Kohberger Caves: Shocking Plea Deal to Escape Death Penalty | Brian Entin Joins Ashleigh Banfield

Summary

Summary of "Kohberger Caves: Shocking Plea Deal to Escape Death Penalty | Brian Entin Joins Ashleigh Banfield"

Date Released: July 1, 2025
Podcast: Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield
Host: Ashleigh Banfield
Guest: Brian Entin

---

Introduction and Current Developments

[00:00] Ashleigh Banfield opens the episode with a sense of disbelief regarding recent developments in the Brian Kohberger case in Idaho. She highlights the unprecedented nature of the prosecutors offering Kohberger a plea deal: life imprisonment without parole and the removal of the death penalty option. Kohberger has accepted this deal, which is set to be finalized on Wednesday. Banfield expresses shock, noting that the decision comes merely weeks before the trial was scheduled to begin.

Defense Attorney’s Challenges

Banfield delves into the probable reasons behind the plea deal, focusing on Anne Taylor, Kohberger's public defender. She suggests that after being prohibited from presenting an alternative perpetrator theory in court, Taylor may have recognized the weakness of her case, leading her to believe that winning at trial was improbable. [04:30] Banfield states:

"Ann Taylor lost that opportunity to mount the defense that someone else did it to hopefully come up with a grain of, you know, reasonable doubt for a jury."

This inability to present a robust defense likely pressured Taylor into recommending the plea deal to avoid the prospect of Kohberger facing the death penalty.

Impact on Victims’ Families

Banfield empathetically discusses the repercussions of the plea deal on the families of the victims. She outlines the emotional turmoil and lack of closure they may experience, juxtaposing the plea deal against a potentially prolonged trial and appeals process. She remarks:

"There are two parties here, and neither one like. And when I say two parties, there are two parties of those who are affected most by this..."

[09:30] Brian Entin joins the conversation, expressing his own surprise at the plea deal, having previously believed it was highly unlikely. He reflects on the prosecutorial stance and the families' desire for justice, indicating that the decision to offer the plea deal was both unexpected and shocking.

Financial and Logistical Considerations

Banfield introduces a critical angle regarding the financial burden of pursuing the death penalty in Idaho. She points out that executions are exceedingly expensive, often costing millions of dollars due to the extensive appellate work required. She states:

"It's millions and millions upon millions of dollars to execute someone."

This financial strain, coupled with Idaho's small population and limited tax base, likely influenced the prosecution’s decision to settle for a life sentence without the death penalty.

[10:19] Brian Entin agrees, adding that the trial itself would have been a costly endeavor, further burdening the state. He mentions that the prosecution presented several reasons to the families, including the risks of a trial (such as a mistrial) and the perpetual nature of death penalty cases, which can drag on for decades.

Psychological and Social Implications

Banfield discusses the psychological impact on both the families and Kohberger. She emphasizes that the plea deal, while avoiding a potentially protracted trial, leaves Kohberger with a lifetime in prison without hope for parole, effectively ending any possibility of notoriety or future appeals. She reflects on the mental toll this decision takes on all parties involved.

[12:30] Brian Entin adds that the families may feel duplication or betrayal, having invested years into the pursuit of justice under the assumption of a trial outcome. The abrupt nature of the plea deal undermines their expectations and perceived path to closure.

Prosecutorial and Judicial Perspectives

The conversation shifts to the prosecutors' and judge's motivations. Banfield speculates that prosecutors might have opted for the plea deal to avoid the high costs and public scrutiny of a lengthy trial. She suggests a possible silent collaboration between the judge and prosecutors to expedite the case resolution, especially considering the judge’s potential interest in retirement and the overall strain the case has placed on the local justice system.

[21:48] Brian Entin supports this viewpoint, noting the prosecutors' exhaustion and frustration with the case's ongoing demands. He posits that the prosecutors and judge likely saw the plea deal as the most practical solution to finalize the case without further taxing the court and community resources.

Public and Community Reaction

Banfield touches upon the public's anger and disappointment, particularly among those directly affected by the crimes. She acknowledges that while some families may find solace in avoiding a drawn-out trial, others, like the Gonzalez family, remain profoundly dissatisfied. The introduction of the plea deal just weeks before the trial has left many feeling:

"Blindsided, unheard, and unsupported."

She reads a heartfelt statement from the Gonzalez family, emphasizing their frustration and desire for accountability over what they perceive as the system protecting Kohberger's future.

