B (10:35)

I believe it's real. It's a large cell, that's for sure. But if you look at the picture in detail, look around the toilet, it's got the. The rails around it. That's a handicapped cell. That's why it's so big. And as far as there's been comments about there's plastic in the trash can, remember, because, you know, you could suffocate yourself with that. The guy was not on suicide watch. He's a narcissist. He wanted to live and do whatever. So I believe the video is real. And what else I noticed, kind of weird he had Toilet paper sitting on the floor in the corner. Which for the life of me I can't figure out why he would have that there. And the cage that was like right in front of him. I zoomed in on that picture and I ran it through an AI and I cleaned it up. It's like a small flat screen television. Maybe he's. Maybe that's what his television service is. Probably it's got a cord coming down that's plugged into the wall. So there's the AC power. And then if you really look at the picture, there's like other cables there that are going into the TV monitor. That's probably the cable TV service or the antenna service.

A (11:55)

So that it was weird. I thought, I thought if they watch television, it's on an iPad. But maybe not every jail or prison has been upgraded. But let's go there, the jailer prison, because a lot of people are wondering if this is the Idaho maximum Security institution. Just because this is the key. He's wearing dark pants in this particular video. And when he was in Lato county and made many of his appearances prior to him wearing civilian clothes in court, he was in orange always. It didn't look like he was in black. Is it interchangeable in county jails?

B (12:32)

Okay, so what they do when you're going to a county jail or you're even being transferred, they put you in something like orange. So you stand out, let's say you run away or something. People could pick you out of a crowd because it just stands out. Now perhaps the pants and the shirt that he's wearing, that's just the regular everyday garb in the jail.

A (12:55)

And does this video look authentic to you or does it look like it's manipulated?

B (12:59)

No, it looks, you know, when I first looked at it and they were zooming in and zooming out, I'm thinking, well, something's funny here. But obviously from the position of the camera, it's probably up on the wall in a corner and they're controlling it from, well, the control center or wherever. They have a joystick on it and they can zoom in on it. So essentially they could see the entire cell. I mean, somebody released this. I think somebody's going to catch some shit over this, obviously, because it's not for public dissemination. But then what's the difference between this and a body cam that a cops are wearing out on the street? Could this be considered a security violation? I mean, maybe.

A (13:47)

Does he have an expectation of privacy though? I mean, listen, the guy's in a cell, there Are cameras monitoring him? There's a, this, this video clearly is being shot off of a monitor that is monitoring him and the camera is taking that picture to the monitor. But he doesn't have that kind of an expectation of privacy, does he?

B (14:02)

Not really. I mean, he wasn't on suicide watch. But on the other hand, he was a high prized inmate. So they were probably coming by and checking him all the time. I, I've been in places. I mean, the toilet is in full view. If they really wanted to, they could zoom in on him while he's sitting on the toilet taking a dump, as far as that goes. You know, standing there taking a leak. He has.

A (14:27)

Speaking of that.

B (14:28)

What was his name?

A (14:29)

Speaking of that. That's the first indication that this is a handicap cell other than the sheer size of it because it's huge. The, the, the obvious, you know, signal is that there are those bars over the toilet.

B (14:42)

Yeah, absolutely. And in a county jail setting, they're more liberal with space than they are, let's say, in a state prison, because they don't have any inmates that are in there. They don't have as many inmates in there with them. And remember that a county jail is a transient setting where people are coming and going. And when somebody's in a prison, whether it be federal or state, somebody in his status, he's there forever. He ain't ever getting out.

A (15:14)

So that, you know, I was, I was wondering when they, when they first brought him to, well, listen, when they first brought him in Pennsylvania and then moved him to Layta county in Moscow and then subsequently to Ada County, Ada county in, in Boise, he's, you know, he is a PC inmate, a protective custody inmate. He's a high profile inmate of special treatment. Do they interchange the handicapped cells for these PC cells? Meaning, hey, we, this is county jail. We don't have everything, but we can put the high profile inmate in the handicapped cell.

