Lori Vallow Trial Day 6 & 7 | Loin to Loin with Chad Daybell, Unhinged Texts, & Damning GPS Data

Summary

Podcast Summary: Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield Episode: Lori Vallow Trial Day 6 & 7 | Loin to Loin with Chad Daybell, Unhinged Texts, & Damning GPS Data
Release Date: April 17, 2025

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Introduction and Background

In this gripping episode of Drop Dead Serious With Ashleigh Banfield, host Ashleigh Banfield delves into the intense proceedings of the Lori Vallow Daybell trial in Arizona. As the trial approaches its final stages, Banfield provides a comprehensive overview of Days 6 and 7, highlighting critical evidence and courtroom dynamics that shed light on the complexities of the case.

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Day 6 of the Trial: Cross-Examination of Detectives

Detective Testimonies:

• Detective Cassandra Inclin and Detective Ariel Werther played pivotal roles during Day 6. Ashleigh notes Lori Vallow's attempts to derail the cross-examination with irrelevant questions, nearly causing the gallery to lose interest.

  [01:44] Detective Cassandra Inclin: "Lori Valo's behavior stood out to you?"
  [01:44] Detective Ariel Werther: "It did."

Behavioral Observations:

• Detectives highlighted Lori's odd demeanor following her husband's murder, suggesting inconsistencies in her account.

  [01:47] Detective Ariel Werther: "Her demeanor seemed odd given what was going on at the house that day."

GPS Data Contradictions:

• A significant revelation came from Detective Werther, who presented GPS data from Lori's phone. This data indicated that Lori was not at the crime scene when the shooting occurred, directly challenging her self-portrayal.

  [03:50] Detective Nathan Duncan: "We have video of her at various places... Lori's device was not even at the house when the shooting supposedly happened."

Attempted Misdirection:

• Lori attempted to shift focus to unrelated matters, questioning the relevance of certain police report details.

  [07:06] Judge: "Sustained."
  [07:09] Lori Vallow Daybell: "So you mentioned in your report that on July 10th there was a scheduled phone date with Nancy Johan. Is that correct?"

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Day 7 of the Trial: Crime Scene Analysis and Digital Evidence

Crime Scene Discrepancies:

• Detective Nathan Duncan provided a detailed account of the crime scene, contradicting Lori's and her brother Alex's claims of self-defense.

  [05:54] Lori Vallow Daybell: "Then you also made a note of his interactions with women he was attempting to date. Is that correct?"
  [06:01] Detective Nathan Duncan: "I Do remember that."

Autopsy and Physical Evidence:

• The autopsy photos of Charles Vallow were presented, revealing a bullet wound inconsistent with self-defense claims. Additionally, the absence of blood on the alleged weapon raised further suspicions.

  [05:54] Ashley Banfield: "There was a bullet hole in the floorboards that lined right up with Charles being shot while he was already down on the floor."

Digital Footprint Revelations:

• Emails and Texts: Prosecutors introduced emails sent from a fake account "[e-mail]," posing as Karen Walker, to Chad Daybell. These communications were interpreted as attempts by Lori to clandestinely contact Chad without his wife’s knowledge.

  [06:14] Detective Cassandra Inclin: "It's relevant to show what was going on in this right before this happened."

• Impersonation of Charles: Lori sent emails to Chad imitating her late husband, inviting him to co-author a book, further muddying the waters of her credibility.

  [06:14] Detectives Inclin & Duncan: "So does Lori's memory is faulty or Lori just flat out lied."

Coded Communications:

• Text messages between Lori and her brother Alex referred to their husband as "Ned," allegedly a name for a dark spirit. Additionally, messages to Chad Daybell used code names like "James and Elena," hinting at deeper, possibly sinister connections.

  [10:45] Ashley Banfield: "In the text messages between Laurie and her brother Alex, the siblings referred to Laurie's husband Charles as Ned."

Financial Motives:

• Lori's frustration over not being the beneficiary of Charles's $1 million life insurance policy surfaced through her texts to Chad, indicating potential financial motives.

  [16:51] Detective Cassandra Inclin: "Lori tells Chad she's not getting the life insurance."