Ethical and Moral Considerations

The dialogue explores the ethical dilemmas surrounding plea deals in high-profile cases. Banfield and Entin grapple with the notion that while life imprisonment without parole ensures Kohberger's removal from society, it does not provide the ultimate justice that some families sought through the death penalty or a trial victory.

[28:27] Brian Entin shares his emotional perspective, feeling a sense of being duped by the prosecutorial shift, especially given his longstanding coverage and belief in Kohberger's guilt. He expresses concern that the plea deal undermines the families' pursuit of justice and leaves lingering doubts.

Conclusion and Reflections

In closing, Banfield reflects on the complexities of the justice system, recognizing that while the plea deal may resolve certain logistical and financial issues, it leaves behind a trail of emotions and unmet expectations. She underscores the importance of upholding legal standards and ensuring fairness, even in the face of public outcry and emotional appeals.

Brian Entin echoes these sentiments, contemplating the long-term implications for the families and the community. He questions whether the plea deal serves justice or simply expedites the end of the case at a significant emotional cost.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• [04:30] Ashleigh Banfield:
  "Ann Taylor lost that opportunity to mount the defense that someone else did it to hopefully come up with a grain of, you know, reasonable doubt for a jury."

• [09:30] Brian Entin:
  "You and I have been covering this together since the very beginning. And truthfully, I mean, you know how many people have asked me, do you think there's gonna be a plea deal? And I told them no."

• [10:19] Ashleigh Banfield:
  "It's millions and millions upon millions of dollars to execute someone. It is millions upon millions, upwards of $10 million to kill someone, have a state sanctioned execution."

• [12:30] Brian Entin:
  "To the Gonzalez family, I mean, they wanted the death penalty. To them, if there's a death penalty case, this is it."

• [17:08] Ashleigh Banfield:
  "I often said if someone did that to my family members, no matter what I think about the death penalty, the morals or the justice of it."

• [28:27] Brian Entin:
  "I feel like I'm doing the right thing for them long term. And maybe one day they'll realize it."

---

This episode of Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield provides an in-depth analysis of the unexpected plea deal in the Brian Kohberger case, exploring the multifaceted impacts on the justice system, the victims' families, and the broader community. Through candid discussions with guest Brian Entin, Banfield sheds light on the emotional and ethical complexities inherent in high-stakes criminal cases.

Transcript

[Ashley Banfield]