B (15:53)

You know what it's in a shoe, the special housing unit. Who knows how many people were in there. Maybe it's just what was open at the time in the easiest place for them to put him, to keep an eye on him. But no, not everybody who goes to the shoe goes to a, to a handicapped cell. Luck of the draw. I don't know.

A (16:14)

Well, certainly lucky because there's a lot of space in there. Boring space, but, but space nonetheless. Can you talk to me about that cage? The, the, everybody's talking about him putting the, the piece of paper or whatever it is he's holding up on top of this cage, there's some white Styrofoam cups up there. What is that cage?

B (16:31)

Looks like That's a security locker. It's got a padlock on the side of it. It's. I zoomed in. I took an AI and I zoomed in on that picture, and I cleaned it up. And to me, it appears to be. It's a monitor that's in there. They don't want him to get his hands on it, break it, throw it at a cop or something. So it's a secured locker, and who knows what he put on top. I did zoom in. Like I said, I zoomed in. If you look like at the very front. Front, not his front, but our field of view on the very top, like in the middle, that's an ID card. That's there. You can tell by the layout of the picture and the size of the card. So he's keeping it. Or he was keeping his personal items there.

A (17:20)

So is the locker something that's for his personal use, meaning he can lock his things up in it, or is the locker to keep the TV locked away from him, meaning he'd have to look at the TV through the cage?

B (17:30)

I believe that it's probably just for the tv, because if it was his personal locker, he wouldn't have all that shit sitting on top of it, would he? He would have it in there. So that's a security thing for the jail.

A (17:46)

All right. In one of the videos, and there are two that we've seen so far, in one of the videos, he's cleaning one of the black shoes. And it looks that he may have three pairs. A pair of black shoes, the orange shower shoes. And then it looks as though he's got some Converse sneakers on. But at closer glance, they look like they might be slippers or slip ons of some kind. What do you see there?

B (18:07)

Okay, probably three kinds of shoes. We know that the. We know he's got a pair of shower shoes. We know that he's got shoes that he most likely wears when he's being transported. And the other pair of shoes is probably shoes he's wearing while he's in the jail. Mean, I don't know what his commissary status was when he was in county. I'm sure he had money because there was a lot of crazy women I understand sending him money. Perhaps he could buy a pair of private shoes, tennis shoes or something. But I certainly didn't see any in the video or the picture.

A (18:45)

So it's not unusual to have three pairs of shoes. When you're an inmate, you're going to.

B (18:50)

Have a pair of steel toe. He won't because he's never going outside on a work detail. You're going to have your shower shoes, you're going to have your tennis shoes, you're going to have your steel toe boots. When you're on a work detail, they give you. So, yeah, you can have several pairs of shoes. I know people that had two pairs of tennis shoes. They don't care because remember, the prison makes money off everything they sell. And as long as it's not like a fire or safety hazard, they don't care.

A (19:22)

Okay. The other thing I wanted to ask you about was the bed. It, at first glance it looked sort of like a table. It looked weird. But if you zoom in, it looks like maybe that's a blanket spread out on the bed. Tell me your observations of that bed.

B (19:34)

You know what? That's the damnedest thing. It's like, it's. It's almost like it's like put away or rolled up or something. It doesn't look like a normal bed in a jail cell. I mean, maybe there's a requirement during the day that you have to pick your stuff up and they don't want you sleeping. But he's not sent. He wasn't sentenced there. So an unsentenced inmate has more rights and he was never going out into general population. Actually, I don't know what to make of the bed. It did not look normal to me at all.

A (20:08)

Did it look like an infirmary bed?

B (20:11)

You know what, the handicap cell. Maybe it was because, you know, it looked kind of like it was elevated part of it. So you know what? I think you're right on the money there.

A (20:22)

Can I ask you when. When they do their assessments and there are so many levels of assessments. There's the medical assessment when you first come into a jail. There are the, you know, pretrial sentencing assessments as well. Are inmates. And maybe it's different everywhere, but in the many institutions that you've experienced, are inmates put into medical cells while they're medical assessments? Is this possibly a temporary setup for him while he's in an assessment period?