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Lori's Self-Representation in Court

Taking the bold step to represent herself, Lori Vallow's courtroom strategies were both aggressive and unconventional.

Challenging Detective Expertise:

• Lori questioned Detective Duncan's understanding of the Book of Mormon, attempting to undermine his credibility. She highlighted his lack of detailed knowledge about the scriptures she referenced in her texts.

  [23:33] Lori Vallow Daybell: "Are you aware that there's 15 books in the Book of Mormon?"

Questioning Investigation Thoroughness:

• She scrutinized the thoroughness of the police investigation, pointing out perceived gaps, such as the limited number of family members interviewed.

  [21:22] Lori Vallow Daybell: "But you were not privy to any of that information as the case agent?"

Implications of Religious References:

• Lori's comparison of herself to Nephi, a prophet from the Book of Mormon, was used to suggest a divine command to act, which the prosecution countered as an order to kill.

  [19:09] Detective Cassandra Inclin: "And she texted her niece, Melanie Boudreau, warning her not to take a trip to Utah with her husband Brandon. 'It's a setup for both of us,' Laurie wrote."

Defensive Tactics:

• Throughout her self-representation, Lori employed defensive tactics aimed at portraying inconsistencies in the prosecution's case while attempting to cast doubt on the detectives' testimonies.

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Conclusion and Upcoming Court Proceedings

As Days 6 and 7 concluded, the prosecution declared they were out of witnesses and rested their case. However, Lori Vallow remained poised to present further defenses, hesitating between resting her case and taking the stand herself. Ashleigh Banfield anticipates upcoming closing arguments scheduled for April 21, 2025, hinting at potential last-minute maneuvers from Lori that could further complicate the trial's outcome.

[28:05] Ashleigh Banfield: "Next stop, closing arguments. As of this recording, those were slated to take place on Monday, April 21, 2025..."

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Notable Quotes:

• Detective Ariel Werther on GPS Data:

  [03:50] "Lori's device was not even at the house when the shooting supposedly happened."

• Lori Vallow on Nephi Reference:

  [25:13] "I will be like Nephi, I am told, and so will you."

• Detective Cassandra Inclin on Investigation Scope:

  [27:47] "You didn't ask any other member of my family?"

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Ashleigh Banfield masterfully dissects the courtroom theatrics and unveils the tangled web of evidence surrounding the Lori Vallow Daybell trial. For those following true crime narratives, this episode offers a compelling deep dive into legal strategies, digital footprints, and the quest for truth in a convoluted legal battle.

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Remember: The truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.

Transcript

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Foreign.

[Ashley Banfield]

Hey, everyone, I'm Ashley Banfield and this is Drop Dead Serious. We are heading into the final stretch of the Lori Valo Daybell trial in Arizona. Thank you, Jesus. And today provided us one more big reason that you should never, ever represent yourself in court, especially if you are charged with murder. I'm going to get to the colossal mess that Laurie made of the plan for closings in her case in just a minute. But here's a hint. For a woman who's been forced to do nothing but rest in her cell in Idaho for the last five years, she sure doesn't know how to rest a case. She made a mess of it. But by now, I'm not surprised at her judicial screw ups. I will get to that, like I said, in a hot minute. And as for taking the stand, I have news there, too, just ahead. But for the last two days, day six and day seven of her murder conspiracy trial in Arizona, we got some serious receipts, y'all, like videotape and texts and emails. But what might be the most upsetting evidence, other than the autopsy photos of Charles Valo, which no one can ever unsee, is Laurie's behavior that followed the moment that Charles Vallow hit the ground. Let's start with day six. Lori Valo resumed her cross examination of Detective Cassandra Inclin. That's one of the first officers to interact with Lori after Charles was killed. She's the detective that interviewed Lori and her daughter Tylee at the police station within hours of Charles dying.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Did Lori Valo's behavior stand out to you?

[Detective Ariel Werther]

It did.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Why?

[Detective Ariel Werther]

So based on what was going on, that we had a homicide. Her husband had been shot and killed. Her brother was the one who shot and killed her husband. It was inside her home. Her children were at least partially present to this event. Her demeanor seemed odd given what was going on at the house that day.

