Karen Read Trial Day 7 | Jen McCabe GRILLED ABOUT "LYING" TO THE FEDS

Summary

Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Episode: Karen Read Trial Day 7 | Jen McCabe GRILLED ABOUT "LYING" TO THE Feds
Release Date: May 1, 2025

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Overview

In Day 7 of the Karen Reed retrial, Ashleigh Banfield delves deep into the intense courtroom drama surrounding key witness Jen McCabe. This episode captures the pivotal moments of Jen's testimony and the relentless cross-examination by defense attorney Alan Jackson, highlighting critical inconsistencies and raising questions about Jen's credibility. Join Ashleigh as she unpacks the strategies, emotions, and legal maneuvers that could sway the jury's perception in this high-stakes case.

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Recap of the Day

Ashleigh opens the episode by setting the stage for Day 7 of the Karen Reed trial, emphasizing the significance of Jen McCabe's testimony. Jen, the sister of the homeowner at 34 Fairview Road and wife of Boston cop Brian Albert, plays a central role in the case. She is notably the one who made the critical 911 call and conducted the infamous Google search misspelled as "hoss" when investigating how long it takes to die in the cold.

“Jen McCabe is the sister of the woman who threw the party at 34 Fairview Road... It was Jen McCabe who googled how long to die in the cold with the infamous misspelling of the word how written as hoss.”
— Ashleigh Banfield [01:20]

The day began smoothly with the prosecution’s direct examination but took a sharp turn during the defense’s cross-examination, led by Alan Jackson.

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Alan Jackson’s Cross-Examination

Alan Jackson, portrayed by Ashleigh as a seasoned and formidable defense attorney, zeroes in on Jen McCabe’s interactions with federal agents. His goal: to expose potential dishonesty and undermine Jen’s reliability as a witness.

Questioning Jen McCabe’s Testimony

Jackson meticulously dissects Jen’s previous statements, particularly focusing on her claim of only contacting her husband, Matt McCabe, and friend Carrie Roberts prior to her interview with the federal agents.

“When you told the agency only spoke with Matt and Carrie, that was a lie by definition. Jen said, no, that she'd just forgotten.”
— Alan Jackson [34:37]

Through a series of pointed questions, Jackson reveals that phone records contradict Jen’s initial testimony, showing she contacted additional individuals, including Peggy O'Keefe (John O'Keefe’s mother) and Brian Albert himself. This discrepancy raises doubts about Jen's truthfulness.

Delving into Family Connections

Jackson also explores the intertwined relationships within Jen’s family, highlighting the close-knit ties between the McCabe and Albert families, both of whom have strong connections to law enforcement.

“Chris Albert is a Canton select board member, Is that right now?”
— Alan Jackson [15:27]

By mapping out these connections, Jackson suggests a potential bias or undue influence that could affect Jen’s testimony and the overall integrity of the investigation.

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Jen McCabe’s Defense and Responses

Despite the aggressive cross-examination, Jen maintains her composure, asserting that any omissions in her testimony were unintentional and a result of shock rather than deceit.

“We're not telling stories. We don't have to compare.”
— Jen McCabe [35:43]

Jen explains that her interactions were spontaneous and driven by the chaotic circumstances of the morning, emphasizing that there was no coordinated effort to fabricate her account.

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Courtroom Developments and Twists

As the day progresses, tensions escalate. Judge Beverly Canoni introduces an unexpected twist by calling a private sidebar, removing both legal teams and the families from the courtroom. The nature of this private meeting remains unclear, sparking speculation and adding an air of mystery to the proceedings.

“Why would the judge do this? What a very strange sidebar. No one knows the answer, but the speculation is flying.”
— Ashleigh Banfield [43:49]

This sudden development leaves listeners anticipating further revelations and underscores the unpredictable nature of high-profile trials.

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Concluding Thoughts

By the end of Day 7, Jen McCabe remains a contentious figure in the trial. While she steadfastly defends her honesty, Alan Jackson's relentless questioning casts a shadow over her credibility. Ashleigh Banfield effectively captures the courtroom dynamics, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the strategies and stakes involved.

“By the end of day seven, Jen McCabe was still standing, but barely... The defense clearly got under Jen McCabe's skin.”
— Ashleigh Banfield [43:18]

As the episode wraps up, Ashleigh assures her audience that the courtroom battles are far from over, promising continued coverage and analysis in future episodes.

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Key Quotes

• Ashleigh Banfield:
  “You just seem like a different person who can change on a dime depending on who's asking.”
  — [03:00]

• Alan Jackson:
  “Is there some shade of lie that I'm not aware of?”
  — [37:17]

• Jen McCabe:
  “I didn't lie to them. I had forgotten who I had called.”
  — [42:44]

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield masterfully dissects the complexities of courtroom testimony and the delicate balance of witness credibility. Ashleigh's insightful narration and sharp analysis offer listeners a front-row seat to the unfolding drama, making it an essential listen for true crime aficionados and those keen on the intricacies of the legal system.