B (20:47)

When you first come in through R D, that's receiving and discharge. Every jail and every prison has them. Some places they call them central intake. You're going to meet a psych, somebody from psychology. You're going to meet somebody from medical. They're going to go over your history with you, and if it turns out your cuckoo, they'll put you In a padded room or something, put you on psych meds, possibly isolate you, but other than that, they're just gonna throw you in general population and throw you in a cell. They're not just gonna put you in a special place. So, no, that doesn't happen.

A (21:25)

Okay. The other thing is, a lot of people have talked about the. The plastic bag in the garbage and the. The electrical cord that's hanging down the wall, all of those things. Is that normal in a. In a prison cell? Because it looks to me like that would be a pretty dangerous thing of his ilk to have.

B (21:42)

He's got the tv. There's no question in my mind that's a monitor or a tv. The power cord is coming from the bottom. They've plugged the TV into that. You can see other cables that look like they're cable TV cables, the round ones going into the monitor. So they probably. They don't have any problem with him having it. Like I said, the guy's not on suicide watch. Could he have wrapped his neck around it and maybe hung himself? Yeah, he could do the same.

A (22:12)

That's my question. That's my question. Because originally, when he was in Pennsylvania, we were told he was on suicide watch and he had a suicide vest on. So it was pretty clear they were worried about a guy who's just maybe coming to terms with the fact that he'll never see the light of day again. Does this tell you perhaps that he has been in the system for a while and they have determined now that he's not a risk?

B (22:34)

Yeah, that's what it looks like to me, that he stabilized. Remember when they grabbed his ass in Pennsylvania? They really didn't know what to make of him. So just for safety sake, they put him on some type of PC suicide watch. But once he filtered his way down and got into Idaho, they figure, all right, this guy, I don't want to say he's normal, because he's certainly not normal, but this guy's not really a threat to himself. So getting to the electrical cord, could he hang himself with it? Yeah, I imagine he could. He could have done that with the jumpsuit, too. The plastic bags in the trash can, that's normal also because they come by once, I don't know, two, three times a week, whenever, and they just swap the bags out. So other than this being a handicap sell, there's nothing special going on in there at all.

A (23:29)

The other thing that I noticed was his hands. They are bright red.

B (23:35)

Washing his hands. Well, remember, this dumbass is obsessive compulsive. So he's washing his hands constantly. Imagine he's got some major irritation. Unless he's doing something else with, you know, with his hands, who knows? But his feet might be the same way. He's washing his hands. He's washing his feet. Who knows? But yes, it's extremely odd. I've never seen an inmate anywhere that I was at in all the 11 places that had red hands like that anywhere.

A (24:09)

It certainly tracks with what other inmates have reported that he's constantly washing his hands. He showers for over 45 minutes. And then the other report was that he's on the phone with his mom all the time, which now we are finding digitally. When the forensics team went in, they discovered he was calling his mom two hours after. Within two hours of slaughtering those k. Wow.

B (24:31)

You know, it's expensive to use those phones and those tablets to make video calls. Somebody had some money somewhere. But that also shows that he's a psychopath. It's like killing those four kids didn't make any difference to him. It's like, hi, mom, how are you? Oh, okay, son, I'm doing fine. No emotion. Just a cold hearted son of a bitch, really.

A (24:56)

Or that he's a sociopath and he connects to one or two people and no one else. And he somehow needed some kind of emotional comfort after such an incredibly big emotional experience as murder.

B (25:07)

Mom was his outlet. Possibly, but we also don't know. Did he call? I mean, they got into his cell phone, I suppose. Didn't have many friends. I mean, have they really done a breakdown on what his social life was?

A (25:24)

Well, no, nothing other than what would pertain to the investigation. And these forensic experts that, that basically reamed his hard drive and his phone determined that he essentially just called his mom and when she didn't answer, called his dad. And the weird thing is, Larry, he called, he called them mother and father, meaning that's his appellation for his own mom and dad. He didn't call him mom didn't call him dad. He said father. Why isn't mother picking up the phone?

B (25:51)

Sounds like he's like some kid in old England or something. Very.

A (25:55)

Or Norman Bates. Right? The Bates Hotel, Bates Motel.

