Karen Read Trial Day 8: “There’s Nothing Nefarious” | Jen McCabe Denies Collusion & Blames Butt Dials

Summary

Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield: Episode Summary

Title: Karen Read Trial Day 8: “There’s Nothing Nefarious” | Jen McCabe Denies Collusion & Blames Butt Dials
Release Date: May 3, 2025
Host: Ashleigh Banfield

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Ashleigh Banfield delves deep into Day 8 of the high-profile Karen Reed trial, focusing on intense courtroom exchanges, key testimonies, and pivotal evidence that continue to shape the narrative around the mysterious death of John O. Keefe. This episode offers a comprehensive breakdown of the day's events, highlighting critical moments and significant revelations that could influence the trial's outcome.

1. Introduction to Day 8

Ashleigh opens the episode by setting the stage for the eighth day of the Karen Reed trial. She emphasizes that Jennifer McCabe's testimony remains a focal point, unveiling new layers of complexity and tension in the case.

Ashleigh Banfield [00:04]: "Today was day eight in the Karen Reed trial and if you thought Jennifer McCabe's testimony was winding down, thank again because not only was she still on the stand, she was in the hot seat once again."

2. Defense's Cross-Examination of Jen McCabe

a. Discrepancies in Phone Calls

Alan Jackson, Karen Reed's defense attorney, begins by questioning Jen McCabe about inconsistencies in her recounting of the night John O. Keefe died. He zeroes in on the timing and details of phone calls made that morning.

Alan Jackson [00:04]: "You’ve been asked about with whom you communicated call at that call and thereafter shortly thereafter, within those next few minutes, correct?"

Jen admits to making calls but fails to convincingly explain why she omitted certain calls in her grand jury testimony, particularly a call to her sister Nicole at 5:07 AM lasting 38 seconds.

Jen McCabe [05:05]: "I did not speak to my sister, no."

b. Group Chat Evidence Suggesting Potential Collusion

Jackson introduces group chat messages between Jen, her sister Nicole, brother-in-law Brian Albert, and husband Matt McCabe. These messages, dated February 1, 2022, suggest possible coordination in crafting narratives related to John’s death.

Jen McCabe [11:34]: "I just was texting my family. I wasn't thinking anymore of who was going to see it."

Jackson argues that these private texts indicate collusion among witnesses, a point Jen vehemently denies.

Alan Jackson [12:05]: "That is a textbook example, what we've just seen, of witnesses colluding with one another about a subject matter that's under investigation."

c. Multiple 'Butt Dials' to John O'Keefe

A critical point of contention arises when Jackson questions Jen about seven phone calls made to John O'Keefe in a span of 19 minutes, all of which were missed. Jen attributes these to accidental "butt dials," but Jackson challenges the plausibility, highlighting the absence of voicemails typically left in such scenarios.

Alan Jackson [14:32]: "Butt dial seven times in the course of 19 minutes, less than 20 minutes. Correct."

Jen maintains that these were inadvertent and not deliberate.

Jen McCabe [14:51]: "That evening, I wasn't paying attention to butt dials or calls."

3. Prosecution's Redirect Examination

After the intense cross-examination, Prosecutor Hank Brennan takes the stage to conduct a redirect examination, aiming to humanize Jen and reinforce the prosecution's narrative.

a. Emotional Impact of Finding John O'Keefe

Brennan probes Jen’s emotional state upon discovering John’s body, eliciting responses that reflect shock, confusion, and urgency to seek help.

Jen McCabe [Prosecutor Brennan]: "I was shocked, confused, nervous, scared, anxious. All I wanted to do was get help for John as fast as I could."

b. Text Messages Revealing Genuine Concern

Brennan introduces Jen's text messages to John, showcasing her genuine concern and contradicting the defense's portrayal of calculated manipulation.

Prosecutor Brennan: "Please answer. Karen is worried. We need to find you. Please answer so I know you're okay."

c. Bond with Carrie Roberts Clarified

Addressing the notion of collusion, Brennan asks Jen about her relationship with Carrie Roberts, to which she unequivocally denies any coordinated effort.

Jen McCabe: "No, it wasn't collusion."