Foreign. Hey, everyone, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is drop dead Serious. And I have never been more serious. I am absolutely gobsmacked by what just came out of Idaho. I know that you're probably tuning in because you've heard the news that the prosecutors have offered Brian Coburger life in prison with no opportunity for parole and no opportunity to ever appeal that decision in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table. And Bryan Coburger has accepted it. And it will not be inked on paper till Wednesday. And once it's inked on paper, there'll be about four weeks, maybe a little less, maybe three and a half weeks, until there'll be a sentencing where the family members of the victims, and don't forget the surviving roommates, if they so choose, will be able to give victims impact statements, stand in court, say their piece with limitations. But I did not see it coming because we're so close to trial. We're. We're only, you know, four weeks away from trial. But it is entirely possible that Anne Taylor, who is the public defender who's been vehemently defending Brian Coburger for two and a half years, it is entirely possible she just ran out of arrows last week. A big decision came down and her quiver got kind of half emptied when the judge said, no, you may not mount an alternative perpetrator theory and point to two, three or four other people with some ideas on who did what, but those are the killers. You may not. Your evidence sucks. And what you're going to do is you're going to put that evidence up there and it's terrible. And yet the Internet will go bananas and those people's lives will be ruined. So it's. If you had good evidence, we would have to do that, and those people would have to go through that. But you have terrible. These are just. These are just fantasies. It's my word. And so Ann Taylor lost that opportunity to mount the defense that someone else did it to hopefully come up with a grain of, you know, reasonable doubt for a jury. And without that, she might have looked at her client and said, we can't win this. I can't win this. And they're offering. I recommend you take it, because I can't win. I cannot win your case. You will go to the death chamber eventually, where I am hoping for solace for this family. Well, these families, I should say, they're all one family now, but these four families and the victims who survived in that house, I hope for them that they will realize that this is a Hobson's choice, and it is a devil's bargain. I get it. And it is not the justice that they wanted, but if they'd gone through a trial and if the jury had chosen guilty, there's a second phase, and that's the death penalty phase. And even though each juror has to be death qualified to sit on that jury, and not everybody can do it, not every juror who comes through voir dire can be okay with, you know, voting yes, I'd like him dead. You have to death qualify each juror. Even with a death qualified jury, they don't always choose death. They might have convicted the guy, but they don't always choose death. And so these families might have gotten that result. And that would have been wholly unsatisfying because not only would Brian Kohberger go to prison for life, no parole, likely, but he'd be able to appeal it, and he'd be able to come back to court multiple times, and these families would have to go through it. With this result, there is no appeal. It is over. In 30 days or so, it is over. This guy is gone. He was. He will never see the light of day again. He will go out of a prison wearing a toe tag in a pine box. He will never walk out of prison, and he will not bring you back to court to argue it. So I. I hope that that is one solace for this family. But I do want to say this. There are a lot of angry people right now. And I get it. If you're watching right now and you're one of them, I am with you. I feel angry. I'm sad, I'm angry. I'm all the feels. However, the people of Idaho are not as numerous as the people of New York and Los Angeles and Texas, et cetera. It's a small population in Idaho, and this jurisprudential process is on their backs. They're paying for it. You and I are not paying for it. If you don't live in Idaho, this is a state process. They are paying for it. And it is millions and millions upon millions of dollars to execute someone. It. I've seen cases that have gone to 10 million. $10 million to execute someone. Hundreds of thousands, maybe up to a million, just to house them for life and give them three squares a day. So the people of Idaho already have a Chad Daybell on their hands. They've got an execution that just went through, right? And they're going to have to pay for all of those appeals. They're gonna have to pay for a mandatory one. And all the ones after that that Chad chooses, they'd have to do it again with Bryan Kohberger. So you're talking tens of millions, potentially, between these two guys in the last five years. You know, on the backs of the good people of Idaho. Justice doesn't always feel great. This is just me talking. I've been through this a lot, right? I've been through it hundreds upon hundreds of times. And I recognize that for some, they got justice. It just wasn't the justice they wanted. It wasn't the justice that made them feel good. And so this is one of those situations where for many of the victim's family members and the victims, you know, who were in the house, who survived, it will be painful and not painful for the Gonzalez family. They won't sleep tonight. They may not sleep for the month. They probably won't sleep till the holidays, and they will never sleep properly again. And I don't know that they have had a good night's sleep since two and a half years ago. The. The Mogans usually in lockstep with the Gonzalez's because Maddie and Kaylee were best friends and they saw each other and they knew each other. Zana Kernodle's family, TMZ had a report today that they've spoken with an aunt who was devastated, so angry that they. They did not want a deal. Ethan Chapin's family, they are a lot more Zen about this, at least. The last time I spoke with Ethan's mom, her whole opinion of this was, nothing will bring my child back to me. So a lot of this doesn't matter. It's academic. Whatever happens, happens. But it's not gonna. It's not gonna give me what I want because I only want one thing, and it's not available. So there are two parties here, and neither one like. And when I say two parties, there are two parties of those who are affected most by this, there are the victims who survived in the house, there are the Chapins, okay? Then there are the other three dead children's families. And neither one's going to be happy if it's death penalty or if it's a deal, right? If it's a trial or if it's a deal. So ultimately the decision comes to the prosecutors and then the people of Idaho and what's best for them and what's best for the justice system and what's best for the shot that they're going to have on getting that guy off the streets forever and ever. Amen. So those are just my thoughts. But, you know, there's one guy who I have turned to every moment that there's been a development. And it's usually before I talk to you, it's on the phone, I call Brian Enten and we talk about all these developments. And Brian was the first person to break this. He broke that there was this deal and he has the information, the letters that were sent out to the families, the conversations that they had over the weekend, they did consult the families. The families knew all of this before you. And I did, mark my word. Not that they were happy, but they did know. They were consulted. They were part of the process at least. And so I, you know, I called Brian, I said, brian, you got to jump on the podcast with me. I got to talk to you about this because. Because, holy shit, Brian. I don't even know what to say.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, I mean, you and I have been covering this together since the very beginning. And truthfully, I mean, you know how many people have asked me, do you think there's gonna be a plea deal? And I told them no. I mean, don't you get it all the time? And I just, I have 100% said, there is no way. The families want. Many of the family members want death. The prosecution seems to have this slam dunk case. And it wasn't until a couple of days ago that I started to hear these rumblings and I was almost like in disbelief thinking, like, no, this can't be. No, no, no. And just over the weekend, it just built and built and built to today where I'm like, oh, my God, this is actually. This is actually going to happen.