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Subscribe now to stay updated with Ashleigh Banfield’s in-depth coverage and receive exclusive bonus episodes that dive even deeper into the mysteries and injustices that shape our world.

Transcript

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[Ashley Banfield]

Hey everybody, I'm Ashley Banfield. Welcome back to another episode of Drop Dead Serious. Today was day seven in the Karen Reed trial. I should say retrial. And we are back with Jennifer McCabe on the stand. Remember, Jen McCabe is the sister of the woman who threw the party at 34 Fairview Road. That homeowner's husband, Brian Albert, was a Boston cop, just like John O'Keefe, the victim who died. And it was Jen McCabe who made the 911 call. And it was Jen McCabe who googled how long to die in the cold with the infamous misspelling of the word how written as hoss. This morning started off friendly with more questions from the prosecution. But by the afternoon, yeah, things took a drastic turn. As they do when cross examinations get underway. It's all fine and dandy when you're dealing with a friendly right. You're a prosecution witness and it's the prosecutor who's asking you the questions. Yeah, that part's the easy part. It's when the defense gets its Chance to come at you. That's when things get tense and the defense came out swinging, especially when things got personal and fast. I should mention to you that Jen McCabe did great. I mean her attitude on the stand is like night and day compared to the last trial. She is holding it together. And by the way, that is really, really important because you have got to make sure that the jury doesn't see that you're one way when you get the friendly questions and another way when you get the not so friendly questions from the cross exam. If the jury decides all of a sudden you're a changed person, they are just not going to believe as much as what you said the first time round. You just seem like a different person who can change on a dime depending on who's asking. So she's doing great. She's really keeping it together and keeping her attitude in check. But that also brings me to the defense lawyer, Alan Jackson. This guy's a master of his trade. I am not going to lie. I've been following Alan Jackson for almost 20 years and he is one of the best in the business. But he, and he probably knows this. But if he doesn't. Hey, Alan, he needs to be careful. He's got to make sure he doesn't look like he is beating up a witness because the jury doesn't dislike her. Right. It could be different if the jury disliked Jen McCabe, then it's okay to beat up a witness. But until that time and unless it happens, he's got to be careful and he's got to maintain a decorum that makes him look like he's trustworthy too. Right. And I don't know that we are anywhere near the point yet where Jen McCabe is disliked by this jury. But we got a long way to go, so let's get into it.

[Court Announcer]

Karen, what would you like to say to Jen McCabe?

[Alan Jackson]

Make a hole, guys.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Oh, I have nothing to say to Jen McCabe. I would say the dash cam and the 911 calls speak for themselves. If you want to know what the scene was like, just. Just watch the video. Don't take anyone's word for it. Watch the video.

[Alan Jackson]

What can we expect from Cross?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

A lot.

[Ashley Banfield]

The special prosecutor in the case, Hank Brennan, was first up to bat today and he was still on his direct examination of Jen McCabe continuing from yesterday. And he went straight for the most infamous piece of evidence in this entire case, Jen McCabe's now notorious Google search. You know the 1ha slong to die in the cold. Meaning how long to die in the cold if you didn't miswrite the H O W to H O S? Prosecutor Brennan asked, quote, was this the first time that morning that you searched for. For that phrase, end quote? And Jen answered flat out, quote, yes, it was after the defendant asked me to end quote. The prosecutor Brennan then pulled up the 911 call that Jen McCabe made. And keep in mind here that the 911 call is not the best quality, but take a listen.

[911 Operator]

What's going on? This is why I was shot up in the snow. In the snow. Yes, 34, the resident. Yes, I just pulled up the time. You can now. Yes, hello? Yes, I'm sorry. Can you come to 74 CFU Road in Houston? 34 Fairview. Yes, this a man unresponsive in the snow. Okay, and the. What else? These guys are here. Okay. Okay. What's going on? Is he faced down? We just sent him over. Okay, who's that in the background? Is that some. Chris Is girlfriend? His name is John. Okay, how old is he? John is 46 years old. 46. How long has he been outside? I don't know. I don't know. He got out of the car and it could have been a couple of hours. Is he. Terry, is he still. I don't. I. I don't. I don't know. If you remember, there are two women trying to heat and they're called. Okay, can you just try to ask him? I know it's tough, but we have to get the five and go. And they just got to know. Is he breathing, you guys? It doesn't seem to be breathing. Okay, do they don't have a good cpr. Do they want attempt cp? Yes, he's got a good cpr. No, because he's going. Okay. They don't feel comfortable billing sublets. No, I think he's passed away. Okay. All right, we have the private comment and the police coming out of the way. If anyone's a climbing cpr, then I can. I'll hang up with you. And if anything changes, you can give us a call back. Where are you guys outside? I know, I know. I'm on the phone with the induced. I know, I know, I know, I know, honey. I know, I know. Kelly, you gotta get off somebody. Kelly, you gotta get off the head. You know if there's any alcohol, drugs involved? I'm talking Congress about maybe. Okay, Is there any bleeding or anything maybe in his head? Is his head out? Yes, possibly. I think he's bleeding in the face. Okay. Bleeding from the Face all right. Yeah. How big the pool of blood did if there is any something kind of note that one of the women you're doing uti. Okay. One of them is doing cpr? Yes, we're working on him. All right. If she was in cpr, just let me just give us a call back and becomes responsible. Right. But we're on our way. Okay, thank you.

