Ashley, fascinating is the judge is essentially saying that Garrigus, who is clearly. And look, he does not, he is not open with me about this at all. Even though I've known him forever, he's not open with me. I don't know what his exact relationship is in this case, but he's clearly advising the defense team. He's represented Diddy for years.

[Ashley Banfield]

And Tenney, his daughter is on the.

[Harvey Levin]

Team and she's on the team. But he was in the peanut gallery and they were exchanging notes, the defense and Garagutz, he was in the lunchroom with them. So again, I haven't talked to him about this cuz we haven't done the podcast this week. But you know what's interesting is if the judge is saying I'm gonna be listening to the podcast, what he's saying is you're not subject to the gag order.

[Ashley Banfield]

And also the judge, like the guy I just covered in the bail hearing, maybe shouldn't be consuming outside media.

[Harvey Levin]

Wow. Well, I think, well, I mean, I think what's. Well, I mean now the judge is doing it professionally to see if Garrigus crosses the line. But, but what's. I find this really interesting because there is a very famous case called shepherd vs Maxwell and this was Sam Shepard, who was the doctor famously convicted of murdering his wife and I think, and his child too. I think it may have just the wife. It may have just been the wife. And he appealed based on the prosecution and the media being in cahoots and poisoning the community. And the jury. And the Supreme Court bought it. And the Supreme Court said that at a point it denies a defendant the constitutional right to a fair trial. What's interesting when you read that opinion is it seems to be a one way street that it could gag prosecutors, but it doesn't talk about gagging the defense because the defense is entitled to a fair trial. But what they say in the public doesn't mean the trial becomes unfair. You know, they may try to gain an advantage, but prosecutors don't have that right under the fifth Amendment. Only the defendant does. So. So, you know, Garagos point was that no defense lawyer could ever be gagged. And in this case, all the others have bent the knee and said, we're not gonna talk. Garrigus, whether he's part of it or not, is saying that's just unconstitutional. Seems like the judge kind of bought it.

[Ashley Banfield]

I know you have to go, but I need a really quick answer from you on this. And that is that a big fancy lawyer told me he was offered 10 million to defend Diddy and just for all sorts of other reasons he couldn't. What do you think it's going to cost Diddy, this def.

[Harvey Levin]

The amount that you just mentioned?

[Ashley Banfield]

Well, yeah, because that was just for one lawyer, right?

[Harvey Levin]

Yeah, that one lawyer asked for way more than 10 million.

[Ashley Banfield]

Oh really?

[Harvey Levin]

Way more, huh? Way more.

[Ashley Banfield]

So what do you think? What do you think the Diddy team defense is going to cost his dream team?

[Harvey Levin]

We were talking about that today. I mean these are high priced lawyers and we were just. I mean there are eight of them and we were saying that during the trial. It seems to me it's 100,000 a day, man. I mean that adds up.

[Ashley Banfield]

I think it's more than 100,000 a day.

[Harvey Levin]

Honestly, it probably is, but at least.

[Ashley Banfield]

100,000 a day and the terabytes of data that they've got to go through in these last eight months. But I can't even believe it's only been eight months. I know you gotta go. I adore you. I could talk to you for a thousand hours and still not finish.

[Harvey Levin]

I love talking to you.

[Ashley Banfield]

We have to do this again, by the way.

[Harvey Levin]

We're gonna do this again on our Tubi special, which we're gonna be doing every week. And it'll be free on Tubi. The first one is gonna drop Thursday night, tomorrow night. And it's gonna be really.

[Ashley Banfield]

I'm excited. I'm excited to do it. I can't wait.

[Harvey Levin]

We're gonna get some inside scoop on stuff.

[Ashley Banfield]

I can't wait. Thank you for this, Harvey.

[Harvey Levin]

I love you, Ashley.

[Ashley Banfield]

Love you more. It's always a pleasure.

[Harvey Levin]

Always.

[Ashley Banfield]

My great thanks to Harvey Levin for that conversation. He is such a busy guy. It's super hard to pin him down for five min. This long, you know, plus half hour conversation that I had with Harvey. Super excited about doing a Tubi show actually with Harvey Levin on Thursday. So keep your eyes peeled for that. It will be on the Diddy trial. I'm going to join a panel of experts with Harvey to talk about the developments every week. In the meantime, I'm just so thrilled that you've been here, and I'm so appreciative that you either listen or watch the Drop Dead Serious podcast. I always ask that if you like it, say something. Say something in the comments. Leave a review that's really, really helpful. Share the episode with a friend. That makes a huge difference, But I just love hearing from you as well. Don't forget to subscribe though, as well, so you don't miss any new episodes, especially those bonus episodes that I tend to drop, you know, when I'm feeling freaky. Thank you so much for listening and watching. I'm Ashley Banfield and remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's Drop Dead serious.