[Ashley Banfield]

So the only thing I can think of, because I agree this was a slam dunk this, this case. And I don't say that all the time, but it is really, really expensive to kill people. It is millions upon millions, upwards of $10 million to kill someone, have a state sanctioned execution. Just the amount of appellate work that goes into killing someone is backbreaking for the people of Idaho. That is not a very populated state that. That tax base. It would be backbreaking to deal with Chad Daybell and now the potential of Bryan Kohberger. So I could see them saying, we can't afford this. We really can't afford this.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, I mean, it was. The trial was also going to be expensive. I mean, they were doing it in a whole different city, far away from where the murders happened. There are people. I was going. I had a chance to look at the specific reasons that the prosecution gave to the families about why they were doing this. And there was, like, five or six reasons. And among them were that, you know, there's always risk with trial. There could have been a mistrial. They may have to go through all of this again. The fact that there are people on death row in Idaho for 30 and 40 years and that you will have to live the rest of your life dealing with appeals and going back to court and the media coverage, and this will never end. They brought up. I thought this was so interesting. They told the families about the conspiracy theorists out there and people who are pro Bryan Kohberger, and how if there was a trial and even if he got guilty, those people would forever be able to say, no, he actually didn't do it. Whereas if he pled guilty, they said that would actually put an end to all of that, Which I thought that was interesting, that that was one of the reasons they gave the families. And, you know, I don't know about that.

[Ashley Banfield]

I don't know about that, because they're not going away. They're gonna see that Bryan Coburger's sitting in a jail cell, and I want him out walking. And I'll tell you why I don't believe that Chris Watts killed Shanann Watts and their children. And there is a psychotic group of people on the Internet that will not leave Shanann's family alone. They still. Still terrorize them. And they have not been left alone for almost the better part of a decade.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. No, I agree with you. Those people aren't going anywhere. And we don't know yet. As part of this, will Bryan Kohlberg. And this is something the families want to know. Will he have to, like, confess, actually confess to the murders and give details and maybe even say where the knife is and all of that?

[Ashley Banfield]

I don't know about that, but, yes, he will have to confess. Yes, 100%. You do not get to get. You don't get to get away with murder completely. You will have to say, I did it. He will have to give details. I don't know how many, but he will have to say what he did to whom. Absolutely.

[Brian Enten]

Okay. Well, I think that that will help some of these family members, but I think at the end of the day, to them, justice felt like a trial. That's what has been built up for so long to them. And when it comes to the Gonzalez family, I mean, they wanted the death penalty. To them, if there's a death penalty case, this is it.

[Ashley Banfield]

They wore the T shirts. They wore the T shirts. They were so unified in that. And you tell me, Brian, I always felt that Steve and Christy Gonzalez were very aligned with Matty Mogan's family because those kids were, were best friends. Maddie and Kaylee were best friends. They died in the same bed. And I thought that the Gonzalez's and the Mogans were in lockstep with their thoughts about the death penalty for Bryan Coburger if guilty.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And I think they were to a certain extent. And I haven't talked to all of the family members, so I don't want to say for sure what people. Obviously the Gonzalez is wanted death. The others, they may have gone back and forth. They may have thought about, gosh, do I really want to do this for three months? And maybe what if there is a mistrial or whatever and we have to do it again? And I don't know, when it came down to it, maybe there was a bit of relief with some of these family members. But for the Gonzalez's and at least some of them, I know that they're extremely disappointed. And the way one of the family members put it to me was. And this really like hit me in a weird way it made sense. You know, they have worked for years through therapy to get control back of their lives and to feel like they're in control. And they felt like when they were told, we are going to offer this deal to Kohberger and he gets to make the decision, he gets to decide whether he goes to trial or whether he serves life, something about him getting that power really, really, really bothers some of these family members.

[Ashley Banfield]

I hope that. I hope that they get really good help to process that. Because yes, that is a choice. It is a terrible choice. It is a Hobson's choice. You are literally going to be locked in a box and forgotten forever and you will leave that box with a toe tag. Right? They will put a toe. They will put a tag on your dead body and you will get out. You are across the country from your family, so you will not have them visit you regularly. It's either that or you can go to court over and over again and eventually be shot to death in a shooting chamber. So I hope that the families understand that's not a choice any of us ever wants to make. And yes, I get it. It's a choice. It is an awful choice.