[Ashley Banfield]

Before Jen gives The operator John O'Keefe's name or age, you can hear her tell the dispatcher, quote, there's a man in the snow, end quote. So the prosecutor asked, why'd you say a man in the snow and not just John and Jen answered, quote, I wanted to get out the most specific details fast. A man in the snow was faster than saying John. And then it was time for Karen Reed's defense attorney to take a crack at Jen McCabe. And the stakes couldn't be higher than cross examining a star witness for the prosecution. Karen Reed's hotshot defense lawyer, Alan Jackson, kicked things off with a jab at Jen that got everybody's attention. Jen had to admit under oath that before she took the stand this time around, she's had four to five prep meetings with the prosecutors about her testimony. She also had to admit that she is good friends, maybe even best friends with Carrie Roberts. Carrie was the second woman at the scene that morning. Right. There was Carrie and Karen and Jen. And Carrie Roberts was also the first woman on the stand in this trial. You remember her testimony? Carrie Roberts told the court that she really didn't have much of a connection to Jen McCabe or anybody else in that house party that night. And it seems from Jen's cross examination that that is not exactly the case. Karen's lawyer asked Jen point blank, when did she last speak with Carrie Roberts and if she knew what Carrie Roberts testified to. And then Alan Jackson asked if any of Jen's testimony today was coached.

[Alan Jackson]

Good morning, Ms. McCabe.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Good morning.

[Alan Jackson]

When was the last time you spoke with Carrie Roberts before your testimony today?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

She called me last night.

[Alan Jackson]

What did y'all discuss?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

She asked if my daughters were going to be staying home from school today because her daughter would possibly join them.

[Alan Jackson]

Did you discuss anything having to do with your testimony?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Not my testimony, no.

[Alan Jackson]

Are you aware that she testified last week?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

We know that through her testimony that you had a conversation with her the morning that she testified?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Have you and Ms. Roberts ever discussed anything about either one of your testimonies, either in the last proceeding or in anticipation of this proceeding now? So for the entirety of the last year. Even though you both went through a proceeding last year where you both testified under oath and it was highly, highly publicized, neither one of you, your good friend Carrie Roberts and you have ever discussed either of your testimonies between that time and this time?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No. We've discussed the case and we've discussed what happened that moment, the moments of the morning, but we have not discussed testimony.

[Alan Jackson]

What about any discussion about your demeanor and how you performed in the last proceeding? Objection.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Sustain.

[Alan Jackson]

I'll ask it a different way. What about your demeanor? I'm using a. Probably a poor word. Perform how you came across your demeanor in the last proceeding? Objection. Did you discuss changing your demeanor at. In any way, shape, form or fashion from the last trial to. I'm sorry, the last proceedings of this trial? My mistake. From the last proceeding to this trial, was your demeanor ever discussed?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No, I was just told to slow down, answer the question and, you know, answer it to the best of my memory.

[Alan Jackson]

Was there any discussion about talking about your background, for instance, your family and your children and being a sports mom as you talked about in your direct examination?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No, I believe I did that in the previous one as well.

[Alan Jackson]

Was there any discussion about crafting your testimony in any way to suggest a softer approach?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No.

[Alan Jackson]

Was there any discussion about how to develop your testimony from beginning to end?

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[Ashley Banfield]

Karen's lawyer also clarified the two family trees in question in this case, Jen McCabe's family tree and the Alberts family tree. And Alan Jackson made sure to emphasize which members of that family worked for law enforcement agencies. Because if you're Karen Reid right now, it is incredibly important that the jury understands just how tight knit these Canton families are and what their relationship dynamics look like.

[Alan Jackson]

Would you consider yourself to be close with your sister Nicole and Brian?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes, very close.

[Alan Jackson]

Your families. It's not just you and Nicole. Your whole families are close, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes, we have a very close family.

[Alan Jackson]

How long have you known Brian Albert?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Since I was in kindergarten.

[Alan Jackson]

You consider him, even though he is not blood related to you, you consider him family?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

In addition to Brian and Nicole Albert, you're also very close with Chris and Julie Albert, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Just to be clear, I'm going to do this slowly.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Okay.