4. Witness Testimony: Karen Reed

As Jen exits the stand, Prosecutor Brennan presents a clip of Karen Reed’s testimony, adding depth to her perspective and experiences related to the case.

Karen Reed [18:42]: "John looked like a buffalo on the prairie... It was just a lawn in a heap... The fear of what I was going to see is the worst feeling I've ever experienced."

5. Forensic Evidence Presented by Hannah Knowles

a. Blood Alcohol Content Analysis

The prosecution calls forensic scientist Hannah Knowles from the Massachusetts State Police crime lab. She explains the blood alcohol testing process and reveals that Karen Reed's blood alcohol content (BAC) at the time of the incident could have been between 0.14 to 0.28. This is significantly above the legal limit of 0.08, suggesting impaired judgment.

Hannah Knowles: "Karen Reed's blood alcohol content could have been anywhere between 0.14 to 0.28 at the time."

b. Defense’s Challenge on Forensic Standards

Assistant DA Adam Lally concludes the questioning, after which Defense Attorney David Yannetti scrutinizes the accreditation and procedural standards of the Massachusetts State Crime Lab, questioning the reliability of the BAC findings.

David Yannetti: "She couldn't speak to the standards that are used at the hospital where Reed's blood was drawn."

6. Conclusion and Forward Look

Judge Beverly Canoni adjourns the court for the weekend, warning of an intense upcoming week filled with courtroom drama and further revelations.

Ashleigh Banfield [20:45]: "It's going to be another big week for Karen Reed. Jam packed with not many breaks last week. There were a lot. Not so much next week."

Ashleigh wraps up the episode by emphasizing the gravity of the trial and the relentless pursuit of truth.

Ashleigh Banfield: "The truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious."

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Key Takeaways:

• Inconsistencies in Testimony: Jen McCabe's fluctuating accounts of her phone calls and communications raise questions about her credibility.

• Potential Witness Collusion: The revealed group chats among Jen and her family members suggest possible coordination, though Jen denies any intentional collusion.

• Forensic Evidence Concerns: The high BAC levels indicated for Karen Reed introduce significant doubt about her ability to be solely responsible, while the defense challenges the forensic methods used.

• Emotional and Genuine Concern: The prosecution's presentation of Jen's emotional response and text messages aims to portray her actions as sincere and not manipulative.

• Anticipation for Upcoming Trial Days: With the jury recessed for the weekend, expectations are high for the subsequent days of the trial, promising more pivotal moments and evidence.

This episode meticulously dissects the intricate layers of the Karen Reed trial, showcasing Ashleigh Banfield's commitment to unraveling truth amidst the swirling complexities of legal battles, personal testimonies, and forensic debates.

Transcript

[Alan Jackson]

Foreign.

[Ashley Banfield]

Hi everybody, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is drop dead Serious. Today was day eight in the Karen Reed trial and if you thought Jennifer McCabe's Jen McCabe's testimony was winding down, thank again because not only was she still on the stand, she was in the hot seat once again. And this time things got uncommon comfortable. Let's just start from the top. Alan Jackson, Karen Reed's defense attorney, opened this morning up by zeroing in on the moment that everything began the night of John O. Keefes death. He asked Jen when she last saw Karen Reed's SUV parked outside of 34 Fairview Road. And her answer? Fuzzy. She said she thinks it was around 12:45am but she wasn't really paying attention to the time. She said not exactly a confident answer, especially from a witness who's been under scrutiny for two years. And then things started heating up. Alan Jackson asked Jen what calls she made that morning and what she testified to previously in front of the grand jury. She said she called Karen Reed, Julie Albert and a man named Tom Beatty. But then Alan Jackson asked Jen why she never mentioned that she called her Sister Nicole at 5:07am A call that lasted 38 seconds. You know why did you never mention that to the grand jury that you called over to 34 Fairview Road well before dawn.

[Alan Jackson]

You've been asked about with whom you communicated call at that call and thereafter shortly thereafter, within those next few minutes, correct?

[Jen McCabe]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

As a matter of fact, you were asked by Trooper Prince in a formal interview on February 1, 2022. I know that was a while ago, but in that initial formal interview three days after the event, Trooper Prince, the female trooper, asked you who you called or who you communicated with during that event. Important few minutes after you received the first phone call from Kaylee's phone, correct?