B (25:58)

I don't think anybody's gonna restore his sanity ever.

A (26:02)

Right. Let me ask you something. If that cage in the cell that we see in the, in the video is a personal locker, have you seen that before? Have you seen that inmates have their own personal locker where they can lock up their own things?

B (26:16)

Oh, yeah. All the time you're supposed to keep, you're supposed to keep. Because of safety reasons and theft reasons, you're supposed to keep your stuff in your locker and keep your locker locked at all times. I mean, I know of situations where people were lax, they didn't keep their locker locked. People got contraband cell phones and they got drugs and such, and they would hide them in someone else's locker so they weren't under suspicion. And then the institution, they bring the dogs through, the drug sniffing dogs, maybe it's bombs too, I don't know. But they bring the dogs through and the dogs, they sniff out drugs in somebody's locker who you know damn well this person is not on drugs. Some Bible thumper or something. So, yeah, you're supposed to keep your locker locked at all times. He obviously doesn't have, in this county jail setting a personal item locker because he's got all that shit up on top. So it's probably.

A (27:17)

There's no other surfaces. I noticed that there's no other surfaces and I couldn't figure out why he's standing sort of staring straight at the locker. Is this the only way that it appears he can watch his television if it's sitting in that locker and he has to walk up to it?

B (27:30)

Perhaps. I mean, look at the orientation of where the bed is. It's a long way away and it's off to the side. He'd have an easier time looking at that monitor while he's sitting on the toilet than when he's laying in bed. Maybe he can reach in there, he can pivot it or something. Maybe. How does he change the channel? Does he have a remote or do the cops have to change the channel? I've seen it happen both ways, but in most places I've been at where they have the tv, you don't get your own TV set. They've got it like wall mounted up on the. On the wall near the ceiling. And either the cops can change the channel or there's a remote that gets passed around.

A (28:17)

Do you call them cops or do you call them guards?

B (28:19)

You know what, this is funny, Ash? They. They don't like being called guards. When I first got into custody, I called one of them a guard. He goes, I'm not a guard, I'm a correctional officer. They want to be called. They think they're a cop or something. So, yeah, they want to be called cos. Correctional officers, if they're a lieutenant, they think they're in the army. They want to be called lt. They've got all these little acronyms. But then the inmates, we came up with names like this one is Dumbass, Robocop, Butt Head, Lieutenant, Flashlight, Pig Farmer. There was like nicknames for every cop that was out on the compound and everybody knew who you were talking about. This one joint I was at in Texas, in El Paso, there was a counselor or is he a case manager? He's either either a counselor or case manager. His name was Sedillos was his last name. And this guy lied about everything. So one day I coined the phrase two Face Sedillos. And then within a week everybody was just calling the guy two faces because he was such a liar. So.

A (29:35)

Let me ask you something, Larry. You know so much about what it's like on the inside and it's fascinating for those of us who've never had the experience, but do you ever, and this is going to sound like a weird question, but do you ever miss it? Do you ever miss that culture?

B (29:50)

You know what? I was on a podcast, STS Nation, Surviving the Survivor. I've been on there several times. Joel Waldman, and he said I'm the only person because he has inmates and people on talking about almost like what you do that ever said they enjoyed being in custody. For me, okay, I'm 65 or my 64 now. People don't believe I'm 64. They go, you can't. You didn't believe how old I was last time.

A (30:17)

You don't look at.

B (30:19)

Prison preserved me because it was a stress free environment. At least it was for me. I didn't really have to work. I could sleep all day long. I became educated on the law. I didn't know any of this shit. I could break down a federal criminal case for you from the time they kick your door in and give you your indictment, criminal complaint, right up until the time you're sentenced and they ship your ass off to federal prison. I know all the steps and this is what a lot of people hire me for because people do not trust their lawyer. So I kind of enjoyed prison. I thought it was like a pressure relief. I had a prison psychiatrist, not psychologist, psychiatrist in Arizona say that I treated the federal prison system like it was my own personal adult amusement park. And I was just having too good of a time in there. You know what? Maybe the lady was right. Maybe she was. I don't want to go back. Although sometimes I tell my wife, I go, yeah, you know, I should probably go back for a month or so, get a refresher course so I can be up on the new laws and policies. I run half a dozen Facebook groups for inmates, federal inmates and their families. And I've got recent people that have come out of custody that keep me up to speed on exactly what the policies are. So I know what's going on in these places.