[Alan Jackson]

Brian Albert's younger brother is Chris Albert, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Chris Albert is married to Julie Albert.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

You consider Chris and Julie family even though there may not be a blood relation as well, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Chris Albert is a Canton select board member, Is that right now?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

He is, yes.

[Alan Jackson]

And the Canton that's in Canton. I did. I said select board mitten. Did I mention Canton select board member?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

It is in Canton, yes.

[Alan Jackson]

All right. Obviously it's in Canton. The Canton police department reports to the select board, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I'm not aware.

[Alan Jackson]

You're not aware of that, that echelon?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No.

[Alan Jackson]

Okay. You're aware that Brian Albert, your friend of I'm not going to say how many years, but since kindergarten, is a. Or was a Boston police officer?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

He had been a lifetime law enforcement officer for some 30 years before he retired recently, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

He's a trained first responder, obviously.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Brian Albert and Chris Albert have another brother named Kevin Albert, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Kevin Albert is a detective with a police department, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes, I believe that's his title I'm on.

[Alan Jackson]

Which police department is Kevin Albert associated with?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Canton.

[Alan Jackson]

And you've grown up in Canton your whole life, you indicated?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Your entire family has grown up in Canton, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Ashley Banfield]

Jen was also cross examined about what happened on the morning John O'Keefe was found.

[Alan Jackson]

Well, what about on the morning of January 29th, when everybody was still in that sort of friends and family gathering inside 34 Fairview when I was there.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

With my husband and sister and brother in law and, you know, then Brian's friend and Julie Albert, I was trying to piece together what had happened. They were all being supportive. They had no idea what happened. It was. We were just kind of sitting there in utter shock, waiting to hear from Kerry about John. It was nothing more than just us being together and trying to figure out what had happened. I had gotten a phone call from Karen to help her.

[Alan Jackson]

And during that conversation, during that conversation or that series of conversations, you were sharing what your observations of that evening were, what your story was, how the evening strikes started, how it ended for you, correct? Or the morning ended for you, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

We didn't. No, I'm not correct.

[Alan Jackson]

During the time that you folks were inside the house discussing this, there was no law enforcement agent or officer inside that House, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Correct.

[Alan Jackson]

So the entire family and this, the friend network that we're talking about with whom you discussed all these events, everybody was entitled to and did coordinate their statements without any separation and without any law enforcement oversight, Correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I was with my family, my sister, my brother in law. It wasn't really a big group of us, as I've mentioned, I had five or six people. I was in shock. I didn't know what had happened. They were just asking me what happened, questions like that. And I absolutely told them. But it was no story. There was no us being allowed to do it. That was my family. They were just there with me.

[Alan Jackson]

But nobody was separated by law enforcement, Correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I don't believe there was a reason to separate us.

[Alan Jackson]

Nobody. Well, not notwithstanding what you think was the reason, you're not a professional investigator, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I'm not, no.

[Alan Jackson]

You're not a trained investigator?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No.

[Alan Jackson]

You're certainly not a homicide detective, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No.

[Alan Jackson]

None of you witnesses were ever separated, were you, that morning?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

There was no reason to separate us.

[Alan Jackson]

I'm asking you if there was a reason.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Okay.

[Alan Jackson]

I'm asking you whether or not actually anybody was separated in the house or is everybody allowed to talk amongst themselves?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I was with my family. We didn't need to be allowed.

[Alan Jackson]

Okay.

[Ashley Banfield]

Alan Jackson asked Jen McCabe what happened next when Jen McCabe went inside her sister's house to wake her sister up. Remember, that sister is Nicole Albert and Nicole's husband is Brian Albert, Jen's brother in law. Karen's Lawyer asked Jen McCabe very specifically why she failed to mention the family dog that was in the house that morning. Chloe, the German shepherd. Alan Jackson grilled Jen McCabe about her testimony from earlier that day when the prosecutor had Jen walk through exactly what happened when Jen enters her sister's house.

[Alan Jackson]

Brian Albert and his family had a dog on January 29, 2022, did they not?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes, they did.

[Alan Jackson]

What was that dog's name?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Chloe.

[Alan Jackson]

What kind of dog was Chloe?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

A German Shepherd.

[Alan Jackson]

Was it a. Do you know if it was a purebred German shepherd or a mix of Malinois and German shepherd or do you know?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I have no idea.

[Alan Jackson]

Big dog?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yeah. Good sized dog?

[Alan Jackson]

Yeah, 70 pounder.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I don't know its weight.

[Alan Jackson]

Wasn't a little munchkin dog though. It was full size German.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

It's a full size, yeah.

[Alan Jackson]

On the morning that you described going into the house, January 29, 6:40am or so, you indicated that you burst into the bedroom to wake your sister and Brian Albert, is that right?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes, I went into the Bedroom.