[Ashley Banfield]

In court, Lori, the lawyer, pressed Detective Inkland about what the detective thought of their interview that day and how she thought Laurie behaved. But Lori asked a ton of irrelevant questions and nearly put the gallery to sleep.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

You were asked about whether or not you were calm at the scene. Do you recall being asked that on cross?

[Detective Ariel Werther]

I believe so.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Had you just seen your husband get shot?

[Detective Ariel Werther]

No.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Inside your own home?

[Detective Ariel Werther]

No.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

By your brother?

[Detective Ariel Werther]

No.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

You were asked if the other officers at the scene were calm. You recall being asked that?

[Detective Ariel Werther]

I do.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Were you aware of any of them having just seen their significant others being shot?

[Detective Ariel Werther]

No.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

By a family member?

[Detective Ariel Werther]

No.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Inside their own home?

[Detective Ariel Werther]

No.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

With their children present?

[Detective Ariel Werther]

No.

[Ashley Banfield]

And then came Detective Ariel Werther from the Chandler Police Department. And what he brought to court was less about emotion and more about cold, hard data. According to Detective Werther, the story that Lori tells just doesn't add up. Laurie told police that she was there when her brother Alex Cox, shot Charles dead. But Detective Werther pulled the GPS data from her phone. And that data, my friends, that tells a very different story. That data shows that Lori's device was not even at the house when the shooting supposedly happened. So either Lori's memory is faulty or Lori just flat out lied.

[Detective Nathan Duncan]

We have video of her at various places. It led to the inescapable, an inescapable conclusion that either the shooting did not happen that close in time to the 911 call or that she wasn't there for the shooting. I could not see a third way of interpreting that data. The other things that I was trying to establish when I called her is where she had taken him to school. And to confirm that we hadn't misunderstood about the Burger King event happening after the shooting. Because if we hadn't misunderstood and then learning where the school was, the school's approximately seven miles away from the house. So the idea that one could in 12 minutes go to a Burger King, get their order, drive seven miles one way, seven miles back, and arrive in that amount of time seemed very unlikely to me.

[Ashley Banfield]

But it gets worse for Laurie. Detective Werther show that Charles Vallow's phone was also on the move well before 911 was ever called. And guess what was moving right alongside it? Lori's phone and presumably Lori. According to Detective Werther, Lori took Charles's phone and then left the house, went to burger king at 7:54am where she was seen on surveillance in Charles's rental car, then stopped at Walgreens for a pair of flip flops at 8:16am that's also on surveillance. And all of this happened before her brother even called 911. That call was made at 8:36am More than three quarters of an hour after Charles was shot. That's a pretty tough act to follow. Right? But when Laurie got her shot at cross examining this detective, she tried to steer the jury into irrelevant territory, asking about calendar events on Charles's phone and asking about dates with other women that Charles had logged on his calendar. But the prosecution was having none of it and cut her off with objection after objection, and the judge agreed.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Then you also made a note of his interactions with women he was attempting to date. Is that correct?

[Detective Nathan Duncan]

I Do remember that.

[Ashley Banfield]

Okay.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Detective Werther, in your report on page 103, you indicate that Charles went to the airport to meet Florence Hughes and found that she never boarded. Is that correct?

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Relevance.

[Judge]

What's the relevance of that?

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

It's just in his report, your honor, and I was just going over it to see if.

[Judge]

Well, everything in a police report isn't necessary necessarily relevant. Well, how's it relevant to this case?

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

It's relevant to show what was going on in this right before this happened. This events happened within June and July.

[Judge]

All right? It's the objection. Sustained.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Did you learn who Florence Hughes was?

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

I'm going to object again to relevance.

[Judge]

Sustained.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

In your report, detective, you find evidence that Charles did in fact send someone $1000.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

I reject her relevance again.

[Judge]

Sustained.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

So you mentioned in your report that on July 10th there was a scheduled phone date with Nancy Johan. Is that correct?

[Detective Nathan Duncan]

I think I did indicate that in my report, yes.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Okay. And then on the next day, there was another date scheduled with a Jennifer Gilbert at 12:00.