[Brian Enten]

It is. Yeah. Sorry. I'm still like, I'm just, I'm still honestly in shock, Ashley. I really am. Like, I. I'm almost like speechless to the whole thing.

[Ashley Banfield]

I mean, well, I was holding back tears earlier for a lot of reasons. I think that, you know, these families have been through absolute hell. None of us will ever know what it's like to walk in their shoes. None of us will ever know. And unfortunately, someone watching right now may end up in the same boat because there are murder victims of the future, and we will have murder victims, families of the future who don't believe they're in that club right now either. They're not. They will be. And it is. It is a horrendous new normal that you have to develop. You've got to cope. You've got to get through. You've got to plot a new direction in life. And I just. My heart breaks for them because nothing feels right. Right. Nothing is ever going to feel right. They don't have their children. Nothing will ever feel right. And they will never get closure. Even if they had a trial, they would not get closure. Sometimes I think maybe a trial would have been worse because now you have to know these things happened or you've got to envision the awfulness of it. And they won't have to do that, perhaps with the way this is shaking out.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. But they have to live. And, you know, people have very strong beliefs about the death penalty, but they wanted the death penalty and they have to. And granted, it may have taken 30 or 40 years if he was convicted and convicted and sentenced to death, but I think for them, knowing that he's. They wanted him dead, I mean, they don't want to exist on this earth knowing that the man who killed their kid is alive somewhere that's within them now. You know what I mean?

[Ashley Banfield]

Oh, totally. I get it. I would, too. I could pull the lever myself. I often said if someone did that to my family members, no matter what I think about the death penalty, the morals or the justice of it.

[Brian Enten]

And how do you know that he's not one day from jail in five years gonna write a letter? I actually didn't do it. This is all. I just had to plead or he tries to write some book or has someone else write a book.

[Ashley Banfield]

I mean, you can't profit from your crimes. No, you can't do that. He can't.

[Brian Enten]

If you do an interview, whatever. I mean, the guy is still alive at the end of the day.

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

And I think that bothers some of them.

[Ashley Banfield]

So they. They. That's a. Another false premise that I would. I. I don't want to live on the same earth that he does, because he will. He would still be alive for another 20 years if he so chose. That's his choice too, right. To continue the appellate process. He gets a mandatory. He gets even. Timothy McVeigh could not have an instant death. He had to go through his mandatory appeal. And then as soon as his mandatory appeal was over, he said, I don't want the rest of the appeals, just take me to the death chamber. And he went very, very quickly. But Brian Coburger could traumatize everybody for 20 or 30 years like you said. So the Gonzalez's may not be alive at the time the execution happened. They might not get that resolution that they wanted.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, that's a good point. And the other thing too is, and this was mentioned in the points that I was telling you about that the families were told about from the prosecutors that, you know, the surviving roommates, I mean that they were going to have to test their victims too. I mean you've got the victims family members, but then you've also got the surviving victims. And they were, I'm sure they didn't want to have to go through that and go be in front of everyone, guaranteed, and then also be dragged through the mud by the defense just for probably just being drunk college kids. But still that was going to be humiliating.

[Ashley Banfield]

My heart has broken for those girls from the jump because again, the evil piece of the Internet has decided that there's some conspiracy about them and they've treated them like co conspirators in some way. And the trial would have been hell because it's hard getting up on the stand no matter what this, the eyes of the world are on you and you've got the crazy people already attacking you. So I think that those girls absolutely were part of this process. It was not just the family members of the four victims. Those two girls were part of this process too. Nobody gets the iron fisted right to decide. Ultimately the prosecutors decide. They take into account how everybody feels, or so they say. Right. They got the hearing, they got the notice, they got the conversation. They may have fought tooth and nail, but ultimately prosecutors decide.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, right. And that's something I think that some of these families are grappling with. And I think they knew that. I just think there was never an indication until the last couple of days that this was even a remote possibility. And I think, you know, if they had had that feeling earlier on, they would have been able to process it more. But for it to come this late in the game, I think that's, that's a tough, that's a tough blow for them.