[Alan Jackson]

It's still dark out, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

There had been relative chaos on the lawn for a number of minutes from about 6:10 until at least 6:40 when we went in. There were still emergency vehicles with lights on and engines running. Chaos, relative chaos. Bedlam, as somebody has said. On that front lawn. Correct.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Was more on their side lawn and down the street. Kind of like all the cruises that a lot of them were behind there? Yeah.

[Alan Jackson]

Right. In front.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

To the side. In the side yard of 34ft of you? Yes. Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Where first responders were responding, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

And you said, my client is screaming to the top of her lungs, is that right?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes, she was.

[Alan Jackson]

And Carrie Roberts screaming back there?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Shut the fuck up. Right?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Then at 6:40am under the COVID of darkness, you walked in the front door of the unlocked front door of Brian Albert's house. Correct.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I went into my sister's house. Correct.

[Alan Jackson]

It wasn't Brian Albert's house.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

And Brian Albert. Yes, I'm sorry.

[Alan Jackson]

You then climbed the stairs up toward the bedrooms, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

You walked into the bedroom door where Brian Albert and Nicole Albert, according to you, were sleeping, is that right?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

So you would agree that you unexpectedly, in terms of their view, unexpectedly walked into their house basically in the middle of the night, middle of the morning?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

You indicated that when you went through their bedroom door, you sort of burst through. Correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I opened the door. I don't know if I used the word burst.

[Alan Jackson]

You previously indicated that when you went through the door, it was chaotic because you were so amped up from the events. Is that right?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I don't know if I used those words.

[Alan Jackson]

Would you say that you were loud or quiet?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I was. I think, as I explained earlier, I was like, where everything was going on around me, and I was kind of like in a. Just a state of shock. And I remember thinking, I don't want to startle them, but I have to wake them up. Because obviously when I wake them up, they're gonna be panicked and think something terrible happened.

[Alan Jackson]

Well, why didn't you want to startle them? Something terrible had happened.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I didn't want to give them a heart attack when I woke them up.

[Alan Jackson]

But you didn't walk up and just nudge them and say, hey, I'm cold, honey, can you wake up? You didn't do that?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No, I was like, brian, Brian Nicole, wake up, wake up.

[Alan Jackson]

Okay. Exactly. But you weren't saying it in that voice either. You were saying, brian Brian Nicole, get up.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I'm not sure if it was that loud, but I definitely was Definitely. Like trying to wake them up. Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

What was the dog's reaction?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I don't recall seeing the dog.

[Alan Jackson]

So according to you a. To the dog at least we can get in the mind of a dog. Relative stranger walks in the front door, climbs a set of stairs, the house is completely dark. Walks into a bedroom door and starts barking. The person starts barking, get up, wake up, Brian, Nicole. And you don't remember seeing or hearing a dog at all?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Sustained.

[Alan Jackson]

As you indicated, it's not that the dog wasn't reactive, it's that you don't remember the dog even being there, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I have no memory of the dog, no.

[Alan Jackson]

But you do know that that dog sleeps in Brian and Nicole's room, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

It may. I don't know for sure.

[Alan Jackson]

The reason you don't remember the dog being there is because the dog wasn't there, was it?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I don't remember the dog.

[Alan Jackson]

Right. So when you walked out of the room. Sorry? When you walked in the house, didn't see the dog?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No.

[Alan Jackson]

When you walked up the stairs? No dog?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No.

[Alan Jackson]

Walked down the hallway, no dog?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No.

[Alan Jackson]

Walked into Brian and Nicole's bedroom door? No dog?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I don't remember seeing the dog.

[Alan Jackson]

I realized that Dog or no dog? No dog.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I don't remember seeing the dog. Doesn't mean it wasn't there. Or it was there. I just don't remember seeing it.

[Alan Jackson]

Well you didn't. No dog came up to you and barked at you, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No.

[Alan Jackson]

You didn't see or hear a dog whining or howling, did you?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No.

[Alan Jackson]

You didn't hear or see a dog scratching at the door?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No.

[Alan Jackson]

There's no sign of a dog at all in Brian and Nicole Albert's house at 6:41am when you walked into that house? Correct. Or 6:40?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I don't remember seeing the dog.

[Alan Jackson]

And this was a 70 pound German Shepherd, Correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I don't know the weight of the dog.

[Alan Jackson]

Have you ever heard the have you ever heard a description given about that dog by Brian Albert, anybody else, that that dog was not good with strangers? I object. Did you know, as you said, you're very, very dear friends and obviously dear friends with Brian Albert, relations with Nicole Albert, your sister. Are you aware that that dog was not good with strangers?

[911 Operator]

Object.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Do you know that? I don't. It wasn't good with other dogs is what I knew. So I could never bring my dog over there. That's all I know about the dog.

[911 Operator]

Right.

[Alan Jackson]

Had some aggression. Correct. At least with other dogs?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Possibly.