[Jen McCabe]

I'm not sure of our exact conversation, but she did ask me a number of questions.

[Alan Jackson]

Do you remember telling her I spoke with Karen Reed? Obviously.

[Jen McCabe]

Again, I answered whatever question she asked me. So if she asked, I did speak with Karen Reed that morning. Correct.

[Ashley Banfield]

Okay.

[Alan Jackson]

Ms. McAb, my question is did you tell Trooper Prince three days after the fact spoke with Karen Reed, yes or no?

[Jen McCabe]

If you have a report, I don't remember the specifics. I met with many, many police officers.

[Alan Jackson]

Sure. Ms. Mc, did that refresh your recollection as to what you told Trooper Prince?

[Jen McCabe]

I know what happened, so I just answered the questions yes or no.

[Alan Jackson]

Does that refresh your recollection as to what you told Trooper Prince?

[Jen McCabe]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Okay. You Told Trooper Prince that you had a conversation on Kaylee's phone with Ms. Reed, correct?

[Jen McCabe]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

That you also called Julie Albert after you got off the phone with Ms. Reed the first time?

[Jen McCabe]

Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

And then thereafter, at some point, you talked to Tom Beatty, correct?

[Jen McCabe]

I never spoke with Tom.

[Alan Jackson]

I'm sorry, My mistake. I. I misspoke. You called Tom Beatty?

[Jen McCabe]

Yes, I called Tom Beatty.

[Alan Jackson]

Did not get through to Tom Beaty.

[Jen McCabe]

I didn't. No one answered. Yes.

[Alan Jackson]

Okay. So in both of those statements to Trooper Prince, when you were asked about your communications and at the grand jury, by the way, at the grand jury, when you were asked who you communicated that morning, who you communicated with that morning, you didn't need to see a report, did you? You didn't ask to see a report like you're doing here?

[Jen McCabe]

Well, I'm asking because you're asking specific questions about what I said on a specific day. And depending on who's asking the question, they ask questions in a different manner. So the answer is always going to be the same. If you ask me who I spoke to, I'm always going to tell you I spoke to Ms. Reed and Julie. I called Julie Albert and I called Tom Beatty. The answer is always the way the question asked. And maybe some of the words that I use may be different and I don't remember on specific days. I. We've been questioned many times, but the answers are always going to be the same. The wording may be different.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah.

[Alan Jackson]

Finish. Is that answer?

[Jen McCabe]

Yes, I am.

[Alan Jackson]

Okay. I'm going to allow that, but let's move on. But you did make another phone call that morning that you left out of both of those statements, didn't you?

[Jen McCabe]

I'm not sure.

[Alan Jackson]

At 5:07am you called over to 34 Fairview, didn't you?

[Jen McCabe]

If it's in my phone record, then I must have.

[Alan Jackson]

It's in your phone records that you're aware of. Well, let me ask it a different way. You're aware that your phone records actually show that at 5:07 you called the 34th Fairview, Nicole Albert's phone, correct?

[Jen McCabe]

Correct.

[Alan Jackson]

It shows also that that call lasted 38 seconds.

[Karen Reed]

Correct.

[Jen McCabe]

I'm not sure what it shows.

[Alan Jackson]

You actually spoke to your sister Nicole that morning?

[Jen McCabe]

I did not speak to my sister, no.

[Alan Jackson]

So that 38 second call, what's your voicemail?

[Jen McCabe]

I'm not sure. All I can tell you is I never spoke to my sister Nicole that morning prior to waking her up.

[Ashley Banfield]

If you're Karen Reed, this little detail is important because this makes it a Whole lot more strange that the homeowners of 34 Fairview Road, Nicole and Brian Albert, never once stepped outside of that house on the morning that John O'Keefe was found frozen and battered on their front lawn. And it is especially strange after a phone call was at 5:07am between Jen and her sister Nicole, a call that lasted 38 seconds. And not only that, this isn't even the first call that Jen McCabe just forgot about in this case. Just ask those federal agents that showed up to Jen's house for an interview. She forgot about calls that she made right before that critical interview, too. Now, this doesn't mean that there's some grand conspiracy, but file that under things that make you go, huh? Like things that might just lead to reasonable doubt. And Alan Jackson pushed Jen McCabe even harder on the issue, asking her again why she never mentioned the call that she made to her sister when. When she went before the grand jury.