[Detective Nathan Duncan]

That sounds correct.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

And then the next day, there was another date scheduled with a Juliet at 10am fence.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And obviously trying to smear the victim.

[Judge]

All right, the objection. Sustained.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Detective, did you find searches for these dates for my husband?

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Back to, if we can, sidebar.

[Judge]

Sustained.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

This is a different question.

[Judge]

Whether he went on dates or had dates scheduled is not relevant to this case.

[Ashley Banfield]

So now, day seven. Detective Nathan Duncan from the Chandler PD and the lead detective on the case. He took the jury deep into the crime scene and what he described did not match up with the self defense story that Laurie and her brother told the cops. There was a bullet hole in the floorboards that lined right up with Charles being shot while he was already down on the floor. That's not self defense, right? You down on the floor, the threat is over. You don't need the extra execution style shot. Right. And the baseball bat that Alex swore up and down Charles had grabbed to take a swing at him. No blood, no damage, nothing on that bat. It was actually lying on the opposite side of Charles's body from the left hand that he uses. And then came another volley from the cops over that massive delay in calling911. 47 minutes passed after Charles was shot, but before anybody called for help. And again, it wasn't even Laurie who called. And during that 47 minutes, somebody was thumbing through Charles's phone, reading messages from his brother in law, Adam, after Charles was dead. But what truly turned this case from tragic to chilling was what Laurie left Behind in her digital footprint, her icloud account revealed damning emails and text messages. One email in particular was from kkwalker75ahoo.com it was sent to Chad Daybell. For the record, KK Walker stands for Karen Walker, a fake name that Laurie used to create this email account. And here's how it reads. Dear brother Daybell, this is Karen from avow. I contacted you a couple of weeks ago to see if you would be willing to come speak to our youth here in Houston. End quote. Prosecutors said this was Lori's way of secretly asking Chad to come visit her without Chad's wife finding out. But Karen Walker wasn't the only character that Lori was impersonating. Prosecutors also showed the jury an email that Lori wrote to Chad pretending to be Charles, her own husband, and inviting Chad to come to Arizona to help Charles, quote, ghost write a book.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Did you learn from reviewing Charles Valo's cell phone extraction and iCloud accounts that Charles had found an email sent to Chad Dabel that was purportedly written by him?

[Witness]

Yes, I did.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Did that involve an email address KK Walker 75@ Yahoo?

[Witness]

Yes, it did.

[Ashley Banfield]

And in the text messages between Laurie and her brother Alex, the siblings referred to Laurie's husband Charles as Ned. That was a name they gave to what they claimed was a dark spirit that was possessing Charles. And then there was that cryptic message. Just two days before Charles is shot dead, Laurie writes to her brother Alex, quote, so the plot thickens. Call me when you can. End quote.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Do we see a message from Lori Valo to Alex Cox? So the plot thickens. Call me when you can.

[Witness]

Yes.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Does Lori Valo send her brother Alex Cox a message? Getting sleepy. So I'm going to need you to stay close to me the next couple days. Mel too. She can't go to Utah. They are planking, some kind of intervention, but want Mel out of the way. So I'm left alone. I need to come get the stuff at your house tomorrow and store it or secure it. Lots to do. Thank you for standing by me. It's all coming to a head this week. I will be like Nephi, I am told, and so will you. Were you aware from looking at Charles's phone and the messages between Charles and Adam that they were were talking about an intervention?

[Witness]

Yes.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

So on July 9th, Adam and Charles were discussing an intervention.

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Possibly recording Lori.

[Witness]

Yes.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And then what we see then at 9:50 at night is Lori telling her brother that they're planning an intervention.

[Witness]

Yes.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

So the same day that Adam and Lori Were. Or that Adam and Charles were talking. Lori is already letting her brother know there's going to be an intervention.

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And they're trying to get her separate and alone for this.

[Witness]

Correct.