[Ashley Banfield]

You know what happens, it's such a strange concept for a lot of people, but adversarial parties in a courtroom are adversarial when they litigate, then they walk out the courtroom doors and often have lunch. Oftentimes there's a camaraderie and a friendship. These are small towns, these are small jurisdictions. They all know each other. They talk. They negotiate plea deals between themselves all the time for drunk driving or whatever else it might be. It is entirely possible that they have been in conversations all off the record. But just what if. What if I floated a hypothetical here and there. It's entirely possible that there were some of these conversations going on for. For many months, right? Or many weeks. Many months, maybe even two years. And ultimately, I think when Ann Co. Burger learned her alternative perpetrator theory was dead in the water, she may have looked at Brian Coburger and said, I can't win this. There's literally nothing I can do at this point. I can throw a few pieces of spaghetti, but they are all going to fall off the fridge. Now, I think we should maybe dabble in the idea that if I said to the prosecutors, if you offered one, we would probably take one, that that could have happened because, again, these adversarial parties know each other on the outside, and they're not enemies on the outside.

[Brian Enten]

Do you want to know what I really think? And I'm going to take off my, you know, just reporter hat for a second and tell you what I think based on going to all these hearings and just covering this. I don't think any of them, when it comes to the judge, the defense, or the prosecutors wanted a trial. I really don't. This has been a pain in their ass since the beginning. They had to move it. Everyone has seemed annoyed by the whole thing, which has bothered me and the families. The University of Idaho didn't even want it, like, acknowledged that this happened. They tore down the house early on. Nobody has wanted to deal with this. I feel like. And I feel like the prosecutor the same thing. And I think the judge and I think there was. I think there was a secret collaboration where the judge was like, let's get a deal done. You guys talk to each other, figure out what it's gonna take. And then they went. And this is just what I think. I don't know this to be true, but based on the timeline that I know about, I think that then they went to the families after they already knew what Kohberger would accept. And I think that these families, some of them are probably relieved. The Gonzalez's are unhappy, but they're gonna be the ones left to deal with, dealing with this. And I think the prosecutors, I don't think they wanted to go to Boise for three months. I don't think Bill Thompson, he's at the end of his career, he doesn't come across like the most aggressive guy in the world. I mean, if it were me, I would want to see this thing through to the end. I would think that this is the worst case to ever happen in Idaho. And this is a reflection on me and my career, and I'm taking this thing until the end.

[Ashley Banfield]

It's possible. You're absolutely right. It's entirely possible. The other side of the coin is that there's no guarantee your jury is going to give you death penalty. So you may come out at the end, after all the pain and suffering and money, you may come out with a life, no parole anyway. And then he's got an appellate choice right now. He can appeal. So this is, again, it's another Hobson's choice where you would get a guarantee that he is never going to see the light of day. We are not going to spend any more money, time, treasure, pain, suffering victims coming to testify. A lot of pain for everybody involved in that trial. Pain, pain, pain every day for four months of pain for the community. Pain. So it is entirely possible that it is a more altruistic choice if those prosecutors were saying amongst themselves and even the defense with the judge, hey, let's cabal this and let's decide to do the best, the best choice for all of us, which is just move it along. I'm not. I want to be a little more Pollyanna than that. And I do want to believe that this is a. This is a halfway point to better than just guilty. Better than just guilty. And life, no parole. This is better than that because we're life, no parole and the guy shuts up and gets locked away and you never, ever hear from him again. And he has no other choice. He has no other appeal. You could have gotten Jodi Arias. Jodi Arias to me was 100% ironclad death penalty. And in Arizona, Republican Arizona, they could not get to death. They couldn't get to death. So Jody had all her appeals and she put everybody through the goddamn ringer. And she also, like, murdered everybody's careers around her. The prosecutor lost his career, the defense attorney lost his career. So, you know, there's a scorched earth aspect to going ahead with it, thinking you're going to get the ultimate justice Jody, they did not vote death and everybody had to suffer through the ramifications of it. So in a way, I'm glad that it won't be a Jodi Arias.

[Brian Enten]

Maybe I'm just emotional about it right now and I think there may be. There's some truth and maybe the prosecutor knows, maybe Bill Thompson knows. I know these people are going to be mad at me in the moment, but in my heart I feel like I'm doing the right thing for them long term. And maybe one day they'll realize it. Maybe he's not thinking that, but I have just also had this feeling since almost the beginning that no one in Idaho wanted to really deal with this tearing down of the house, university, annoyed with us. Nobody wanted us in the town anymore. Stop ruining our image. Just, you know, oh, God, where are you gonna park? There's so much media with the trial, you know what I mean? Kind of like I have just felt that it's never been like, we're going to the end, we're going to the end with this and we're getting justice for these kids. It's always just felt a little bit like an annoyance. The first judge, judge didn't really want to deal with it. He was excited to get it off his plate and retire. You know what I mean?