A (31:50)

Okay, here's an even tougher question. Did the correctional system correct you? Meaning, are you tempted to commit crime still?

B (32:00)

You know, I don't break the law. I get to. I like doing. Working with criminals. I really do. I was a professional criminal. I tell people I have a PhD in criminology. Even the cops would say, oh, he's got a PhD. They didn't know that. I gave myself the PhD. I'm not out there committing crime. People call me that are committing crime. People who are in trouble and such. But, you know, I get people call me that are actively committing crimes. I could say this on the air because I don't give a shit. Actively committing crimes. And they want. Remember I was a troubleshooter for organized crime. Let's say Ashley wanted to commit fraud. And you would bring your crime to me, Ash. And I would look at it and say, ash, you don't know what the fuck you're doing. You don't. I would take your crime and I would make your crime better, more efficient. I was like an efficiency expert for the mob. So I get people that call me that are involved in crimes, and I listen to their stuff. I go, you know what? I'm not involved in that anymore. I wish you well. I really do. Good for you. Oh, and by the way, the FBI is monitoring my phone calls, so if I were you, I wouldn't call back. And they don't.

A (33:17)

Unless you need your services for the sentence that they get.

B (33:23)

I suppose so. I imagine a lot of the money I get, I don't know. But I get money. My clients pay me through Zelle Cash app, Venmo, PayPal, and I account for every penny of it. I don't need the IRS kicking my door in for some bullshit. So I declare everything I do. I'm not.

A (33:44)

Okay, one last question.

B (33:45)

Again.

A (33:47)

What would say that again?

B (33:48)

I don't need to get in trouble again. Too many people are relying on me. My kids and my grandchildren. They all think I'm a fucking ATM machine, you know? So I think I'll stay out of custody.

A (34:00)

Good idea. Okay, last question about custody. When I looked at that video of Brian Kohberger, and again, I don't have confirmation that it's authentic, but it sure does seem like it. Especially with the information you've given. All I keep thinking is what do you do all day when you're in a cell like that?

B (34:21)

You watch your tv, you read your letters and you read books and you think about how your rest of your life is going to be. This existence and this experience. I mean, maybe it. Maybe it runs through his mind that he hopes he dies. Imagine Ash living in your bathroom for the rest of your life, having no exposure or contact really with people. Maybe a doctor, a religious person, your lawyer. I don't know if his mom can come visited him. When I was in custody, we didn't have tablets. There was a phone and you got 300 minutes a month. It was 21 cents a minute to call anywhere in the country. That was it. There were no tablets. Now they've got MP3 players. There were no MP3 players. You were lucky. And you were lucky if the phones even worked half the time. So really he's got it better being where he's at than a lot of people did years ago.

A (35:25)

But pretty, pretty mundane and pretty miserable if the biggest activity in this video is just walking from one side of the cell to the other and staring at whatever's in the cage.

B (35:34)

He was staring almost like he was mesmerized. Looking into that cage. He was watching something. And that's what led me to believe. Yeah, other than zooming in and enhancing the picture, that it's probably a television set, a monitor, who knows? It's something but the guy's doing forever. He knew that when they threw him in the county jail, that he was never going to get out. He wasn't going to skate on those kind of charges. I mean, he'd be lucky if somebody killed him, put him out of his misery.

A (36:06)

But don't you think, as an inmate who hasn't been sentenced yet or even convicted yet, you. You have some kind of delusion. Especially Brian Coburger. You have some kind of delusion that you're going to beat the system and you're going to walk.

B (36:20)

I suppose so. But he also knew they had all kinds of evidence on him. He knew. I mean, all they had to do is get him for one murder.

A (36:27)

He's such an asshole, though. He thinks he's smarter than everyone else. He proved that the way he spoke to his professors and his fellow students.