[Ashley Banfield]

But nothing revealed Laurie's state of mind more than Chad's nauseating James and Elena story. It's a fictional story that he sent to Laurie where Chad and Laurie are soulmates from another time and place, destined to reunite and fulfill their spiritual mission. And in case it isn't obvious, the story of James and Elena ain't platonic. Messages between Chad and Laurie got downright dirty. Quote, cheek to cheek, loin to loin. Chad wrote. Let me just say that detective Duncan could barely get that quote out without laughing.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Were there many messages and between Lori Ballo and contact name Bubby or Chad Daybell?

[Witness]

Yes, there were.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And again, those are all part of that recovered as part of the search warrant on the lolli time at icloud account?

[Witness]

Yes.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

In these text messages, did Chad write a, I'll call it romantic story about Lori and himself that he texted and emailed to her?

[Witness]

He did.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Did he have other names for them?

[Witness]

I believe the names were James and Elena.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

One of the first mess or the first message in this exhibit 229 is from July 13th. So two days after Charles was shot and guilty.

[Witness]

Yes.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And do we see at this point Chad is asking Lori, how did Adam and Brandon find out?

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And Again, on the 13th at 9:51, we see Lori telling Chad, my mom because she was so mad she went off on Adam.

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And again, when we go back to Adam's testimony, did he indicate he learned Charles had died on the 13th?

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And that he got in a fight with his mom?

[Witness]

Yes.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

At that point, do we see then a message from Chad asking, did he have much to say in his defense?

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And Lori responds, he was very defensive and tried to justify everything, but my mom kicked him out and said she would never talk to him again. She's dramatic.

[Witness]

Yes.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Do we then see a switch over from talking about Lori's family to now Chad talking to Lori about being deeply, crazily, madly in love with Lily?

[Witness]

Yes.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And do we see again messages to and from Lori and Chad talking about sort of their love for each other?

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Do we see again a continuation of that story that Chad was writing to Lori Vallow?

[Witness]

You do.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And that continues through most of this till apparently Chad needed a shower.

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And again, we continue to see the affirmations of love?

[Witness]

Yes.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

The cheek to cheek and loin to loin.

[Witness]

Yes.

[Ashley Banfield]

And Then came the money talk. Obviously, Lori was furious to find out that she wasn't the beneficiary on Charles's $1 million life insurance policy. In one text to Chad Daybell, she played the guessing game, wondering who was destined to get Charles's life insurance money. Was it Brandon Boudreau, the man who married her niece, the man she's actually accused of trying to kill? Yes. Another trial is just weeks away. Follow the bouncing ball. Was it Kay Woodcock, Charles's sister? One thing that Laurie knew, Laurie wasn't getting anywhere near that money. Chad reassured Laurie that this was all part of a bigger plan, calling it a step in, quote, bringing down the Gadiantons. End quote. And that's a term from Mormon scripture referring to secret evil societies.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Do we see on July 18th at 12:18 Arizona time? So I talked to the insurance company. He changed it in March. So it was probably Ned before we got rid of him. They can't tell me who to tell me to whom, of course, but it's done. I'll still get the 4,000amonth from Social Security.

[Witness]

Yes.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

So on July 18, after she talks with Banner Life Insurance, Lori tells Chad she's not getting the life insurance.

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

When we get to July 18th. This one, though, is an earlier for the bubby one. We saw that it was a noon time message. Right?

[Witness]

Right.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And so we. We learned that Lori received a email indicating she was not the beneficiary. And later she had a phone conversation.

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Does this one appear to be sort of the earlier one? Because it references I just got the letter from the insurance company that I'm not the beneficiary. It's a spear through my heart. Who do you think he changed it to? Brandon or probably K. He left nothing for jj.

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Did that conversation go on? Wow, that's terrible. There's no way to find out.

[Witness]

I did.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And did Lori then tell Chad? I might be able to see when I get his computer on Sunday. I could check the email sent to the insurance company. It will show change of beneficiary. He must have done it recently.

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

So we had seen, in fact photos what appeared to be from a computer that were sent to Chad Daybell. Correct.

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Showing that beneficiary change.

[Witness]

Yes.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

So does that seem to match with again, what Laurie's telling Chad here about finding out who got that money? It does this Chad then say it will be interesting if he got. Got it. If it got changed after he had two bullets in his chest.