[Ashley Banfield]

Yeah. I think the retirement part is a very wise observation because that takes away from the notion that someone is going to work his or her ass up off to show that their career is going places. You know, they will work so hard. This is a guy who's saying, wait, I thought I was going to retire. I've got three, four, five more years of this. And what about the, you know, what happens when there's an appeal? I got to turn over the books and, you know, coach the next prosecutors through this. Defense attorneys get to say goodbye. They get appellate attorneys for that. Right. The same defense attorney doesn't go and do the appellate cases. So they do get a break. But I do want to say that generally, people get into this business as prosecutors or defense attorneys because they really do love the law. They really, really do love it. How do you defend those people if you don't love the law? Right. And so, like the Ann Taylors of the world, they love the Constitution, they love what America offers. Everyone, not just some. Not just some defendants who look more guilty than the. Everybody right across the board gets the same level of defense in this country. That is just a beautiful thing to say as we approach July 4th. Right. It is a beautiful thing to say that Our country doesn't pick and choose based on your hair color, your religion, your sex, your attitude. We don't pick and choose who gets a good defense. We say everyone gets it. And if you're the person who goes into the business of defense, being a defense attorney and a public defender, you love it. You love the law, you love justice, and you love doing your part to guarantee everyone gets justice. Even if you hate that guy, you do believe it's important to preserve the system that we have because some of those guys actually aren't guilty. Yeah, there's my soapbox. I hope that.

[Brian Enten]

No, no. And listen again, I'm in a weird moment right now, like, where it's kind of raw for me and you get so close to these people in the case. And so maybe some of what I'm saying is just a little, I don't know, crazy at the moment. But Ann Taylor, you bring her up. I mean, she said in court one day, and I don't have the exact quote, but maybe you remember, she was like, I know this man didn't do this or something like that. Like, she just had this personal, like, way where she kept. I don't know. And just for her to give in too, the whole thing, I just, again, I was totally shocked by it.

[Ashley Banfield]

Robert Shapiro, he has never, ever said, you know, ugh, I got the guy off. But I don't believe O.J. is innocent. He's never said it. He has maintained, he has maintained the job that he did all the way along. And I think at this point, it's really hard when you're, when you're that person and if you're working with that guy and he is good at psychological manipulation and you're doing the work for him to save his life, I think you put your all into it. I don't think you go in half assed. And I don't think you put on one face for court and another face for dinner parties. I think you go in and you say, this is my job. I'm committed to it. I'm committed to justice. I can see a path to innocence. Maybe she can see a path to innocence. Maybe there is one. I beat myself up every day about a police officer in Rhode island who I totally believed should be put away and we should have swallowed the key. He was so vile in his lying and his cheating and his awfulness. And I believed he killed his mistress. Right. And were it not for a guy who walked in off the street, a carpenter who came in, like, I don't know, I Want to say half a decade later and said, I can't live with myself anymore. I'm the guy who did it. And it wasn't just a crazy. Because people do that. Crazy people come in off the street and say, I did it. JonBenet. Lots of people have admitted to doing JonBenet, and they didn't. But this guy actually knew something that had never been made public, and he was the killer. And I walked away from that so much better, because I realized how wrong I could be if I feel like something's a slam. Slam. Duncan is like, this is impossible. There's no way this guy didn't do it. There is always a way. It's only reasonable doubt. It's not beyond shadow of a doubt. It's reasonable doubt. There's always a little chasm that you gotta jump over. But beyond reasonable doubt, you've gotta just cross your fingers and hope to hell you didn't screw some innocent guy. And it can be done. You can screw innocent people even when they look so guilty.

[Brian Enten]

I get. Legally, this may make sense. Sense. And in the end, maybe this will be better for the families. Maybe. And they won't have to suffer through another trial or through appeals. But just in this moment, I can't help but feel a little duped. Not only by the prosecutors who just fought so hard that they were gonna do the death penalty and everything we've heard over and over, this monster of a man. And from the defense, too. She was so passionate. He didn't do it. I. I believe Brian Coburger didn't do it. And she's fought so hard, and it's like, for them, I don't know, I just. I didn't. I didn't see it coming. I really didn't.

[Ashley Banfield]

You know, it's funny. I didn't see it coming today. I did see it coming a few months ago. I thought, still possible. Still possible. Things are running out. Time is running out. Options running out. She might be negotiating with Bryan Coburger. He might be the stick in the mud.