[Ashley Banfield]

And when it came to Jen McCabe's, interactions with investigators, things got even murkier. Alan Jackson dived right into Jen's past interviews, especially what Jen told the feds last April when the feds showed up at her house and wanted to have a chat. Except it's important to know here, they were not referred to as the feds in front of the jury. Instead, they were called, quote, officers of a government agency.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Correct.

[Alan Jackson]

Completely separate agency. Is that right?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

During the course of that interview, those officers informed you very specifically, Ms. McCabe, that it is a crime to lie to them even during an interview, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Those law enforcement officers informed you that they were investigating certain circumstances attendant to John O'Keefe's death, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

They were very vague on what they were. I don't know what they were investigating.

[Alan Jackson]

But you did understand that it was having something to do with your involvement at 34 Fairview on January 28, 29th, 2022, as a witness or otherwise? Objection.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Sustained. As to certain terminologies, sure.

[Alan Jackson]

Let me see if I can rephrase that. Ms. McCabe, you were aware of the subject matter of their interview, right? They weren't interviewing about a car you bought last year, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Correct.

[Alan Jackson]

They were interviewing you about. Basically about what you're testifying to here, Correct.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

When I first spoke with them, the conversation was pretty vague.

[Alan Jackson]

But the subject matter, vague or specific, was about this subject matter?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Okay, fair enough.

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[Court Announcer]

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[Alan Jackson]

They first contacted you telephonically called you on the phone, is that right?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Actually, they walked up to my car.

[Alan Jackson]

They walked up to your car?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Okay. That was the very first introduction, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

At that point, they had not identified themselves. Correct.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

They didn't know.

[911 Operator]

All right.

[Alan Jackson]

And at that point, you told them that you were not Jennifer McCabe. They asked you who you were, you said, I'm Nicole.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I thought they were, like, selling something. So I was like, oh, no, I'm not the homeowner.

[Alan Jackson]

Fair enough. Fair enough. However, after they said, sorry, after you said, I'm not Jennifer McCabe. You walked into the house, they then called you on the phone?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

They were still sitting outside your house.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I don't know where they were, but they did call me.

[Alan Jackson]

They were close by.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I'm not aware.

[Alan Jackson]

Well, the call came almost immediately after you walked back in the house, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I'm not sure how much time had passed.

[Alan Jackson]

Give me an idea. It was. It wasn't an hour. It was.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No, it was soon after. I'm just not sure. I can't tell you where they were located. I'm sorry.

[Alan Jackson]

They told you that they would. At that point they identified themselves as being law enforcement agents, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

When they called me? Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

And they told you at that time that they were not with Canton. You knew at least they were not with Canton Police Department. They were not troopers with Massachusetts State Police, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Okay. And they told you that they would like to have an interview with you, they'd like to have a sit down, talk with you, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

You told them that you would be willing to submit to an interview, but you needed about 10, 10 minutes to get ready, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

You ultimately did allow them into your home and you did sit down for a formal interview with them, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes. Brief, but yes.

[Alan Jackson]

And it was during that formal interview inside the home that it was explained to you that it would be a crime for you to lie to them on any material issue, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Did reviewing those paragraphs refresh your recollection as to whether or not as to what you told those agents initially? I'm sorry, what? You told those officers initially from that other law enforcement agency, that. About who you contacted in that 10 minute interval.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes, I told them.

[Alan Jackson]

And I told them that you. You had contacted your husband, Matt McCabe.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

And Carrie Roberts.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Correct.

[Alan Jackson]

I want to stick with that for just a quick second. One of the first calls you made after being contacted by this other law enforcement, these other law enforcement officers from a different agency, one of the first calls you made was to Carrie Roberts, is that right?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

She was the first one.

[Alan Jackson]

That's what I'm asking. One of the first two calls you made your husband.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Right.

[Alan Jackson]

Come home, there's law enforcement outside my door, I'm guessing is what you said correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I don't remember my exact words now, but I did ask him to come home.

[Alan Jackson]

And. And Carrie Roberts.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Okay. Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

You wanted to let Ms. Roberts know that you had been contacted by certain officers from a different agency, Correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I was curious if. I was curious, as if they had already been to her.

[Alan Jackson]

That was my next Question.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Alan Jackson]

You also wanted to find out had the. Had these law enforcement officers from this different agency contacted her, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes. Because typically if you enter out of town, she's.

[Alan Jackson]

Ms. McCabe, yes or no?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Oh, sorry. I was just trying to explain. I'm sorry.

[Alan Jackson]

Is that why you contacted her? To find out if in fact they had contacted her before you? Yes or no?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

And you also wanted to find out what she told them, if she had been contacted by them? Correct. That was your motive in calling her?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No.