B (36:33)

I guess the asshole found out that he wasn't a lot of it. I believe he's also extremely arrogant in his views of other people. So being an asshole and being arrogant, I mean, it's Parallel, but it's two different things. So we'll get. We'll check off both marks for him in the little boxes.

A (36:53)

So what do you make of the other report that we've been hearing from the maximum institution in Idaho? That the inmates have made a concerted effort and are taking shifts all day and all night to bang on doors, yell through the vents, and make his life a living hell and not let him get a moment's rest.

B (37:09)

I believe they were already doing that. These people that are in the same type of custody situation like him, that have no contact, no visiting, whatever it may be, this is how they communicate. And Brian Kohlberger is like a target of opportunity. So I'm sure they're shouting stuff at him, telling him what they are going to do to him once they get to him, what they're going to do to his family. And this is all like a pressure cooker. It's driving him nuts. And the cops, the correctional officers, excuse me, you think they care? They don't care at all. They're letting it happen. He has a reasonable expectation to safety. That's about it. And I know he's complaining that he's being abused. Too bad, Colberger, you dumbass. That's not abuse. Once somebody gets their hands on him, and they will actually sooner or later, let's look at Jeffrey Dahmer, Whitey Bowl, Bulger, Richard Ramirez. They got to all these people. In the coming years, Kohlberger is not going to be the prize jewel, is he? All of a sudden, somebody left a door open, didn't they? He went into the shower and nobody was watching him. Somebody put something in his food. So I honestly believe that he'll be dead in the next two, three years.

A (38:33)

And two to three.

B (38:35)

Oh, yeah, because we have to let the situation in the facility become lax. They will become complacent for sure. Takes a while for that to happen. And it won't be the cops that'll get them. Although the cops would love to kill him, I'm sure of it. It's going to be another inmate. I mean, the cops are scandalous, too. Look at Jeff Epstein. Gee, they just happen to be asleep. They just happen not to look.

A (39:04)

Topic for a whole other podcast. Yeah, Larry, let me ask you this. To the rest of us, Bryan Coburger is the ultimate outlier. He is not one of us. He is so far outside the flock. We stare and in wonder. How is it someone gets that way? Is that the same dynamic playing out with the inmate population? Do they look at him as the ultimate outlier? Or do they think he's sort of one of like them because they're killers, too?

B (39:32)

Most hated people in a prison are people that play with kids. And these college students were kids. They were. And people that are informants. Let's just say that if for some crazy reason this guy got into general population, you got a better chance of Jesus reappearing than it happening. The Aryan nation, they're not going to claim him. The dirty white boys, they're not going to claim him. No prison gang or anything are going to want to be affiliated with him. So he will be an outcast, and he is an outcast. I mean, maybe somebody will try to cozy up to him. Maybe he will appear normal. I was on Conair. That's the prison transport plane where they fly you around. I was chained up next to a guy that was a serial killer. Guy killed 11 people, and we were all chained and stuff. And I felt safe. And the guy seemed as normal as you or I. I don't know if I seem normal, but the guy seemed normal. And I said, well, why did you do it? This was a great opportunity to question this guy. He said, well, they deserved it, and nobody will miss the them anyway. I'm like, okay, what do you say to that? So no one's going to claim Kohlberger. No one's going to give a about him. And anybody. Anybody that takes him out, stabs him, takes their padlocks, they put them in a sock. They all gather the padlocks up, put them in a sock. Boom, they hit him over the head, split his head open like a watermelon. All the brain parts will come out that I know. He making the face. That person will achieve folk hero status. They will. He'll be a hero to the general population. And the cops will do their cursory investigation. Cops aren't going to care. No one's going to care. There's a strong possibility. I mean, look at Chris Watts. Killed his wife and killed what? His two kids. And his unborn son is unborn. He got assaulted and he was in protective custody. They had to move him out of state. I think he's in Wisconsin now or something. So there's a possibility maybe Kohlberger will end up in adx Colorado. That's the federal prison. That's underground. And you don't see anything. They got to pipe sunlight into you, as they say. So he may end up leaving the Idaho prison, but in a special housing unit. As long as the cops don't get too Complacent. He'll be safe. He'll. He'll be just fine there personally. Is there a Take some out?