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And she goes on to Respond, I don't think it could have. You can't change it. After the death date, they would review that.

[Witness]

Correct.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

And then she goes on to say again, I'm thinking K as well. Or he says, I'm thinking K as well. She probably freaking out that you got those computers. I'm going to shower and give you a blessing. I'm eager to get home so we can talk. It will be okay, my love. You are wonderful.

[Witness]

Correct.

[Ashley Banfield]

And if you thought that was bad. Lori's text messages revealed that she compared herself to Nephi, a prophet from the Book of Mormon who, according to scripture, was commanded by God to kill. She texted Alex, quote, I will be like Nephi, I am told, and so will you, end quote. Detective Duncan told the jury that this was an order to kill. She also texted her niece, Melanie Boudreau, warning her not to take a trip to Utah with her husband Brandon. Quote, it's a setup for both of us, Laurie wrote, quote, everything is coming to a head. Laurie concluded. And finally, Laurie's cross examination of the lead detective in the murder of her husband. And Laurie came out swinging. She demanded to know why the baseball bat and the firearm weren't forensically tested. And she questioned why only some of her family members were interviewed, like her brother Adam, but not others. Actually, pretty good strategy.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

In all those text messages, we saw.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

A lot of people.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Did you interview our mother, Janice Cox?

[Witness]

I did not.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Did you read or watch her interview?

[Witness]

I have not.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Did you interview our sister, Summer Shiflett?

[Witness]

I did not.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Did you read or watch her interview?

[Witness]

No.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Did you interview our father, Barry Cox?

[Witness]

No.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Did you read or watch his interview?

[Witness]

No.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

So the only source that you have for this investigation of the shooter in your case is through our brother Adam, is that correct?

[Witness]

And all of the contacts mentioned through your iclouds? Yeah.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

But you didn't ask anybody who was mentioned in there or who was speaking in there what they meant by any of those text messages?

[Witness]

Well, neither. None of the people that you mentioned were present during this incident. So you're asking about the actual day of July 11? If I asked them about that day or about the text messages, about the text messages themselves would be consistent with the records.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

So the only person in our family, in our whole family, that you got information from was the estranged brother from our family who didn't know what was going on with everybody else.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Object to the form of the question. Argumentative.

[Judge]

Well, it's also compound. I'll sustain the objection.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Okay, so Adam, our estranged brother, is the only one that you got information from. Is that correct? Is this your normal protocol to just talk to one witness and not all the others?

[Witness]

No.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Why didn't you speak to any other member of my family?

[Witness]

A lot of members of the family have been spoken to.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

But you were not privy to any of that information as the case agent?

[Witness]

Well, I was. I was privy to the interviews that were conducted by other detectives.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

And you just testified to me that you didn't read or watch any of those interviews, is that correct?

[Witness]

I have been present during an interview or a phone call with Summer and been present during a phone call in this process, but I had never interviewed them.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

How many interviews has Summer had with the police departments?

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Objection. Speculation.

[Ashley Banfield]

Laurie also questioned Detective Nathan Duncan about his Book of Mormon knowledge and if he was aware that Alex Cox was a comedian, basically implying that perhaps Detective Duncan didn't understand the context of all these messages. Laurie insisted the text messages were just a bunch of jokes that Alex the comedian and Alex the Mormon was making.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

You had testified earlier about the story of Nephi, Is that correct?

[Witness]

Yes.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

And you said that you researched it. Is that correct? What research did you do?

[Witness]

All the very basic research I Googled. Googled? Who is Nephi? What does Nephi stand for? I've also, through this process over the last four or five years, have asked other members of the church just a simple question. Tell me about Nephi. And every single person I talked to tells me that same story that was told by Adam.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

So are you aware that there's 15 books in the Book of Mormon?

[Witness]

I am not.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Are you aware that four of those books are books of Nephi?

[Witness]

I'm not.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

That there's Nephi 1 first Nephi, second Nephi, third Nephi, fourth Nephi.

[Witness]

No, I'm not.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Okay. That there's many stories of Nephi, is that correct, or do you don't know?

[Witness]

I don't know.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

So the very first story is the.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Story that I would object to testifying.