[Alan Jackson]

But you do acknowledge that you made a phone call at 5:07 to Julie Albert. I'm sorry? To Nicole Albert, your sister, over at 3430 in those early morning hours.

[Jen McCabe]

Yes. I learned after when I'm first being questioned, it's days after. It was a chaotic morning. I remembered the waterfall, Julie, then Tom Beatty. No, calling to my sister wasn't as poor important in my. Ingrained in my mind at that point.

[Alan Jackson]

And then you testified at a grand jury not hours or days later. Testified at a grand jury, months later, Correct?

[Jen McCabe]

Correct.

[Alan Jackson]

And at that grand jury, you also left out the fact that you contacted your sister, correct?

[Jen McCabe]

There was nothing. There's nothing nefarious. I remembered who I called. I didn't go back and look at phone records.

[Alan Jackson]

I didn't say it was nefarious. Why would you use the word nefarious?

[Jen McCabe]

Because there's nothing about me calling my sister that is nefarious. And I feel like you're insinuating it might be and it's not.

[Alan Jackson]

Did you use that word because it sounds nefarious?

[Jen McCabe]

No, I just used the word because I think that's how you're trying to portray something that is nothing.

[Alan Jackson]

Or did you use that word because you think that's how it's coming across, that's nefarious? Without contacting?

[Jen McCabe]

No, not at all.

[Ashley Banfield]

The jury also got to hear about Jen McCabe's statements, the ones that were contained in the reports of a former trooper named Michael Proctor. Proctor was the lead investigator in the case, and Jen had denied actually saying some of the things that were in Michael Proctor's report.

[Jen McCabe]

There was never a plan for Karen to come to my house.

[Alan Jackson]

Remember exactly what you told him with that regardless on that issue?

[Jen McCabe]

No, I don't.

[Alan Jackson]

Would it refresh your recollection to look at a police report that he drafted on that issue?

[Jen McCabe]

Well, those are his words or summary?

[Alan Jackson]

That's not my question. I know these are his words. He wrote it. My question is would it refresh your recollection about what you told him to take a look at his report?

[Jen McCabe]

I know what happened and I know what I told him. I don't know what's written in that report.

[Alan Jackson]

Yes or no?

[Jen McCabe]

I don't need to see the report.

[Alan Jackson]

Now because it would not refresh your recollection to see a report where communicating that you told him that you directed Ms. Reed to come to your house.

[Ashley Banfield]

So you know, not great. Then Alan Jackson dived into a series of group chats between Jen, her sister Nicole Albert, her brother in law Brian Albert, and Jen's husband Matt. The chats happened on February 1, 2022. So did a couple of text messages between between Jen and her sister Nicole. Those texts were sent the evening after John's body was found and Karen Reed's defense team put them up on a big screen for the whole courtroom to see. Here's one from 7:54pm Carrie talked to cops and kept simple. Jen's sister Nicole responded back to her telling Jen to get some rest and that they'll talk soon. To which Jen replied, any update? And Nicole responded, we'll get more info tomorrow. Don't want to text about it. Alan Jackson kept hammering this theme. Were Jen and her family coordinating their stories? Jen insisted no. But then came the group chat again, this is between Jen, her sister Nicole Albert, her brother in law Brian Albert and Jen's husband Matt. And again, the chat happened on 2-1-20, just three days after John O'Keefe died. Brian Albert writes, Julie said Channel 4 is in D and E. That's a reference to a pizza sub shop that's owned by Chris Albert, Brian's brother. Then Matt McCabe jumps in with this. Ask Chris to ask some questions. Tell them the guy never went in the house. Later in the text thread, Matt McCabe says, Yep, if she pleads out, this will end. If she doesn't, this'll be an episode. If it's not obvious that she that they're referring to in that group chat is Karen Reed. If you ask Jen McCabe, that chat meant John O'Keefe never made it inside the home at 34 Fairview Road. But if you ask the defense, it sure looked a lot like damage control. Alan Jackson asked if Jen. Alan Jackson asked Jen if their group chat messages would be, quote, a textbook example of witnesses colluding with one another about a subject matter that is under investigation.