A (42:18)

Is there a cultural hierarchy within the inmate population where even amongst murderers and rapists, that guy. That guy's not one of us.

B (42:28)

Boom. He's the low man. Nobody is going to accept him, Ashley. No one's going to claim responsibility for him. Nobody's going to protect him. Nobody's going to spe. Stand up for him. He's below the lowest of the totem pole. Remember, everybody has kids. Grandchildren, nieces, nephews. They've got kids. College students, someone they care about. This guy had no regard for these. These kids and no reason. Okay? It's not like somebody ripped him off, as far as I know. Or, you know, it's not likely that one of these kids ripped him off on a drug deal or something, that there's a monetary issue. This is just some guy that couldn't get a date. As far as I'm concerned. He wanted one of these women. He didn't know how to go about it. And I don't believe that he showed up at that house with the intent on killing four people, he stumbled upon those other people, and he had to take them out. I mean, it is what it is. They're unfortunate. They're victims of a circumstance. And wasn't there one of those girls they said really was his target?

A (43:40)

Well, we're just finding documents now that say that the surviving roommate, Dylan Mortensen, gave one among many interviews. Over a half dozen interviews. But one of her interviews, she said she heard the words coming out of the killer's mouth. It's okay, Kaylee. I'm here for you. Whereas the other reports had been, it's okay. I'm here to help you. So it's unclear.

B (44:03)

Yeah. How did he know who Kaylee was? I'm sure that the guy had been staking the house out. He knew enough about it. Isn't there evidence or something that he had parked in front of the house for extended periods of time?

A (44:16)

He'd been there since June. He'd taken multiple trips into that area since June. And the murders were in November.

B (44:25)

So there's a possibility he knew who lived there. There's a possibility he knew that maybe there were other people inside.

A (44:32)

And, Larry, there are also reports from the kids that they couldn't understand why Kaylee's dog, Murphy, would run into the woods behind when they went out, you know, to take the dog for a pee. The dog would take off into the woods and not come back. They also said they saw, they thought they saw a figure lurking in the woods. So I am fully convinced that he was stalking and watching, especially through those back two windows where Kaylee and Maddie had their bedrooms.

B (44:59)

Sounds like it to me. I mean, the guy was nuts. The guy was trying to gather whatever intel he could. And if there were trees out in the woods, let's say he was really analytical and I was going to do something like that, not that I ever would. You can go pick up a WI FI video camera. You could attach it to a tree, point it looking right inside the house. You don't even have to be there. They're doing that now to break into houses and target people here in la. So he wasn't really sophisticated. There's better ways to kill people than the way. Not that I would know. I'm just saying supposing. But there's better ways to kill people than the way that he did.

A (45:41)

Well, listen, I appreciate you weighing in on the authenticity of this video and all the other issues that we, we get to talk about. I could, I could talk to you for hours. Thanks for this, Larry.

B (45:50)

You betcha.

A (45:51)

My great thanks to Larry Levine and him helping me to sort of sort through this really fascinating video that, that, you know, has, has surfaced. And that's where we're going to leave it for now. A possible glimpse of Bryan Coburger behind bars. A reality check from someone who's actually lived prison life. And an inside look at the case files that still continues to shock us. And by the way, there's still so much we don't know. Will we ever find out from Bryan Coburger? Or maybe a therapist or a doctor or a professor or somebody, Somebody he's confided in, Maybe his parents. Will we ever find out why those four, why Kaylee, Maddie, Ethan and Zanna? Why 1122 King Road. What was it? Were they random? Was it just anybody? Target of opportunity? Or was he angry? Was it something about those kids that he wanted to avenge? It's the motive. It's the biggest question. It's the question that has all of us asking. These are the people we fear because they could come for us. They're so random. We'll keep following every development in this case, so make sure you're subscribed on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen. Because when the next twist drops, you're going to want to hear it here first. I'm Ashley Banfield. Thank you so much for listening and watching. And remember, the truth isn't just serious. It's drop dead serious.