[Alan Jackson]

So you just wanted to find out had she been contacted, but if she had said yes, you weren't going to say. And what the hell did they say? Well, they ask you?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Well, I most. I can't say what I would have answered, what I would have asked her, but I know I was calling to see if they had been there? Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

That was your. That was your intent?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I called to ask her if they had been there? Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

So that was your intent? Yes.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Okay. Your motive in calling Carrie Roberts at that moment before your interview was to ensure that your story would line up with her story, Ms. McCabe, isn't that right?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No, that is not.

[Alan Jackson]

You wanted to find out if she had talked to these particular law enforcement officers and what she had told them so that your story could somehow align with, or it could inform how you responded to questions that they asked you. Isn't that true?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

That's not true. We both know what happened. We don't have to have a story. There is no story. There's what happened and that's it.

[Ashley Banfield]

And here's where it gets interesting. Jen was asked if she contacted anybody after she knew she was going to sit down and talk with the feds. And Jen told the agents that she only spoke with two people before their interview. Her husband, Matt McCabe, and her friend and fellow witness for the prosecution, Carrie Roberts. Problem? Actually, big problem. The phone records later showed that she made several other calls to Peggy O'Keefe, who's John's mom, to a victim's witness advocate, and also to Brian Albert, who again is a Boston cop and the host of the house party that night, and Jen McCabe's brother in law. So when Jen McCabe failed to mention those other people that she called, like Brian Albert and Peggy O'Keefe, after asking the feds to give her 10 minutes before she agreed to speak with them, Karen's lawyer went for the jugular. He asked, quote, so when you told the agency only spoke with Matt and Kerry, that was a lie by definition. Jen said, no, that she'd just forgotten. But Alan Jackson pushed back hard, asking, quote, is there some shade of lie that I'm not aware of? End quote.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

There's nothing more than me calling and saying, hey, did they come to your house? That's what we did. When the media showed up, when Ms. Reed's private investigator showed up, we just give each other the heads up, hey, somebody's coming. Because we're just like normal moms. We're not used to, to this.

[Alan Jackson]

And that's helpful in making sure that the stories she tells are consistent with the stories you tell to different law enforcement agencies, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No, we are not telling stories. So let her finish. You said no.

[Ashley Banfield]

What?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I said no. We're not telling stories. We don't have to compare.

[Alan Jackson]

You also testified in your direct examination, staying with Ms. Roberts for just a second about a timeline that you and Ms. Roberts put together, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

That's another example of the two of you talking about your own perceptions and comparing and contrasting those perceptions and putting it down on paper, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No, I.

[Alan Jackson]

Yes or no?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

It's a no. If you can I explain or no?

[Alan Jackson]

I'm sure Mr. Brennan will have follow up questions. After you gave that answer to those law enforcement officers at that separate law enforcement agency, they asked you was there anyone else that you contacted in that 10 minute period before we got a chance to talk to you, and your answer was no, Correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Correct.

[Alan Jackson]

And that was a lie, Correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

It wasn't a lie? No.

[Alan Jackson]

Was it true?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I had.

[Alan Jackson]

Was it the truth or a lie?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

It wasn't a lie.

[Alan Jackson]

Okay, so it was the truth. You had not spoken to any other person between the time they contacted you telephonically and you said, I need 10 minutes, and then they came in the door. During that arc of time, you didn't talk to anybody else and or contact anybody else other than Matt McCabe and Kerry Robbins, now you're testifying that was a true statement?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I put. I can't answer that. Yes or no.

[Alan Jackson]

It's a pretty binary. Had you talked. Well, let me ask you this. In point of fact, you did talk to other people that you contacted others in addition to Matt McCabe and Carrie Roberts, correct? Yes or no?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes, I did.

[Alan Jackson]

Okay, so when you said no to the answer, did you contact anyone other than Matt and Carrie? That would be by definition, Ms. McKay, a lie, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No, it's not a lie.

[Alan Jackson]

Is there some shade of lie that I'm not aware of?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

It's the way you're asking the question. If I could explain. If I could explain Let me ask you. It will make more sense to you.

[Alan Jackson]

The agents asked you. I'm gonna go over this one more time, then I'm gonna move on. The agents asked you, in fact, did you contact anyone between the time we called you and set up the interview in the 10 minutes before we walked in the door? They asked you that question. Correct.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

The objections. Sustained. Watch the choice of language.

[Alan Jackson]

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I, I, I meant the law enforcement agency. That law enforcement agency. The members of that law enforcement agency contacted you.

[911 Operator]

Sorry.

[Alan Jackson]

They asked you who you had contacted between the time they first telephoned you and walked in the door ten minutes later, Correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Correct.

[Alan Jackson]

Okay, data point number one. Data point number two. You told them Matt and Carrie, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Correct.

[Alan Jackson]

You would actually contact. They then asked you, did you contact anyone else other than Matt and Kerry? Correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Correct.

[Alan Jackson]

And you said no, is that correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

At that moment, I said no. Yes. No, at that moment. Because they had just come in my house. Only one person can talk.