[Brian Enten]

It's his choice.

[Ashley Banfield]

It is his choice. It is not Ann Taylor's choice. It is his choice. But this close to trial, it ain't like I haven't seen it before. I have. When you get close to the wire and your defense attorney looks at you and says, I've done everything, and I have not been granted this, and I have not been granted that, and without the alternative perpetrators, I don't think I can do this for you. I literally think you are going to die. So now you need to tell me what to do. But I think you are going to die if I don't do this. You choose. I think that's what brought it to this time. Chris Watts. I mean, he did it right after the killings. I think it was only two months after the killings. He threw in the towel and decided. But the families were on board because they liked the idea that a guy in his, I think, late 20s, early 30s, whatever it was, was gonna be 60 years in a box. You know, 60 years in a box with no opportunity to talk ever again. So it's entirely possible that this scenario played out, and Ann looked at him and said, your move, buddy.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, you're right. And maybe she's been trying to push him to do this for a while, and he finally gave. I don't know.

[Ashley Banfield]

Or maybe he finally said to her, anton, maybe he finally said, and I did it, and I did it. Now what's she gonna do? Okay, you'd never want to hear that if you're a defense attorney. You sure as hell can't put him on the stand now because that's the morning perjury. But it is. I don't know. It's impossible that he had to come to Jesus moment because he might be able to hear the cacophony of. Of discussion about the. The. The shooting chamber. Right? They're building it for him, you know, like that. That's like building the gallows outside of the old west jail cell. You can see where you're about to get hanged. Like, there's a. There's a psychology to that. Who knows? Maybe he just said, I. I can't. I can't. I can't be shot to death. I can't. I don't know. It's weird. I'm glad I'm never going to be in those shoes. Let me read this statement from the Gonzalez family. They sent this out on social media. It's true. We are beyond furious at the state of Idaho. They have failed us. Please give us some time. This was very unexpected. We appreciate all your love and support. And there's a second post from the Gonzalez family. It's about their youngest daughter, Aubrey. And this is how the post reads. Aubrey was unable to attend the meeting with prosecutors to beg for additional concessions to guarantee certainty in this case. We are all in awe of how she was able to perfectly articulate the following, especially at only 18 years old. We are so proud of her. And this is how Aubrey's words go. Hello, my name is Aubrey Gonzalez, and I am the youngest member of the Gonzalez family. Though I am unable to be there in person, I refuse to stay silent about a situation that should never have required this kind of gathering in the first place. What the families of Ethan, Kaylee, Maddie and Zanna have endured over the past two years and a half is beyond comprehension. From the constant delays to the relocation of the proceedings making it harder for loved ones to attend, the justice system has placed heavy burdens on those already carrying unimaginable grief. Through it all, we have tried to hold on to hope. We believed in the process, we've had faith in the system. But at this point, it is impossible not to acknowledge the truth. The system has failed these four innocent victims and their families. These are not just names or headlines. Ethan Chapin, Kayleigh Gonsalves, Madison Mogan and Zanna Kernodle were beautiful human beings who touched countless lives. They are not just, quote the Idaho four. They were sons, daughters, siblings and friends. Real people with real dreams. They deserve to be remembered for who they were in life. Not only for the tragedy of their deaths, but before that can truly happen. They deserve justice, nothing less. The introduction of this plea deal just weeks before the scheduled trial is both shocking and cruel. Had this proposal come a year and a half ago, the families could have had time to process and discuss and potentially come to terms with the idea of a life sentence. However difficult that may be, we could have had the time to understand it, to prepare for it emotionally, and perhaps even to find some degree of peace. But now, with mere weeks left, we are being asked to absorb and respond to life altering decisions with no room to breathe. Bryan Kohberger facing a life in prison means he would still get to speak, form relationships and engage with the world. Meanwhile, our loved ones have been silenced forever. That really stings more deeply when it feels like the system is protecting his future more than honoring the victim's pasts. The justice system was created to serve and protect, not to re traumatize grieving families. And yet, time and time again, we find ourselves blindsided, unheard and unsupported. This last minute plea deal feels less like an act of justice and more like an afterthought. We are not asking for vengeance. We are asking for accountability. We are asking for dignity for our loved ones. And we are asking, pleading for a justice system that truly lives up to its name. Oh my God, what a statement. It's heartbreaking, like I just want to cry.