[Judge]

It sounds. That's like. That's the way it was going. So please just ask questions.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

So you did not read the Book of Mormon?

[Witness]

No.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

You did that?

[Witness]

No.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Okay, so isn't it true that you really have no idea what I was referring to when I referenced Nephi in my text message?

[Witness]

I can only go off of what I'm. What I see. I can't tell you what you're thinking or what. What you're trying to relay there. But based on my knowledge and based on talking to people about who is Nephi, that is a story that came up consistently.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

You relayed to the jury that it was in order to kill you. Relayed to the jury.

[Witness]

I said that this. The story was the same story and similar to Adam. To Adam told.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Okay. And you said it earlier that that was an order to kill that. I referenced Nephi. I will be like Nephi, and you will be like Nephi to the jury here today.

[Judge]

Ask a question. That's a statement, not a question.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Do you have knowledge that. That. That my text message that at all?

[Witness]

No.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Are you aware through all of your investigation of this case that my brother was a standup comedian?

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Alex.

[Witness]

I had heard that, yes.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

And that everything is a joke to Alex?

[Witness]

I can't speak for that.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

So when you're interpreting all these text messages and making all these assumptions, half of them could be jokes and you would not know that.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Objection. Speculation.

[Judge]

Sustained.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Were you speculating when you read my text messages?

[Witness]

I think I'm just reading your text messages. I don't think I was drawing any inference from them. I was just simply reading them.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Well, today you were explaining them to the jury. Is that true?

[Witness]

Those were red. There was no explanation as to what it meant.

[Ashley Banfield]

Laurie then questioned Detective Duncan's detective skills and decisions that were made throughout the course of this investigation. Again, good strategy on behalf of Lori.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

So as the case agent and a detective, do you form a suspicion and then stick to it and only investigate the things that lead you to that same conclusion?

[Witness]

No.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

And being a detective, is your job basically to be an investigator and search out facts concerning what happened?

[Witness]

Yes.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

Do you feel like you've done that in this case?

[Witness]

I do.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

So by not testing any of those things, you feel like you've done everything you could possibly do to tell the jury and to tell us what happened that day on July 11, even though you weren't present?

[Witness]

Correct.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

You're confident in that?

[Witness]

I'm confident.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

You have charged me with a crime, is that correct?

[Witness]

I have not.

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

No.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

You have helped them charge me with a crime, is that correct? The state of Arizona.

[Witness]

I conducted an investigation, and I. I sent it forward. Yes.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

And you did not feel it was necessary to test any of these things?

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Objection. As the case agent answered, like, four times.

[Judge]

Sustained.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

What logical reason do you have as an investigator to not investigate all of these things that were available to you for the past five years?

[Detective Cassandra Inclin]

Your Honor, I'm again going to object to Aston answered. If there's a specific thing that's asked.

[Judge]

That's a really very broad question. I'll sustain the objection.

[Lori Vallow Daybell]

That's all I have Your Honor, after.

[Ashley Banfield]

Detective Duncan's testimony, the prosecution said they were out of witnesses and advised the judge that the state rests. But what happened next was a bit confusing. Again, Lori's acting as her own attorney. So, yeah, confusing is sometimes the order of the day in this courtroom. But the judge sent the jury out and asked Lori if she was planning on presenting a case, presenting any evidence, or calling any witnesses. And Lori suggested that she was ready to rest her case. But again, in true confusing fashion, Lori also waffled, saying that she'd like to sleep on it over the weekend and decide by Monday if perhaps she wants to take the stand in her own defense. To which I say, please, God, oh please, oh please, oh please, please, please let Lori take the stand and ask herself questions and answer said questions. I don't know. A girl can always dream. Next stop, closing arguments. As of this recording, those were slated to take place on Monday, April 21, 2025, after Lori had a weekend to sleep on her decision to take the stand or not. But even though Laurie wanted to reserve the right to take the stand on that day, that date is scheduled for closing, so don't ask. It's entirely possible she could throw a wrench into the judge's schedule. Thank you, everybody, so much for listening. I'm Ashlee Banfield, and remember, the truth isn't just serious, it's drop dead serious.