[Alan Jackson]

You never intended, obviously, for any of those texts to become public, correct?

[Jen McCabe]

Those. I handed my phone over so I knew all my texts would be seen.

[Alan Jackson]

When you were writing the text, when the group was chatting back and forth or texting back and forth. Those were intended to be private text between and among just the people on the text string. Correct.

[Jen McCabe]

I just was texting my family. I wasn't thinking anymore of who was going to see it.

[Alan Jackson]

You certainly did not expect when you were writing those texts that the defense, Ms. Karen Reed's representatives, would ever get a hold of those texts. That was not in your mind? Correct.

[Jen McCabe]

Would never have been in my mind, no.

[Alan Jackson]

That is a textbook example, what we've just seen, of witnesses colluding with one another about a subject matter that's under investigation. Correct. And move her instruction.

[Jen McCabe]

All right, jurors, disregard that comment. Completely disregard that question.

[Alan Jackson]

Your Honor, may we approach?

[Jen McCabe]

Yes.

[Ashley Banfield]

Then came the most curious exchanges of the day. Alan Jackson asked about January 30, the day after John died. Phone records show that Jen McCabe made stops at her own house, O'Keeffe's house, the scene at 34 Fairview and the home of Canton Police Sergeant Michael Lenk. Jen never told anybody about the trip to Sergeant Michael Lank's house until she was confronted with her phone records. And what did she do at. At Lenk's house? She sat outside in a car for 45 minutes with Carrie Roberts and Michael Lenk's wife. And when Alan Jackson asked if they ever considered going inside the house, Jen McCabe just shrugged it off. Now, I don't know about you, but sitting outside of a cop's house for nearly an hour the day after a police officer is found dead, it doesn't look good. And then came the big one. Alan Jackson drilled into the seven phone calls that Jen McCabe made to John O'Keefe in the early morning hours of January 29th. Seven. Seven calls. All of them missed. Jen said they were accidental. You know, just good old fashioned butt dials. But Karen's defense lawyer wasn't buying it. He. He pointed out the obvious. If you butt dial someone who doesn't answer, it typically would go into their voicemail, and a long and silent but noisy voicemail would be left behind. But that didn't happen. With Jen's seven so called butt dials. There were no voicemails left behind. And Alan Jackson pointed out that the only way you could make sure that a voicemail isn't left behind is to unlock the phone, place the call, and then somehow hit end before the voicemail kicks in. And by the way, do all of this with your butt multiple times.

[Jen McCabe]

I think I was going back and forth to the door. I was texting him. I think I put my phone in my pocket. I think I inadvertently maybe have called him.

[Alan Jackson]

What did you call it at the last hearing?

[Jen McCabe]

I believe I called it a butt dial.

[Alan Jackson]

And it's not just one butt dial. Correct.

[Jen McCabe]

There could be multiple.

[Alan Jackson]

Yes, seven butt dials in the course of 19 minutes, less than 20 minutes. Correct.

[Jen McCabe]

That evening, I wasn't paying attention to butt dials or calls. I was going back and forth, listening to music, being with family. So if I inadvertently called his phone, I did not.

[Alan Jackson]

Inadvertently called him once, seven times. Correct. According to you?

[Jen McCabe]

According to the record.

[Ashley Banfield]