[Alan Jackson]

You said the word no.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

She was finishing her answer. I had said no because I'm going to be. I was in a situation where there are two officers from. A different agent had come in, were asking me questions, or they had said, can I come in and ask you questions? At first I thought they were selling something. Then they identified themselves. I just dropped my kids off at school. School. Going to be a completely honest. I hadn't brushed my teeth. I. So I kind of made some.

[Alan Jackson]

Your Honor, this is so.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Next question.

[Alan Jackson]

Thank you. Ms. McCabe, after you said no, that you hadn't contacted anybody else, those two law enforcement officers from that separate agency who had told you it was a crime to lie to them, they left, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Subsequent to that, Mr. McCabe, your husband. Objection.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Sustained.

[Alan Jackson]

They left you their card so you could call them if need be, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes, they did.

[Alan Jackson]

And you, in fact, did call them back, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes, I did.

[Alan Jackson]

Without telling me the content of the conversation you had, did you have a conversation with Mr. McCabe? Objection.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Sustained.

[Alan Jackson]

Did you call them back and say, I'm calling you back because my husband told me that I lied to you and I better clear that lie up.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

So sustainability jurors, remember I told you before that only answers to questions are evidence. Be mindful of that. Next. Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Ultimately called these officers back, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

And you explained to them that you had been untruthful with them, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I explained that I had forgotten to mention a couple people that I had reached out to.

[Alan Jackson]

You had forgotten. Is that your testimony?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

You had forgotten. You Remembered Matt and you remembered Carrie, but you had forgotten the others that you had just contacted maybe 30 minutes before.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

There were five people that you contacted, weren't there?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I contacted Matt.

[Alan Jackson]

Let's.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Let's go through no. 4 off the top of my head.

[Alan Jackson]

Okay, let's go through them.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Okay.

[Alan Jackson]

You contacted your husband, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

You contacted Carrie Roberts, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

You contacted Peggy O'Keefe, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Then, Ms. McCabe, you contacted the district attorney's office, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

My witness advocate.

[Alan Jackson]

The district attorney's office.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

My witness advocate who works for the district attorney's office.

[Alan Jackson]

Thank you, Ms. McCabe. And you also left out that you contacted Brian Albert himself, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes. My brother in law, for some reason.

[Alan Jackson]

Your brother in law who's the 30 year Boston Police detective, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

And on whose lawn John O'Keefe was found dead or dying? Objection. Correct.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

For some reason, you did not want these officers to know that you had communicated specifically with Brian Albert, the homeowner, just before you talked to them, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No. Incorrect.

[Alan Jackson]

There was some reason that was important enough for you to lie about that, even though you had been admonished that it's a crime to lie about that to those officers, correct?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Incorrect. I didn't lie to them. I had forgotten who I had called.

[Alan Jackson]

And all of a sudden you had an epiphany right after they walked out the door?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes. Matt said, who have you spoken to?

[Alan Jackson]

Objection.

[Ashley Banfield]

I mean, yikes. That's pretty damning stuff. And some pretty good lawyering on Alan Jackson's part. And then all of a sudden, again, like really abruptly out of the blue. Court adjourned for the day. But Alan Jackson said he still has a lot of questions for Jen McCabe. But there's no court scheduled for tomorrow. So you can bet that Alan Jackson will be up early and ready to go to continue his cross examination of Jen McCabe on Friday. Oh, and there's this. I cannot forget this little courtroom curveball. Late in the day, Judge Beverly Canoni called a private sidebar. And this one was not just for the lawyers. She asked the public to amscray, get out of the courtroom. And then she called in both legal teams and members of the O'Keefe and Reed families. And the cameras were shut off.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Why?

[Ashley Banfield]

Why would the judge do this? What a very strange sidebar. No one knows the answer, but the speculation is flying. Whatever it was, let's hope it was all on the actual court record. So by the end of day seven, Jen McCabe was still standing, but barely. I mean, she stuck to her story about that infamous Google search, how long to die in the cold. And she claimed she just forgot about calling key witnesses like Brian Albert and others. And she insisted that she never lied. Not to the feds, not to the court. But Alan Jackson, he made some, he made some headway with her on that one. And the defense clearly got under Jen McCabe's skin. And with her cross examination set to continue on Friday, it ain't over yet, folks. It ain't over yet. And we will be here for all of it. I'm Ashley Banfield. Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to subscribe because I am dropping crazy bonus episodes all the time and I don't want you to miss them. So get on there and subscribe and also leave me comments. I really love hearing what you have to say. Say I like hearing your suggestions too and I don't mind when you tell me what I'm doing wrong. I like that too. Thanks again everybody. And remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.

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[Court Announcer]

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Based on net sales from industry Data including Nielsen IQ, stack line and numerator as of Q4 2024 and top five products.