I don't know. Talk about reasonable doubt. And then Alan Jackson shifted gears and went straight to the heart of the prosecution's case against his client, Karen Reed. That now infamous Google search, Hoss long to die in the cold. That misspelled version of how long to to die in the cold. Jen said again that she Googled that phrase because Karen Reed asked her to in the frantic chaos of the scene where John was found in the snow. But Alan Jackson wasn't letting go. He said, there's no audio, no video, no witnesses. It's your word and your word only. He said. And Jen agreed, saying yes. Then came an even tougher question. Did you tell Carrie Roberts to lie to the grand jury? When Carrie told the grand jury that she overheard Karen demanding that you make that Internet search because Kerry already had to walk that testimony back last week, Alan Jackson clearly wanted jurors wondering, was Jen orchestrating a narrative right from the start? Next came dash cam footage that Jackson played. It was the video showing the moments after the first responders arrived at 34 Fairview. He pointed out that Jen McKay, not Karen Reed and not Carrie Roberts, was the person who was speaking with police officers. He said, you seem to be engaging police while the others were otherwise occupied. And Jen, she didn't deny it. She said, I was trying to help. I was speaking with officers. Court broke for lunch around 1pm but things picked up right where they left off. When the trial resumed, prosecutor Hank Brennan stood up for redirect and started filling in some of the gaps that the defense had opened up. He asked Jen how she felt when she found John in the snow, and her voice wavered a little bit as she said, I was shocked, confused, nervous, scared, anxious. All I wanted to do was get help for John as fast as I could. And she made clear she wasn't coached, that she was testifying from memory. She also doubled down on the hypothermia search again, saying she made that Google search at Karen Reed's request. The prosecutor Brennan did something clever. He started reading Jen's text messages to John, sent in real time as she allegedly was trying to figure out where John was. Please answer. Karen is worried. We need to find you. Please answer so I know you're okay. These messages painted a very different picture from a cold and calculated theory that the defense had laid out. The prosecutor asked about her bond with Carrie Roberts. Was it forged out of grief or something more coordinated? And Jen didn't hesitate. No, she said, it wasn't collusion. After days of blistering cross examination, dozens of texts, hours of questioning, and enough sidebar arguments to fill a law school school class, Jen McCabe was done and off the stand. And the second she left the courtroom, Prosecutor Brennan had a clip of Karen Reed all queued up and ready to play for the jury.

[Karen Reed]

There was a woman who was a mother to kids that were close to John's kids, who lived very close to the outbursts, in fact, when Jen was navigating John to the outwards, when I was driving, she said that it's near Ashley's house. Ashley and John are hooked up. Prior to John and I dating, either he's hurt himself and is incapacitated. He could be passed out on someone's couch, which is just weird. We're not on a campus. Everyone lives in their own home with children. Or he's sleeping with someone. And there were multiple women in the neighborhood of Fairview that John had been. And one of them very recently, before I started dating John. We'll backtrack later. I'm with Jenna Cade and Carrie Roberts, and Carrie Roberts is Ford Explorer. And I'm in the back leaning over the front two seats. Terry's driving and Jen's in the passenger seat. And I describe this to everyone. So you've probably heard this before, but John looked like a buffalo on the prairie. It was just a lawn in a heap that wasn't a bush or a hydrant or a dog. It was a weird shaped lump at that time in those elements. And I was looking to find him on the side of the road, I was expecting I'd find him. And the fear of what I was going to see is the worst feeling I've ever experienced. The anticipation of what, what is awaiting me was as extreme a feeling, I wouldn't say as extreme a feeling as the grief of realizing what happened to him.

[Ashley Banfield]

Next up, the prosecution called Hannah Knowles, a forensic scientist from the Massachusetts State Police crime lab. She walked the jury through blood alcohol testing and how it works. And after laying out the science, she also dropped a key number based on blood drawn at the Good Samaritan Hospital. She said Karen Reed's blood alcohol content could have been anywhere between 0.14 to 0.28 at the time that prosecutors believe she struck John O'Keefe. That's around 12:45am and can I just say, that blows way past the legal limit of 0.08. It's like double to triple the legal limit. After that. The assistant DA Adam Lally wrapped his questioning and defense attorney David Yannetti stepped right in. He focused on the Massachusetts State Crime Lab, specifically how that crime lab is accredited and whether hospital labs follow the same strict procedures. And the forensic scientist had to admit that she couldn't speak to the standards that are used at the hospital where Reid's blood was drawn. And Then just before 3:40pm Judge Beverly Canoni dismissed the jury for the weekend, letting them know they should expect full days in court all next week. So get ready. It's going to be another big week for Karen Reed. Jam packed with not many breaks last week. There were a lot. Not so much next week. And we're going to be back next week, too, with more from inside the courtroom. I'm Ashley Banfield. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, folks, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.